A rather odd situation all things considered. A FISA Court opinion, based on 702 modifications and submissions to the court from the DOJ, dated December 6, 2019, has been released to the public (release date Sept. 4, 2020) [pdf link].
The opinion date is December 6, 2019, which was three days before the IG report was released on December 9, 2019…. which sets up an interesting situation. This report is based on the DOJ and intelligence equity holders (DOJ, FBI, NSA and NCTC) telling the FISA court what compliance modifications they had made to the FISA 702 process.
The “702” topic relates to the electronic communication of American citizens. “702” is literally the designation for a process that intersects with an American, at home or abroad, who is protected from warrantless searches and seizures by the fourth amendment. By now everyone is a little more familiar with the FISA-702 importance.
The primary issues involve intelligence gathering by DOJ, FBI and the National Counter-terrorism Center (NCTC), and exploitation of electronic metadata searches that capture the communication and private information of American citizens without a search warrant. This 702 issue has been the subject of multiple efforts (albeit some rather obtuse refinements) by the U.S. intelligence apparatus to be in compliance with the legal restrictions and protections afforded by the fourth amendment. So far, no process put into place has been effective at stopping the abuse.
In my opinion there is a way to stop the abuse through punishment for unlawful exploitation of the system by intelligence users; literally put legal consequences as the teeth within the compliance system and jail users who violate collection and minimization rules. However, congress and the intelligence community, writ large, have refused to put legal accountability into the process.
While the 702 database search query issue is not directly attached to the fraudulent FISA application used against Carter Page, this December 6, 2019, FISC opinion is literally three days before IG Michael Horowitz told the FISA court about the wrongdoing and misconduct in the four Carter Page FISA application submissions. Anyone who is concerned about the abuse of the fourth amendment should review these reports to gain a better understanding of the scale and scope of a Pandora’s box process.
I’m slowly going through the 2019 report/opinion because often prior reports (the redacted stuff) are reconciled in new releases. Example: One previously held back component is this new admission about NCTC exploits:
One of the key elements and purposes of the FISA opinion can be captured on page #17 of the report:
Here’s the full report…. still making notes for a more comprehensive review:
A complicated business this, untying a tangled web of lies and deceit.
but the trump administration, specifically the justice department, is now well aware of sundance and his granular forensic analysis. perhaps these releases are designed to fill in some gaps, ignite some fireworks.
But do you really believe that, jeff?
Yes, with a bottom line here being the fact that no matter what kind of new rules or regulations replete with ramifications may be implemented the old adage that ‘locks are only there to keep honest people out’ will still apply.
Our so-called “government representatives” and their bureaucratic counterparts have more than proven to us already that they are not those honest people that locks are for.
IOW, it’s pretty obvious that the vast majority of them give a rip about our Fourth Amendment rights.
I ran a database once upon a time and the little I’ve read about the supposed problem with the “about” query that had to be “shut down” has always bugged me.
Too many Judges and Congressional Representatives have been compromised by the misuse of the NSA database / The Hammer
OK, let’s move on. Some “white privilege” training will solve these minor problems.
Trump is removing funding for white privilege seminars in government, so we are screwed. What will we do? /sarc
Elect Biden to protect us?
Actually Comrade Kamala, as we all know how well she protected citizen’s rights.
10 years in prison for defacing or removing a federal monument…..10 years in prison for abusing, lying, misrepresenting, facts on a FISA warrant.
Sounds good to me! But, who will be the first one to find and end around… because that’s what they are really good at.
TheHumanCondition: Can anyone say Plea Deal, that is if they get caught in the first place or find some way to make the crime only a rule violation. As you say, it’s what they really do well.
By directing the NSA to ‘err on the side of’ granting, rather than restricting the FBI’s access, combined with the shear volume OF requests from FBI Contractors, they make it a practical impossibility for the NSA to conduct a case by case, thorough review of each request.
Simply don’t provide the budget or manpower to the NSA, to conduct such reviews, and these ‘requirements’ become meaningless buerocratic mumbo jumbo, to say “See, we’re being REASONABLE.
The Courts are SUPPOSED to be concerned with protecting against GOVERNMENT abuse of our God given and enumerated rights, specifically the 4th amendment.
This SHOULD read the NSA should ‘err’ on the OTHER side, of NOT releasing the info, unless/until FBI can make a convincing case.
I mean, IF they are gonna,”go there”, and they did. They are giving themselves “cover” for giving the FBI unlimited access to the nsa database, licence to ‘steal’.
Agreed, putting in yet MORE layers of scrutiny, means NOTHING. Accountability is the only thing that could possibly work, and frankly I don’t even think that is adequate safeguard.
After all, the prisons are full of people who knew, full well that they were committing a crime, and what the consequences would be, and proceeded anyway.
And asking the same people committing the crimes, to hold themselves accountable, is absurd.
So, lets see the granular details,…
These statements are completely upside down. Who actually wrote this crap? Just coming here for the first time tonight.
What crap are you trying to describe?
Just what Dutch is writing. In the first paragraph. Rather than err on the side of restricting invasive surveillance, they are condoning using more, I guess…totally against limited government, Fourth Amendment protocol.
I’m confused. WHO is “just coming here for the first time, tonite.”
If its the poster, we already have a poster with WSB screen name, I believe?
And, WHAT “crap”? The comment you are responding to, or the,FISC statements quoted from the article?
If you are, indeed new, perhaps you should go to the HOME page, and read the “guidelines for posting”, and then perhaps spend a little while “lurking”, to get a feel for this blog?
