When I read the New York Post article proclaiming that President Trump supports the fraudulent system known as H1B visa hiring, I knew something was amiss because we previously looked at Trump’s various business hires and use of the visa process.
Apparently, the NY Post called President Trump to get him to weigh in on the controversial subject that has been triggered by Elon Musk saying he would “go to war on this issue” to maintain the H1B visa system -and subsequent foreign employment for tech skilled workers- his various companies depend upon.
Here’s the topline takeaway from the article that has triggered many:
(NY POST) President-elect Trump told The Post Saturday he supports immigration visas for highly skilled workers, appearing to side with Elon Musk in the roiling intra-MAGA debate on the issue.
“I’ve always liked the visas, I have always been in favor of the visas. That’s why we have them,” Trump said by phone, referring to the H-1B program, which permits companies to hire foreign workers in specialty occupations.
“I have many H-1B visas on my properties. I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program,” added Trump, who restricted access to foreign worker visas in his first administration and has been critical of the program in the past. (more)
However, if you go to the Dept of Labor website, search or download the database of H1B employment, specifically filtering to Trump’s various companies, what you will discover is that Trump Inc doesn’t use the H1B visa system at all. [Check for Yourself Here]
How does this reconcile? Well, having previously looked at the visa use by President Trump in his various companies {SEE HERE}, I can confidently assert (Occam’s Razor) that within the interview President Trump conflated H2B temporary worker visas, which he does use in his service industry, with H1B visas which he does not use.
The H-1B program applies to employers seeking to hire nonimmigrant aliens as workers in specialty occupations of distinguished merit and ability. At least that was the intent of the program before it was abused by companies who saw the opportunity to avoid domestic market wages and find alternative cheap sources of skilled labor in the tech sector. That abusive ‘labor diversion’ process has now expanded to find H1B claims in other sectors. So much so, there are now a myriad of companies requesting H1B status employees for their various interests.
The H2B program applies to employers seeking to hire nonimmigrant aliens as “temporary workers” mostly in the service industry where extreme seasonal fluctuations in business make it challenging to hire from a very limited market base. H2B workers are found in hotels, resorts, restaurants and service companies anywhere you find big seasonal shifts in service businesses, like Trump resorts.
As previously noted, Does the word “Snowbird” ring a bell? Florida has a “tourist season” which runs from (generally speaking) just after Thanksgiving to Easter annually. January, February and March are the peak. The first Monday in February is the absolute peak as almost every time-share and hotel unit flips that week.
The volume of work within the service and hospitality industry doubles during the tourist season, and those businesses who hire within the general labor market struggle to increase their labor in relationship to the increase in business. In addition, local workers looking for employment are reluctant to take temporary or “seasonal” jobs, and prefer longer term -more stable- employment.
Many businesses need to double, or in some cases triple, their workforce in order to meet the business demand. As a consequence, many companies, including Trump owned resorts, have used H-2B visa workers to fill the gap between large fluctuations in business and the needed staffing shortfalls. From my own experience, many of the workers are students from South America (Argentina, Brazil, etc) who take the seasonal jobs Nov/Dec – March/April between their college seasons – and then return home.
Bottom line – President Trump is referencing H2B visas which he does use, and not H1B visas which he does not use. Whether President Trump conflated the issue, or whether the Murdoch owned New York Post intentionally constructed their questioning to create a clickbait controversy, is entirely up to the reader to determine. I think it’s likely a combination.
♦ All of that said, the issue of H1B replacement workers displacing American workers is not going away regardless of how uncomfortable it makes the Silicon Valley crowd. Many highly skilled Americans have been impacted by the issue of H1B replacement, and the inherent fraud within the special interest employment system is a critical issue for a large percentage of the MAGA base.
In fact, for context you might remember the 2017 Trump suspension of visas from Muslim countries. In response to that suspension, the state of Washington filed a lawsuit against President Trump seeking an injunction to continue the visas. The main subject of their opposition was the financial impact to Microsoft and the H1B visa use.
BYRON YORK, 2017 – “Why is Washington State mounting such a vigorous challenge to President Trump’s executive order temporarily suspending non-American entry from seven terrorism-plagued countries? Of course there are several lawsuits against the president, and there are lots of motives among the various litigants. But Washington State’s is the suit that stopped the order, at least temporarily. And a look at the state’s case suggests that, behind high-minded rhetoric about religious liberty and constitutional protections, there is a lot of money at stake.
Judging by the briefs filed by Washington State, as well as statements made by its representatives, some of the state’s top priorities in challenging Trump are: 1) To ensure an uninterrupted supply of relatively low-wage H-1B foreign workers for Microsoft and other state businesses; 2) To ensure a continuing flow of high-tuition-paying foreign student visa holders; and 3) To preserve the flow of tax revenues that results from those and other sources.
[…] Washington State argued that its residents have suffered from the Trump order, or might suffer in the future, because some of the state’s biggest businesses rely on H-1B visas, which are often used to bring foreign workers to U.S. companies at lower wages than their American counterparts.
“The technology industry relies heavily on the H-1B visa program,” the Washington State lawsuit said. “Microsoft, a corporation headquartered in Redmond, Washington, is the state’s top employer of high-tech — or H-1B visa holders and employs nearly 5,000 people through the program. Other Washington-based companies, including Amazon, Expedia, and Starbucks, employ thousands of H-1B visa holders.” (link)
Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks, Elon Musk (with his influencers) and the tribe in/around Silicon Valley, have placed their flag of influence on this H1B hill. They are willing to do whatever it takes to retain this system, much to the angst of the MAGA supporters who have been victimized by it.
When a system has been so thoroughly corrupted as to now create harm, there should not be a great deal of controversy in suspending that system until the market can correct itself. However, losing control of the H1B visa system is viewed by the Silicon Valley tech group as a non-starter position.
♦ It will be interesting to watch how Silicon Valley’s ally, JD Vance – a political entity wrapped in the cover of Hillbilly values, reacts to this H1B visa and immigration debate.
As we watch the arguments inside the H1B debate, it is worth remembering the group who promoted, pushed and ultimately influenced the JD Vance nomination consisted of: Charlie Kirk, Tucker Carlson, Elon Musk, Peter Thiel, Bill Ackman, David Sacks, Chamath Palihapitiya, Jacob Helberg and of course, Vivek Ramaswamy. On the inside of the Trump orbit, the network had Donald Trump Jr also promoting JD Vance.
