103 Days – Where Are Rosenstein’s Scope Memos to Robert Mueller?…

On May 23rd, 2019, President Donald Trump gave U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr full authority to review and release all of the classified material hidden by the DOJ, FBI, State Department, CIA, FISA Court, and aggregate intelligence apparatus; 103 days ago.

It has been 103 days since President Trump empowered AG Bill Barr to release the original authorizing framework of the Mueller investigation which began on May 17, 2017. A Mueller investigation that concluded six months ago, and yet we are not allowed to know what the authorizing framework was?…. Nor the 2nd DOJ scope memo of August 2nd, 2017?… Nor the 3rd DOJ scope memo of October 20th, 2017?….

The released Weissmann/Mueller report showed there were two additional scope memos authorizing specific targeting of the Mueller probe.  The first scope memo was August 2nd, 2017, OUTLINED HERE, and is an important part of the puzzle that helps explain the corrupt original purpose of the special counsel. [Now Confirmed Here]

The second scope memo was issued by Rod Rosenstein to Robert Mueller on October 20th, 2017.  The transparent intent of the second scope memo was to provide Weissmann and Mueller with ammunition and authority to investigate specific targets, for specific purposes.  One of those targets was General Michael Flynn’s son, Michael Flynn Jr.

As you review the highlighted portion below, found on pages 12 and 13 of the Weissmann report, read slowly and fully absorb the intent; the corruption is blood-boiling:

This second scope memo allowed Weissmann and Mueller to target tangentially related persons and entities bringing in Michael Cohen, Richard Gates, Roger Stone and Michael Flynn Jr.  Additionally and strategically (you’ll see why), this memo established the authority to pursue “jointly undertaken activity“.

With Paul Manafort outlined as an investigative target in the original authorization and the first scope memo, the second scope memo authorizes expansion to his business partner Richard Gates and their joint businesses.   This memo also permits the investigation of Trump’s lawyer Michael Cohen and all of his interests; and in ultimate weasel sunlight, Rosenstein authorizes an investigation of his boss, AG Jeff Sessions.

Before getting to more targets, notice the underlined passage about starting with a lot of investigative material because the special counsel was picking up a Russian interference  investigation that had been ongoing for “nearly 10 months.”

I would also note that our CTH research indicates all of the illegally extracted FISA-702(16)(17) database search results would be part of this pre-existing investigative file available immediately to Weissmann and Mueller.  However, in order to use the search-query evidence, Weissmann and Mueller would need to backfill some alternate justification; or find another way to “rediscover” the preexisting results….. I digress

The four identified targets within the original July 2016 investigation, “Operation Crossfire Hurricane”, were George Papadopoulos, Michael Flynn, Paul Manafort and Carter Page. (See HPSCI report):

General Flynn was under investigation from the outset in mid-2016. The fraudulent FBI counterintelligence operation, established by CIA Director John Brennan, had Flynn as one of the early targets when Brennan handed the originating electronic communication “EC” to FBI Director James Comey.

The investigation of General Flynn never stopped throughout 2016 and led to the second investigative issue of his phone call with Russian Ambassador Kislyak in December 2016:

Back to the Page #12 October 20th Scope Memo:

The first redaction listed under “personal privacy” is unconfirmed; however, the second related redaction is a specific person, Michael Flynn Jr.

In combination with the October timing, the addition of Flynn Jr to the target list relates to the ongoing 2016/2017 investigation of his father, General Michael Flynn, for: (1) possible conspiracy with a foreign government; (2) unregistered lobbying; (3) materially false statements and omissions on 2017 FARA documents; and (4) lying to the FBI.

This October 20th, 2017, request from Weissmann and Mueller aligns with the time-frame were special counsel team lawyers Brandon L. Van Grack and Zainab N. Ahmad were prosecuting Michael Flynn and attempting to force him into a guilty plea

Getting Rosenstein to authorize adding Mike Flynn Jr. to the target list (scope memo) meant the special counsel could threaten General Flynn with the indictment of his son as a co-conspirator tied to the Turkish lobbying issue (which they did) if he doesn’t agree to a plea. Remember: “jointly undertaken activity“.

The October 20th, 2017, expanded scope memo authorized Mueller to start demanding records, phones, electronic devices and other evidence from Mike Flynn Jr, and provided the leverage Weissmann wanted.  After all, Mike Flynn Jr. had a four month old baby. 

The amount of twisted pressure from this corrupt team of prosecutors is sickening.  A month later, General Flynn was signing a plea agreement:

The IG Report on James Comey Memos Outlined the Fraud of Mueller Probe Origination.

All of this information backstops the 19-page filing from last week (full pdf below), where Flynn’s attorney Sidney Powell walked through the history of the DOJ, FBI and intelligence apparatus weaponization against Mr. Flynn and lays out the background behind everything known to have happened in 2016, 2017 through today.

From the corrupt DOJ lawyers who were working with Fusion-GPS and Chris Steele, including Mr. Weissmann, Mr. Van Grack and Ms. Zainab Ahmad; to the 2015/2016 FISA database search abuses; to the CIA and FBI operation against Flynn including Nellie Ohr; to the schemes behind the use of DOJ official Bruce Ohr; to the corrupt construct of the special counsels office selections; to the specifics within the malicious conspiracy outlined by hiding FBI interview notes of Mike Flynn,… all of it…. is bolstered by the IG Horowitz report on how the FBI “small group” was manipulating the media, and hiding Comey memos.

Read:

.

The IG Report on Comey’s memos clearly shows former DAG Rod Rosenstein working with the corrupt FBI and DOJ small group toward an objective of appointing their special counsel selection, Robert Mueller.

