When Donald Trump won the 2016 election, even before he took office, CTH warned about the permanent bureaucratic class in Washington DC and what it meant for an outside to enter this system. With a consistent question being raised, it is well worth the reminder – because the answer has nothing to do with Donald Trump.
First the question:
The short answer is, it’s not that complicated. There is one permanent bureaucratic class in/around DC (two wings, same bird). The pool of appointees comes from this UniParty system. Donald Trump as an outsider faced animosity from the system itself. There are no MAGA bureaucrats.
That said, the more fulsome answer is the real issue. Because it doesn’t matter who the ‘outsider’ is, they are going to suffer the same fate until a structural change takes place.
If you take a small potential pool of America-First administrators, and then overlay the DC filtration system in the Senate, ‘advise and consent’, what you realize is that any appointment has to be approved by the same system that is opposed to the agenda the nominee would represent.
In essence, the DC system is designed to protect itself.
It doesn’t matter who the next presidential candidate is. If that President wants to advance a policy agenda in favor of the American people, they will face the same problem. So let me give one perspective on how to tackle the issue.
To give one example as a baseline, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell did not block President Trump’s ability to have recess appointments because the republican controlled Senate supported Donald Trump.
Senator McConnell blocked President Trump because the DC system was opposed to President Trump.
Machiavelli said, “It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institution and merely lukewarm defenders in those who gain by the new ones.” A prescient and oft repeated quote that is pertinent to the situation.
When our founders created the system of government for our constitutional republic, they built in layers of protection from federal control over the lives of people in the states. Over time those protections have been eroded as the federal bureaucracy has seized power. One of the biggest changes that led to the creation of the permanent political class was the 17th amendment.
Our founders created a system where Senators were appointed by the state legislatures. In this original system the senate was bound by obligation to look out for the best interests of their specific states. Under the ‘advise and consent‘ rules of Senate confirmation for executive branch appointments, the intent was to ensure the presidential appointee -who would now carry out regulatory activity- would not undermine the independent position of the states.
When the 17th amendment (direct voting for Senators) took the place of state appointments, the perspective of ‘advise and consent’ changed. The senate was now in the position of ensuring the presidential appointee did not undermine the power of the permanent bureaucracy, which is the root of power for the upper-chamber.
Senate committees, Homeland Security, Judiciary, Intelligence, Armed Services, Foreign Relations, etc. now consists of members who carry an imbalanced level of power within government. The senate now controls who will be in charge of executive branch agencies like the DOJ, DHS, FBI, CIA, ODNI, DoD, State Dept and NSA, from the position of their own power and control in Washington DC.
In essence, the 17th amendment flipped the intent of the constitution from protecting the individual states to protecting the federal government.
Almost every source of federal issue: ex. spending, intervention and foreign assistance, conflict with the states, burdensome regulation, surveillance and spying on American citizens, the two-tiered justice system and the erosion of liberty & individual rights (see COVID examples), can be sourced back to the problem created by the 17th amendment.
As long as the United States senate is more concerned with retaining their own power, no executive branch office holder can break through that system.
In the balance of power dynamic, the Senate has an inordinate amount of unilateral power within the congressional branch. This power dynamic is a direct outcome of the 17th amendment. Indeed, many have argued – myself included, that no single modification to the constitution was as structurally damaging to the framework of government, specifically the balance of power within it, as the 17th amendment.
The House of Representatives was created to be the voice of the people, ie, “The Peoples’ House.” However, the U.S. Senate was structurally created to be the place where state government had representation in the federal government decision-making. The 17th amendment completely removed state representation, and we have been in an escalating battle over state’s rights ever since.
It doesn’t matter who the President is, they do not choose their cabinet. Ultimately the senate does. That’s the core problem.
Overlay that DC structural issue with the fact that almost all of the bureaucracy created by this skewed DC system is now in place to defend itself from any outside effort to change it, and you get this problem that Donald Trump exposed.
Repeal the 17th amendment and you will see the most significant restoration of freedom, liberty and social balance in our lifetime.
Making America Great Again, requires repealing the 17th amendment…..
Civics classes are a must. I don’t know what we were all doing when the Constitution was weaponized against itself and us, but here we are. Thank You Sundance.
This is a continual issue I see here of people blaming Trump for something that he has no control over. People a pizZed because of Trump appointees such as DOJ and FBI. At most, Trump can only make suggestions. Ultimately the Senate must approve the suggestion. Ultimately the Senate has control of the appointment and if Trump does not like the Senate decision, the Senate can do it again with someone almost as good as the last pick that failed.
Supposing Trump kept rejecting picks, then the media would just blame Trump for failure on a continual string of picks. Trump would take all the blame for the failures of the Senate.
