Six months ago, I was asked my opinion of the Silicon Valley alignment with MAGA. I said at the time I thought it would last around 18 months and finally climax with a large fracture in the political movement around 2026. I had no idea at the time, the group of technocrats would begin publicly advocating for replacing American workers before Trump took office.
For the past several days I have watched Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks, Elon Musk and his big tech influencers debating with their followers about the importance for them to continue expanding H-1b visas for foreign tech workers. It is stunning to see this crew double, triple and quadruple down on advocacy, while defining American workers as inadequate for their Silicon Valley needs.
Alas, it is what it is. Within the argument Musk, Ramaswamy, Sacks and group have presented multiple justifications for their foreign worker assistance programs, while advocating for expanded immigration support therein.
Within the tone of their argument, they essentially say the American worker is (1) not intellectual enough; (2) doesn’t have the right work ethic; and the latest point of justification is that (3) American culture is to blame for their need to import foreign workers.
As Vivek Ramaswamy recently said, “Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long (at least since the 90s and likely longer). That doesn’t start in college, it starts YOUNG.” Thus, as the narrative is sold, American workers need to be replaced with more culturally appropriate Indian tech workers.
When the Indian-American starts saying Indian culture is more adequate at creating workers for the American tech industry, he loses me completely.
If the Indian culture is the holy grail breeding ground for software engineers, then why isn’t New Delhi replacing Silicon Valley?
Considering that factually the Indian culture is entirely based on a caste system, the argument is even more absurd.
What we need are training and recruitment centers for American students. However, the larger issue within the billionaire tech team advocacy is an issue of self-interest.
What we see in the justifications and arguments of the Ramaswamy, Musk and Sacks group is a very specific point of immigration policy for their subset within a singular sector of the American economy. Perhaps this would not be such a big issue, if these points of advocacy were coming from outside government interest groups. However, with this tech team going into the administration, the influence becomes something a little bigger.
The part the Tech Group do not understand is the core of the American DNA, “Liberty“…
It is only from the position of liberty, intellectualism actualized in freedom form, that the working culture of America, the ingenuity part, can be understood.
If you attempt to quantify Americanism with math and algorithms, the translated outcome always fails.
Dear Vivek Ramaswamy, my counter take…
Several years ago, Florida Power and Light won the prestigious international Edward Demming Award for excellence in multi-platform engineering, efficiency superiority and total quality in the process of energy management.
However, the scruffy rednecks did not blow every PhD intellectual out of the water with slide rules, CAD programs, articulated and quantified quality improvement processes and engineering acumen. They did it with hard hats and dirty fingernails.
Because they lost the award, the jaw-agape Japanese spent 6 months visiting and reviewing FPL and later published a 1,000-page study essentially saying FPL “wasn’t really good, they were just lucky.”
You see, the reviewers couldn’t actually quantify the reason why the Florida-based energy company was so successful. In response the FPL field leadership laughed, took out magic markers and wrote on the back of their hard hats: “WE’RE NOT GOOD, WE’RE RUCKY.”
A few years later, every single Kuwaiti oil field was blown up by Saddam Hussein. Global analysts and think-tanks proclaimed it would take 5 years to cap them all off and restart the Kuwait oil pumping industry. Well, the Kuwaiti’s and Saudi’s called Texans, who had them all capped and back in working order in 6 months.
We are a nation that knows how to get shit done.
A few more years pass, and the Northern Chile mine workers were trapped two miles underground. The eyes of the world began to tear as the word spread. Most began to whisper no one could save them. Who did they call for help? A bunch of hick miners from USA coal country who went down there, worked on the fly, engineered the rescue equipment on site, and saved every one of them.
Yup, that’s our America. Ingenuity born from freedom.
Across the pond a half-breed Islamic whack job, armed with an AK-47 and a goal to meet his virgins, began opening fire on a train in France. The scruffneck Americans on board didn’t run to the nearest safe room and hide themselves amid baguettes and brie. They said, “let’s go”, and beat the stuffing out of that little nut with a death wish.
Legion d’Honneur or not, that’s us. WE ARE AMERICANS! That’s just how we roll.
In fact, Lady Liberty can stroll along the Champs-Elysées with a swagger befitting Mae West because without her arrival, they’d be speaking German in the Louvre. Yet, for the better part of the past decade, a group of intellectual leftists have been teaching our children that it’s better to be sitting around a campfire eating sustainable algae cakes and picking parasites off each other; because ‘save the planet’, or something similarly minded. It would appear, they hate the outcomes and inequities from freedom.
Warmest regards,
Americans First!
My BEST advice to @elonmusk @VivekGRamaswamy @DavidSacks and the Silicon Valley tech elites, is to keep talking. Just keep telling Americans how terrible they are and how they need to be replaced. Great Job.
Every time you guys open your typeset in public, @LauraLoomer grows a…
— TheLastRefuge (@TheLastRefuge2) December 26, 2024
Memo to Elon and Vivek: f your dreams of millions more H1B visas and the removal of the current annual cap/quota of new green cards per year for your precious Chicoms and Indians.
Elon and Vivek are definitely not hiring and not going to hire white Europeans, South Koreans, and Japanese when they talk about “muh we are only hiring the top 0.1% of foreigners”.
What is the point of closing the border, building the Wall, and deporting 15 million illegals if you just want to let 20 million more Chinese and Indians to come here “legally” to work for pennies on the dollar for Musk and Ramaswamy and Tim Cook and Zuckerberg?
They’ve started a firestorm with this one, I’m sure they’re in for their first dressing down from President Trump
This is all for cheap labor, Period.
