An interesting story promoted by Rebel News, highlights the plight of an Amish farmer who operates a private market club for his products. Because his crops, dairy and beef are not sold to the ‘general public,’ and only to those who are members of the private food club, Amos Miller contends he should not be subject to USDA regulations.
Miller’s organic farm operates on century old farming practices. His farm uses no electricity, no tractors, no diesel, no gasoline, and he produces exceptional all natural yields which people are willing to pay top dollar to purchase.
Additionally, because Mr. Miller doesn’t use chemical fertilizer or fuel, his farm has not been impacted by the increased costs that have hit industrial farms. He and his customers are completely unaffected by outside influence.
However, a federal judge ruled that despite his closed members-only market, he must have USDA inspectors for his beef and cattle slaughter processes. Miller does not want to use the regulated and required pharmaceutical antibiotics, and other regulatory processes required by the USDA. He now faces jail time and a $300,000 fine. [Rebel News Article]
While CTH is completely on the side of the Miller farm, it’s not fair to share this story without providing the alternative perspective from the side of the regulatory agencies.
(Via Lancaster Online) – […] “The United States submits that Mr. Miller’s continuing recalcitrance and flouting of the court’s orders requires a robust, more-coercive civil contempt sanction than previously imposed,” government attorneys wrote in its request filed in late July. “Specifically … the court should order him to be incarcerated until he has paid these sums that are long overdue.”
U.S. District Judge Edward G. Smith scheduled a hearing for Sept. 26 at the federal courthouse in Easton for Miller to show why he should not be jailed.
And the government wants Miller’s wife, Rebecca Miller, added as a defendant in the case because she is a co-owner of Miller’s Organic Farm. That will also be addressed at the hearing.
Miller — who has an attorney, but has been filing paperwork on his own — filed a response on Aug. 5 suggesting Smith and the government are “working in concert” in supposedly violating his rights. The filing seeks a stay of the proceedings and indicates Miller plans to appeal issues in which he contends the judge is wrong.
[…] Miller first came to the attention of federal authorities in 2016, when the Food and Drug Administration said it identified Listeria in samples of Miller’s raw milk; the agency found the Listeria to be genetically similar to the bacteria found in two people who developed listeriosis — one of whom died — after consuming raw milk.. (read more)
It’s an interesting issue, specifically interesting because the members of the private food club are in a hold-harmless relationship with the Miller farm.
What do you think?
Interesting. How did mankind eat before government bureaucrats arrived on the scene?
We ate very well….and rarely ill…not fat either…
Very well, and as I posted elsewhere on this thread, when people ate traditional diets (raw milk, raw butter, fermented vegetables, etc.) their teeth were much healthier, as in no tooth decay and no dental crowding. Dr. Weston A. Price was a dentist who looked into this years ago. He was disturbed that so many of his patients had poor dental health (cavities and dental crowding) and ended up traveling the world and doing research on this. He found that primitive people who ate traditional foods had perfect teeth (no cavities, perfectly formed mouths with room for all their teeth and no crowding, so no need for braces). He wrote up his findings with photos in his book:
https://archive.org/details/NutritionAndPhysicalDegeneration/mode/2up (the photos are quite fascinating–you can see primitive people who eat traditional foods and have mouths of perfect teeth and no need for dentists)
And the Weston A. Price Foundation continues to promote his work (they were also very good on the covid operation)
https://www.westonaprice.org/#gsc.tab=0
Better.
Do you know how Jane Austen died, to name but one historical example?
Ever downed a meal in Kathmandu? Or a Mexican beanery?
What the USDA requires is disgusting. Why do we need to eat antibiotics?
There’s more to the story. I’m pretty sure they don’t require antibiotics. I posted a link to an article and some excerpts, please read them. The USDA wanted him to use citric acid, that’s a naturally-occurring substance, not antibiotics.
Leave him alone. Why does he need to use anything? Natural or not. Get out of our lives and leave this man alone.
Oh, please!
He didn’t KILL anyone.
You might want to hire a lawyer because what you just posted is defamation.
And you did it carelessly and very publicly.
The case involved similar DNA milk but didn’t conclusively prove it was milk from his farm, did it?
Could they prove it was sold contaminated?
How many people admit they drink milk straight from the bottle?
When i order at a restaurant, i order a doggie bag and divide my portions before eating using my utensils.
The above seems to be a live-wire. Listeria can come from various places.
It’s also something that most people fight off without even realizing they were exposed to it.
You are not an epidemiologist. If he was delivering bad milk, there would have been more people sick.
They guessed that it was his milk. An educated guess, but a guess all the same. They checked the DNA of the listeria that caused the deaths of two people in 2014. Then in late 2015 they found listeria in his milk and tested the DNA. The two DNAs were considered similar enough to say it was probably his milk.
But what standards were used? How similar is similar enough?
As for the listeria itself. I’m remembering other cases (from different farms) where the FDA confiscated raw milk then waited weeks before testing for bacteria. I wouldn’t put it past them to have done the same to Miller.