JD Vance was then invited to be an attendee at the June 6th San Francisco fundraiser for President Trump, hosted by Sacks and Palihapitiya, and that’s likely when the first one-on-one running mate discussion between President Trump and Senator Vance took place.
Usha Chilukuri Vance, the wife of Ohio Senator J.D. Vance, quit her job as a corporate litigator at DNC-affiliated Munger, Tolles & Olson, within minutes of hearing that JD had been selected as President Trump’s Vice-President nominee and running mate. Usha Chilukuri-Vance worked in Washington DC for the firm.
The American workers who Silicon Valley advocate for replacing with foreign workers, are the proverbial “Saxons, with nothing to lose.”
The Big Tech group may not have initiated the background; in fact, the offshoring and replacement cycle was started many years before. However, when you strip a group of Americans of their value, label them, ostracize them, ridicule them, belittle them and then denigrate them for failing to support your abuse, think “rust belt”, you create a group of Americans with nothing left to lose.
Calling people “racist” and “nativist” who voted for President Trump specifically on this issue is not going to work. Musk et al should be very aware that this H1B debate is targeting the “nothing left to lose” American team.
If they think their immigration position is both zero-sum and survivable, think again. There is much for them to lose. The true zero-sum position is already held by a much bigger tribe of American workers who truly do have nothing left to lose.
Silicon Valley ends up fighting an army that will never concede because they have already been stripped of everything they hold dear.
Beware the wrath of the angry Saxon. This immigration topic is Musk, Ramaswamy and Sacks’ first trip into what they call ‘flyover country.’ They are experiencing strong MAGA pushback, something very new and uncomfortable for them, likely for the first time; hence, their emotional reactions.
We understand the UniParty is smiling as they see us debating this issue; however, if Making America Great Again doesn’t benefit working Americans, then what exactly is the point.
Where ‘s Donald??
Did Trumps deal with the DEVIL get exposed?
Trump always was quick to respond on false articles (fake news) so for him to be quite like this says A LOT!!
Trump is enjoying watching people turn themselves into fools over an inconsequential issue.
He has more important issues on his plate, like 30 million illegals, the economy, wars, MAGA.
He does not suffer fools.
Musk’s appalling diatribe is not inconsequential.
I do not mind honest, respectful debates.
You know what? I finally put my finger on a little inconsequential thing about Musk that has always nonetheless bothered me to no end: how he looks. And wasn’t until he blew up that I _finally_ realized why his appearance bothers me so: He looks like Greta Thuneberg. And now that he threw a fit, well, he sounds like her too! He could pass as her father! Not saying he is, nor that this is in any way important. But it is…. fascinating, no?
Have to include the H11B’s as illegals if they didn’t go on to become American citizens
H1bs are contracted to a company and law says they must return to whence they came unless they can find another sponsor or can convert their visa status.
The real problem is the abuse of them. A colleague of mine that I had taught OS/400 and RPG-400 programming got hired by a Disney company in Orlando and later had to train a lower-paid H1B hire from India to replace him.
The problem is that the feds stamp approval on them all without checking them. I suspect because big boys like Microsoft have a deal with them, or an “understanding” with DC, so as to bypass the impossibility of getting what they want from Congress. Where lawmaking and lawbreaking is not for sale.
But look. Foreign geniuses have contributed mightily to the tech infrastructure in the US. The native-born have generally screwed us worse, like Bill Gates, Zuckerberg, the guy that funded the seat that Richard Dawkins pontificates from.
Just fix it, but make sure we can have others like Fleischmann to collaborate with guys like Pons, so we can get more tech leaps forward like LENR!
H1 b fraud, illegals, same same.
I have been wavering on this whole conversation. I understand cogent arguments on both sides.
One piece of the argument has been totally absent from the conversation: accountability by all parties. Poor products/services are poor products/services. I have weathered through enough exclusively American made crap products/services/foods, etc., through my life that most assumptions based on nationality are laughable in my mind.
The real thrust of all of this is income distribution – losers and winners. Fine by me – American politics don’t really change – just the winners and losers. I will be ****ed, however, if I will buy crap from providers based on nationality. Quality and price – those are the determinants. Unless, of course, we have moved out of free market, capitalist principles and into other gov’t directed areas.
I bought a shower rod and soap dispenser that were silver and very pretty made in India. They rusted within a week. Rusted. Items meant for wet environments not properly painted and a complete waste of money.
I have curtains that I bought from The Vermont Country Store made in India. The valances are slightly different colors. They are meant to be the same but the aren’t. And the hem is so crooked on the panels I’ve never seen anything like it my life. Makes Chinese junk look good in comparison.
I miss Country Curtains with Made in America products. But they went out of business.
So in my experience Made in America has always been better quality. Not sure what you’re talking about.
He’s talking about buying the cheapest possible crap, without a care as to who, what or how it was made. I knew exactly where that sentiment would lead us and now .. here we are!
PS the reason that we live at dollar stores and everything else goes out of business is that American labor had been replaced with *cheap* foreign labor. Aka slave laborers.
That’s it. In a nutshell.
It’s all part of this new/one world order and we were scammed big time. Those pulling the strings are richer than they ever dreamed possible! They will never shop at dollar stores for cheap crap or eat pink goo disguised as meat. That sh!t sandwich is exclusively made for *our* consumption.
So.. stop consuming their crap sandwiches! Shop the little mom and pops in your downtowns, and spend a little more. It won’t kill you and it might just preserve what little dignity we have left.
I got the items at Tjmaxx not Dollar General. I miss made in America and shop local as often as I can.
“buy crap from providers based on nationality.” I don’t believe I advocated for that.
I don’t believe the h1b issues is inconsequential.
Sparky already posted this comment on the previous page. He must get paid by the post and how many responses he get to the post.
Agree.
There are plenty solid arguments/use cases for the America First principle.
Retributive justice is one argument that has some content – but can easily backfire, big time, once established as an actionable motive.
What has been dropped from the argument is the hiring practices of all the sub-contracted companies.
I’m sure PDJT will correct the record soon.