This is why I have said multiple times that Trump should run for Senate this election. He would be back in the game, whip the Senate into shape and prepare a cleaner Senate for a 2024 run. More importantly it would be a monkey wrench into the gears of the Biden administration. Without Trump in the Senate, we will have another 2 years of unfettered Biden.
By the time 2024 arrives, Biden will have signed an unconditional surrender and there will be no office of the President.
Even when President Trump outfoxed the process to get John Ratcliffe in as DNI, the system ended up swallowing him whole.
I had so much hope after Ric Grennell’s temporary appointment to that post. He really knew how to push their button and get things done!
Grenell takes no prisoners. I admire him tremendously.
Office of the President has turned into the punching bag for congressional spending. Massive spending become the President’s fault because it historically becomes deficit incurred during X’s administration. It seems to work pretty effectively. That allowed Biden to claim he shaved 1 trillion off the deficit when Trump was President. It was all congressional spending and Biden had absolutely no control over it.
in fairness to the constitution and the spirit and deliberate intellectual calculus from our giant sized founders, no single person should EVER hold that kind of power. it’s king power.
however, what HAS HAPPENED is that the senate for better of for worse has king KONG making powers.
it’s a very interesting thing, this co-equal branches of government.
It’s not perfect, but I’m not going to trade it for anything else the world has to offer.
if there was TWO THINGS, I believe that would make this nation more balanced and restore important powers to THE PEOPLE, would be to remove the electoral college period. National popularity vote. Period. One vote. One person. No inter state compacts. No winner takes all.
Second: recall powers for each state. Your representative is faithless, recall happens. Period. This would have a powerful impact on politics in DC.
this is for the President of the United States. States can do whatever they want. But for the President, it should be a “flat” vote. And for congressional representatives. recall power back to the people in the district/state that voted them in.
Further, I believe as indicated by the founders, who debated this very subject ad nasuem, there MUST BE some qualification test FOR presidents (and I would argue also for representatives in congress).
Not simply age, but actual qualifications. Mental acuity, sanity, constitutional aptitude, legal and economic and business experiences, well educated, no special interest encumberances.
Sadly, the electoral college never achieved a qualification test. EVER! But that was one of the most important considerations beyond simply creating a process to alleviate a logistics issue, which hasn’t exist in the US for the last 100 years or more!
get rid of electoral college.
recall powers for state representatives.
two things.
will it happen?
unlikely, given the state deep state powers to be seem happy with the status quo.
did I fail to mention revolution, stage 4: transfer of power.
it’s envitable. We are just a whisper away.
We must never forget WHY a revolution happens. What the goals are…Where is the end game.
we are not to destroy this country, but to restore it and place the power back where it belongs according to the awesome document that describes our national identity.
God Bless America
This article is a dagger that will destroy the cabal if implemented.
Also todays heroes are scarce and hard to find.
Sundance is a true hero.
Best comment on this situation since Neil Boortz retired.
Wow do I miss him.
The combination of Rush and Boortz was terrific.
Boortz said he retired because he didn’t want to give Obozo any of his money.
I think the Senior Executive Service needs more scrutiny / oversight / reform.
No, the SES needs complete elimination–with prejudice.
They need public trials and executions. There is no doubt about their intent regardless of legal versus lawful, hocus pocus, wordsmithing.
Exactly. All and anyone holding a political appointment needs to resign Day One of his second term. All 3 and 4-star general officers–same, resign immediately. One and two star are vetted for promotion. No problem if they don’t pass, plenty of LTC’s and colonels ready to step up. We can afford to have one and two star generals running things for a few years. Military is bloated with general officers. Immediate no new hire policy in effect. All departments have one year to reduce size ten percent and two years to reduce it by 20. Budgets are decimated each year. The beast can be starved. Some departments eliminated. Some departments moved out of DC area. This just for starters.
Wish I could give you 100 “likes” for that comment.
Maximus-Cassius one-upped you with his comment. Eliminate them altogether.
✅️Thanks Sundance
You’re brief explanation of the 17th Amendment bringing protection to the DC government class gives clarity to what must change along with election integrity 👍👌
“In essence, the 17th amendment flipped the intent of the constitution from protecting the individual states to protecting the federal government.”
I have been saying this very thing for years, the 17th Amendment began the long slide of this Country into tyranny. The 17th Amendment took the election of Senators from the states and made them Super Representatives, not for the states, but for their base.
must be repealed, as also Patriot Act abolished for starters
“In essence, the DC system is designed to protect itself.”
Love the Machiavelli quote. Most people can’t appreciate the corruption at the highest levels of power.
The Uniparty has become like “Skynet” in the “Terminator” movies, it will nuke us to protect its self.
Can also tie in a recent example. Ryan gets onboard as the speaker. Citing need for “change”.
Bamboozles everyone into believing that change would be getting rid of Obamacare, and
opposition to Obama’s policies.
