West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin was on every Sunday talk show today (CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS and Fox) responding to his reversal of position on the Build Back Better legislative package (Green New Deal spending) that is part of the senate budget reconciliation bill. There is something very interesting in his justification. [Do not skim read this, all citations included]
Fox News Brett Bair does the best job challenging Manchin on his prior statements saying there would be no spending deal without first seeing the August inflation data. [LINK]. Manchin never answered that hypocrisy directly but says there are two components of the deal, two parts of a new future legislative bill, that brought him to the agreement on the $370 billion current spend.
The current Senate bill is a reconciliation bill, meaning it involves taxes and spending – AND ONLY taxes and spending, because the bill originated in the House.
The constitutional framework for taxes & spending requires the House to originate all spending bills. If a desired additional measure does not involve taxes and spending (a budgetary impact) it cannot be added to a reconciliation bill. The senate must originate a new bill and then send it to the House.
According to Manchin the deal between himself, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden includes his support for the current green energy spending, in exchange for two new items in future legislation: 1) Streamlined energy permitting/regulation; and 2) Increased development of Oil, Coal, Gas. Both of these pieces of legislation have to be handled in a separate Senate bill.
According to Manchin, his agreement to the current spending bill was contingent upon a promise that: (A) Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer will generate a new bill for streamlined energy permitting and increased oil, gas and coal development; (B) House Speaker Nancy Pelosi will take up the Senate bill and whip enough of her House Democrat membership to join with Republicans in support of that Senate bill; and (C) Joe Biden will sign that increased energy production bill.
Here’s the important part. Senator Manchin claims he has leverage over Biden, Pelosi and Schumer to ensure a new bill with those priorities is created and advanced. Manchin further claims there are “consequences” for Biden, Pelosi and Schumer if they were to renege on the deal. He is quite emphatic about that point if you listen to the NBC interview.
Now ask yourself…. What leverage would Senator Manchin have over Biden, Schumer and Pelosi that would ensure they would not double-cross him?
There is only one Occam’s razor answer:
Joe Manchin threatened to switch political parties if any of them reneged on the deal.
The NBC interview with Chuck Todd questioning Joe Manchin is very interesting. It is actually the best interview of all five conducted, in part because it seems like Chuck Todd has full knowledge of the Manchin threat component.
Manchin was challenged in three of the five interviews about this promised future legislative component. In each of the interviews Manchin affirms and reaffirms there would be consequences if Schumer, Pelosi and Biden try to renege on the deal. However, it is the Meet the Press Chuck Todd interview that really gets in deeper and overlays some sunlight on this issue.
WATCH at 04:03 of the video below, Chuck Todd has knowledge of the “deal” in detail and pushes Manchin on his “consequences” statement. Then watch the very end of this interview (09:05) when Chuck Todd tries to pin Manchin down on the importance of Democrats holding the Senate. Chuck Todd knows the unspoken threat that Manchin outlines as consequences.
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Chuck Todd knows the “consequences”. He tried to pin Manchin down. Manchin obfuscated.
You put it all together and it starts making sense.
Senator Joe Manchin cut a deal for removal of regulatory roadblocks to current energy programs and expanded energy development. Schumer has to generate the legislation permitting faster investment in current oil, gas, coal. Nancy Pelosi has to pass it in the House. Joe Biden has to sign it and change EPA/Interior Dept policy. In exchange for that, Joe Manchin has agreed to the $370 billion green new deal energy spending programs.
If Schumer, Pelosi or Biden renege, then Manchin switches parties and the Senate flips into Republican control immediately. That’s his leverage.
Someone needs to ask Manchin: (A) what is the timeframe for the new legislative package; and (B) is this an accurate assessment of the “consequences” he outlined.
Here’s the other interviews:
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https://youtu.be/EL7SsWH3HgE
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So.. let me get this straight. We need to produce oil and gas to get out of the inflation… the Dems forced on us… by stopping energy independence from our… production of oil and gas? What kind of FFS circular reference is this BS??? What else is in this bill that these heathens are profiting from that enticed them to crash our economy on purpose???
I don’t give a sh1t which party Munchausens-By-Proxy is on… the QUICK FIX to our economy is to throw out the FRAUD of a resident president and his organized crime cronies and put Trump back rightfully in the White House…. then persecute the sh1t out of them for TREASON… make it so blatant and outrageous a punishment that no one.. and I mean NO ONE ever pulls this sh1t again.
