A Narrative Of Convenient Paranoia – Waco Police Claim Threats From Non-Existent Motorcycle Gangs….

Alternate Headline = Waco Police Now Claim They Are Being Attacked By Clint Eastwood and an Orangutan Named Clyde. (ie. Waco PD Leak Security Bulletin To CNN)

♦ Waco Research Thread 1 – The initial Shooting As Reported
♦ Waco Research Thread 2 – LEO Affidavits Inconsistent With Spokesperson Claims
♦ Waco Research Thread 3 – The Waco Police Narrative Continues To Evolve
♦ Waco Research Thread 4 – CCTV Video Refutes Original 3 Days of Police Claims
♦ Waco Research Thread 5 – Listen to the Waco PD Radio Traffic
♦ Waco Research Thread 6 – 14 Officers Were Shooting – Report: “Thousands of rounds”

NEW – To fully understand the following discussion about threats to law enforcement you must first travel back to February 20th of this year to understand the backdrop.

CNN propaganda right-wingPreviously CNN’s Evan Perez reported on an explosive story about a report leaked to him via the Department of Homeland Security, and Perez reported on the content saying DHS claims right-wing terror groups known as Sovereign Citizens were a bigger risk to national security than ISIS.

[…]”from sovereign citizen groups as equal to — and in some cases greater than — the threat from foreign Islamic terror groups, such as ISIS”.  (link)

What CNN was proclaiming -as content within the DHS report- was transparently helpful to an administration surrounded by increasing focus on ISIS terrorism, and ongoing ISIS brutality viewed on TV screens throughout the preceding several months.

The Perez claim seemed targeted to change the discussion and point the defining finger toward domestic white terrorism as a greater threat.  Actually, that’s exactly what he said.

Immediately the moonbats at the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) and a host of nationally published media outlets picked up on the CNN/Perez  report and began numerous outlines of the same and similar construct.

Knowing how CNN and the current administration seem to collaborate on messaging, and identifying that ONLY Evan Perez was interpreting this “leaked report”, and knowing the source document was never actually provided, we became suspicious and began researching the origin of this claim.   (Perez refused to provide the source document despite numerous requests.)

It took a week but eventually we were able to get the report released so we could review the content therein for ourselves.  As expected there was nothing within the report even remotely accurate to the interpretation as presented by CNN/Evan Perez.

To the contrary, the report factually stated in the first page that most sovereign citizens are nonviolent, and that it will focus only on the violent fringe within a fringe—the people it calls “sovereign citizen extremists,” or SCEs.  CNN Lied.

The report describes their violence as “sporadic,” and it does not expect its rate to rise, predicting instead that the violence will stay “at the same sporadic level” in 2015. The author or authors add that most of the violence consists of “unplanned, reactive” clashes with police officers, not preplanned attacks.  CNN Lied.

Of course, a week after the CNN propaganda the narrative of dangerous “Right-Wing Extremists” had already been embedded with the help of a liberal media.  Ridiculously, the words “right wing” were never in the report in any shape or fashion.  CNN Lied.

But, facts be damned – that was “old news” now….

So fast forward to yesterday; same outlet, CNN, same reporter, Evan Perez, and another explosive “leaked” media report about “Threats to Texas Law Enforcement”:

This latest leak, framed to provide sympathy to the Waco Police Department, claims that members of the Bandidos Motorcycle Club are arming themselves with “grenades and C4 explosives” and are plotting to kill “high-ranking law enforcement officials and their families with car bombs.” The “leaked bulletin” lists possible targets in Waco, Austin, El Paso, Dallas, Corpus Christi and Houston.

Waco Police Spokesman, W. Patrick Swanton

Waco Police Spokesman, W. Patrick Swanton

The alleged plots have been hatched to retaliate against police who shot “their brothers” as they emerged from the Twin Peaks restaurant last Sunday. The “leaked bulletin” based on information from an informant who cites members of the Bandidos and Black Widows Motorcycle Clubs as a source.

Except, there’s a problem.

Just like the violent sovereign citizens report, aka “right-wing extremists”, this latest claim of threats against law enforcement appears completely fabricated.

#1.) Eight of the nine dead Bike Club members were from the Cossacks group.  The one other dead biker,  65-year-old Jesus Delgado Rodriguez -a former Marine who won a Purple Heart in Vietnam- was unaffiliated.

All killed by gunshot wounds, all outside the restaurant:

  1. COSSACKS MC ROAD CAPTAIN Daniel Raymond Boyett, 44, of Waco TX
  2. COSSACKS MC ROAD CAPTAIN Wayne Lee Campbell, 43, of Arlington TX
  3. COSSACKS MC SERGEANT AT ARMS Richard Vincent Kirschner Jr., 47, of Kylie TX
  4. COSSACKS MC Matthew Mark Smith, 27, of Keller TX, formerly of Scimitars
  5. COSSACKS MC Charles Wayne Russell, 46, of Tyler TX
  6. COSSACKS MC Jacob Lee Rhyne, 39, of Ranger TX
  7. COSSACKS MC Richard Matthew Jordan II, 31, of Pasadena TX
  8. COSSACKS MC Manuel Isaac Rodriquez, 40, of Allen TX
  9. and Unaffiliated Jesus Delgado Rodriguez, 65, of New Braunfels TX

REPEAT: No-one from the Bandido’s club was actually killed; and additionally no-one from the club’s leadership has any idea where such an LEO claim would come from.

#2.) The Black Widows Motorcycle Club, while it might carry a looming scary name, is actually the fictitious group from a Clint Eastwood movie “Every Which Way But Loose“.  There is no actual Bike Gang called “The Black Widows” anywhere in the South or Southwest.

REPEAT:  It was a movie !

But like clockwork the MSM picks up on the CNN/Perez story and they’re off:

Las Vegas Review – Texas law enforcement officials are investigating what they say are new threats against officers from biker gangs in the wake of a recent shootout in Waco.

Members of the Bandidos biker gang who are in the military “are supplying the gang with grenades and C4 explosives,” according to a bulletin issued Thursday by the Texas Department of Public Safety and reviewed by CNN.

The bulletin warns of plots targeting high-ranking law enforcement officials and their families with car bombs. The bulletin is based on unsubstantiated information from an informant who claimed to have obtained it from Bandidos and Black Widows motorcycle gang members.

The Bandidos want to retaliate against police for shooting “their brothers” as they came out of the Twin Peaks restaurant, the bulletin says.

The gang has ordered a hit against Texas troopers and other officers, according to the bulletin. Among the threats are running over officers at traffic stops and the use of grenades and Molotov cocktails and firearms.  (read more)

Reading this: “Members of the Bandidos biker gang who are in the military are supplying the gang with grenades and C4 explosives“, one might ask where are they getting this aspect from?

For that answer you need to go no further than a June 2014 DOJ report which investigated the relationship between “Outlaw Motorcycle Gangs” (OMG’s) and military members:

However, given all of the claims made by Waco PD Spokesperson W. Patrick Swanton over the past five days that have now been proven grossly exaggerated, massively inaccurate, or just flat out false – what would be the motive for Patrick Swanton to be claiming some kind of paranoid theory claiming non-existent threats from non-existent motorcycle gangs?

Guilty conscience = Paranoia?…. and/or the need for narrative sympathy?

You decide.

