U.S. and China Begin High-Level Trade Talks in DC…

Giddy up.  Two days of intense trade discussions begin today in the Eisenhower building led by U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer and his Chinese counterpart Vice Premier Liu He. The stakes are high as the deadline for an agreement is March 2nd.

Ambassador Lighthizer is joined by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, and China’s arch nemesis, White House trade advisor Peter Navarro.

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Adding to the intensity, the United States just charged Chinese telecommunications company Huawei Technologies and its chief financial officer, Meng Wanzhou, with conspiring to violate U.S. sanctions on Iran by doing business through a subsidiary.  Ms. Meng was arrested in Canada at the request of the United States; her extradition has been requested by the Department of Justice.

President Trump has made sure the Chinese are aware the status quo cannot stand. Additionally, USTR Lighthizer has previously affirmed that significant, substantive and deliverable progress must be made to avoid pending tariff increases.

This is the first time China has faced such significant and openly hostile push-back within a trade discussion. To say the talks are tense would be a massive understatement. President Trump wants a deal; however, Trump, Lighthizer, Ross and Mnuchin have already put the consequences for failure in the middle of the table.

China knows what will happen on March 2nd, if they do not negotiate in full faith.

Beijing has provided little indication these current officials are willing to address the core U.S. demands to fully protect American intellectual property rights and end policies that Washington has said force U.S. companies to transfer technology to Chinese firms. Thus the severity of the two-day talks takes on a very confrontational tone.

Additionally the U.S. Team have previously accused China of cyber theft and illicit acquisition of U.S. technological trade secrets. China’s prior acquisition of U.S. technology firms is the basis for President Trump to leverage pending U.S. tariffs on $250 billion worth of Chinese imports.

If an agreement is not reached President Trump will raise tariffs on $200 billion of goods from 10 percent to 25 percent, effective with the March 2nd deadline. The U.S. administration has also threatened new tariffs on the totality of all remaining Chinese products shipped to the United States.

Initially China retaliated with their own tariffs; however, following the dinner between Chairman Xi and President Trump China suspended some of their reciprocal tariffs on U.S. agriculture.

Lastly, President Trump has blunted the traditional leverage of the Red Dragon by agreeing to meet with North Korea Chairman Kim Jong-un. Not coincidentally the timing for that summit intersects with the deadline for the U.S-China trade deal.

When you plant your trees in another man’s orchard, don’t be surprised if you end up paying for your own apples…

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This entry was posted in Big Government, China, Donald Trump, Economy, European Union, Legislation, media bias, President Trump, Russia, Trade Deal, Uncategorized, US dept of agriculture, US Treasury, USA. Bookmark the permalink.

88 Responses to U.S. and China Begin High-Level Trade Talks in DC…

  1. murray says:

    Finally something positive 🙂

    Now lets see if this pans out and how long it last before another shoe drops on us.

    Liked by 3 people

    • Orville R. Bacher says:

      Something Positive would be No Trade Deal with China. China’s strategy is to Militarize using U.S. dollars from their exports.
      For National Security Interests alone, China cannot ever be trusted.

      Liked by 5 people

      • End game for China Trade:
        • America exports Agricultural and Energy Products
        • China exports Apparel and Gift Products
        • Both countries produce Industrial, Technology and Defense Products for themselves

        Like

      • Jedi9 says:

        Completely Agree! If the US is serious about their position (economically speaking of course) with China, then I really don’t see how a deal is possible. IMO we are much better off without a deal, in fact I am hoping and praying that the tariffs go into effect, as any negotiated deal is just the Chinese trying to play us in order to buy time until Trump is out of office! Just as Sundance said complicating matters is indeed the Huawei situation, and given what was recently revealed when the indictment was read by the acting AG on Monday, it pretty much changes everything in how we will look at China. They simply can’t be trusted and have stolen billions of dollars from the US. How can we expect anything in good faith from the CHICOMS after they blatantly are stealing from us, then turn around and are in a militaristic expansion in the South China sea? China is persistent in trying to play us for the suckers, and if Liu He is successful in giving us bad apples, he will be seen as a hero back home to his CHICOM cohorts! Just think TROJAN HORSE!

