DC Circuit Appeals Panel Hear Oral Arguments from House Lawsuit for Mueller Evidence and McGahn Testimony…

This court case is the background to remove President Trump.  Everything else, including the impeachment effort, is chaff and countermeasures. Conservatives are oblivious.

Today the DC Circuit Court heard oral arguments from House legal subcontractors representing lawmakers, in their attempt to unseal grand jury testimony and documents from the Mueller investigation. [Remember, the subcontracted lawyers were part of Nancy Pelosi’s changed House rules in 2018… These moments were all pre-planned.]

To give further indications of the landscape, U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr sent his weakest constitutional lawyers, Mark Freeman, Justice Department Civil Division Appellate Staff Director, and Deputy Asst Attorney General Hashim Mooppan to face-off against Douglas Letter, U.S. House of Representatives General Counsel, and approximately two dozen House contracted lawyers.

The hearing lasted for an hour and thirty-seven minutes.  [Full Audio Here] The three panel judges are tackling the unprecedented attempt by House lawyers to gain access to the Mueller material.

During one segment of the hearing House Lawyer Douglas Letter discussed the serious possibility of sending armed House officers to the DOJ to engage in a gun battle with the Dept. of Justice if needed. Not joking – serious stuff:

Again, for those who were not paying attention, the creation of an armed House enforcement division was part of Nancy Pelosi’s new House rules in 2018.

Reminder, WARNING from 2018: “Speaker Pelosi is creating her own mini DOJ inside the legislative branch. And, with additional investigative powers granted to House committees, we might even see a mini-FBI units, dispatched to conduct investigations and spy operations, accountable only to speaker Pelosi. Heck, considering congress already has subpoena power, there’s no telling where this might end.”

Democrats together with the alliance of Lawfare operative and their media allies know what this is all about.  Republicans and conservative pundits (writ large)  are oblivious to it; they don’t take it seriously…. keep watching, you’ll see how serious this is… the Tick Tock Club and Trusty Planners will catch up in a few weeks/months.

WASHINGTON DC – […] During back-to-back hearings spanning about three hours, the judges drilled in on the House Judiciary Committee’s dual quests to learn special counsel Robert Mueller’s grand jury secrets and to secure testimony from Don McGahn, Trump’s former top White House lawyer. The two hearings were overseen by two partially overlapping, three-judge panels.

While the judges didn’t announce firm positions in the two cases, their pointed questions for both sides suggested the House had a stronger chance of prevailing in the grand jury records fight, with the outcome more uncertain in the McGahn battle. The two impeachment-related cases, being heard before the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, are on something of a fast track that set them up as the court’s first public business for 2020.

The stakes couldn’t be higher. Trump’s ability to stave off a Senate conviction after last month’s House votes to impeach him is essential to his political survival. But court losses for the president in either or both cases argued Friday will help to keep the impeachment issue alive throughout 2020, while giving House Democrats their own boost in a consequential constitutional showdown with Trump’s Justice Department that ultimately appears headed to the Supreme Court.

“This is it,” Doug Letter, the lead House counsel, argued during the second half of Friday’s proceedings over the Mueller grand jury material. “There is nothing more important than determining whether the president of the United States should remain the president of the United States.”

Letter also argued that Trump shouldn’t rest easy just because the House has already voted to impeach the president over his efforts to pressure Ukraine leaders into investigating his political rivals. How the courts rule in the Democrats’ bid for more testimony and documents connected back to the Mueller probe into 2016 Russian election interference could still yield additional impeachment articles against Trump, he said.

“Yes, that is on the table. There’s no doubt,” Letter said, while also confirming to the judges that his remarks had sign off from House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

The historical significance of Friday’s arguments was apparent in pretty much every exchange before the D.C. Circuit panels, which were composed of two Republican presidential appointees and one judge named by a Democrat. For example, a GOP-appointed judge assigned to both cases, George W. Bush nominee Thomas Griffith, pressed the Justice Department over whether Trump’s blanket refusal to cooperate with House impeachment probes was an unprecedented act of contempt for the legislative branch.

[Judge] Rao seemed to accept that Howell could release the court’s veil of secrecy over the records, but she also suggested that forcing the executive branch to fork them over to Congress raised thornier questions.