I take Trump at his word so I believe he was speaking of H-1b, he agrees with his tech guys. If he didn’t, he wouldn’t be silent. He’s doing what all art of war moguls do, they let people fight it out and make deals with the winner. I’ve worked for one, this is their strategy.
It can’t get to the point where the maga base begins to perceive a backstabbing because if it does, he’ll lose support. Let’s see what happens, I hope he leans in favor of us.
As for Musk, he really doesn’t seem to understand the risk he is taking on, he’s about to learn the true fighters that MAGA Americans are. He’s a baby.
Got a little article from Newsmax in my email this morning. For what it’s worth Dick Morris (I’m not a fan) says Trump will stop the h1b grift.
Essentially reform it.
But what I found interesting is that this program was started under Bill Clinton and (drum roll) Mayorkas. And from its inception was corrupt.
“I think Trump is just enforcing his will,” Morris said. “That program has been rife with corruption ever since it started under the Clinton administration. [Alejandro] Mayorkas, the head of the immigration service, was literally working with Hillary’s brother to get H-1B visas issued for a Chinese company that was producing weapons of mass destruction.”
https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/dick-morris-h-1b-visas-immigration/2024/12/28/id/1193190/?ns_mail_uid=bf336f0a-9417-4a50-a807-a535fec724bb&ns_mail_job=DM730501_12292024&s=acs&dkt_nbr=010124ygxw5t
The Clinton/Rodham Gang that sold nuclear secrets to China and pardons to Marc Rich & Co. for helping Iran wiretap its people also sold H-1B visas to a Chinese Nuke company through Mayorkas. No wonder the Chinese have agents at ALL of our Weapons Labs.
No wonder Mayorkas et al should be very nervous at the moment.
Do we have ANY existential threat to America that has NOT been caused or made worse by
DEMONIC CORRUPTION FROM OUR ELITE POLITICAL “Leaders”? What?
Yeah I read that but really, I’ds Dick an insider with Trump?
I think not
I agree but the interesting part is that America got by without any h1bs until Clinton and Mayorkas invented it. And it’s always been corrupt.
Looks like it was Big Bush not Clinton. Either way…
I stand corrected. Not much difference.
Billie you may also be interested in checking out Tierney Real News Network substack for her take on this issue.
Dated, from the GOP debate
This is what people want to hold him to, and it shouldn’t be going unanswered this long.
Longer version
H1B visas were developed under Clinton. There lies the issue and the confirmation it would be a much stretched policy to make the big corporations and billionaires who own them happy. Cheap and continuing supply of labor while pushing more expensive to hire American workers to the side is what they want. Money is the bottom line and this policy provides that pathway to more of it for these businesses.
If PTrump and jd Vance push for real reform in this process, it can be changed into a workable policy. American workers, citizens, need to be first in line for American jobs- if they are qualified-no matter what. That should be the first requirement of any foreign worker program in this country. Labor laws can be written, used/enforced if already applicable, changed if need be to protect both American workers and businesses.
Not sure how PTrump misspoke of the H1B issue, if he did really, as reported by the Post, but he does need a firm detailed statement on all this very soon I think. Vance too.
Poso posted an old clip. From years ago. However, I agree with Sundance. Trump has mixed the visa he uses for seasonal workers with the h1b. This is not over.
If Trump can invent DOGE to eliminate 50% of Federal workers,
… he can damned sure invent DOVE (Department of Visa Efficiency) to eliminate H1-B Visas!
Sundance’s “Americans with Nothing-to-Lose” can RUN IT!
As Laura Loomer says, Elon is pissed because his 250 million dollar campaign donation perhaps isn’t buying what he wanted from MAGA – no resistance on any pet policy of his.
The question of what these corporate globalist technocratic psychopaths expected in return should have been the first thing in everyone’s minds.
H1B is like so many other issues–there are good reasons and real reasons, and often the divergence is considerable.
Exactly! This is what happens when a program is run by the government. The original intent which was designed to facilitate acute needs on a limited basis is corrupted by those who want to exploit it, and expanded by those whose jobs and career opportunities in the government depend on its growth, and who have no control mechanism to stop the bribery and grift from those that are taking advantage of it. There is no national need to import commodity human resources from around the world, and this is what the H1B program is currently being used for.
Amazon use it daily, flying workers into their warehouses to stack and pack, and then flying them out again. The cost of jet fuel? How much is Bezos paying as a wage? I won’t buy from Amazon.
Must be because Americans aren’t well enough educated to stack and pack.*eyeroll*/sarc
Don’t play into this psyop to demonize Musk. Because he controls X which was credited for torpedoing the Omnibuspork package.
What we are witnessing is the blobosphere demonizing Musk because he has vowed to primary RINOs and to finance the campaigns of moderate democrats against leftist.
He demonized himself.
You are demonizing him and one of your President’s chosen.
Some people are quite capable of making their own decisions rather than relying upon the President. It’s called discernment.
Seriously, did you actually say “one of your President’s chosen”? We are not talking about disciples here for heavens sake nor the Son of God.
Sparky must be an H1B worker here in America tasked with working extra hours to insult Americans who watched jobs be given to illegals and H1B foreigners.
That is why he says “your President”. He is not from here but is inserting himself into a conversation that the CITIZENS of America are having.
I suggest you read this article by Clarice Feldman.
The Capital is Like Brigadoon – American Thinker
That was an interesting article. Feldman wrote: “In the end, I think these temporary work visas for people with exceptional and needed skills will continue, abuses of the program will be investigated and addressed, and in the long term, greater progress will be made in improving the technical skills of American students.”
I somewhat agree, at least regarding the current state of the US “education” system. Nevertheless if, as Feldman says, these work visas are meant for people with “exceptional and needed skills”, one would expect that statistically most H-1B coders and managers (I am referring only to the software profession here) would in fact be the exceptional and “go-to” coders and “subject matter experts” on any given software team. In my 40 year career both writing code and designing hardware, I have rarely witnessed that.
Now I HAVE seen some excellent Indian coders and engineers. I am not saying there are none. But on average across numerous teams that I have been part of (including places like GE and IBM), I have not observed that H-1B visa holders generally have “exceptional skills” relative to their US citizen coworkers. In most cases management wanted them strictly for reduced cost. NOT because the talent was unavailable.
At least that is what I have seen in the software profession and in electrical engineering. I cannot comment in other areas.