And I don’t appreciate being lied to.
There are young tech junkies all over this country that could do the job.
But those young tech junkies may have a problem using tech to illegally spy on Americans for the government and take away our rights. Foreigners surely won’t.
Laura Loomer has been raising hell about this on X today.
As I see it one of the problems is the rusult of the US education system.
Yes absolutely, fortunately that is a problem that can be fixed rapidly (especially with a young person’s spongelike ability to soak up technical knowledge).
Give them shock treatment, Just like the economy.
It will never fail.
Laura Loomer loves to throw grenades just to stir things up. Not impressed.
Communist chineese & caste Indians are no more compatible with a constitutional republic than illiterate & destitute 3rd world shiiteholeans.
Facts are facts.
As Thomas Sowell said in Basic Economics, when someone talks about a resource shortage make sure they add “at the current price” to the sentence.
Doesn’t matter what resource – oil, lithium, IT workers … “Oh we can’t find enough <resource> we need to do something”
Is really : “Oh we can’t find enough <resource> AT THE CURRENT PRICE WE’RE PAYING we need to do something”
In other words, raise how much you pay and I’m willing to bet you’ll have PLENTY of AMERICAN IT workers.
This trick is played all the time. Remember, always add “at the current price” to get the real reason.
I think Sundance and Vivek and Elon are talking past each other.
First, Sundance, the vast majority of our students at every level, are lazy and undereducated. They went to schools that don’t look anything like what I went to in the 50s and 60s and 70s.
They grew up in a society that looks like nothing I grew up in.
Their underachievement is their fault and the fault of politicians, parents, school employees, society at large.
The best of the best can beat anyone but that leaves 95% of them out of the picture.
Elon and Vivek, you come from societies that are worse off. Listen to Sundance.
You want to bring America back? It’s fair game to attack everything in our society that has allowed learning and scholarship to lanquish.
But, watch your mouth, boys. You each were given by God superior intellects, and you KNOW THAT.
America’s charge to educate all kids, not just one class or caste or gender.
Stop talking past each other.
Cmon out to the country where we get shit done you obviously live and work in a City. We are out here building roads putting up power lines to keep your computers working. We are the ones who won WW2. Do it get in your car and meet some great country kids they still say sir and maam open the door for ya.
As important as getting stuff done is, that is not the ‘only’ attribute of America.
America joined this work attribute with the closely associated attribute of innovation.
Innovation is the art seeing the same thing and working just as hard, but somehow thinking differently about it.
Sorry, Articman, I was in education for forty years and I know what I’m talking about.
Sadly, there aren’t enough of YOU!
No, I don’t live in a city.
I live in California.
Sooooo ….why didn’t you fix the screwed up system?
Ready to read!
Don’t you see, we have to do it ourselves, that’s why there’s not enough of us.
When you ride around the California highways does it really seem like there are not enough of us!
Like all the yankees pouring into where I live with all there servants in tow because they won’t and now can’t do anything for themselves. Each family has a carbon footprint the size of a small town with all the teams of foreign cheap labor executing the work they should be doing for themselves.
And they’re all miserable, and one way or another we all pay for it.
The zenith of American education ocurrs sometime between 1955 and 1965. After that, the descentvto mediocrity occurs.
In my humble opinion, it took a decade or two for the intellectual LEFTISTS allowed in after WW2 started to change our society into their ideals. By then, thecrotvwascestablished in the institutions.
We obviously haventvlearned a thing if we are talking of bringing nin even more groups with culturescthatvare anathema to our culture, Constitution and way of life.
Not sure how you formulated your view of the US education system. My parents were the first generation of children of parents who legally immigrated to the US. Their dream for their children was to have them go to college.
This did not work for me. An education for me would have been to be given some space in time in my life after high school to learn ALL of the things I could be: a butcher, baker, candlestick maker, nurse, plumber, electrician, ad nauseum. So I dropped out of college just to save my parents some money.
I went back to college while working full time to support my home away from home. I studied what I wanted to learn. This occurred after 1983.
In my NSHO, the education system , as I understood it was not a failure. I think it is a failure that it the education system is forced upon growing and maturing humans when they may not be ready or want to have something called education forced upon them.
AI and other cutting edge tech requires near-genius kids coming out of college. I’m going to bet we don’t produce enough of those people like they’re saying we don’t. Look at the woke indoctrination that’s taken over our best universities and elite businesses . The best students are very likely getting passed by while quotas and DEI sideline them. Elon and Vivek want us… the USA… to win the AI war. Whoever masters that and the other important programming, chip manufacturing, software development, and industrial manufacturing challenges over the next decade owns the future and will be on top. Economically and militarily. Do you think Boeing is turning out great products now? We all know why. I’m NOT for giving jobs away to non-Americans, but I am in favor of winning this battle against China, Russia, India or any of our competitors and military rivals…. EVEN if that means for the next few years where hire the best people from anywhere we can find them. But they also need to be selling the idea that we will improve our schools and students HERE to ensure we stay on top.
Caste system is DEEPLY INGRAINED into indians. At the genetic level.
Vivik will not understand Sundance’s arguments.
i worked on a pipeline in 1979-80 in west virgina that had an inspector/civil eng. from india. the local school asked him to come in and talk to the kid’s. one asked him if he ate mcdonalds hamburgers, since in india the cow’s are sacred. he said oh yea. your cow’s aren’t sacred.
An Iraqi hide under a table to eat Spam, Allah couldn’t see him.
with a small a.
Vivek will never understand why he lost his bid for the US Presidency.
The solution to the first isn’t “f*ck it, replace everyone”. Their final solution seals our fate.