Dutch… I am the real WSB…just commented that your CAPTURED quote on the FISA was upside down on Constitutional law. Not sure who the other commenter is…I do not recoginze the moniker.
Sorry, I wasn’t sure if you meant that or not.
And YES, its absolutely upside down, which is what,I was saying in my first post.
That the,FISC judges would put this in writing, is further confirmation we need to abolish the Court, and retire these judges.
Of COARSE you err on the side of NOT giving the personal info on Americans, NOT err on the,side of giving it!
The Judiciary are SUPPOSED to be a guardian of individuals rights.
The BLINDNESS displayed, by them writing this in an opinion, a directive is mind boggling!
Betond words! What happened to the FOREIGN in Foreign Surveillance!!!! This was always a dupe!
End it all!
Its Pandoras box, and it simply represents too much power to be in ANYBODYS hands.
Barrs answer was to make a new requirement that the,AG will have to ‘sign off’ on any future FISA warrants on U.S. Citisens.
First off, what kind of hubris makes him think I trust him? (I DON’T).
Secondly, what about a future AG like Holder?
Thirdly, we were,assured there would be LAYERS of ‘safeguards’ and reviews by teams, and we have seen that was all hogwash, and warrants were signed off without reading them.
Nope, burn it down.
All BS, and how does any Attorney General wield that much singular power?
Yes, I followed the empty promises made at the time they set up these programs, and we have all seen just how hollow they were.
So, they are saying “Well, yeah our earlier promises to you, that we would put in safeguards to protect American citisens, …er turned out to be,…er insufficient.
But NOW, we’ve got Chris,Wray personally conducting ethics training for FBI agents, and Barr is going to ‘sign off’ on FISA warrants,. So,..”no worries”,…Right?
Not hardly. Barrs #1 job assignment from McConnell; protect the Uniparty from exposure.
#2 Protect and maintain FISA.
I trust McConnell and Barr, as far as I can throw my ten ton truck.
Same. Spit!
I see your spit, and raise you with projectile vomit.
Man, WE, the People were SO asleep at the switch, for SO long!
We JUST wanted to do our jobs, raise our families, and thought if we just voted ‘straight R’, THAT would be enough.
Once again, THANK YOU, GOD for PDJT, and for allowing me to live during such momentous times!
Grrrrrrrrr……yes!
If they really want to protect the rights of American citizens, well, let’s just leave it there.
Yeah cause by this statement alone, they make their priorities known, and protecting American citisens rights,….shore ain’t at the top of their list!
Dutchman: Enough Said: “And asking the same people committing the crimes, to hold themselves accountable, is absurd.”
…err on the side of the FBI…., same as “six ways to Sunday”
We need a list of the 16,000 persons.
please help. I started to read the document. Can’t do it right now. What is the 16,000 persons referring to? Thanks in advance.
illegal.
not only this. this opinion shows how the FBI searched just about any situation they wanted (maintenance crew, job hires, complaintants)
they didnt redact the number 16,000, but they did redact a specific term related to the 16,000.
Why ? is it talking about a group of people, supporters?
Don’t know who the 16,000 person were.
Pg 67
“NSD assesses that the queries for seven of those persons satisfied the querying standard because of their ties to a (REDACTED)investigation.”
(The World’s Premiere law enforcement agency apparently defines a 0.0004375 targeting success rate as “PREMIERE”)
“Based on the facts reported, the FBI’s position that the queries for all 16,000 persons
were reasonably likely to retrieve foreign-intelligence information or evidence of a crime is
unsupportable”
(Well that didn’t long….”PREMIERE” is actually a success rate of precisely 0.0000000)
Sounds more like political surveillance, financial insider info seeking and investigative throwing enough sh¡t against the wall that something should stick. What’s the metric for success? Blackmail results? Dollar value of financial gains? Prosecution success? Asking for a friend.
Ad rem, Good grief, my browser is glitching out! I’m so sorry! The address doesn’t even match CTH!
Getting all in order for the Communist takeover of America for the globalist hedgemony.
I am tired- so tired. I want my country back. I want our government to go back to just the necessities. I want most of the Agencies gone. I want good just people back in charge.
Sounds more like political surveillance, financial insider info seeking and investigative throwing enough sh¡t against the wall that something should stick. What’s the metric for success? Blackmail results? Dollar value of financial gains? Prosecution success? Asking for a friend.
Sounds more like political surveillance, financial insider info seeking and investigative throwing enough sh¡t against the wall that something should stick. What’s the metric for success? Blackmail results? Dollar value of financial gains? Prosecution success? Asking for a friend.
Seeems every time more information about “The Coup” comes out, it’s followed by more information designed to hide and obfuscate not only what came out, but what’s going to come out as well. There doesn’t appear to be a bottom to this barrel of rot!
old deplorable owl: Not only deplorable, but wise, you are. The purpose of all these arcane processes, procedures, forms and the releases of evidence thereof, is not to clarify, but, to confuse. In the words of Vonnegut, it’s all a pack of foma.
We may be deplorable, but they are delusional. Some with dementia.
Old deplorable: If you recall, Trump told us it was much worse than we could imagine. I shudder to think how much worse than we already know. I don’t know how our President keeps his cool with all of this. He is a very patient man.
“put legal consequences as the teeth within the compliance system and jail users who violate collection and minimization rules. However, congress and the intelligence community, writ large, have refused to put legal accountability into the process.”
Probably because the “intelligence community” is blackmailing a sufficient number of congress critters to effect any meaningful changes…..