Exactly
Are you suggesting that because this particular Oligarch is “on our side” that whatever he does is acceptable because…politics?
Can you not hear his claim to equal or more power than our President? Is that notion the common bane in the thinking of these extra wealthy men??
Afterall, these Technocrats envision themselves as eventually running the globe.
Are these such Oligarchs not without their Achilles’ heel? Could not MAGA tear down Twitter simply by ENMASSE withdrawing from Muck’s product/business? Where then would his town square exist? Lose his engagers and then lose his income. Ellison will lose as well… and then how will they fund their AI Singularity and vision???
I doubt this is a psyop….I think this is HUBRIS erupting.
I also think that a person like Musk, unaccustomed to the cheers of the non-geeks has intoxicated him and the others of like mind.
Gladiators know that cheers can quickly turn to jeers by the displeasure of their audience.
I question if Musk is a gladiator.
Could we not boycott the living daylights out of any company that abuses any Visa holders/Illegal Import labor??
Musk was allowed to essentially move into Mar a Lago and eat at the Trump trough for months along with the poor child that he named “X”. I lay all of this debacle at the feet of Donald Trump. He let it blow in the wind for days before making what appears to be an untrue statement. Maybe he should learn not to sh*t where he eats.
1). Elon and Vivek have ZERO to do with Immigration or VISA’s
2). This all started with Laura Loomer and the Trump Appointment for A.I. – Sriram Krishnan
3). I prefer to look at what the Trump Administration did in his first Term about VISA’s
https://www.shrm.org/topics-tools/news/talent-acquisition/trump-suspends-new-h-1b-visas-2020
Future RegulationsScalia said the DOL is continuing to work on regulatory reforms to the H-1B visa program, including strengthening wage protections and addressing abuses in the program, and working to “identify businesses that misuse the H-1B program to the detriment of American workers.”
Even before COVID-19, U.S. workers were being “replaced or undercut by foreign workers in tech and other industries,” said Tom Homan, former acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement. “With record unemployment crushing millions of Americans, especially young people just graduating from college, importing more foreign labor or allowing foreign nationals who are already here to continue to work while Americans continue to lose their jobs is simply unacceptable. Can any reasonable person imagine why we would need to bring in more than 100,000 foreign college students this summer on [J-1] summer work-travel visas? I can’t.”
Homan recommended that the Trump administration finish and publish regulatory actions which have been in the planning stages for years, including proposals that would redefine H-1B requirements, scale back the Optional Practical Training program for students and rescind work authorization for the spouses of H-1B workers.
The promotion of a “war” between MAGA and the Trump Administration is counter productive, particularly when President Trump is not even sworn in yet –
We argued over the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
We were ALWAYS going to have this argument–and need to.
There certainly is something to this opinion. We all know the enemy wants Musk and PTrump at odds and to rid themselves of Musk’s power and influence and to harm divide MAGA which they hate also and want gone. Right now, this issue is doing that in spades and the enemy is very happy to push it further to get what they want.
Look how people on this site are responding. Hair on fire anti Musk opinions everywhere and we haven’t really heard a full on comment by PTrump yet. Don’t discount that this might very well be a set up by TPTB. How many times do we need to be fooled and dragged into their traps and media hustle?
It maybe a real issue the H1B visa program. It is/has been corrupted and being used far from its supposed original purpose, or what we thought the original purpose was. That can be changed. Driving wedges into the partnership between DOGE and PTrump is exactly what the enemy will try to do in any way they can do it. They want DOGE to fail, Musk to leave and MAGA to be fooled into agreeing with them indirectly.
Yes, H1B could be a real problem swirling around PTrump and his administration, but just always beware the traps that we know the ever present and going nowhere any time soon enemy like to set using their complicit media and govt. authorities to help them. The enemies in govt. and big business are not going to and never will just sit back and allow the Trump administration to freely run to DC and eliminate all the perks they have set up over the years that benefit their bottom line which is making/stealing money. Lots of it.
How to say this in polite parlance…? Hmm… Go violate yourself!
When an alien in a foreign land decides to come here, for any reason love, money etc.. I am not required to celebrate it or subsidize it.
When a venture capitalist accepts a business plan that’s success is dependent on the importation of foreign labor, I am not required to celebrate or subsidize.
When a political party, state or city decides to advocate for population increases for purposes of additional representation or federal funding, I am not required to celebrate or subsidize. When the banks want more people to write loans to…. When the chamber of commerce wants more people to sell cheap china junk to, When universities want more students for a larger administration and endowment, ect..
Constitutionally laws relating to naturalization and citizenship belong to the people’s house. The people have repeatedly demanded less immigration not more and have been ignored or betrayed at every turn. Enough, 30 years ago.
“When an alien in a foreign land decides to come here, for any reason love, money etc.. I am not required to celebrate it or subsidize it.”
Amen
Any company that wants to sell to the US market MUST employ US labor to create. The country’s foundations are eroded when the price advantage of hiring smart 3rd world employees takes priority.
I had a friend that had worked for UPS for 25 years from a teenager. It was the mid 90s and His body was wearing out. He still had kids to get through college. Network engineers were making $60k, entry.
He got all the Microsoft networking certifications. Took over 2 years and the first wave of H1B workers were coming in at $45k. He couldn’t afford to stop working at UPS.
If an employer can chop off the top 3% of earners and replace them at the bottom of the pile, it reduces the drive for higher wages. Just 7% replaced and you can force wages down. Club for Growth types have done white papers for years on the “benefits” of foreign born workers.
Elon, are you selling those cars, rockets, and satellite services to Americans? Then you have to share your billionaire wealth with the American workers that make that happen.
Sudo slave labor who can be sent back to a country with open sewage will put up with FYITE type temper tantrums. Is that really leadership?
Who do we want to be as a country?
The reasoning given by Elon in opposition to the elimination of the program seems thin and emotional. I don’t buy his we need the best and brightest argument and you’re a racist if you are too simple to understand. Very weak, Elon…there must be something else here . Let’s let the sunshine in.
$omething El$e.
You ask the generation Z vote for me and give their job away. For history lesson, you have your college graduate loss job there going to be a social unrest.
Dear Elon,
Equal treatment is coming. And Justice.
Sincerely,
The People
Dr. Sowell is in his early 90s now, he will be sorely missed.