KILLED ‘em, I tell ya!
It was premeditated un-homogenized homicide!!!
We demand Justice for the Moo Juice Murderer!!!!!
🤣😆😂
Give it a rest, Serena
That is what is probably killing us. Plus Marek’s disease. The vaccination made all healthy chickens become vulnerable.
We might be facing the same with Bill Gates.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/science/tthis-chicken-vaccine-makes-virus-dangerous
If I said what I think, Sundance would throw me of here!
We are in the process to the end time, what that mean I do not know. Maybe it just means the end of time, time itself ends. If there is no time, God has removed sin from our world and universe and we begin to live our best lives. Only thing to do now, is keep fighting.
God has not “removed” sin from the world, Loren. If He had we wouldn’t have conflict. The problem with the world is that God left us with free will and He only asks that we love Him and treat our neighbor as we want to be treated. But avarice, hubris and arrogance are still with us.
The word is ‘Yet’, he has not removed sin yet! There will be a time in the future when he does.
When I read the bible, I like to do thought experiments on what I just read. In many chapters and Revelations in particular, you see the end of this madness caused by sin. Scientist say, the universe cannot return to exactly the same state in which it was at an earlier point. Time cannot move backwards. They do not believe in the existence of God. But.
The Bible says, in the (end times), God renews the earth and the universe. When God made the heavens and the earth, he said it was good, perfection and no sin. Scientist are wrong! God reverses time to what he created in the first place and I will say with added perfections included. All sin everywhere will be eliminated. Then we begin to live our best lives minus sin.
Scientist know nothing, absolutely nothing! I read this article on the James Webb Telescope. It make you think.
Do James Webb Telescope Images Disprove The Big Bang Theory? | Principia Scientific Intl. (principia-scientific.com)
There should be inspections by regulatory agencies. Otherwise you may wind up with first class imbeciles selling meat that is contaminated. I highly doubt this guy is but you know the slippery slope.
Neither really concern me. What does however is our government getting between these farmers supply chains along with their customers. All of you must understand if food gets short the government is going to step in and demand farmers only sell to them or approved vendors. Unfortunately most farmers will tow the line as the money is limitless.
People say go local now. That’s only one piece of the puzzle. You damn well better be ready to fend off the unwanted in the near future. Just my take.
Hmmmm….
I do recall a lot of ecoli, salmonella outbreaks ..people dying and getting ill.
And the statewide…warnings issued.
Everything from spinach to hamburger.
That was sold in our grocery stores.
And “INSPECTED”.
Private grocery stores HAVE liability! But the government shields them, so we look to the government. More people have been killed and injured by government approved drugs than ANY farmer ever did.
That’s why I said a little regulation isn’t bad. Still my concern as I stare into the future isn’t something we know here in the land of the plenty. Ukraine, Russia, Holland, food processing plants, etc.
Heard a money guy I listen to suggest maybe it would be a good idea if Americans and/Europeans go on a diet more aligned with Keto. I’m on that kinda diet. What the hell am I going to eat when everyone that ate pizzas get hungry and make a mad dash for my diet food 😂
The crisis is looming indeed. To quote SD I have no clue what it looks like either. We are going to find out by this winter I guess or maybe spring. Guess I keep moving the timeline back. That’s ok I hope I am wrong. So far I have been.
A good time to read up on the holodomor.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor
And given the global climate change fraud, it’s a good time to read up on the Lysenko fraud.
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Trofim-Lysenko
Short articles, by the way.
Shouldn’t someone in a hold harmless agreement in a private club be allowed to take their own risk of contaminated meat? We don’t jail and fine homeless for eating out of trash cans. People eat deer roadkill, for Pete’s sake. I personally make a choice to have the food I buy be regulated by government, because I know nothing about meat except it’s yummy. Why shouldn’t an individual be allowed to take their own risk in this instance, so long as the seller is being upfront and honest about what he is selling?
the ‘government’ requires that WE ALL have a “hold harmless” agreement with Pfizer and moderna vaccines. And unlike this farmer’s customers, we do not have a choice, but are forced and coerced to take the known-to-be-dangerous vaccines.
Very good point.
Excellent! Tell (K)Serena up top! Tiring!
and the DOJ or any judge are not asking pfizer and moderna why they should not be in jail and fined, if any of their ‘forced customers’ are injured or killed.
Thanks fKARENa Serena!
Be growing your own food and learn to forage!
No, it’s a matter of proven trust in the quality of the farmer.
If you buy from “first class imbeciles selling meat that is contaminated” that’s your problem.
How many foods are inspected daily in this nation, and how many recalls are made because of contaminated food? Food that somehow passed inspection?
Then you go buy from inspected meat sellers, and get your nose out of other people’s business.
Now why am I not surprised YOU would take this position?
You have become as reliable as the msm, and make a good reverse barometer.
Troll, INC.
As we speak, there’s a man giving another man monkeypox. When can we start mandating inspections of man dates?
LOL!!!
Another good point.
Inspection is one thing, injections another.