You want to get people off their asses and back to work? Start executing fentanyl dealers, ban foreign workers, and tell people “if you want it to work, fix it yourself.”
South Asians are not the answer. They write garbage code, too.
I don’t know what the problem is but here’s two anecdotal issues that surmises how lazy some of the workforce is:
We had a package out for delivery. All day it said it would be delivered by 7pm. At 5:20 the status on the Fed Ex app changed to couldn’t deliver. My wife paid for overnight delivery and needed the item before 8am the next day. I called Fed Ex and they said the driver “timed out for the day”. We were at a friends house a few days later and was telling the story, another guy said he’s had the driver literally on his road before and the same thing happened. He said he’s found out the drivers check in early and good off, they time out and are done. Fed Ex would’ve tanked if that was their work ethic in the 80’s and 90’s.
Our USPS delivery guy almost refuses to get out of his vehicle. He’ll cram our mailbox full in order to fit a box in with the other money constantly ruining other mail items. Also, we continuously get “couldn’t access house: our front door is 50’ from the street and is not blocked. It’s annoying.
We don’t need to import more “workers”, but we do need a cultural shift away from laziness.
I don’t know what the solution is though.
.
…the vast majority of our students at every level, are lazy and undereducated…
That’s not who these companies ostensibly are looking to hire. If there’s an American white boy these days coming out of a STEM program of any kind from a top school, he’s already had to be superior in every way just to be there because of admissions “criteria”.
.
Kids graduating from high school this year could not write a sentence that did not have a grammatical or spelling error in it. They can’t do it. Until they can, we don’t have a workforce that is worth a s*(t.
Many foreign workers have such thick accents you can’t understand them.
How does this help get stuff done?
Completely agree! Good post TL. I’ve been in the education field for a long time and the changes in how kids are educated and what’s expected of them is enormous. They are being shortchanged at every level of their education and it is being done on purpose. They are not being challenged or given a chance to learn like they are capable of. Everybody wins is the absolute worst tenet of education to come along in the last 30 years. Our kids are losing because we have ignored what’s going on for far too long in their education. This must change and quickly.
Let me qualify this a bit. I’m referring to public school education here. There are some private schools who are doing a much better job of educating kids properly. Not all of them, but many of them are. All kids need this opportunity to succeed and they should be able to choose their schools to attend or the schools that are lacking need complete overhauls. We can demand it and get it done.
Well, all I can say is, if need be YOU’RE FIRED!…..
I work in IT.
I deal with a multitude of different companies with different outsourced IT departments.
The worst “engineers” are, indeed, from India.
Add the language barrier issues and it just creates inefficiencies and more down time.
There are exceptions to everything, sure, but when I hear “Jay” from India is on the other line, I already know I’m there an extra hour or two.
The Indian “engineer” pipeline is a scam. Corporations outsource the hiring to Indian nationals who then collect bribes from applicants wether those applicants have requisite skills or not. Most Indian H-1B holders are not technically proficient for the jobs they are hired for. Other members and the hiring managers train them up on the job.
If Trump chooses cheap Indian scam artists and the desires of foreigner oligarchs over working Americans, he should face the same ridicule and anger as the other POS who have sold us out repeatedly.
He won’t.
I’m sure they pay Jay less, so your bosses don’t care if no one can understand him.
That’s O-1 visa program. H1B is different program
Howabout
not H1B Visa
not 0-1 Visa
but
NO Visa!
You guys – for being so smart – are SO stupid!
You’ll notice Sundance isn’t really agitated with the prospect of the Surveillance State. We’re all riding along as particles in this giant chain of human events. The Surveillance State already had its plans for us – how did their plans work out! – So much for plans!
The Laws of Economics are such a comforting dependable blessing which always foil the plans of the voyeurs and busybodies. Inflation in particular will always snare them in its web (it’s funny how their answer to this is to just print more money – a flat out testimonial that we’re not dealing with rocket-scientists). As long as we can bear the financial burden and not lose our Freedom (paper ballot elections), we’ll be alright.
Also Social Pressure will eventually play a huge role, once people lose their fascination for the “Intelligence Community” it will revert back to its historical position of very low status. Espionage has always been looked down on for obvious reasons. It’s such a futile and unproductive endeavor – but it got a gloss and shine on it when the Nuclear Age arrived because it became necessary. That gloss and shine is now in the process of being removed.
The Surveillance apparatus is one of the hallmarks of any communistically Inflated political system. Not only because of its unproductive nature but rather because of the bloated amounts of fiat money necessary to sustain it as it grows like a cancer.
The gig is up in that regard. There’s no more room for either political party to squander the National Credit. Unproductive Monetary Easing will immediately show up as Inflation. Personally I believe Monetary Policy should target 0% inflation, a nice flat level playing field, it’s the obvious sensible target. This idea of an Entitled Caste with access to some sort of gravy at the top (while everyone else gets left behind) really must go.
So let me leave you with some very good advice the Old-Schoolers were giving us when we were coming up, looking back I’m sure they knew we were all being monitored even back then (and now we know that all our old telephone data was being swept up comprehensively just like the cell phone data of today), they used to tell us “don’t ever do anything that you might be embarrassed about, even in private.”
The whole world has learned that lesson now.
That’s why Sundance isn’t worried, Happy New Year!
God told us the same thing.
Let’s get this posted all over Truth Social plus other social media.
We need Trump to see it but Elon et al need to see that we’re collectively much bigger than them.
Amazing thread from someone on the front lines of the H1B crisis, and it’s exactly what you would expect:
Americans ARE excellent at their jobs!