Ryan does the exact opposite: offers Obama everything he’d want, short of Ryan’s wife.
( Who Obama wouldn not have been interested in, anyway).
Damage is done, Ryan resigns in record time from his “dream job”.
Ryan gets the $$$$$ pay off from the big boys at Fox, for services rendered,
with implicit instructions that the status quo is to be protected at all costs.
Character assassination, onrelenting bad press is fired up at Fox
the “conservative” outlet. Where conservation is being practiced against
any and all threats of actual citizen participation.
Beware of anyone who has “President of College Republicans”on his resume.
Trump needs “government bureaucracy university” to train people who want to serve in a MAGA administration now! They need to be pre-qualified with strong general knowledge of their relevant area of knowledge and expertise along with a correct understanding and respect for the US constitution.
If the problem is the hiring pool? Then make a new pool!
Yes… 17th amendment wrecked the constitution. WE have to ensure election integrity and every one of us work to get the right people in at the same time. It will take a minimum of two election cycles. Hopefully not more. We have to do this.
As explained by Sundance, these new MAGA people would not be confirmed by the corrupt system currently in place.
good point. i’m sure you have said it many times before… This is the first I’ve seen the coorelation between the 17th Amendment and the Advise and Consent process.
Essentially the Senator Class became another Federal Institution it looks like.
Problem is, Trump is not, by definition, a doctrinaire conservative. He’s conservative on the issues that matter most to us. But, his “RINO RADAR” isn’t as attuned as it needed to be or needs to be going forward. Not sure yet what lessons he’s learned about who to trust.
Thanks for not reading the article before commenting. Noted.
Exactly 💯 💯
LOL
My point is that Morton is asking the right question. Trump should have had a better understanding of the individuals he was dealing with, Priebus, Ryan, et al. I agree that the 17th Amendment wasn’t a great idea. But, I don’t blame it for where Trump failed.
Trump doesnt get any appointment not approved by the 17th amendment super Team.
He could do the Acting thing non-stop, and risk looking like a freak that the media would exploit – making the 2020 steal more believable.
by eating a little shit during his term – he stayed noble looking, and American only – that makes the 2020 steal LOOK like a steal still.
if he would of been played as a petty tyrant by the media for doing Acting Acting Acting positions, most people wouldnt even get 2000mules a 2nd thought or even care about the movie.
Yes, what part of “it doesn’t matter WHO we make POTUS, without changing this dynamic, they will encounter the same intractable problem” (paraphrasing) don’t some people understand?
PDJT DID enter as a neophyte, but he DID learn.
He has very openly expressed his contempt of Rinos like McConnell and Graham, and is now saying “We must elect America First Republicans, whereas before he was saying “We must elect Republicans”.
And, a leader can only lead, where his followers will go.
Lol .
My thoughts exactly!!! Good grief!
You missed the whole article. 🤷♀️
I did not.
The point I made is relative to the article (read it again if you need to).
In reality….
“In simple odds, the chance of any constitutional amendment being repealed would be roughly the same as a person living to 80 years old being struck by lightning during their lifetime, according to National Weather Service data. And for the Second Amendment, which was rooted in the English Declaration of Rights a century before the Bill of Rights was ratified, the odds would likely be steeper.
In recent years, three other amendments have been subject of repeal talk: the 17th Amendment (the direct election of Senators), the 16th Amendment (the federal income tax), and the 22nd Amendment (presidential term limits). None of that talk came close to fruition.”
https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/what-does-it-take-to-repeal-a-constitutional-amendment
We need to get a lot nastier (imagine the leftists) when we’re in power (if that ever happens)…that’s the solution.
Limit the money flowing into these filthy scumbags. That’s another one.
Then the pertinent question is : Show Trump have gone third party once out of office ? or is there a snake’s chance in Hell that he can accomplish anything in the GOP? I personally don’t think he can because there are so many of them. I’ve hated the GOPe since my Tea Party days.
If your third party can elect 300 representatives and 60 Senators, have at it. Otherwise you’re just a bunch of powerless back-benchers.
I think the best option for Trump in the next two years is Speaker. He could demand regular order for the budget, audit any agency that wants money and is getting outside funds, investigate, subpoena, put in poison pills on spending authorizations, i.e., nothing for that. As a member of the gang of 8, he could expose a lot more of the corruption. Then there is the impeachment of judges and puppets. He might have so much fun doing that that he would stay on for a decade or more.
Gotcha beat, hated the Rinos since we called them “Rockerfeller Republicans”,..1964.
The party must be subject to an unremitting insurgency; the “precinct strategy”, do an Inet search.
It CAN be done, it HAS been done, and does produce concrete results,..and its happening right now, perhaps in a district near YOU.