Why did the gubmint go after this man years ago?
Time for bed.
Inspections and regulatory agencies for those who want it. Doing your own research for those who want that.
When you buy directly from the farm, you can judge based on: how transparent the farm is (and what you see when you look); the farms reputation (more on that later); and, if you know the farmer personally, there’s that, too.
As for the farms reputation. When you sell directly to the consumer, you can’t make people sick and get away with it. People will know it was your farm. Having a good reputation requires having a good track record.
But farms selling to grocery stores can make people sick and not get caught. So it makes more sense to want the food to be inspected if I’m buying from the grocery store.
This very same “system” is utilized abundantly all across the country ! I purchase goods here in North Arkansas the same way. Its duplicated virtually throughout America’s heartland. I can assume from here on, all will eventually be targeted for support for terrorism…
I say the Government needs to get the heck outta our lives. We should all support this farm and others like it.
Government has, and always will have a presence in our lives. It’s nice to know that I can purchase meat that comes from a clean slaughterhouse and not some disgusting third world type shit hole. It’s also important to not put all my faith in a government bureaucracy in trusting them to have the sole ability to keep the slaughterhouses clean. While it might come as a surprise to some, it’s common to have farms that produce a quality product without the need for government supervision. It also might be a surprise to some as to the level of graft and corruption that exists within our government.
It all comes down to choice. Do I or do I not have the right to choose sources of my food supply. I will be taking risks with all my choices in life. Do I have freedom of choice?
Seems like this should fall under “freedom of religion” and “freedom of choice”. The farmer does not use modern farming methods and chemicals because it gives against his religious beliefs! Buying “inspected” meat from the grocery store doesn’t really help when you see it setting around unrefrigerated, produce rolling across the floor being picked up and placed back on the shelf, people with unwashed hands, and children, handling and picking through the produce, etc, etc.
Cliven Bundy in Amish Country. Over reach again by the federal government ruining a farmer because he wants to be organic. We are seeing the inanity of the progressives and their tyranny. FJB!
Many organic processes have better outcomes than the USDA industrial model. Well managed animals are healthier than those that count on antibiotics to make up for lax cleanliness and good husbandry.
Sooooooo, my wife grows some herbs and specialty vegatables, we eat them, so far we are not worth the interstate commerce clause trouble. BUT, if she just happens to share these, now where do we stand?
Just wait till the IRS new agents come online, and they try to eliminate cash.
I drank his raw milk for years with no problems I knew the risks going in. How many people have glyphosate killed
None. Junk UN science hasn’t proven a single human death from RoundUp
And ignorant jury decisions haven’t proven a single human death either
I’ve been drinking raw milk for years with no problem.
How many recalls for tainted or spoiled products have been announced that were from USDA inspected facilities during the last year?
How does this compare to Mr, Millers operation?
Three words: bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE), otherwise known as Mad Cow disease.
When this disease struck the bovine community about 20 years ago you did not hear of its presence on Amish farms.
There is risk in all raw foods. How many have died from contaminated meat sold in grocery stores? Lettuce? Restaurants?
Sorry … but for all its flaws … I’ll still take the FDA protecting our food supply over a total free for all.
I don’t think anyone here is calling for abolishing the FDA. The issue here is choice, and the freedom to make informed decisions.
A good point, but how do you define “informed decision”?
We don’t have to choose between A) Everyone can only ever buy food if it was inspected by the FDA, and B) No one can ever buy food that was inspected by the FDA.
How does this sound? Food can be sold with or without a license. Selling with a license comes with benefits, but the benefit cannot be that the government will refrain from harassing you. That should be a given.
The benefit should be that the inspecting agency is trusted, so people will trust your product without having to do their own research.
But some prefer to do their own research; and some farmers prefer to sell to people who do their own research. That should also be an option.
And speaking of inspections. Let’s keep the FDA out of it unless it crosses State lines or is imported. And State regulations should apply only if it crosses county lines.
Ever been to an Amish farm, Kenji?
It is not run as haphazardly as your comment suggests.
If he lived in my area I would be gratefully buying his food.
[deleted]
I read 4000 members in his club and he ships to several states around the Midwest
How’s about you just stop your inane arguments and leave us all alone!
It would seem he has a just case and sound arguments. I doubt he has broken a law, he is in violation of a regulation.
I hope he prevails however I am doubtful.
This puzzles me. I buy my pork and beef in the Dakotas from Hutterite and Amish colonies, and they are not being persecuted by the USDA for their failure to add antibiotics. Is there something else going on here?
Are you a farmer?
Know anything about cows?
Any experience?
I didn’t think so….
Big Whoop!!!
… and your issue with the comment? I’m open minded … but you need to sway me … not shrug at bonefides.
What do you have against this guy?? Its obviously personal!
Thanks, Karen. I’ve read your listeria at least 3 times.
It should be buyer beware, as they seem to be.
Leave the Millers alone.
Goodbye troll!
Next they will go for people with backyard chickens giving away the extras at church.