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424 Responses to 103 Days – Where Are Rosenstein’s Scope Memos to Robert Mueller?…

  1. Rick says:

    Knowing Bob Barr is a ‘by the book’ AG, does anyone think he’s going to release them to us now, knowing they will be coming in the form of one of the current investigations?

    Liked by 5 people

    • jackphatz says:

      At this point, we have no reasonable assurance that we will see the outcome of these current investigations.

      Liked by 7 people

    • Betty says:

      Oh please stop. just stop. AG Barr is taking care of his cronies to the Detriment of Our Precious Republic.
      You could have written Jeff Sessions is a “by the book” AG.

      Justice is always just over the next hill.
      This nasty business should have been brought to a screeching halt in February 2017. All the unrest in our Country can be lain at the feet of Sessions and Barr who neglect their SACRED DUTY in favor of protecting their cronies. All the virtue-signaling social media censorship, all the Democrat instigated violence against We The People, every two-bit hollywood wannabe who dares to spout obscenities against We The People and our President – even idiots who pick up a gun and go off to shoot people.

      We need to find a way to check (archaic : reprimand, rebuke one that arrests, limits, or restrains) the Federal Government.
      We must, there is no one else to do this job, our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.

      Liked by 4 people

      • vladdy says:

        Agree. May or may not be popular to say, but….c’mon, this is The NeverEnding Story. They’ve partly succeeded in making over half the country into a kind of dhimmi status with them deciding what we can and can’t do….every “delay” (ha) has helped the rhetoric and injustice to increase. How nice for the swamp.

        If I were the parent of one of those 7 girls raped by illegals in MD this month, I’d be even madder. They’ve kept the people’s will from being done, and at the same time, heated up the rhetoric so fewer people will be inclined to support what the election of 2016 was all about.

        Liked by 3 people

    • farrier105 says:

      If Barr was “by the book” as an Attorney General, he would have recused himself from Iran-Contra instead of pressing for the pardons that torpedoed the investigation. Barr was involved in Iran-Contra when he was in the CIA. By wrecking the investigation, he protected the CIA, and himself, from further scrutiny. It is a mystery why no one brought this up at confirmation, or in the aftermath of the end of the Mueller investigation when only dumb charges were flung at Barr.

      Makes me feel real optimistic about everything. “Treepers” should always be optimistic even when the Establishment takes another big dump on America. After all, maybe we can get them “next time,” or just concentrate on the election. “All the more reason to VOTE REPUBLICAN!”

      Liked by 2 people

  2. thedoc00 says:

    What you are looking for with respect to scope changes to Mueller will not be in those memos. In his filing to federal court hearing the Manafort Case, in response to a motion by Manafort, Mueller clearly stated he had received numerous “verbal secret orders” that expanded his scope from Rosenstein. The judge bought it and now everybody has amnesia and cannot remember what exactly was said by Rosenstein, even Rosenstein will use the Clinton I don’t remember defense.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Dee Paul Deje says:

      Everybody will be cleared under the Comey/Clinton “no reasonable prosecutor” scam. It seems there are no reasonable prosecutors left.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Beau Geste says:

        What do you expect from the DuJ (Department of Unequal Justice, rhymes with “stooge”).

        It is their official job to protect the “in crowd” and persecute deplorables.

        Liked by 3 people

    • jiminCO says:

      I generally avoid any “but they did it too” arguments, but:

      1. If the Federal Govt. police agencies can, by memo or verbal charge, expand inquiry because of special sensitivity, then why on God’s earth can’t we seem to dig deeper into the Clinton Global Initiative’s connections/graft to foreign governments, into Uranium One transactions, and Bill Clinton’s China Secrets sale?
      2. We now live in a electronic age not known during Watergate. But, this smells like a ciber version of insider “Plumber work” (Comey, Brennan, Clapper, Rice, Powers and —yes—Obama boldly breaking federal law and, with the smug Obama-like despotic crime underway. Really, Barry: “this is not what America is about”, is it?
      3. We observing citizens get a deep pain in the gut that our federal government police have become a cabal of shallow “boy scouts protecting America” while acting as a clearly rotten socialist operation to take down the most successful and nearest-to-perfect system of governance. All because they don’t like Trump’s bombastic nature.

      Liked by 5 people

    • dallasdan says:

      Undocumented “verbal secret orders” are the best kind when co-conspirators are engaged in criminal activities that may be exposed.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. Judiciary says:

    People don’t talk much about Weissmann anymore yet I’m certain he was the criminal behind Mueller. Hillary was the criminal behind Fusion GPS. Obama (or whoever pulled his strings) the criminal behind everyone.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Baron Ash says:

      Weissmann is an attack dog.
      As was Mueller.
      And Rosenstein.
      Whose?
      Well, clearly the CIA Director was in the mix, big-time.
      But he’s just an attack dog too.
      Obama?
      Who (or what group/network) was behind his meteoric rise to the Presidency?

      These are all players in the ‘Deep State,’ the ‘Administrative State’ and so forth. Probably it’s less of a clearly organised structure with any over-arching hierarchy, but clearly there are key areas which, although they are portrayed as being different and independent, are clearly just different arms of the same octupus-like beast, namely:
      Intel Community
      Pedophile/Blackmail/Sex slavery rings (subset of above)
      Black Ops, drug growing and distribution (subset of above)
      Military Industrial Complex (the above plus hard military – Army, Navy, Air Force, Special Forces, Space Force and so forth)
      Congress
      Executive (including all the IC people in the ‘Embassies’)
      State Senates (largely unrecognised, but most of them are controlled by one single lobbying group which controls all of their agendas with key resolutions nationwide)
      Media (print, film, broadcast, internet, radio)
      Large Corporations (industrial production, chemical, agro production and distribution, IT, etc.)
      Social Media (subset of both Large Corporations and MIC such as ‘Alphabet-Google’)
      Education (provides most of the middle and upper level management of all the others in the list)
      Science of which a subset is Medicine (both of which riddled with dominating inputs from most of these others and all too little is authentic, high quality caring of well-being and health)

      (and perhaps above all, primus inter pares:)
      the BIS network whose national rep in the US is the (not Federal) Federal Reserve credit cartel.