        Liked by 1 person

        • Mo says:

          You are correct. We have a new Republican congressman from WI working with two Democrats (one being Jimmy Panetta-Leon Panetta son) and another Republican to pass legislation to curtail the President’s ability to use the commerce dept. sec 232 for Tariffs in the future and going back 4 years. It will assign the DOD and Congress oversight of any future use of section 232 National Security concerns for the issuance of Tariffs.

          The legislation It is unsurprisingly Supported and back by a long list of special interests including the Chamber of Congress. please see the attached tweet and if You do twitter send Him a message to support Our President. Thanks, Mo

          Liked by 1 person

          • Mo says:

            See:

            Like

            • Dennis Leonard says:

              See what,I see this,this is not going to fly
              National groups that support the bill
              U.S. Chamber of Commerce

              “The bipartisan Bicameral Congressional Trade Authority Act seeks to put guardrails on the administration’s broad authority by requiring it to provide evidence of such national security threats and subsequent Congressional approval for Section 232 tariffs. As a separate but equal branch of government, it is the responsibility of Congress to ensure that these tariffs are legitimate and supportive of our nation’s security and economic interests.”

              Like

    • Dennis Leonard says:

      Sort like this,

      Like

  2. Harvey Lipschitz says:

    Arresting a Chinese operative. Trump’s most brilliant tactic.Just the same Chinese would do.
    Brings them into town with a dose of reality therapy.

    Her case has all the list of crooked chinese tricks

    Intellectual Property theft
    Money laundering
    Spying

    Liked by 10 people

    • ParteaGirl says:

      Here’s an interesting thread about this: (posted earlier in the presidential thread)

      Liked by 3 people

      • GB Bari says:

        His thread sure reads well. Sounds good. Fits the timeline of which we are aware.

        I only question the one comment a few posts below his final thread entry #21, where the poster claims PDJT is removing a lot of goverment employees (this thread was on January 14,) during the shutdown. Really?

        I didn’t read a peep about that actually happening either here in CTH or from the eneMedia. One would think the Dimms / eneMedia would have screamed bloody murder had that happened.

        Liked by 2 people

    • felipe says:

      Harvey: And adding to your list, I believe she is also being charged with the setting up of non-disclosed shell companies designed to avoid international trade sanctions with (at least) Iran.

      Like

    • Mr_Henry says:

      She is no ordinary executive. Her family past is directly linked to Mao. Arresting her is on par with arresting a Bush or Clinton.

      Liked by 9 people

  3. William Schneider says:

    Sundance thanks again for keeping us abreast of all major economic and political events. I believe the chines will work with US to resurrect their sagging economy and to tamp down any future unrest in the homeland. Any such agreement would also give huge boost to US and chineses stock markets-thus lifting economy also. Pray for success.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Carrie2 says:

      William, Chinese are hard bargainers but they also know when they have to backstep because their citizens today like being in business, like good clothes, cars, etc. and a lot of that and food come from the USA to them. They need us and we need them but to do something behind our back has not worked and now they are wiser about what they can do and if so will suffer for it. Trump is amazing but have had plans for years for our Republic and remember, The Art of the Deal which must benefits both.

      Like

  4. 3%er says:

    With this team of wolverines you know that President Trump and the US will come out on top of this future Trade Agreement and this will be for many years to come God bless this man these guys are probably his best picks out of all of his cabinet team members.

    Liked by 10 people

  5. trapper says:

    I’m an old guy, so I can tell the same story over and over again.

    There was an American retailer that had a vicious reputation. It would enter into supply agreements to purchase all the product a manufacturer could produce. The owner of the factory would borrow to expand, add second and third shifts, and made money like he was printing it. The factory owner thought he was in pig heaven. Until the retailer made him the offer he couldn’t refuse.

    The retailer would cut him off, leaving him with three shifts of payroll he can’t meet and nowhere to sell his product, or he could sell out to the retailer at the retailer’s price and terms. The retailer owned him. The retailer did this over and over again. They all sold.

    Where is China going to sell its rubber dog shit and $3 sneakers if not in America? The answer, in case Xi hasn’t figured it out yet: America OWNS China, not the other way around. It’s checkmate.

    The ONLY thing the Trump team is negotiating is the terms under which the US will permit the Chinese economy to continue to exist.