A worthy read about turning oil drilling on and off like a faucet… further proof the fraud in chief hasn’t got a clue past Hunters crack pipe.
https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-05-28/shutting-down-oil-wells-a-risky-and-expensive-option/
Costly with no guarantee of of a full or even partial restoration.
The point is that it not easily reversed. Only way is “forward” preferentially in the direction they are laying the path for.
Effectively burning the boats after crossing the ocean so there’s no going back.
Interesting article. It’s noteworthy that “Some Russian engineers are even considering burning excess oil, rather than downsizing production;” as, the reason they’re willing to burn excess oil is because Russia discovered decades ago that oil is the only truly reliably replenishable energy source since the earth is constantly automatically generating it.
That is my understanding also, from what I have read about the “abiotic”, continuing, production of oil. WHY is this, if factual, not replacing the continued reference/naming, to “fossil fuels”?
That’s the part I don’t get…we are going to produce more energy from oil and gas by not supporting oil and gas…he is insane or thinks we are…
Nancy has been caught insider trading, it was obvious when her husband sold Nvidia before the final signing of the chips bill. Her billionaire donors are still wheeling and dealing in the background though.
ding ding ding! winner winner chicken dinner!
Promises promises promises? Maybe he will find out how the American people feel about Politicians and promises
I see the House and Senate flipping to Republicans this mid-term, by how much depends on the cheating corruption, they can get away with. Big numbers not much cheating little numbers big cheating. Manchin threatening going Republican may not be much of a threat, since in 4 months the congress flips to Republicans, so what is one more being Republican.
We all know the UNIPARTY rules the day!
But the RepubliCONS will only “correct it” by a small percentage to make it”appear” they’re heroes. Fact is… they’re all the same animal and they’re rabid and need to be put down if they can’t be reigned in. DemonRats and RepubliCons are all made of the same inbred DNA.
“they’re all the same animal “
NO…
The Dems and media have always accused the GOP of promoting oil production.
When the GOP declared Al Gore to be a lier, Gore accused them of being in the pocket of big oil.
The press did not push back.
Two years ago we were energy independent!!!
TWO years ago the GOP was in the white house.
The question is whether Manchin will sell his vote before his items are passed in separate legislation. After all, his threat becomes meaningless in 5 months if the Senate is no longer 50-50. Odds are he does sell out before his desired legislation is passed, does a symbolic party switch when Schumer inevitably reneges, and then he gets to join what he expects will be a Republican majority in 2023. If he is planning to run for President, doing so from the Republican side probably makes more sense and this is a nice stunt to build credibility on that side of the fence.
Can’t polish a turd, though, which is precisely what Manchin is.
And it sure helps him win the prize he really covets, which is the governorship in WV.
He already was governor, he ran for Senate while the sitting governor.
Take it from a West Virginia citizen……..NOPE.
What is this man talking about? According to him we will be producing more fossil fuel and be the new green deal and and and…what a fraud.
Pay attention to this price tag to fool around with our oil and gas production.
https://www.resilience.org/stories/2020-05-28/shutting-down-oil-wells-a-risky-and-expensive-option/
He’s a fraud. Period.
“What difference, at this point, does it make?” (HRC)
I don’t believe one word from Manchin, Chuck Todd, Bret Baier or any of the alphabet news readers agencies.
I never believe Schumer, Pelosi or McConnell for that matter. Many times they lie when the truth would serve their deviousness better. But what do I know?
From my branch, stolen elections have catastrophic consequences and we are living through the Hell these frauds created.
Flying by the seat of their britches, they come up with these great deals and at least one of them, always has the leverage….blah, blah, blah, with only 1 or 2 unanswered questions concerning the potential for “things” to go awry; and normally “things” go awry and we are then doubly-screwed.
I think you are thinking smart and can read the seams on a baseball thrown by Whitey Ford. Well done senor!
Weak, comes off as not so intelligent and for sale.
Nothing prevents him from forthrightly defending the interests of the good people of West Virginia(or Ohio, Kentucky, Pennsylvania and Tennessee)who are truly the salt of the earth.