      They are presented as being different; some are private sector, some public. But really they are part of an inter-related matrix of command and control. Many of the employees therein are naive, decent citizens, but no doubt the ones at the top are aware of the con game they are playing at the expense of the integrity of the nation states in which they function, and are further fully aware that if they weren’t controlling the levers of power, they might well be all exposed for the criminals they are.

      Liked by 5 people

  4. Ray Runge says:

    Thank You to Sundance for once agin positing a question in regard the larger picture while providing the granular material that so under girds the question.

    The question of “Where are the declassified scope memos?, is a fair and salient question, A Hallmark question for the serious observer of SpyGate on through the continues attempted coup.

    Barr’s activity has provided no sunlight for Joe citizen. That is of note to be quite odious. AND, worse yet, no one has been brought forth to answer for his / Her deeds before a court of law. As the top of the heap justice rendering body refuses to act this is not about Barr permitting the Swamp creatures to wiggle back into a sea cave.

    This is about citizens respect for our government. This is about citizens belief and reality that our actions will be judged by a set of lows that apply to every one.

    As we continue to monitor the unsatisfying process, Hallmarks are absolutely helpful. Questions about specific occurrences, or lack there of. Events that will illuminate progress in the investigation and a road to justice or Events that display any attempt at justice is an ongoing sham. Vigilance remains our friend.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Murray Smith says:

      it might be about running the clock out, post 2020 if they can get Biden in all of this will disappear along with Trumps economic ploicies, after all Biden is mixed up in this too, if they cant get Trump out then it will be just old news, doesn’t look good for America either way

      Liked by 1 person

  5. lolli says:

    I have been rereading Sundance’s archived articles on Barr. Good reminders..

    If anyone missed these articles just go to the search bar that says “choose topic” and you can read on anything Sundance has written.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Ray says:

    That indeed is the problem. Is Barr getting to the bottom to figure out how to gloss it over and let the perpetrators off or is he trying to build a case based on evidence to give them their day in court?

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Bogeyfree says:

    I am clearly in the camp that thinks the priority from Barr, Horowitz and Wray is to preserve the institutions and act only on policy reforms to ensure this never happens again.

    The evidence to date IMO is no declassification after 103 days, no indictments after numerous referrals and Wray still in place so my question to the trust the plan folks is:

    How long do you wait?

    We should have another IG Report on FISA abuse coming in 30-45 days and I ask the question, what if in that report it states their was no illegal activity but only political antics, policy violations and bad judgement issues?

    Will that then be enough to accept that this is a sweeper operation once and for all??

    If your answer is still no, then what happens if come the end of Oct or Nov and still no declass and no indictments, will that change your viewpoint?

    I think it is fair to ask maybe delegating declass to Barr was a means to get PT off the hook from his bold, get tough, Aug 2018 declass orders as he now gets to say it is up to Barr to Judge.

    Personally I think PT has been convinced that exposing the plot which included foreign governments would damage relationships with friendly countries and cripple the FBI/CIA future surveillance ability and he has gone along with it but needed an exit strategy which just so happened to be the delegation of total authority to AG Barr.

    Either way, trust the plan or sweeper operation, IMO the one thing MAGA supporters should do now is take over all of PT’s rallies for at least a 30 minute continuous chant, voicing their disappointment in no declass to date and their disgust with a clear 2 tier justice system.

    IMO his rallies ARE the best way to be heard loud and clear.

    Liked by 1 person

    • tommylotto says:

      I am definitely in the “wake me when there are indictments” camp. However, I am willing to give Barr the benefit of the doubt until about 30 days after the issuance of the Horowitz report on FISA abuse. I do not agree that the criminal investigation should have taken a back seat to the internal IG investigation, but I am willing to say sure, why not. The declassifications are being held up until after Horowitz’s report. Maybe the thinking is that after the people read the report with the accompanying criminal referrals, the public will better understand when Barr and Durham start making arrests. I do not know if that is going to happen, obviously. We are all speculating. However, I think it is premature to already write off Barr as a deep state cleaner.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Sherri Young says:

        I just finished going back and listening to this Bill Barr interview inside this post. It was well worth my time.

        https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/05/31/ag-william-barr-on-doj-fbi-conduct-in-2016-things-are-just-not-jiving-full-interview-and-transcript/

        The OIG at DOJ is working on the spying via FISA abuse in Carter Page’s case. Durham’s office will be handling any referrals for prosecution that may come out of that review in addition to any cases that may arise from their own “review”. “Predicate” seems to be Barr’s sticking point that was unsatisfied at the time of that interview.

        What I had forgotten was the part about Huber’s efforts. Apparently, Huber had been stalled out while waiting on referrals from Horowitz’s office. Eventually, Durham’s office was tasked with that work along with the larger 2016 Spygate review/investigation. In the meantime, Huber’s efforts were redirected toward investigating Clinton issues. I had missed the remark that Huber’s investigation was essentially complete.

        That was three months ago. There was no good enough reason for Barr to have made that comment unless legal action would be forthcoming. It could be that the Huber efforts intersect with the OIG’s efforts and Durham’s with public corruption prosecution of FBI/DOJ elements.

        We’ll see.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Sugarhillhardrock says:

      Bogey,
      Great suggestion about chants at rallies.