Could that be because so many in the leadership positions are using/have used information illegally obtained? The IC isn’t the Intelligence Community, it is the Illicit Community. Intelligence is their name, blackmail is their game!
28angelica: By George, you’ve nailed it.
Deplorable Infidel: Blackmail is such a broad term, and some people immediately think it’s some sordid exploit in a congress member’s past they don’t want to be exposed. Considering the moral character of many in congress, it’s a distinct possibility.
However, I think there is another type. They take the easy road of going along with the lobbyist money for “campaign” contributions. There is also information on an opponent gleaned by nefarious means in a tough primary or jobs and easy money on corporate boards for a family member. It’s not technically illegal, but you have a compromised member. They are in too deep and obligated to their benefactors to do anything except what they are expected to do.
Because the Alphabets were spying on and BLACKMAILING ANY & EVERYONE who had oversight or could possibly exert any influence over their operations… If Chief Justice Roberts doesn’t comply then they out his adoptions as illegal and then Roberts is charged for human trafficking, and then I guess there are court hearings regarding the charges when you adopt the children of Ireland or Scotland through a South American Country.
Most of these people under the thumb of the Agencies MUST be tired of hiding it all… Can you imagine the sheer number of lies you would have to tell yourself everyday just to feign a smile? Especially when you consider the positions they have become ensconced within? Are they so delusional that they think the people do not know they are compromised?
Will the LA appeals court ruling the NSA program illegal have any real affect on the situation…
I know it is an off shoot of a very different case.
I think the only thing that will ever have a real and lasting impact on the situation is a TERM TWO of President Donald J. Trump.
” So far, no process put into place has been effective at stopping the abuse.”
And none can be. Only eliminating them, or at least their power, will work.
I respectfully disagree. There is a process that will work. Hold the perpetrators legally accountable and this will stop. Without repurcussions the behavior will not change.
Who watches the watchers? There are already legal consequences on the books. This hasn’t worked so far. It’s the club.
anotherworriedmom: How would we know if there was abuse? Everything is done in secret. The people spied upon don’t even know. It was a fluke they got caught this time.
Admiral Rogers just happened to be honest enough to investigate the unreasonable numbers of queries in the run up to the election. Who knows how long it had been going on that didn’t raise any questions?
Who knew the fbi allowed outside contractors unfettered access to the NSA databases? Who knows what they used it for to bribe, extort or enrich themselves?
Who knew the fisc was a rubber stamp for unverified information and that one fisa warrant could include spying on thousands of people?
As long as there are corrupt people who have a motive to use it for their own gain, there is no way to keep it from being abused. The odds of being caught are low. The whole system is based on the honesty of the people using it. The avarice and politically motivated evil we have seen from many people in the highest positions in government shows honesty is in short supply.
Yawn. The more words, the more a lawyer can say BUT BUT. Lots of words — sound and fury, signifying nothing. Degrees of EXPERTS: BS (Bull sh-t), MS (More sh-t), and a PhD (Pile it higher and deeper). And I have a BS, MS and MBA. But mine are in engineering. Our proof is in whether the plane fly’s or crashes. Lawyers and, so called soft sciences ( economics, social science and the hilariously named political science), are mere opinion.
There is no proof this intelligence has really worked in any significant ways. I challenge them to prove me wrong. Our agencies are ALWAYS “surprised” about every significant hostile activity in the last almost 50 years since FISC was established.
Let the our enemies scheme. When they attack we massively respond economically, and as necessary, militarily. Save this big waste of money. This whole fiasco surrounding spying on Trump proves their utter incompetence!
Some Democrats years ago were right, this is a system waiting to violate our rights. But now since it politically has been useful, they are it’s biggest supporters along with the Neo-cons.
Agree! We need to roll back the Patriot Act. We need to disallow spying on American citizens. Period. End. Dot. Yes, I realize it’s a “useful tool” in tracking down traitors to the Republic. But, if it remains legal, then the next time we get an Obama Marxist in the White House, or a Clinton-type, we are screwed *AGAIN*. We were barely saved from total destruction by the Trump presidency. I can’t see allowing the spying to continue. Sorry Mr. Barr. They ability/capability to spy on American citizens needs to end. Go after people the old fashioned way.
somebodysgramma says: Agree! We need to roll back the Patriot Act. We need to disallow spying on American citizens. Period. End. Dot.
Correct! Humans are fallible and nothing will change that. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Is about risk and rewards. And the risk as illustrated is the destruction of Republic of the United States of America to which we are quite close.
It is NOT legal to plot to overthrow the President fraudulently.
You don’t prosecute the weeds, all the malfeasances — large or small –, separately. You prosecute them all together, for conspiracy to overthrow the lawful government — not to mention for promulgating a false cult that promotes universal insanity based only and falsely on revenge and the overruling desire to control all, including inalienable individual rights.
If Barr were honest, they would all already be in jail.
It seems to me that being required to obtain a court order is the key. There is no need for these people to spy wantonly on US citizens since if they have evidence of need, they can get a court order like everyone else does. The only reason to have this ability is to get away with over-riding the rights of US citizens.
Not sure this will interest you, but I thought I could at least bring it to your attention based on your post:
All my best,
Simple Citizen
Let me also highly recommend this book.
The bad guys have been active in the Colleges of Education, for several decades.
As PDJT says, we need to bring back patriotic education. IOW we need “nation building” here at home. That will stop rot such as FISA abuse.
Between indoctrination, NOT education and the enemedia propoganda (constant and infectious) there has been massive damage done to the PEOPLE. Criminal, intentional damage. I see it every day.
