All things considered, this is a positive first step and the first significant indication that Western propaganda around World War Reddit is failing.
According to sources who are speaking to NBC News, U.S. and EU officials are gently beginning to talk to Ukraine government officials about what steps might need to be taken to bring an end to the Ukraine-Russia war. Obviously, for those who do not pretend, we all know the decision to end this conflict comes down to the USA telling Ukraine President Zelenskyy to open peace talks with Russia.
The EU NATO alliance has recently started to show less interest in the maintenance of a U.S. proxy war against Russia, and more open public statements that the current status of a stalemate is unsustainable given the amount of money, hardware and political energy required to maintain it.
Additionally, Zelenskyy is running out of men to throw into the meat grinder; the troops and military leaders are actually defying his orders now.
Therefore, if the Biden administration (State Dept and CIA) concede to the reality, Zelenskyy will have no alternative except to talk to Russia about ending the conflict.
This is the baseline of non-pretending honesty that President Trump has been saying in his remarks about his ability to end the “killing and death” within 24 hours. The reality of the situation is not complex.
Ukraine pledges not to join NATO, the USA pledges not to use Ukraine as a proxy nation to conflict with Russia, the untrusting Russian government keeps part of Eastern Ukraine as a safety mechanism, and the war/bloodshed ends.
However, given the use of Ukraine as a financial mechanism for U.S. politicians to get rich, and given the financial stakes for multinationals like Blackrock, there are other financial considerations which will play out in the background of any potential peace talks. In the end, just like in the beginning, it’s all going to come down to money.
(Via NBC) – WASHINGTON — U.S. and European officials have begun quietly talking to the Ukrainian government about what possible peace negotiations with Russia might entail to end the war, according to one current senior U.S. official and one former senior U.S. official familiar with the discussions.
The conversations have included very broad outlines of what Ukraine might need to give up to reach a deal, the officials said. Some of the talks, which officials described as delicate, took place last month during a meeting of representatives from more than 50 nations supporting Ukraine, including NATO members, known as the Ukraine Defense Contact Group, the officials said.
The discussions are an acknowledgment of the dynamics militarily on the ground in Ukraine and politically in the U.S. and Europe, officials said.
They began amid concerns among U.S. and European officials that the war has reached a stalemate and about the ability to continue providing aid to Ukraine, officials said. Biden administration officials also are worried that Ukraine is running out of forces, while Russia has a seemingly endless supply, officials said. Ukraine is also struggling with recruiting and has recently seen public protests about some of President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s open-ended conscription requirements.
And there is unease in the U.S. government with how much less public attention the war in Ukraine has garnered since the Israel-Hamas war began nearly a month ago, the officials said. Officials fear that shift could make securing additional aid for Kyiv more difficult.
Some U.S. military officials have privately begun using the term “stalemate” to describe the current battle in Ukraine, with some saying it may come down to which side can maintain a military force the longest. Neither side is making large strides on the battlefield, which some U.S. officials now describe as a war of inches. Officials also have privately said Ukraine likely only has until the end of the year or shortly thereafter before more urgent discussions about peace negotiations should begin. U.S. officials have shared their views on such a timeline with European allies, officials said.
“Any decisions about negotiations are up to Ukraine,” Adrienne Watson, spokesperson for the National Security Council, said in a statement. “We are focused on continuing to stand strongly in support of Ukraine as they defend their freedom and independence against Russian aggression.”
An administration official also noted that the U.S. has participated with Ukraine in discussions of its peace summit framework but said the White House “is not aware of any other conversations with Ukraine about negotiations at the moment.” (read more)
Ultimately the decision to end the Ukraine-Russia war is not up to Joe Biden. At a certain point the CIA and State Dept will tell him the cost -v- benefit analysis is no longer worth it, politicians are getting too many angry calls from Americans, and it’s time to end the conflict.
Biden will do what he’s told and read what is prepared for him, while the people around him try to position the end of the Ukraine conflict to gain Joe Biden the Nobel Prize for peace.
The political propaganda at the conclusion of a proxy war that NATO and Biden started is very clear to see.