That prompted Letter, the House counsel, to repeatedly raise the specter of Congress returning to use of force to enforce its subpoenas — a practice not attempted for nearly a century. But as the House lawyer spoke of the potential for such confrontations leading to violence, it appeared he was highlighting the dangers of such an approach rather than seriously suggesting returning to the coercive methods employed until the 1930s.

“I guess what we would do is use the main remedy the House has had from the beginning, we’ll send the sergeant-at-arms over to the Justice Department. I cannot imagine anyone is going to interfere with him doing his duty as an officer of the House,” Letter said.

When pressed by Rao about what would happen if the Justice Department refused to comply, the House counsel added: “We can send the sergeant-at-arms and he can have a gun battle.” (keep reading)

Unfortunately Douglas Letter is not joking.

The House has a group of dozens of various DOJ and former Obama officials working on their behalf.  That House network also has several currently employed DOJ, FBI, State Department and Intelligence Community officials feeding them information on current real-time events.   The HJC are currently arguing the Mueller material and the McGahn testimony are needed for the impeachment trial of President Trump.

If the HJC team wins the argument to the three member DC Appellate Court, the DOJ will likely file for a full ‘en banc’ review by the entire panel.  If the HJC wins the ‘en banc’ argument the DOJ will likely appeal for an administrative stay by the Supreme Court.

However, if the HJC team loses, they will most likely not file an appeal and will quickly release the impeachment articles to the Senate.   The impeachment articles (Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress) are currently withheld in an effort to bolster the DC appeals court argument.

The primary goal is to gain the Mueller material; by design the impeachment process is a means toward that end.  Impeachment is not the end; impeachment is the means to an end.  Impeachment is the legal standing to exploit the Mueller material. [Background]

 

This entry was posted in 4th Amendment, 6th Amendment, A New America, AG Bill Barr, Big Government, Big Stupid Government, Conspiracy ?, Decepticons, Deep State, Dem Hypocrisy, Dept Of Justice, Donald Trump, Election 2020, Impeachment, Lawfare, Legislation, media bias, Nancy Pelosi, Notorious Liars, Occupy Type Moonbats, President Trump, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

317 Responses to DC Circuit Appeals Panel Hear Oral Arguments from House Lawsuit for Mueller Evidence and McGahn Testimony…

  1. CM-TX says:

    Curse you Barr!
    This is all HIS fault for forcing the release of that Mueller BS Report. It never should’ve seen the light of day– they found NO crime.

    Had he since held anyone RESPONSIBLE for the FRAUD (fully exposed) behind the “Muh Russia” investigation- ANY related “evidence” would be inadmissible.

    Know who your enemies are!

    Liked by 3 people

    • mimbler says:

      Personally, I think the release of the Mueller report helped PDJT, since it showed in graphic detail that they had not a shred of evidence of collusion (not that collusion is even illegal).

      Liked by 9 people

      • Hoop says:

        Agree… and in Congressional testimony, Mueller admits he did not even know who FUSION GPS was…. nice investigative work there Bob.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Wethal says:

        I think Mueller’s pathetic public testimony helped, too. He clearly came across as a figurehead who had little idea of what was in the report he signed.

        After all the hype, the “Muellermas” carols and candles, and the millions spent, the man behind the curtain was a confused old man?

        Liked by 3 people

      • qbtrue says:

        I think it could be a big sting. Trump has done this many times. Get them begging for something and then let them have it. Expose their own criminal acts and potential indictments and criminal charges—wouldn’t you love for them to find their own names still redacted.

        Liked by 2 people

    • Trump2016!! says:

      Actually, this same scenario would be playing out no matter what Barr released or did not release. Come on now, do you think these same class clowns would not be in court in an attempt to get the actual Mueller report? Seriously, you need to be put back on meds.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Mr e-man says:

      I would rather curse the people that sat home in 2018 or voted for Democrats and let Nancy Pelosi take back the House. They ran on a platform of impeaching Trump and removing him from office. What did we expect them to do after they won bigly in the midterms?

      Elections have consequences.

      Liked by 5 people

    • Krashman Von Stinkputin says:

      Know who your enemies are!

      We’ve been hearing this since before Barr was confirmed.
      When is President Trump going to figure any of this out?
      Clueless I guess.