Chuck Yeager need not worry that this charlatan will displace him in the hearts of authentic Mountaineers.
what is the timeframe for the new legislative package
Especially since they are about to go on August recess.
Gee, pass legislation now for promises later. Reagan proved this as fallacy. He knows they are liars. You cannot negotiate with liars, especially evil liars. Manchin may flip, but I reckon a RINO will flip the other way. I can think if 5 that would do it.
RINOS are RINOs because they can’t get elected as democrats with the politics in their states. That and the fact that they’re scum. If a RINO senator were to flip it seems to me it would have to be someone with nothing to lose, that is, someone who isn’t running again or someone who thinks their state is turning blue and that would be very unlikely as the trend is in the other direction.
A smart man would have gotten what he wanted up front and only then signed off on their bill given the character flaws of the people he is working with.
$270 billion to buy windmills etc., is insanity and the Dems will lose further public support. You can’t eat windmills.
As for the $80 billion in this bill to expand the IRS, I see this hiring as a Dem planned attack on conservatives and a nationwide shakedown of small business owners.
Will this pass the Senate? Am I a fool to hope it fails?
Or, he’s got something a whole lot stronger than the threat of switching parties.
One of the reasons that Build Back Better was such a fiasco was that the Democratic leadership made the exact same sort of promises to house democrats on the infrastructure bill. They (communists in the House) went along with it, then got screwed on Build Back Better early on.
Manchin should know this. He led the screwing of the Communists. They would do it to him, with sadistic pleasure, if they could.
He better have something pretty strong, or he is quite a fool.
“As for the $80 billion in this bill to expand the IRS, I see this hiring as a Dem planned attack on conservatives and a nationwide shakedown of small business owners.”
As if they haven’t been holding enough ‘threats’ over the heads of Patriots. This is just one more that adds to the hordes that obama hired.
The only thing switching parties would do at this point is to allow McConnell to simply stop bringing certain bills to the floor.
Perhaps a promise appointment of Vice President rather than switching to the same Uniparty?
Wait a kinute…Lawmakers are only supposed to use “reconciliation” ONCE PER YEAR, in the annual markup of the annual budget.
Didn’t they already use that once this year already?
They don’t pass actual budgets either for over a decade and that has not stopped them yet.
Infuriating.
That was last fiscal year. Their attempt in December (this fiscal year) failed
Thank you. I have trouble keeping up with it. The new budget is due to be appropriated, marked up, reconciled, and passed by Sept 30th of this fiscal year.
Sick of these damn CRs and pork-laden Omnibus bills that drive us into debt.
Bill Gates was among a ‘wide range’ of CEOs and labor bosses who lobbied to change Manchin’s mind on the Inflation Reduction Act: report
https://www.yahoo.com/video/bill-gates-among-wide-range-164610116.html
Bill Gates needs to disappear from our lives.
Manchin betrays this country at every step he takes and it will never change just like those who call themselves conservatives or republicans.
Whatever Manchin claims was promised him will be swept under the rug just like every important thing in DC while we get F***ed
Joe is a moron!
he thought he had some leverage
and just got played like a fine tuned instrument by the uniparty !
and this clown thinks he is smart enough for a run for president?
that’s funnier then watching him just get played ! lol
What I want to know is: Who are the 12 idiots that are going to vote for a Pres. Manchin?
When Nov arrives, the senate could go either way, so I expect the communists to drag their feet on this bill. If it does go forward, I see the turtle using a few deceptions to push this over the hump.
My very own barrASSo recently introduced 3 bills: one will promote more production of biodiesel, and the other promotes “sustainable” aviation fuel…whatever the hell that means.
I sent him an email asking if he was a member of the WEF, or if he supported them. He sent me back a form letter giving me a very brief definition of the WEF, and that he would keep my concerns in mind if they ever came up in legislation.
Never underestimate the ability of the repub RINOs to F things up.
I would take that as a “yes”.
Look at the date March 31, 2022<————–He is supporting BBB and ESG
Manchin and the BBB, Intel+Microsoft and ESG, and SEIA in NYC
There was a lot of optimism about the BBB Act, ITC, solar potential in NY and more at the Solar Finance, Tax, & Buyers Seminar in New York — lawyers, CPAs, developers, and solar politics.