      I believe the AG is waiting on the OIG FISA release. My reason is that it is a review of the predicate for the reverse engineered spy operation. Once that reasoning is destroyed and the nature of the coverup is laid bare, the rest of the illegality can be unraveled publically.

      Those government FBI and DOJ agents that signed off on FISA will be fully exposed criminally at that point. That exposure will likely also reveal who has turned state’s evidence or who will need to in order to work a deal to reduce sentence.

      The arrest avalanche can then begin, with AG Barr effectively insulated from media and Dem screams of partisan indictment.

      Were I Comey, McCabe, or Strozk/Page I would be nervous about my future.
      My bet is that several of the players have already spilled on others and likely told Durham the facts. I’d strongly suspect Ohr is a spiller and that he is not alone.

      My guess: Barr is positioning the biggest American criminal conspiracy story for release in such a way that it can’t be spun effectively or ignored by the media. I just don’t believe Durham is window dressing or a potted plant.

      I continue to expect AG Barr is about to settle all “Family Business”.

      I sure pray so. If he Bondo’s it, there is going to be real trouble.

      Liked by 2 people

    • mark says:

      Bogeyfree, great idea about shouting long and loud at President Trumps rallies. But I sat down the other night after thinking about your post on how a group of people could use an unverified dossier, 5 eyes, call 2 FBI/CIA agents Russian spies, withhold info from the FISA court, ect. ect and the DOJ and Bill Barr can’t find a crime in all of this? What I came up with is that, that little nugget of info you posted 2 days ago, in that order, needs to shouted, posted, downloadable and printable for all to hear and read. Sara Carter reads this site so does Sidney Powell ( all though she’s pretty busy with Mike Flynn and boxing the judge into a corner) this info in that order needs to get out there. Sure the Treepers could add the links along side of each one of your points so that the proof is right there. What you said was Spygate in a nut shell, small and concise and of course says to the DOJ and Barr, what are you gonna do about this?

      Like

  8. Ned Zeppelin says:

    I believe DJT is deferring to Barr & Co. at this point, and is not personally involved for a whole host of reasons, not the least of which is his need to stay above and out of the proceedings so as to avoid the “politically motivated” charge if and when indictments appear, and also I think he knows this is a spider’s web of tripwires as far as making the cases once brought actually yield the desired result. I’d advise we wait for Horowitz and his FISA report.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Beau Geste says:

      Ned,
      If President Trump published pictures of “bugs” planted in the Whitehouse walls (by the DuJ) when he arrived, would that be revealing “sources and methods” which would imperil our national security?

      Liked by 2 people

      • Ned Zeppelin says:

        Driving me crazy too Beau, just think reality here is that if there are to be real, substantive criminal charges, and I think that conspiracy/RICO has to be at the heart f this, that explains the total silence. Evidence comes out at trial, not in the news.

        Liked by 2 people

  9. meadowlarkspring says:

    I can’t imagine that anyone at the DOJ wants the Rosenstein (DOJ) scope memos public ever. The scope memos are intertwined with Comey’s unsupervised power to the DOJ’s shame.

    The Special Counsel report uses Comey’s contact with the president as a basis for their obstruction analysis, but doesn’t mention whether the DOJ leaders were shown and knowledgable of Comey’s memos. Rather, according to Comey’s testimony to the House Oversight (12/7/2018) he was waiting until the DOJ came up with their staffing plan for the case to share the memos with the DOJ leaders. Comey shouldn’t have minded that the new staffing plan was to fire him.

    You just can’t have a fourth branch of government running around unchecked. We have problems enough with the three we have.

    Mueller report Volume II, pg. 53

    -snip-

    According to McGahn and Donaldson, the President had expressed frustration with Comey before his March 20 testimony, and the testimony made matters worse. The President had previously criticized Comey for too frequently making headlines and for not attending intelligence briefings at the White House, and the President suspected Comey of leaking certain information to the media.
    McGahn said the President thought Comey was acting like “his own branch of government. ”

    -snip-

    An interesting parallel reading to Mueller Report Volume II (sans the analysis and footnotes) is the June 27, 2017, letter from attorney Marc Kasowitz delivered by hand to special counsel Robert Mueller released by the associated press.

    Text of Trump team memos to special counsel assailing Comey
    By The Associated Press
    July 7, 2018

    https://apnews.com/a63dd6001a0c4796a23a3380337a8715

    Like

    • Beau Geste says:

      Clearly outlines the unbridled openly-arrogant corruption of the FBI/DuJ (Department of Unequal Justice, rhymes with “stooge”)

      Like

  10. Beau Geste says:

    Lindsay Graham has formally requested AB Barr to release records:
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/graham-ag-declassify-documents-related-to-fbi-surveillance-during-trump-russia-probe

    This suggests that Graham asked him in a personal meeting, and Barr refused. Not a good sign…

    Like

    • ristvan says:

      If your interpretation is correct, it a good sign, not a bad one.

      Miss Lindsey’s playing politics. If there were to be no criminal prosecutions, Barr could just hand Linsey the stuff and wash his own hands.

      BUT if there are criminal prosecutions coming, that stuff is crucual evidence and should NOT be in the public domain. Defense attorneys will argue political prosecution AND jury contamination if the declass stuff leaks into the public domain. Barr knows this and will NOT give them those openings.

      Liked by 4 people

      • I like your thinking on this one!

        Like

      • farrier105 says:

        What about the Supreme Court ruling in US v. Nixon in the Watergate case? Not only was the White House commanded, by a unanimous vote (Rehnquist recused) of 8-0 that the SMOKING GUN TAPE be given to the prosecution, but the tape and transcript should be MADE PUBLIC, which it was. The thing doomed Nixon to certain impeachment and removal from office, after which he could be indicted, yet this key piece of evidence was ordered, by the Supreme Court, made available to the public.