Not to long ago, Broward and Miami Dade Counties, in Florida had “Democrat machine politics” that rivaled Chicago.
LOOK whats happening in Florida,now.
Its not JUST Desantis, he is able to accomplish so much, because he has a supportive Legislature, SoS, etc behind him.
And they got their because the base PUT them there.
We need AmericaFirst precinct captains, local party, County, State and eventually National Party chairs; its called Grass roots organising.
The RINOS in control of the party are NOT going to relinquish their hold on power willingly, it will have to be wrested from them, precinct by precinct, but it CAN be done.
And its happening, right now, all over the country.
My opinion is that while we speak longingly about President Trump being returned to office, I believe the traitorous Jan 6 committee has other plans, the end result of which is to indict him on fraudulent and manufactured charges which will tie him up in the fight against them and thus disqualify him from running again. No matter how insane their plans are (to us or any one who isn’t insane themselves), I think they are that desperate.
This, I believe, is their raison d’etre. I’ve noticed over the past few days and all of a sudden spokespeople for this administration and the Dems are parroting the same point…that he is a violent insurrection, and by gosh he needs to be prosecuted. They will keep this up for as long and as loudly as they can. This push for more voter fraud so that the House does not revert to the Rs in November seems to me to be picking up speed. And these monstrous Dems will do everything to make sure that they retain control, no matter if they have to sell their souls to do it (assuming they have one and assuming it is still theirs to sell).
Further, I more than suspect the Rs serving now wouldn’t mind one teensy bit if this were to happen. Their silence on the political prisoners and on the insurrection comments by Dems tells me all I need to know.
I do live in bless-ed hope this will fail. But I am also a realist. We will need all of God’s mercy, grace and help to fight the good fight.
Trump did go the 3rd Party route in 2000. He ran for president on the Reform Party ticket and won the California primary (they went first for the Reform party) with ~35% before he dropped out. Trump dropped out because the Reform Party could not go up against the Democrat and Republican machines that comprise the Uniparty and their media allies. Trump was running into the same issues that the Libertarian, Green, and Constitution parties have now. Media blackout, debate lockout, RNC and DNC suing to keep them off ballots etc …
So your options are to try third party, or win in the primaries.
outsider
I hope there is someone close to President Trump who can help him see the value of your suggestion Sundance.
Sometimes I wonder though. I know he has a lot on his plate and I don’t know how he does what he does but he needs someone the keep him apprised as the what goes on at the Treehouse.
I visit many sites every day when I get up and have a real good feel for who is real and who the fakers are. That leads me to be sure to go to the Treehouse first. I hope Trump does too. He would be well served in doing so.
I am confident either PDJT, or a trusted advisor lurk here, on a regular basis.
I have seen several instances of Sundance writing something with a novel take, and within HOURS PDJT saying or doing something which reflected a responce.
Agreed.
Sundance has stated the effect very well.
Would it even be possible to repeal the 17th amendment? I’ve been all for its repeal for years, but unless something drastic happens, its repeal is highly unlikely.
Prhibition was a Constitutional amendment, so yes the 17th, and 22nd CAN be repealed.
IF there is enough public demand to overcome the Uniparty resistance.
Destroy the Rinos, you destroy the Uniparty, cause a one-winged bird can’t fly.
Destroy the Uniparty, the Dems become a permanent minority party, and then ALL things are possible; School choice, sealed border, break up Big tech and MSM Monopolies, Election integrity, and even finally getting some JUSTICE.
FAIL to break the RINO control, and NOTHING is possible, as Sundance says “No matter WHO is POTUS”.
Sundance, I have been hammering this point on this site for years: no nominee for an office requiring confirmation will make it out of committee to the Senate floor unless he has McConnell’s blessing. The only mistake McConnell made in this regard across the whole of Trump’s tenure was Adelman– and McConnell will not make this mistake again.
What Trump needs to do is fire every political appointee he inherits across the whole of the federal bureaucracy on day 1, and freeze federal hiring to leave all of these departments and agencies rudderless. Step 2 is to do a deep personnel dive, and start transferring tenured civil service people out of the DC region to regional and foreign outposts, the more remote and inhospitable the better. Many will retire rather than transfer.
This is how you decapitate the swamp.
You defeat this by Extreme Federalism at CTH points out. by Reducing the power of the Federal State you make their Committee pointless.
end Terrorism laws. end surveillance rules. end secret courts. Kill terrorist in the open, assign blame to countries that host them and eat that country up – cut aid, attack if necessary.
👍Sounds pretty simple and effective. This would work.👌
literally the FBI is the untouchable mafia right now
eliminate their pay and they’ll be touching themselves………..
Extreme federalism looks good on paper, but the body count will never be there. Open primaries and the splitter strategy will keep successul MAGA candidates to a minimum. As for terrorism, “attack if necessary” feeds the beast, which is the military-industrial complex. Do you really want to go to war with Iran?