Very nice the discussions are “gentle”. Wouldn’t want discussions getting too rough…. /sarc
But with whom can Putin negotiate peace with?
The west is agreement incapable.
The west breaks every agreement it makes!
Catch 22!
The Rothschild agent from the British Pilgrims Society will be the person with whom Putin “negotiates”.
It seems Putin has already achieved victory. He can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants
I imagine he will broker this to make Biden feel comfortable claiming some kind of “victory”(a small insignificant piece of land?) Certainly Vlad(and BRICS) would prefer dealing with Biden’s puppet masters than with President Trump.
This will be seen as nothing but ANOTHER BIDEN DEFEAT!!!😝
And spun as a victory over mean Vlad in the mockingbird media, lol.
IMO a factor in Putin’s decision is who he wants to see in the White House in Jan 2024.
The world was in a better place with Trump as the leader of the free world.
Chaos, violence and unrest have been allowed to foment since the ‘election’ of Joe Biden and his gang of thugs.
The warmongering creeps in Mordor-On-The-Potomac will act like they had nothing to do with starting the Ukraine War and only wanted peace and freedom all along. They will also probably do victory laps and pat themselves on the back. Millions of dopey Americans will believe them. Biden probably will get a Nobel Peace prize as a participation trophy for being a good globalist stooge.
Sometimes it’s very hard to love your country.
You can love your country and HATE your government….. that I know.
“The American Revolution was not a common event. Its effects and consequences have already been awful over a great part of the globe. And when and where are they to cease? But what do we mean by the American Revolution? Do we mean the American war? The Revolution was effected before the war commenced. The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments of their duties and obligations. While the king, and all in authority under him, were believed to govern in justice and mercy, according to the laws and constitution derived to them from the God of nature and transmitted to them by their ancestors, they thought themselves bound to pray for the king and queen and all the royal family, and all in authority under them, as ministers ordained of God for their good; but when they saw those powers renouncing all the principles of authority, and bent upon the destruction of all the securities of their lives, liberties, and properties, they thought it their duty to pray for the continental congress and all the thirteen State congresses.
There might be, and there were others who thought less about religion and conscience, but had certain habitual sentiments of allegiance and loyalty derived from their education; but believing allegiance and protection to be reciprocal, when protection was withdrawn, they thought allegiance was dissolved. Another alteration was common to all. The people of America had been educated in an habitual affection for England, as their mother country; and while they thought her a kind and tender parent, (erroneously enough, however, for she never was such a mother,) no affection could be more sincere. But when they found her a cruel beldam, willing like Lady Macbeth, to “dash their brains out,” it is no wonder if their filial affections ceased, and were changed into indignation and horror.
This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people, was the real American Revolution.”—Actual President John Adams, letter to H. Niles, 1818
You must hate the Occupation Government to love your country.
Psalm 97:10
Let those who love the Lord hate evil,
for he guards the lives of his faithful ones
and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
Yes, Lord Jesus!
Looks like our forefathers got tangled up in Romans 13, believing every shade of contrived government must be an ordained expression of God and should be obeyed and continually fed our revenue.
We know that evil seeks out those positions and once ensconced, begins oppressive and regressive means to restrict and invalidate the very scripture used to give the oppressors their ill-gotten authority.
It is our belief that we ought to obey God rather than man. When they conflict, screw the man made law.
Define “country.”
Ukraine is a post-Soviet mistake.
]
Three disparate territories cobbled together that does not work. Just like Yugoslavia had to be broken up. Czechoslovakia had to be broken up. Draw lines in haste; repent at leisure. Game’s over for “Ukraine”.
Yes, yes it is.
Any honest student of this history knows that the US is at the bottom of the Ukraine war. This war should have been and easily could have been avoided. NATO is a political and military facade without the US. It does exactly what the US tells it to do. Russia wants Ukraine neutrality. That means NO missiles on their border. That means a completely neutral Ukraine. It’s kinda like us not wanting Russian missiles on the Mexican border. Many Americans don’t get it.