Hasn’t the CIA done about 30 color revolutions over the past decades, started multiple illegal wars and blamed it on the victims, goaded Russia into a possible nuclear response, and destroyed the US culture and political system, and created a US surveillance state?
That is real talent!
The simple answer there is the Deep State are not Americans.
Sundance hit it out of the park again. The last two days have been brilliant.
Decades of dumbing down American kids will be difficult to overcome. There is no time like the present to start the reversal.
In 1982 on a seismic crew I was on, at Prudhoe Bay on the Arctic Ocean, we had a snowcat blow an oil filter on a 6V53T Detroit engine. Engine seized. HF radio with MARS help got a call out to Denver. Within a day there was a Learjet came up to the Dead Horse airport with a crated replacement engine. The driver of the Cat 966 loader with forks reported that that plane’s crew looked spooked as they saw him bouncing across the runway with forks pointed at the side of their Learjet.
In my time in various energy patches, I learned that there is nothing that can’t be fixed in the oil business if you throw enough money at the right places. Contrast that to various levels of government, they can throw unlimited money around and just make things worse.
As far as German being spoken in the Louvre: do you know why French country roads are lined with trees? It’s so German soldiers can march in the shade.
Quietus, thanks for the laugh with your last paragraph!
Rachel Bovard
@rachelbovard
According to Census Bureau data, the US has more than 2x as many American workers with STEM degrees as there are STEM jobs. And many of the STEM jobs that do exist go to foreigners, because our immigration system allows them to legally be paid less.
But sure, it’s the tv shows.
https://x.com/rachelbovard/status/1872351794120294458
^^^ THIS ^^^
The crux of it all. Press 1 for English.
I have a “select Somali language” on the ATM. When I see this I have a moment of thinking “where am I?”
At my eye doctor office, there were 4 PAGES of languages they kindly offered translators for. “At no charge to the patient.”
I told the receptionist they left off a sentence at the end. It should read “At no charge to the patient as American taxpayers paid them for you. Right before they paid your bill.”
She was not amused.
Now this is valuable information. If it is true then the reasoning is off by the three amigos. Is it a money saving shortcut that is driving their push for foreign workers or is it truly to step up the intelligence factor in the hiring of top foreign workers? Elon seemed to answer that as Clarion posted about in his opinion anyway. Vivek seems to be looking at it differently and in a money saving move.
Hopefully, if there truly are more than enough qualified Americans out there, we ensure they get hired first. No American should get pushed out anymore due to just cost saving measures.
The government IS the real problem here by making laws that hinder Americans ability to work, earn a decent living while millions of Americans are also addicted to painkillers drawing monthly disability checks and when interviewed they sit on the couch all day playing video games biding their time until they qualify for social security. They NEVER intend on going back to work -EVER!!
Ask Mike Rowe about this problem. It’s now in every facet of employment but has been obvious to those of us in the construction trades since about 2010. Illegals have also taken over all the construction jobs as 2nd generation of Americans don’t want to learn how to work with their hands. Everyone wants their children to sit in front of a computer with the natural hopes of the parents who always want a better life for their children.
Yes, by all means end foreign worker visas and round up all the illegal aliens and send them home so reality for all of us can settle in to force us all to adjust. I’ve been advocating for this for 2 decades now even though my own contracting business of 50+ years will be completely shut down as almost all others will be but after a few years of little or no home repairs or home building takes place while we train American workers.
labor rates in construction haven’t increased at all since the late 2000’s. All due to illegal labor.
I live in Cali and all the construction jobs are done by Mexicans and it takes these workers 2 times longer to get a job done. There are renovation jobs on my street that are years old. Just a 20 foot retaining wall took close to a year.
The quality is nowhere as good as Americans. The mexicans come up short. And, frankly, for the expensive housing and buildings then you see the American crews while the small projects are delegated to mexicans. You see it all the time around here.
Lemme guess.
Don Jr. sides with Elon and Vivik, which means JD Vance does too.
And they don’t listen to Sundance, even though by SD’s own admission he has been offered a seat at the “caste” table.
Is Trump strong enough to listen to his better nature gifted to him by the Almighty, rather than these combined voices?
Let the reader judge for him or herself.
My money’s on President Trump.
Yep I will too. Would love to know if Trump Tower was built by Americans.
Sudance. I definitely want AMERICAN workers hired first but could it be that with DEI and college indoctrination that we are not graduating enough people that can actually benefit the companies that need them?
I have a nephew who is doing his PHD at the university of Indiana and he has been very disgusted with what takes place now at colleges. PHD students of course have to teach and help grade papers, etc. He was told right from the start that they would NOT be allowed to give a failing grade to anyone for any work. They were told that these people pay alot of money to come here and they wont be failed. So as long as you sign that student loan form your going to PASS. He said people know this and they hand in assignment papers that are one paragraph with run on sentences and bad punctuation and many times nothing really to do with the assignment that was supposed to be an actual term paper and he has to pass them. He is even thinking about just not finishing his PHD because he no longer wants to teach at a college if that is what it is going to be like. Other countries actually make their students LEARN the MATERIAL
If I were a CEO I would NOT hire anyone from one of our colleges just because they have a diploma. I would want proof they know what they are supposed to know. I would much rather hire someone without a diploma that has proven expierence. These liberal idiots graduate college thinking they are smarter than anyone (when in reality they are idiots). They want TOP PAY, very litte work, work from home, etc
They really stepped in it, and I was glad to see how much blowback they incurred from people.
I thought their purpose was
to down size and reduce the bloated and inefficient agencies of government.
