FACT: It has been over 60-years since Canada purchased a submarine. FACT: Canada has never built one. FACT: Currently the Canadian military have ONE operable submarine out of a fleet of four used ones previously purchased. FACT: Canada recently proclaimed themselves as the North American defender of the Arctic.
Now, put all those facts in the overlay of the December 2024 meeting in Mar-a-Lago between President Trump and Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. President Trump was demanding that Trudeau increase their NATO spending and develop a working Canadian military.
Someone recently asked in the comments section why I have an issue with Canada, specifically why a new level of distain for our Northern neighbors. Quite simply, there is a level of lying that exceeds my tongue bite capacity; that level of deceit comes when fabricating lies is accompanied by pretending. The Canadian government is the worst type of political abuser. They willfully pretend and simultaneously lie to the Canadian people. That’s the answer.
Today, the government of Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney announce that German industrial shipbuilder TKMS will be awarded a contract for “up to 12 submarines” valued between $20 and $30 billion {source link}. Now, let’s not pretend.
First, the submarine contract is intended to get Canada back into reasonable position on their NATO obligations.
In reality, it is quite remarkable to think about the Canadian nation with only one currently functional submarine. “Canada hasn’t purchased unused submarines since the 1960s, during the Cold War, and has never ordered anywhere near 12 at once. Canada currently owns four subs, all of which were purchased second-hand, and only one of which is typically operational.” {citation} Now, think about that Mar-a-Lago conversation again.
Second, Canada can’t build their own submarines?
Wait, I’ve been told my statements about the absence of Canadian industrial capacity were mistaken. I’ve been told that Canada can produce heavy industrial equipment, and my statements about their heavy industry as functionally obsolescent were overstated. I’ve been criticized for saying that Canada has deindustrialized their economy in the past 30+ years because they have worshipped the altar of “global warming” or “climate change.”
Those two points above are directly connected, and those are the exact points that President Trump was talking to Justin Trudeau about very strongly.
Trudeau said there was no possibility of correcting this industrial lack of ability, and the U.S would just have to accept Canada’s high-horse pontificating position. That’s the core of the 51st state counterpoint.
[NOTE: You cannot have an industrial economy without the ability to create iron, steel, aluminum and various compounds of molten metal. You cannot make metal with windmills, solar or nuclear energy. You must generate massive amounts of heat. That heat is measured in joules because joules are the measurable unit for energy, and they provide a universal, precise way to quantify the energy transferred as heat. Industrial manufacturing takes joules, which creates carbon emission in the process.]
Keep in mind, the USMCA (CUSMA) is going to get terminated. As a consequence, it is easy to see the U.K and EU trying to provide the financial backstop to protect Canada (a commonwealth action). What Carney is doing with this submarine contract is offshoring $30 billion CAD to Germany at current rates, so that Germany can (a) offset their own industrial economic implosion; and (b) position to return a financial favor in the near future.
GERMANY – […] As panic spreads among German manufacturers, layoffs are rolling through formerly prosperous towns and villages with no living memory of a downturn. The moment could become a political turning point for a country whose wealth was largely created by the Mittelstand, or “middle-class”—shorthand for the inner core of Europe’s largest economy.
For the first time in decades, Germany now imports more advanced capital goods from China than it exports there. Manufacturers are suddenly on the defensive, not just in China and elsewhere, but also at home. (more)
Remember the “coalition of the willing” that Mark Carney injected himself into? The U.K, Germany, France and now Canada. They swim together or sink alone.
Oh, things are going to get really ugly. We underestimate when we say, “there are trillions at stake.”
GERMANY – According to Reuters, Volkswagen’s supervisory board is expected to discuss a sweeping restructuring proposal at a July 9 meeting. People familiar with the matter say the plan could eliminate up to 100,000 jobs and close four factories in Germany, adding to roughly 50,000 workforce reductions already planned. If approved, it would become the largest restructuring in Volkswagen’s history and one of the biggest workforce overhauls the global auto industry has ever seen. (more)
Now, is the Mark Carney contract to Friedrich Merz making more sense?
Canada claims they are going to lead the protection of the Arctic and defend Greenland from horrible Trump’s entreaties.
Canada has one submarine, a carbon exchange system to block industrial production/capacity, and a functionally obsolescent military severely behind in meeting NATO obligations.