So, maybe the evidence can be eaten…
Yardbird happens,put the chicken in the pot.
Indeed!
TBH … I’ll steer clear of poorly raised, diseased, backyard chickens.
Careful, Kenji. Your comments here may enroll you in the CTH troll club.
Yeah … I’ll admit, this organic Uber alles virulently hostile anti-government thread has got me me uncomfortable. Ya know … there are some good and necessary things the government SHOULD do. Just not to excess. Government should leave the kids corner lemonade stand the hell alone … but should make some rules and regulations to keep random actors from poisoning the population. We do NEED traffic signals and laws … same with keeping our food supply safe.
i believe it is a matter of degree. Which should be spiritedly debated. But … calling me a troll diminishes you … not me.
I buy a half of a steer every now and then each year.
I like beef. Grass raised.
Never had a problem. If I get sick and die, well, thats my problem isn’t it?
Butt out.
Like I said. Butt out.
Thank YOU!!!!
My pleasure.
Ditto!!!
Nice non-response to the possibility of not just YOU … but your extended family falling ill
When we die, you can dance around our graves singing ” alleluia “.
fk a serena
Yada yada yada….you’ve got a big chip on your shoulder. What happened to personal responsibility? I think you’ve parroted your talking points several times, just leave us bee.
I think this topic has exposed the trolls better than any previously.
And this happens with FDA “approved” products as well. Does the govt pick up the tab of those hospitalized and deceased from Ecole, listeria, mad cow and a host of other filthy diseases, that “slipped” through the process? Your trust of the FDA is scary. Have you looked at how many FDA approved drugs have been recalled for causing cancer in the last, say, 20 yrs? If not, you should. The FDA is corrupt and money driven, just like big pharma.
You appear to be having the vapors. Take 2 asprins, lie down and give it a rest.
When I was a kid, my dad bought quarter steers and half lambs at The Roseville Auction outside Sacramento. Loved it. But I am certain there were still Health Department regulations for how the meat was stored, aged, and butchered. Nope, we never got sick
You’d think the climate change loons would love this guy. No gasoline used in his farming……he’s saving the planet!
Yes, you’d think so, but no. His independence and lack of fealty to government mandates cannot be allowed to stand. He threatens their totalitarian authority.
God bless and protect him.
His independence and lack of fealty to government mandates………………..
Thank you. You have this issue, in its entirety, condensed to a few simple words.
But he’s not selling bugs!!!!!!!!!!!
Or ALMOND MILK OR
COCONUT MILK…..
See the difference?
He is a TARGET!!!
Hold it. If I am not mistaken he probably sells a wet bottom Shoo-Fly Pie, so there!
Saved!
LOL!!! Right you are!!!
What do you think?
Freedom.
And THAT’S exactly why he must be ruined..
So…he tells them it’s raw milk. That’s truth in advertising. The rest is on them.
The cartel tells you it’s fentanyl… meh … so the dosage was juiced in a couple candy- colored tablets …
And how many people died from the foods inspected by the govt contaminated with who knows what? And I haven’t seen you saying one peep about that but instead you keep bringing up one person who might have died because of who knows what.
1 person out of 2000? Don’t drink raw milk if you don’t trust it.
I was raised on it. Skimmed the cream, made butter and called it good.
You keep saying he killed a person. Any other argument? You keep repeating it so I guess the answer is no.
It wasn’t proven that he killed anyone. According to the lawsuit against him, his milk was the likely source.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edpa/pr/civil-lawsuit-filed-enjoin-local-farm-s-continuing-misbranding-meatpoultry-products-and
So they say. They tested the DNA of the listeria that killed two people. Said it was similar to DNA of listeria found in his milk. It was someone’s subjective opinion that the two DNAs were similar enough to blame him for it.
As for the listeria in his milk, I’d like to know how they handled the milk after confiscating it. Was it properly refrigerated while being transported to the lab? How long did they wait before testing?
Typical Fascism. Government doesn’t own the farm. However, they control the entire operation through regulation. There are, of course, fees and permits and other taxes they use to extort and deprive freemen of their substance. All of the benefits and none of the liabilities. (I see, said the blind man.)
I’m just trying to resolve the issue of jurisdiction. How on earth do governments and regulatory agencies simply claim jurisdiction and control of the property of anyone ? There doesn’t appear to be any evidence of Miller agreeing to be a subject of the administrative bureaucracy. “Nevertheless, he is your king.” Is that how it works?
Name it and claim it?
Like the $2.00 county tax on your satellite or cable company? per month?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/deadly-listeria-outbreak-linked-to-raw-milk/
Health officials say a deadly outbreak of listeria has been linked to raw milk from an organic farm in Pennsylvania.
The illnesses happened in 2014 but it took investigators until now to determine the cause. Two patients got sick from the bacteria, one in California and one in Florida, and the patient in Florida died.
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported Friday that the outbreak had been traced to unpasteurized raw milk produced by Miller’s Organic Farm in Bird-In-Hand, Pennsylvania.