The answer is temporary department heads who keep their jobs until McConnell approves someone to fill the seat. An honest AG and FBI Director could get rid of McConnell.
Temporaries must have gone through the confirmation process.
This is a good reminder of much of the problem as Sundance succinctly put it, the permanent bureaucratic class in and around D.C.
While I agree that the 17th Amendment needs repeal,I do not see a full resolution of these problems without also repealing the 16th Amendment and abolishing the Federal Reserve as well as they are all at the root of far too many of our modern problems.
A chapter in ” The Creature From Jekyll Island ” , a book all about the ” Fed ” is titled.
‘ The Creature Swallows Congress ‘ – and indeed it has.
Perhaps a Convention of States if it could be narrowly focused.
Tactical civics, as Sundance has called it is going to be much of the solution possibly leading to just that.
can you defeat those without ever having to repeal? by local elections and some powers locally being used? at the county level?
or is the sole extreme federalism push back in who you elect for Governor. that example appears to be the most drastic in harming the FED STATE
It’s interesting, if you go back and look, all of these Amendments were ratified by the states and the Federal Reserve was created in and around 1913-14 (the 16th Amendment was passed by Congress in 1909). Woodrow Wilson was president from 1913-1921) — not sure he can take the credit for the Amendments since they had to be ratified over the years by the states, but all of the communists/Marxist ideologies got their start about the same time. The early 20th Century was full of pitfalls that are coming to their fruition as we look around today at the damage done.
Taking all of that as true, if only PDT hadn’t raved about those nominees like they were his grandchildren. He defended them against many MAGA voters until they couldn’t be defended any longer. Barr and Esper are the latest.
and we need a new broom………..amazing PT was able to do the work arounds he did.
Feds would kill us before they’d let us do that.
Great insight once again, Sundance. Thank you.
Sundance had it right when he said We have to take back our local then state governments. Tennessee is a good example Republicans have a super majority and all we get is the slow train to Socialism. The people in our legislature are by and large Republican UniParty. While we are trying to take back our county government, the UniParty marches on. The fight is one county at a time and then one district at a time. I hope Trump takes a meat clever to Washington DC in early 2025. While we try and take back our local government, Trump should reduce employment in DC by about 2/3’s.
A 3 pronged (at least) attack.
One, at the local level, the “precinct strategy”that IS happening, right now.
Second, National strategy to give MTG and Borner, Ghomert, etc. some much needed reinforcements in the House, at least ONE AmericaFirst US Senator, to be a pita to McConnell.
Third, achieving AmericaFirst control over more States, so Florida is not the only one,…IN ORDER TO attack using aggressive Federalism.
There are SO MANY AREAS where the Fed. govt usurped powers reserved to the States and the People, and have only “gotten away with it” cause State gov’s and We, the People didn’t fight back.
Good news is, its never too late. Take it to court, ignore their empty threats of withholding funding, and the Courts will rule for the States.
It just takes State Govs, with supportive A.G.’s and Legislatures to push back, they inherently ALREADY have been dealt the winning hand, they just need to PLAY it, and the Fed govt will fold.
This CAN be a very powerful tool for cutting the Federal govt. down to size.
I think this is why the RINO’s continue to do anything possible to keep President Trump from winning in 2024.
If he does win, it’s his last term, so he would be unbridled. He would be able to tell Turtle and Luntz’s BoiToi to either confirm his appointments, or face a bruising public battle that would not be good for them.
Imagine the spectacle of a Trump nominee going before these buffoons and being rejected.
Given how nasty Turtle can be, I could see a number of strategic leaks designed to ruin a nominee, regardless of whether they were true or not.
Turtle IS at the very center of the problem, but he has a group of decepticons working WITH him,that also MUST go; look at important committee chair positions to identify them.
Same in the House. All must go, removing one is of no real effect.
Fully agree with Sundance
Needs to be done, but good luck getting 2/3 of the Senate on board with repealing the 17th Amendment. MAGA candidates for Senate could make repeal part of their agenda.
Other option is Convention of States, but be prepared to have every Democrat operative bused to the convention to take it over. Media will call it “democracy in action”.
This is exactly why lefty politicians need to be given the boot at local and State levels. If they are rendered to a small minority it will be much more difficult for them to have enough direct influence to thwart an attempt at repeal of the 17th Amendment as well as putting a stop to a lot of the excesses of big government, or rather a fat bureaucracy.
Any outsider might do well to prepare a deep bench of like-minded nominees for each cabinet position and then use the same maneuver Trump did with Ric Grenell and John Ratcliffe.
Force them to choose between a nominee they don’t want and leaving an acting cabinet member they don’t want in place.
President Trump would not have a need to maneuver, just the deep bench.