But President Trump’s expressed frustration and anger at their sanctimonious pontificating have hurt the feelings of Canadians, or something equally pretentious.
Think about it.



A lot of maritime designs are copied. It’s rare when anyone designs and builds a completely new ship.
The US designed and built the LCS. Enough said. Now they will copy a proven design from Japan and the USCG for their new frigates.
Ship designers such as the likes of William Francis Gibbs are few and far between…
The ship designer was a designer of ships, liberty ships and “The Big U”…SS United States…he gave design attention to reducing the risk of on board fires, he lived 1886-1967. Real naval architects are few and far between. The following link gives a bit of his history. He was passionate.
“The Big U” was important in my family…the opening of this article, brings a tear or two…
https://www.harvardmagazine.com/2012/06/vita-william-francis-gibbs
Is that how Gibbs in NCIS got his name for the show?🤗🇺🇸
That is true.
What had gotten the US Navy in trouble, more than once is taking an existing design and heavily modifying into a practically new design. Nevermind constant change orders for stuff that was already built resulting in lots of rework.
No wonder that it blew up the unit costs of the Constellation Class frigates that were going to be built in greater numbers. Instead, Congress decided not to order more of those hulls aside from the initial production run.
Though, considering who was in charge of Navy procurement not so long ago was a Obama appointee there was a non-zero chance that the intention was to screw up American shipbuilding for the foreseeable future and make it more uncompetitive with everyone else, especially China.
Yep and in the case of the LCS we ended up with a bunch of ships that are almost useless and for many, they were decommissioned right after launch.
Lots of blame to go around including the prior administration, Navy brass and eager shipbuilders and their lobbyists.
Maybe Bezos will buy a couple and some surplus helicopters for his wife.
What a waste of money!
Saw one in Birmingham once. Wicked looking but apparently useless.
Almost useless.
Then there’s the Zumwalts (DDG 1000’s) with a deck gun that couldn’t be used as Congress didn’t want to buy the ordnance for it.
At least now they will be refit with a new larger vertical launch missile system replacing that deck gun for hypersonic missiles.
At least they will have more purpose as a technology demonstrator and a long range strike asset in the fleet.
Didn’t the first one turn into a rust bucket within months of putting to sea? Think I saw a picture of it heading back to port looking more like a scrapper than a battleship.
The first one or two of the Zumwalts if I remember right had a composite deckhouse. Kind of hard for composites to rust with minimal metal involved. The third got one made of aluminum I think.
Thinking that rust bucket was one of the two classes of LCS ships.
Yes, the LCS ships made up North were steel. The ones made in Alabama were aluminum.
And the HMS Sheffield was the end of aluminum superstructures.
Just before the summit.
How quaint.
Where will the money come from given Canada’s looming depression?
Dad told me a little about the Great Depression but only after a lot of beer. Not pretty.
They are going to borrow it from as of yet unborn children, and their children. Who the advocate being aborted to save the planet.
They will tax sex and abortions! Like a Monty Python farce.
The looming Looney losses.
They’ll borrow it from China, that’s how clever they are.
I hear “rust belt” blues.
Oh Canada!
I pronounce it almost the same way, but I spell it Ugh Canada!
So Canada plans then to keep the Germans employed?
A few years back I remember some economist remarking about the new service economy: “What are we going to do? Fix each other’s vacuum cleaners?”
Well fixing the refrigerators is out, Samsung and LG saw to that.
I was in high school and remember thinking, “How’s that gonna work?”
Not the Germans; maybe the “new” Germans, you know, the ones imported from the ME.
Germany said they would generate employment throughout Canada in bits and pieces.
Germany is saying a lot of things such as some 94,000+ new jobs will be created over the next ten years because of those subs
What I’m thinking would be linked to the staffing and the maintenance of these new 12 submarines which will be Canada’s responsibility.
Certainly NOT 94,000+ new jobs.
Build back better?
busted!
Predict that contract will not be filled or paid for….
I’m betting it’s a fake paper contract, with ambiguous terms in every sentence
How is Canadian government going to protect the Arctic from China? China controls Canada now.
Minor detail!
Screen doors optional.
Canadian U-Boats.
They can form a Canuck Pack off the St. Lawrence.
And sink all those cheese and wine convoys from Europe.
is it a make-work project to reduce the # of layoffs coming from VW? It is paid for by laundered money, such as from Ukraine war.