PRES. TRUMP needs to come out with his H1B policy quickly. This isn’t going to get better for him.
For all the ELON LOVERS. He is nowhere close to MAGA never has and never will be. Is JD Vance really MAGA??
Elon wants our money to go to his MARS/ TRANSHUMAN EXTRAVIGANZA! What a JOKE!!
Is JD Vance really MAGA??
Indeed
Keep your eyes peeled people.
We don’t have to vote for Vance after Trump’s term.
Vance is far from MAGA
and its scary the loser leads the 2028 polls already
now …let see who is MAGA and who is MIGA-make india/israel great again…hmmm
Why is PRES. TRUMP letting ELON set the tone?
It’s NOT a GOOD look for PDJT
MAGA KEEP FIGHTING!!
Perhaps there could be value in allowing the deflation of these men?
Perhaps such a deflation could be ulilized to keep them in check- in order to actually serve We the People?
Donna: Get ready for another four years of this.
It is so messed up that a company on American soil should make Americans compete with the rest of the world for a job in their own country.
My career has been in manufacturing and much of it has been off-shored and in my case, it started under President Reagan. The main reason for off-shoring was cheap labor. For disciplines that could not be off-shored “in-shoring” was created and it’s main objective was the same, cheap labor.
I suspect that the H1B program was created to facilitate “in-shoring”, its platitudes are and have always been political window dressing. If it was originally created for just the best and brightest, it would not have been created in such a way that it allowed for the replacement of qualified American workers. I would not doubt that the U.S. Chamber of Commerce lobby was behind the creation of the H1B program.
Another government program that should not exist to add to a long list.
Upon a little looking, the H1B program was enacted in the year 1990. The president at the time was George H.W. Bush of the “New World Order” coalition. NAFTA was also negotiated under GB and then signed by Clinton.
“Free trade”, “service economy”… all part of Papa Bush’s New World Order.
You are right, SD. If we don’t matter and our replacement happens by another method by people on “our side,” what’s the fkn point of supporting Trump or any of them? I’m so sick of people like Musk pissing on my head and told it’s raining. If H1B is controlled and restricted as it was meant to be I don’t think there would be a problem. However, in it’s present open-borders use, the only difference between Biden’s open-borders is maybe the volume but it’s still a situation of a death by a million cuts. This has been going on for decades. If people like Musk can’t make a profit by using Americans paid a decent wage then he has a failed business model. Like Mr. Putin has said, “They are only satisfied with super-profits.”
These tech people are globalists. Look at what their “leadership” has done to this country. They have turned much of America into a pigpen while they live protected behind their gates and armed guards. They are not nationalists. They could care less about our daughters being raped and our sons dying in their meaningless wars for super-profits. I’m an unapologetic nationalist. To them we are deplorables. Untouchables. Human garbage. Musk told us to Fk ourselves if we disagree with him. How can you have a rational intelligent discussion with a stumbling demented child-king who thinks he is god made flesh?
I actually think that’s what Vivek was expressing. That we white and black Americans are a lower caste with no right to question our betters.
There is little doubt that Vivek and Elon regard themselves as superior to us non-tech uncool regular people.
Slick Vi’k Obamaswampy’s “brahmin” is showing.
From your posts to Mega’s and God’s ears Sundance.
I say again, if you do not know who the enemy is, then you can not fight them. Sorry to be cryptic but truth has become unspeakable. Put your faith in God and the American people, not the charlatans that claim to have answers. The people have the power, division and strife are the weapons used to ensure the people don’t use that power.
Andy: The corollary to your statement is to know your friends. Most of the people who operate in America’s power bubbles are not your friends.
Is it only corporations that can hire foreign workers? I recall some headlines where individuals tried to employ foreign workers for work around their personal residence and it was highly illegal. Is it only the privileged class who are allowed to hire these people?
It is my understanding that the H1B visa is for people with at least a bachelors degree or some thing comparable for tech and industry not for someone to take care of your lawn or clean your house.
PgtndThinker: H1-B visa applicants need US sponsors and someone (i.e., a company) to pay fees to immigration attorneys. It costs money to hire H1-B applicants. These visas were used by foreign PhD students studying in the US and seeking employment in scientific and technical disciplines. That was my experience with the program, when I was running a start-up biotech company.
I don’t know your biotech situation, but many small businesses I know of were denied H1-B due to not having the financial and labor strength on paper to support/sponsor the H1-B hires. It always seemed more of a big business type of government offering compared to small businesses.
It’s a foregone conclusion that the reason for the H1B is lower wages, cheap help.
I thought having a Department of Government Efficiency,DOGE, was brilliant. And that Musk was a great choice but, thats when I thought Musk was really on board with MAGA.
But now I can see Musk Vivik annd team are just pretending and why am I not surprised.
It is better for us to just release Musk and Vivik because they have self interest that’s makes them untrustworthy.
MAGA should let Trump know right now it’s thumbs down for those two both Musk and Vivik; we don’t need them to head up DOGE cause we don’t trust them now.
Thank you for pointing out that President Trump’s businesses do not use H1B visa foreign workers. I would also observe that these businesses are going concerns that are profitable without subsidy.
The tech firms that use H1B visa workers are often heavily subsidized by tax cuts and infrastructure investments by local, state, and federal agencies. The incentive packages given to them to locate in our communities are well-publicized. And when they bring in foreign workers, it further creates an economic impact as those people consume resources in the local area. We thought they would give jobs to our peeps.
Can we continue to afford giving subsidies to these businesses? Right now, the federal budget deficit is 40 percent of revenues. Local taxes are through the roof. Johnny is still living in Mom’s basement, and we are essentially paying these tech firms to bring in foreigners.
I think it’s better that Trump doesn’t give away much right now. Wait until he’s sworn in, then he can do a lot more without telegraphing his moves to his enemies. Because H1B isn’t a bad idea, but the program needs a serious overhaul in order to force companies to hire Americans first. Those companies desperately do NOT want that, so whatever strategies Trump may suggest today will be sabotaged by the tech firms and their lackeys working in the bureaucracy.
“If Making America Great Again does not benefit working Americans, then what exactly is the point?”
(was “merit based” immigration in the platform as a Trojan horse?). Seems the spider senses called for more specifics for the platform drafters. Did we just see and read what we wanted to see and read or was the preservation of H1b hiding in plain sight.