      Like

      • Ray Runge says:

        For .50 cents you can apply for a brain at the local post office

        Liked by 1 person

        • Krashman Von Stinkputin says:

          Why…..when I can simply rely solely on whatever SD and the prophets and psychics here say?

          So Trump DID know his enemy was Barr but appointed him anyway?
          And then lets him stay to cover up so that this “CAN happen to another President again?”

          Why don’t you explain exactly the endgame to THIS master plan…..since you’re the one with the EXPENSIVE brain and I only got mine at the Quik Stop.

          Liked by 1 person

    • What nonsense.

      As long as the Mueller report was kept private, the dims had an axe over Trump’s neck. They had to release it and show the world there was no there there.

      Unsealing Grand Jury testimony would be a near unprecedented abuse of power.

      I say bring it on and fully expose the left and their un-American, evil, vile, disgusting, death-cult ways.

      Like

    • Rigged It says:

      The Mueller report was a cover-up for the crimes of the “Scandal-Free” Obama Admin.
      They Weaponized the Government Against an Incoming President

      #RUSSIAGATE was an international conspiracy perpetuated against @POTUS because they didn’t want to lose POWER. #SPYGATE is #OBAMAGATE
      Mueller covered up the Obama Admin’s crimes:

      Like

  2. Merkin Muffley says:

    Threatening armed violence to get their way? This can’t have possibly went over well with the Judges!

    Liked by 1 person

    • stringplayer55 says:

      In today’s climate where:

      – it is reasonably certain that the FISC were complicit in enabling spying on the Trump campaign and Trump administration,
      -you can be charged and convicted of lying to the FBI even though the FBI agents who interview you say that they do not believe that you lied and the FD302s are manipulated a month later to make the case for lying
      -you can lie repeatedly to the FBI and still have a grand jury say that there is no basis for a criminal case

      all bets are off as to how these jurists will view the threat of violence stemming from a Dem Congress if the violence is directed against a representative of this Republican administration. I think you are elevating the judiciary above the complicity that they have shown themselves capable of.

      Liked by 3 people

    • The Demon Slick says:

      I believe that he thinks that is a persuasive argument. Obviously the ap reporter thinks so. In fact it highlights how out there the house really is. What bothers me is that the feds aren’t questioning the origin of the grand jury material. It’s all fruit of the poisonous tree, but it’s not raised as a defense. Therefore it’s not preserved for appeal. Terrible lawyering. Or corrupt you pick.

      Liked by 3 people

  3. Midnite says:

    If you’re wondering why they want the grand jury material, here’s a example of what you can expect. Now granted this is Buzzfeed, but I’ll assume the rest of the MSM will exhibit the same breathless “Oh My God, Look what we found” attitude as you’ll see in their article on Mueller material released through FOIA action. I can already hear the siren calls for more investigations, more House trials, more subpoenas and more articles of impeachment. These bastards won’t stop until they destroy our President and we won’t stop them until we march on Washington and drag them out in the streets.

    https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jasonleopold/mueller-report-secret-memos-3

    Liked by 2 people

  4. jeans2nd says:

    Judge Rao was our best hope. Sadly, once again we are disappointed.
    But the institution remains intact, long live the institution.
    {{sigh}}

    Like

  5. evergreen says:

    No way the courts can legitimately rule against the president here.

    The House passed Art’s. of Impeachment Their work is done. The Senate takes it from here. If the House says it needs more info, well, that’s moot, because they passed judgment already.

    Secondarily, the House is stating that their imperative is to remove the President. Bordering already on sedition, this informs the Court that the House is outside of its charter from the standpoint of intent. Their powers are within the Impeachment–nothing more here. To take a constitutional question to the Court with an expressed purpose to remove the Executive branch presents (or should) a major problem for the Court to get around. They have to be derelict in their duties in order to allow such a brazen power play to occur.

    Liked by 13 people

    • fanbeav says:

      Amy Berman Jackson who ramrodded Roger Stone didn’t care about all of her “derelict” and unfounded unfairness when it came to Roger Stone. Judges are now activists. Constitution be damned.

      Liked by 7 people

      • evergreen says:

        Which is why SD points to Pelosi creating an armed enforcement branch of the Congress.