German engineering is not what it used to be, but they are still competent.
They are currently the master race of designing over-priced crap that fails the day after warranty expires.
(THAT takes some serious skill, sister)
They are also the expert in assuring no replacement part will be available without considerable grief.
They will however, be happy to sell you yet another over-priced, throw-a-way wundergadget.
I used to drive a Volkswagen. At some point, the driver’s-side window got stuck in the “down” position and would not elevate. What had actually happened was that the glass was held in place on the elevator mechanism by a rather flimsy piece of plastic (that weird, milky kind that breaks easily and just shrugs off super-glue) but the dealer informed me that it was not possible to replace this $0.25 plastic clip as Volkswagen does not sell them individually; you have to buy a whole door unit instead.
Thinking about it one could probably 3d print small parts like that with a suitable scanner setup to render the model.
In addition to the missing heavy industry, it is an engineering fact that submarines are hard, right up there with reusable rockets.
@John Chisum gets it.
Well, I am not sure if PDJT included submarines when during his election rallies, he talked about making American ship building great again?
WE should build the Canadian submarines, all 12 of them…and tariff them.
The unions down in Norfolk might have something to say about all this stuff?
Honestly, I doubt Canada could afford to buy a dozen nuclear submarines at 12,000,000,000+ USD per, as I don’t think our shipyards have built diesel-electric in more than 60 years.
There’s obviously an issue with technology transfer using purely US designs. Then again, there is that one deal to build nuclear submarines for Australia.
If my recall is correct, Canada won’t allow US businesses to bid on contracts there. I believe it was the recent interview our ambassador gave to CBC.
The Canadians are also discouraging travel into US.
The Canadian federal government is also mooting the idea of a crippling “exit tax” to be levied on any Canadians who might think of moving to the U.S. permanently.
Seems like Canadian attitudes are similar to American attitudes IN THAT in the deep blue cities people are clueless and lie to themselves on a regular basis, believe whatever they hear/see on the mainstream news, and are arrogant about it. But, in the American heartland, as in the Canadian vast countryside and/or rural areas, people are stoutly conservative and think for themselves. Very independent sorts, because they have to be.
But, I hear you… the Canadian government is playing a very stupid, and dangerous, game. But, I recall our leadership played that very same stupid, dangerous, game for decades! Until Trump. Trump is focused on bringing manufacturing back home, which is what we need to be a strong country. Canada “should be” doing the same thing, not playing “I’ll scratch your back, if you scratch mine” with Germany or any other country. Maybe they are just in their stupid place, like we were with Obama and Biden. Hopefully, they can recover from it down the road.
In 1941, England was trying to deal with severely injured soldiers and citizens WITH A SHORTAGE OF MEDICINES, because they were produced in GERMANY!
Sounds familiar, doesn’t it? Thanks to President Trump, the US no longer has to rely on China for our medicines!
In the early 1980s, US Navy Secretary Lehman beat the drum for a “600-ship Navy” which, when joined by NATO’s navies, would counter the at that time 1700-ship navy of the Soviet Union. Now, 40 years later, we have Carney beating the drum for a fearsome Canadian “12-ship navy.” I feel safer that our northern flank is being protected by the Canucks, don’t you? /sarc
And here’s the most ridiculous part even if they had the funds…
It would take a decade or more. Pretty sure China or Russia could overwhelm Greenland and their dozen Danish soldiers in a fraction of that time. What a joke!
Build times:
* Conventional submarines: 5-10 years
* Nuclear-powered submarines: 10-15 years
* Advanced submarines: 15-20 years or more
* International collaborations: 10-15 years
They are building midget submarines 12 months tops to build
Aren’t they getting “solar powered” subs? You know to “save the planet?!”/sarc….maybe!
Germany. hahaha Posted earlier about German defense contractors and their government:
Former chancellor Merkel told Rheinmetall “We don’t really need you”, CEO reveals
Rheinmetall CEO Armin Papperger has publicly criticised former chancellor Angela Merkel of the Christian Democratic Union (CDU), claiming she was highly dismissive of the defence company and that Germany would rely on the United States in times of crisis.
