Modified Declassification Expectations Amid Clarity of Purpose from Ratcliffe…

When previously questioned by Catherine Herridge about timing for declassification of documents President Trump noted “when they need them“.  Within the response, who “they” were was never clarified; but the later directive to empower executive branch cabinet member AG Bill Barr provided a more clear reference.

In the legislative branch representatives Mark Meadows, Doug Collins and John Ratcliffe are the primary House members who were clearly helping to organize timing and distribution.  Additionally, AG Barr has appointed a prosecutor in John H Durham to review the overall DOJ, FBI and intelligence community activity.  Obviously Durham along with Inspector General Horowitz would benefit from declassification of documents in both of their reviews.

Earlier today John Ratcliffe outlined his view of U.S. Attorney John Durham as a benefactor of the declassification insofar as he would gain information for his review.  Interestingly Ratcliffe noted Durham was essentially a ‘special counsel’ and could use access to documents as a tool toward a grand jury review [ergo DOJ declassification would be needed].

Along with noting the likelihood of Durham’s intent, Ratcliffe seemed to temper expectations of any upcoming publicly visible declassification.

The possibility of Durham exploiting/using documents declassified by his boss, AG Bill Barr, would suggest some of the material may not be made public; indeed that’s the inference from Ratcliffe earlier today as he outlined to Maria Bartiromo.

If accurate, it is worthwhile considering what *could be* publicly declassified by AG Barr, and yet not run afoul of any investigative value for Durham.   Example: the declassification of the Rosenstein scope memos to Robert Mueller (no longer a reason to be hidden) would not seem to materially affect the investigative intents of Durham.

So considering investigative value, what documents could be purposefully made public that would not impede Durham?

Here’s the list of material possible for declassification. This was the original list as outlined in 2018:

  • All versions of the Carter Page FISA applications (DOJ) (FBI) (ODNI).
  • All of the Bruce Ohr 302’s filled out by the FBI. (FBI) (ODNI)
  • All of Bruce Ohr’s emails (FBI) (DOJ) (CIA) (ODNI). All supportive documents and material provided by Bruce Ohr to the FBI. (FBI)
  • All relevant documents pertaining to the supportive material within the FISA application. (FBI) (DOJ-NSD ) (DoS) (CIA) (DNI) (NSA) (ODNI);
  • All intelligence documents that were presented to the Gang of Eight in 2016 that pertain to the FISA application used against U.S. person Carter Page; including all intelligence documents that may not have been presented to the FISA Court. (CIA) (FBI) (DOJ) (ODNI) (DoS) (NSA)  Presumably this would include the recently revealed State Dept Kavalac email; and the FBI transcripts from wiretaps of George Papadopoulos (also listed in Carter Page FISA). [AKA ‘Bucket Five’]
  • All unredacted text messages and email content between Lisa Page and Peter Strzok on all devices. (FBI) (DOJ) (DOJ-NSD) (ODNI)
  • The originating CIA “EC” or two-page electronic communication from former CIA Director John Brennan to FBI Director James Comey that started Operation Crossfire Hurricane in July 2016. (CIA) (FBI) (ODNI)

Additionally, since the 2018 list was developed, more information has surfaced about underlying material.  This added to the possibility of documents for declassification:

♦ President Trump can prove the July 31st, 2016, Crossfire Hurricane counterintelligence operation originated from a scheme within the intelligence apparatus by exposing the preceding CIA operation that created the originating “Electronic Communication” memo. Declassify that two-page “EC” document that Brennan gave to Comey.  [The trail is found within the Weissmann report and the use of Alexander Downer – SEE HERE]

♦ Release and declassify all of the Comey memos that document the investigative steps taken by the FBI as an outcome of the operation coordinated by CIA Director John Brennan in early 2016.  [The trail was memorialized by James Comey – SEE HERE]

♦ Reveal the November 2015 through April 2016 FISA-702 search query abuse by declassifying the April 2017 court opinion written by FISC Presiding Judge Rosemary Collyer. Show the FBI contractors behind the 85% fraudulent search queries. [Crowdstrike? Fusion-GPS? Nellie Ohr? Daniel Richman?]  This was a weaponized surveillance and domestic political spying operation. [The trail was laid down in specific detail by Judge Collyer – SEE HERE]

♦ Subpoena former DOJ-NSD (National Security Division) head John Carlin, or haul him in front of a grand jury, and get his testimony about why he hid the abuse from the FISA court in October 2016; why the DOJ-NSD rushed the Carter Page application to beat NSA Director Admiral Mike Rogers to the FISA court; and why Carlin quit immediately thereafter.

♦ Prove the Carter Page FISA application (October 2016) was fraudulent and based on deceptions to the FISA Court. Declassify the entire document, and release the transcripts of those who signed the application(s); and/or depose those who have not yet testified. The creation of the Steele Dossier was the cover-up operation. [SEE HERE]

♦ Release all of the Lisa Page and Peter Strzok text messages without redactions. Let sunlight pour in on the actual conversation(s) that were taking place when Crossfire Hurricane (July ’16) and the FISA Application (Oct ’16) were taking place.  The current redactions were made by the people who weaponized the intelligence system for political surveillance and spy operation.  This is why Page and Strzok texts are redacted!

♦ Release all of Bruce Ohr 302’s, FBI notes from interviews and debriefing sessions, and other relevant documents associated with the interviews of Bruce Ohr and his internal communications. Including exculpatory evidence that Bruce Ohr may have shared with FBI Agent Joseph Pientka. [And get a deposition from this Pientka fella] Bruce Ohr is the courier, carrying information from those outside to those on the inside.

♦ Release the August 2nd, 2017, two-page scope memo provided by DAG Rod Rosenstein to special counsel Robert Mueller to advance the fraudulent Trump investigation, and initiate the more purposeful obstruction of justice investigation. Also Release the October 20th, 2017, second scope memo recently discovered.  The Scope Memos are keys to unlocking the underlying spy/surveillance cover-up. [SEE HERE and SEE HERE]

It would appear the scope memos, Kavalec memo, original FISA application and transcript of Papadopoulos conversation with Halper etc. could be released without impeding a grand jury review (hinted by Ratcliffe today).

While CTH would argue that full public declassification of everything would be a better approach; thereby allowing Durham to use any/all evidence therein; I also accept that protecting the “FISA enabled” institutions is not considered in our preferred approach.

Protecting the *legal and national security value* of an appropriately applied “FISA process” seems to be key institutional objective for the principals (Barr, Coats, etc.). As such, there is an institutional tendency to defend process. It’s a tightrope.

If the Barr perspective includes the need to retain legitimate national security value within the processes previously abused, Barr may mitigate what is released.  Again, a tight-rope where ‘We The People’ are expected to trust yet another official.

CTH accepts the possibility of honorable intent within Bill Barr, cautiously.  The ‘trust’ bank account is overdrawn.  Perhaps that’s why very cautious optimism, with frustratingly tempered short-term expectations, is the prudent analytical perspective.

Then again, ‘We The People’ have no more tongue to bite…. A constitutional republic can only accept so much demonstrable corruption before all hell breaks loose.

I hope AG Barr understands this.

BARR: And look, I think if we — we are worried about foreign influence in the campaign? We should be because the heart of our system is the peaceful transfer of power through elections and what gives the government legitimacy is that process. And if foreign elements can come in and affect it, that’s bad for the republic. But by the same token, it’s just as, it’s just as dangerous to the continuation of self-government and our republican system, republic that we not allow government power, law enforcement or intelligence power, to play a role in politics, to intrude into politics, and affect elections.

JAN CRAWFORD: So it’s just as dangerous- So when we talk about foreign interference versus say a government abuse of power, which is more troubling?

WILLIAM BARR: Well they’re both, they’re both troubling.

JAN CRAWFORD: Equally?

WILLIAM BARR: In my mind, they are, sure. I mean, republics have fallen because of Praetorian Guard mentality where government officials get very arrogant, they identify the national interest with their own political preferences and they feel that anyone who has a different opinion, you know, is somehow an enemy of the state. And you know, there is that tendency that they know better and that, you know, they’re there to protect as guardians of the people. That can easily translate into essentially supervening the will of the majority and getting your own way as a government official.

JAN CRAWFORD: And you are concerned that that may have happened in 2016?

WILLIAM BARR: Well, I just think it has to be carefully look at because the use of foreign intelligence capabilities and counterintelligence capabilities against an American political campaign to me is unprecedented and it’s a serious red line that’s been crossed.