A united front on the border, deportations, the wars, Ukraine, C19, vaccine accountability, budgeting, the 36T debt, election integrity, paper ballots, and general accountability for J6, assassination attempts, etc. remain vital issues demanding compromise. Mend don’t end H1b. sorry but I am on team unity here,
if ending H1b was specifically in the 2024 platform, the story plays differently.
It’s a start.
Well now, isn’t that interesting! A policy suggested a very long time ago!
Very interesting, unfortunately Musk has sealed his fate with two words, “F*** YOU!”
In the face…
Yes. And, the fee should go into a superfund to educate citizen students in STEM fields. Incentivize STEM education for citizens.
And, a large tariff on their country of origin for H-1B recipients. And, H-1B recipients must have a one term time limit. And, must train their citizen replacements before they leave and go home.
Sounds like a tariff to me.
As another poster mentioned earlier, Musk – rat is proposing a “fix” after being called out on his original position.
I think we should all wait until we get a clearer picture of what is actually going on.
These instant crisis stories have a tendency to be flat wrong. Not saying it is wrong, mind you.
It’s just that personally, I’m adopting a “wait and see” attitude.
Bingo….right there with you.
Pyraran: Yours is the right approach.
vance is a pagan in indian pagan clothing… a true Christian would never do that….
Many Christians live in India. They wear Indian clothing. A cultural clothing item doesn’t mean pagan. Now I am not saying that Vance is a true Christian. I cannot see into his heart. But we shouldn’t automatically assume he isn’t a true Christian because he wore Indian clothing at what looks like his wedding.
Maybe he is just honoring his wife culture..
This whole issue has been simmering for years…and years.
Referencing Sundance’s apt metaphor, the pot has finally boiled and the milk has spilled over…what a mess!!
There are so many facets to this discussion which have been ably addressed by commenters here.
For a start, foul ideologies have been embedded in a decaying American education system to such an extent that remedial numeracy and literacy courses are offered in many of our major institutes of higher learning, though these days I am loath to call them that. Merit in this country has become a dirty word in all fields. That has to change.
I won’t rehash the legitimate anger arising from sourcing jobs to foreigners or the humiliation in requiring those whose jobs have been ripped from them having to train their replacements. That in and of itself is cruel and downright immoral in my view.
But what very much disturbs me at this moment is the virtual silence from the man who has promised he is in the corner for the working American…and who has pledged it is they who are his first priority.
Don’t think it is only the NY Post that has run with this….it’s on every site and in every paper.
The impression given, outside of the gut punch it is meant to give, is that President Trump is not on top of this, that he has ceded his authority and voice to Musk and Ramaswamy et al whose interests for this nation are becoming clearer as the days drag on.
The arguments are raging, becoming more hyperbolic and, frankly, unhinged in tone…looking at you Musk.
President Trump would be wise to speak up and quickly. If it takes one of his press conferences or an interview to make clear where he stands, then he best get on it. He’s the boss, this visa issue is existential for the jobs of American citizens, and his “apprentices” are getting too big for their britches.
Who’s running this new show come January 20, 2025?
There are untold numbers of President Trump’s haters in the media and political enemies elsewhere who will take every opportunity to cripple his agenda for our nation.
He needs to waste no time in rectifying this perception…publicly and soon.
Musk isn’t the only one that is “unhinged”.
People need to take a deep breath and settle down – President Trump has always been clear about reforming H1b.
To repeat…it is the perception of Musk and Ramaswamy as speaking for President Trump’s views and policies on on this which needs to be put to bed.
Further, I do not discount that while he has spoken many times about reforming H1B, there are too many who simply do not listen.
A calm word reassurance would not go amiss for those who don’t.
He’s not being clear now.
Perhaps it’s a drain to spend time reacting when he can wait till January 20, 2025 to act with power. This will settle. I can wait a few weeks.
I adhere to the adage that silence would imply consent.
People make up their own stories. It wouldn’t take much. A publicly issued statement in the vein of the one he gave during his first term about American jobs remaining the priority would suffice.
Silence is Golden –
Proverbs 17:27 – He who restrains his words has knowledge,
And he who has a cool spirit is a man of understanding.
Proverbs 21:23 – He who guards his mouth and his tongue,
Guards his soul from troubles.
Amos 5:13 – Therefore at such a time the prudent person keeps silent, for it is an evil time.
Trump leads. Elon and Vivek bleed out from the mouth.
Yes…wise, as the Word of God always is.
It seems, I would suggest, egos are driving those two who are (as I’ve said before) way way out over their skis. Perhaps a quiet sit down to define the policy and the messaging thereof would be a good thing. Along with a reminder that they represent President Trump’s agenda….or should.
(It also occurs to me that this whole kerfuffle ” will be used to undermine DOGE and its portfolio.)
The sooner Musk and Ramaswamy understand that the public page they need to be on is President Trump’s the better. Thrashing out differences really should be done in private. Personal agendas not withstanding.
It’s going to be an interesting four years…
MAWA: Make Americans Work Again………………Americans first all others to the back.
The H1 is a program that has been abused and overused. I saw that when I worked in the foreign service. That said, if the schools do not produce what companies need, what are they going to do? Hire an H1 postulant.
(2015) President Trump:
“We graduate two times more Americans with STEM degrees each year than find STEM jobs, yet as much as two-thirds of entry-level hiring for IT jobs is accomplished through the H-1B program”
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2024/12/28/president-elect-donald-trump-i-have-always-been-in-favor-of-h-1b-visas/
(2022 data):
“The availability of workers with STEM degrees also suggests no “shortage.” ACS data indicate that in 2022, there were 5.4 million working-age people with a science degree not working in any STEM job; among technology degree holders, it was 1.6 million; for engineering, it was 3.7 million; and it was 825,000 in math. On its face, it appears America has enough STEM-trained people, but a large share cannot get jobs in their field”
…”If demand for STEM workers was outstripping supply, then wages and benefits would be rising rapidly as employers try desperately to hold on to scarce workers and recruit new ones. It is Economics 101. The lack of rapid increases in compensation is clear evidence that there is no “shortage” of STEM workers despite all the rhetoric to the contrary.”