Dr_Phil_teen_youtube_beating

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This entry was posted in Abusive Cops, Agitprop, Big Stupid Government, Conspiracy ?, Cultural Marxism, Death Threats, Dept Of Justice, media bias, Notorious Liars, Police action, Professional Idiots, propaganda, Typical Prog Behavior, Waco - Twin Peaks. Bookmark the permalink.

152 Responses to A Narrative Of Convenient Paranoia – Waco Police Claim Threats From Non-Existent Motorcycle Gangs….

  1. Father Paul Lemmen says:

    Reblogged this on A Conservative Christian Man.

    Like

    • Suzee says:

      “65-year-old Jesus Delgado Rodriguez, a former Marine who won a Purple Heart in Vietnam- was unaffiliated.” I don’t mean to nitpick, but I don’t think characterizing a Purple Heart being awarded as “won” is appropriate. Also, no reason to hyphenate “no one.”

      Liked by 1 person

      • Father Paul Lemmen says:

        I agree and have passed your ‘nitpicks’ on to the original site from where this was published … I am simply the re-blogger.

        Like

  2. Ziiggii says:

    are you sure that Black Widow MC isn’t real? They have a FB page
    https://www.facebook.com/BlackWidowsMC

    Like

    • sundance says:

      It’s a spoof social group. Not a “motorcycle gang”.

      It’s the equivalent of us calling ourselves “The Wolverines” after the 1980’s movie Red Dawn.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Ziiggii says:

        oops, I forgot to add my /sarc tag

        Liked by 1 person

      • Ziiggii says:

        BTW – here’s the link for the article quoting Black Widow MC sources. Had to remember where it was… didn’t see it linked above, but I might have missed it.

        http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nation-and-world/new-threats-target-texas-police-after-waco-biker-brawl

        Like

        • Ziiggii says:

          also, ever thing I can find about the “bulletin” points back to CNN. EVERYONE else uses CNN for the source of this information. No surprises there. I can not find one media outlet, any where, that actually tries to confirm that the bulletin even exists.

          Liked by 1 person

        • oldiadguy says:

          There does appear to be a Black Widow MC out of El Paso that conducts charity runs.

          https://myspace.com/bwffbw/photos

          http://suncitybiker.com/black-widows-run-for-the-candlelighters/

          http://klaq.com/tags/black-widows-el-paso/

          Checking copsites, Texas LEO’s are discussing an intelligence report/warning put out this morning and was cancelled a short time later.

          http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1578935

          Like

          • Ziiggii says:

            yeah I saw that suncitybiker post. I just think it’s the name of the event because the patches in the photos look like already known MC’s.

            But here are a couple more links to the mystery bulletin that might be the “source” for the CNN/Perez (not Hilton Perez) story.

            http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1578845
            http://www.goheroes.us/53-hours/texas-biker-gangs-ordered-to-kill-anyone-in-uniform

            screen shot from goheroes link

            Like

            • wrongonred says:

              Note that both Cossacks and Bandidos are misspelled in that “Safety Alert”…….lol, maybe those are the imaginary clubs (Cosaks & Banditos) who lodged the “threats”?

              Like

            • oldiadguy says:

              Check the photos on the MySpace link. Some of the riders have Black Widow logos on the back of their vests. I’m not saying these guys are a gang, but they do use the name Black Widow MC.

              The discussion I was referring to was about a bulletin that came out this morning. That bulletin went out a couple of days ago.

              Take Care

              Liked by 2 people

              • Ziiggii says:

                I found a YT video that looks like it’s with some of the same people from the myspace account you linked. I wonder if this Black Widows MC is some type of internal “support” of the Bandidos MC.
                Via Wikipedia:

                Support clubs

                Like the Hells Angels, The Bandidos also have a number of “support” clubs, who are used as proxies for both legal and illegal activities. These groups usually wear reverse colors (gold border with red background rather than the Bandidos’ red-border–and–gold background). They also commonly wear a unique patch (known as the “Heart Patch”) consisting of a round patch in Bandidos colors on the front upper left of the colors (vest), as worn by the member. Most of these clubs are regional.

                Like

                • wrongonred says:

                  I tracked all of the guys pages from the MySpace Account. His name is James Mendez. http://websta.me/n/bwffbw That said, he seems to be into vintage choppers, and I am guessing that the MySpace picture was a tribute to the 1952 Triumph 6T Dragbike, which was known as “The Black Widow”. There appears to be a Triumph aficionados club in Cali http://dicemagazine.blogspot.com/2012/01/issue-42.html

                  Like

                • wrongonred says:

                  I should have added, that the aficionados club seems to be called “The Black Widows” as well (owners of the 1952 Triumph 6T Dragbike). .

                  Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  I don’t know if the BWMC has any affiliation with the Banditos or not. My goal was to show that there was a mc by that name in the area that could have been the target of the intel bulletin. Whether the intel was accurate or a ruse is unknown.

                  If the coppers over at CopTalk are discussing the intel bulletin about the gangs going to obtain grenades and C4 from members in the military, I can see why the bulletin was put out before being fully vetted. A Texas copper stated that an intel bulletin was cancelled soon after it was posted. I don’t know if the bulletin about the grenades and the C4 is the same as the one they were discussing. However, the timing of their discussion seems about right.

                  Take Care

                  Like

          • @ wrongonred May 22 – Yay! Thanks. That’s another spoof, or at least a humorous take on US MCs. Once I got past the German, I began to appreciate the site. The pix give it all away – the MC mommas are 45-60 year old mammas, there are kids in helmets, an slightly plump and aged guy who looks as if he won’t be able to get his leg over his bike… etc. Also, the appear to be defunct – last function was in 2012.
            It’s beginning to look as if anything named Black Widow(s) must be viewed with extreme skepticism as to dangerousness or outlawry.

            Like

      • czarowniczy says:

        You mean……you ain’t?

        Liked by 2 people

      • Texas Fossil says:

        Observation>
        You can tell when “an agenda” is attached to an “event” by the presence of Paid Leftist Twitter Trolls who seek and attack anyone talking about the event, in order to discredit them. They do this with really stupid talking points.

        I have experienced that on the subject of the Waco shootings. So my conclusion is “someone” has an agenda that is dependent on the public opinion of handling of the shootings.

        Along with that I have had some type of attack on my computer, hogging computer resources, slowing the PC to the point is does not respond to my keyboard. Part of the time it was so bad I had to unplug my computer to regain control of it. When I cleared my /tmp subfolders and restarted the OS (Linux) it seemed fine. I checked for rootkits, none were detected. Suspect Java script exploit.

        The question, who’s agenda are we seeing.

        Like

    • jason says:

      All their pictures On that Facebook are from the movie. Most of the quotes are from the movie also. It’s all a joke.

      Like

  3. booger71 says:

    I generally just squash Black Widows.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. RoyBaty says:

    This whole thing sound really fishy. I always support the police and trust them. But for them to get involved in a motorcycle gang fight where no bystanders were being injured, and start killing them. Never thought cops would do Obama’s (and the Left’s) bidding but I may have to rethink that possibility.

    Liked by 5 people

    • smiley says:

      its kind of like thinking : it can’t happen here

      Liked by 2 people

      • danfrain says:

        Oh, but it can. It has.

        The best (or worst) example is the Bonus Army debacle in the ’30s. The United States Army destroyed a “village” built by veterans of the great war and chased them out of the capitol city.

        Shots were fired. I believe some men died.

        Liked by 1 person

    • sundance says:

      I think they just screwed up. No big massive issue, just a simple mistake, an overreaction, and then an ensuing need to deflect concern about it.