I didn’t expect them to start pushing another agenda!
I’m sure the immigration issue is going to be divisive in many ways and not cut and dried.
I told my pastor I think it will be especially divisive
within the church . We want to be helping our neighbors but not enabling trafficking.
I have faith that President Trump will not let AMERICA FIRST get high jacked even by well meaning people. There’s no place for someone to come along and blame Americans .
We’re going to have to stay vigilant,
Mmm…Maybe they believe that making Government more efficient entails firing all the “lazy, uneducated Americans” (in their minds) and replacing them with “harder working, lower cost, exploitable ” HB-1 foreign worker bees?
Indian competency is a myth. Let’s just say they not civically minded or oriented towards the morality required to sustain liberty. This is really a horrible development. Incidentally this post initiated a scam interruption. Maybe something doesn’t like this story?
Sometimes Trump sets ‘em up to watch ‘em fall and I can only hope and pray that this is one of those times. They have well and truly ‘stepped in it’ with all the things they have now said.
I was thinking the same thing. I think it is called “bait and switch.” I love when that happens with Trump.
Elon just promoted a tweet that calls Americans “retarded.”
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1872457740955918750
I don’t think that “sums it up” at all.
All they know is Ghandi ‘the peacemaker’ but whom was a terrible racist in both India and South Africa.
Culture… really?
Exhibit A:
LOL!
You can tell that they had a lot of fun with that!
Laura loomer is prejudiced and close to being racist. That said, this is all about cost. Elon and Vivek are businessmen. American workers are too expensive for them.
.
American workers might be more expensive. That’s not the same as “too expensive”.
.
My mother always told me “Everything in moderation” and I think that applies here. We need quality work opportunities for young Americans and these tech companies are one option. We may also need to supplement in specific areas while letting the market forces drive students into those areas of study. Immigration reform should identify those skillsets that that are valuable to America and then moderate the numbers so that the short term interests of industry are balanced with the long term interests of America’s youth.
That’s nice but you don’t become a tech billionaire by doing that. You do it by hiring cheap foreign labor, working people to death, and getting government subsidies and tax breaks for doing so.
I agree that all of those things are happening and that facilitating those things with policy to the detriment of Americans is not desirable. But in some instances, we may very well have a talent shortage and the lead time necessary to develop that talent is too long for that particular industry. So, IF we are going to allow immigrants into the country, shouldn’t we prioritize the skillsets (and quantities) that benefit America? Hence my mother’s wisdom.
India: It’s Worse Than You Think
Most Westerners know nothing about India beyond vague ideas about Hinduism, yoga, gurus, and maybe a dash of Bollywood. To such people, this article will be a rude awakening.
https://www.unz.com/article/india-its-worse-than-you-think/
Sundance, this is a very could debate because it hits at the very heart of what has, and thus will make America great again.
Well that didn’t take long. 🥴😂
Vivek’s ego couldn’t help itself and blew his wad early.
I’ve said all along these Silicon Valley self anointed kings did not have America’s interest in mind, when they gave their last minute support to President Trump.
I’ve been consistent in not ever trusting any of them, Musk, Thiel, Ramaswampy, Vance. Showing their true colors already. It was inevitable.
And Swampy certainly brought absolutely the least added value, except a glib mouth.
He is another Obama.
I have worked in wireless network engineering for over 30 years. I’ve watched, as many of you have, all of IT and telecom get overrun by Indians. They have bull-rushed all areas of engineering at many colleges too. They come here from a third-world culture where people worship cows and dump their human crap into waters that they then wade-in for “religious” reasons. They are not particularly smart and you definitely don’t want them around at crisis time. They work cheap and have no expectations of a work-life balance. They are a value-add only because they are willing to work 24hrs a day to make-up for their poor overall productivity and efficiency.
What Musk and his Indian sidekick want is cheap, sweatshop labor. That’s what the work visa program has always been about. It has nothing to do with any of these cultures being smarter than americans. It’s about the money. It’s very fashionable in america’s C-suites to talk about importing labor and dumping american workers. Just look at what ATT and Verizon have done in the past few years. They took huge money from Trump I in the form of corporate tax cuts with the promise of big hiring. They have done exactly the opposite and pissed on the american worker. Let’s see what Trump does about it. He should bust their nuts into powder.
Elon is being disingenuous, pretending he doesn’t know the difference between H1b and other visas, and pretending not to know that we know Americans have been getting kicked out of jobs to make room for H1b hires.
Is that why it takes so long to get anything done at a Verizon store?
You must not have worked with quality Indians before.
Very few are in tech.
Simple solution.
Enact legislation that says jobs go to qualified US citizens first, and an employer MUST show to an applicant how they were not qualified for the job vs. a foreign worker. Then put substantial teeth into it’s enforcement for transgressing employers. At the same time, make it illegal to pay a foreigner less than what an American worker would be paid.
Also, at the same time, impose huge tariffs on anything not made in the USA.
DISINCENTIVIZE the purpose of hiring foreigners….which is lower labor costs. At the same time, INCENTIVIZE producing the products here, by off-setting the cheap cost of labor elsewhere with the added cost of importing foreign goods.
And while we’re at it, pass a federal law that says any product sold in the USA must not be any more expensive than it is sold elsewhere in the world.
One last thing….make it illegal for corporations to reenumerate their executives with stock and stock options. They must be paid a salary in cash, same as every other worker employed by the corporation. This includes the Board of Directors. No execptions.
A 1,000 likes!
There are already laws on the books for H1B that are ignored. Only solution is less immigrants. Changing guidelines/rules is worthless as they will be abused and ignored.