JAN CRAWFORD: Did that happen?

WILLIAM BARR: There were counterintelligence activities undertaken against the Trump Campaign. And I’m not saying there was not a basis for it, that it was legitimate, but I want to see what that basis was and make sure it was legitimate.

JAN CRAWFORD: So–

WILLIAM BARR: That’s one of the, you know, one of the key responsibilities of the Attorney General, core responsibilities of the Attorney General is to make sure that government power is not abused and that the right of Americans are not transgressed by abusive government power. That’s the responsibility of the Attorney General.  (Transcript source)

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319 Responses to Modified Declassification Expectations Amid Clarity of Purpose from Ratcliffe…

  1. d says:

    I have an opinion. Barr is a cleanup man. His good friend Mueller cleaned up the (alleged) Russian election interference, now Barr and Durham will clean up the Government election interference. I do have some facts though. Barr was confirmed by the Senate. Clearly the uniparty wasnt too afraid of him. Barr was CIA. Barr was H.W. Bush’s (new world order promoter) AG. Barr is good friend with Mueller. Barr gave Rosenstein one hell of a Ass kissing retirement. Barr is an institutionalist. Under Barrs DOJ multiple prosecutions have been declined. Barr has stated that he doesnt think the small group committed treason, so im assuming he has seen everything if he is willing to make that assumption already. Barr went along with the Mueller report. Barr went along with the line that the DNC was hacked by Russian (crowdstrike conclusions) even though the FBI didnt examine the servers. Doesnt look good!

    Liked by 14 people

    • Perot Conservative says:

      One could also argue that:

      Barr didn’t allow Weismann to expand the probe.
      Barr brought it to s conclusion.
      Barr (and Rosy) found Trump innocent of obstruction.
      He brought on Durham, and investigators.
      Durham a bipartisan, respected pit bull.
      He immediately, publicly, called it spying.
      He said he now had more questions than when he started.
      He said things don’t hang together.
      He gave a very public CBS interview essentially calling out the IC and MSM.

      Liked by 20 people

      • d says:

        I respect that! And that is the optimistic side of it all. And those statements keep me with hope. But I, like many, feel deeply let down so far. But the game isnt over yet so we will see.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Redzone says:

          President Trump is great at winning elections, marketing, and politics! Now that the Mueller probe has cleared, I hope he is giving some behind the scenes instructions on declassification timing and speed of prosecutions to the extent possible. I am fairly certain he doesn’t want any of the guilty folks walking away after what they did to him.

          Liked by 5 people

          • grlangworth says:

            The closer to the 2020 election this all occurs, the more positive an effect it will have on the PDJT 2nd election victory, in my opinion. AG Barr et al will necessarily apply the ‘law of parsimony’ — and what they profess they will therein prevail. Preserve the institutions, nail the crooks.

            Liked by 1 person

            • DJT already has his victory, because he doesn’t have any credible opponents.

              But this is a matter of Law and Justice, not Politics. It isn’t about election victories. It’s about “high crimes and misdemeanors” which (it is alleged) are right now being committed by (presumed innocent) Federal officers, and which (it is alleged) were committed by his (presumed innocent) predecessors. It’s about turning those allegations into bulletproof court cases which will lead to conviction and be sustained on appeal, so that Justice may be served upon people who abused the powers of the Government institutions that they controlled.

              Mr. Barr’s declassification powers mean that Federal Prosecutors can have the information that they need, and can legally show it to Grand Juries (which always meet in secret and whose deliberations are never published, even when the jury meets in your home town). The documents most likely WON’T be made public, and here’s why:

              Plenty of Chicago crime bosses got off the hook by publishing stories far and wide in the local newspapers. Now their lawyers could say that it’s impossible for the man to get a fair trial because an unbiased jury could not be convened. (Only the very worst of them were trucked to far-away cities where the people didn’t subscribe to those newspapers.)

              Although WE know that these people are guilty-as-hell, they are Presumed Innocent. (Except to the extent already covered by Judge Collyer’s ruling, since she is a Federal judge.) We must resist the urge to demand that they be tried in the Court of Public Opinion. “This must never be allowed to happen again.”

              Liked by 1 person

          • MelH says:

            We can probably be certain that the entire Trump Family has drawn up their list of which actors must pay, for SURE, and which must be just fined or fired. Because we have counted so many, it would be a matter of years in court if all who should be charged are ultimately charged.

            Like

        • California Joe says:

          Barr said it wasn’t treason because it’s not!

          Liked by 3 people

          • d says:

            So then he knows everything that took place and had came to that conclusion already? While at the same time saying he doesnt want to come to any prejudge anything and wants to wait for the investigation? How does that make sense?

            Like

            • Julian says:

              Treason is committed in a time of War.

              Please point me to The Congressional Declaration that the United States is at War that is applicable.

              Liked by 2 people

              • d says:

                Just because blood isnt being spilled does not make this a war. These people used Russian disinformation in an attempt to take down an elected president. How is that not treason?

                Like

              • jx says:

                > Treason is committed in a time of War.

                Using the powers of the state to depose a president is an act of war. It’s beyond sedition or some other form of subversion which anyone might do. They used the power of state, which very few can do. And they used that power to attempt an overthrow of the presidency.

                Like

                • d says:

                  18 U.S. Code § 2381. Treason

                  Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them OR adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

                  I emphasized the “or’b
                  Because, it seems that War is not required. But I am not a lawyer.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • You are right it’s not treason, because we are not in an Active War, but it is however, Seditious.
                  § 2384. Seditious conspiracy – If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, —conspire to overthrow—-, put down, or to destroy by force —– the Government of the United States,

                  Liked by 8 people

                • jx says:

                  Thomas⭐️⭐️⭐️,

                  War was waged on the U.S. by U.S. citizens.

                  Like

                • jeff montanye says:

                  how about the events of 2001 with regard to israel and the g.w. bush administration? is that enough violence, enough foreign influence? perhaps we can be thankful that those devils actually killed some people, ignoring the hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions killed in the yinon wars that followed. the truly deplorable can always go for murder convictions later; no statutes of limitations, no problems with defining treason.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Blister Bill says:

                  Exactly. What they were doing is so egregious that there is no higher form of treason. Stabbing at the heart of our country, President and rule of law while in positions of power.

                  Folks, this is nation ending kind of stuff. (Why treason carries such a stiff penalty) The enemy is not just under the wire, they’re in control of the compound.

                  Liked by 2 people

              • lydia00 says:

                Judge Sullivan used the T word with Flynn.

                Liked by 1 person

              • Aeyrie says:

                2001 AUMF. Congress authorized it and it has never been retired. https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/107/sjres23

                Like

              • OldParatrooper says:

                Public Law 107-40, the AUMF for Afghanistan. The Constitution grants Congress the authority to declare war, but doesn’t specify a format.

                Like

          • Invisigoth says:

            The FBI took Russian propaganda meant to attack our democracy to a FISA court and got a warrant to spy on an American citizen and unseat a duly elected president. If that isn’t treason, then what is?

            Obama: “I sought out the Marxists in school.”

            Friends with Ayers and Frank Marshall Davis. Jarrett was a communist. Strzok knew her family in Iran.

            Brennan voted for Gus Hall.

            Comey was an admitted communist.

            A lot of the people at the top had no business being in government, let alone wielding such power. If this gets swept under the rug, last one out hit the lights.

            Liked by 6 people

            • Redzone says:

              You hit the nail on the head!!! That should never have been allowed. The worst part is knowing that somehow, some of them were confirmed by the Senate. There should be a law preventing this from happening. The fact that those people were ever allowed to be put in office shows how far down we gave come. Now, is the time to turn it around! We have 6 years!

              Liked by 1 person

            • PBR says:

              where do you get the information that Comey was an admitted communist?

              Like

            • dayallaxeded says:

              Not just friends. FMD was more probably than not <0's biological father. Sadly, that would make him a NBC, but also a seditious conspirator with Ayers and Jarrett.

              Like

          • You are right it’s not treason, because we are not in an Active War, but it is however, Seditious.
            § 2384. Seditious conspiracy – If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, —conspire to overthrow—-, put down, or to destroy by force —– the Government of the United States,

            Liked by 5 people

            • Blister Bill says:

              The left have been waging war against America for decades now. They don’t need to give aid and comfort to the enemy because THEY ARE THE ENEMY. It’s a two-fer for treason. High treason

              The enormity of this conspiracy is staggering…Hundreds need to go to the gallows, thousands in prison for life

              Liked by 3 people

              • budklatsch says:

                Call it what you will, but the final outcome should be at the end of a rope!