A little ray of hope I see too though, is that I keep interacting with millennials who ask me if I am voting for Trump, telling me that it’s very important that I do so when I reply that I am not sure, why?
Then after their speech, I tell them I was just curious to hear their answer, and that I wouldn’t vote for anyone but Trump no matter who else was on the ballot. This happened to me again yesterday at the optometrist. He couldn’t tell me who he was voting for, but somehow (wink wink) I knew.
Bill Binney’s program already proved thid doesn’t work. His did. Thinthread.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Binney_(intelligence_official)
jnr2d2:
I wouldn’t be so quick to deprecate legal and properly grounded electronic surveillance. One of these days, possibly, Director Ratcliff might be at liberty to reveal certain info that justifies its purpose.
Leaving aside certain methods and abuses, FBI director J. Edgar Hoover successfully mapped out the communist plot, as well as its main actors. Knowing that info got Robert Kennedy killed, and motivated Crooked Hillary to spend her sweet time going through filched FBI files before she lost them, but then found them in her closet.
it is fintech politically attractive.
just want to make that point clear.
even in lawful practice…(which is infinitely impossible to imagine out of the gate since fisa and fisa like spy powers directly violate 4th!)..even in lawful practice…its a great deal of lucrative contracts GLOBALLY with the obvious crony and nepotism that creates private wealth…with zero real watchers…(see we are doing national security…its all good in the neighborhood!). its trillions! and that’s just the lawful vanilla stuff.
where the real serious money operates is using this spy power collected material for UNLAWFUL activity…premptive trade options…futures…basically walllstreet and. commercial Banks and insurers. all pay to play… made possible by the tens of thousands of private contractors who broker the data… Congress and other officials who have access also use it to steer lucrative deals and scams. lots of dark pool money… mostly offshore and tied to non profits and foundations and trusts.
whenever someone mentions the interest of secret spy police state apparatus….it should always be considered a political interest and thus massive quantities of private wealth generated for.ONLY the very tiny percentage of insiders who have access..
that’s what secret private data reall means.
trillions.
you privacy is NEVER a consideration.
fact: it should occur to anyone that is willing to notice that Congress exclusive federal thrift savings investment product has always outperformed major market indices… and has never had a negative year. 40 years and running… and pays extraordinary returns… and offers what are essentially zero risk investment products… one of which is the continued credit derivative swaps…yes…junk mortgage bonds..up or down in the real market…either way… bank is made.
want in? sorry… its an exclusive private club and you ain’t in it. . your Private data is the fuel. and we are fools to allow it to continue.
welcome to amerika.
not mine… not yours..
theirs.
they will never give up the spy powers.
if it comes to it… they will just invent another hoax and threat.
it’s what THEY DO.
from crisis…comes wealth.
that’s the business model.
https://4thamendmentrestored.com/
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/12/15/the-fisa-conundrum/
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/01/14/understanding-fisa-7021617-and-how-it-was-used-in-2016/
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/04/23/the-obama-use-of-fisa-702-as-a-domestic-political-surveillance-program/
White Board, can you remind me when we ever FISA this in the first place? I must have missed the opportunity to vote against it.
It’s kind of a “start asking the right f’ing questions thing” to me…
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) was introduced on May 18, 1977, by Senator Ted Kennedy and was signed into law by President Carter on 25 October 1978.
to address the “nixon spying” they wanted congressional and judicial oversight of the surveillance tools.
great oversight right. the FBI told the FISC to go F themselves.
I say get the FBI out of the terrorism business. let the military and CIA handle that.
FBI removed from all NSA DATABASE acess.
WhiteBoard: I couldn’t agree more. The fbi got too carried away with all the power given them via the Patriot Act. Add corrupt leaders like Mueller and Comey and the entire culture of the institution was changed. That kind of power with basically any oversight is wide open to abuse.
It was more than just “Nixon spying” (a reaction to Watergate) it was also the results of the Church (Senate) and Pike (House) Committees (and others) digging into the activities of the CIA and Hoover’s FBI abuses.
FISA (and the creation of the FISC) was actually a big win for the FBI:
It made “illegal” spying LEGAL, by giving the imprimatur of JUDICIAL oversight.
The main problem though is FEDERAL JUDGES are NOT INTELLIGENCE AGENTS and are not responsible NOR ACCOUNTABLE for NATIONAL SECURITY decisions.
Especially ones that go bad.
This puts them in a deferential position and hence their “rubber stamp”.
Comey said it best to Anderson Cooper:
“We don’t SPY………we do COURT-ORDERED surveillance.”
Indeed. One fall out of the Church committee was the FISA court and the Gang of 8 oversight structure. What was uncovered with the doctrine of ‘plausible deniability’ wherein the Agency would (purport) keep the Executive in the dark, or at least poorly documented, in order to give the political executive – plausible deniability.
As to the Court itself – it is a special ex parte court staffed with a federal judges – not just an administrative law judge (ALJ) – one argument being that a full blown federal judge would have all his powers to keep the ex parte process – honest. But as we now know from the Clinesmith matter, the gatekeepers are not taking this job seriously. Or maybe there is something going on behind the scenes – but in the ordinary course – altering documents (material changes), sponsoring it as sworn testimony to a federal judge, in a nutshell defrauding and misleading a federal court, resulting in the illegal surveillance of many Americans (the 2 hop rule), the Court would use it’s inherent power of contempt to jail, disbar, fine, etc etc typically in response to a ‘show cause’ order from the Court. I can’t help believe this if the shoe were on the other foot – a Republican lawyer pulling this FISA fraud to spy on Biden, the judge would have nothing short of volcanic in punishing said lawyer. Furthermore, under the Patriot Act survailance system, the FISA role has changed to not just safe keep the warrant process but also the look back warrant enable via the database. Does it really matter how many procedures, checking, triple checking, whatever, when you have the gatekeeper (the FISA judge) not holding people in the strictest account?