      It would appear to me to be most easily reconciled as all of the officers nervously anticipating something bad happening; all of them twitchy; then whammo something goes wrong, two guys get in a fight, maybe a knife, maybe a gun,…..

      22 heavily armed police are RIGHT THERE, and all of a sudden POW, a shot fired.

      Once the shot was fired 14 police started firing…. milliseconds…. maybe some of the cossacks reacted to that happening…. again more milliseconds….. maybe they drew more guns, the shooting escalates… bullets flying everywhere hitting 27 people, many in the downrange backdrop of the porch – killing nine. 14 out of 22 armed officers fired at the crowd. [Obviously 8 of them did not, why not?]

      Police Headline: Massive Waco gang fight results in 9 dead.

      Actual Headline: Waco bike club fight results in police response, 27 shot, 9 dead.

      No conspiracy. No government planning etc.

      Just FUBAR.

      What always follows FUBAR? A need to quickly get out ahead of the story…. “here’s the plan, this is what we’ll say, now stick to it”…

      Liked by 4 people

      • auscitizenmom says:

        Actually, that is the only thing that makes sense.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Mudbug says:

        You, or someone did the arithmetic elsewhere, finding a remainder of 3 individuals who were not shot and not arrested. Just a SWAG, but one of those 3 was the ‘SWAT trigger’ (pun, intended) for the melee. With the place surrounded by itchy trigger fingers, they needed a catalyst to make things happen. JMHO….

        Like

      • manickernel says:

        Wish there was a good area shot of the restaurant. Difficult to understand layout from what I have seen.

        I did notice that in an interview with waitress on CNN that was inside Twin Peaks, she stated the patio area, that seats 100, was standing room only when the fight broke out. This contradicts the AP report that only 20-30 bikers were on patio and restaurant was mostly empty. It also appears that if those on the patio wanted to join into fight in parking lot they would simply have to hop the railing. All that separates the patio and parking lot is that low railing.

        So if suddenly the police were facing 100 guys in parking lot, might have felt like Little Big Horn over there at Don Carlos.

        Just an alternate take.

        Like

        • smiley says:

          the fact that LE were over at the DC place , before anything started, suggests to me that a plan was in place.
          they were there, in position.

          Liked by 2 people

        • BobNoxious says:

          manickernel-

          I was working on getting you an overhead but came across this first…

          So what type of shot do you want? Something that shows Don Carlos’ in relation to Twin Peaks? The shot I just attached somewhat does… Let me know. I’ll see if there is footage to give you want you’re looking for.

          Like

          • manickernel says:

            I had seen that, what would be helpful is a picture far enough back and from the road or rear to show both DC and TP. From above picture it appears the windows the patrons inside of TP were going to would have been to the right, and would not have given a great view of the parking lot. Also appears the barrier from patio to parking lot is about 3.5′ -4′ high, easy enough to get over though a bit higher than I first thought. I keep hearing about bullet holes covering vehicles but picture above and any others I have seen so far don’t show anything clearly.

            I agree that the information the police have released attempts to portray the armed bikers as an immediate threat to not only other bikers but nearby civilians requiring deadly force. I also believe that various media sites and biker boards are doing the opposite, and TP owners are also spinning their own version. I find it highly unlikely that they do not have additional video of the parking lot, since pretty much every other area of restaurant was covered. I am guessing they have the video connected online to upload otherwise how were they still able to allow AP to view video. It would almost certainly have been seized from the site by law enforcement.

            Like

  5. smiley says:

    the Spin Cycle is on, and the conditioning begins.
    biker gangs
    biker brawls
    biker gun-fights at the OK Corral
    while local LE are trapped & surrounded in nearby buildings, for cover.
    or something like that.
    oh and it will get WORSE…MUCH WORSE.
    be afraid citizens.
    be very afraid.
    in fact, soon you very well might have to shelter in place.
    so get used to it in advance.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Ziiggii says:

      Makes me wonder if there really is something to the JH15 hoopla? Seems to be a large number of “events” going down in TX all of the sudden

      Liked by 5 people

  6. AdukeLAXobserver says:

    People with that many tats form their own wing on the political spectrum.

    Like

  7. 2x4x8 says:

    SPLC has a long history of giving Law Enforcement information, leads and encouragement on hate groups

    http://www.splcenter.org/hate-map

    Liked by 1 person

  8. timmihendrix says:

    Breaking news: Cyrus and The Riffs are organizing a truce between all the gangs in New York to take over the entire city. CAN YOU DIG IIIIIITTT…….

    Liked by 1 person

  9. kinthenorthwest says:

    Looks Like I will be watching this movie again.

    Liked by 4 people

  10. michellc says:

    I guess if they ever shoot up a tea party group, they can just claim they were sovereign citizens plotting to kill cops and overthrow the government. Then Perez can go on air and say the government warned they were a threat greater than ISIS.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Ziiggii says:

    I haven’t seen this one posted. If it has been I apologize.
    DA defends $1M bonds, says arrested bikers not cooperating with police

    In his first lengthy interview since Sunday’s shootings, McLennan County District Attorney Abel Reyna defended the $1 million bonds keeping most of the arrested bikers in jail, and said the ones claiming to be victims need to start acting like victims and cooperating with police investigators.

    http://www.kxxv.com/story/29120879/da-defends-1m-bonds-says-arrested-bikers-not-cooperating-with-police

    “start acting like victims…” Say whaaaaat?

    Liked by 4 people

    • wrongonred says:

      From that piece: “According to state law, a criminal street gang is defined as “essentially three or more persons having a common identifying sign or symbol or identifiable leadership who continuously or regularly associates in criminal activities.” ”

      Um, is it just me or is there a tremendous amount of irony in that statement?

      Liked by 6 people

    • doodahdaze says:

      Sounds like DA is worried.

      Liked by 2 people

    • doodahdaze says:

      If all the bikers shut up they will eventually have to be tried and then the DA will have to prove his case. If none of the bikers break the DA will be up the creek in court.

      Liked by 2 people

      • art tart says:

        doodahdaze ~ And as soon as ALL the bikers get attorney’s whether private or public defenders, the first thing their attorney’s will tell them is too keep their mouths shut just as they have done.

        What will the DA do if the Attorney’s ask for a speedy trial? Sounds like the DA is short on evidence & might have thought he would flip some against others, imo, this won’t be as easy to try as the DA thinks, his behavior speaks volumes.

        Liked by 2 people

    • auscitizenmom says:

      Not cooperating??

      Like

    • michellc says:

      “I’ve heard enough about my person was a victim and most of the people were victims,” he said. “Well, guess what? If they’re victims they shouldn’t have any problem coming to law enforcement and cooperating to be sure justice is done and the individuals solely responsible are brought to justice – and through the first round of interviews we aren’t getting that,” Reyna added.
      What if they know nothing other than the cops started shooting? If they believe or know they were victims of the cops and say that is that not cooperating?

      “As many weapons as were found out there, they weren’t out there just to eat lunch, they weren’t out there to just have their little meeting, they meant business,” Reyna explained with a serious look.

      He proudly described how local law enforcement officers took control of the scene quickly when gunfire erupted and then managed the difficult apprehension and arrest of nearly 200 people, many of them armed. But he also cautioned the investigation is just a few days old, and people shouldn’t rush to judgement.

