Pavel Durov is the founder, owner and CEO of Telegram, a communication platform used by 900 million people globally to text, chat and video message privately with encryption security. Telegram is an excellent tool for safe communication and has been used by me and others I know for several years.
In this interview Tucker Carlson discusses privacy and freedom in the modern era with Telegram founder and CEO Pavel Durov, a former citizen of Russia who was encouraged (under threat) by the Russian government to leave his country. Pavel now lives in Dubai and operates Telegram from the United Arab Emirates (UAE).
For me personally, this is one of the best interviews I have watched Tucker Carlson deliver. Part of the reason is the content of the discussion is exactly critical right now in the era of this global information war.
There is so much I could discuss from this interview alone it is remarkable; however, I want to focus on two specific points as highlighted: (1) the government interface, and (2) the geopolitical inversion currently underway. WATCH:
First, I am in Russia. I arrived a few days ago, and this experience is a visit through bizarro world. I will be sharing more, including an AMA on my experience in the next few articles. Back to Pavel Durov, first…
The BASELINE – The Durov brothers are exceptionally gifted. In reference to the principle of freedom and liberty that guides Pavel, he has my respect and I understand his value system with great clarity. Pavel Durov recognized very early, much earlier than most, that information would be fulcrum challenge, and without private communication the value of information is always eroded. Privacy is critical in order for accurate information to flow. That is the value of Telegram.
I continue to receive strong negative opinion for my cynicism of Elon Musk. However, pay close attention to what Pavel Durov says about his contacts with U.S. government officials and you will have a stronger baseline to understand part of why I do not trust Musk.
♦ THE TOUCHES – Durov controls Telegram. Durov is the owner and proprietor of Telegram. Durov talks openly about the *touches* from U.S. intelligence and government officials toward him and his communication platform. He is very open about the contacts by FBI and various intel officials, and notes those conversations were always unnerving.
Now, we ask ourselves: why have we never heard Twitter owner/operator Elon Musk talking about this issue.
Beyond the decade plus of independent research on these issues, we get a very good context for how the IC approaches and interacts with the communication platforms from this interview with Pavel Durov. What he shares does not have to be taken at face value because we have background with which to review it. Everything he said aligns with all the research on these issues we have previously discussed. Quite simply, he’s telling the truth as we know it to be.
That said, where is this conversation from Elon Musk? Where is Musk discussing the government contacts and intentions of the intelligence apparatus, FBI, DHS and various Intelligence Community institutions toward the Twitter platform.
I cannot overlook that Elon Musk was talking about the importance of user privacy and security at the exact same time he was secretly complying with the DOJ to give the metadata of all Donald Trump supporters from his platform. These things do not reconcile, and I refuse to pretend this conflict does not exist.
♦ The INVERSION – I call the change in freedom and liberty values West to East an inversion. Pavel Durov does not note this directly, but he outlines the basic issues within his discussion and experience.
For decades the USA and proverbial “west” transmitted messages of freedom and liberty into the “east.” We are all familiar with radio and television broadcasts, and specifically the content therein, from the free West that were blocked by what we called the oppressive East.
There are millions of stories, movies and books written describing how the west tried to send communication to the east showcasing the value of free markets, liberty, and freedom in general. However, in the past 20 years, since the advent of the internet something very curious has happened.
I can tell you from personal experience that now it is the WEST who are blocking the ability of the people from the EAST to receive the message. If you in the EASTERN zone (grey) and you attempt to engage in several communication platforms that connect to the WESTERN zone (yellow), you are more likely to find yourself blocked by the WEST.
Why would the USA or western alliance block the ability of those outside the west to engage with their platforms? One could make the argument they are putting walls around the USA/WEST not to keep the East out but to keep the west locked-in to a specific narrative.
In the example of Russia, I originally thought the blocking issue was exclusive to banking and finance; however, the restricted interface extends beyond those explainable by sanctions. In the modern communication era, some information is more equal than others.
What Pavel outlines about the Russian government asking him for data on users, is identical to what the Twitter files outlined about the U.S government asking the platform for users. Pavel refused to participate; Jack Dorsey willingly participated.
More to follow…
Telegram will not protect you on any apple device because apple devices scan content before it gets encrypted or when it gets decrypted on the other end if it is an apple device. That is my understanding.
Don’t think so but do your own research.
Dead on! Once your hardware is compromised, your software’s ability to spy on you is mostly irrelevant.
Android mobile devices comprise 80+% of the global market. Apple has less than 20% of global market.
Microsoft Windows-based personal computers comprise about 72% of that market. Apple computers comprise about 20%
If what you describe is accurate (you provided no source for your information), then it’s safe to say that of anyone doesn’t think that exact same scanning isn’t going on in Android and Windows devices then I have a bridge to sell them, cheap.
Apple is by far the worst. They do client-side scanning on all their devices (phones, ipads, computers). You can’t even turn an iphone or ipad OFF! The screen goes dark but the devices still transmit signals at all times. That is how ‘Find my iphone’ and airtags work.
Windows computers have client-side scanning too, its called the anti-virus program. But, so far, there is no evidence that they report directly to the government like apple does.
Please provide a current source for your technical assertions.
I personally don’t believe that any commercially produced computer or mobile device is secure from government exploiting, if the government wants to exploit it.
BUT..logic and history suggests that the government or hackers will seek to exploit a product that enjoys a 72% – 80% market share before it will spend resources to exploit ONLY a product that is only in 20% of the market. That’s just my opinion, I could find no expert articles after 1/2 hour of searching that address this particular issue of scanning translated encrypted messages.
The current Apple macOS has a combination of Unix components along with Apple’s proprietary technologies and is UNIX 03-compliant which is more robust than anything Microsoft has ever sold, IMO.
What are you using, Gulag? Discussions of client side scanning on phones are all over the place.