One thing I sometimes wonder is – how did the Gang of 8 end up with one honest man?
That would be, of course, Devin Nunes.
Who screwed up and let that happen?
Look over here…no, no look over there, there it goes! Run, you can catch it….
Let’s see if some dots can be connected: Biden leaves the basement…after his people secure control over the traveling reporters, but someone catches a picture of his left hand where it appears (a good guess?) a black and blue mark which might have come from an IV needle. Biden gives answers to special questions–only for him and served on a silver platter with a Louisville slugger attached. What a home run he presented!
Meanwhile President Trump is attacked via a military slur he is said to have made. Recall a couple of weeks prior some generals made some statements about not interfering with domestic politics. Where did such a statement come from? Under what reasoning? Trump hints the Atlantic smear article may have something to do with the ousted military man Kelly.
About four or five weeks ago it was reported that former SOS Colin Powell intends to vote for Biden. Why would this be made public?
Have you ever smelled a rat? Like in Mafia parlance? Ever felt you were being set up? Never let a crisis go to waste! What kind of person makes such a statement? Why? The China virus could be being gamed out by our Department of Defense to learn just how complacent people have become to dictates from so called authorized elected officials. That’s a wild idea, almost fruitcake.
I thought Barack would beg MIchelle to be number 2 with Biden…but, I guess the preppy life with those millions in the bank has a serious lifestyle hold on his world and hers. You know Barack hates Donald Trump’s guts–you know he does!
You know that Barack knows Joe ain’t got it upstairs at all, he is a shell of what he was. Biden’s wife knows this better than anyone, but old Joe wants one last run at that gold ring. Old Joe is not going to make it to the stage for that prize.
Kamala got a call from Willie Brown indicating he had found her lost ear ring. She has been talking with an old Egyptian shaman who has poisons galore. Willie warned her not to go down that path. She is going to stay put…in the number 2 slot and be grateful to the bone…
Who will the democrats push out front if Biden falters and falls?
Yea, Big Bad Daddy..the one guy who could go toe to toe with Donald Trump and give him a real fight, a street fight, a bare knuckle black on white, no holds barred fight. Maybe his wife still has the power to stop him from accepting that slot, that job to lead the democrats in this election.
Calling Colin Powell…place your bets, it is a long shot for sure…but who or how could he get beaten?
He is the swamp creature even Barack looks up to. Tell me again why the military guys, the generals who are retired are making noises, at this time and for their reasons!
Maybe I am crazy, or maybe I have gamed this out and Powell is the only person I can think of to take ole Joe’s place who might have a snow ball in hell chance of beating President Trump.
Turns out Kamala’s Husband works for DLA Piper, a company who advises China. They have top-ranking Chinese on their payroll.
Note the photo of Kamala, husband and Biden are from 2017.
https://thenationalpulse.com/politics/harris-husband-ccp/
Conversly, if Karen Pence worked for Putin, Putin and Putin LLP, one thinks that would make a headline or two, no?
I disagree. Powell showed himself to be weak in the end. Extremely disappointing. He doesn’t have a chance in hell to go up against Trump.
…me too…
No way in H377 would the Bernie Sanders Communists support Colonic Powell as their candidate.
Nor would the “Squad” – Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota, Ayanna Pressley of Massachusetts, and Rashida Tlaib of Michigan – accept Colon Powell because he is not a sufficiently radical anti-capitalist and anti-American.
Powell is the old school Uniparty: pro-Globalist, pro-Military/Industrial Complex
IMHO, maybe it should read:
AOC representing the Communist Party USA;
Ilhan Omar representing Somalia and the Muslim Brotherhood;
Ayanna Pressley representing Planned Parenthood;
Rashida Tlaib representing Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood.
Whaddaya think? Close enough?
Thats fine. I was simply grouping them as The Squad, their “popular” media name…
Well, they got a ham sandwich named Hiden Biden in first place in all their polls right now.
They also had a corrupt-as-hell criminal named Hillary Clinton in first place in all their polls right on up to November 6, 2016.
Powell lied us into Iraq. Good luck with that.
The FISA court is an administrative court created by the Democrats under President Carter to control abuses displayed in the Nixon administration coup d’etat. The Fourth Amendment does not apply here; but the General Business Law does. Under the the law of abandoned property, any and all that is released to the vast horizons is open to retrieval by one and all. Most or all communications are transmitted through the airwaves and are subject to recovery by anyone. Pandora’s box has been truly opened.
Please explain how you come up with the Fourth Amendment not applying here.
Thanks in advance.
because it is suppose to surveill FOREIGN people NOT IN THIS COUNTRY.
instead it was loopholded to include 702 (the snooping on foreign people using telephone and internet cables within the US – US ISPs)
we could just say i suspect you of terrorism – leave this country now.
When you take out the trash, anyone can pick it up and use or reuse it. You don’t need to be an authorized sanitation person to do so. The same principle applies to signals sent through the air from microwave tower to microwave tower. The Fourth amendment does not apply to abandoned property. To dive into bureaucratic procedures concerning FISA is a distraction.
Sundance,
Thank you for this thread.
Unfortunately, I am a little confused. (Respectfully and humbly) To my understanding, the USA Patriot Act basically renders the Fourth Amendment moot under various circumstances that are “flexible” for our government.