Speaking at the Welt Security Summit on July 2, Papperger recounted that Merkel had told the arms sector: “We don’t really need you, if there is a problem we call the Americans.” The dependence on Washington, he suggested, had been a deliberate choice.
https://brusselssignal.eu/2026/07/former-chancellor-merkel-told-rheinmetall-we-dont-really-need-you-ceo-reveals/
They are all in on the country destroying build back better climate scam and are deindustrializing. Canada’s just further along because they didn’t have the depth of industry that Germany does/did.
“Wait, I’ve been told my statements about the absence of Canadian industrial capacity were mistaken. I’ve been told that Canada can produce heavy industrial equipment, and my statements about their heavy industry as functionally obsolescent were overstated.”
A Canadian has something to say about that in a reply to me on another thread:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2026/07/05/ambassador-hoekstra-interview-highlights-how-canadian-govt-controls-canadian-media/comment-page-2/#comment-12679360
They have forests. Can’t they whittle out some big tree logs and make homemade subs?
Even train some beavers to swim alongside to fool their enemies. Maple syrup torpedoes that gum up the works of opposing ships. I think they have everything they need for their pretend military!
Oh, Canard-ada.
Hosers led by hosers …
That’s all they know…
Hosin!
Oh dear. And we are not anywhere near the bottom….
Those poor folk.
So when EU & Canada are flooded with China’s EVs, the soon to be defunct German automotive industry is converted to making military equipment, which will be a challenge since Z blew up Nord Stream pipe line.
The UKR-RUS war must continue at any cost!!
Charles is going to have to sell the Crown jewels soon to keep Canada afloat.
I feel like UK-EU-Canada are now in one big circular never ending loop!
“… asked in the comments section why I have an issue with Canada, specifically why a new level of distain for our Northern neighbors…. ”
Because their leaders have proven to be anything but our friends.
They are more closely aligned with the chi-coms, the new world order, leeching misery and treachery incorporated.
Should it continue, I foresee the need for a closed, militarily secured border to prevent infiltration by undesirables.
I hope they do not plan on staffing more than one of the new subs at a time, seeing as they do not have a active naval force
They can train their new sub crews by having them watch AMERICAN movies featuring submariners.
That graph of Germany is amazing. 10 years of decline.
Decay by choice.
Agreed, what happened in 2017? Is that when they went green??
An object in motion tends to stay in motion. It is going to be near impossible to turn the graph upward. That graph will be exactly Canada from this day forward.
So 20 to 30 billions wasted. Who is going to man these subs? By the time they are built (unlikely), they won’t have people to man them.
Last time mid-80s in a Canadian sub (diesel rock crusher) in Groton, Conn. the executive officer had invited a number of US military aboard to partake of libations. Ice cold Labatts and Moose head right out of one of the missile tubes.
Good ole days when no one was thinking about how bad their govt was taking full advantage of and abusing the US taxpayers with the help of our very own politicians. Spit
They’ve got a remarkable amount of hubris. It’s stunning, really. Defenders of the Arctic my @$$…they couldn’t even defend themselves from Texas if it came down to it.
As a Texan I’m going to assume that was some kind of backhanded compliment, partner. 🤣
Meant as a compliment to you indeed 🙂
💯 🎯 As always Sundance! Much as it pains me.
Here’s the shiny new Carney a year ago basically saying that we don’t need steel anyway, when being asked about the costs of his net zero goals. (Prompted, watch ~2 minutes)
🤯 🤮 😡
Since joules were mentioned, I’ll add this. It is is so far OT I need to apologize. But I can’t resist …
Joules are kind of unfamiliar to a lot of folks. But we’re all used to talking about the watts for our lights and appliances.
For scale and visualization, it helps to remember that power is the rate at which energy is transferred from one place to another or converted from one form to another. Energy and power are related, but not the same thing.
Energy is about how much work (or heating or cooling) can be done.
Power is about how fast the work (or heating or cooling) can be done.
One watt of power means that one Joule of energy gets transferred or converted. 1 watt = 1 joule per second.
So, your 10 watt light bulb uses ten joules of energy every second it operates.
If it’s on for 5 seconds, it uses 50 joules of energy.
A 10 megawatt data center uses 10 million joules of energy every second. (Mega = million)
Since I’m being geeky about this, I’ll do a geeky correction:
One watt of power means that one Joule of energy gets transferred or converted IN ONE SECOND. 1 watt = 1 joule per second.
Where it gets more fun is when you work with coulombs.