A couple things….
Interesting that they are publicly calling for this now, or at all. I thought they were the Department of Government Efficiency. I didn’t know that started with bringing in foreign workers and having government subsidize them.
The other issue is this. They might bring in IT workers, and it might be the most noticeable because of the number needed, but there are many other areas where foreign workers are brought in specifically to replace American workers and lower cost to the company. Lower cost to the company since government is still subsidizing them. Haitians in Springfield, OH come to mind. So do meat packing or processing plants.
There are many examples of workers being replaced because of the cheaper cost. It has NOTHING to do with not being able to find American workers. Disney forcing American IT workers to train their foreign replacements over 90 days in order to collect any severance payment is but one.
The other thing, and whether he meant it to sound that way or not, I don’t care, is the way he suggests our culture is a reason to bring in foreign workers. It won’t take long, and there won’t be an American culture with that attitude.
His type of thinking means he should be able to forever exclude an entire group of people just because of what he thinks of our culture. His way of thinking suggests anyone who grew up on a farm should forever be relegated to farming. Same with someone who grew up where Dad worked as a janitor, and Mom cleaned houses. Or Dad worked digging ditches and Mom waited tables. He is suggesting nobody in America can be exceptional beyond their current station in life.
We just got rid of a bunch of fascists telling Americans to get the booster, mask up alone in your car and all kinds of other BS. We don’t need to be lectured and spoken down to by the likes of him and his little tech bro’s.
“There are many examples of workers being replaced because of the cheaper cost. It has NOTHING to do with not being able to find American workers…”
It is ALL about companies hiring workers as cheaply as possible, in order to maximize profits, including MANY national companies who only offer part time jobs and/or pay minimum wage so as to shuffle the cost of health care onto the taxpayers via Medicaid! Sundance has been warning about the Chamber of Commerce directing legislation to this end for years!!!
“His type of thinking means he should be able to forever exclude an entire group of people just because of what he thinks of our culture.”
The caste system is alive and well in the Indian culture and Vivek just tipped his hand in a BIG way!! Anyone who has interacted with someone whose background is from a culture that still practices “aristocracy” knows exactly what he meant when he said what he did! There are social strata and one stays where one was born – period! It is the exact opposite of what our Founders envisioned and must be stopped in its tracks, IMHO!
They want an unlimited number of H1B visas to replace American white collar workers because … the culture of India is so much better at producing innovation than the USA?? No. Let’ s get real. It’s because they can pay foreign green card workers half of what they can pay an American. Period.
It was fascinating today to watch all of this chatter + never see Japan or South Korea mentioned…
It was like the Computer Revolution began in China + India + the West was the later comer trying to catch up…
If they had thrown in the Japanese, it might have made more sense, because by the end of the 1970s, people were talking about Japan taking the lead in Tech Development + Korea was a little later behind it + not as well-thought of.
It is also fascinating when you consider – Big Tech worked very hard in the 1990s to take China into the 21st century. It wasn’t Chinese Engineers innovating their way to the top. It was – like with manufacturing – Western Industrialists rushing to give China everything that spurred on its development.
Lastly, it was highly curious to consider – all the talk was about 2 leading BRICs Nations + not Japan…
China + India were tapped a few decades ago to be elevated for the new World Order while the US would be knocked down a few pegs.
With both China + India being Socialist nations – unlike Japan or South Korea…
Why invest in S Korea and Japan? They won’t even f*k to keep their civilizations going. That’s pretty bad.
Yuk.
So how are the rest of you innate low IQ Americans here doing tonight?
(Asking for Vic)
I are being ok. How are be you? (drool)
My son worked in the The Apple retail store for many years and finally studied and took the Cisco tests. He studied, he passed first time and was almost immediately promoted into Apple Corporate with a sizable raise.
I think there are many kids out there with a lot of computer saavy and ability. Of course, they are talking about importing highly educated workers? We have the talent and the brain power here.
Plus my boy understands the business from retail on up. That’s valuable experience.
As much as I love this site, I think Sundance is being a little harsh on the DOGE crew. If Space X wasn’t a pure meritocracy, it wouldn’t have achieved what it has. Musk wants H1B workers because there aren’t currently enough Americans to satisfy demand in some technical areas. We absolutely should reform our educational system to increase the number of trained Americans, but even then we should allow the best foreign workers to come also, it’s only in our best interest. After all, WWII might not have ended so well without a few German physicists on our side – ya know?
Musk is talking about apples and oranges, because there are plenty of Americans who can do anything H1b hires can do.
Pay attention Dick.
There is already a process for the best of the best. Don’t buy into the bull that there are not enough American Tech talent. The system is abused to lower wages. Plenty of smart grads that cant get a job let alone an internship. And in the remote chance that there is a shortfall, what happens? Wages go up for workers. Why is this a problem?
My son graduated college and went to work in the Apple retail store. From there he took a Cisco test and was promoted. Even a degree does not necessarily get you a great job at first.
JMO.
Now, for centuries, Americans have had “engineers” of every shape, size, color and degree level.
They successfully built HUGE bridges, damns and skyscrapers and sent Americans to the moon and back and successfully fought and won two World Wars across two oceans.
Those American engineers of yore have achieved much more for America than any of the heralded nerds of the past 3 decades whose main accomplishment has been the creation of some cute “social media” app that was a resource hog and required the unconstitutional traitors in the federal government to steal the taxpayers $$ to support their very inefficient digital infrastructure.
It just so happens that it is in those same past 3 decades that the globalist, nouveau riche settled in California and initiated the first wave of non-agriculture replacements for Americans. These non-agriculture replacements started mainly from India but also came from the far eastern countries.