      “We need to see what that evidence reveals, but I can tell you this – we’re gonna get to the bottom of it and law enforcement is all working together as a team, and I’ll bet on our own gang before I bet on their gang,” Reyna promised.

      First off, many of those weapons were pocket knives and swiss army knives. I went to eat with family at a bbq joint tonight and I obviously meant business because I always have a pocket knife(my Grandfather’s) and a Swiss army knife(because it has many gadgets that come in handy at times) in my purse. I like everyone else sitting at the table had a legal to carry handgun either on our person or in our purse.
      People shouldn’t rush to judgement, yet it’s not a rush to judgement to declare 170 people are hardened criminals who require a million dollar bond?
      I’m sorry that last paragraph sounds more like we’ve circled our wagons than a guy wanting to make the streets safer by locking up criminals.

      They really need to just keep their mouths shut because they sound more ridiculous and more like they have something to cover up with every public announcement or interview.

      Liked by 6 people

  12. czarowniczy says:

    Thought this had a slightly stanky taint to it from the git-go. Next they’ll be claiming that Horiuchi wasn’t there…oh wait, different Waco LEA fiasco. Never mind.

    Liked by 2 people

  13. SAFVet says:

    Reposted at lucianne.com

    Like

  14. BobNoxious says:

    McLennan County is reaching out to neighboring counties for help b/c they don’t have enough attorneys to cover the 75-80 people that qualify as indigent- the court only has 29 qualified regular appointees in-county. Any attorney wishing to help must be pre-approved to handle first degree felony cases in Texas. I’d sign up to help if I lived in Texas.

    http://www.wacotrib.com/news/twin_peaks_biker_shooting/county-seeks-help-with-shortage-of-attorneys-in-twin-peaks/article_81c1eb45-5518-5af6-87fb-c1308420dec5.html?mode=jqm

    Liked by 1 person

    • doodahdaze says:

      Like I said. All the bikers have to do is be potted plants.

      Liked by 1 person

    • art tart says:

      BobNoxious ~ is it possible that the million dollar bail will be dropped for most of the bikers? That sound outrageous w/so many arrested.

      Like

      • BobNoxious says:

        I’d imagine so once the hearings start- I think next week. I think it’ll also help when they start getting through the videos and figuring out who is who- who was involved; etc.

        I’ve said all along that I think the massive roundup was an overreaction born out of an effort to prevent retaliation and reassure the public. That doesn’t justify it but I think it explains it.

        Liked by 2 people

  15. Ziiggii says:

    Found some interesting stuff:

    This vest has the Black Widow logo and Bandidos MC patches

    from the myspace account from above

    Like

  16. auscitizenmom says:

    Wow, all very curious.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Maquis says:

    “…Jesus Delgado Rodriguez -a former Marine who won a Purple Heart in Vietnam- was unaffiliated.”

    Nitpick-The Marine was AWARDED the Purple Heart, one does not WIN it, though I believe it would be appropriate also to say that he EARNED the award.

    In other news, Waco is Whacko.

    Like

    • Ziiggii says:

      my nitpick, since we’re picking on nit’s, we are never “former” Marines ever. But, it’s hard not to use the term since we are not “active” Marines.

      Like

      • JeremyR says:

        I can name two former Marines, Murtha, now deceased, and the jackwad who wrote Jarhead. At one time my great Uncle was the oldest living Marine in Minnesota, a survivor of Mont Blanc Ridge.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Janie M. says:

        Well, I guess you could say “former” is the lesser of two evils – beats ex-Marine because (as a USMC vet also), once a Marine, always a Marine. 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

      • Ziiggii says:

        from report page 8:

        Between 2010 and 2012, ATF New York and Boston Field Divisions conducted a 2 year investigation into the Pagans Long Island chapter. During the investigation, two ATF undercovers (UCs) successfully infiltrated the Pagans. At the end of the investigation, the male undercover held the position of sergeant-at-arms for 1 of the 13 Mother Club members. During the investigation, the undercovers purchased firearms,
        narcotics and explosives. The male undercover witnessed more than a handful of violent
        assaults toward fellow Pagans members, prospects and civilians. He purchased an explosive device that was to be used against the Hells Angels. During the takedown, ATF recovered a second explosive device, similar to the one purchased by the UC. All defendants have been convicted.

        So there could be some truth to the “conspiracy theory” angle that SD has been accused of?

        Like

        • Ziiggii says:

          based on this ATF report, I have to wonder if this entire event was a sting gone horribly wrong and most if not all of these deaths were “wrong place at the wrong time”. As well as all the other MC’s that were there that morning. I have to believe that the ATF has been infiltrating the Bandidos MC and the UC got outed that morning before the sting could be executed or something of that nature. The Waco PD has been put in an awkward position since they were the local assets assigned to execute that morning and now are being used as the mouthpiece of an incompetent ATF group.

          It’s “Fast and Furious” 2.0 with a dash of Waco 1.0 thrown in. An over zealous ATF with a possibly trigger happy local SWAT that might have been all to happy to try and be the heroes to save a UC ATF agent after they got outed/confronted in the bathroom. Why else would there be surveillance prepositioned at the site? There has to be an audio tape some where.

          Liked by 2 people

  18. wrongonred says:

    In the event this has not been posted yet: http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nation-and-world/new-threats-target-texas-police-after-waco-biker-brawl

    “The Bandidos want to retaliate against police for shooting “their brothers” as they came out of the Twin Peaks restaurant, the bulletin says.”

    Except all the slain were Cossacks……….

    Liked by 2 people

  19. archer52 says:

    I have read the posts and the comments. I went ahead and did an article I my site because there is just too much to cover.

    http://truthandcommonsense.com/2015/05/22/watching-good-people-go-a-little-nuts-the-conservative-treehouse-grows-a-conspiracy-the-texas-biker-shootout/

    But I say this:

    I good-naturedly challenge Sundance or anyone here to give us a better operational plan, knowing what the police knew-

    A: a large gathering of armed bikers of competing factions, that were already having trouble with each other, were coming together under tension. B: The place of gathering was in public and had innocent civilians at the location. C: Prior incidents (some listed in my article) indicate the bikers will shoot at each other, regardless of civilian bystanders and harm them. D: It is the duty of the police to stop the violence. E: The bikers have a right to assemble- peacefully. But not start any violence.

    Go ahead, be the commander of this mess and make sure you don’t get any babies killed like the one you put on your site, or a cop, like that female officer you also highlighted.

    I’m willing to listen to any ideas. Not all police, especially locals, look to do harm to others, even bikers. I’m sure they are all wondering what will happen in today’s environment. It is never pretty. My friend shot a man, a good shoot, and was still dealing with it IN FEDERAL COURT three years later. You can bet even justified, the police will end up there as a civil rights violation.

    Like I say in my article. I get the anti-authority meme. And I hate the ATF and don’t like they are anywhere near this, because if they can screw it up, they will. I’ve dealt with them professionally. On an one to one basis, they are decent people, but as an organization….jeeeezz… But that aside, this mess is not a conspiracy- yet. A huge, HUGE clusterf**k but not a conspiracy. They will take weeks to literally sort out the evidence here.
    99%ers are like any other wannabe gang banger. I know some of you don’t feel that way, and I am sure I insulted you. However, when you stick you toe in the bad boy pool, it rubs off and taints you. By enabling the 1%ers by dressing like a bad boy, playing like a bad boy, you help them hurt others. Do the research on the biker gangs. They are not good people. Hanging with them has consequences.
    To the shootout. Only bikers got killed. We can argue if justified when the evidence is in.