    Liked by 18 people

  6. Ausonius says:

    Holman Jenkins of the Wall Street Journal wrote in today’s issue:

    …Nobody even needed these episodes to suspect that Huawei’s spectacular success has not been the product entirely of its own ingenuity and hard work (though these have been considerable). U.S. and other Western companies also vigorously “learn” from each other right up to the limit prescribed by our patent laws. In China, there is no limit. Stealing is regarded as a national development strategy and patriotic duty. The U.S. indictment alleges that Huawei even offered bonuses to employees who successfully purloined a competitor’s trade secrets….

    See:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-can-destroy-huawei-11548806847

    That information is obvious to anyone in a university with Chinese “exchange students” (i.e. spies). The Chinese students openly and blatantly cheat in their courses, sometimes in organized squads.

    My son quit graduate school at the U.S.C. Medical School because of them: the professors were uninterested in the cheating problem, and one assumed therefore that the administration took the tuition money from the China and looked the other way.

    Other students at other universities have told me similar stories. Anecdotal but…

    Like

    • Chinese cheating. I know what you mean. I play golf with some , once in a while. They prefer (some) not to play with Americans . We know the rules. They don’t like that. Funny.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Carrie2 says:

        mickey, and my husband a RE broker won’t deal with them because you can’t dicker with them. Here they are very different from their country citizens but become nasty, money hungry, mannerless, etc. altho those I studied with in Integrated Medicine were thank God not that way because in Integrated Med you have to be honest, upright and be a good citizen or you will not get patients and no rip off in way too high charges.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Jedi9 says:

        Ha ha! That is pretty funny, because its the truth! Just look at the 9 dash line argument in the SCS! Chinese in general don’t like playing by the rules, that is why I don’t mind stealing their money now.

        Like

    • Perot Conservative says:

      Ausonius, I can confirm.

      I worked at a Chinese-American company that appears to have stolen code from a project they were working on, to launch their own product. The owners are Chinese immigrants. Americans were NEVER allowed to touch the code.

      Likewise, a friend is a professor at a major university out west. His sources on campus say Chinese immigrants are70% of the cases of cheating.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. nuwildcat1977 says:

    I am grateful for Mr. Trump calling BS on China trade practices when his predecessors looked the other way. In fact, he has done the same on many other important issues of the day—eliminating regulations, the Iran deal, the climate change farce, NATO members paying their fair share, illegal immigration, etc. I despise those who work tirelessly to subvert our president. There will always be political disagreements but what is being done to Trump goes much further and is dangerous. The Dems, establishment Republicans, deep state and media are not only being unfair to Trump but are undermining his efforts to effect meaningful positive change for our country.

    Liked by 6 people

  8. Doppler says:

    The US economy remains very strong and growing, despite fallbacks in China and elsewhere, despite the Fed trying to trip the economy with aggressive rate hikes, despite the MSM telling and retelling the fake story of Trump economic incompetence. China needs access to our market more than we need them. All of the unfairness the President and his economic team have identified in China’s practices seem to be uncontroversial, except that Chinese leaders like to make a not-very-credible show of denying them. I don’t think the outcome of these negotiations is in much doubt, the US will get just about everything it demands. Both countries economic performance will jump in response, benefiting many other countries as well – a very big plus sum game. Drama swirls around the negotiation tactics and the timing, and whether domestic Deep Staters might conspire with China to make the President look bad, to push forward their impeachment ambitions. If so, let’s hope it all get recorded for prosecution purposes and for posterity.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. citizen817 says:

    Like

  10. JonS says:

    I’m so glad you correctly identified Navarro. He is the man behind the curtain!

    Like

    • tonyE says:

      I love the way he is seen holding his hands under the table.

      Perhaps he’s got a gun pointed towards…hmmm… you figure it out. 😉

      “Hey punk, you done having kids? Feeling lucky?”

      Liked by 1 person

  11. citizen817 says:

    Liked by 4 people

  12. Tiffthis says:

    I love reading about Trump negotiations- I imagine he’s having a grand ol’ time.