Offer a nominee, let Turtle play his games and take the battle to him.
Given the mood of the country, what shape we will be in in 2024 and his current endorsement success, I don’t see Turtle winning in the long run.
Turtle, if running, will be up for re-election in 26, so he will have to play ball with Trump…
appoints “czars” … they decide department policy by advising the President what should happen then the President can order the swampy cabinet member to implement it … fire each one that refuses … until you get down to one that won’t and that goes for 2-3 layers below the cabinet member as well … sure it will get gummed up by the lower level “resistance” but they will have to unmask to gum things up and thus expose themselves to firing … a perfect solution … ? of course not … but a way forward …
I can’t stand the word czar in America!!
Good idea. It will take a number of these different solutions to finally get to the goal. This is definitely a combination of a marathon and a sprint….and nothing but strength of resolve to get it done!
Well stated, Sundance.
Two things…
First, the 17th Amendment will NEVER be repealed…ever…why? The Senate, in addition to the House, would have to propose an Amendment to repeal it, and it would have to pass by a 2/3 majority in both houses. Never happen.
That said, I don’t believe that the 17th was legitimately ratified by the States, as it makes no sense. Why would the state legislatures willingly divest themselves of the power to appoint the Senators…simple answer…they wouldn’t.
The 17th Amendment was passed by both houses in 1912, and ratified, supposedly, by 3/4 of the states in April of 1913. It should be noted that the 16h Amendment, which gave the authority to the Federal Gov’t to impose income taxes, was passed in 1909, and ratified in February of…wait for it… 1913.
A lot of shenanigans were going on back then. Remember that we didn’t have instant communications back then, and there are credible reports that state legislatures, Rhode Island is one, did not pass either Amendment, but were recorded in Washington to have passed them. By the time the states found out they ‘ratified it’, the deal was done…for both amendments.
Court cases were filed, but, like today, no court wanted to touch it…said it was a legislative function, and not reviewable by the courts…plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose.
As I said, it defies belief that state politicians would willingly give up the power to appoint the Senators…I mean, think of the graft they are giving up…think Rod Blagojevich…
Second, I think that DJT knew the powers that be would oppose him, but I don’t think he recognized the SCALE of the opposition until about 2 years in, and then it was too late to do anything about it.
I want him to run in 2024 because I think he would go into it eyes wide open, and he would take a wrecking ball to DC.
I think that the Uniparty KNOWS this, which is why they are doing anything and everything they can to try to get it so that he CANNOT run…
Unlike the first term, he would have a small pool of people he can trust to start, he knows for sure those he cannot trust, and he knows that there would be traitors within the administration dug in like ticks that he would need to dig out…
If the Senate doesn’t approve his Cabinet appointees, just run with perpetual ‘interim’ appointees…a la Bill Clinton.
Thing is…Trump loves the battle, the fight, and he has no qualms about going after people.
Would he be successful? Don’t know, but he will surely bloody them along the way. There is no other Republican, DeSantis included, who is willing to takes the gloves off and get bloodied in a street fight…and that will HAVE TO HAPPEN if we hope to turn this country around.
I would love Trump to win in 24, and clear the path for, at this point, DeSantis in 28…Interesting quandry…he would have to choose a VP who does NOT want to be President in 28. DeSantis needs to stay in FL until running for President…
Leo’s 2 cents…
It can happen. WE have to do more than b!+ch about things. We have to get involved in electing our states government as well as our US representatives. Draining the swamp is a job for ALL of us, not Trump or a bunch of powerful individuals. They are LEADING the way, not doing this by themselves. We have to be there to help.
Daniel,
Maybe I need to clarify…won’t happen…without a wholesale change of personnel in Congress…
And given the ‘2000mules’ issue, that will be daunting…and not pleasant…but always possible.
Idea…
If your state allows drop boxes, citizens of that state need to note the location of EVERY drop box, and organize to monitor, from a legal distance, with cameras, 24/7, with at least 2 people present, maybe more…and be prepared to record license plates, etc…
We have to get serious if we are going to take this back.
The repeal of the 17th amendment is only part of the problem. While it absolutely needs repealed the nuts and bolts mechanics if it’s dismantling is just as big of issue. Unless the deeply entrenched both in governmental agencies and in Congress are shattered, there are so many ways for bureaucrats to stonewall and slow walk, it seems pretty unlikely a single 4 year term would be enough time to rebuild the very systems these bureaucracies created.
this, as also the Patriot act destroyed. Aptly named to root out Patriots of the USA. typical deflection of the swamp 22 yrs later
I think 17th came in just about the same time as the Central Bank, 1913. I am thinking the bankers wanted a bespoke segment of the political class that was considered beyond reproach like the House of Lords. This so they could depict a neutral legislature. A legislature that was the first branch to fall to the illusion of a democratic republic. Easier to leverage the one National Government over each state.