March 31, 2022<————–
John Fitzgerald Weaver
Next on stage was a group led by SEIA’s Erin Duncan, who expressed optimism over the signing of the Build Back Better (BBB) legislation — specifically, on the subject of solar construction (along with direct pay) and manufacturing tax credits.
Duncan’s opinion was shared by everyone on stage. James Dennis reminded the audience that West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin had recently suggested that the BBB legislation must be finalized by July 4th so that there is time for it to be signed before the August recess — in time for Congress to go home and shake hands.
https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/03/31/manchin-and-the-bbb-intelmicrosoft-and-esg-and-seia-in-nyc/
Please note: the ESG policies here
Build Back Debtors (motto of Congress and the FED)
Build back Deader (motto of the WHO, CDC, FDA)
no, it’s just kabuki theater.
manchin is a joke. There is no way in hell he can be trusted…
All of a sudden the media, including some on Fox, are telling us the races are tightening, and the democrats may not lose the Senate, may even pick up a seat or two. I’m from Ohio, and J. D. Vance, the RINO, hasn’t run nearly any ads whatsoever, yet the demorat, Tim Ryan is running ads like there’s no tomorrow. It’s just typical Uniparty tactics, and it’s disgusting. Manchin is a complete, compromised loser, and West Virginians would do well to throw his ass to the wind. Elections are pretty much over, and nothing these toadstools do will change a damn thing. Sorry folks, but the only thing that will set this nation back on the right path is the citizenry overthrowing the criminally insane dingbats currently occupying DC. Everything else is pie in the sky BS.
Yep. Republicans whine constantly for money, but they run almost no TV or radio ads, while Dems saturate all media. They have no intention of winning. That cash stays in their pockets. And Ronna Daniel is the worst party boss of my lifetime.
According to Open Secrets, Tim Ryan’s campaign has a whole lot more money in the kitty. That almost 6:1 difference probably is the reason for the advertising imbalance.
Tim Ryan $ 21,516,462
JD Vance $ 3.623.515
https://www.opensecrets.org/races/election?id=OH
Joe will be voted out of public office before “his” deal legislation is ever drawn up.
His deal will never see the light of day. These people would lie to their own Mother’s face 100 times over before they will allow another drop of American oil be drilled.
Just another sucker and idiot in DC.
Joe would have gone down as the hero of WV if he had just said no deal and I’m changing parties right now. Now he will be remembered for the idiot who put hundreds if not thousands of worthless, inefficient windmills that breakdown far to often in winter throughout WV.
Bye bye Manchin the voters are done with you.
At approximately the 9:30 mark of the Chuck Todd interview, Manchin said… “I think people are sick and tired of politics Chuck, I really do, I think they’re sick and tired of Democrats and Republicans fighting and feuding and holding pieces of legislation hostage because they didn’t get what they wanted or something or someone might get credit for something…”
Wait… “…fighting and feuding and holding pieces of legislation hostage because they didn’t get what they wanted…?”
Isn’t that exactly what HE just got finished doing and is the topic of this particular interview?
Astute…thanks.
Nicely done, Sundance. This is the only way to get this legislative monster to pass muster with the Senate Parliamentarian.
Why don’t they just remove all the roadblocks Joetato put into place on Day 1 when we were energy independent? Why do they need legislation to reverse what wasn’t done by legislation??
A sly post, but in the end Pete will take the hit and really, really be grateful. If I were a drinking man I would say “bottoms up!” but in that company it is too dangerous, too dangerous!
cute!
I surely do hope he holds fast on carried interest. That is a hedge fund boondoggle. Trump wanted to do away with carried interest but couldn’t get it done.
If this bill becomes law and frees up the energy sector to increase production again, the green pagans will absolutely fly around on their brooms.
I don’t want anymore Democrat politicians switching to the Republican Party because that is how we get so darn many RINO’S. I know Trump was a democrat but he had a lot of time with the average workers in his line of business.
Pretty smooth answer considering he is representing a deep red state.
*******
WATCH: @chucktodd: “Do you want the Democrats to keep control” of Congress in November?”
@Sen_JoeManchin: “Whatever the voters choose … I’ve always taken the approach, whomever you send me, that’s your representative and I respect them. … I don’t play the politics that way.”
Source:
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/07/democrat-senator-joe-manchin-wont-say-whether-wants-democrats-win-upcoming-mid-terms/
Manchin is a lying dog-faced pony soldier.