Try startpage.com and search for the following words:
client side scanning on iphone
I already searched using Yandex and found an article indicating Apple moved away from client side scanning and provided protection as an option for parents.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2022/12/09/apple-expands-icloud-encryption-moves-away-from-client-side-scanning/
Of course they actually stopped…and never gather any data…and never lie.
So my source lies and your source is impeccable. Got it.
Has nothing to do with the MSM reporting things (which as an aside have consistently shown they lie more often than not) GB. It has everything to do with Apple, which has been repeatedly caught with their hand in the cookie jar and who is run by people at the top who are part of those who would rule over all.
We all must make our own choices and do our best to discern fact versus fiction. No need to take it as something personal. We disagree – just as we both do on any number of things with any number of people.
Fine.
I’ll end this discussion by stating the irrefutable fact that my experience with using Apple Mac computers for 15 years has not yet revealed any problems caused by what you are claiming.
Plus, my online experience via Apple mac laptops has been magnitudinally improved from the malware and virus-laden environment I had to operate within using Windows equipment that had to be loaded with anti-virus, anti-malware and other overhead-hogging protection applications. And in the end, those programs did not provide sufficient protection.
So I switched and have not had ANY issues. So let them “scan” me, if in fact that’s what they’re doing.
End.
Apple is far more trustworthy than Microsoft. Windows is surveillance software.
My throught process was similar… one would need to use a *hardware* VPN, layered with a *software* VPN, in order to initially connect to Telegram, create an account, and thereafter only access it through those tunnels. I am not a Telegram user because in my experience, there is zero privacy in the U.S., and I don’t have the energy any more to create layers of security that the U.S. government already has encryption keys to… if that makes sense. It was possible back in the day. Not any more.
Not to mention that besides encryption keys, they also have backdoors everywhere they want.
The alternative to Apple and android phones are one of the many versions of privacy phones available. Most privacy phones are based on a basic version of android that is open source, and thereby verifiable. Privacy phones are not apple and not android. Therefore, no scanning will be done by the operating system. If you have a privacy phone you can use telegram without concern.
Go to youtube and do some searching for privacy phones. I am not going to reveal my youtube source because I don’t want him be visited by government.
My apple devices are quite successful at preventing Telegram content from reaching my eyes when they so choose. It’s quite sad really.
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Assume, as Durov says right in the interview re himself (!) that everything you do can be and is able to be monitored.
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You’ll have to go much deeper into the assessment.
You need information on the E2E security architecture. Most phone, laptop, etc., security architectures feature system designs that introduce some mix of secure boot, “trusted” paths, protected keys, data/code integrity checks, secure crypto processors, etc., capabilities.
Processing power and time to service are major limiters. If anyone thinks that a given virus checker, for example, is thorough to the nth degree – that’s a major mistake. Market suppliers know that at the end of the day their customers rate time to service above security – most of us will not sit about twiddling our thumbs while a file is completely virus checked; the priorities and “shortcuts” taken by different commercial algorithms vary widely – as does their threat ranking/reputation services.
In reality, one pays to play cybersecurity; one pays to meet the prevailing security standard (market driven commercial, policy driven gov’t).
There is no “bullet proof” cybersecurity architecture – it took me a while to convince a Flag officer I once supported who was not IT savvy (but responsible nevertheless) to absorb this contextual aspect of cybersecurity. Cybersecurity revolves around the value of the information, resources required to protect the information and the time needed to break the implemented/operated layered cybersecurity. It’s a cat and mouse game conditioned by time, resources and value (i.e., risk).
The focus here, what Sundance is aimed at, is the political decision by service providers (e.g. X) to “share” individual metadata with the government. Metadata is a complicated subject. Use Gmail for free? Google has the right to collect metadata. Hold a service provider accountable for cybersecurity? Metadata/contextual data is needed for all sorts of security functions (e.g., historical reconstruction). Does anyone doubt that metadata was used to piece together/reconstruct the actions and associations of the 9/11 terrorists?
There are laws gathering dust on judicial book shelves in respect to individual privacy rights. Like most other laws these days (one can venture a summary assumption based on current events) ENFORCEMENT is highly politicized. Two Tier justice system. IMO…this should be the primary target, the starting point, for accountability.
Excellent interview. Pavel Durov is living his values & beliefs & that’s pretty awesome to see.
If I were inclined (which I’m not) I’d support his platform.
Seems like Telegram is one of the few sources for actual truth concerning daily events about the Ukraine War.
Thats where I started learning about the other side early on, from Telegram. More accurately from blogs that freely linked to Telegram. Some of these blogs no longer exist, BTW
And by early on, I mean by April of 2022. Just knew something was amiss with the narrative, so started looking elsewhere
Personally, I am finding that navigating my computer is much more difficult that it used to be. I can feel the presence of something lurking in the background. I believe that one day, computer technology will go the way of the dinasoar for those of us considered “deplorables.” Many of us don’t have an IT department to keep us up to date and most of the instructions for doing anything on the computer are very complicated to simple users.
There is no such thing as truth on the internet. Everybody lies. The Ukraine War is one of these hot button issues where 99.99 percent of the information on social media is propaganda.
Even experienced journalists and bloggers can be used by state actors and their intelligence agencies as the so called floaters.
By the way, a good intel. operative never lies all the time.
True. Like the majority of the internet is not going to tell you that one of the Reason Putin went into Russia is because Ukraine had launched over 4,000 missiles into the Donbas/Crimean region in the years before the invasion. The majority of the people in that region were Russian speaking citizens that held allegiance to Russia.
True. Never supported Ukraine. Why should I? Just another corrupt regime.
Ukraine has been the playground for the USIC and Deep State linked NGO’s schemes and DC political grift for well over a decade; it has been well documented (i.e. the coup against Yanukovich, Joe’s quid pro quo dealings including Burisma hiring Hunter, and plenty of other shady stuff). Yet suddenly, the same corrupt Ukraine is the modern-day Alamo in the battle to save all mankind and democracy? Yeah, right.