    But the fact hundreds of rounds (not thousands apparently) were fired in thirty seconds and nobody BUT targeted individuals were struck is something to note. Some of you complained about the use of ARs. I know how the police shoot. The rule in a gunfight is you bring the biggest gun you can shoot the most accurately. I’m sorry people got killed. But..well read the article.

    to the overcharging of the suspects. This dovetails into the “no criminal record ergo not criminals” meme. They are by nature hard to catch unless you target them. That is why police stick UCs in with the gangs for years.

    If you’ll note, 118 guns were recovered- nobody on the biker side owned up. Years ago, that would get them off the hook. Not today with contact DNA. So now the police have the guns and the suspects. What do you want to bet they are swabbing and testing? Somebody is going to prison.

    Lastly, to the issue of “self proclaimed” detective. I’ll put my record up against anyone else. I wasn’t the smartest my department, but I was close. My last partner was smarter, by a long shot. He reinvented how RICO cases were put together in my area of the state and taught me. But I caught a lot of bad guys, got a lot of confessions, worked a lot of cases including gang related RICO. I’ve been shot at, stabbed (thank god for vests), had a guy stick a Bersa .380 in my face and pull the trigger three times from five feet. Since I saw him jack the slide back an instant before he did it, I was surprised it didn’t go off. In his excitement he short stroked the fully loaded weapon. I have stuck my gun in the face of more than a few bad guys, fully intent on killing them, but by the grace of God they gave up. So I managed not to kill another human in my career, something I’m proud of because I believe and still believe that a good officer is a peace officer first.

    Some of you complain when I said it is our duty to keep people safe, their families safe and their stuff safe. It does look like we don’t do that, but you are confusing duty with function. Their departments run scared of bad publicity and drive cops crazy with stupid rules. Our political leaders are forcing the police to pervert their duty. Leaders voted in by the public. Trust me, you put four cops in a car, three of them are more constitutionally conservative than most of you!

    Thanks for letting me have the time and my opinion. I am a great fan of the crew here. In this case, I just want to pull a little on the shirt tail to slow you down. It may turn out to be a problem, but give it time. Not all cops are bad.

    Liked by 7 people

    • doodahdaze says:

      Hey, I have no love for outlaw bikers at all. They are not my cup of tea. I am commenting on the legal case.

      Liked by 1 person

    • michellc says:

      Thanks for letting me have the time and my opinion. I am a great fan of the crew here. In this case, I just want to pull a little on the shirt tail to slow you down. It may turn out to be a problem, but give it time. Not all cops are bad.

      Has anyone said all cops are bad? In a case like this all it takes is one bad cop or one twitchy finger cop to start the bullets flying.

      My personal opinion is probably a twitchy trigger finger cop started it all and what we’re seeing is the aftermath of trying to cover behinds.

      I could certainly be wrong, but I think when you see something like this you should be questioning it. It’s just as naive to believe all cops are good as it is to believe all cops are bad.
      You should also be paying attention to the media and questioning why LE are all evil when one thug is killed and the cops caused these people to burn down towns, but now LE are the heroes who saved the day.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Ziiggii says:

      Archer, I always appreciate your wisdom as a former LEO.

      Liked by 1 person

    • wrongonred says:

      Thank you for your thoughts and laying them out. I appreciate your perspective. I think however you misinterpret or at least misattribute the statements and motives of some. I do not think I have seen anyone argue that they think the cops are evil and therefore meant this to be a massacre knowingly. I think the consensus of those not swallowing the official story is that this was a total cock up, and that the “conspiracy” part of it is the full on CYA and trying to control the narrative, instead of just being forthright.

      What gets me is that when someone screws up in law enforcement, the wagons are circled, instead of just being honest and saying, “Someone screwed up”. I have found in my life that such candor, while sometimes difficult to muster, in the long run is the best course. As they say, the cover up is worse than the act.

      I will raise one point however, and that is that you essentially said all of the rounds found their marks, however, there were 27 injured which the media has said nothing about as far as I can find. I would wager they were folks on the patio, and that likely some of them were not intended targets and ended up being backstops from the Fire Base Don Carlo shooting range.

      I learned along time ago to never attribute to malice that which can be explained by sheer stupidity alone. I am rather sure it is a corollary to Occam’s Razor, or damn well should be. I just cannot stand to see good people contort themselves in ways which define comprehension to justify the stupidity of others. I do not get the desire to close ranks, and never have. It is like denying a law of physics. Rather than attempt to contort oneself to account for or justify stupidity, just admit that someone screwed up and hold them accountable. It is like in this “everyone gets a medal” society, it has become more acceptable to cover for stupidity rather than be accountable for them.

      Liked by 4 people

    • yadent says:

      Again, your ‘duty’ is not to ‘to keep people safe, their families safe and their stuff safe’ but to uphold and enforce the law(s). Safety is a benefit derived from that sole duty. Failure on law enforcement’s part to ‘Protect and Serve’ the free public does not lead to any legal consequences for the governmental agencies involved but a failure to ‘uphold and enforce’ by those agencies potentially does and should have profound legal consequences. The reason I harp on this point is the false notion that it is law enforcement( government) that is solely and ultimately responsible for ‘keeping people and their stuff safe’. This idea is the basis for public disarmament. As for ‘not all cops are bad’, it only takes a few bad ones to arouse legit suspicion from the public for ALL officers. Why? Because the general public has no idea which officer is potentially ‘wicked’. Considering all officers are armed and ‘under color’, possessing a great power the general public doesn’t, they rightfully should be viewed with healthy suspicion until proven otherwise. As I said before, I have worked with hundreds of officers(corrections to street) for over 25 years, have a sibling with 24 yrs on the force, and a relative with nearly 30 years. I have worked with many good officers and some whose only difference from an inmate was the uniform. I have developed a healthy suspicion of ALL authority for good reasons……

      Liked by 5 people

      • wrongonred says:

        Yep, they really need to have a lesson on Warren v. District of Columbia (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981) in the Academy. I repeatedly hear officers misstate their own purpose. It usually then rapidly degrades into them talking about Good vs Evil and that they are the sheepdogs who keep the wolves at bay, By the end of the conversation, they would have you be convinced that they were appointed by God Almighty to rain justice upon the wicked. It is like they get completely confused whether they report to the Executive Branch or Judicial Branch of Government, and forget their role it not to obtain retribution.

        Like

      • 1hear2learn says:

        Here, here…well said!

        Like

      • archer52 says:

        Developed a healthy suspicion? So have we!

        There are police who think the gun and badge give them authority to rule. I hated them.
        We usually ship them out over time, or the urge to be “Wyatt Earp” (as I called it for years) goes away when they realize nobody cares and everybody is hunting them.

        The good cops realize with power comes great responsibility- to steal a line for Spiderman.

        What is happening is the loss of discretion combined with bad training. As you can see, Obama’s agenda is to “nationalize” the police force by creating one procedure and policy that controls all of their behavior. Then be in charge of setting that policy and procedure. You don’t want that. We don’t want that. Only those who love totalitarian rule like that.

        I can only state this is not the FAULT of the police. This is the fault of the people who allow and agree with this agenda- many voted in by citizens.