If the US enters into talks with Russia you can bet Putin will be dictating terms. The Russians know, from hard experience, that the US will not keep its word. The Russians have won this war both militarily and politically. All the bullshit propaganda in the United States media isn’t going to change that. Putin will be negotiating from a position of strength.
Then there’s Blinken, Sullivan, and Nuland running the show and in complete control. All Zionists and all war mongers. This time their deception and conniving has back fired big time. Dementia Joe is clueless and a non entity in all this.
Sadly Ukraine has been destroyed. There are now at least 500,000 dead young Ukrainian men. There are freshly dug graves as far as the eye can see. And for what? All paid for the the American tax payer. Meanwhile, Mrs. Zelensky visits New York City and buys one piece of diamond jewelry for 1.25 million dollars!! On the US dime. Is it any wonder that most of the world is pissed off at the US?
Well, get set to watch the US leave Ukraine like every other place where we have had wars. Pack up and leave with our tail between our legs in the middle of the night. It brings to mind a quote attributed to Kissinger, “It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal.” And here we go again!
Sadly most of the Damage to U.S. foreign policy is a direct result of Henry Kissinger’s actions over the decades. Blinken, Sullivan, and Nuland; Obamunist all, have been a disaster for America and they are always on the wrong side of history and Foreign Policy.
Ukrainian heritage ethnics in Dept of State, still acting out what Stalin did to their country under communism.
He has had plenty of help.
I guess Nuland’s and her husband Kagan’s plan to create a “New Israel” in the “Pale of Settlement” aka Ukraine failed. Just check the heritage of all those who support this abomination.
Any honest student of this history knows that a small group of government employees operating out of Washington DC
the USis at the bottom of the Ukraine war.Edited for additional accuracy.
Well, all I can say it that the US (aka NATO) have been training the Ukraine army for this war since 2014. It’s no coincidence that the most corrupt country in Europe HAD one of the most powerful militaries in Europe. This was done expressly to go to war with Russia. No, it’s not just a few. Russia and its vast resources looked like a plum to the bastards in corporate American and their political shills. Well, they got a wakeup call. Unfortunately, one of the consequences was a vastly stronger and more capable Russia with world opinion on their side.
Russophobia is a national illness in this country. Russia is predominately an Orthodox Christian nation. I do not see the evil Americans perceive. We need to get out of the Cold War mentality and stop the aggression….. everywhere!
Putin should be dictating the terms. Ukraine violated the Minsk Accords willfully.
Russia is tried of bargaining with bad faith actors. Just the Russian heritage part of this dysfunctional thing called ‘Ukraine” live in peace and autonomy; as originally guaranteed. Until Biden wanted to play “wartime President”, to boost his sagging poll numbers. Trace the Ukraine mess back to Obama and Hilary Clinton, who needed Russia-Russia-Russia to cover Obama spying on Trump -2026.
And who really knows how many billions of “infrastructure” money was wasted in that stupidity. And now we have another war to distract the dumb-down American bread and circus sheeple. Imagine that…
The Void will be filled by multinational corporations looking to cash in on the money Briben will be forced to shell out so 10%Sky can continue the grift and keep a lid on the blackmail he holds over Briben and all the other US scum sucking pigs that have been feeding at the trough
President Putin already negotiated. We promised we would not expand NATO. That was 14 countries ago.
Then we signed the Minsk Agreements protecting Russians in Donbas. Tore that up, too.
I think he’s done “negotiating”.
For a century, our goal was to keep Russia and China from aligning. Good job, Brownie. Given the rise of BRICs and the fall of the dollar, you have to say this Proxy War on Russia sure does act like a Proxy War on America.
But who hates America enough to do that?
“It’s a Real Mystery(tm).”
Yes, the True enemy of America, Freedom, Justice and Righteousness. A pure Anti-American, Hate filled, evil, vile and Communist S.O.B.. The Dumbo eared scumbag.
Melanin the Metaphor is a powerful entity. At what point is true color blindness an operational quality?
I like sundance’s moniker for the Obammunist:
The Perfumed Prince.