    Liked by 3 people

  13. GSparrow says:

    For the sake of the sliding Chinese economy, the Chinese must be begrudgingly participating in these negotiations with plans to enact revenge later at the 1st opportunity. As SD mentioned the charges against Huawei’s Meng Wanzhou has definitely caused serious outrage and consternation in the mind of Xi Jinping and his “People’s Congress.”

    An equal outrage to China is Venezuela where they have invested mega $ Billions, including $50 billion in loans and a $ 9.5 billion, 400,000 barrels-per-day refinery that was slated to open in 2021. Russia has similar investment problems and has backed up their displeasure with military transfers to Venezuela including posturing with 2 nuclear capable Tu-160 bombers.

    With all the hostility ramping up, it is incredible the 2 sides can sit across a trade negotiating table together. It demonstrates how mutual economic interests can modify the threat of war. But their are limits to everything and Russia has sanctions imposed on it.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. JackB says:

    Would a totalitarian regime implement any deal they sign on paper?

    They’ve never implemented any of the WTO rulings against them.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. citizen817 says:

    Liked by 2 people

  16. citizen817 says:

    Like

  17. Fools Gold says:

    The red dragon has been shot in the foot by Trump. Their economy will completely tank after these tarrifs are put in place. The red dragon and puttietang have placed small bets on the Venezuela dictator to raise anxiety here at home while raising the resistance level with US socialist party & media while negotiating the deal. Hopefully Trump sees right thru it and don’t listen to the worried crowd around him. If the deal is going nowhere Trump should immediately deploy 2 carries at sea next to Venezuela along with subs & airstike offensive/defensive forces along with a battalion of battle ready soldiers nearby while warning the commies you will never enter our hemisphere unchallenged but if you want to discuss a deal I’m ready and willing to cut a deal. This is my opinion and I’m ready to do the deal in USA as well as long as I’m able to shoot straight.

    Like

  18. Perot Conservative says:

    Simple question: my perception is that American media coverage of China’s illegal practices are minimal. Am I right?

    I see little.

    On top of that, we’ve had 4-5 cases now of the FBI filing espionage charges against Chinese nationals or Chinese-Americans. Maybe more?

    Like

  19. cripto says:

    “Tense”. The Chinese delegation was swarmed by very vocal and angry Chinese protesters as they disembarked at the venue. The Security team had to shove them off.

    This is only round one. They will have to meet several more times before the tariff deadline in March. Counterintuitively, IP protections and cyber security will probably be easier to negotiate (considering the Huawei indictments and scandal) than getting China to move on ‘non-tariff’ barriers i.e. state subsidies for SOEs. Any postings on Huawei by media and social media has been banned by the Ministry of Truth.

    Interestingly, The Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs just had a reshuffle appointing a CCP organization and personnel guy with no diplomacy experience to be the Party watchdog in the FM. Could mean any number of things from tightening control over the diplomatic corps to recruiting only the Party approved Xi loyalists into the service.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. As I stated before. Nothing real will be accomplished until AFTER the 25% tariffs are applied. China stands to lose on any trade deal that hits their main areas of tech, etc. China also does not want to be held to any concrete time tables and proof scenarios. China always lies to get their way and then does not abide by any agreement that is not in their best interest.

    So the meeting will go on and they both will say much was discussed and progress was made. Just smiles and fake info to keep both stock markets up like last time. Noting concrete will get done. Nothing! in this meeting.Sure China may need some food but not much else. It is a waste mostly – Just for appearances. After 25% applied then real work will begin but not till then…

    Trump has all the cards here and needs to play them THIS year. China’s economy has been struggling for the last 3 years and is getting worse. PBOC, Peoples Bank Of China has been juicing their markets just to keep them alive while US FED has been raising and tightening.

    If Trump blinks and does not follow through with the 25% tariffs he will have lost most of China respect and it will be hard to get back unless he just springs the tariffs later on them quickly.

    Trump must be willing to own the temporary downside which will be significant for US markets but catastrophic for China’s markets. If he is not willing to take a 10-20% stock market correction to fix this, then he is not ready to do this and we continue to lose more long term.

    President Trump has to do all his hard things this year (wall, trade, fire FBI and DOJ people, declassify, etc) and take the pain and then will have 2020 to get ready to calm things and the election. The longer he has been in Washington the more he is thinking more like professional politicians – Afraid to own downsides and always worried about the next election and polls.