        How many Sheriffs have openly stated they will not comply with their political leaders new laws? Dozens? Hundreds? On the line, you will see the majority of the police simply refuse to comply. Quietly. What you will also see is a concentrated effort by bureaucrats and politically correct leaders to thin us out. I’m gone. My buddy is gone. Several friends are looking to go as soon as they can. All because we knew this was coming and we knew in good conscience we could not obey those commands.

        When and if your greatest fears happen, I think you will find a vast majority of us standing with you, not against you.

        That said, yes cops are humans which means we have our share of idiots. I’m hoping they weren’t on the guns that day.

        Good luck and yes, keep the light shining on this. The control of the narrative is the natural reaction we have when dealing with a mess. Why? Because EVERYBODY wants a cop’s scalp for their belts, even an innocent cop. Most give lip service to “hero” cops while looking to slam one. And it’s easy to find an idiot. I wince when I see one nowadays. “Hey dude, in case you haven’t heard, everybody has a camera today. And it never looks good on Youtube!”

        You think you guys can get paranoid, pin a badge on your chest!

        Liked by 3 people

    • Ziiggii says:

      And all these comments (healthy discourse) is the reason why I love my small spot of the branch of the Treehouse!

      Liked by 4 people

    • Millwright says:

      Archer, All cops can be, (some often willingly) “mislead or manipulated” by snitches or “sources” for their own ends. I’m not claiming this (increasingly obvious) massacre was incited by local PDs. But if these “meets” were commonplace events at Twin Peaks in the past, why were the local PD out in force for this one ? And why were all the DBs outside the restaurant ?

      Right now all we, (the public ) has are reportedly nine dead citizens killed (its increasingly seeming) by police without a probable cause ‘! Don’t know about you, but that scares the hell out of me !!!

      Liked by 3 people

    • Dixie says:

      I haven’t commented at all. And I haven’t read all the links offered here completely either. I have always supported police and believe most of them have our best interests at heart.

      But by the same token, consider the possibility that all bikers aren’t bad guys either.

      In this case, I will reserve judgment. I don’t know what is going to happen next, but there may come a day when we need all the good cops and all the good bikers to help us defend our rights.

      Liked by 4 people

    • oldiadguy says:

      “Or as an old police officer once said to explain all outrageous behavior ” It is what it is.””

      I know that expression well. Thanks, it was an excellent article.

      Take Care

      Like

    • Angel Martin says:

      Archer, thank you for posting on this sight. I learn the most from former LEOs like you and IADguy.

      I think it is important that you remind us that even within dysfunctional departments like ATF, 99% of ATF as individuals are decent people caught up in a dysfunctional department.

      by contrast, the members of OMCs are NOT decent people, and that is the difference.

      Like

    • Theknoch1055 says:

      I’m so glad there are people like you in our world. Thank you.

      Like

  20. Millwright says:

    Up until CNN weighed in I had some doubts about a “sting scenario”. But Twin Peaks is increasingly reeking with the same odor as prevailed across the Southwest from the administration’s OF&F sting”. The (proven bogus) CNN claim of “right-wing terrorist group(s) ” seals the deal in my mind. Next, no doubt, will be claims from the same ‘source’ that ‘the Bushies did it’ ! Or the NRA. All this lap dog media hoopla increasingly seems like serious administration/bureaucracy CYA . For what purpose ? Another VJ ‘diversion’ to moderate increasing ‘heat’ emanating from Baltimore, MD and Ferguson, MO ? IMNSHO, none of the ‘official accounts’ of events at Twin Peaks match post-action evidence trails.

    Like

  21. 1hear2learn says:

    My guess, FWIW, is this ordeal is an unfortunate sequence of events that spiraled out of control and PIO presses were based on the best information he was provided at the time well before all the facts were known to LEO except their interpretations at the time. Assuming police were pre-staged at the location due to Intel provided beforehand with an expectation there might be some type of confrontation between the various MC gangs, and then a fight does indeed breakout and was spilling out into the parking lot, I could see some gang members possibly drawing guns, and possibly even taking shots at one another, and, because of this, LEO had to take action…and others MC members may have instinctualy drawn their weapons, perhaps in self defense, and these MC members were then also targeted by police as all would be considered threats by LEO. I also suspect during the melee that many involved in actual shootings may have had no idea where all the bullets flying around originated as it had to be a chaotic scene. The presser done so soon after event was done in haste with incomplete information but I give benefit of doubt that those were the circumstances as LEO believed them to be at the time and probably still believe to great extent now. I also think the arresting, charging, and bail amount is ridiculous but possibly done due to possible retaliation and an effort to get additional information about MC gang activity, and that many scooped up in this probably do feel like victims and may have no knowledge about what triggered the incident, or other “gang” activity (even if they did know of other gang activity, I doubt they’d share when that should be irrelevant to this event).

    That’s my take on all this with no first hand knowledge about any of it except what I’ve read here. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

    • oldiadguy says:

      Look at some of the fatalities. Two Road Captain for the Cossacks MC and their Sergeant at Arms. Were those fatalities a coincidence or were those individuals targeted? If you were a rival gang member and was “going to war” with a rival gang, who would you target? So many questions, so few answers.

      Take Care

      Like

      • manickernel says:

        One thing I haven’t figured out is why the Bandidos would have put out a greenlight on LEO after this. Granted they had one associate (not member) killed but overall the result was beyond anything they could have had in a wet dream per Cossack casualties.

        Like

        • oldiadguy says:

          I don’t know. I wish I knew the breakdown of the biker club members in custody.

          One thought is that the local law enforcement is bringing some heavy heat down on them and they think by issuing threats that they will back off. Who knows.

          Like

        • lovely says:

          I read somewhere it is in retaliation for the mass arrest of the Bandidos.

          Like

  22. John Galt says:

    I think Lynch would have a bunch of cops in jail by now if the bikers were black.

    Liked by 2 people

  23. pspsst says:

    Remember this?

    His son, Beau, also did quite a number on the killing of an innocent Iraq combat veteran, who had joined an “outlaw motorcycle club” (OMC), Derek Hale, father of two young children and volunteer for Toys for Tots.

    Clearly, the DSP wanted to find a suitable “threat” – preferably one that was telegenic without posing significant risks to “officer safety” – to cast as an antagonist in a high-profile PR campaign. The Pagans were a perfect fit. The Feds cut themselves in for a piece of the action, and a joint “task force” was created to target the Pagans.

    Eventually, the DSP was able to produce a 160-count indictment against several members of the motorcycle club. That document was replete with lurid – and studiously vague – allegations of “racketeering” and “gang activity.” Derek was never a criminal suspect. In fact, he didn’t become a “person of interest” until after he had been murdered by the police.

    William Queen, an undercover agent for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms, spent roughly 30 months infiltrating the Mongols Motorcycle Club. His labors – which cost a great deal in money extracted from tax victims, and nearly destroyed Queen’s family – yielded an insignificant haul of controlled substances and “illegal” firearms.

    Trite and pointless as the operation proved to be, it did give Queen an opportunity to strut and preen about his supposed accomplishments.

    “While they are wearing that patch, they are untouchable to the world at large,” wrote Queen of the Mongols in his memoir, Under and Alone. “No one can make trouble for them without bringing down the fury of the whole Mongol Nation.”

    As Queen conceded, that description applies much better to the violent, lawless brotherhood that employs him: “Living full-time as an outlaw gave me a perspective few law-enforcement officers ever get to experience. I was often more at risk from my supposed brothers in blue than from my adopted brothers in the gang.”