In January, the FDA found listeria in samples of raw chocolate milk produced by the same company, and said genetic testing confirmed it was closely related to the strain that sent the two patients to the hospital in 2014.
Amos Miller, the owner of Miller’s Organic Farm, said the company operates as a private membership club and only supplies milk and other farm-grown products to members. It does not distribute to retail stores or other outlets. For that reason, Philly.com reports the farm is not licensed or inspected by state agriculture officials.
Miller told CBS News on Friday that the company is still selling raw milk and was not aware of any health problems. “I don’t know that it was proved it’s on the farm here,” he said. “We hope and pray for the best.”
Public health officials have long advised people not to drink raw milk or consume other unpasteurized dairy products because of the risk that it may contain dangerous pathogens like listeria, salmonella, E. coli and campylobacter bacteria. Pasteurized milk has been heated to high enough temperatures to kill the bacteria.
If you have your own cows and you know they’re totally healthy and your environment is super clean, raw milk is probably fine. But don’t buy it from other people. It’s illegal in some states. It’s illegal in New Jersey now (where this farmer is), not sure it was at the time of the death.
Sorry, the guy is in Pennsylvania. It looks like they have some permitting process. They should just ban it.
LOL!!!!
TROLL
Sorry,SJH. Comment was directed at fka serana. Not you.
“Caveat emptor,” no? While the death is tragic, you make it sound like the farmer intentionally murdered the victim.
He threw him on the ground, shoved a funnel in his mouth, and poured gallons of milk into him.
Raw, still warm.😁🤗
The Lactose Murderer!
Holy cow!!!
Such a moooooving story.
Milk it brother!
I was infected with the campylobacter bacteria. Either from poorly processed chicken, or from dog feces that had gotten on a water bottle on a youth soccer field (where people are sadly allowed to run their dogs … on a children’s soccer field!!). I don’t want to be overly melodramatic … but I could have easily died from the infection … although it felt as if I did. Worst illness of my life.
Similar. Salmonella. 20 days, lost 30 lbs. When the nurse finally saw me at my doctor’s office, she said, ” Didn’t you just want to die?!!!”
Yet my doctor saw no reason to admit me to the local hospital because I would just be on the drip. He said, “Call me if anything seems worse.”
That was it.
I buy all my beef and pork locally now, and will continue to do so as long as I’m able. It’s a superior product, honestly I can’t believe I’ve been buying crap meat all these decades. If the feds shut down these operations, it is to the utter detriment of society.
Tyson Foods has sickened more people than Mr.Miller has- go after them…
( I use Tyson meat frequently ), I use best practices in sanitation and food prep and have never sickened anyone!
If you don’t want to drink raw milk, fine. No problem. So people do want to drink raw milk and accept the risks. That’s their prerogative.
Are you part of this case? Are you an FDA employee? Were you forced to drink raw milk when you were a kid? Do you realize that people have consumed “raw” milk, which BTW, is healthier for you, for many moons, pre-government mandated pasturization process? You have issues. The article states “similar to”, so it was NOT proven it came from his farm. If your brother commits a crime and leaves his DNA, which is similar to yours, are YOU guilty of committing his crime?
KILLED ‘em, I tell ya!
It was premeditated un-homogenized homicide!!!
We demand Justice for the Moo Juice Murderer!!!!!
🤣😆😂
Give it a rest, Serena
What is further interesting about this situation is that the feds won’t have to worry about another Ruby Ridge with the Amish. F**k Joe Biden and his assinine administration!
Definitely un-American. This country was never intended to be run by unelected bureaucrats.
The Constitution banned the aristocracy but years later the banned aristocrats morphed into bureaucrats.
The name has changed but the game is the same.
FJB the village idiot and his gang.
So … you REALLY rather we had a Wet-Market Free-Market? Dog for sale? If not, why not? Because they’re cute? Domesticated? So are all barnyard animals. Or because only gooks eat dog? How about Pangolin? Hey! If the two parties agree … Right? You’re not thinking logically.
The USDA is a domestic terrorist organization who’s sole purpose is to terrorize producers into submission.
I want the government to leave my Amish neighbors-at-a-distance alone: to live their unadorned lives, run their farms and stores, build their homes and barns, cultivate their crops, drive their buggies ahead of me in my lane, worship in peace and tranquility, educate their children in their schools, and quietly love our country.
This iteration of our government is seeking revenge against anyone in the quiet neighborhoods they can attack: lawfare style. They are aligning against any target they believe will be easily frightened by their brutal tactics, and intimidated by their mountains upon mountains of legal documents written in incomprehensible legalese.
The Amish, as a group with a specific choice of life style, are the most hard working and law-abiding citizens in the country. They are undoubtedly praying, as are we, for a return to normalcy. We should pray for this farm couple – pray especially that the Judge throws this “case” out.
Rising blood pressure alert.
Amen!!!!!
Well said.
What’s wrong with a 2,000 member club? The Amish will work with each other, he probably gets help from others in his community. You sound jealous, or have some ax to grind. You are holding this guy to standards that you give big businesses and “inspectors” a pass on. We all have seen that regulations and inspections do not guarantee no one will get sick or no contamination will occur.