        Talk about “Defense attorneys will argue political prosecution AND jury contamination if the declass stuff leaks into the public domain”!

        This kind of prosecutorial etiquette was rarely practiced by Mr. Mueller. Why we had pretrial publicity against the defendant as often as any could be ginned up. We had the early morning raid to serve a search warrant on a white collar perpetrator that included the videotaping of his expense custom-made suits in his bedroom closet. The media was eating up Mueller leaks left and right, reporting them breathlessly. All could be defined as “jury contamination.”

        Then there was the Roger Stone raid. The nonsense that CNN wasn’t tipped was just that. FBI routinely tips about search warrants. If you search your memory, you might have seen some of them on the local television if you weren’t zoning out. Typically, agents are told if they want to work undercover sometime, don’t look at the camera. How is THAT for “jury contamination?”

        Would it do any good for anyone to bring up freaking NANCY GRACE?

        Jury contamination? REALLY?

        Like

  11. ristvan says:

    I disagree with many of the premises of thread and comments. There are two different perspectives.

    1. The SC scope memos are at this point largely irrelevant, because the Mueller investigations produced nothing against PDJT. Sidney Powell will show how dirty Weissmann was concerning Flynn, and get him off. Manafort in re Ukraine and Cohen in re personal business dealings were in my opinion properly convicted collateral damage. Manafort defense pleaded scope and lost.

    2. As explained several times, PDJT has said many times ‘Never Again’.
    That means prison time for the perps.
    We know AG Barr is his chosen means, because of the personal declass authority. Innorder not to risk tainted juries, that means for grand jury and then jury use, NOT us.
    Barr has told congress there was spying on the Trump campaign and then PDJT. The only question is whether it was adequately predicated. He is perusing two avenues:
    -IG Horowitz on FISA abuse. That snares at least Comey and Yates.
    -US Attorney Durham on EC predicate. That snares at least Brennan and Clapper.

    And to be done properly nothing should leak until ready for Barr to unveil it fully formed for final criminal prosecution and conviction. Barr shut down Mueller and the ongoing effort to entice PDJT into obstruction, the Roger Stone raid being worst. I do not doubt he has got part two ‘never again’.

    Liked by 5 people

    • MACAULAY says:

      Do you think the excuse of:
      “We may never be able to convict members of the Obama/Clinton Cabal—like Comey, Clapper, Brennan, McCabe, in a Washington, D. C. Court”
      ….is a valid excuse for not indicting them when such evidence as we have been allowe to see indicates a seditious conspiracy by the political party in power to use governmental force against the party out of power?

      Like

      • ristvan says:

        No. The problem just means the indictments must be bulletproof and severe, either ‘jury nullification’ “proof” (think OJ in court of public opinion in an election year) or inducing plea bargains from at least some perps.

        Like

        • farrier105 says:

          How much more bullet proof would an indictment of Jackass Comey had been if THIS statute had been the one cited:

          18 U.S. Code § 1924. Unauthorized removal and retention of classified documents or material

          (a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both.

          (b) For purposes of this section, the provision of documents and materials to the Congress shall not constitute an offense under subsection (a).

          (c) In this section, the term “classified information of the United States” means information originated, owned, or possessed by the United States Government concerning the national defense or foreign relations of the United States that has been determined pursuant to law or Executive order to require protection against unauthorized disclosure in the interests of national security.

          Not only would Comey had no defense whatsoever for a charge under this statute, but neither would HILLARY CLINTON had even a micrometer of a defense for what she did in causing Sensitive Compartmented Information be removed from a SCIF and placed in an location not authorized by the State Department. No, we use the Espionage Act instead which can be bent and shaped like freaking Gumby with “intent” arguments. Hillary would knitting in some Club Fed somewhere, totally removed from public life with no chance at a security clearance. The Jimster would be in a similar situation. There’s no way either of them could have gotten out of the charges as they were clearly guilty.

          Like

          • ristvan says:

            Your problem is the following, summarized on a previous thread as to why comey was not charged with leaking.. What was leaked was not then classified, and what was then classified was not leaked. These perps are NOT stupid, just caught out exposed by arrogace.

            Like

            • farrier105 says:

              18 USC 1924 has absolutely NOTHING to do with leaking. It has to do with unauthorized RETENTION and STORAGE LOCATION of classified documents about foreign relations and national security. You must apply the facts of the case to the elements of the statute.

              Like

    • albertus magnus says:

      You are an attorney, I am not. I assume you know LOTS more than me about the law.

      However, in my estimation, the issue here is NOT what the law is, but rather is there the will within the Administration to bring the culprits to justice.

      Please give any evidence of any crime that has been charged, any crime that has been exposed, or any criminal who acts in the least bit worried.

      PDJT went on 60 Minutes in November 2016 and stated clearly and without hesitation he did NOT want the Clintons et all prosecuted. I suggest people take him at his word.

      Finally, as important as it may be for legal minds to want to send a message of prosecutions to stop this from every happening again, that is NOT the mindset of a top executive. A top executive counts the risks and costs of every significant decision he or she makes. I believe we have been told OVER AND OVER again that PDJT wants the mess cleaned up going forward and prefers to just move forward.

      There is no evidence to the contrary of what I am seeing and there is ZERO evidence of any prosecutions coming exept wishing, hoping and dreaming as the Dionne Warwick song stated.

      Just saying.

      Like

      • Brian in CA4 says:

        Nice try…but your reference to the 60 Minutes interview is misleading in trying to exonerate the entire conspiracy (et al). President Trump didn’t say that. He was referring to Hillary Clinton and her illegal handling of classified documents specifically. President Trump and we have learned much since Nov 2016 and the scope of known treachery committed by Hillary, Obama, Brennan, Lynch, …………………………..is much greater now.