If this statement is correct, then is a FISA 702 process just window dressing?
Certainly I am not asking for, or expecting a personal response, but I am hoping that the CTH community can help me understand the difference.
As always, thank you for everything that you do.
Sincerely,
Simple Citizen
Foreign persons in Foreign lands..
We should NEVER see the term US Person being referenced in any of these documents as SEARCH items.
the FBI was searching US Persons – illegal
IMHO, the BHO administration and the Clinton Machine targeted their political opposition. With DJT actually creating a second party to compete with the uniparty.
perfectly agree- and the RINOS are mildly cooperating because the CHAIRPERSON owns the database.
Even a US person being called a foreign agent.
The entire thing is unconstitutional, but the use of ‘Foreign Agent’ is particularly egregious.
Simple Citizen: You don’t seem confused to me. I think you understand it just fine.
Issy,
Many thanks. Sometimes my head spins with the process.
Please be well.
Simple Citizen
Just sent this to A.G. Barr:
“Dear Attorney General Barr,
I had great hopes when you became A.G., and great hopes that the corruption and criminal activity engaged in by the FBI, DOJ, CIA et al concerning the Trump campaign and Trump administration would be properly investigated and people brought to justice. This is necessary for the future of our country!
I have followed Sundance and the Conservative Treehouse for many years, have reviewed the evidence on his website and am shocked and appalled that those spearheading and even more involved than Clinesmith have NOT been brought to justice!
The American people need to know the truth and before the election. The fact that Peter Strozk can be out there continuing to spew lies and influence this election with his lies is – quite frankly – a great failure on your and Mr Durham’s part!!!
This country is lost because of the continued corruption in the FBI, Justice Department, CIA etc! You must take action now ! I cannot adequately express my great disappointment and despair! ”
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/us-politics/article-ex-fbi-agent-says-attacks-from-trump-outrageous-and-cruel/?utm_source=Shared+Article+Sent+to+User&utm_medium=E-mail:+Newsletters+/+E-Blasts+/+etc.&utm_campaign=Shared+Web+Article+Links
The mop and Pail is largely ignored by Canadians outside of Ontario. But the comments do indicate that most Canadians everywhere else know what a Criminal PS is!
In the 4th line of the red boxed section it states:
In close cases, the Court expects NSA to err on the side of providing information to the FBI, rather than withholding it, so that the FBI is better able to make informed and accurate decision under it targeting procedures.
This comment/suggestion coming from the FISC is extremely troubling to say the least… IF there are NO consequences for the DOJ, FBI and the National Counter-terrorism Center (NCTC) in their unreasonable exploitation of electronic metadata searches, then why the HELL do we think the intel agencies wont violate any and all guard rail restraints at will… Ala, Brennan, Clapper, Mule ears, Comey, Strozk, McCabe, et. al…
Very weak statement at best and out and out lie at worst… Beware the BS that is about to come out in the FISCs veiled attempts to distract us, while pretending to be correcting the shortcomings in the existing processes…
Regardless of what happens going forward, with Durham and Barr’s efforts, we absolutely must demand that the malign charlatans, in the DOJ, FBI and the National Counter-terrorism Center (NCTC) can never do this again to ANYONE…
Not just Federal Election Candidates/ Staff, as recently suggested, but more importantly, to each and every American Citizen…
It’s the real life version of the “Circumlocution Office” in Charles Dickens’ novel, Little Dorrit.
p. 44
That should be the predicate for a contempt show-cause order to the DOinJ Criminal General and FIB Destructor. Both should bring their toothbrushes. Could hardly be a more flagrant violation of the law and the Court’s direct orders.
Since the Court didn’t jail these scumbags for contempt, I suppose I just have to hold them all in the utmost contempt myownself!
2018 was the All OR Nothing Mueller operation.
I would like to know if thr 40 FBI agents query’d the database during the Mueller scam.
“In my opinion there is a way to stop the abuse through punishment for unlawful exploitation of the system by intelligence users; literally put legal consequences as the teeth within the compliance system and jail users who violate collection and minimization rules. However, congress and the intelligence community, writ large, have refused to put legal accountability into the process.”
Then any so called reforms, are without meaning. Because, another way of saying the same thing – is when I feel like ignoring the procedures, checks, etc. I will, without the expectation of punishment.
The IC has out grown it’s value to the public, they were created to protect.
A small town seeks the help of a group of mercenaries to protect them from outlaws, and for awhile this seems to work. Then the mercenaries started demanding more and more from the residents. It’s an old story repeated throughout the centuries and countries of the world. You, know how it ends.
In the REAL WORLD signing documents which you have not verified is a Criminal act if you are attesting to something under the penalty of PERJURY which you have not personally verified There are no such thing as TOO HARSH a consequence which cross my mind ~ these actions MUST RESULT IN HARSH CONSEQUENCES.
In LAW LAW land not so much, as they would all be in prison because they (LAWYERS) are paid to lie and they lie in court OFTEN, they get away with it as they are not under OATH!
I would be very interested to know in what circumstance has the use of the FISC and all it’s components actually ended up catching really bad people. Could the U.S. conduct its national security affairs without it.
Seems to me that we went off track after 9/11 and creation of the Dept. of Homeland Security and all its new and enhanced spying features.
logboom: You are correct, Bush and the Uniparty pushed through the Patriot Act after 9/11. In their fever to do something, they created the behemoth of Homeland Security and absorbed agencies that had functioned great independently. It turned the fbi into spy chasers and created wanna be James Bond types eg Strzok. FISA Warrants were issued like candy and contractors had access to raw NSA databases with unmasking a favorite pastime of those with a political agenda. Off track covers it pretty well.