Operating a system capable of handling nearly a billion active users without state or semi-state funding. Yeah, I heard about that.
And if you believe that Durov is an independent operator, I got a great deal on SHARES in a bridge,… the Brooklyn Bridge!
Did you listen to the interview?
He did not, he had to clock in on our taxpayers dime to cause confusion and dismay like a good little communist
The lunches at Ft. Meade are pretty good, from what my Congressional friends tell me.
I don’t know what they are like up on Nebraska Ave. NW, however.
In fact I did, and I enjoyed every minute of it, including Tucker inability to ask the right questions like “boy, who pays for your server bills?” An almost billion of active users.
That’s what I was wondering….who pays the server bills? I don’t go to Telegram…are there enough ads to keep it going?
Ace Twitty and Scarlet …
I listened carefully to the entire interview , and the subject of how Telegram funds the daily cost of the immense bandwidth needed to support Telegram was NOT asked by Tucker.
…. soooooo the question remains … how is the bandwidth funded and by whom ?
Sorry Ace Twittly … misspelled you name.
Forgot to add an important point. During the interview Pavel mentioned how the “spooks” tried to get him to use some specific open source libraries in his software , but he turned them down.
I wonder how much opensource code is actually compromised and specifically Linux. Governments have immense resources and no doubt are devoting a lot of effort to compromise critical aspects of opensource code such as Linux.
I’ve never had kids, but he seems to be one of those wonderful young men that you would have expected to see in America years ago, with those kind of values and his mature and simultaneously delightful personality. I don’t think we raise ’em up like that anymore 🙁
I think our schools and our teachers have gotten to them in very bad ways.
The influence of rock/Rap music, open agendas on the internet, and TV that stinks adds to the dumbing down of American youth. Divorce and the absence of parents when it counts, doesn’t help matters much either.
I think my grown children are delightful but I did homeschool them. Not that that protected them 100% because the rot oozes everywhere and I purposefully used technology. I wasn’t homeschooling out of fear but because I didn’t want to give up all their time to the government. This was the 90s and 00s and I was still rather naive. I clearly remember explaining how we may have some areas of corruption and bad actors but it was “nothing like South America et al.” I apologized to them but i didn’t need to because they know that I was always trying to do my best and it is what I truly believed. Somehow they turned out to be more pragmatic and realistic than me and it does sadden me to see them working hard to make a place for themselves in today’s world. Anyway, we moved quite a bit and I’ve met a lot of younf people and America is still producing good ones though not in the numbers we were. It is so much harder. I am so glad all of mine are grown. I nipped under the wire before full blown social media – I was still just deciding when they could get a cell phone. I am not one to denounce tools but rather the use thereof, however, I cannot imagine any way in which social media helps with a young person growing up.
Musk, Zuckerberg, Jack or Durov – they all are either fronts for or puppets of the different state actors. At a minimum, they are willing collaborators, which they all, of course, are going to deny.
It’s impossible to operate servers handling nearly a billion of active users who pay no subscription fees without backing of a state actor. It’s that simple.
Therefore, the only difference is really where you live and what you do.
If you are a regular Joe living in the U.S., you don’t really care about TikTok or Telegram collecting your data or “spying” on your social media activities. It’s inconsequential. Also, they are very unlikely to censor, shadow-ban or to remove your content critical of the U.S. governments, federal or state agencies. This is why the U.S. government is trying to ban TikTok, and why the EU was trying to ban or control Telegram.
However, if you are involved in some kind of sensitive research, have access to proprietary technologies, or your job requires you to receive or read sensitive or classified national security information, you are obviously better off not to use or install any of these foreign social media apps on your devices.
Kudos to Durov’s handlers; he is particularly well trained and a very bright young guy (unlike Zuck or Jack). And yes, moving to Dubai was his new assignment and a cover story. Nobody forced him out of VK he didn’t own in the first place like Zuck never really owned Facebook.
Supposedly, Telegram is non-profit. So who pays the bills? Electricity, server farms, employees, etc.
Non-profit doesn’t mean they don’t have revenue to pay employees and expenses. It simply means that they don’t produce excess revenue over expenses for profit. To a large extent the term non-profit is mostly meaningless.
A lot of non-profits have excess revenues; a non-profit status means that an organization is organized and being operated for a collective, public, or social benefit, rather than for the purpose of generating profit.
I agree with the notion that Telegram is not about generating profit. Full stop.
Trust me, Durov is not ‘Ms. America.’
There are no electricity bills or server farms. He would contract with Amazon or Azure cloud services to do all that.
Didn’t Amazon boot Parler off their servers causing Parler to fold? Parler was trying to be a free speech platform. Amazon was having none of it.
ArseTwitty here to give his NSA Totalitarian views, hey bud, get a life……you’re in lights here courtesy of management
Long live the Constitution
Which part of what I posted was ‘totalitarian’ in nature?
Forget I asked, I “walk on past the barking dogs.”
Please. Barking dogs also bite, with a target on your back and light shining on your head.
Hey Ace, please state your research or proof. Otherwise this is just conjuecture.
Thanks
Can you imagine the Telegram’s server bills? Again, Telegram is free and has even less ad revenue than Twitter.
Elon had Tesla, SpaceX, and Starink worth billions, and even Elon ended up making a deal with USG to stave off Twitter’s bankruptcy and “pay” for AWS and Google servers on which Twitter was and still is running.
Also, do you believe that the Russian national security agencies would allow a random guy build an equivalent of Facebook, which was VK, without becoming his senior partner? You can’t be serious… You can’t be that stupid either, now can you?
Ace Twittly …
My guess is Telegram is in partnership with UAE until proven otherwise.
Very interested to hear your insights and views from the inside on Russia. Tucker didn’t really do it justice IMHO, and we don’t have reporters anymore, there has been a media blackout on that country and the only people talking about it are biased in some way. Scott Ritter (a convicted sex offender) gives me migraines heaping piles of praise on the Russians and is unreliable at best.