Were those 2000 members duped? Did they not know they were consuming raw milk?
And he’s shipping his milk to California!!! Doesn’t that take “The English” cars, trucks, and aero planes? Doesn’t sound very quaint and Amish.
BTW … I’ve spent some time driving in and around Amish country PA. There isn’t much I admire more than the BEAUTIFUL farms and Lands of the Amish. They are a credit to our society … even as they choose to be decisively separate from our society. I admire the hell out of the Amish. And every one I’ve met were fabulous people.
Did you drink the RAW MILK?
I bought camels milk from Amos for years as well as other items. They should leave this sweet honest man the hell alone. I know the risks of unpasteurized milk going in and this os one of the only places I could get this camels milk to heal my autistic sons gut issues.
What a line of Bull Crap…out of NOWHERE!
Baloney.
Isn’t breast milk also raw milk? That gets fed to infants all the time.
What’s next…. fda breast inspections?
😂
Healthy cows produce healthy milk. Diseased cows produce diseased milk. Only diseased milk needs to be pasteurized.
I say we are all Mr. Miller. This farmer, who is a hardworking American farmer, chooses wisely to stay out of the swamp’s tentacle reach, should have these charges dropped and we should support his right to do business however he wisely chooses to. Better, someone close should find out who turned him into the authorities for being able to be so successful. I am Amos Miller, you are Amos Miller, we are Amos Miller. Frickin’ ridiculous.
You nailed it!
There is some wako-wako-mentally-ill fool who knows absolutely ZERO about farming and living “off-the-grid”…Soooo,
it must be ILLEGAL!!!!!!!
After all…LISTERIA!!!!!!
Hysteria!!!
Snitch on your NEIGHBOR COMRADE!!!
Nazi! Germany comes to mind!!
What do you think?
I believe it’s the federal government looking to set an example of one family that said, NO! Crush this family to scare others into compliance.
That is what I think and believe. Feds have a history of doing it.
And, on the other hand, USDA inspection hasn’t prevented recalls on publicly available food supplies. I’ll also toss in the feds shutting down a baby formula producer for political nonsense.
Tyranny. I see it.
Absolutely! Of Course!
Here’s the confusing part of this reporting. The religious and organic farming practices slants are irrelevant to the judge.
Why is the USDA involved? Does Miller, the Amish farmer, conduct interstate commerce?
If he sells meat to members who reside outside of Pennsylvania, then his business falls under USDA jurisdiction and guidelines.
Otherwise, if his business is to sell meat only to people with a Pennsylvania delivery address, then the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture has sole jurisdiction.
Who runs the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture?
What Party -Club is ruling now?
the ‘commerce clause’ is the most distorted part of the Constitution, intentionally misread and expanded to enable the Federal behemoth. Even a farmer who grows his own horsefeed is in interstate commerce, according to crazy caselaw IIRC, because otherwise he might buy outside his farm…
How did someone die in florida from milk sold in-state to pennsylvanians?
A strain closely related is by definition not the same strain, which could have been ‘planted’ on this farmer, given what we now know about government behavior to persecute people.
He does ship interstate. That being said, people joined his buying club. I’m pretty sure that government regulations are only for when selling to the public. A private club is not public.
The Amish and Mennonites both settled in Pennsylvania as part of William Penn’s “holy experiment” of religious tolerance. The first sizable group of Amish arrived in Lancaster County in the 1720s or 1730s.
First, I know nothing are the Amish religious beliefs.
Thinking out loud here…
The Amish in Lancaster Co. arrived long before our country was formed. Are Amish farming practices based on their religious beliefs?
Are their religious beliefs such that in this instant the farmer is submitting to God’s authority, which is resulting in civil disobedience by disobeying a government?
It begs the question: Is the government going to also prevent this man from farming his land and continuing to provide the same food for his family that the gov doesn’t want him to provide for others? What’s the difference?
What if I stop by the road and pick an apple off a tree and eat it? Is that violating FDA regs? Or eat my own fruit from my own organic garden?
If their farming methods are based on their faith, maybe there is a ‘religious exemption’. The exchanged of money seems to be an issue, but a private club is the rub. I don’t have the answer, but there must be a legal precedence. Consider private, faith-based universities. They have religious exemptions and there is a money exchange for their services. Are other private clubs regulated-such as Skull and Bones? Where do those bones come from? Humans? Should that be regulated?
So, maybe it boils down to the FDA issue. If an Informed Consent is binding in medical health issues, such as vaccine inoculations, why couldn’t a private club members Informed Consent holding the farmer harmless for any medical issues arising out of ingesting meat without man-made toxins be just as binding?
So many questions.
there’s something about the interstate commerce part in the constitution, how the feds read it, basically you have to produce things not sold between states to get around it, acorns, pine bark flour, etc
FDR threatened to pack SCOTUS in the 30’s to expand the interpretation of the “interstate commerce clause”…..it did not happen but in the end, he did get his more inclusive language from Congress even further expanding federal power into the citizens’ daily lives
How do I join?