It is all about money and energy. Any peace discussions will hinge on who gets to sell energy to Europe. I doubt the US wants to give up selling liquid natural gas to Europe. Any peace means that US LNG market and profits are gone. US can’t compete with cheap Russian energy.
Also will depend on using/not using the dollar as the reserve currency for energy transactions.
And then it comes down to territory. Do you think for one second Russia will trust anything Europe/US will sign in a treaty after Maidan? Merkel admitted the last agreement was a lie and she was just buying time.
Russia will want the end of NATO. The powers that be will not give up NATO, which exists to economically keep the US in Europe, Russia out, and Germany down.
And then who is going to get stuck with the $10 trillion bill to rebuild Ukraine? I highly doubt it will be Russia.
I don’t see how they all come to an agreement. The powers that be in Europe and the US are in a bad position at coming to an agreement. Making it worse is that time is on Russia’s side since the US and Europe are bleeding cash and increasing deficits.
Europe has no military which makes it very weak as a negotiator.
If the Russian’s had any common sense of their role in the world (and I think they do) they will in current times NEVER agree to a ceasefire in the proxy war with the West.
As soon as the Ukraine army breaks it would be a march all the way to Kiev for Russia to ensure Ukraine (and what remains of it) will never join NATO,
Also as stated by Russia they will not stop until all the objectives of the Special Military Operation have been met (which includes de-militarization of Ukraine if I am not mistaken)
The alternative is that people would think Russia is going to enter into Minsk 2 accord again and give Ukraine and the West time to re-arm itself and then in a few years its the same quagmire. I simply think this is off the table and the West is being delusional. In the first quarter of 2022 Boris Johnson flew to Kiev to tell the Ukrainians to tear up Minsk 2 after the Russian withdrawal and that they were going to supply money+weapons+pension payments to shoot up the Russians and defeat them.
The thought that the West can fool Russia in the same way twice.. they would have to be as stupid as the Western tabloid propaganda (New York Times etc.) they are spreading about Russia (like they are using microchips from washing machines now to power their military? LOL) Then again the current leadership of the West has proven to be a collective of fools and limp tools on multiple world occasions.
Apparently money is not able to buy guaranteed best interest decisions yet.
SMH it will be interesting for sure, but a ceasefire I do not think we are going to see soon.
Money has not bought western leaders a triple digit IQ either, lol.
Here is a suggestion.
Situation.
Solution:
PS. While the US doesn’t have housing for illrgal aliens, Ukraine must have houding for the multimillions who have left, or died. We could also send the illegal aliens here in the US to Ukraine. New York is now even offering a free airline ticket to anywhere else.
No. Let’s end the concept of migration once and for all
The negotiations, if they even happen. Will be very simple
Russia will show up at the table. Put down a list of demands. Which may include Unconditional Surrender of Ukraine
If Russia’s demands are not met The “Stalemate ” will continue to the last Ukrainian.
The US/NATO is in no place to bargain.
I see no reason Putin should easily settle.
Next comes the “Marshall Plan” to rebuild Ukraine. This may have been the underlying motive for the war.
Wherein a significant percent of all the rebuild money goes back to Demonrats and the worst of the Uniparty Republicans.
Ask BlackRock.
“BlackRock and JPMorgan will help Ukraine launch a recovery bank to raise hundreds of billions of reconstruction money”
https://www.intellinews.com/blackrock-and-jpmorgan-will-help-ukraine-launch-a-recovery-bank-to-raise-hundreds-of-billions-of-reconstruction-money-282229/
10% more for the hated Big Guy.
Nuland and company should be afraid to be seen on the street, when this farce of a war is all over.
How do dirtbags like her get created?
How many innocent, young lives has she destroyed – and for what?
Unconditional Surrender. Putin will landlock ukraine keep the regions that make money and leave the rest of Ukraine as a welfare state for the west to care for.
Ukraine is done. Biden is a moron and Zelenskyy is no Winston Churchill.
They grow bolder with each crime.
Perhaps we can offer to surrender the entire Biden administration to Russia to be tried for war crimes.
Now, there’s an idea.