Really??? Seems like he has been extraordinarily reliable when it comes to the Ukrainian conflict. I look forward to your list of major things he has gotten wrong in the conflict.
Calm down there sharky…I was pointing out he sings the praises of Russia (as a country, and government) too often. I think he is deeply biased. I didn’t mention Ukraine, so take it easy.
I agree. If you followed what he said from two years ago to today, he has been generally pretty close.
There are hundreds of Russian or pro-Russian Telegram channels of reporters and news-compilation sites. If you read 6-8 of them daily, plus a few other US conservative news sites including CTH, you can get some idea of what is really going on in the world.
Like I said….looking for unbiased views. I have heard both extreme sides but never anything unbiased from an American that came across balanced. Even Tucker seemed…predisposed to his opinion of the maybe 0.5% of the country he experienced in a few day visit and came off as overly positive.
Agree!
Can’t stand Ritter. What a bloviator!
It seems to me that Tucker’s interviews have become a little milque toast. I miss that hard hitting opinions when at Fox. I have watched many of his podcasts and often have wondered about the “take away”? If you want some Ukraine detail, check out The Duran.
His interviews haven’t changed. His long format interviews where always like this.
His Monologues at FNC were hard hitting and great.
Two separate things.
I don’t do twitter. I just read those posted here. I think maybe the value of Musk is a sort of somewhat cloudy window. People can see thru, maybe not clearly, but maybe curiosity sets in. I think it is much better than before. Maybe he is straddling the fence the best he can.
Elon Musk is after all dependent on subsidies given out by governments and must tread a fine line when criticizing those on the left.He’s a damn site more truthful than most and twitter is better for it.
Elon’s companies gets fewer subsidies than his competitors. Tesla gets no tax incentives for the EVs. Biden just removed $640 million in subsidies for Starlink for rural services. His Falcon flights cost the government millions of dollars less each than the Blue Origin or Delta heavy costs. By the way, all companies try to get whatever they can in handouts, subsidies, tax benefits. But Elon’s companies get less (sometimes much less than his competitors).
We do use X and this is basically what we think.
Today even a cloudy window is useful.
I do take CTH position on him seriously and use it to balance the rather positive view that my husband and I have of SpaceX and his other companies. We do think Elon is pro humanity. We believe he wants to create a better world for his children and to go to Mars because why not? Thankfully I have this forum to remind me that all is not sparkles and sprinkles. I definitely agree that he is still letting the IC use X/Twitter. It appears to me that he is even later to an awakening than Tucker and maybe I just want to see an “awakening” and it’s not really there. And maybe my own awakening is still so new and so painful – it’s only starting to crust over for me – that I read that into my observations. Anyhow, Elon and Tucker both give me some hope at times though not nearly on the same level as President Trump.
And again, how does anyone live in these time without Hope in Christ Jesus?
Very interesting. I believe Musk is a perfect false flag. He could be anti Christ, kind of a savior for Liberals and Conservatives.
We are on a crazy train.
https://worldyturnings.wordpress.com/2024/04/14/mangina/
Don’t think of this contest-of-titans to be binary. There are at least four, if not six players, all jockeying for some kind of world domination/power.
Evil black hats, greedy black hats, good guys, the clueless public, China, and Russia/non-aligned.
And NPCs, but they are just along for the taxation and exploitation. They don’t count.
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I’m confused. The UAE allows him to run a company with unrestricted freedom of speech? Even though they supposedly have some very pro-UAE, pro-Islam restrictive speech laws?
(By the way, is he Muslim?)
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there are enclaves of permissiveness in the Middle East
go on Instagram and watch attractive models posting from luxury Dubai hotels in the sun wearing dental-floss bikinis
Mid-East men like their candy like all men
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How is it that Telegram makes money?
How did this man go from a 100m Russian entrepreneur of VK to somehow worth 15b?
Why does he represent Finland in the WEF?
This is all so sketchy, including apparently standing up to Russia, having Ukraine ties, not apparently worried about his parents’ safety, brother doing what(?), bought himself a Caribbean citizenship while starting up Telegram in Berlin (why there, what’s the connection?)…
This is all so sketchy.
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How did this man go from a 100m Russian entrepreneur of VK to somehow worth 15b?
same way they all do, counsel
using avenues not available to me and you
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Not an answer, guy. Supposedly no equity funding — and if you look up Telegram, it’s supposedly funded by its “founders”which ostensibly is him.
Odd, he claims to own no real estate… where are his servers housed? Those are not assets? And they’re in a rented building in… most vulnerable Dubai?
He claims in the interview to have — what, @150m liquid assets… but he also owns “Gram” cryptocurrency — who is using, where?
He’s in UAE because no taxes or reporting. Got that, but…
He’s got no ascertainable means of income beyond his original VK venture — but has the cash flow to pay millions a month for rented residence in Dubai…
Supposedly he has two kids although not married. Where are they.
Oh, and he has French citizenship now too?
Gee, very comfy flitting arounf the world for someone who professes to just be a computer nerd, and whose genius brother coded the meat-and-potatoes of the software app — but isn’t a co-owner?
When he visited in San Francisco, the FBI et al. visited him and more, but that’s just a “meh”.
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None of this makes sense.
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The IC has and remains a house of mirrors.
Best to always look at what is holding up the mirrors for a glimmer of truth.
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Let’s try to guess whose IC…
Gets into a kerfuffle with Russia over not wanting to snitch on dissidents in Ukraine. That would have been… 2013-14?
Sells his interest in VK and splits the country (leaving his folks? other friends and relatives? his two kids?)
Bounces around the globe setting up and/or moving and resetting up a new company in… Berlin… in Finland?… in the Caribbean… in France(?)… and also makes trips to Silicon Valley with meetups with Jack Dorsey, misc. FBI types, and where he fights off three big men too in a bloody fight… meanwhile also having time to gain multiple citizenships and join WEF…
In a few short years, presumably coding his head off in St. Kitts somehow turns himself into a multi-billionaire who then moves to UAE running a company with no visible means of support or net income…
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A lot about this guy does not seem to make sense.