        I also doubt that President Trump made a deal with the “deep state” in exchange for the furtherance of our MAGA agenda. How could PT guarantee the execution of that deal and his re-election in 2020 to cement it? He couldn’t…..so it didn’t happen in my opinion.

        Liked by 1 person

        • albertus magnus says:

          The proof will be in the pudding. I NEVER said PDJT made a deal with anyone. I am saying he is not pursuing or pushing for accountability for past crimes for anyone and is only focused on fixing the problems going forward. My theory is supported by what we see and dont see. Your theory is based on wet dreams and hopes.

          If PDJT doesnt push for charges, AINT NOBODY ELSE going to do it either.

          Like

          • Brian in CA4 says:

            Agreed…that is also my observation. I am also impatient because it appears that the deep state is running out the clock. However, a proper prosecution of the coup conspiracy perps (if happening…please God) wouldn’t involve much, if any, public exposure prior to indictments.

            Like

          • Donzo says:

            Any structural changes rather than a perp walk that would prevent the DS from ever engagng in a coup again would not be the result of a whitewash, which is what would be any resolution of Spygate short of indicting and convicting the small group and their immediate superiors at a minimum. Trump cannot do only a fix going forward because it would.not deliver the political capital to rewrite laws governing the intelligence agencies and the DOJ. it would be perceived as a win for the DS. Legislation tabled.

            Like

      • Battleship Wisconsin says:

        Unless indictments are forthcoming, Spygate will never be exposed for what it was and still is.

        Speaking only for myself, I’ve come to believe that the strategy of pursuing indictments against the top dogs of the conspiracy as the first serious legal action to be taken against any of the Spygate perps has much to recommend it.

        It has long been my preference that the House of Representatives hold a series of contentious hearings on the House floor on impeaching the president, with the result that the whole saga of Spygate is brought to light in a way which the mainstream media can’t ignore.

        Unfortunately, Nancy Pelosi understands the consequences of impeaching President Trump and won’t allow a floor debate on specific articles of impeachment to happen. Wht? Because if articles of impeachment are ever debated on the floor of the House, let alone actually passed, the Democrats lose their fight with Donald Trump right then and there.

        Indicting the top dogs, Comey, Yates, Brennan, and Clapper, gives the most bang for the buck in terms of quickly bringing the abuses of Spygate out into the open for the least amount of effort expended. If senior Obama administration officials are indicted, the mainstream media certainly can’t ignore it, and the voters can’t ignore it either.

        If any or all of the four top dogs were to be indicted, more likely the defendants and their lawyers would choose to go to trial rather than cop a plea. Four convictions would be the best outcome, but in a Washington DC courtroom, convictions cannot be guaranteed regardless of how solid the evidence or how well the prosecution’s cases are being formulated and presented.

        Even if the prosecutors conclude that jury trials would result in hung juries or even in acquittals, justice demands that criminal charges be brought. Just go do it and then see what happens.

        Like

    • Battleship Wisconsin says:

      Ristvan said: “Barr has told congress there was spying on the Trump campaign and then PDJT. The only question is whether it was adequately predicated. He is pursuing two avenues:
      -IG Horowitz on FISA abuse. That snares at least Comey and Yates.
      -US Attorney Durham on EC predicate. That snares at least Brennan and Clapper.”

      Ristvan, you have written in past commentaries that Comey and Yates could be charged under 18 USC 1018 with knowingly making false attestations on the FISA warrants.

      U.S. Code 18 USC 1018, Official certificates or writings, reads as follows:

      Whoever, being a public officer or other person authorized by any law of the United States to make or give a certificate or other writing, knowingly makes and delivers as true such a certificate or writing, containing any statement which he knows to be false, in a case where the punishment thereof is not elsewhere expressly provided by law, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

      I presume the same statute would apply to Brennan and to Clapper and would concern what was written in the EC, would it not? In the case of those two officials, would other criminal statutes also come into play?

      Like

      • ristvan says:

        Possibly. I don’t know what official documents they signed.
        But there are, as Devin Nunes has pointed out, other means of getting Brennan and Clapper on conspiracy. For example, 18USC§241 and §242, respectively conspiracy against rights and deprivation of rights under color of law. Think the attempted Papadop entrapment.
        Dirham will probably make the most ironclad charges. But IMO these are easy to prove based on what Papadop has said and written in his book.

        Like

    • Pew-Anon says:

      So in your professional legal opinion, the targeted prosecution of Trump campaign officials for stale crimes that had nothing to do with the campaign and were years removed in context, for the manifest purpose of coercing them to falsely testify against the President, constitutes “properly convicted collateral damage.”?

      This is why I don’t implicitly trust to the perspective of supposed experts. They tend, at times, to be myopic, too focused on the granular details of their expertise to notice the systemic issues that are obvious to observant, unencumbered laity.

      Nobody trusts the corporate, mainstream news apparatus anymore, and for good reason. We are, likewise, heading down that same path with our legal system, which is openly showing, more and more, signs of the same corporate corruption that compromises the MSM. Perhaps the Manafort and Cohen convictions were technically “proper” in the insular environment of their respective trials, divorced from any broader context. But it is precisely that broader context where they lose all propriety. The scope memos would likely have proven that, which only serves to cast doubt on the decision to deny that defense.

      So I must respectfully disagree. There was nothing “proper” about the Manafort and Cohen prosecutions above the level of granular, technical detail.

      Like

      • ristvan says:

        You break the law, the law finds out, you get convicted. I see this quite differently than you. You see vendetta politics, I see long standing DoJ regulations published in the Federal Register decades ago that Mueller, once appointed, was free to use.