                Like

                • I guess some on here want to call it it TREASON, which by US CONSTITUTION IS DECLARED ON IN WAR…However, the word SEDITION should be the word, BY LEGAL DEFINITION…

                  People before me have given concrete examples of both and we are NOT at war but a Seditious Conspiracy was done to this President…

                  Like

                • jx says:

                  > Eagledriver “DECLARED ON IN WAR”

                  OR by waging war on the US. The US doesn’t have to be in a declared war for a person or group to wage war on the US.

                  Like

            • snellvillebob says:

              Steele admitted he had not visited the Soviet Union for 10 years and under questioning, I think we will find the true creator of the Moscow hotel room part. This has to be a female since no man is going to pay a prostitute to pee on a bed when he can do it himself. One of Trump’s heroes was General Patton who mid-bridge, got out of his jeep and peed in the Rhine.
              So that leaves the UK, Italy, and Australia as the other countries involved and they certainly are not our enemies this year at least.

              Like

              • Rob says:

                “no man is going to pay a prostitute to pee on a bed when he can do it himself.”

                You may want to retract that. I’m sure there are some men who would want a woman to pee while in bed.

                Like

            • This isn’t even remotely accurate. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

              18 U.S. Code CHAPTER 115— TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES

              18 U.S. Code § 2381. Treason
              Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

              18 U.S. Code § 2382. Misprision of treason

              Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States and having knowledge of the commission of any treason against them, conceals and does not, as soon as may be, disclose and make known the same to the President or to some judge of the United States, or to the governor or to some judge or justice of a particular State, is guilty of misprision of treason and shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than seven years, or both.

              18 U.S. Code § 2384. Seditious conspiracy

              If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

              18 U.S. Code § 2385. Advocating overthrow of Government

              Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or

              Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or

              Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof—

              Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

              If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.

              As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

              https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/part-I/chapter-115

              Liked by 1 person

          • Agreed. It is not treason. Also, legally it is not sedition or a seditious conspiracy either the they did not contemplate use of force, an element of sedition. If doj can get past corrupt elements in my opinion a possible charge for spygate participants is a conspiracy to defraud the gov.t under 18 USC 371,

            Like

            • Blister Bill says:

              It’s high treason. There is no higher form of treason. What they did is nation ending kind of stuff.

              They are domestic enemies waging war against a lawfully elected President–Against the Constitution and America herself. There are many types of warfare and the left has employed them all save brute force(yet). Because even our propaganda pravda press would have a hard time spinning that one.

              America is taking her last breaths because the patriots in this country have not stopped the left’s unceasing war against her.

              Liked by 1 person

          • Bluto Ruffian says:

            Barr MUST weigh the legal definitions of all the big words being thrown out there and the probable success of bullet-proof convictions that we all want to see so badly.

            This may help determine where he can go: https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/05/when_barack_obama_declared_war_on_donald_trump.html

            Aim carefully first, then shoot (30MM chain gun helps too…).

            Thank you Sundance for allowing Treepers to post links on this blog! We acknowledge the requirements of this responsibility.

            Liked by 3 people

          • Blister Bill says:

            The Obama administration was/is a treason regime. The fakestream media with the help of idiot Obola voters installed an enemy combatant in the oval office for 8 long years. Marxists, maoists, and muslims in control of the executive branch.

            We didn’t survive it.

            Like

          • Agreed…because Barr made sure to say legally it was not treason. However, he did not say it was not crime…I will be very interested to know what crimes they will be charged with.

            Like

        • Dutchman says:

          d,
          I commend the respectful nature of your comments, and hope all take note, kudos.
          Someone presents an alternatve view, and no “Jane, you ignorant slut!”
          (Sat. Nite live, yes but you all know what I mean.) Civility is nice, thank you.
          On Barr’s traitor comment, I feel a # of posters have pointed out that he specified as a LEGAL matter, it
          wasn’t treason, and he is right. In fact, some of us commenters said that, even before he was appointed.
          Would have been interesting to see how he had answered, if she had said SEDITION.
          Anyway, I don’t buy your theory as more than a theory, we need to see how things play out.
          The declination decision is troubling, but again need to see how it plays out.
          If he is called into a grand jury with bull durham, its possible he’ll be,WISHING all he had were charges of leaking and lieing.
          Again, too soon to call it, either way, IMHO.

          To allow emotion to effect our judgement, whether the desire for something to be true (trust the plan), or “I’ll never fall in love again” desire to deny ourselves hope, so we won’t get burned, is the same error, seems to me; allowing emotions to effect judgement. Not saying I don’t, sometimes. Heck, I fell for “trust the plan”, for awhile, myself.
          Cautious optimism, based on facts while recognising we don’t know what we don’t know. Anyway kudos on the,…attitude. A treepers approach.

          Liked by 2 people

        • John-Y128 says:

          I agree, AG Barr is motivated by saving the reputation of the institution(s), I don’t think they’ll be any orange jumpsuits over the presidential coup attempt, nobody is going to blow-up our ‘intelligence’ community or England’s either, especially for a republican!

          Liked by 1 person

          • cantcforest says:

            The reputations of the institutions has been destroyed for me. I’m hoping that some of the agencies will be leveled, cleared, the fields resown entirely. No, I don’t have a plan for that, but I daresay President Trump can come up with one.
            I once heard a management consultant say that reorganization of existing staff was akin to moving the contents of a graveyard. IMHO, truth.

            Liked by 3 people

            • Ilcon says:

              Yep.

              Like

            • Blister Bill says:

              I agree. The swamp needs to be drained, permanently. 90% of what our irreparably corrupt stasi state does is unconstitutional. And it’s chocked full of radical lefties(Hillary voters)

              The ONLY 2 things that had to be done years ago(to save America) was #BUILD THE GD WALL and #DRAIN THE GD SWAMP!!

              It’s basic triage. All the rest of the crap is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic.

              Like

            • OldParatrooper says:

              AG Barr can restore the reputations of the CIA, FBI and DOJ by putting the malefactors in prison. Using the government’s CI powers to investigate the opposition party is outrageous. And a Mueller Report style obfuscation of the actions and motives of the malefactors wont suffice. We need indictments, trials, and hopefully, convictions.

              Like

          • Jederman says:

            “…Barr is motivated by saving the reputation of the institution(s)”

            Then he’s on a fools errand. They no longer have reputations to protect.

            Perhaps Barr can RE-HABILITATE or help REPAIR or FORCE them to correct their problems, but attempting to sweep this under the rug using the “intent” escape clause or good people made mistakes… yada, yada won’t fly.

            This is a BIG DEAL. Nobody has gone here before in our history. It must be exposed and dealt with appropriately. Good lord, comey is still in attack mode. Sweeping this under the rug will only solidify to those not yet sufficiently cynical that, hell yes, there is a ds and they can’t be touched. The “institutions” need a correction not a coverup.

            They’ll survive if they accept responsibility. Otherwise, they’ll never be respected and will merely be tolerated because the citizens don’t have the ability to do anything about it. We’ll have to (be forced to) live with the corruption. We won’t like it or support it. The ds responds with additional pressure and force. Cycle continues.

            Like

          • dayallaxeded says:

            The only way to save or restore the reputations of institutions like FIB, CYA, DOinJ, IdiotsRUS, House, and Senate is to get rid of a bunch of bad apples, so the barrels can be refilled with fresh, wholesome ones.

            Like

      • OhNoYouDont says:

        Three more:

        Barr stated Trump collusion with Russia was bogus.
        Barr (and Rosenstein) determined Muellar Report on obstruction did not follow DOJ rules.
        Barr received unprecedented declassification edict over numerous government departments.

        Liked by 1 person

      • PVCDroid says:

        Listening to Barr say it wasn’t treason was interesting because it sounded to me like he was indicating that isn’t the correct definition for what was done. That has been brought up before by others and wartime requirements for treason to be in the mix. I may be overly optimistic but think he was being careful. He’s having to watch what he says down to the syllable because they are out to twist what he says and he knows it.

        Liked by 7 people

        • Athena the Warrior says:

          I’ve always called this a Seditious Coup because Treason is a very high bar to meet. Sedition on the other hand 18 U.S. Code Section 2384 is easier to be met and exactly what has been going on.