The members of his club are aware of his farming practices, and are okay with assuming any risk. How many thousands of food/meat recalls have we had in this country identified by the inspection number?? It’s a joke, a protection racket for the big businesses and grocery stores. So much of this is designed to put the independent farmer out of competition with the grocery stores, and forced to sell meat at auction to store buyers. The auction prices are kept low by the meat buyers and the stores make the money. This is BS, and is part of ruining farmers/making them unable to support themselves and to keep people from having access to healthy food. I was astounded to learn, from experience, that raw milk lasts much longer than pasteurized milk. I would advise the farmer to carry liability insurance, and have customers sign waivers. The customers should be organizing and supporting this guy.
Maybe they are; we don’t know otherwise.
It’s my guess, that they are behind this farmer, since they want to continue buying his milk and other products.
Just get the Government out of our lives.
I think this situation will give the feds/regulators/rulers an opportunity to polish up their Process Crime Policies and refine the best ways to target those whose influence and existence they want to eliminate.
I think it is likely that Amos Miller, his wife, and family are pretty much at peace in the midst of this because they didn’t just start thinking about these possibilities recently. They are surrounded and supported by a broad and deep community.
It is an indicator of just how mistrustful we have been made of EVERYTHING the government does that anyone would actually take this farmer’s side.
USDA doesn’t just protect the safety and integrity of the food that this farmer produces. It also protects his neighbors whose herds could become sick and possbly need to be destroyed if they are infected as a result of this recalcitrant farmer’s refusal to abide by the USDA’s regulations that include administering antibiotics.
America’s food supply is the safest it has ever been. Food born illnesses are so isolated that ANY incideents get a lot of attention and recalls are done after only a few people get sick. Anyone who wants to live in a third world country with all the food born sickness and parasites they live with there is welcome to move there. Leave America’s food processes alone. This farmer is wrong.
SMDH!
There are none so blind………
If you don’t get is there is no point trying to explain it to you further. Probsably the most idiotic current practice is people buying NONpasteurized milk. Complete fools. If anything, the USDA operations need to be modernized and expanded. Don’t complain to me the next time the poultry industry is devastated by an outbreak of a bird virus that came from some crackpot’s unregulated flock. Bunch of yahoos. Go join them.
doesn’t much of our food come from mexico and central-south america?
I don;t trust it and only buy American beef and poultry. It’s always on the label.
then you know how to ‘not buy’ this farmer’s products !!! Quod erat demonstrandem
Did you not read my comment? USDA regulations protect other farmers as well as consumers. This may be the most irresponsible thought thread I have read all week. Defund the FDA and USDA? Must be a full moon.
i did read your comment. but you did not understand mine, apparently. i trust Amish food more than foreign 3rd world food. (loved mennonite bacon as a child)
the FDA SHOULD be defunded and reconstituted differently, because of its vaccine misbehavior, imho. Approval of an experimental vaccine with bad side effects and long term health problems, was crazy wrong. and there were/are other treatments at least ‘as good’ which were forbidden, because their existence made vaccine approval illegal.
do you know how many CDC/NIH/FDA/employees/advisors (if any), get royalties on FDA-approved drugs?
I’ve been waiting for this arrogant regime to tackle the Amish as they do so well without government and they show up how much government costs us with little improvement to our lot and perhaps even some negatives (as we now are experiencing)
They are not a people to arouse. Yes they are non violent but there is a lot of them and they are united by their faith and practice. They could be the nucleus of a resistance movement to government over regulation and misregulation.
And we really need to press for some cutting back on the extent the Congress uses the Commerce clause to meddle in peoples lives and livelihoods.
What’s amazingly stupid is requiring him to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars but want him jailed too. That’s debtors prison right there and that’s supposed to have been eliminated. How can he pay the fine if he can’t work? Oh sure there are others who can pick up the slack but he’s the head of the farm for a reason and it just might not do so well without him and constant harassment by the feds.
Defund the USDA and the FDA.
The second most stupid thing I have read today
And four other idiots agree with it. Amazing
Now 5. I bet you oppose tetanus shots too.
Hey, did you know that the tetanus vaccine was conveniently invented after people learned the importance of cleaning wounds? Infection rates had been steadily dropping for years. Then a shot was invented so that the government could take credit.
Now 6. Sheesh. Must be the night of the walking brain dead for all the anarchist sentiment showing up here. Let’s stop regulating bridge construction as well, stop testing public water supplies, and let snake oil salesmen poison us again without FDA to stop them.
The land of the free? Not quite. Nobody should be forced to use all the chemicals, antibiotics and who knows what else in the raising of any kind of food. That’s what is wrong with our food now. I’m old enough to remember when meat and vegetables and fruits tasted a whole lot better than they do now. And if people are growing their own food they should be free to sell it or share it with whomever they please – that is if this is still a free country.
Big Sugar kills a lot of Americans and doesn’t go to jail.