Not going to get excited about any possibility tha Joe Manchin would become a RINO.
Didn’t you state that West Virginia now has to endure wind farms and that Mexico and Canada will build batteries?
Didn’t Manchin vote to seat Justice Jackson who claims to not be a biologist so as not to define female?
You know they will cheat and lie to get their majority another way.
It is a deep deep Deep State.
Didn’t follow in detail, but got the headline + a few paragraphs.
Manchin holds out with a secret ace in the hole that he showed only to the Schulosi Twins. They “freaked” and cut a deal. Manchin struts out fondling his ace.
Fast forward, and no promised devilries (did I say devilries? I meant deliveries) ensue. Manchin huffs, calls Schulosi, and says “I quit” and joins the Republicans.
Romney’s shock collar goes off, and he goes full delicto, making a beeline to Schulosi’s four feet. After they are finished wiping the slobber off their shoes, they instruct Romney that his chit has been called, so pop to. Romney then makes his canned speech about restoring proper balance of power and switches from Republican to Independent, caucusing with the Democrats.
Manchin fumes.
Hilarious and likely true
Not sure how well a flip to democrat would work in the 2nd most Republican state in the nation.
He votes like a dem so what diff would it make?
Oh Chucky boy, You can’t intimidate Manchin. Pelosi and Schumer have been trying to do that for years. Give it UpChuck!
Empty promises from Joe Manchin. The midterms with switch the Senate to the Republicans. This means $370 billion spent on the Green New Deal energy programs will be a waste. Without unemployment and Green New Deal, this can be corrected!
This Bill does not fix high energy prices, but instead represents more port. Senator Joe Manchin knows that switching all these energy policies back to those in use by President Trump will fix this problem in the November Midterms. You’re spending 370 billion dollars for 4 months, for what.
One simple example:
Senator Joe Manchin cut a deal for removal of regulatory roadblocks to current energy programs and expanded energy development. Cut a deal to remove regulatory roadblocks on what energy programs and expand what energy programs. This all means nothing without seeing the detail.
Joe Manchin is West Virginia’s Charlie Crist.
That’s the ultimate insult. Good one.
“If Schumer, Pelosi or Biden renege, then Manchin switches parties and the Senate flips into Republican control immediately. That’s his leverage.”
So TPTB told Mancin “I’ll gladly pay you Thursday for a hamburger today.”
And Manchin gave them the burger.
And we’re supposed to believe that Manchin is a man of his word — a ‘word’ which we can only speculate about, because what he has essentially said is, “Just trust me”.
And if he does switch parties, who on the Republican side of the Uni-party is going to do a *&^% thing, about anything, besides sell us further down the Globo-Nazi river?
And if by some miracle the midterm elections are not rigged again, and the Republican side of the Uni-party becomes the majority, Manchin’s supposed ‘leverage’ becomes moot — just like it always was.
Welcome to the political-class version of three card Monte.
Step right up. Five will get you ten, and ten will get you twenty.
I don’t trust Manchin any more than I trust any Dem.
All he has to do is flip to GOP NOW. That stops them in their tracks.
He’s delusional if he thinks the left wing of his party will make him their nominee for POTUS. He’s straight, he’s white, he’s from a Southern state they feel is inferior, blah, blah, blah.
They’d probably force Biden out, let Harris be Potus, then claim she didn’t promise him anything.
That would be the easy way to get the legislation he wants.
And he could still be the 50th vote for the so-called Inflation Reduction Act.
The way a few states look in the Senate, I think the Dems could hold the Senate even w/out Manchin if this all were to take place after Nov election.
What will the left wing of the party do if Dem leadership puts in place Manchin’s demands for more coal, gas, and oil development.
I trust all of them as much as I trust Lawfare.
No to it all. Just no.
Manchin has 100 days to carry out his threat, and Schumer, Pelosi, Biden have 100 days to perform on this.
They all must be pretty confident that they will still have any power in 100 days.
In 100 days it will all be moot, and Turtleface will probably tell him to take a hike back to his old clockroom.
So this agreement for “consequences” is only important if they hold the Senate, And ALL INDICATIONS ARE THEY WILL NOT!