        Question: does the sergeant at arms have policing power over only members of congress within congressional properties, or is it a federally chartered, executive branch authorized law enforcement entity? Doubting the latter, and if so, it has no enforcement authority against any citizen of the country and certainly not superior to DOJ. I would envision any sergeant at arms strongarm tactics to get rolled up like any other rogue militia and prosecuted under existing firearms laws in the jurisdiction.

        Liked by 3 people

        • theasdgamer says:

          President Trump should have a squad of Border Patrol in DC at his beck and call to defeat any armed action by the House. President Trump needs a handy loyal force to counter Pelosi.

          Liked by 1 person

        • dd_sc says:

          House and Senate Sergeant at Arms are mandated by House and Senate rules.

          Courts have upheld Congress’ right to hold people in contempt and use the Sergeant at Arms to make arrests. I think the last time was the Tea Pot Dome scandal in the 1920’s. Congress actually arrested a relative (private citizens) of the Attorney General.

          I don’t know if Congress has ever called on the Sergeant at Arms to enforce a subpoena and retrieve documents.

          Like

          • Austin Holdout says:

            Since Sundance pointed out this operation to us, I have been convinced every one of those 2dozen lawyers and Obama holdovers and Pelosi already have the grand jury transcripts. Otherwise they would assume, like the rest of us, that if any crimes had been uncovered by the grand jury, they would have been in Mueller’s report. Why would the Dems be so sure of themselves that there’s something juicy in those transcripts if they didn’t already see them? Or if Weissmann et al hadn’t told them there was something there? They know exactly what they want to use from the grand jury material, but if they don’t go through the hoops to get “official” access, they’ll expose Weissmann et al as the biased leakers they are. If they were wasting their time, Weissmann would have told them so way before now.

            Like

          • Austin Holdout says:

            Can anyone confirm whether actual subpoenas with enforcement power (as opposed to the letters written to sound like subpoenas during the unofficial “impeachment inquiry) were served for the grand jury materials and for McGahn’s testimony?

            Liked by 1 person

        • TANGO268 says:

          The current Sergeant at Arms would resign before carrying out this order.

          Like

    • evergreen says:

      Thirdly, no one is supposed to know what is in the grand jury material. Knowledge by any of the court parties is evidence of illegality. Stating to the court that they are ignorant of any information therein would only prove to the court that obtaining this information would be entirely new knowledge to the House, which means the House cannot have reason to believe there is any relevant material within…leading to lack of cause, case dismissed.

      Liked by 11 people

      • Wethal says:

        Yes, I hope someone makes this argument in the en banc or Supremes (if we get to either.)

        Imagine a judge then asking, “So you DON’T know what’s in this 6(e) grand jury material because it’s sealed, but you DO know that you need it for further investigations?

        In other words, you have no idea what’s there, but you want the Court to approve a fishing expedition without any predication of a particular crime?

        And if you Do think there’s evidence of impeachable offenses in the 6(e), how did you find out about this evidence, given that grand jury records are sealed? Who told you?”

        Liked by 9 people

        • Ellis says:

          Sounds an awful lot like the argument used against Powell in Flynn’s case.

          Like

          • zekness says:

            that’s correct. the difference, as I am certain you are aware, but I want to say it out loud, so there isn’t confusion.

            in the flynn case, he was CHARGED AND CONVICTED of specific crimes.

            there is case law that applies to brady material wrt FLYNN.

            as opposed to POTUS impeachment, which is NOT a criminal law affair and purely a political (joke)….and there IS CASE LAW that clearly shows grand jury materials related to a former special counsel investigation THAT HAS NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH ABUSE OF POWER AND OBSTRUCTION (the TWO articles affirmed in the house).

            I hope the court judge has a much better bigger picture scope on what is going on here.

            I can see this thing (and other aspects of the impeachment process and house actions, namely the whistleblower, schiffftty actions in the intel committee, and the lack of naming house managers and formally sending the articles to the senate) going straight to the supreme court for interpretation….

            Frankly, I am in the camp these matters should be referred to SCOTUS for interpretation and set this matter accordingly..the House failing to follow through on a coup attempt, is not actively managing a constitutional coup.

            we should never allow this to go this far.

            legal suits need to be filed asap….in every single state and every single federal court.

            those suits, should be simply that the HOUSE members have abused its powers and separations of powers…and has manipulated the impeachment process to influence an election. That is is treading literally on the ME!