Twitter Platform: Sprinter X Aggregator
Zelensky refutes media reports that his Western partners are urging him to negotiate with Russia.
“ Nobody is pressuring me today. All this happened at the beginning of the war and before the war. Today, none of the leaders of the EU or the United States is putting pressure on us… For us to sit down with Russia now, talk and give it something – this will not happen,” Zelensky said.
Little Napoleon speaks. He doesn’t have enough mansions yet.
Clue ya: “Russia is not going to make the Minsk mistakes again.” They’re not going to abandon what they have won on the battlefield so that – predictably – USA/EU/NATO gets “breathing room” to prepare to go after them yet again.
(Which, as everybody damned well knows, IS what would happen.)
Russia doesn’t have to stop pressing its clear advantage until it has decisively achieved all of the goals that it originally set. It sees the situation quite clearly, including the corruption and duplicity of its opponents. It will now finish the job on its own terms, and the opposition will accept it: “surrender.”
I told you it’s a fake war.
after a 1/4 Trillion dumped in the s hit hole money laundering scheme … pert near all democrats and rino’s need to lined up against a wall…
They ran out of men to fight, even those conscripted off the street.
And now they want to send our men and women to fight in the Middle East.
If there’s peace it won’t last long. Russia is learning that it can gain territory by invading it. And we are unable to push them out of what they take.
Actually, the animosity between what is now “East” and “West” in what we now call Ukraine dates back thousands(!) of years. (No joke.) The present boundaries were set in USSR planning meetings and do not reflect history nor culture. It is far more complex and blood-soaked than it first appears.
“Western sensibilities” will find the history VERY hard to believe. “Could actual humans behave that way?” And for what seems [to us] to be so little point? The brutal answer is, “yes.”
In this case, the USA didn’t start it. They just tried to exploit it. The Russians have enormous experience with this and what they are saying is true.
You can do a search on the scholarly website “thepostil dot com” to find authoritative articles which paint the whole bloody picture. (It is not primarily a political site.)
Consider this: “Why are the western Ukrainians lobbing artillery shells at civilians in the east EVERY DAY, when “common sense” says they should be shooting at the Russian Army? This is a hint at the thousand-year old underlying historical truth. Which will make utterly no sense to “the Western mind” at all. “Why do you care whether they want to speak Russian or Ukrainian?” They do. They will kill each other over … that. They will invite and support “real Nazis” over … that.
Spot on.
They hate the Orthodox Christian Kievan Rus, descended from Scandinavia, like no other for driving them out and down.
And they hate Christians everywhere,
I will add the link to MOA I referenced in my comment above. They too noticed the NBC article and are debating it at the moment. Not saying the commentary there is any more insightful. But they do obsess about Ukraine pretty much every day. With a lead article or open topic on Ukraine. There is a lot of commentary. I think in sum they have a much more broad and global belief of what peace in Ukraine will require. It ain’t pretty.
FWIW: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/11/the-ukraine-peace-talk-trial-balloon.html#more
OGDuck
“I dont need you to get me elected”
–Chris Christie
“We will install whoever we want and you will like it”
–UniParty
Yeah, we don’t want to hear another Cheney/Kinzinger RINO traitor working for the UniParty drone on with endless lies. Go figure.
“Officials also have privately said Ukraine likely only has until the end of the year or shortly thereafter before more urgent discussions about peace negotiations should begin. “
Does that sound like a ‘stalemate’ to anyone ?
Sure doesn’t sound very stalemate-ish to me……………
I think Biden will try to take Putin “behind the gym” first before any peace talks. After all one does not F with a Biden except if you’re a crack ho.
Julian Assange – The US Has Interfered with 81 Elections Since 1950
“The United States government, since 1950, has intervened in 81 elections, interfered, to use Schiff’s language,
in 81 elections.
That is not including coups, which have overthrown the government.
So there’s a long history of the United States doing this to places around the world in infamous ways and most recently, alleged interference in the election of Israel.
So I think we should understand that the United States is in a glass house when it comes to allegations of attempting to interfere with or influence election results.”