I pick up a lot of cockiness, a lot of slipperyness. He is obviously very very smart. Intentionally mysterious. It just sets off my suspicious-character alarms.
+1,000 on the Blofeld reference, Escapee
Every tech lord believes he’s God when in fact DARPA still controls the internet.
“Not an answer, guy”
Yeah, sorry Counsel, I was just being glib
You’re deep into analysis on this, pls forgive my jokester asides
👻👻👻 are running scared today, lol.
And all Sundance had to say was… I’m in Russia.
Omg that’s too funny. I need to start me another nickel jar. Everytime a 👻 pops up – plink goes another nickel. 🤣🤣🤣
My Trumpsneedsto jar filled up so quickly I took a nice vacation. 😁
What’s the likelihood that telegram own by UAE.gov and he is only the frontman?
my guess is he is like Musk
a creation of the Russian/USA Deep state who play-acts at being a big entrepreneur and rebel and instead a front man for all kinds of Russia/USA deep state craft
Telegram is clearly a Russian data mining and influence operation.
Get an account and see how weird and fake channels suddenly appear in your lists
impersonation is common and a big problem
its a super dodgy platform
Re: Dubai, et al … When I used to go to London, our company put us up in a nice Mayfair hotel. The desk clerk told me that when Saudis came to town, the hotel would charge them multiples of the highest rate, because the hotel knew that when those guests left, those rooms would be destroyed, and would have to re-done from scratch.
She said the first things the Saudis did were: 1) order up cases of liquor, 2) order up lots of pork dishes from room service, and 3) order up lots of call girls.
By the time they left a week later, the toilets would be stopped up, there would be holes in the walls (from fighting while drunk), and the carpet would be soaked with booze, vomit, and semen. The whole thing would have to be torn up & replaced, the walls patched and painted, the plumbing repaired or replaced.
Such are the followers of Allah.
thx for that first-hand testimonial, Missy
I’ve only seen the Instagram models, I have no deeper insight than that
maybe some of them were the call girls taking time-out at the pool
A smart Hotelier would always book Saudis when you needed to Update your property. They’d essentially pay for the Capex. Would already have supplies & contractors lined up and ready to go a few weeks after.
I worked with a guy who at one time worked for a major UK military-industrial complex company which at the time had many Middle Eastern clients. On one occasion his job one night was to round up girls for the guests. He had a line 10-15 lined up by the door waiting their turn.
Very informative and down to earth. Thanks, Sundance.
What I’ve found is the content remains on Telegram unless a channel cancels… not often but one example, was a channel that had scads of excellent and consistent information on a popular U.S. General. However, after researching, I found the channel had also posted it was reorganizing and would return.
your last photo:
I wish that is what it looked like to get into the United States
if you gnomesayin’
Wow!
My goodness so many new names commenting. It’s like a siren went off and everyone grabbed for their keyboards.
I wonder.who pushed the panic button.
John Brennan & John Bolton did a tag team and got the panic button depressed. lol
Take your pick of the threeeee letters.
This site is right over the target; that’s why it’s attracting so many new flies. The Deep State scum is getting worried the real Truth is getting out and has tasked some clever case officers to park their arses here to confuse, obfuscate, lie, misdirect, bother, etc.
Thankfully, to establish bona fides, they like bragging about their tradecraft knowledge. They are easy to spot and one can amuse oneself with their information and rhetorical giveaways.
Do you want to dive in deeper and understand the scope of the problem? Start with “Gold Warriors” by Sterling Seagrave. That will give you an idea of what is at stake (trillions) and decades of modern power arrangements.
It’s funny how whenever there is a good book recommended here they always seem to be “unavailable” on Amazon.
It is available to read online @ https://archive.org/details/goldwarriors0000seag/mode/1up?q=Gold+Warriors%E2%80%9D+by+Sterling+Seagrave
You need to have an archive.org account and can ‘borrow” the book by the hour if you wish to take a peek at it.
Looks interesting!
Looking forward to reading more about the experiences of bizzaro world and what those can show us about how to prep for when bizzaro unfolds in our hemisphere.
Wondering – does there come a time when so many visits gets a person designated as colluding with whatever deep state says one should not to be colluding with?
I’ve tried before, QR code not recognized by my apple phone. Just tried again, same result.
I’d like to apply that to everything I’ve learned in the last 10, 20 years….not recognizable data….
Go to your app icon and search. Telegram came up on mine.
Note: the reason I use Apple phone is bc of my late husband. Definitely doesn’t mean I will purchase another one.
‘The INVERSION – I call the change in freedom and liberty values West to East an inversion.’ – Sundance
Strange how Russia, in some respects, has become the last bastion of Western values, as we once knew them.
Russia’s diplomacy, via foreign minister Sergey Lavrov, is masterfully, classically grounded in traditional international law, not to mention restraint and proportionality.
Whereas US diplomacy, under ‘Secretary Blinkey,’ is a degenerate, tendentious dog’s breakfast, wholly arbitrary and capricious.
How far we have fallen.
Agreed. No wonder degenerates like Hillary, Schumer, and Nuland leaped at the chance to paint a scarlet R on Trump as soon (or before) he became POTUS. It served a dual purpose for them. Tucker (and Trump) are right; we should be allying with Russia not provoking Her.
Lavrov is one smart cookie.
The US is being run by boobs… Kamala, Blinken, Petey, Granholm, Sullivan, ad nauseum.
So, are they all Jack’s Magic Coffee shops?
At this point I assume so.
The internet was a creation of the U.S. government. It was opened to the public and the public seized it gladly, but…
It is also an immense data gathering operation on everybody and everything that is posted there.
The data is gathered and analyzed by competing governments.
There is no privacy on the internet and no privacy on cellphones, and if push comes to shove, no privacy on landlines either (warrants be damned) ATT will do whatever Uncle Sam asks it to do.