          Liked by 2 people

          • d says:

            Makes sense. I am not too sure if War is REQUIRED for treason to happen or if treason can be committed even without war happening.

            “Treason against the United States shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”.

            The “or” seems to implicate that war isn’t a requirement, in my opinion.

            Curious if the new SCOTUS justices were asked their opinions on this.

            Like

          • You are right it’s not treason, because we are not in an Active War, but it is however, Seditious.
            § 2384. Seditious conspiracy – If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, —conspire to overthrow—-, put down, or to destroy by force —– the Government of the United States,

            Like

            • Dutchman says:

              And there we get into those words “by force”; they doesn’t walk into the oval office with guns.
              Sedition laws should be changed to eliminate those,two words, by any means as,replacement.
              And sentence should be, like treason, hanging.
              Problem is,…that would literally take an act of Congress!
              And,since leadership of Congress are some of the,Seditious conspirators, not likely to happen.

              Liked by 1 person

            • Justin Green says:

              Agree it isn’t treason. The people conducting the coup weren’t necessarily performing the coup on behalf of anyone other than themselves, not a foreign power.

              The word “force” is just for the “…or destroy by force” list item…
              1) conspire to overthrow,
              2) put down, or
              3) or to destroy by force..

              They’d be guilty of number 1.

              Like

        • Blister Bill says:

          The left are at war with America
          And these were scumbags in positions of power carrying out multiple coup attempts

          It’s called high treason. This is not even a hard intellectual exercise. Frankly, It’s boring. I want to see hangings on the national mall

          Liked by 1 person

        • John-Y128 says:

          Treason, wouldn’t that depend what Brennan and Comey cooked up with Steele and Britain’s and/or Australia’s intelligence service(s)? And what about our State Department their actions and contacts overseas?

          Like

      • Actually, Durham was activated a lot sooner than we think. refer to transcripts released by Collins. I forget the name of the person being interviewed, but he stated that he had been questioned by Durham. Jordan quickly pounced on that piece of news. That means Durham was active BEFORE October. So who put him in place? It wasn’t Barr, as Barr was not DOJ at that time.

        Like

      • Dee Paul Deje says:

        Did they commit treason? “Not as a legal matter.” I take this to mean “technically, no, but….”, or “legally, no, but…….”

        Like

    • Gucci says:

      @d-you will find that your opinion of AG Barr is not popular here. But I agree with you. No one gets indicted. AG Barr’s job is to soft-land this puppy and keep the “institutions” intact. Period.

      This will inevitably come down to “intent” and we will get the standard “Some good people did some bad things, but had good intentions in doing so.”

      Besides,no one gets to a position of “power” in DC without having garnered some “chips” to play. Those “chip holders” will threaten to play their chips if need be. The origin of those ships is likely much worse than “Spygate”. The chip parlaying has/is being played out in different office’s as we speak. The players may be different than in this clip, but the message is the same:

      Someone has likely already let Mr. Durham know that there are multiple chips waiting to be played with his name on them…and that he should proceed with that in mind.

      Liked by 3 people

      • d says:

        Unfortunately, I agree with your assessment. I was once very optimistic that POTUS had this all under control. But it is clear to me that he does not want anything to do with the DOJ and cleaning house, either that or he has no clue about the magnitude of corruption that exists in the D.C. DOJ. How about all those FBI that the OIG found took bribes and leaked? Why hasn’t POTUS fired them all. Why hasn’t he cleaned house? It is his JOB to clean out the corruption, and as far as I am concerned, he is failing in that aspect (I love everything else he is doing, but this is my one criticism). Of course there is still the small hope that all the ducks are being lined up first, but my optimism has left long ago.

        Like

        • Redzone says:

          There is a distinct possibility your position is correct. But, Trump has been cornered until release of the Mueller Report due to potential Obstruction charges. I would be very surprised if he did not want to clean up all the institutional corruption, but I think McConnell has his hands tied.

          I think McConnell could get the votes to Impeach, if he was given those instructions. All he needs is a little FISA data on a handful of corrupt Republican Senators. If PT started really rocking the boat any harder, he might cross that line.

          On the other hand, if he can win 2020 and get a super clear unimpeachable majority in both the House and Senate, we will have answers to all our questions.

          Like

          • John-Y128 says:

            The price for PT winning a 2nd term will be ‘letting it go’, the establishment will let him use it for campaigning like he used ‘lock her up’ and ‘who’s paying for the wall’, etc. But then will come the ‘disappointment of the loyalists’, there be no Mel Gibson Patriot ending here.

            Like

            • Kaco says:

              POTUS did not come up with “Lock her up”, that was created by his supporters, nor did he lead those chants. Also, he said at some point HOW Mexico was going to be paying for the wall, he didn’t say they’d write a check.

              Like

            • Redzone says:

              John, I certainly can see both outcomes as a possibility. But, respectfully, I hope you’re a little off the mark.

              Like

      • gary says:

        durham wasn’t in d.c. not part of the beltway. and the only reason we have gotten this far is because of the Good Lord. He is taking these people out.

        Liked by 3 people

      • Query says:

        Correct.
        You will get a plea or two and some stern words about process that needs to be “improved”.
        Comey and McCabe are too easy to prosecute today, so maybe some lesser mea culpa charges for them and a plea will satisfy the voting sheep….I don’t exclude us….. Naughty boys, but hearts in the right place, stuff.

        In 5 years they will own the USA again, and they know it.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Blister Bill says:

      No, it doesn’t look good.
      Mueller and rotten rod should’ve been arrested a day after Barr was sworn in. But Barr validated the mueller coup by giving his ‘impeachment report’ to congress instead.

      We’re farked unless PDJT appoints a very large special counsel or convenes military tribunals

      Liked by 1 person

      • d says:

        Yup. Barr legitimized it all. The entire Russian lie.

        Liked by 1 person

        • DMSR says:

          The left is frothing at the mouth over Barr & claim he is overstepping his bounds by miles in order to help Trump. Even most Trump supporters view Barr as being proactive & assertive (in a good way, but also ruffling plenty of feathers) so far. Only a small % of hardcore Trump supporters would NOT be perplexed to hear this sort of negative opinion about Barr being too restrained and/or anti-Trump.

          This may be worth considering when it seems like Barr isn’t doing enough or moving fast enough or didn’t speak out enough… the vast majority of the country thinks he’s pressing the matter well beyond the standard govt approach, for better or worse. You think he legitimized the Russia lie, but all the liars are furious at how he handled it. The other side is going nuts right now because they think he did the opposite.

          I’m not dismissing your concerns, but it does sound to me like you might be in a bit of a news bubble. Even mainstream news that leans slightly to the right, such as Fox’s straight news lineup, mostly views Barr as aggressively pro-Trump. You’re probably right, more-or-less, about what ultimately needs to be done, but your POV seems a bit like you’re standing to the right of the entire spectrum of mainstream opinion today, yet thinking you’re in the center and all the people out on the very edge of the right side (YOUR side) who would likely fall off if they pushed much harder, must have betrayed you and defected to the left!

          The public has to gradually be brought deeper into the know, “paced” you could say, so they will be able to eventually accept the totality of the coup attempt. I get that it’s frustrating, but it’s necessary. You seem to think Barr could (and should) just announce exactly what happened and prosecute tons of well-known Dems asap. Yet, he’s already so hated they’re plotting ways to get rid of him. What you’re seeing from Barr IS pushing the envelope. That’s not to say I know how much he’ll ultimately insist on justice vs. trying to protect institutions. That’s still an unanswered question. But he’s doing what he can at this time & even really pushing it in most ways.

          Liked by 2 people

          • John-Y128 says:

            “…but all the liars are furious at how he handled it. The other side is going nuts right now because they think he did the opposite.”

            AG Barr is protecting the institutions and preventing a Civil War 2.0 by the nation’s armed patriots, not worrying about the lame-stream media and the left.

            I disagree with ‘mainstream news that leans slightly to the right’, FNC is hard at work with leftist democrat candidates ‘town halls’, you know ‘fair & balanced’.

            Liked by 1 person

        • Dutchman says:

          d,
          Now THERE you hit me on a tender spot. My responce is, like your earlier post, theoretical.
          A) he could not come out openly disputing the russia hacked hillaries emails, and gave em to wikileaks, until he has the evidence.
          He would be directly refuting “the established narrative”, would have to prove it in the court of public opinion. As A.G. he is more concerned about Court.
          B) he truly doesn’t know, yet that Russia didn’t, which doesn’t mean he won’t get confirmation at some point.