Just a bunch of Royalist thinking they are better than the rest of us. They should all get real jobs!
Go back another 140 years from 1913 and Alexander Hamilton was starting a Federalist Party before the ink was dry on the Constitution. Bankers always want to centralize money and government. Federalism exists because of Centralization and the abuse of it.
Federalism is less the issue with its checks and balances all intact I would think, than this increasingly imperial style rule coming forth from D.C. and administered by the permanent bureaucratic class.
Hamilton if I remember correctly, was all for creating a new aristocratic class in America.
In retrospect it would have ben nice to have confederalisim which is what I think the states were thinking they were getting. I know Hamilton read 2 books on banking and started approximately 4 banks just after that. But I dont think banking was a major field of study at that time.
I guess the point I am making is the aristocracy finally got their foothold with the Federal Reserve System and a Federal Election of Senators rather than each state choosing 2
While this can be attempted through the normal appeal process, the only the Convention of States has the real chance of success.
https://conventionofstates.com/
https://amac.us/the-convention-of-states-movement/
Excellent!
How many get to the Senate with high and mighty words of MAGA, just to turnaround to be Anti-MAGA. This has been a well planned destruction of America since 1913! And to think the Fed. Reserve was created in 1913.
Income tax 1913, 17th amendment 1913. Is this how the number 13 became known as being unlucky. A bad year.
Also, John D. Rockefeller hijacking Medicine in America after the Flexner Report to Congress and his establishment of the American Cancer Society in 1913.
My recollection is the Senate fought PDJT the whole way, stalling scores of nominees. Still, as regards those within his scope, PDJT didn’t fire nearly as many people as he could have and put temps in their places. He made that choice. He wasn’t a greenhorn, rather highly skilled in business politics for decades. His slogan was ‘you’re fired’, as advertised on national television every week. He wasn’t, and isn’t, shy and retiring.
He made his choices. The results are what they are.
I’ve commented in the past that the Senate has too much power when it comes to the confirmation of cabinet appointees.
Ideally, President Trump should have only nominated people he really wanted. And if the Republicans in the Senate wanted to reject every single one of them, so be it.
That having been said, it’s still not clear to me that there were a lot of people President Trump wanted to nominate but didn’t because he thought they wouldn’t get confirmed.
Pick any Republican President with any Senate at any time in the last hundred years. Who faced the adversity PDJT did? PDJT came into office with majorities in both the Senate and House. How many times did Congress recess to allow him recess appointments? Never. How many other Presidents has that happened to? Good question.
This was a hit job on America and we’re reaping the fruits of it today. I’ll shed not one tear for any enemy going to God in what’s to come. They earned it.
that’s the biggest indictment of the Rino’s in the swamp. Treason mind you
Repealing the Seventeenth Amendment would return power to the State Legislatures and help decentralize power from DC.
But, how do the State Legislatures pick the Senators?
Wasn’t the 17th Amendment passed because of procedural difficulties with the original process?
When you want new class of politicians, don’t go to the barrel, get them off the tree
You are absolutely correct! Myself & fellow LOYAL Trump co-workers after Trump was elected from November 2016 to February 2017 submitted our names & resumes to the “Trump Team” to assist Trump with our knowledge & relationships as we did for over a year prior to get Trump elected. We expected to get hired especially not only because we were conservative, & worked our buts off for Trump, but because we are experienced doctors, lawyers & professionals.
We never heard a word from the “Trump Team”. We never spoke to anyone from the “Trump Team” let alone got hired. WE were obviously very disillusioned by Trump not hiring LOYAL Trump workers. WE knew exactly what would happen-Trump would be swallowed up by the deep state & WAS TOAST!
He was. Still Disillusioned!
I can help you with the reason why you were not contacted. SABOTAGE! Someone deleted the entire database of people who had submitted their resumes. Speculation at the time pointed to Pence personnel after they took over from Christie… but it was probably GAO people (the same ones who gave Mueller ALL of the transition materials illegally).
Hope that helps you to understand what happened.
This reality used to be explained away by the notion that appointees “went native”, and began to represent the bureaucracies instead of the American interest. But, in fact, going native is built into the Senate advise and consent process. The problem is that the 17th A is extremely unlikely to be repealed where we have a media machine that will spin it as “an attack on democracy”. For the foreseeable future the Senate GOP must be purged and replaced with a populist inspired majority. Both solutions present great obstacles with our dumbed down and easily bought off electorate.
i understand PJT already has a new cabinet in place, and under practice
The Founders gave us all we need. The 100% right to create new forms of government that works as we want.
Indeed, it is our right, it is our duty.
“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.” – T. Jefferson, US Declaration of Independence
“But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government.” – ibid.