The infrastructure for 1984 is here.
The Native American Indians got it right. Smoke signals are not collectible.
And with an added plus…… it drives the Lefty loony green new dealies absolutely crazy.
And the fire is good for cooking dinner… 😀
And keeps the teepee warm when a storm knocks the power lines down 🙂
or the wind farms freeze up
One sec there. Sundance is in Russia?!
well, he’s a freedom-loving guy
Russia is not a free country.
Sounds as though Russia is more free than the USA today.
Probably buying his condo….and I’m totally spitballing here, but maybe visiting Snowden…..😎
That’s whom I’m hoping to hear is being visited.
We can only hope.
Be awesome if SD ran into Mr. Snowden and had a private conversation.
So many questions….so little time.
Just joined
welcome, Humphrey
So Elon’s seemingly rightward shift is just a ruse to get more data on conservatives to the Intel agencies?
What are the 30 pieces of silver Elon has accepted in return for this level of deceit? SpaceX contracts? China access?
“where is this conversation from Elon Musk? Where is Musk discussing the government contacts and intentions of the intelligence apparatus, FBI, DHS and various Intelligence Community institutions toward the Twitter platform.”
So I would say that Musk is completely screwed already. Virtually every company he owns is based in the US. He cannot extricate himself from it – he’s stuck here. He didn’t get out to a free & neutral country like Durov did. So Musk is financially handcuffed to a large degree.
I remember reading here that Twitter was excessively expensive to run and required intelligence agency $ (our taxes) to keep it running. I remember a prediction that Musk would burn so much money running it that it would go bankrupt quickly. It hasn’t. It could be that the intelligence agencies have strong armed him and are still involved and funding it as well, but I’d like to think that is not the case – especially given all the conservative posts not being taken down and the outright blasting of the big pharma, big government, corporate capitalism, the democratic party, the vax, the WEF, etc. etc. etc. that does NOT exist on any other US based social media product.
This guy Durov is running a cash intensive business similar to X / twitter. He is surviving just fine. He has a tiny staff (Musk cut his staff back significantly) and if I remember correctly, the cost to maintain the data and the ever growingly larger volume of such enormous data was the main reason for the massive cost. Well, they’re both still alive and doing quite well I might add.
Neither of these guys Musk or Durov businesses have gone bankrupt.
I’m not convinced Musk is on the bad guys side at all. I believe his politics have evolved and he is becoming concerned for the people of this country, himself and the future of the United States and he is becoming more of a patriot all the time.
Just like Massie and MTG he is probably being squeezed by the Blob, but I’d like to believe he is trying to fight back. I’m not convinced he is with the bad guys yet. Keeping my eyes open but not convinced.
Funny,..it occurred to me last year that the torch of western civilization liberty, the one passed down from
the Greeks, thru the Romans, etc.. is now being passed picked up by countries like Hungry & Russia.
Never thought I’d have cause to say that, even THINK it, but there it is.
That Narrative to include the Tyranny of Digital Currency among others.
Sundance has often pointed out the inversion of Obama/Holder taking the pre-existing Patriot Act Surveillance State, and turning it back on domestic political enemies, i.e.; patriots. I’ve described it as taking every institution we built to protect our liberties, weaponizing them and pointing them back at citizens like a loaded gun.
Once we overthrew Communists and Islamists, but under Obama/Holder/Brennan, we began propping up those regimes instead, rescuing them and even installing them. We even brought back a Nazi Regime to Europe. Inversion.
And when it became clear that Democrats could no longer win Honest Elections, they began subverting the People, overthrowing America and targeting Americans like they were hostile foreigners, which is the FISA story. Inversion.
Mike Benz explains it in detail to Tucker here:
Mike Benz Gives Background Context on Internet Censorship Programs.
Basically, Benz explains to Tucker how Obama changed the definition of “Democracy”, just like “Vaccine”, “Immunity” and other medical definitions were changed to facilitate the Genetic Genocide Jabs.
When they say “Democracy” now, they don’t mean a political system. They mean themselves. They ARE Democracy, not the People. Not you. And certainly not a Populist President winning re-re-election in another massive landslide and governing for the benefit of everyday Americans. Madness! Inversion!
No, those are the old hallmarks of democracies. The new hallmarks are unaccountable bureaucracies designed to keep Multi-National Fascist Oligarchs rich and permanently in power. They think they can censor, infect, jab, impoverish, invade, overthrow, terrorize, bribe and blackmail their way into a Forever Regime of Me and My Entitled Trillionaire Pals.
Inversion.
Here’s his X feed, with more excellent videos:
@MikeBenzCyber:
ps; Trillions in Shale Oil beneath Donbass–one more reason our Fascist Oligarchy won’t let their Criminal Disneyland in Ukraine go.
former CIA officer Sam Faddis:
Your Government Hates You – Then Again It’s Not Really Your Government Anymore
(substack.com):
Inversion.
I thought it was funny that a former CIA officer sounds like a Communist Revolutionary.
Then I remembered John Brennan.
Mr. Faddis doesn’t say it, but I will; this Economic Carnage WAS DONE ON PURPOSE.
That’s because pre-planned poverty is yet another way to degrade peoples’ lives in order to kill them. Solitary, poor, nasty, brutish and short. Cold and hungry, too.
The Great Reset Death Cult has decided there are about 7 Billion too many humans on the planet and they come to kill. steal and destroy like their father the devil.
But they will not win. Even now their walls are crumbling, their citadels are shaking and the smoke is rising. This is Our Father’s Inversion, a Great Wealth Transfer for His Children and His Great Harvest Reset for America and the world. Hallelujah!
James 5:
1 Come now, you rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. 2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. 3 Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have stored up treasures for the last days. 4 Indeed the wages that you kept back by fraud from the laborers who harvested your fields are crying, and the cries of those who harvested have entered into the ears of the Lord of Hosts. 5 You have lived in pleasure on the earth and have been wayward. You have nourished your hearts as in a day of slaughter. 6 You have condemned and killed the righteous man who does not resist you.