          I put it as “cleaner” or “housecleaner”, can’t be both. I, trying to be objective and unemotional, don’t feel we have enough to know, one way or other, absolutely.

          And I don’t see any emperative to decide right now, as opposed tobkeeping an open mind. Time will definetly tell.

          Liked by 1 person

        • John-Y128 says:

          “Yup. Barr legitimized it all. The entire Russian lie.”
          Thank godd we have the Russians and Chinese to blame our political deceptions on, it’s palatable for the voters.

          Like

      • B Woodward says:

        AG Barr validated the mueller report by giving it to Congress is one way to look at it.

        Another way to look at it is that Barr came into office and had to decide how to deal with the mueller crap that rosenstein started. Barr got mueller to end his investigation prior to the 2020 election. He gave Congress a copy of mueller’s report, but that doesn’t mean that the whole mueller house of cards won’t be toppled by the AG at a later date.

        Like

        • Blister Bill says:

          It’s the only way to look at it. If we have to treat these high treason coup co-conspirators with kid gloves because of the implications on a election or because of the enormity of the conspiracy or because of what’s left of people’s trust in govt, then it’s all over anyways.

          There is no way to sell this to the real American people but Barr and the corrupt state are going to give it a try. The damage is done.

          Like

    • Bill Thomas says:

      If Barr limits his review to the 2016 election snooping by the Obama administration and fails to fully disclose the extent of the unlawful unmasking of U.S. citizens by prior administrations (including Bush) in violation of the 4th Amendment, then we’ll know that Barr is a cover-up guy and not a cleanup guy.

      Like

    • Vivienne Blevins says:

      I think it should have been pretty obvious that this farce ended almost immediately after he started work. Weisman was gone too and he probably was the worst of the worst. I still have faith in Barr. He may say kind things about people but that is to be expected. Let us concentrate on what he gets done and so far, I think he is doing well.

      Like

    • Redzone says:

      Sundance posted the question below earlier in this thread. I wanted to repost because I would like to read the answers of the highly intelligent folks that are here. Any attorney input would also be great. (One comment I have read is concern about tainting a potential jury pool.)
      ————————-
      sundance on June 2, 2019 at 10:43 pm
      Give an example (in this investigative undertaking) of one factual prosecutorial benefit to hiding declassification?…. AND/OR name one harm, under same framework, which would happen as a result of public declassification?….

      — TheLastRefuge (@TheLastRefuge2) June 3, 2019

      Liked by 1 person

      • OlderAndWiser says:

        Not an attorney here. But I think I can offer an example – let’s say that someone in the FBI recorded (via text/email/notes…) some conversation with another person (whether in the FBI/CIA/DOJ…) and that record of the conversation is a piece of key evidence that the second person doesn’t know exists. During a grand jury examination, the second person may very well concoct a lie to justify some actions, and the lie is easily disproven by that record. But if the second person knew of the record, s/he may well concoct a different lie that is in conformity with that record.
        You never want to show all your cards before a grand jury proceeding.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Attorney says:

      Cannot much disagree. If so, he is the face of conniving, dishonorable, unadulterated evil. But there is still a tad bit of hope.

      Like

    • Jackson says:

      Legally speaking: Treason is the only crime defined in the Constitution in detail. If you take someone like Brennan, who seems to be the center of things: he didn’t “levy war against the USA” and so far as anyone has said he wasn’t “adhereing to their enemies, giving them aide and comfort”. Benedict Arnold was working for the British while an American officer. That’s treason. The stuff Brennan did is horrible, but it doesn’t really fit the definition, in my opinion.

      SECTION 3

      Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

      The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

      Like

      • OlderAndWiser says:

        So here’s a “novel” legal theory:
        The US is currently in a trade war against China, which not only has been identified as a critical economic and military adversary by our “intelligence” agencies, but has been identified as an economic enemy in our trade war – by any common definition of the terms.
        So, wouldn’t anyone giving aid or comfort to the enemy (China) not be guilty of treason?

        Please remember, economic strength is military strength. The two are absolutely allied. So, stretching the meaning of the word war to include economic war is not that outlandish. In fact, it is much less outlandish than some of the legal theories that the left has espoused.

        Like

  2. LandofLiberty says:

    Keep the pressure up. We must keep the pressure up. Is Barr going to be a Republican or an AG.
    A lot of this he said is lawyer talk/a Republican doing nothing and lets us down.
    It’s a lot like a dog with a whole lot of bark and no bite. A republican.
    If these were democrats you would probably have had 10/15 indictments already.

    Like

    • Daniel says:

      The left never went after the “all bark, no bite” Republicans. They were tolerated and they went unchallenged. On the other hand, they went to unprecedented lengths to stop Cavanaugh.

      On the other hand, by comparison, Barr was confirmed pretty easily… but Trump had leverage and persuasion on this side — he had an acting AG which they absolutely hated so they had the choice of a lesser of two executioners. And even now they are seeking to impeach Barr for refusing to break the law.

      But all that said I think there’s more than enough clues that the left genuinely fears Barr just as they genuinely fear Cavanaugh. When you see the reaction of the other side, it becomes a bit more easy to know what we’re dealing with. And I somehow doubt they are merely pretending to hate Barr.

      Liked by 2 people

      • John-Y128 says:

        Kavanaugh’s attack was about protecting from loss, women’s ‘health care’ rights.

        Like

      • Bill says:

        “Barr was confirmed pretty easily…” only because of the totally outrageous Blaise Ford fiasco by the Dems made them afraid to try something nefarious again so soon.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Attorney says:

      More than that!

      Like

  3. Pale rider says:

    You had one job to do!
    Department Of JUSTICE.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Carrie says:

    Declassification for certain eyes only cannot lead to accountability. Theoretically, it could aid in prosecuting certain cases, but we already know of several outrageous ones that were already dropped. Without public declassification the Pelosi’s and Schiff’s and Harris’s will continue to lie about all of the facts. And the MSM will also be able to duck full accountability and will never need to put their tail between their legs and write multiple stories about all of the high profile convictions and how they were part of the tainted system and not above printing lies and taking bribes.
    It’s hard to care about the “FISA Process ” when most of us want it disbanded because it is utterly broken and beholden to no one.

    Liked by 3 people

    • d says:

      Excellent post. Earlier I asked the question, “how can public declassification impede Durham”, someone replied that it could taint the jury poor and be used as a defense. In my opinion the biggest taint to the jury pool is Pelosi and the Dems being able to spin all this and lie to everyone, while the facts are hidden!

      Liked by 2 people

      • Maquis says:

        They’d lie more effectively if the documents were public.

        Liked by 1 person

        • d says:

          “They” already know what is in the documents

          Liked by 2 people

          • Maquis says:

            They can’t openly say a peep about them while they are classified and in Grand Jury use. They don’t know which documents, they don’t know all the documents that exist. They can lie about what they know, but to lie effectively for more than simply short term chum effect they have to communicate with those inside involved with the declassifications to know what was declassed and what was redacted and such comms are likely being monitored under FISA itself.

            Like

      • Daniel says:

        Can there be any hope to restore the rule of law and respect for law enforcement without a methodological and procedural approach and practice? While I would love for the public’s interests in a speedy trial were in the constitution, it’s not. And we just have to know and accept that a REAL prosecution takes time and process. It also required NOT tipping your hand or saying things which indicates a “biased prosecutor” may have acted out of hate or politics. After all, the first charge the left made against Barr was that he was a Trump stooge and not the A.G. of the United States. They jumped to that conclusion before Barr even said much in public. This has very effectively forced Barr to proceed with every bit of diligence he can muster. There can be zero doubt about him and the appearance of anything wrong must be avoided.

        I know that’s asking a LOT from us as we’ve dealt with this for a very, very long time already. We have no say in the matter. We have to wait. But even Sundance is now saying things he was previously unwilling to utter.

        Then again, ‘We The People’ have no more tongue to bite…. A constitutional republic can only accept so much demonstrable corruption before all hell breaks loose.

        Like

        • John-Y128 says:

          “I know that’s asking a LOT from us as we’ve dealt with this for a very, very long time already. We have no say in the matter.”