The globalist, nouveau riche of the so-called silicon-valley became very political savvy, but fell short when it came to understanding and loving America’s Constitutional Republic and its Constitution.
It isn’t a coincidence that the weaponization of the federal government started about 3 decades ago. The first wave of imported “nerds” had no love for America and never bothered to learn the freedoms and liberties engrained in our Constitutional Republic so it didn’t bother them to build systems that trampled on American’s rights and freedoms.
———————
When you argue for Americans to be hired first …… a bedrock of America First policies ……. don’t forget the lesson we learned in the past 30 years ……. when you allow high levels of imported engineers from foreign countries, you are not getting “America First” quality citizens ……. it didn’t happen for the past 30 years and it won’t change in the next 30 years.
It becomes a national security issue as much as illegals pouring across the southern border.
President Trump has mentioned “American college graduates” but I believe he would agree that in the past 30 years, the degree mill for H-1b engineers did not mean they were producing high quality America First citizens. The colleges haven’t been a pro-American environment. He will need to consider that before any agreement is put to paper.
MAGA / America First isn’t just our motto…..it is our duty!
ps Just a reminder ……. it was the same globalist, nouveau riche who settled in California and initiated the first wave of non-agriculture replacements for Americans that gave us today’s State and local governments who have destroyed the state of California that the engineers of yore helped to build.
I agree completely.While I
was in a quality k-12 district, subsided by Dow and their interest in cultivating the next generation of engineers, I still knew that your education is about the effort that you put into it. Never just read the textbook, that’s just a launching point to gaining knowledge, and never let your teachers dictate what is true if all other evidence does not back them up.
It was my last semester as an undergraduate when I saw all the reading and math data for K-12 students over the last decade. I have zero interest in bashing the good folks in the Treehouse who are eductors. Many of you are long term posters and I have valued every comment you made. Now that is said, I wondered why teachers were not jumping off buildings if so many of their pupils never learn to read or do simple math over the years from kindergarten to 12th grade. Making matters even worse, all my non- political professors were fired or inspired to quit and go elsewhere. They happened to be the ones with most scientific rigor.
I am one of the Gen Xers that went back to school later in life after the children were mostly grown and asserting their independence. The then vs now in the educational system was staggering to behold.
I think the first stage was bashing intelligence on the personal and media levels then later trashing the public school system.
One thing that caught my attention a while back is that Elon Musk is planning for one of his foundations to create a new K-12 school in Austin and a few years later a university as well. I have an inkling of what is doing; I recently watched a video talking about how Elon went about learning things. All in all I think he is trying to make education educational again, at least in a small way to start. I may not be happy about this discussion, and the general tone of the discussion board lately, but being really good in one sphere of life does not necessarily mean you would be that positivly impactful in others, like politics or legislation.
In the end, I trust our very stable genius and the rest.. We will have to wait and see and keep planning to mitigate any future disaters. All humans are falable and no one knows everything.
Typing on a tablet sucks. Sorry for the wrong words being substituted and me not catching it in time. Some devices leave a lot to be desired, unlike the computers I have built/put together myself as a hobby.
She has a point, although that is the first Ann Coulter post I have seen in 4 years.
Elon let a ton of conservatives remain in restricted reach mode. X still isn’t free speech for all.
I heard the reason for the H1 visas is due to the fact that China is speeding up their AI development and we need people now who can compete and we don’t have time to train and restructure the schools to compete against China. Further if we lose the AI race, we lose Ametica 🤷🏻♀️
China only steals from us. It has always been India that wanted to take us over. Cheaply too.
There have been about 500 posts from people with direct experience with Indian H1 workers and they have all said the Indians suk.
AI will die an artificial death.
But the parameters will be impeccable.
It is a fact that Indians write crap code. Anyone who has ever dealt with them can tell you that. I’m sure there are exceptions but by and large, they are worse at their IT jobs than their US counterparts.
Thanks Sundance.
Am I surprised. Nope.
What I see as possible outcomes/scenarios
unfolding in near future….are concerning.
🇺🇸 🇺🇸 America First 🇺🇸🇺🇸
Well, the cat is out of the bag.
A lengthier discussion of the can of worms opened by Musk and Ramaswamy.
I hope President Trump gets these two by the scruffs of their necks.
“Daddy” after all is home…and last time I looked, it’s his “house”.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2024-12-26/christmas-conflict-cracks-appear-maga-tech-alliance
From 2016…
I think he forgot about that statement. Trump says a lot of things to get elected, like ‘throw her in jail’.
I love reading that tweet, Betsy, and I want to see more like that now. He campaigned on that in 2016, but in 2024, he wanted to give green cards to any foreign student who graduated from college here. There was such an uproar that his spokesperson had to quickly tap dance and walk it back in a tweet.
I believe there is a double-mindedness in President Trump in this area. He loves championing the forgotten American workers. But as a billionaire businessman, when he rubs elbows with other billionaire businessmen, he starts getting squishy. I got concerned when he had that zoom meeting with all those tech titans, and then started talking about how we were going to have to start importing more workers because of AI.
I really do pray that God would give him more discernment and courage in that area. We need to hear from the same PT that wrote that tweet in 2016 — even if it means that a few tech moguls don’t invite him to their dinner parties anymore.
https://www.businesstoday.in/nri/study/story/donald-trump-wants-to-give-automatic-green-cards-to-foreign-students-but-theres-a-flip-side-434349-2024-06-22
It won’t happen. He took their money. He’ll do what they paid for.