7 Therefore be patient, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. Notice how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth and is patient with it until he receives the early and late rain. 8 You also be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is drawing near.
Yes and Amen, Lord Jesus!
Rest in the Vine: The Official Version(tm) of the Inversion Subversion Submersion
Awesome post, Gipper. Benz and Faddis are good men.
Benz is an explainer, an educator, and, I believe, a strategist behind the scenes. Faddis is a man who deeply loves his country, has a broken heart, and will go down fighting.
We are blessed to have them.
And you, too, Missy!
>> Now, we ask ourselves: why have we never heard Twitter owner/operator Elon Musk talking about this issue.
Well, first of all Elon Musk lives in the US, not Dubai; and second Elon has major contracts (i.e., relationships) with the US in the form of space X, and a major company called Tesla, also in the US.
You forgot Starsheild / Starlink
https://www.reuters.com/technology/space/musks-spacex-is-building-spy-satellite-network-us-intelligence-agency-sources-2024-03-16/
Wow, I almost got fooled into celebrating this guy as some beacon of free speech. A commenter before me mentioned those three deadly letters that are associated with our boy genius Pavel… W E F. Yep, it’s true. Durov is a Young Global Leader from the WEF. NOTHING good comes from the WEF. And EVERYTHING that comes out of the WEF is the antithesis of freedom.
When it comes to freedom we already got all we need here in the United States. The Constitution was a masterful document that ensures us our freedoms. THAT is what needs to be defended. The fact that we are not doing that actually makes Russia look like Freedomville 🤣😂😆
moreJUAN…: The website, swprs dot org (page updated January 2024), says Pavel was listed as a Young Global Leader on the WEF website in 2017, but is not listed anymore, or declined listing. Buyer beware.
WEF is as globalist as it gets. To become a Young Global Leader you must attend seminars and go through a program. They don’t just give those away like candy. Likely a lot of this guys funding came from the WEF I bet. But anyway, if you want to trust him go for it. I am taking the less popular position here on this one. I get it.
moreJuan…: I am agreeing with you, not disagreeing. I simply cited the swprs dot org web page as a reference to Pavel’s previous WEF listing. I find no more reason to “trust” Telegram than I do any other similar social platform.
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When things don’t add up, drives me nuts.
He has claimed ties or citizenship in: Italy, Russia, Ukraine, Germany, France, St. Kitts (UK too?), and UAE, and specifically not the U.S.
But represented FINLAND in the WEF? How does that work?
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outhouse: Doesn’t everyone have ties to St. Kitts?
One thing often overlooked is how much the wicked inside government MUST rely on the brightest among us.
The scoundrels have their web of deceit but they are not smart enough to make everything work. They hang around really brilliant young people who DO know how the stuff works and try to capture them.
The Ed Snowden story is confirmation that the evil ones are crippled if smart young people don’t play along.
I had also read along the way that the WEF often listed certain people as “Young Leaders” ahead of actually inviting them, or training them, in the hopes that they would be so flattered that they could be captured.
Can’t remember where I read it.
Valerie Jarrett liked to say the obama regime had “captured” or wanted to capture someone who represented their ideology. Van Johnson was one such person about which she said she wanted to “capture all that” and use that person to their advantage. I remember her comment because it sounded so totalitarian. Just the whole captured thing was so disgusting the way she bragged about it. UGH!
It makes sense. I see all the time that just a mention of someone being listed as a WEF Young Leader is enough to “take them down.” How convenient. I still don’t know about Vivek but I do know that is one of the biggest sticks used to beat him.
I have used Telegram on a limited basis for several years now. I find a lot of what I feel is uncensored information there. As for the encryption, I cannot attest to the privacy, since I use it here in the ussa mainly. At this point, I think privacy has been lost in most (if not all) apps that are available. So I accept the “use at your own risk” risk.
Possibly connected…
https://archive.is/jTwcm
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So is everything done on Telegram essentially going through a foreign country, and someone’s “cloud”, and thus open season?
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A “cloud” is nothing more than another name for something which has existed for some time – a collection of processors and data storage devices in a central location connected to the internet and available for lease/rent. One of the most well known ones is Amazon’s AWS (which is used heavily by various government agencies btw). Their big “claim to fame” is that they allow relative easy dynamic scaling of services so businesses don’t have to worry about outgrowing their processing and storage capabilities. Many offer near real time scaling based upon current load demands (say an online business’ “busy hours” vs “barely any business” hours).
The dots may indeed be connected. To my knowledge, Telegram does NOT own their own servers. The question becomes, where do they reside and who owns them?
Depending upon the exact wording of the sections in question, it could apply to ANY such system – be it Amazon’s, Meta’s, Gulag’s, IBM’s, Microsoft’s, or even private ones like those owned by Gab. Even if it didn’t, considering the current trajectory of governments, they would twist it to do so. It would also mean any data or processing done on such a cloud based system or transiting one would be at risk, further expanding their unconstitutional reach – and control.
Then there is the big push towards what is passed off as “AI” based computing – which will predominately operate on systems that could be classified as “clouds.” The term I’m thinking of in this case is, “preparing the ground.”
Everywhere one turns in which God’s light shines not, darkness is spreading at an ever growing rate – yet most continue to do naught.
One other question – why did the NYT write the article? (Consider their benefactor)
The FILTHY COMMIES have completed Skynet: This is scary.
We are almost at the point where they lock us into their Matrix.
Yes, it’s the same for IBM, Intel, Microsoft, Apple. Every tech company for decades.. Likely every computer you’ve ever owned or operated is backdoored.
Anyone remember Spectre/Meltdown?
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Of course it is. Are you connected to internet or cell… get updates?
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SD, thank you for this article. I’m gonna have to chew on this for a while.