          How un-American that we had to deal with a Coup, disguised as election collusion hoax and that we have no say in the matter, just more patience required, we need some hell to break loose.

          Liked by 1 person

  5. LandofLiberty says:

    This is like a roller coaster ride for us. One day we get some meat the next day we’re kicked back in the dog house.
    Just listen to all these players who were saying there will be indictments. Paraded in front of us on Fox News. There will be people going to jail. bla bla bla
    Now suddenly they are just whinning. Not so sure anymore. This just happened in the last week.
    All these republicans run around the tree barking.
    How many times has Sundance gave the information he wants to see declassified. He hasn’t backed off. When Hannity backs off you might as well pack it up and find another line of work or an island to go live on. For all the first timers make sure you listen to all those Republican barking dogs and know who they are. They are the same ones who will be there the next time doing the same thing and acting the same way. Then backing down again at the end.
    You want to know why Republicans are prosecuted and Democrats are not. Its because the Republicans have no backbone to prosecute. That is to enforce the law. They talk and talk the talk the talk but get weak in the knees when it comes to walking the walk

    Liked by 5 people

    • Gucci says:

      @LandofLiberty-I see by your comment you are realistic. No one is going to jail. It’s a hackneyed quote,for sure, but like G Carlin said:

      “It’s a big club and you ain’t in it”

      Liked by 1 person

    • No. Republicans don’t lack backbone, they constantly screw over their alleged constituents while smiling/laughing and lying right to our faces.

      “It’s the old Potomac two-step” of UNIPARTY.

      And if that’s what we get, then it’s either something WE do something about or we are literally truly finished as a nation, let alone a REPUBLIC.

      What happened to President Trump happens to us 24/7/365. Why no one mentions that over and over and over I don’t know, but I damn sure will.

      Liked by 1 person

      • fightthepols says:

        “Republicans don’t lack backbone, they constantly screw over their alleged constituents while smiling/laughing and lying right to our faces.”
        You are so right! PLEASE everyone stop saying they lack backbone. They are getting money/power to screw their constituents. They are fraudulent in their promises to us. We have to fight back and primary these people. A lot of the problem is the individual state GOP organizations who are completely establishmentGOP/uniparty driven. We have to get better state and national GOP organizations too. North Carolina is a perfect example of this problem with Robin Hayes NCGOP head, being recently indicted. Delegates voted him in 2 years ago because they were told he was the only person who could raise money!

        Like

      • Attorney says:

        Indeed….it is not so much fear as sheer corruption.

        Like

    • Deacon says:

      Most of the Repubicans are afraid that the DIRT, the Kenyan scraped up from illegal 702 About queries on them, will be exposed by the TURD Dumocrats! EXTORTION GOES ON AND ON when nobody has the guts to hang the EXTORTER’s!

      Like

  6. Carson Napier says:

    Spying on people, entrapping people, framing people, lying to judges, and being above the law themselves have become “normalized” in the FBI, DOJ and CIA.

    The normalizing of such things in a society, or subset of society, is called “The Banality of Evil”.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Jederman says:

      Indeed it is and that is an under reported aspect of this.

      The casual abuse of taxpayer funded fed power to abuse hundreds innocent taxpayers (spying/unmasking). The use of the crudest legal leverage to crush even peripheral players in this drama and force capitulation in court. Throw away indictments of foreign bit players who will never show up to fight in court. All for ideology.

      The states response for far has been “protecting the institutions.”

      Like

  7. Concerning the FISA court. It should have it’s wings clipped. Here are a couple of suggestions.
    a) It can be used to investigate foreigners.
    b) It can be used to investigate naturalized citizens.
    c) It can be used to investigate citizens who have renounced their citizenship.
    d) There needs to be verified facts that are not derived from news articles and such.
    e) ANY ATTEMPT to commit a fraud upon the court is to be prosecuted with a mandatory 5 year prison sentence for those found guilty.
    f) Any failure to prosecute those attempting a fraud upon the court shall themselves be prosecuted for conspiracy with a mandatory 10 year prison sentence for those found guilty.
    g) Except for naturalized citizens and those renouncing their US citizenship, under no circumstances shall a FISA process be used.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. TKA says:

    This…..

    “CTH accepts the possibility of honorable intent within Bill Barr, cautiously. The ‘trust’ bank account is overdrawn. Perhaps that’s why very cautious optimism, with frustratingly tempered short-term expectations, is the prudent analytical perspective.

    Then again, ‘We The People’ have no more tongue to bite…. A constitutional republic can only accept so much demonstrable corruption before all hell breaks loose.

    I hope AG Barr understands this.”

    Liked by 1 person

    • SGH says:

      YES!!!
      The statements I appreciate most! Thank you, Sundance. People are growing impatient and more annoyed. I don’t quite get the logic simply because I am not familiar with all of the processes, so willing to “see what happens.” In the meantime, I just learn from you, carry-on, and PRAY!
      Thank you!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Gucci says:

      <<<<>>>

      I know it makes folks FEEL emboldened to say stuff like that-but it’s fantasy. All hell will not break loose no matter what happens. The DS knows this and that’s why they continue to do as they damn well please.

      Like

      • Maquis says:

        Do you feel better having said that?

        Like

        • oldumb says:

          Seems like a rational statement. When was the last time all hell broke loose. Is that before or after work?

          Like

          • Seems more like a statement by the already defeated to me.

            Liked by 1 person

            • oldumb says:

              reality doesn’t mean anything of the manner. Look at history and come to another conclusion.

              Liked by 1 person

              • At some point, repeating history must end. Where do We The People draw the line?

                Are we so comfortable with the weight of our chains that we can simply continue to bear them?

                Or, are we just TOO AFRAID of the behemoth we have allowed to function AGAINST US as the FERAL GOVERNMENT to do anything about, well, anything?

                Liked by 1 person

                • oldumb says:

                  I believe those word 100%, but reality says we are comfortable in our chains. I hope we change and make changes, but it will take violence.

                  Like

            • Maquis says:

              Now your statement is rational, because it acknowledges your subjectivity, while the statement I responded to claimed objective knowledge of all others’ emotional state with no cognizance of his own subjectivity in making that assessment. Not to mention his assumed perceptiveness in intetpreting the future actions of said individuals.

              Frankly, it’s profoundly rude and insulting to insist that one so clearly sees into others’ souls while claiming those souls cannot recognize their own state of affairs. That is not Treeper behavior, it’s passive-aggressive flame-war territory and it is exactly that I was responding to when I queried his own feelings about his statement, without assigning them for him as he did others.

              Like

      • mr.piddles says:

        “All hell will not break loose no matter what happens.”

        That’s not true. See Venezuela. Iran. France. Many examples… and those are relatively “minor incidents”. At their core, humans desire freedom. Nobody LIKES being controlled, enslaved, manipulated…. taxed without representation, subject to unreasonable search and seizure… that sorta thing.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Julian says:

      Labor Day in September.

      Tick Tock Barr.

      Tick Tock.

      Like

    • powderdayrules says:

      “Americans are estimated to own 300 million firearms and a trillion rounds of ammunition” I heard on the radio. I’d bet its waay more than a trillion.

      Like

  9. pucecatt says:

    One of the reasons not to declassify was because of the Mueller investigation right ? Well that makes no sense considering most of the info that needs declassification goes back to the origins of how this investigation started and we have been told over and over that mueller did not look at that at all ..so whoever gave that excuse was buying time for the criminals to get there stories straight and destroy evidence..😡😡

    Liked by 1 person

    • mr.piddles says:

      The Weissman/Mueller Operation was both a Political Frame Job and a Corruption Coverup all rolled into one. So… declassification AT THAT TIME would have been within that manufactured context, not necessarily because doing so would have IMPEDED a “legit” investigation (which was fraudulent from Day One, as we all know).

      Liked by 1 person

  10. mtk says:

    Earlier today John Ratcliffe outlined his view of U.S. Attorney John Durham as a benefactor of the declassification insofar as he would gain information for his review. Interestingly Ratcliffe noted Durham was essentially a ‘special counsel’ and could use access to documents as a tool toward a grand jury review [ergo DOJ declassification would be needed].

    ——————————-

    Let me see if get this, the President’s declassification order, is mainly for internal consumption, even though its been billed as a move to declassify to the general public.

    i.e. the ability of to see and use the various classified materials internal to AG Barr’s ‘Getting to the bottom” review.