        A standard part 2 of any special counsel scope memo specifically required by 28CFR§600.4 is 4(b), which says, paraphrased, ‘automatic expansion if new matters come to light pursuant to 4(a)’. 4(a) was Trump/Russia collusion. Manafort was his campaign manager for the convention. Manafort had previous ties to Yanukovitch, the deposed Russian supported former head of Ukraine. So Manafort Ukraine 4(b) is a natural, logical extension of 4(a). Ditto Cohen, trying to freelance a Trump Moscow Tower during the campaign after PDJT dropped the matter per Don Jr. congressional testimony.
        Please look up the exact standard §600.4(b) language for your own edification.

        Cohen pled guilty, Manafort was jury convicted on some but not all charges. Both pursuant to longstanding 28CFR§600.4(b).

        BTW, there is also a §600.4(c). It covers investigation only related matters like obstruction of justice concerning §600.4(a). That was the dirty angle Weissmann tried to play but failed thanks to Barr.

        Liked by 1 person

        • LafnH20 says:

          TY, ristvan!

          Like

        • Pew-Anon says:

          …I see this quite differently than you. You see vendetta politics, I see long standing DoJ regulations published in the Federal Register decades ago that Mueller, once appointed, was free to use.

          This essentially validates my point. I have no reason to doubt the granular accuracy of your response. But it is just exactly that: granularity. And it misses the larger point, which is that there is something fundamentally wrong with our legal system if, in your professional opinion, this is how our legal system is supposed to properly function.

          To illustrate, I will stipulate to all the details of your analysis. (Again, I have no reason not to.) So why, then, were neither Manafort nor Cohen prosecuted years ago for these actions which you correctly point out were, technically, crimes? It’s not like the evidence was not readily available to any prosecutor all along. In other words, no need for a special prosecutor to find any of this out. And it’s also not like the DoJ did not already know all about this evidence. (No one can tell me they didn’t know. It all came out too conveniently clean and quick.) So why did they wait to prosecute until the time of maximum political leverage? And this is to say nothing of the fact that neither of their convictions had anything directly to do with Russian election meddling, as it pertained to the Trump campaign. They were tangential at best, in the most academic of ways, a “logical extension” as you put it.

          This is not to single you out. I am not an academic but I read academic literature in other areas and this myopia I mentioned is a common phenomenon. Academics are, by definition, great thinkers within their own fields expertise, but they tend not be great thinkers on the level of integrating their field of expertise into the grander scale of things. This is how, in my opinion, you get western medical researchers who travel to China to successfully create the first human/monkey chimera. Was there anything wrong on a purely “technical” level with their experiment? Obviously not, because they succeeded. But it doesn’t take a PhD to discern what is wrong with this on a grand scale, outside their insular, academic environment. It is also how you get the Andrew Weissman’s of the legal profession, who would no doubt completely agree with your analysis.

          Look, I appreciate you pointing out the legality of what has transpired. I don’t dispute that. To me that just reinforces the insidiousness of it all. I just need to hear from you the additional caveat that you don’t necessarily endorse the general principle of how the legal system was used here, higher and above the level of granularity. You seem to approach that in your final sentence above.

          Like

          • ristvan says:

            Late return , just for the record. My big picture not purely legal opinions:
            1. RR should never have appointed a SC since Strzok already said in a text message there was no there there after Crossfire Hurricane; let alone appoint a conflicted Mueller.
            2. The Manafort/Ukraine stuff had previously been investigated and prosecution declined as a sketchy weak case. There clearly is a Weissmann antiTrump vendetta aspect to his later prosecution and conviction in DC by SC.
            3. The Roger Stone raid, with CNN tipped off, proves how outrageous the whole §600.4(C) obstruction entrapment attempt was under Mueller, led by Weissmann. Sidney Powell will hopefully have an impact there.
            4. I have been consistently correcting Eeyores here about Barr and end outcome. The main preps Will be indicted and convicted for Spygate. But thatbhas ro be very carefully done, and therefore takes time. Barr is the means via delegation of declass by PDJT to him personally. But is for grand jury indictments and then jury trials, not for public consumption.

            Like

    • farrier105 says:

      The real reason for any secrecy here with any declassified documents would be the existence of a GRAND JURY, which would make them Rule 6E material. This has nothing to do with jury contamination. Up to the handing down of a True Bill of Indictment, all of the stuff is secret. After indictment, it ALL COMES OUT PRE-TRIAL, which means potential jurors hear about it and see it on television, read about it in the newspapers,etc.

      Do you know for sure there is a grand jury involved with what Durham is doing? Well, that is the only reason they would be kept secret, or need to be kept secret.

      Like

    • farrier105 says:

      You are implying here that the issue of “tainted juries” extends beyond the grand jury handing down the True Bill of Indictment and into the PUBLIC TRIAL itself. It is like you are advancing secret criminal trials, which you know, as an attorney, do not exist. The evidence becomes public when the indictment is made public and arrest and search warrants served, and where the media is often there to film the arrest and search proceedings, “tainting the jury.”

      We don’t have secret trials in the United States. This isn’t a totalitarian police state yet. We may not have TV cameras in the courtroom, but we have a gallery of reporters, don’t we?

      Now, what do we make of the INSPECTOR GENERAL’S REPORT being released to the public when CRIMINAL REFERRALS WERE MADE BY THE SAME INSPECTOR GENERAL? According to your logic, all that is in the Inspector General’s report is now INADMISSIBLE in court since it was made public and could “taint the juries.” Didn’t any of the attorneys in the Justice Department understand this? Why did the IG’s report get released to the public, or its existence not be treated as something that cannot be seen, read, or discussed outside of a SENSITIVE COMPARTMENTED INFORMATION FACILITY (SCIF)?