Who convinced President Trump to take corrupt tech billions instead of pushing for the individual $20 donation people? You know, the ones who funded his campaign in 2016?
Hint: it starts with Don and ends with Jr.
Precisely, sis. Someone who Sundance has focused on many times…with cause.
Yes he has.
Who else is he listening to? We really do have to ask.
Exactly!! We have to ask! It’s OUR country dammit. We pay for it, we fight for it. We have every right to know!
The Teamster’s head told Tucker his people choice that leftist labor secretary candidate aqnd pushed Trump to pick her. So it was a favor to them for future support, I guess. Too bad us regular Joes don’t have a union or billions of dollars of influence.
Yes…I agree with you, linderella. On every point.
If I tell you that there is so much about this which bothers me, so much that I am struggling to find adequate words to explain why….
On the one hand we have him standing against AI controlled ports, and then we have his comments on green cards for foreigners who study here in tech studies so we can be a leader in AI. The dichotomy is stark. I am concerned as well.
But I am also extremely concerned (disturbed) by the explosive development of AI, the very focus of globalists and specifically with reference to the goals of godless monsters like WEF “elites” such as Yuval Noah Harari, the WEF mouthpiece who boldly pronounces that “there is no God in the skies”. And who then goes on to speak of merging man with technology, all a part of the ongoing spiritual war.
Like you, I have prayed that God will graciously bestow discernment to President Trump. With this issue, it is already easy to see how forces not in alignment with his agenda have insinuated themselves in positions of influence within his immediate circle.
He’s going to need all the discernment and Fatherly guidance he can get.
Thank you for the link.
Elections have consequnces.
I am with you and and my fellow Americans 100% Sundance. I pray for Trump’s discernment daily and I believe he we see through the madness and stupidity of his rich tech friends very swiftly.
No immigration for 10 years.
You knew I was a snake when you picked me up.
Johnny Rivers – The Snake
The Obama F1 visa extensions gave us the Disney displacement of all its tech workers, severance packages provided only if they trained their replacements.. You can’t find Doctor with English as a first language. Even UPS jumped on that band wagon with their accounting group.. look medical cable and both companies now.. if your doctor didn’t read about it, or big Pharma doesn’t have a pill for it, it’s not a disease you have.. Chances are UPS will not recover from their blunder, after 120 years of exceptional service, they’ve fallen to the Glowbull business model.. Tell me again about the need for foriegn stems workers.. US kids have dreams too and it’s not necessarily in the service sector.. If our kids aren’t qualified it’s cause our educational system has failed them
Their discussions about h1-b visas aren’t dissimilar to the left’s discussions about “our democracy.”
Their problems are the same. They’re talking inside their bubble. Of course they’re not seeing/hearing any other opinions/options.
The problem for us is that PDJT has always spoken in favor of expanding legal immigration, OPT & h1-b visas.
I totally agree with Sundance’s GREAT post!
As much as I wanted to just read the post again and savor the comments, along with a fine cup of coffee, I feel I must add a couple of pennies.
In the mid-late 1980’s, at one of the top universities, in one of the top 3 programs of it’s kind in the US, I regularly received applications to the Masters and Doctoral programs. I never failed to be stunned at the grammatical, spelling, and just plain common sense errors I saw regularly! These people were sincerely dedicated to gaining entry to a highly competitive program! Many of these applications (and later, interviews) would not have made a passing grade in my high school classes!
So, just as Affirmative Action and DEI have damaged our education system here in the US, so, too, has the “everybody gets a trophy so we don’t hurt anyone’s feelings,” movement, right along with the idea of discontinuing number and letter grades, because of… you know… “fairness” and “justice”…!
And, we must NOT forget, or underestimate, the damage caused by filling our classrooms with those who have received little to no prior education or good prenatal or childhood healthcare.
Finally, factor in the infamous Teacher Unions, and you know the story there!
My personal experience (above), was regarding students who graduated from high school in the mid-late 1960’s. Just IMAGINE, if you dare, how much the average standard has fallen!!!
Therefore, we must return sanity to our educational system here in the US! Schools were not meant to be child care facilities or incubators for little snowflakes!
During the 1960’s “Race for Space,” students were tested and funneled toward the classes meeting America’s needs (and their own future employment)! Gifted students were placed in classes allowing them to soar to their abilities.
But, not everyone was herded into college, where they were exposed to the former hippie professors of the 1960’s who filled their minds with Marxism, and low-demand degrees, as they incurred massive student debt! Many took practical courses or became apprentices. They learned banking, plumbing, HVAC, electrical, sales, hair styling, farming, and just about every career you can think of!
That is one of the reasons America led the world in so many fields! Consequently, there weren’t so many people with expensive degrees unable to get a job!
Finally, do I think large corporations will scratch and claw to make a little more profit, even if that means importing foreign workers who will work cheaper and sleep piled in like cord-wood in apartments? YOU BETCHA!
Do I think they should be allowed to hire cheaper, imported labor, over Americans – with all other qualifications and availability equal? ABSOLUTELY NOT if American worker/foreign worker demands are equal!
Sundance said, “What we need are training and recruitment centers for American students.”
I wholeheartedly agree! Because, if we, as a country, do not get common sense sanity restored quickly in our education system, we may be making some very difficult choices in the future. Choices like the design of a jet engine or a military targeting system! Choices with no room for error!
The honeymoon is over. Wasn’t much of one, was it?
I’ve only backed President Trump. And I’m still doing it…
It appears that the people who told us they would create jobs for us and our children, deport all illegals and Make America Great Again want to ram red hot pokers in our asses.