    So basically, “What Ratcliffe is stating is the classified status on these materials has been from the get go, a form of obstruction and that the declassification order allows for the natural progression of Lady Justice to be no longer blind.
    I AM NOT HOLDING MY BREATH

    I seen this play from the swamp many times before.
    For the in between line readers… No I am questioning honorable intents of Ratcliffe and etc nor our Lion.

    I am questioning, the wisdom of kicking the can down the road.

    I am questioning the narratives of both sides of the equation, specifically in IMHO, its the same coin being flipped.
    What!!!
    Can it be honestly argued with a straight face that to argue three plus decades of swampian BS has suddenly grown new spots and is going to come clean.

    Sundance, is right…
    it’s the “BigClub” and we are but pawns.

    Those that forget history, are NOT doomed to repeat it…
    they are doomed to be exploited by those that DON’T.

    I will throw this out there…
    The 2018 election on the heels of naked and overt an character assassination attempt, says what ‘About kicking the can down the road?”

    Yes, a sad and pathetic reflection on Consituitional Republician Democracy. But is precisely what the antithesis parties to Constiuitional Order where looking for, ” A Confirmational bias” that corruption can go mainstream. A bid to drop the pretension.

    So is the ‘Kick the can down the road’ has major repercussions that only ‘little dutch boys’ can see?

    So play it out political wonks, to your hearts content.

    “Ostriches only bury their heads to hide from themselves.”

    Then again, that observation is only true, “If political ostriches know they are part of deception, and are faced with the complicity revelation , and choose to look away. Then self deception becomes the the call word of the day.

    It has become my veiw that the counter intelligence target is NOT PDJT but the values that have an expectation of ‘Rule of Law” coming to face with the prospect that is not the case. Those of us that will never submit to government over reach, must be demonized.
    Since we won’t accept the program, we must be identified and…

    And…
    And…

    Note, I will never, ever betray basic human values, even if it means loading myself into an xxxx.
    Just saying the truth is out there, sad as it is.

    Like

    • mr.piddles says:

      “i.e. the ability of to see and use the various classified materials internal to AG Barr’s ‘Getting to the bottom” review.”

      Keep in mind: Bar himself REQUESTED the declass/degrade authority from The President.

      So the order was for Barr’s purposes first and foremost. Whether anything comes out of that whole thing for public consumption depends on how and over what timeline Barr’s “review” will play out.

      At the end of it all, I suspect quite a bit will be declassified in the interest of full transparency. Much in the way Barr exposed the Wiessman/Mueller Report to the public. Of course, there will be quite a bit that will never see the sunlight of day.

      Liked by 2 people

  11. Another Scott says:

    Barr sure is better than Sessions even if f he does disappoint on declassification…

    Like

  12. Maquis says:

    So declassification seems intended very possibly to support investigation and prosecution, yet that wasn’t spelled out precisely from the get-go… So what if that ambiguity was strategy?

    Let America see who reverses themselves and screams the loudest about keeping secrets? Might it prompt conspirators to make moves to communicate, conceal, obfusticate? Conspirators with, perhaps, FISA warrants on their heinies? Inquiring minds want to know, but are willing to watch and pray…

    Liked by 4 people

  13. swamph8er says:

    I expect 2 different declassification timelines. One is for the DOJ and the other is for Trump’s reelection campaign.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. reivers42 says:

    I agree! Barr’s an honest man, his actions/words gives me hope! I really feel Rosenstein(Trump nominated him) is a good guy or Barr would’ve got rid of him. He doesn’t play games. Trump knew before he took office he was spied on. I’m certain Trump had a well thought out plan in place on day he took office. Why wouldn’t he? I’ve always thought there’s a top secret(Legal) counter Op on the real Colluder s (McCabe, Brennan Clapper etc etc) In May 2017 Trump had Time magazine show the remodel (tear walls down to studs) of WH dining room & announced he found “GOLD” in the walls I always knew ! 🤣 Greatest Show on Earth! 🇺🇸

    Liked by 1 person

  15. dpc32 says:

    It doesn’t seem logical that Barr would so directly confront the left with his repeated verbal jabs of “spying” and continuing narrative of what appears to be very improper behavior with explanations that “don’t hang together.” He’s enumerating crimes such as abuse of power and essentially building a case in the press for US consumption. Him stating a specific crime and saying, “I’m not saying it occurred but we have to look at it” can hardly be comforting to the perpetrators (who are responding in kind in the press, as Comey has.) So If he’s not serious or just a cleanup guy it seems he’s creating way too much expectation in us all.

    Like

  16. Conservative_302 says:

    Waiting is hard, but I am hopeful. To me, Barr has:
    1. Said as little as possible, but enough to make the plotters worry. The red line, line, was great.
    2. Gives them rope to let them hang themselves, example, Mueller presser on Wednesday.
    3. Hired Durham, if he wasn’t serious, he would have hired another Huber.
    4. Asked and got power to declassify.
    After all the kicking and screaming from the left, I am enjoying watching a pro like Barr play the game as a professional. He keeps his cards close to his chest. Has not going to come to the podium with accusations he can’t prove.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Aeyrie says:

      Umm… I’m kinda enjoying watching our VSGDJT and the Big Barr make the RATS squeal and squirm and race around looking for hidey holes to crawl into and cracks to escape through. Sorry, it’s a cat thing. My two are teaching me bad habits. Bad kitty… 😉

      Like

  17. wcmcgirt says:

    Keep this in mind as we rant and rave about nothing being done: The Deep State has vowed to destroy Donald Trump, his family and associates, so that no one like him will ever try something like this again. President Trump is in an existential fight, and there can be only one winner. Should he lose (a distinct possibility given what’s arrayed against him), he, his wife, his children and his grandchildren will be reduced to poverty. Some of them will be jailed. As an example to anyone in the future who might try to do what Trump did.

    All of us wish to see justice done. Many of us have a desire for revenge. But in addition to making America great again, President Trump wishes for his family to survive and succeed. Should the Deep State prevail, Trump and his family are toast. There is no striking a bargain with them. They must win. Trump must win. Both cannot happen.

    Keep this in mind as we rail on about how Trump should do this or that. Not only is he fighting for America’s survival, he is fighting for his family’s survival. Literally. View everything that happens through this prism and imagine that you were in this position. Would you make a deal to let them off?

    Liked by 5 people

  18. chickenhawk says:

    It seems to me if an experienced prosecutor thinks the documents should not be released to the public and instead be used to catch the perps in their lies, should we not agree to that strategy?

    Many people here have stated that the documents must be released to the public. How many saying that have worked as a prosecutor? If Barr is a dishonest swampian, then we are already screwed. If on the other hand, Barr is trying to clean up the DOJ/IC/FBI etc., then we have to let him do what he does. Many are anxious for things to happen NOW; that is just human. But this ‘game’ requires some finesse, the laying of traps, the ferreting out of lies and misdirections from the conspirators.

    And as others have said, many of the public don’t know anything. It takes time for the MSM to report the truth, and usually have to be dragged kicking and screaming. This is one of Trump’s greatest strengths, I believe. To begin a process long before anyone knows he has, just to set the table, allowing him and his team to eventually take the action they have planned long before.

    Liked by 5 people

  19. Barr’s making Durham just another “reviewer”, of things we already know the answer to, and just another privileged storehouse to keep “declassified” documents (which we have been led to believe means open to public view, but now, once again, we see not) solely in the hands (and power) of the “illuminati” (using the word facetiously, for the “elite”, our “betters”, “holders of the law” — name your poison), is just more aiding and abetting of the treason (yes, I’m being a smart aleck, using that term, towards all who think arguing about “treason” vs “sedition” means anything, when the law enforcement itself is the real criminal here — none of them, insiders all, can or will, it appears again for the umpteenth straight time, really “investigate” themselves, or their own kind).

    Durham is an extension of Barr, but Barr is just an extension of, take your pick, any of the past holders of the reins working to keep the truth from the people for their own interests.

    The only thing left is, what form will the counter-insurrection take, and when will it take place?

    You cannot save the institutions, Mr. Barr, unless you take them down first.

    Like

    • Donzo says:

      This idea that we need to take down the institutions is not consistent with the idea that we need our institutions to survive as a democratic republic. The problem doesn’t rest with the institutions per se, but rather with those who inhabit them. That doesn’t mean some safeguard reforms are not also necessary. But burning the departments to the ground is a fast route to total collapse. If the perps are prosecuted and Congress institutes meaningful reform within the DOJ and IC, we will be well on our way to some meaningful resolution. Do you really want to torch the whole thing now that we have the best chance yet of bringing justice and start a revolution instead? That said, I do believe FISA needs to go along with its mother, the Patriot Act.