    Please read the entire story of how they took down Derek Hale on the balcony of a private home where he posed absolutely no threat to LEs.

    http://freedominourtime.blogspot.ca/2012/09/of-bidens-and-bikers-does-anybody.html

    This is why sunlight has to be shown, not to diminish police but to prevent these over-reaches from tarnishing and dilute real police work. There isn’t enough good in me to fill one single hat of a policeman I once had the honor of knowing and his work, and who later died in the line of duty by thugs. I grieve for his family often. This is why this kind of fabricated danger at the hands of politicians and whatever federal agenda that puts at risk the innocent and police must stop.

    I am not privy to what happened exactly but it doesn’t take a rocket scientist examining details available to the extent available, tossing out red herrings to get a good sense. The exclamation by Swanton that he can’t wait to tell us what happened is a tell tale sign. 8 bikers shot and killed in one spot. What happened at that spot? There were no Bandidos. No rivalry had occurred at that spot. The only odd biker killed was a purple heart ex-marine. Nearly a thousand rounds? Even a hundred would be too many. The police aimed at those 8. When they fled, they just kept aiming at the ones standing or running still. They got the ex-marine by mistake or something. Who else was part of the group but got away? Was he the plant and did his mic transmit the Cossacks identifying a narc or plant, and threaten to kill him at the parking lot. Just remember, there was no apparent rivalry because all killed were Cossack. Why was Rodriguez killed and where was he during the take down?

    Like

    • John Galt says:

      “What happened at that spot?”

      Consider, if you will, your weekend trip to the shopping center. As you arrive in the parking lot, an individual dressed as a biker runs out of a store and fires a gun. What do you do? Are you reasonably in fear of death or great bodily harm to yourself or your fellow citizens in the parking lot? Do you draw your own legally carried handgun in self-defense? If you did that at Waco, you got shot by 14 cops hiding in ambush in a neighboring parking lot.

      Liked by 2 people

      • smiley says:

        “…an individual DRESSED AS a biker…”

        Like

        • lovely says:

          Yes I have read this before but it makes no sense to me. One UC fires a gun to give carte blanche for the lying in wait LE to kill off a load of bikers and then LE mysteriously stops with 9 dead? LE knew there would be a large cache of weapons attached to this group of bikers in particular. Why stop at 9? Plus the 18 injured but those are not all gunshot wounds if the reports are accurate.

          Like

      • lovely says:

        I possibly have drawn my gun. I certainly would feel a heightened sense of awareness to the situation, whether I felt in fear for my life would depend on if the person dressed as a biker was a pursuing another individual, was coming in my direction, was randomly shooting at anyone who moved and so on. I would not immediately pull my gun out if I saw a lot of bikers and saw one fire a gun, I would assume it was a personal beef or a rival gang confrontation and I would make myself as small as possible and retreat to safe ground, I would be ready to get my gun out and shoot if the I felt in danger of a gun wielder, I would not make a judgement which biker was innocent and which was the aggressor in a biker gun fight.

        I also am making this call with the luxury of not really having to make it. So I can’t really say what I would have done in the heat of the moment.

        The situation in Waco at TP was a little different as LE was expecting violence and LE is aware of what that violence could mean. A waitress who quit was interviewed and said that LE had asked TP to cancel the event due to growing tensions between the cossacks and Bandidos. I know some here believe that the LE request for TP to cancel the event is smoke and mirrors from LE. Time will tell.

        Like

  24. LadyRavenSDC says:
  25. lovely says:

    A point of confusion for me is that it is being claimed that the restaurant inside was mostly empty and that there were about 20 Cossacks on the patio yet there were certainly over 200 people in attendance at the restaurant so where were all the patrons?

    Also many of the bikers may have been legally carrying but if so, they know the routine. Why hide their guns? If shots had just been fired and you don’t know what is going on why wouldn’t you keep your gun? If shots have been fired, after a brawl which included knives and guns, and LE is entering the restaurant lay on the ground, hands behind your neck, finger interlocked and LE is going to get back to you, as soon as they come back you say “I have a legal fire arm” and LE will take it from you given the volatile situation of the moment and it can be sorted out later.

    How many time have folks here said comply with LE in a highly charged situation and figure it out later in court if you have to? Mike Brown et al should have complied but the bikers should have hid their guns and knives?

    What sense does it make for an innocent person to hide their gun ?

    Now a few other questions I have, we are still unsure where the shooting started, on the patio or in the parking lot. We know LE responded immediately to the first shot fired or gun brandished, we know LE stopped firing after less than a minute of starting. So perhaps LE stopped as soon as they saw the armed bikers down, including the one with a gun who continued to crawl on the ground who LE on the radio said they “gotta keep him out of it.” Out of what? It sounds like that officer still saw TP as a very dangerous situation. Unaccounted guns were still among the bikers even if those brandishing or shooting them were down.

    So if a shot was fired and LE saw other guns come out, what was their option given that armed men were in a civilian setting. LE’s shots seem pretty good. If “thousands” of shot were fired by LE I think we would have seen some pictures of the shell casings. People at Don Carlos would have taken some pictures at the very least.

    It is being reported that the 18 wounded have varying injuries from gunshots to knife wounds, I think it is a safe assumption that LE did not stab anyone so it is also a safe assumption that an altercation was taking place within the violent biker members present. That is exactly what LE warned about and exactly what they feared was gong to escalate and given there are reports by civilians of bikers with guns, it seems like that is exactly what happened.

    From the pictures of the bikers who were taken into custody it is apparent that some of them still had their phones. We have seen no texts or heard no messages where they state that they were attacked unprovoked by LE.

    One last issue I take is that the purple heart veteran seems to continuously be given a pass, what do we know about him other than he was a purple heart recipient? I thank him and honor him for his service. Maybe he was there independently and just got caught up in the melee, maybe he was friends with the the 1 %’ers and took his chances that this would not be a day of violence for them and was there as their guest. Maybe he deserves a pass because he was a decent human being in the wrong place at the wrong time. His service deserves our honor and respect but a blind eye should not be turned to his presence among Bandidos and Cossacks.

    I said it before and I’ll say it again any loss of life is a tragedy. My deepest sympathies go out to all the family and friends who lost a loved one.

    One last point. If this all started because of a twitchy fingered officer then I would expect the stabbing and other wounds to be false reports, why would folks being shot on decide to have a knife and fist fight among themselves?

    It is going to take time to sort things out I think more needs to be known before we can make an educated judgement about the entirety of the situation, the shooting, the brawl, and he errors and/or lack thereof made on LE’s part.

    Sorry I do feel a need to say it again. The vast majority of bikers are wonderful people, the vast majority of cops are wonderful people. I am personal friends with both.

    Liked by 1 person

    • smiley says:

      if LE had enough info to bring out SWAT, why WAIT FOR the “vicious criminal gangs” at a public area, shopping center, restaurant venue ?
      where lots of citizens could have been hurt?
      why did LE not go after these “criminal enterprisers” PRIOR TO their arrival ?
      this is pre-meditated.
      and the narrative afterwards is being controlled and directed in such a way as to make “bikers” out to be an imminent threat throughout Texas.
      remember : most bikers believe strongly in “sovereignty”.
      maybe that’s the threat.

      Liked by 2 people

      • lovely says:

        Having information of about criminal activity is not the same as having legal evidence which meets the burden of proof in a court of law.

        LE tried to have the meeting stopped but TP decided to proceed with allowing the event to take place, we do not as yet ( thank God) live in a police state.