Manchin is a liar in league with many other known liars. As the potato in chief would put it, “we’re screwed, folks, no joke.”
They all behave like there are no consequences because when you control election 🗳 outcomes, there are no consequences.
In all of this, who is left out? Who is completely ignored? The American people. Who says we want ANY Of this hogwash?
I agree with you Sundance. Threat of changing parties seems to make sense.
His comments about Sinema-Az are interesting.
Manchin would just be a Trojan Horse in a Republican Party and as unreliable as Collins and Co.?
If you follow DC politics long enough, you know manchin is lying. We’ve seen this type of Kubuki theater from McConnell and R’s. This time its “fake moderate Joe”. The scam is you sign on to something you pledged to oppose. Then You say “I ONLY broke my promise because I got such a GREAT DEAL because IN THE FUTURE, the Democrats/liberals wil do XYZ.”
Then in the future, the Democrats renege. And Manchin/McConnell will say nothing, unless a reporter asks them about it. And the caravan moves on. In 2009-2016, we saw McConnell play this game over and over. Bush I played it over “No new taxes” in 1990, Reagan did it on Amnesty in 1986, McCain/others TRIED to play it over Amnesty in the 2000s.
Any politician who attended the funeral of Robert Byrd (all prominent Democrats including Osama and Manchin) should have been completely removed from any political office and had every single cent removed from the bank.
Manchin has always been a fake. HE votes with Schumer 90 percent of the time. During the Kavanaugh confirmation, he made a big fuss about voting for “Judges who go by the Constituion” and pretending to be “socially conservative”. But when the vote came, he waited till AFTER Collins clinched the confirmation. THEN he voted for Kavanaugh. IRC, he voted against ACB, and for Biden’s extreme judge Brown.
This is why every single Democrat office in America should be vandalized and they should be afraid to report to work. Enough already. Where is our organization?
That’s not who we are.
Ok Erik Erickson you fat as$.
Fu$k that BS as the churches go woke.
We need help and need to small donate this situation off the books while running the sad Kochs off our books.
We’re still paying for Bush/McCain 2008 and Romney 2012 with their deep state allies.
They all suck and should have fentanyl shot up their veins.
Pedro L Gonzalez Twitter get ahold of our country.
I always said they should make Manchin the Majority Leader of the Senate, killing two birds (or one bird and one turtle) with one stone. Can’t be any worse, might be better in terms of foreign policy.
Manchin’s by no means entirely in our boat
But neither are many Republicans
But is sounds like he knows how to play hardball
And has little patience for there the hard Left are taking his party
Count small blessings where they arise, I reckon
The guy has continuously sold out his constituents, only to make a stand near election time. Wake up.
Joe Manchin is a slick politician. Next question?
Someone told me once that the saying should be turned into “feeding two birds with one scone.” Anyways, I think Manchin recognizes that the “green new deal” has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with “improving” ANYTHING in the atmosphere we live in. Green to me, means money. Nothing else. Que Bono? Who benefits? Certainly those in the far east.
I love that Manchin knew how to use his quiet manner to igngite the corn cob in the dark place re Todd. That guy will be scratching for WEEKS trying to figure out what just happened to him re this interview.
Cannot portend to know what Manchin will or will not do with his party affiliation. But as far as I am concerned, he knows WHAT ENERGY IS. And I guess he is not willing to let the USA go into the dark ages while those most adamant about green energy and climate change are buying up ocean front property , flying their private jets and boating around the world on their yachts, doing their insider trading and telling the global population to suck it up or die. ALL are serpents of the worst kind and speak with FORKED TONGUES. EVIL, and don’t give a damn.
#1. When have Schumer or NaziNan not reneged on a deal or better yet, stuck language in the bill that negates the deal?
#2. Manchin’s threat to change parties (if he did) is as empty as his promise that additional taxes & Build Back Better was DEAD
#3. I hope Manchin can afford sky-high fuel prices at the marina and/or get special dispensation to buy fuel for his yacht when we get put on gas rationing.
#4. With no bill in hand, there is no “future” legislation. And you got nuttin’ in writing of promises made.
I bet Manchin DOES switch parties after the GOP takes the Senate. He’s a man who knows when to abandon the sinking ship.
He said “We paid down debt”? Or you mean “retired old debt and borrowed much more NEW DEBT”.
LIAR.