            I have a response to that….that message requires trigger action.

            I’m fully prepared.

            Liked by 2 people

          • wethal says:

            Her requests were very specific, though, and she admitted in some interviews that she had an inside source telling her exactly what to ask for. She asked for specific documents, emails, and such, including dates.

            Trouble was, Flynn’s first lawyer didn’t have such help, so the prosecution could avoid their Brady obligation and threaten Flynn into a plea.

            Like

            • evergreen says:

              Difference being that Flynn/Powell were defendants and entitled to all information in possession of prosecution which defense could arguably use to mitigate a prosecution.

              In House case, they are the prosecutors seeking information which they do not/cannot know exists; complete upending of the notion of illegal search. They are looking for a crime and simply need unlimited powers to observe. It’s a fraud on its face.

              Like

        • Joemama says:

          Let’s not be silly. They know what is in the Mueller sealed grand jury material, or they wouldn’t be so adamant about fighting to get it.

          Someone within, or the whole Andrew Weissman team, told them what is in it, therefore the whole effort to obtain the sealed records is illegal.

          Like

          • zekness says:

            it’s not even important to know what is in it. It’s the access to the grand jury witnesses they are after….they find something..someone..some things they can manipulate and compel them to start round 2, 3, 4, 5, etc of the impeachment opus.

            it’s all they’ve got..it’s all they desire.

            it would not matter what is in the grand jury material…..leveraging anything that can be stained up and doped up to smear this president and his administration is right in the same play book MO they are still authoring. It’s fictional…but it works to provide the media something to whoo and haaa about…it’s not about proving anything….they aren’t interested in proving anything..

            these people are involved in something more powerful: social engineering made possible by the power of media to spread misinformation, bias and flat out lies.

            remembers…trump won….but we can’t expect the million of voters who lined up for hilary to be any different in their views and choices and pathetic weak minded ideals.

            the left statists dem prog socialists are counting on this and future rounds of misinformation to get those same people motivated to vote against this president.

            that’s the goal.

            they are also doing this to protect their house majority and to enhance their powers…

            it’s time they pay the ultimate price for treason against the nation.

            Liked by 1 person

            • madeline says:

              There should be a legal mechanism for all those questioned by the grand jury to step forward and say they do not want their testimony to be made public and that should be honored. This seems completely unfair to all those that provided paperwork and testimony to be smeared in this way just for Pelosi to effectuate subverting an election. From now on everyone called to participate in a GJ will just plead the 5th, as they should.

              Liked by 1 person

      • Randy says:

        Actually, the House already knows what is in the Grand Jury documents. The law firm they hired were the same lawyers who worked for Mueller.

        Liked by 1 person

    • zekness says:

      yes, well, one has to understand and accept that the house dim’s aren’t going to allow a cease fire..no matter what this court rules..no matter if the senate moves forward right now.

      it’s not in their DNA..it’s not the prime objective….it’s not within their total scorched earth strategy, plainly clear for everyone to see now.

      the house dem’s will continue on the thinest of fictional legal threads to continue to smear this president and his administration. Failing to continue these effort, regardless of its futility, is to signal acceptance of defeat…politically that is suicide for the house dim’s..it’s also about the only way to steal votes and influence the 2020 election.

      of course none of this will work…but it’s the only thing that is keeping this entire faction of coup statists alive…so they would rather go all the way down even though they understand there is no legitimacy….

      speaking with a friend the other day..he seems to have this idea this how all future political battles will be waged in DC.

      the problem, I reminded him, isn’t politics …it’s actual people who are corrupt and reprobate to the rule of law and constitution. THESE people are the problem

      remove them from office by nuking them from orbit.

      it’s the only way to be sure.

      Like

      • evergreen says:

        All of this will be recent history no later than 2024, when Trump is term limited and the Trump administration is over. There is no other to replace him. Thus, at most we have a window before the Party resumes unmolested.