Yes, we did go WAY off track after 9/11, DHS, TSA, Patriot Act, NDAA… might as well stop there, though one could go on.
All by design.
L.B. – you ask perhaps the best question asked in this whole mess.
The real questions is WHY won’t either party push for real consequences (prison) for abuse.
Anyone who reads here regularly should know the answer.
And for, those who don’t read here regularly, the answer is – members of both political parties profit immensely from the current status quo while retaining and increasing their grip on power.
Both parties get to illegally surveil potential challengers to the incumbents and also surveil the incumbents themselves, all with impunity since no legal consequences exist. They can target anyone for surveillance who is either internal and external to the government. Whoever threatens the Swamp’s preferred status quo is a target.
Any and all derogatory information collected via the illegal surveillance / resulting data collection is then used to blackmail any potential “do-gooders” from cleaning up the existing and highly corrupt order.
Well put and good, concise summary, GB.
I would add to flesh it out, you not only target the challenger, as you may not find leverage with him or his family.
So, target his campaign staff; campaign director, finance director, etc. Executives, no matter how good, are by nature staff dependant, as they can’t do everything themselves.
And a carrot and stick approach, expose blackmail if don’t cooperate, but financial incentive if ya do, probably works best.
For Uniparty, having Obummers IRS target the Tea Party, was just an interim step, access to nsa database, thru “FBI Contractors” gave them a more permanent insurance against being primaried.
via – abuse of the Insider Threat program.
Thanks, Dutch.
Yeah, they targeted the Tea Party and anyone who ever typed the words Tea Party anywhere, even on a Corona Typewriter.
Yes, but remember at the time, the Tea party created a shockwave, in D.C., when Eric Cantor was successfully primaried.
The idea of an “Untouchable” High ranking member of Congress, being bumped by a newcomer, glaring showed how VULNERABLE they are.
Understandable, actually because as they move up, they are focused on things way beyond and above their constituency.
So, a kind of panic and crisis mode occurred, and they developed a PLAN.
McCain carried the message to the Dems, to have Obama use the IRS to slow down tax exempt status applications, and TRY to get membership roles, while McConnell sent infiltrators in to disrupt.
This cooperation and the crisis that triggered it, also made them realise they needed a permanent defence against attacks on this vulnerability.
Hence, FBI contractor access to NSA database, the perfect tool to undermine any primary challengers, going forward.
I have a THEORY; if you look, there have been a # of succrssful primary challengers of (in some cases) long ‘serving’ members of BOTH faces of the Uniparty.
AOC obviously, and SHE has been sponsoring primary challengers.
And, a # of Repub primary challenges have been successful, as well.
I think its because Adm Rogers shut down access, leaving them vulnerable.
If we are stuck in past thinking, “Oh, you can’t primary McConnell or Graham, etc. cause look at Tea Party and Bannon effort” that old saw may no longer apply.
We need to exploit this vulnerability, to the max, just as AOC is doing on the Dem side.
HOW do you find a # of women who, at some time in the past, it can be verified spent SOME time with the candidate, and COULD have been alone with them, long enough for an “incident” of sexual harrassment to have occurred.
How do you then know if these women will be receptive to incentive ($) or pressure (blackmail) in order to get them to torpedo a campaign?
702 searches would be a gold mine.
Or, the Candidate, his family or his top staff, …it is the perfect armor for incumbents, to protect themselves against the only real threat they face, which is primary opponents.
You forgot miningfor insider information for Congress, and the deepstate, to profit in the stock markets.
Yeah, bulw. Hell, I’d just like to see all the various flavors of swamp rat in/around DC, including the nooze punks, go through the exact same three year plus anal exam that PDJT has had.
Not a man or woman would be left standing.
After that, maybe they could fumigate the place and start over.
Clearly, there is no way to stop the abuses of the fisa system without legal consequences. I don’t even think that would stop them all. Some would chance it because undoubtedly they have been getting away with it for a long time without getting caught.
Since the congress will not pass laws to punish the people who abuse it, they are either compromised or benefiting from the illegal abuses. It could be both, but it looks like the American people have been totally hoodwinked by the promises and assurances made to get the fisa passed. Then there was the Patriot Act which has turned the running of the government over to the intel agencies that have run amok over rights and freedoms.
Since Democrats think it is ok, Trump can totally use the IC to set Conservative rule forever, by executive order even. This is so cool. Even the IRS and supportive prosecutors around the country can help. Thanks Obama.
Now we just need to steal the 2020 election.
Sarcasm, but replace parties and they absolutely would do that. Vote them out!
Are we absolutely sure NSA Admiral Rogers is honest, and not someone getting ahead of the huge exploitation allowed on his watch at the NSA?
No, we are not.
If no, why did he stop all access by contractors when he found out about the abuse, and later personally inform PDT of the whole thing in December 2016?
That’s a good question…
The corruption has gone on for so long that most government employees see so few punished . It is like a small snowball rolling down a hill. At this moment in time you have so many in the Senate and House involved either in the takedown of President Trump, so much $ enrichment, it seems the only people found guilty of anything were only people involved with President Trump on baseless prosecutions. It’s a Bizzaro world where minority of innocent people get charged and the 100’s or 1000′ s who illegally prosper never get charged. Too big to be found guilty. And the longer this continues the worse it gets. All we can do is reelect President Trump and win maybe the house.
The corruption has grown so strong that now people die on a regular basis due to it.