✅
I think this war and its related events becomes easier to understand if one accepts that everyone in the Washington class earnestly thinks that the world will be a better place if the United States is no longer a great power — preferably by 2030.
Isn’t that the CPP’s planned date to take over the world?
At this point maybe they figure all the rest of us would be gone by then…
Beware of Fake Wars
Software giant Adobe has been caught selling AI-generated images of the Israel-Hamas war.
It is a damn stalemate on the battlefield and the grifting that is occurring needs to be CEASED IMMEDIATELY!!!
Victoria Nuland and Jake Sullivan should be forced to move their families to the front line of the Ukrainian conflict.
Don’t forget Blinken who likes to dress his children in Ukrainian colors. His children aren’t responsible but he is so send him too.
Soooo sad …. after 500,000 + Ukr. soldiers deaths at least 50,000+ with no leg or arm they want negotiate — maybe in 2024/2025 and IT WILL BE ON RUSSIA TERMS !!! not on the warmongers in the DC or Brussell….after they liberate ODESSA…
It is horrible. And don’t forget about the civilian and Russian deaths and injuries. Both Ukrainians and Russians are victims of these war crimes. This war was 100% preventable and unnecessary.
It sickens me to see that it took this long for anything like this to even be discussed. It is a testament to the grotesque arrogance and selfishness of those that possess power and wealth. It is a never ending episode of “As the World Burns”. The utter disregard for human life that these “people” exhibit in their never ending quest for more money and power makes me want to vomit. Humanity as a whole is currently controlled by the most inhumane creatures ever to walk the earth.
The three stooges (Nuland, Blinken and Sullivan) and the (fake) King (Biden) and Queen (Zelensky) were going to bring Russia to its knees in a matter of months according to their grand plan. Damn glad they weren’t involved in competitive business decisions in my company. The first order of business is throughly understanding your competitors strengths and weaknesses.
Gently discussing?
Burn the checkbook in front of Zelenskyy’s smirking face. Game’s over.
A turning point for Ukraine came when they proscribed the Orthodox Church and created a fake Orthodox Ukrainian Government sect. Christians have a long memory, and it will cost Zelenskyy and Biden the war.
This is a positive step you say? This narrative has nothing to do with peace negotiations and everything to do with the fact that their profits have been maxed out in the corrupt bioweapons mecca called ukraine . Bobblehead has gifted the upper echelons of the Ukraine military with pensions now at 100%, lavish cars & homes, exotic trips and banc accts that made them millionaires. Nothing more is needed after sending >120 billion, all without Congressional approval. It’s time for new wars to generate new massive defense profits… this has been the game of these Godless, moral degenerates for decades. You talk abt the great pretenders…
The real sticky wicket will be how does Briben get the Comic to admit defeat while the Comic holds all the blackmail cards…
Hmmmm..???
Did you mention the part about the US no longer funding the war without an audit? The stealing of taxpayer dollars must stop.
Putin (or Putin’s double) will drive a hard bargain over our idiot State Department.
Ukraine is clearly losing, but claims from Douglas MacGregor, that the Ukraine army has had 400,000 KIA (adjusted for population that would be like America losing 4,000,000 KIA) are in Baghdad Bob territory.
Thank you Sundance for letting the light come through.
None of these people should be anywhere near foreign policy. Like most liberals they think wishing = getting.
Russia will tell these axholes exactly how it’s going to end on their terms in a way the DC rats can save face from their arrogance and incompetence. Gaza is a nice diversion and another money laundry being set up. These people really are sick.
The Daily Mail told me that Putin was dying of cancer two years ago … and that he only had weeks to live. That wasn’t just Biden propaganda was it? The LGBTQqeio&u weren’t just hoping that “homophobe” Putin was dying … but he’s actually dead now? So now we can have worldwide gayness?
I wonder if any attempt will be made to help Zelinsky save face, or if he’s going to be unceremoniously tossed under the bus?
zelensky needs to surrender himself, and his army, unconditionally to russian authorities, simple as that. Then we talk US taxpayer accountability for all revenues and materiel provided and fraud graft embezzlement and prosecutions etc. big criminal stuff gone down…