        LE has gone after some of the criminal enterprises of the Bandidos prior to their arrival but again see my first point.

        What is pre-meditated?” Killing 9 out of 200 bikers, a seconds long shooting spree?

        Maybe the narrative is being directed against all bikers, I haven’t interpreted the press conferences that way.

        I do agree that any one who believes in “sovereignty” and/or the integrity of the Constitution is considered a threat by the Obama administration and the administrations minions.

        I am as of yet not convinced that the LE involved at TP are part of Obama’s minions.

        I am out and about today. As always, thanks for the conversation.

        Liked by 2 people

    • pspsst says:

      LE radioed “gotta keep him out of it” regarding one who was crawling on the ground with a gun to get away? Exactly. I’d like to know what that “one” is.

      At this point, I’ve dismissed most of the red herrings being issued as narrative from either side because it requires firm proof. I’m only examining hard evidence, which are the number of dead, their MC, where they were shot, presumable locations for police to station themselves. The guns pictured were from a photo bucket of guns taken in San Antonio, Texas, as proven by a treeper on a previous thread. It did not come from TP.

      Liked by 1 person

    • manickernel says:

      That “20 people on the patio” related by the AP story was contradicted by a waitress interviewed by CNN that stated the patio, with a seating capacity of 100, was standing room only when the fight began. I suppose they could have all jumped the barrier into the parking lot. This is why, until video is released, everything else is pure speculation and BS.

      Liked by 1 person

    • archer52 says:

      If the WP article is accurate, it was either a boastful young man pushing an armed older biker (all about ego) or an ambush. The rapid deployment of weapons by one side leans toward a prior plan. If that is correct, and it was in a public place, the disregard for others innocent bystanders should be a driving motive for the DA to indict and prosecute and jail everyone he can for the next 25 yrs on RICO charges .

      That message will resound within the 1%ers and the 99%ers. There are lines you cannot cross. Killing innocent people or endangering innocent people over your personal territory business is one.

      Like

  26. Jelly casey says:

    Please send some investigative reporters to Waco! We the people demand justice and the truth!

    Like

  27. OP says:

    Has any of the 9 deceased men had their bodies returned to the grieving families?
    How long is the state going to torture the family?
    I suspect the police are petrified to release the dead bodies, knowing that 9 funerals of motorcycle riders is going to swamp the police.

    Texas incompetency with EBOLA, and now this…a mass shooting on a Sunday afternoon at a public restaurant.

    Like

  28. zzclancy says:

    Nothing but bull shit coming out of Waco. Remember these are the people you had to kill the children to save them. Waco, murder with a badge!

    Like

    • All the children killed to “save them” were killed by FEDERAL guns! We must be more discriminating – there is a difference between local cops and the feds.
      And don’t forget Archer’s comment above about “Obama’s agenda” to federalize the [local] police! This is not just a Dem wet dream.
      Republicans also have enthusiastically signed on to the “give the local cop departments federal money” with strings attached that have the effect of semi-federalizing the local cops already and have been going on for several decades.
      And back to the Feds as the bad guys: when you are associated with the fed LE world, you naturally think you are the coolest, best-trained, smartest guys in the world. All others in LE are minor, incompetent, pipsqueaks. Finally, review the WACO/ATF commentary above.

      Like

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  30. Pingback: 9 killed in Texas - Page 2 - Shooting Sports Forum

  31. Sophie Maele says:

    Bottom line: How many cops were shot/injured by the MC? The police panicked and started firing indiscriminately. Now they are covering up their cowardly killing frenzy.

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    • lovely says:

      Except the one family of a slain Cossack who I saw interviewed was grateful to LE for the lives that LE did save. It appears the cops were shooting at bikers who were shooting at other bikers.

      The police panicked and started firing indiscriminately

      22 officers some with assault rifles, 14 officers discharged their guns, 9 dead bikers, very very likely not all by LE, a barrel of 200 bikers, that just doesn’t speak to panicked indiscriminate shooting by the LE.

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    • archer52 says:

      And where did that come from?
      Panicked in what fashion?
      From what?
      And define indiscriminately?
      Only shooting bikers?
      Bikers with guns?
      Bikers with guns shooting guns?
      Bikers with guns shooting guns at police?

      Remember, only dead and wounded were bikers. We don’t know how many came from police rounds yet. But not all of them were police killings, the first three were biker on biker, maybe more:

      http://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article21963138.html

      The police don’t know who shot who yet. You may find out it is far less than we first assumed. It’s not NCIS or CSI.

      We saw the aftermath with the cops with ARs, but the radio traffic indicates patrolmen were responding. I don’t know how many had patrol rifles with them or not. Or if responding units arrived with just pistols and engaged.

      Or didn’t.

      If when they arrived they were shuffled off to a staging area while the tactical units were mopping up the fight. (That’s is what I would do.)

      I read somewhere that the total gunfight lasted 30 seconds before it stopped. In large part I’m sure from the police interdicting it quickly- which is the correct thing to do in a gunfight.

      I’m hoping if the police knew the meeting might turn ugly they pre-positioned police with appropriate weapons in tactical places for observation and potential response. And if somebody didn’t have video of the meet and still photos I would personally kick their intel unit’s butts right back into patrol! If ATF/FBI were there initially there are pics and video.

      And where is the coverup? I’m seeing the “narrative” being challenged by people with assumptions and biases, not facts. And frankly even if we had all the evidence and all the facts there is no way- at this point- we could sort it out.

      Trust me, there will be plenty of time to complain about coverups or “tweeting” narratives. The POI officer right now is like Josh Earnest for the White House. He is saying what he is told is okay to say. It will sound contradicting. Unlike Earnest, it may NOT be because his bosses are felons and corrupt and insidious!

      His initial press statement should be limited to:

      “A bunch of bikers got together at this location and shot the crap out of each other. The police responded to this ongoing lethal event. The shooting stopped. We have THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of pieces of evidence to go through. The bikers are not cooperating, as is their history with police. We arrested a shitload of them who were at the scene and they sit in jail until this sorts out. NOBODY has a right to start shooting in public, in a public place, endangering innocent civilians- as though it was their right, and get away with it! We live in civil, peaceful society- or at least we try to. And you pay us to try and keep it that way. Let us do our job.”

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  32. John Galt says:

    Don Carlos vs Twin Peaks complaint (pdf)

    http://www.abajournal.com/files/waco.pdf

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  33. Thanks for caring. I want to know what happened. And I am not in the habit of assuming zero human error, especially in government. Trust but verify.

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  34. TheTruthBurns says:

    Waco or wacko Texas? Gen Wes Clark from Ft. Hood sends tanks to burn to death Branch Davidians. Ft. Hood has Muslim Terrorist officer Kill many & labeled as workplace violence. Now a Fake Bike Gang & Police spokesman who sounds as Dumb & Retarded as Dr.Phil. Anyone who believes Texas will stand up to the Fed or secede is Insane. The State has it’s nose up the Feds Azz. Texas gets Tons of Fed $ for Military, Oil, Police, Illegal. Don’t Mess with Texas cuz it’s already Messed Up!

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  35. was there says:

    This was a sting operation gone the way it was planned. An undercover fed in the bandidos placed the call to the cossacks to meet at the to, the plan was to confront or run over a cossack start a fight there were 2 snipers on the Don Carlos roof a undercover biker shot the first shot at the cossack killing him then all hell broke loose

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