Once again, an honor system for dishonest people.
DeWalt: Best Comment Winner
SD, thank you for keeping on top of this tangled mess of deceit and ‘splainin’ it to dumbkopfs like me. Without your great work I would not be aware.
As former FBI agent @petestrzok rolls out his book “Compromised” + takes ownership for steering FBI Russia probe, worth revisiting page iii IG Horowitz report. It found that it was his supervisor, Bill Priestap, NOT Strzok “who ultimately made the decision to open the investigation” July 31, 2016.
WHY IT MATTERS: FBI decision to open on a political campaign + who signed off became very important after controversial Strzok/Page texts surfaced
CONTEXT: Operatives who work this national security space tell me it’s “counterintelligence 101” to avoid professional + personal conduct/communications
that leave you open to be compromised + blackmail @CBSNews
They need to abolish the practice of collecting communications of US citizens. Do away with the NSA if necessary. Instead they need to make it absolutely clear that when any entity performs a terrorist act in the US it will result in the immediate death of all family members of the offender. That means in the case of State sponsored terrorism that Country will be destroyed by nuclear means if necessary. THIS IS HOW YOU IMPLEMENT THE FOURTH AMENDMENT!
When you say “they”, you mean the ones that rigged the system?
Yeah… no. “they” aren’t going to abolish anything they already use against us.
That’s literally our job, too.
I do believe this old horse is dead and should stop being flogged.
We the people will have to stop the insurrection. Probably against our own Military persons, sadly some will follow the orders to attack their fellow Americans and we will be left No Choice.
The United States Government has abandoned it’s populace and have hamstrung our POTUS, many many of our current military “leadership” are compromised Obama appointees aka Traitors and are ready to remove Trump at All Costs!!!
Buy Guns, Buy Ammo, target practice, set up area’s on your roof for “Sniping” and defending, build a Safe Room if you can in your home. Prepare folks, it is not gonna get better after Nov. 4th, it will get way worse unless Barr and Wray are fired now and replaced before Nov. 4th.
Just my opinion on it all, No more Spying on Americans NONE, spy on the foreigners and use them to spy on bad actors like we used to.
“Under these provisions…to implement these new information-sharing requirements…”
Wisky Tango Foxtrot!
This sounds like the footnote addressing the memorandum of understanding between ‘The Agencies’.
Yes it does.
Admiral Rogers audited FBI subcontractor 702 searches from November 2015 through his denial of their access in April 2016. Based on his audit, Judge Collyer held categorically that 85% of those searches were illegal. Since the electronic surveillance of foreign nationals is not illegal, that 85% represents illegal electronic surveillance of Americans in violation of the Fourth Amendment. Four years and two additional FISC opinions later, and we still do not know who the subcontractors were or the identity of the Americans illegally surveilled, including whether any illegal 702 searches targeted then candidate Trump, any members of his family or campaign, or any other Republican presidential candidate or campaign.
This is the cover up. The information is known or Judge Collyer would not have held the searches illegal. Still, crickets.
^up vote^ You put your finger right on it Mongomerepawn.
I hate to say this but I simply dont care anymore. I am convinced NOTHING is ever going to happen to Indict the ones who attempted a COUP on a LEGALLY ELECTED President.
For the Durham report to not be out yet is disgusting. I dont accept the Pandemic BS excuse. They should have been SO FAR down the road in their Investigating/GrandJury/Indictments that a pause would be a blip.
I would like to hear from Sundance after his efforts as to what he thinks–he named a person but so what? What happened to the Reporters he supposedly released to report? It’s been radio silence.
I’m disappointed but not surprised
One must honor and respect friends.
In this day that is less meaning ful.
What does that mean ?
Clarity sans riddles:
When you meet someone face to face, shake their hand, you are giving a piece of yourself in exchange for the Coincidence. The Knowing you are both alive, together, at the same time: Coincident.
This is a bond.
We have lost this together.
The internet only culture will not last.
Mark it.
Yep. SD went and kicked the hornets nest and threatened them.
Now he has Shut the F*ck up.
Not a single media outlet covered it, and he hasnt released his package or spoke directly about it since.
lbproud: I’ve been resigned to the fact for some time. We need to emulate President Trump, who relentlessly moves forward every day. There is too much at stake to waste energy thinking about the scum.
After the election Trump needs to go full Executive and fire the first 3layers of management in both DOJ FBI then fire on action for the next years anyone who doesnt get the sea change.
pink slips need to rain in the fed gov. We have a executive I would like to see him do what executives of large ole companies do bring in the hatchet men with the auditors and just go across the whole system. The money saved and the deep state funding killed would be beautiful.
C-Low: He can’t, Civil Service Rules. The only people Trump can fire are the ones who hold appointed positions. That would be the head person. This is why very little gets done on government.
The Court expects the NSA to err on the side of providing information to the FBI than withholding it.
Read that as……
The Court expects the NSA to ignore the Constitutional Protections of American rather than withhold information from the The State.
The timing is to do with the court ruling warrentless searches unconstitutional.
https://nexttobagend.blogspot.com/2020/09/more-to-follow.html
The big pipe needs be cut. Deep State is a greater threat to us than any external foe whose activities are countered by limitless DOMESTIC collections.
If no process put in place so far has been effective at stopping the abuse it is because they do not want to stop the abuse. They are only engaging in theater.
There should be a million people in D.C. throwing people out of windows and hanging them from lamp posts. But there’s not. So, kiss your chains, ammo up and hope XFL football won’t get woke!
I like how you think… there should be!