    Bottom line:
    For US to win there will be near term pain on both sides but China’s pain will be much much greater than US pain. Then long term US gains. Long term China loses. But Can Trump sell the long term gains to the people and corporations to accept the short term stress?

    Liked by 2 people

  21. cripto says:

    CCP mouthpiece, Global Times, has a very ‘optimistic’ view of the trade negotiations, whilst blasting the US in another editorial for being paranoid.

    “Chinese optimistic on trade”
    By Wang Cong Source:Global Times Published: 2019/1/30 21:58:41
    ‘Good faith’ from both sides raises breakthrough hopes

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1137585.shtml

    Although they have another op-ed on the IC meeting on ‘world threats’ yesterday:
    ‘China threat theory’ gauges US paranoia”

    (some quotes)
    “The most powerful country in the world says it is the most threatened and penetrated one. This is contrary to common sense and can only make people feel that the US is quite neurotic on security issues.”
    “The “China threat theory” is a neat gimmick, a scam of the elites, driven by special interests. But it also serves as a useful measure of the degree to which the US political system is deviating from seeking truth from facts.”
    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1137596.shtml

    Like

  22. Pyrthroes says:

    However these substantive negotiations pan out –and given VSG’s truth-telling, they will be to both sides’ long-term mutual benefit– you can bet that no Rat Administration of any nature would even conceive of confronting Hsi’s ChiCom oligarchs.

    Leveraging America’s surging Main Street vs. Wall Street economy [credit Sundance!] against collectivist satraps’ ossified mercantilist dependence on parasitic fraud and outright theft via low taxes, high employment, border controls, energy independence projecting financial as well as military/naval (Space Force?) power, is not a MzBill, DiFi, Fauxcahontas, Maxine Wigmore or Coco Loco thing.

    As an aside: Just as TR’s “Bull Moose” run tossed Taft in favor of anti-Constitutionalist Woodrow Wilson, and Ross Perot subverted Bush I to elevate the second most corrupt and worthless President in American history –we’re looking at you, Andrew Johnson, Slick Willy, and Benedict Barack Gangrenous– so a Schultz candidacy will abort any Rat Deceptor at birth, knocking he/she/it off K Street’s pedestal to the gender-neutral public potty it prefers.

    Like

  23. G. Combs says:

    From 2009 as Obummer went into office:

    i…
    Meanwhile, China’s Premier Wen Jiabao says he’s “worried” about the health of China’s $1 trillion worth of U.S. Treasury bonds. The consequence of a slowing U.S. economy, weakening stock market and massive government spending are threatening to send the dollar lower over time, devaluing holdings like Treasuries. That doesn’t, however, mean China will sell its massive bond holdings, since there are so few places for such huge pools of capital to go these days (that of course, is not a good thing). Quoted in the Financial Times, Luo Ping, a director-general at the China Banking Regulatory Commission, put it more bluntly:”

    “Except for US Treasuries, what can you hold?” he asked. “Gold? You don’t hold Japanese government bonds or UK bonds. US Treasuries are the safe haven. For everyone, including China, it is the only option.”
    Mr Luo, whose English tends toward the colloquial, added: “We hate you guys. Once you start issuing $1 trillion-$2 trillion [$1,000bn-$2,000bn] . . .we know the dollar is going to depreciate, so we hate you guys but there is nothing much we can do.”

    http://www.usnews.com/blogs/the-ticker/2009/03/13/signs-of-stress-warren-buffetts-downgrade-chinas-treasury-jitters.html

    Like

  24. Ospreyzone says:

    While the Chinese Panda sits at the table and talks, the dragon acts invisibly. Suddenly, Foxconn, based in Taiwan, has decided against building LCD displays for televisions in Wisconsin.

    What was once a massive investment plan offering 13,000 jobs, is now on hold. It seems that the price of televisions has suddenly dropped since last year by over 18% – likely due to substantial dumping of TVs on the US market at cut-rate prices.

    Isn’t it also interesting that Foxconn, which does most of its manufacturing in China, is also China’s largest private employer. Funny that.
    https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2019/01/30/foxconn/

    Like

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