I can hear it now. This will be the lefty, looney democrats defense if the Great Reset falls apart on them.
Weird that guy couldn’t figure that out. Trump given an approved list. And no recess appointments proves this out.
If Trump needs a solid mid / upper level MAGA executive for the EPA, I’m his man.
M.S. in Environmental Management; 25-plus years in the profession.
Thanks Maximus our great country needs real Americans in Government, Everyone on this website needs to get involved in Local Politics, from dog catcher to County Commissioner. That is the way to really Make America Great Again.
Or we could just turn those buttholes already in D.C. into Monetary and Power Eunuchs. Might not work on those soulless idiots but the procedure would be fun
Repealing the 17th Admendment is highly unlikely….The problem, as I’ve brought up numerous times for years is Lawyers….Almost half of Congress are Lawyers….Now think about that……A profession that represents about 1-1.5% of the population is almost 50% representive of Congress…..
Lawyers should be barred from holding Public Office in any capacity…..Un-elected Bureaucrat Lawyers are running the Country….Lawyers run the FBI/CIA and obviously the DOJ…..Now think Comey, Paige, McCabe, Rosenstein, Mueller, Clinesmith etc….All Lawyers, but people think of them as FBI not Lawyers……Susan Rice a major liar and fraudster is a Lawyer…..Biden and Harris are Lawyers….Hunter Biden is a Lawyer….I could go on and on but you get the point…..
Corrupt Lawyers, corrupt politician Lawyers and corrupt un-elected Bureaucrat Lawyers have virtually destroyed our Republic….
Repealing the 17th Admendment doesn’t have the same sting as a Bill ‘Barring Lawyers from holding Public Office’…
To your point Sundance, it is why the Speaker of the House appears for a photo op in Ukraine…it’s not because she is representing the people of San Francisco.
Start a federal gov audit. If wont fund fine just post budget spending online and announce a reward for anyone who finds waste redundancy or corruption that results in actual savings. Let the open source people get rich scouring the budget sheets while gutting the deep state bread and butter. Federal gov budget. The corruption will show with the digging open source will spend.
Excellent and, based on comments at CTH, a much needed one.
As to “Co-equal” branches, I would put the 17th at the TOP.
Imagine this scenario; A State legislator calls that States U.S. Senator, to discuss an important issue,..and the U.S. Senator tells his receptionist “tell him I am busy, will call back later…”
Now, imagine the same scenario, without the 17th amendment.
I BELEIEVE State legislatures not only appointed U.S. Senators, but had the authority to RECALL them.
Second, people always champion “term limits” for Congress, even though its NEVER going to happen.
REPEAL the amendment setting term limits for POTUS, to restore”co-equal: Congress and the Judiciary DO NOT have term limits,..Orban in Hungary just won reelection, so he will serve 12 years.
Congress, and the administrative State can largely ignore and undermine a POTUS, as “he’s ONLY going to be herea little while, WE are going to spend our whole careers here.
We SAY the administrative state is part of the EXECUTIVE, but as Sundance explains, its actually an extension of CONGRESS, and distorts the ‘balance of Power’ of the”co-equal” branches.
It is Congresses bastard child, created by, beholden to and protected by Congress.
WHO is your boss? Typically, it is the entity which can; FIRE you, call you on the carpet, demote you or not advance you, or conversely promote you, increase your salary or benefits.
So, WHO is the “Boss” of the administrative state, the “Executive branch” the buerocrats who administer the laws and regulations Congress writes?
NOT the POTUS, thats for sure.
One final note: if DJT were such a poor selector of managers, he would never have become a Billionaire; he didn’t personally manage every construction project, Hotel or Golf coarse, etc.
He found good PEOPLE, THATS how he made his fortune.
THANK you, Sundance.
Exactly 💯 💯
👉The DC Bureaucracy is indeed the, “bastard child”, of the Congress.👈
Oh, what an insipid, conceited, wasteful, brat of a “child” it is.
So the people who benefit from the 17th amendment (Senators and their lackeys) are the ones who have to push through the process to repeal it…..WE THE PEOPLE have a zero chance of that EVER happening —electing enough MAGA senators and house reps, unfortunately, will not happen. Too many of them get “sucked” into the system and line their pockets once they are part of the corrupt system.
Hmm…
“Repealing the 17th is a noble but quixotic goal. “
so,
We have to make decisions on the local level to change our cities.
Everybody should vote for the best candidates.
Sometimes we have terrible choices, but giving up is not a plan.
DJT was going to clean house during his second term and the cabal knew this. Even hoaxed a global pandemic to stop it.
^^^^ THIS ^^^^ is why Henry Kissinger wrote of the need for a post-covid ” PARALLEL ENTERPRISE ”
to maintain world ‘ order ‘ ( theirs ). — Wall St Journ. 4-3-20