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/3155173/new-data-show-no-stem-worker-shortage/
Look here folks,,calm down. How about we stay focused, first things first,,eh?? Look at these issues at a later date. Right now we need all on deck
Actually, no. Trump needs to know, now, before programs get developed, that Americans are not happy about this subject. He needs to understand how important this subject is and that he needs to get it right.
Arm chair generals, trust Trump/Vance, “Geniuses At Work.” Good grief, guys, Trump’s not even in office yet. Hang tight. The rest of us yobs, carry on.
The smoking light is lit, smoke ’em if you’ve got ’em. Oo-ahh!
That is all.
Is Musk’s so called cost cutting expertise due to use of H1-b visa holders over American workers? If so his mirage will be exposed and show that he is just another CEO trying to take advantage of the labor pool for his companies’ benefit.
Good question.
When anyone comes to America for work (permanent or temporary), that work should always be paid at the prevailing American wage. That would eliminate any cost advantage of hiring foreign workers. A hefty fee per worker would also help cut down on abuse, I’m just not sure who should get the fee because it could still be abused.
I’m hesitant to comment on this because when it comes down to it I’ve just been too busy livin’ life to be all that versed in political strategy. I keep reasonably well informed, but in the end I put my faith in PDJT to have my back and work out the nuances.
That being said, my intuition (hopefully not fantasy) tells me it’s very likely (I hope) there is some strategic choreography happening here.
It seems to me that with the whole cloth of immigration (legal and illegal) being on the table starting 1/20/2025 there might be some strategic wisdom to getting in front of this H1B tentacle now.
There’s little I can do other than watch how this plays out. My confidence in President Trump does not waver, though I know he is but a man facing a behemoth. EM and VR bear watching, but in the end I hope they can be counted on. Will they pass the MAGA litmus test with 100% scores? Of course not. Will anybody?
What I do know is there is a lot of fanning the flames of this brouhaha. I tend toward the optimistic view that PDJT has it all in hand. This early conflagration is a controlled burn preparing for the real fire.
It is interesting that this occurred shortly after Mar-o-Lago meetings with Big-Tech.
No such thing as a coincidence….
Not in politics, anyway.
Freedom Ring: That’s why the timing of this “instantly prominent” topic is highly suspect.
Tech Billionaires don’t want to pay their fair share to American society
where have I heard this before??
Starting off with “referring to the H1B Visa” is subjective .. Just because that’s what the author wrote does not mean that’s what the conversation was about.. The “reporter” may have intentional misdirected the subject in an effort to get a conflated response.. I’m sick of these jackasses
Janeka: I agree. The manufactured hysteria is annoying and tiresome.
I would like to see a list of companies using the visa system. Boycott their products. A third party system would potentially have some bargaining power. Robert Kennedy is an example as Trump certainly felt he needed him to get to the win. Of concern – will Trump at some point dump Kennedy now that he isn’t needed? To trust anyone is fool’s folly. The only thing politicians understand is raw power. I worship no man. In my lifetime the deep cesspool we presently find ourselves in has been dug by both parties. The Years of a Republican Presidents weren’t perfect except in the minds of those who are unwilling to see that both parties are guilty of destroying America.
If the pollsters had not lied, Trump would not have needed any of this liberal clowns.
Musk’s point many times, was his support to bring in the 0.01% of the top engineers. The way the H1B is designed, is it’s impossible to find those from the many others, and further the system is corrupted.
I’d advocate for a reform of the H1B system. Not an utter removal of it.
Have a fixed amount of H1B allowed. Say, 100,000 per year. Currently it’s half a million I think. Have the companies who want to hire them vow and fight for them at auction and pay real money over other companies to get who they want. If they think this or that engineer is so gifted, then pay for it. The money the Gov get will be used to sustain the Immigration-associated departments.
That’ll fix it.
No. That’s more than they are supposed to get per year and they always get more than that number. So you are doing what for American workers in that negotiation?
We already have a visa for gifted and talented. It’s the O-1 visa. There is no limit on numbers. I have to assume Elon and Vivek know this since they are sooo much smarter than us.
If the H1B stays, the actual limit of 65,000 per year should be strictly enforced (its not now).
Also the companies should be required to have on the job training for Americans they say are too stupid. I’m pretty sure they have job training for visa holders, they may call it a”probation period” or something like this.
Plus, no undercutting american wages.
As Resident Biden famously said, “We’ve been patient, but our patience is wearing thin.”
They say the guy who speaks first loses. The tech oligarchs spoke first. We can infer then that Trump never made a promise to the tech oligarchs. Their rageful reaction implies he just made that point clear to them.
All is well.
UAW members are splitting off from corrupt union leadership and woke/corrupt corporatism. Now Trump is splitting IT employees off from the woke/corrupt tech oligarchs.
That’s how you build a new, durable political coalition. Trump will be gone in 4 years, but this will have a longer term political effect. Always look for multiple aspects of what Trump does, interlocked, with future leverages. He’s got that level of genius.
P.S. Lock Vance in a closet for 4 years.
I’ve noticed a lot of sinister sounding pop-ups on this site the last few weeks….
You need to change browsers, recommend Brave…
Although, my last post was held for approval for some unknown reasoning, I will post again. No explanation. Hummmm. Intersting.
As far as Trump is concerned: it appears he has been caught off guard by the blatant comments from musk and vivek, with some sacks. I thought their well printed comments were an insult, maddening, and proof–we should never trust anyone who is “new” to the crowd. We must verify their true natures, then perhaps trust. Obviously, this was a plot from the beginning. As far as Charlie Kirk goes: I think he spent way too much time trying to convince his followers that vivek and musk didn’t exactly mean what they wrote. I, for one, do not trust kirk.
Trump’s soft under belly is he wants to be liked. It is his thorn in the side sorta speak. I hope his quietness, will be spent on educating musk, vivek, sacks as to how the cow ate the cabbage.
The Post article is confusing because there are previous positions on the visa system on file. They deliberately misled the public, and they over estimated the love perceived for the 3 “musk”eteers. Never underestimate the American people.
Thank you Sundance for the update. blessings.
Please stop with the hair on fire about H1B.
‘Target of H-1B visa psyop is to destroy Elon, Vivek’s DOGE’
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/us/target-of-h-1b-visa-psyop-is-to-destroy-elon-viveks-doge-viral-claim-amid-maga-split/articleshow/116751756.cms
The Times of India. Lol. How appropriate.