ADM – Archer Daniels Midland = high fructose corn syrup , in everything.
And if they cant regulate , they are working other food control angles like this.
Pelham on twttr – @Resist_05 Jul 20
2 min. video of planes full of SPRAY TANKS that just do not exist. ( get it fast , last link went gone )
This weeks – USA Watchdog . com has great information on Geo-Engineering
Big AG, corn syrup specifically.
When I buy pure cane sugar, it comes from……wait for it……….Mexico.
Sugar beet sugars are probably not exactly natural in their processing life to get to your table.
Its a shakedown. Also, they are going after those groups most outside the system. The Amish may want to give a little on their old fashioned implements and pick up a few modern item.
While I get the need to regulate industrial farms, forcing antibiotics is not the regulation they should be pushing. This farmer is not the reason why we need regulation and should be left alone. And, in this case, the gov’t isn’t trying to regulate as much as they are shaking this man and his family down. Nice farm you have there. Would be a shame if you lost it.
People CONTRACTED to buy his products. Did they complain? If so, that is a different story. However Courts are commerce and they never interfere with contract law. They can’t—private contract law is private contract law. Where is the injured party? Where is intent? How can a corporation, the government, be injured? Can the injured party come forward? Can they show intent if the injured party cannot be cross examined?
You can hunt and consume the result without govt interference.
The law needs a waiver document…”I understand this organic farm product is not inspected or grown to factory farm rules, I accept any consequences”. The govt always seeks to ban what it can’t control.
The best French cheeses are made with unpasteurised milk.
fwiw- years ago, I learned about the health benefits of raw milk from the Weston A. Price Association.
Weston A. Price was a dentist from maybe back in the 1940s or so, and was disturbed that so many of his patients had tooth decay and crowded teeth. He traveled the world, studied primitive cultures and was shocked that some of these people had perfect teeth, with no tooth decay and no crowding. He came to the realization/determination that it was the Western diet that was actually ruining people’s teeth and that a diet of traditional foods (raw milk, raw butter, fermented vegetables) were better for your teeth.
Here’s their site:
https://www.westonaprice.org/#gsc.tab=0
His book is: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration You can find it at amazon and probably elsewhere–if you go to amazon, you can read the reviews and get a good idea about his findings. Maybe there are pdfs online–it’s actually fascinating to look at the photos of people from primitive cultures who eat traditional foods diet and have perfect teeth.
Found it here:
https://archive.org/details/NutritionAndPhysicalDegeneration/mode/2up
More on raw milk here:
https://www.drdeborahmd.com/health-benefits-raw-milk
The Amish cannot be ‘stereotyped’, anymore than any other ‘group’ can.
The Amish are as diverse as anyone else.
Some of my dear friends are Amish. A sweet Amish girl, with an uncanny connection to horses, is giving me riding lessons.
And some of my trail riding companions are Amish. Those Amish girls are the most fun, and their purity of life is refreshing. I adore them.
Honestly, I would wish that everyone could have a connection — and friendship — with the Amish.
Not knowing Mr. Amos Miller personally, but knowing & interacting with many Amish (Old Order), I would suspect that Mr. Miller is committed to his beliefs — and is also a rather savvy businessman.
Don’t make the mistake of applying your standards to others.
They might well accept some risk in one area as being offset by superior quality in another.
how does an incarcerated person pay off a fine? something doesn’t add up.
The VESSEL, your body, is held, bonded with a CUSIP #, bond is traded on Wall Street. That “bond age” pays the “charges.”
Government confiscates his property as payment. As long as this farmer is put out of business the exact dollar amounts won’t matter. The ends will have justified the means.
I suspect some local beef producer, or other type of producer decided he would rather not compete, and called the feds.
I see what Miller is doing as no different than anyone planting a garden and hauling in the excess to town for a local farmers market.
I also see a massive disconnect between feral goobermint agencies harshly enforcing their regulations in this area, while flat-out ignoring serious law-breaking in other areas. Our open border comes to mind.
Some pencil-neck is offended because Miller decided what the pencil-neck said was ridiculous, so the pencil-neck wants an example made to others and respect for his authority.
Simmer down, Beavis.
This is NOT the first time the Amish havr gone to Court, and if the last occurence is any predictor, the State has bitten off more than it can chew, and will end up choking on it.
They tried to make the Amish install smoke detectors, and the case went all the way to SCOTUS.
It was State not Federal prosecutors, and the issues may have been seemingly more “clear cut” as it was the State, ostensibly wanting to ‘protect’ the Amish,..but it was just as ludicrous.
If they think they will cowe or intimidate mr miller into compliance on this, they are WRONG.
Hard to fathom that some petty buerocrat has the full force of the Gummint, persueing this case.
Raw milk consumption. Lower rates of diabetes and allergies.
I milked cows till I left for college. Our milk was next to free. So we replaced our refrigerated milk daily.
always boil or cook >150.. always
When do they come after people who host a dinner party? Or, heaven forbid, a potluck?