      What are we to make of the Mueller Report that unmasked uncharged individuals, describing in detail why they were handled like suspects? Is that all right now that there will be no trials and therefore no jury to protect from becoming “tainted?” Is Trump now free from any future prosecution in front of a jury because of all the PRETRIAL LEAKS by Mueller’s team? Could Trump’s attorneys demand charges be dropped because there isn’t a jury in the Milky Way that hasn’t heard about how evil Trump is?

      Like

      • farrier105 says:

        Let’s try a basic principal. Rule 6E was created to protect a citizen being probed by the grand jury in case Probable Cause is not achieved in the investigation. The secrecy protects a citizen from a false charge that cannot be brought to public trial until a True Bill of Indictment is handed down by the grand jury. A True Bill of Indictment IS probable cause. Rule 6E has nothing to do with protecting juries from being “tainted” in public trials after probable cause has been established by a True Bill of Indictment.

        Upon Probable Cause being reached, the charges against the defendant are made public, the media begins covering the trial with reporters in the courtroom and reading trial transcripts, etc. One of the purposes of this kind of transparency is the pursuit of truth. By providing the public the information, this is one last chance for those who have knowledge to come forward with what they know. If trials are conducted in secret, with the exception of the jury, there is no way for anyone in the public who might have vital evidence for either side, to come forward.

        Like

  12. 335blues says:

    Think if the democrat party caught republicans
    in a coup attempt they would fail to prisecute?

    Like

  13. 335blues says:

    Think if the democrat party caught republicans
    in a coup attempt they would fail to prisecute?

    Like

  14. amanda4321 says:

    Barr is deep state. He was CIA (once CIA, always CIA) and he has a long history of coverups for the intelligence agencies/deep state. They are probably trying to drag this out and hoping that they will steal the election from Trump.

    https://www.globalresearch.ca/ciabushiran-contra-covert-operative-fixer-william-barr-nominated-attorney-general/5662609

    “As George H.W. Bush’s most notorious insider, and as the AG from 1991 to 1993, Barr wreaked havoc, flaunted the rule of law, and proved himself to be one of the CIA/Deep State’s greatest and most ruthless champions and protectors:

    Barr stonewalled and destroyed the Church Committee investigations into CIA abuses.

    Barr stonewalled and stopped inquiries in the CIA bombing assassination of Chilean opposition leader Orlando Letelier.

    Barr was a key player in the Iran-Contra operation, if not the most important member of the apparatus, simultaneously managing the operation while also “fixing” the legal end, ensuring that all of the operatives could do their jobs without fear of exposure or arrest.

    In his attorney general confirmation, Barr vowed to “attack criminal organizations”, drug smugglers and money launderers. It was all hot air: as AG, Barr would preserve, protect, cover up, and nurture the apparatus that he helped create, and use Justice Department power to escape punishment.

    Barr stonewalled and stopped investigations into all Bush/Clinton and CIA crimes, including BCCI and BNL CIA drug banking, the theft of Inslaw/PROMIS software, and all crimes of state committed by Bush
    (more at the link)

    Like

  15. It’s obvious that the “perps,” having used the Department of Justice and the intelligence surveillance community as an instrument of their attempted coup, do not now believe that the same Department will actually find them guilty of anything. They’re confident that “the fix is in,” thanks to co-conspirators like Liu. But the wild card, of course, is Donald Trump himself, and his delegate, William Barr.

    The burden remains on these departments, in the eyes of an understandably disbelieving public, to demonstrate timely that someone will actually go to jail, by due process of law. History to date suggests otherwise: the “Deep State” has gone unchallenged for decades. Will this be the time? Will this become part of Trump’s legacy? Right now there is “suspension of disbelief.” But, they’d better deliver.

    Liked by 2 people

  16. Schmitty says:

    Until our Heavenly Father gets involved on a large scale ain’t no justice gonna be dealt.

    Disciples of our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ – keep watching & praying.

    Like

  17. Brian says:

    And nobody seems to care.

    Like

  18. ChampagneReady says:

    There is a literal spider web of activity going on in so many aspects of the frame-up of Trump that it’s almost impossible to keep track of them. But I have confidence that Durham is. He had been on this case before it was even announced and he is nobody’s fool. He put FBI agents in prison that were a lot smarter than these reprobates who thought Clinton was going to be their cover.

    I can rationalize that Comey didn’t do a perp walk for the memos because he did the leaking through a pass through giving him “attorney client privilege.” He is a sinister scum bag. But he
    signed that first FISA warrant affidavit of probable cause and swore on his oath as an officer of the court that he was presenting the truth to the judge and he never dreamed at the time how that SIGNATURE is going to put him behind bars.

    There is absolutely no way whatsoever that he can square that with his testimony under oath to the Senate Judiciary Committee. It was plain and simple, a FRAUD on the FISA Court and his smug attitude is going to change shortly. Nothing he can do, he’s screwed.

    Liked by 2 people

  19. Thomas Minnehan says:

    Excellent posts above, particularly those related to Barr; e.g: amanda4321
    September 3, 2019 at 2:18 pm has a link to an excellent and detailed larry chin article on the global research web site. in addition, Whitney Webb has done extraordinary research on her four part series on Mint Press which lays out in more detail the crimes to which barr and clinton were involved in covering up.

    Bottom line, as it seems, is that Barr was key to all of the Iran contra crimes, cover ups and pardons; moreover, as ag under bush I, he blocked several investigations on other crimes.

    This record alone would cause one to say, what the hell is he doing in as AG but maybe that all was by design. The record and delays thus far in this trump admin as AG certainly leaves with a lack of confidence to say the least.

    Very depressing, frustrating, discouraging.

    Like

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