Probably one of these days should finishing getting to the point of working as an electrical engineer.
Statcoulombs or abcoulombs? Or vanilla coulombs?
This little blast from the past is from when there were at least four different “metric” systems, jangling with each other mainly over what to do with the electrical and magnetic stuff.
An Italian scientist proposed the basis for simplification around 1900. There was pretty complete scientific agreement in the late 40s, and a formal standard in 1960. No more calories, no more torrs, no more ergs, no more dynes.
And now just plain coulombs.
Just plain old coulombs now.
Even though I quite enjoy working with electrical systems and electronics, breaking into a better occupation with more focus on that has been elusive.
Prayers and best wishes for your occupation goals.
Great explanatio
Thanks TexSwede. Fortunately I’m not usually in such a geeky mood.
Who needs a neighbor that has been so abusive to the country that stands on guard thee ?
Where is Canada going to come up with 20 to 30 billion because the
Canadian military has less than 68.000 active and less than 33.000 reserves with a whopping 40 active military ships and now they are gonna pursue Subs ?
BS
So what hat trick is that rabbit gonna appear rom
Sundance: The first sentence of your post would be accurate if you specified that Canada hasn’t purchased a new submarine in over 60 years.
Thanks for all you do!
Childish.
Wait a minute, wasn’t that $30ca billion destined for Ukraine? Is Carney turning his back on the war on Russia? Oh, probably not; he will probably take a page out of other countries in dilapidation and just print it.
Clarke and Dawe, the front fell off.
It’s just an embarrassment….the posturing is beyond ridiculous…pipelines and submarines announced by Carney….so many announcements….they are desperate. Looking forward to Trumps speech at the Nato in Turkey this week…Hopefully he bangs some heads together and causes the dissolution of NATO grifters or outright leaves NATO.
There’s also 180 Onshore Monster Windmills, the biggest and tallest, going up in Nova Scotia, all within one area of four small towns. There’s no way a bird or a bat can fly through that gauntlet. I’m so discouraged by the multi-faceted destruction occurring in Canada.
These subs are going to be solar powered with windmill assistance when they surface, right?
Anything else would be blasphemy to the Green religion.
Specifically, they will have solar powered fans that blow into the windmills to turn them, generating power to pump the biodiesel fuel, composted from the strictly vegan crew diet, into the infernal internal combustion engine.
It’s practically a perpetual motion Canadian miracle!
… as long as they can surface every 90 minutes during bright sunlight hours.
Canada chooses TKMS as preferred bidder.
The Government of Canada and TKMS will now enter into negotiations to finalise the contracts and all arrangements required to deliver the requirements of the CPSP. Canada will conclude contracting no later than the end of 2027, with the first four submarines to be delivered ahead of schedule, in 2034. In the event that negotiations with the preferred supplier are unsuccessful, Canada may designate Hanwha Ocean as the preferred supplier and enter into negotiations.
https://canadiandefencereview.com/canada-chooses-tkms-as-preferred-bidder-for-cpsp-submarine-fleet/
If, IF, they get built, probably depends more on the 2028 U.S. elections than anything else. Doubt if they ever get built. 🤔
Lehmme tell the pretenders how it used to be!
When my grandfather founded our family machinery manufacturing business in 1897, parts were not available, so we had to make our own!
We had a foundry to make our cast iron housings for bearings, sprockets and gears. We carved those items out of hardwood and packed them in molds made made of sand mixed with molasses. We had no ball bearings or roller back then so we smelted our own babbit, a slippery metal to be greased before inserting steel axles that were lathed to the proper diameter then cut to length using our band saws. We had a steel shop for bending, cutting and drilling steel plate and a machine shop where we threaded our own screws and bolts with a threading machine and cooked our own rivets to join our machines together…
In short, my family’s little business was a country unto itself. We depended on no one because we made everything we needed ourselves!
Are you listening,Canada? Hell no, they’re not listening and they won’t until the shite hits the fan because they’re suffering from terminal rigor mortis of their industries and their politics!
Twenty years ago the Canadian dollar bought about $1.06 U.S. and today it buys only 70 U.S. cents! What does that tell you when the average Canadian wage earner buys most of his goods from America?
Meanwhile, for month after month, the U.S. job market has been growing far faster than the “expert” economist pretenders at Bloombergs and Barrons ever imagined!