        Like

  6. Somebody's Gramma says:

    WAIT!! WHAT?????? Nancy will send over the Sergeant at Arms to forcefully, like as in a gun fight with the DOJ????? These are the people that want to take your guns, but they want to use guns to force their way upon us. WOW. The hypocrisy is over the top. Please, Nancy, SEND ‘EM OVER!!! My word, this is worse than comical. Talk about abuse of power. It’s just endless. But, we know they are fighting for their very lives. They are scared to death that if they don’t remove Trump, all their corruption is going to be paraded before the American people. It’s too late Nancy, we already know. I’m over here shaking my head at the absurdity of the House democrats. And while you’re at it Nancy, go ahead MAKE OUR DAY and try to confiscate people’s weapons. These people are soooo stupid (and sick) and 100% deluded. What a total waste of our taxpayer dollars. What a waste of space these Democrats are. I pray people continue to wake up to their schemes. We don’t need a Civil War, we need a revolution – an anti-corruption revolution. Vote these people OUT!!!! And while all this nonsense is going on, Trump is calmly taking out the top terrorists. #KAG #TRUMP4EVA

    Liked by 7 people

    • ElGato says:

      Reminds me of the video of Saddam naming politicians as his goons lead them off to their certain deaths. Go ahead, Nancy, let the country see your own version.

      Like

  7. My question for the lawyers would simply be – (a) are these “the Articles of Impeachment,” or not? And (b) given that these articles allege no violation of the United States Code at all, and also seem to have nothing whatever to do with the information that you seek to obtain, why do you need this information? What is Mr. McGahn supposed to know about an already-transcribed conversation with a foreign leader?

    Fundamentally, I actually think that “the Lawfare strategy” has long worn out its welcome. These people don’t care what the law actually says – they only have an agenda. They no longer bother to say that the President committed any actual crime – they only have an agenda. They might well spend the entire next year churning out bills of attainder, one after another, and demanding that the Senate “try” them. They are now making a mockery of the law, the Constitution, and Courts such as this Court of Appeals. Absolutely anything to “get their way.”

    Liked by 11 people

  8. Wutwut says:

    Why are these considered Barr’s weakest constitutional lawyers, and incapable of performing adequately? This seems a pretty large assumption with no factual basis.

    Why are you assuming the HJC lawyers would not immediately appeal if they lost, but instead would bend the knee and the House release the articles to the Senate? This seems a large assumption as well, especially given the opinion in your piece is that the Democrats desire to keep impeachment on the front burner throughout 2020 as well as gain access to said 6e materials.

    Caving would do nothing to accomplish either of these ends.

    Democrats face no immediate political repercussions for holding the articles. The hard left 30% base loves it, the media covers, and their lawyers are able to appeal/raise ongoing issues which the politicians will leverage for ongoing claims of Trump’s “attacks on the constitution.”

    Liked by 3 people

    • theasdgamer says:

      Is there any case law where the President appealed to the SC after an impeachment was rendered to determine if the articles amounted to high crimes and misdemeanors?

      Like

      • WRB says:

        No. We are in uncharted waters.

        Like

      • trumpmemesandreams says:

        Not for a President, no. However two cases that might have relevance:

        1) Powell v. McCormack [395 U.S. 486 (1969)]
        https://www.oyez.org/cases/1968/138
        The House attempted to prevent Rep. Powell from taking his office (Speaker McCormack refused to administer Powell’s oath of office, Powell was refused pay and refused recognition, etc). SCOTUS found the issue justiciable, most importantly.

        The Court held that these actions to EXCLUDE Powell from Congress by fiat were unconstitutional as a mechanism exists to impeach or EXPEL a member from Congress by a 2/3 vote; SCOTUS also found that Congress could not set additional membership criteria beyond those outlined in Article I.

        The direct line to Trump would be that, arguably, process, etc. was not followed and the Articles of Impeachment (such as they are), and POTUS was denied due process which is a feature of every type of law and ‘legal like’ process.

        Additionally that at least one of the underlying charges (obstruction of congress via following a legal appeals process) is simply a non-offense. Abuse of power is a high crime as a number of officials have been impeached on it — but given that in THIS instance with Trump there is no underlying criminal action, nor any element that constitutes an abuse/illegal use of the office, nor any clear benefit to Trump, is it really a ‘high crime?’ It’s clearly not a misdemeanor (ie, ‘normal’ criminal conduct).

        SCOTUS would perhaps at least hear this case… though it’s likely if Trump was both impeached AND convicted they’d hold it as non-justiciable and let it stand.