From the Article :
“The MAGA universe saw a major implosion over the H-1 that started with the announcement of Sriram Krishnan” as the A.I Advisor.
The Timeline began on December 22, followed by a X post by “The Tech Workers” (a union opposed to A.I. and Hb Visas), then picked up and spread by Laura Loomis, who has been problematic for TeamTrump in the past.
Added benefit to those who are attempting to stop DOGE is the perception of bigotry to any person with Indian heritage or married to a person of Indian heritage. Quite a Nasty stew with a lot of swirling parts and none of it good for an incoming President that has a full table of things to get in order to go to work on January 20, 2025.
The opposition is winning this one with the aid of mini maga hysteria – I won’t be giving them any help.
Vance makes me very nervous. His ties to Silicon Valley, his wife who was a bicoastal attorney at big law firms, his pretense that he’s Appalachian as if he or his people dug coal, Ivy League grad, very young Senator that owes backers.
That being said – pretty much all politicians are compromised and suck.
The tech guys going big for Trump has made me nervous because they obviously have an agenda – technocracy, global governance, transhumanism, surveillance state, etc.
The big H1B fight had to happen. It’s better that it happens now before Donald Trump takes office, while there is time to sort the issue out before it metastasizes into a much larger issue for the future success of Trump’s second term.
Perception is reality. Regardless of any other decision on any other topic dear to the MAGA movement’s heart, Donald Trump has to understand that his decision on the H1B issue will set the public’s perception of his own personal committment to MAGA principles.
If Donald Trump caves in to Elon Musk and comes down on the side of Big Tech on the H1B issue, the public support he needs to move forward on other MAGA fronts will be very adversely and very severely affected.
PDJT has to be made to understand that among the most important of the many fights he will be facing as President, this particular fight is happening right here, right now, twenty days before he becomes president for a second time. If he loses the support of Elon Musk and the rest of the Big Tech oligarchs, let it happen now, not after he takes the oath of office.
What is the content you are advocating?
Restoring proper execution of H1B and various L1 visa processes (to include accountability for previous violations)? Or,
Directing private companies that they must hire only Americans since the reasoning in play here is that for every H1B hire there is an equivalent American alternative in terms of all the relevant decision variables?
Seems to me that the real underlying drivers, stripped of all the rhetoric, are income distribution (the future) and retributive justice (the past); the real outcomes. And that gov’t edict will direct these outcomes – not the market place, not the owners (risk takers in all of this) of capital. I think there is credence for these underlying drivers. I also think “be careful what you ask for”.
In politics, perception is reality.
Something makes me wonder if Musk is the bird dog flushing out the pheasants?
This whole thing makes no sense.
If the intent was to surface inherent conflicts while creating new ones – that has succeeded.
H1 should not exist. Period. Like many government programs.
This is a repeat of how decades ago construction crews were mostly Americans and they might pick up a few illegals in a pinch for some stuff.
Now you would be hard pressed to find a construction crew that speaks English let alone any Americans.
Now look at the corporations that run the medical systems, the nursing homes, food processing plants and who they hire.
Think about the Haitians in Springfield, Ohio.
Americans should be in ALL those jobs.
Yep. Try being underbid on jobs by rednecks with what used to be Bush/Cheney stickers that turned into Trump/Pence versions on their fancy diesels, with crews full of Central Americans who they don’t pay Workman’s Comp on..
I’m retired now.
This is why I got away from residential work and homebuilders.
Seems like it would be prudent for the Trump team to put out a release highlighting exactly what Sundance has written here. Yes his companies use H2Bs, No his companies do not use H1Bs. I’m sure many people are not even aware of the difference.
Maybe he is referring to his tenants?
“However, if you go to the Dept of Labor website, search or download the database of H1B employment, specifically filtering to Trump’s various companies, what you will discover is that Trump Inc doesn’t use the H1B visa system at all. [Check for Yourself Here]”
Doesn’t work. I mean, the _link_ works (I presume), but putting the name “trump” in name, as you have, returns neither positive nor zero results. That aside, I don’t know what Trump names his many companies, so a simple name search likely wouldn’t reveal much anyway. As for the rest of your explanations…
I’m not slogging through all that. If he’s really doesn’t use them, it should be a pretty straightforward thing to see. No mental loops and comparisons and searches and explanations and conspiracies… He either does or he doesn’t. And going by his record of NOT ending H1B abuses _during his first term_ — yes, there was a _slight_ drop over his first four years, which hardly ending abuses, but this was also from an all-time high of H1B issues _on his watch_ — it is, in all likelihood, that Trump does favor H1B.
You’ll attack and/or ban me for as a “lefty agent troll” or some such, for pointing out the _plain and simple_ facts, I’m sure. You, or your toady Harrison or some other “treeper” who refuses to just admit that Trump’s a fraud, just like the rest of them. Have it, I don’t care.
But I’ll wait and see. I know he won’t do anything significant (if anything), but I’ll wait. I’ll only accept that Trump isn’t a fraud when — and only when! — the number of H1Bs issued drops into the _negative_, by a _substantial amount_. Until then, you do your mental and verbal gymnasties and pretend its ME that’s the fraud, and not First Lady Donna Trump and President Elon.
LOL….
The only thing that is apparent, is you would rather see the Commies in charge.
And you rage post….
Then insult the best President there has ever been. Which leads most to ignore your rants and name calling.
Enjoy, Comrade.
“angry Saxon” is not what Kipling wrote.
https://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/beginning.html
“You’ll attack and/or ban me for as a “lefty agent troll” ”
Don’t know about “banning”, but you’re certainly a left wing troll calling Trump a “fraud” over a single issue.
No person will be 100% aligned with any other person politically. President Trump is the first American president to hold office since Reagan, and the best president since Eisenhower. Given the conditions under which he operates and the sellout of the entire federal government it’s safe to call him the best president in history since George Washington.
Oh, and “CivilIan”, you are a fraud, 100%.
As I said, attack away. You people mean nothing to me.
👎 Finally found the thumbs down button. LOL.
Dude just go away.
This sight is MAGA territory. Elon, Vivek or no other asshat will change that.
Well…..’Alrighty then!’
Elon Musk is being the attention-loving showman that he is. The media are doing what the media do. President Trump thrives on this sort of ginned-up controversy.