And what sector is growing the fastest?
The trades! Blue Collar jobs! for smokestack industries!
So the choice for Mark Corney is clear…American Blue Collar jobs or Canadian Green New Deal unemployment!
And we can be sure he won’t make the right choice!
They swim together (in circles) than they drift together as flotsam.
In exchange the Canadians probably think Germany will allow them to assemble the German made parts of their cars and sell them in the USA. They won’t get that while Trump is President, but they might after 2028.
The fun part that makes this even more interesting is all the logistical support that goes with w new class of naval vessels.
At least 2-new Tenders will be needed.
If Canada does not want to have their submarines doing yard periods and maintenance in GERMANY …. a port will need to modified to accept them.
Then there is training for the crew and logistics support staff …. meaning simulators and other training assets needed in Canada …. unless it’s all done in GERMANY.
Geee … who will be provisioning the spares … GERMANY again … or will the daunted Canadian Industry provide??
Ask Argentina if they have recovered the German Built sub that sank in the Atlantic with all hands on board. the crew was blames for the loss … but who knows.
Then there is the armament? Yep .. German again.
The link below takes you to the page with a description of the German Type 212 Submarine in question. These are not NEW Designs.
Type 212A submarine – Wikipedia
I find it humorous that Canada and Germany are collaborating on a fossil fuel submarine project.
It’s looking increasingly likely that GREENLAND will become the 51st state.
It is a geopolitical inevitability that the US will take over Canada.
Canada lacks economic might, seriousness and most importantly sheer population commensurate to its territorial reach. We can’t have this kind of clownery on our northern frontier.
That was the position of many Americans throughout the 19th century. I think they just kind of forgot about it in the big global political board re-shuffling of WWI and its immediate aftermath.
They have already chosen China as their trading partners. The Chinese influence along with the British Crown is what is driving Carney. This is going to be a danger to us. Our borders are porous and industrial spies abound.
Carney will use this promise of a contract to show Canada is sincere about meeting their 5% NATO obligation. Convenient with the NATO summit happening soon and with the specter of USMCA hanging over their heads.
But when the time is right, like just after President Trump has left office or even before that if possible, then Canada will cancel the program before hardly anything has been spent on it. After all, Britain and Germany have both recently cancelled huge naval ship building programs, which may well be where Carney got this idea. It is all BS and I am sure Trump, Hegseth, Rubio, Vance and crew are not fooled by it.
The Canadians will say they are spending $30 bn on German submarines.
The Germans will say they are spending $30 bn on French aircraft.
The French will say they are spending $30 bn on British tanks.
The British will say they are spending $30 bn Canadian fuel for strategic reserves
All of them will claim they are increasing their NATO defense spending
Nothing will be built.
Coalition of the willing…to lie.
Seems so.
Sounds like a variation of the old joke about how, in hell, the cooks are British, the police are German, the mechanics are French, the lovers are Swiss and the mechanisms of government are operated by the Italians.
Canada is buying from Germany. But Germany isn’t that much stronger. The German navy has only six diesel-electric/fuel cell air independent propulsion (AIP) Type 212A submarines, commissioned between 2004 and 2016. So all at least 10 years old.
For a period of time between 2017 and 2018 all of Germany’s submarines were inactive due to a variety of maintenance needs. The German military has suffered very poor operational readiness in all its branches, land, sea and air. Supposedly all six subs have since reentered active service. https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/german-submarine-capabilities/
More like “DAS BOOTE” from the comedy movie BEERFEST.
The Defenders of the arctic (both of them)

“Sometimes I just want to puke on Sergeant Preston of the Yukon; Dudley Do-Right’s such a jerk…“
They swim together or sink alone. Are you sure? Maybe they swim together and sink together as they bail the boat from one end and drill holes in it at the other.
I was surprised to read Canada has one operable submarine. I believe that to be a generous observation.
To be fair, it’s a kid’s ride inside Canada’s Wonderland, at the Splash Works 20 acre water park.
The navy gets to use it in the off season.
Ouch
I’m surprised con Carney didn’t buy his subs from the ChiComms
Naaah … it would be better if he went straight to the source Russia.
Just don’t buy Russian Torpedoes … see Submarine Kursk disaster.
Buying Russian submarines to deter Russian “aggression”.
I think the Russkies have more respect for themselves than selling them to Canada.