      Like

      • Donzo says:

        The Jeff Sessions effect. The damage he did to the body politic in incalculable.

        Like

      • I was speaking loosely, as it were, and you are simply playing with words. “Taking them down” is not “burning them to the ground” — and you quite (!) well know it.

        The devil is in the details, specifically the meaning of “the perps are prosecuted”. With regard to the FBI, for example, the IG reported a “culture” of political bias; so where do you draw the line at who is and who is not a “perp”?

        Like

        • Donzo says:

          “The only thing left is, what form will the counter-insurrection take, and when will it take place?”
          Your words not mine.
          So what do you mean if not to dismantle these organizations?

          Like

      • Jederman says:

        “…Do you really want to torch the whole thing now that we have the best chance yet of bringing justice and start a revolution instead?” I do.

        What good are the “institutions” to us? Are they serving US? All that had to be done when Wray was appointed, for example, would have been, as hard as it might have been, was to be forthright and say there are some problems and we’re looking into it… etc etc will keep the country informed and take appropriate action.

        Instead it was circle the wagons and sensitivity training. I took that as a go pound sand message to the entire country. No, I don’t want “revolution” I want to have faith in the DoJ. I want the peaceful transfer of power based on free elections to continue. If it becomes clear that is not going to happen then you can talk about revolution.

        Like

        • Funny how the corruptocrats in the extraconstitutional alphabet “agencies” all consider themselves as “government” when there is absolutely nothing in our Constitution creating nor calling for them.

          NONE of them were created to actually safeguard Americans or our security/LIBERTY. They are all deep state creations to protect the worst of all entity foisted upon us, the feral reserve.

          We do not need these deep state criminal entities, and it should be quite obvious to those of us who haven’t a “vested interest” in protecting them.

          I too, want them burned to the ground & the earth salted where they were so that nothing can arise like an evil phoenix from the ashes and the power of the states to handle things state by state as intended. Federal anything cannot be controlled as we have all seen, and corruptocrats never go away, and so far never pay for their CRIMES against We The People…

          If any one of us did .0001% of what these creeps have we would never see the light of day again… maybe from a box in the ground too.

          Like

  20. I have a question: If as a result of looking at all these documents Barr finds that charges can be laid, can the relevant documents be released publicly before any court cases? My feeling is that they would be evidence and could not be released publicly prior to any legal action.

    Like

  21. 6x47 says:

    It is essential to restoring the reputation of the DOJ, FBI, and other corrupted institutions that the bad actors be held accountable, and made an example of so nobody ever again dares to do what they did.

    Thus far, all have been given a pass under the 2-tiered system of justice: Insiders can literally get away with murder, outsiders are hammered to the fullest extent of the law – and beyond – for the most minor technical infractions.

    I remain hopeful but tempered by bitter experience, and will be pleasantly surprised if the heads that deserve to roll finally do. Sadly the expectation is “swamp gonna swamp” and nothing substantial will come of anything.

    Like

  22. jx says:

    Aaron Burr – charged with treason 1807, US was not at war
    John Brown – hanged for treason 1859, US was not at war
    Dozens of miners in West Virginia arrested for treason 1921, US was not at war

    Like

  23. Coast says:

    “So it’s just as dangerous- So when we talk about foreign interference versus say a government abuse of power, which is more troubling?”

    The answer is government abuse of power, since their activities would be more effective than foreign interference trying to hack a server or float a bogus dossier. What we have seen the FBI, CIA, DOJ, DNC and the Obama administration do proves that abuse of power is always more effective than outside influences.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Donzo says:

    Most of the established facts of the long-standing political surveillance and its weaponization to overturn an election are technically in the public domain, but due to media complicity remain unknown to the vast majority of that public nevertheless. So what makes anyone think that declassification will be any different vis-a-vis sunlight? The media will do what it always does until it can’t anymore. As others have said, it’s all about using that material to bring prosecutions. Should that fail then all bets are off and we are in a state of war. Sessions poisoned our trust in institutions, as evidenced by the call-to-arms in many of the comments. We need to keep the faith for the time being that PDT has in Barr, before we throw three sheets to the wind. I’m not talking about blind faith. Barr has much to commend him and he’s adept at maintaining his appearance of institutional objectivity.

    On a personal note, living in a bastion of progressive ideology, I have had countless conversations with progs about the deep state. There is nothing I can do or say that will convince them to take a deeper dive beyond what they want to believe. At this juncture, I have given up trying to spread the word among the unreceptive. They may or may not ever come to the truth. But it won’t come as a result of a declass. If it will be, it will be the result of prosecutions and confessions derived in part from that declass. Their reality must be thoroughly shattered by facts on the ground and images of treachery, prosecution and conviction. No amount of logical discourse will do the slightest good. It is a waste of time.

    I had to repost this as I inadvertently posted as a reply in the wrong place. Mea culpa.

    Like

    • Maquis says:

      Your observations support the notion that prompt declassification and release would simply be suppressed and spun by the Fourth Estate/Fifth Column and the reality selective Progs will remain in their bubbles of self-deception.

      So the greatest good regarding the documents is righteous aggressive prosecution accompanied by strategic releases with an eventual huge dump of damning docs that the Left can’t ignore. True, the Fifth Column will go through them looking to relitigate the prosecutions of their fellow conspirators, but that will simply expose more people to those docs and they will look to the documents themselves to avoid the spin, thus gaining much greater dissemination and investigation than a full immediate public release would.

      N’est-ce pas?

      GBPDJT
      🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

      Like

  25. leon0112 says:

    I understand the desire to get the communications between Strozk and L. Page, but why no desire to get communications between McCabe, Comey, Brennan and Clapper?

    Like

  26. leon0112 says:

    I understand the desire to get the communications between Strozk and L. Page, but why no desire to get communications between McCabe, Comey, Brennan and Clapper?

    Like

  27. Judy says:

    My problem is with the spying on America citizens since 2012 and probably before. My opinion, many people would/could be blackmailed.

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Pyrran says:

    Remember that declassification does not always mean public release.
    Declassification DOES mean that everyone who needs to see this stuff to get the job done will now see it. I know we’re all weary of this, but so far AG Barr has my support.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Boots says:

    “A constitutional republic can only accept so much demonstrable corruption before all hell breaks loose.”
    ——-
    Let slip the dogs….

    No quarter….

    Like

  30. Deep……real deep. I need a bigger scorecard….one with moire choices.

    Like

  31. Alec Rawls says:

    Domestic election meddling by weaponized arms of the incumbent administration is clearly worse than foreign interference in at least one fundamental way: with foreign interference there is still a chance to recover the constitutional democracy. To turn rigged elections into a permanent fixture the incoming party, after having gotten in with illegal foreign help (whether or not it illegally conspired in gaining that help), would have to go on to weaponize government powers so as to subvert the next election.

    In the case of election-rigging by the incumbent regime, this weaponization of domestic powers has already occurred. In the current example, if the Obama/Hillary success in converting our CIA-FBI-DOJ into the KGB has succeeded in sinking Trump’s candidacy, resulting in a Hillary victory, we would obviously never have seen another honest election again. Our new KGB, already weaponized for election stealing and already having succeeded once, would only get better at election stealing.

    On the other side, while there is no evidence that Russia wanted to help Hillary (it attacked both sides, Hillary with the Podesta leak and Trump via Russia’s likely role in the compilation of the full-of-lies Steele dossier), supposed for the sake of argument that Russia did want Trump to win. Since there was no Trump-Russia collusion there is no reason to think that foreign assistance provided to Trump would lead to any weaponization of U.S. government powers in the service of future pro-Russia or pro-Trump election meddling. Future elections would still be honest.

    At least in the current instance, where there is no evidence of collusion by Trump, the prospect of permanent loss of republican democracy is vastly larger when it is the incumbent administration that is using illegal means to undermine its electoral opposition.

    Like

  32. Gil Stonebarger says:

    hmmm some of us were roundly criticized and even banned because we dared to question the pace and direction of “justice” by the folks who were supposed to be on our side……. we expressed our doubts and frustrations and were called all manner of names….. vindication is nice…but very SAD…that nothing seems to have changed…..

    Like

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