I would have never thought the UAE is more about freedom than the USA. Holy mackerel.
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It’s not. But it has no taxes or reporting, so financial activities are masked from oversight that way.
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Both ominous, and eye opening. We have the most draconian government on the planet.
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The UAE does not do oil. It’s wealth comes from…?
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Infrastructure, Tourism, and “Free Zones.”
Interesting interview, and impressive young man.
Only … you can’t claim to provide a “neutral platform” when YOU CENSOR THOSE who might be the next Founding Fathers. GFY.
“Let me see your papers.“
Remember we are in the times where the truth will become lies and lies the truth. Never more so in history than now!
‘I don’t own anything” he’s the poster boy for WEF.
Technocrats believe they are the smartest people ever and everybody else not so much. Sorry, I will never ever pur faith in a technocrat. Their agenda is to replace, take control of all real estate and cram everybody into a ‘smart city’. That is if you are lucky enough to be one of the 500 million left on earth. I loathe being played by Technocrats Saying he can’t be bothered to think about owning anything is a real tip off
Re: Elon Musk. My feeling is you take what you can get. If Elon provides a centrist view, that is something we get nowhere else. Many people/commenters pile on Elon. They hit him for Tesla stock, for Starship launch issues, law fare for the Boca Chica property and launch licenses there, Vandenberg AFB launches, not hiring immigrants (legally cannot), being homophobic, Islamophobic, not providing free Starlink to Ukraine, then having Starlink get into Russian hands, rampant sexism, bad parenting et al. There never is a perfectly acceptable large player, but he provides a balance in my mind. If you look at the law fare going after PDJT, and then compare it to what is going on with Elon Musk, you just might see some similarities. He walks a tightrope and is hated by the left (good for us), and disliked by us because he is not right enough or he makes pragmatic decisions regarding his businesses (which we throw shade at him for). Even our most righteous right get the shade at this site. I’ll take what Elon Musk can give.
Plink.
Regarding Elon Musk, Tucker Carlson in an interview with Alex Jones stated: “This” (meaning the Tucker Carlson Network) “is being powered by X.”
“Telegram is an excellent tool for safe communication…”
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2024/04/17/tucker-carlson-interviews-telegram-ceo-and-founder-pavel-durov/comment-page-2/#comment-10726880
The big difference is Pavel isn’t living and operating his business from the US, smart move by him. And he is not taking government subsidies for his businesses like Musk does.
The picture at the end of this article, what are those and anyone know where they are? They seem to be passport “booths” of some sort? I ask because the last few places I have traveled (cruises) they have attempted to make me go through the biometric/scanning machines. I have refused and asked for a CPB officer who simply looked at my passport and waved me through. My real worry and concern is that at some point getting into the US you will be REQUIRED to be scanned which I refuse to do. Yes they track us everywhere but I refuse to give my biometric data to the machine that is the US gov’t…
Interesting guy, Pavel Durov, with a very compelling story. I would like to believe him, but I cannot help but wonder who he actually works for?
The places he listed, London, Munich, San Fransisco and now Dubai all represent governments of the UK, Germany, USA and now the Middle East, resepectively. Who paid him more? Did Dubai finally make an offer, so now the IC in Dubai will have access and use that platform to their advantage?
An application on your phone which is secure and private is compelling. I especially dislike the idea of a dirty little bureaucrat reading my private messages to my wife or loved ones because he can. It is not because I am hiding anything, but it is because they are to that person and are private. Because of that, I would look at Telegram, but I have my doubts. Government actors can do anything they like (see, for example, Comey, Clapper, Brennan, Clinton, etc.) then lie about it under the nonsensical “national security” blanket which covers up their incompetence and deliberate illegal behavior.
I hope this is not a grift, but facebook, google and twitter seemed legit, too.
“Pavel refused to participate….”
SD I agree with you on Elon Musk. People need to examine his family history. His grandfather lived in Canada in the 1930s when he became a leader in the Technocracy movement. The government of Canada rightly forced him to leave, so he went to South Africa, where he could have more freedom to pursue his Technocracy beliefs. This is where Elon comes from. He’s a pure Technocrat, the theory of which is that governments should consist of scientific “experts” who govern the little people. And instead of money, the unit of trade is based on energy credits. Yes, this crap has been around since at least the 1930s.
It all boils down to this…..
2006 Joint Chiefs of Staff “Information Operations”:
To succeed, it is necessary for US forces to gain and maintain information superiority.
https://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/policy/dod/joint/jp3_13_2006.pdf
Al Jazeera has an excellent article about how the USG controlled the propaganda in the US during the Iraqi war which enabled the govt. to conduct the war with the public’s support. The publication posted above came out three years after the Iraqi invasion started. This goes a long way to explaining why the USG is out to get rid of Tiktok and Telegram, because the USG cannot control them. Along the lines of what SD said, notice how the USG isn’t targeting X for elimination.
https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/3/20/the-difficult-truth-us-propaganda-has-won-iraqs-battlespace
I’ve only watched 1/2 of this video (which is very interesting to hear), but I stopped at the discussion on how Apple/Google apparently applied pressure to Telegram with threats to remove their app from their “stores”.
As a Google refusenik, this resonated with me and is a glaring example of the monopoly those companies have on user apps for phones. If I need a phone app, I go to apkpure.net, which does not require a userid or membership to get .apk apps.
There are probably very few people like me who DON’T get their apps from either Apple or Google.
I avoid Google where/when ever I can, and do not have an account with them.
…now back to finish that interview.
Thank you for the information.
Pavel Durov was a Young Global Leader with the World Economic Forum in 2017.
Just when you thought it was safe to dip your toe and support one of the tech wizards.
Rumble version:
https://rumble.com/v4putan-telegram-creator-on-elon-musk-resisting-fbi-attacks-and-getting-mugged-in-c.html
I wonder if this interview has anything to do with the deluge in Dubai and UAE?
It’s called cloud seeding or geoengineering, I believe…