        2) Nixon v. United States [506 U.S. 224 (1993)]
        https://www.oyez.org/cases/1992/91-740
        Judge Walter Nixon was impeached and removed from office by the Senate via a full Senate vote after a Committee (set up under Rule XI) heard evidence, etc. and released its findings (ultimately recommending removal). Nixon challenged this claiming that Rule XI was unconstitutional (ie, that he should have been able to his trial/evidence/etc before the full Senate, NOT just a Committee).

        In this instance SCOTUS found the issue non-justiciable. They held that the Senate had full authority to conduct its ‘trial’ however it sees fit under their own rules.

        So… ultimately… who knows!

        Like

    • Ockham's Phaser says:

      “Democrats face no immediate political repercussions for holding the articles.”

      How long can Pelosi hold on to them before Democrats start looking really silly, petty and stupid? Another month, Two? Perhaps Barr’s strategy is to exhaust the appeals process, consuming several months in order to test their resolve, expose and embarrass them. The Dem’s drawing It out so far hasn’t really hurt Trump.

      Just a thought

      Like

      • Gary Lacey says:

        There is nothing that says the Turtle couldn’t stall the trial until the election…..kick the can down the road….that would really frost the democrats…..send some to the asylum.

        Like

    • Pokey says:

      Now you are thinking about how our enemies think. Excellent post.

      If we can’t understand how our enemies operate, we will never be able to stop them. This is the primary reason the Republicans have always been impotent in Washington DC.

      Like

  9. Flight93Gal says:

    So IS VSGPDJT ‘s team ( Cippolone, Seculow, Giuliani etc.) meeting with DOJ to discuss the seriousness of this legal coup, the resolution process between the co-equal branches of government and the appropriate next steps to protect the Presidency?

    Or…is the VSGPDJT team resigned to the fact that their best opportunity to protect the Presidency remains with the SC if/when the case moves there?

    If the latter, this may explain why the JV team remains in place to argue against the House Impeachment/Lawfare team.

    Liked by 1 person

    • luke says:

      I’m sure they know Flightgal. DT can see around corners. We shouldn’t get too cocky or take for granted so I understand SD’s concern. I can’t say for certain Team Trump anticipated all of this but I promise you he is now well aware their ploy.

      Liked by 1 person

      • sundance says:

        I can assure you he ain’t.

        Like

        • XD45ACP says:

          I pray to God that you’ve some some channels to get it there.

          Like

        • Dennis Leonard says:

          Well if you have the inside track to all this.Than may I suggest you get this to the POTUS.

          Like

        • luke says:

          I don’t see how Trump could be blindsided as of now. I’m not saying he wasn’t initially. But by now I would be surprised. Even if there’s a treasure trove of information that does not sit favorable to DT in the Mueller chronicles it strikes me as odd they wouldn’t have used it already. It certainly didn’t stop them (Mueller and Co) from using it to arrest people close to Trump for crimes beyond the campaign. I would hope Trump’s team of legal advisors close to him would have figured this out. If not I don’t see how this works out in a positive manner.

          Liked by 1 person

  10. Robert says:

    I think the “trusty planners” as you call us Sundance have got a pretty good handle on this. We are way ahead of the curve.

    Liked by 2 people

    • sundance says:

      So you already knew about this huh?

      Liked by 1 person

      • sunspots7 says:

        Sundance, has the Mueller report “dossier” been their real “insurance policy” all along?

        Like

        • sundance says:

          Yes. The “investigation” of Trump was the insurance policy.

          The Mueller Dossier, an assembly of political opposition research under the guise of legal surveillance authority, is an outcome of that investigation.

          Liked by 3 people

          • sunspots7 says:

            Thanks. You are undoubtedly are quite right that they all have all of it already.

            I’m assuming they already have it packaged in dirty missiles that they will deploy quickly and/or over time. They’ve had many months to construct their arsenal and strategy.

            Disruption, confusion, doubt is their end-goal. They mind-numbed masses will let slide whatever they do after this.

            Like

          • James Groome says:

            I am suspicious of the [“clearing house”] I was reading through some of it and they show emails with redacted material, BUT do not ever show the unredacted emails… they just tell you what is “in it”.
            I am under the belief they are getting unauthorized releases… and even if they are authorized, the people authorizing the releases could be the same ones NOT AUTHORIZING materials which the rest of us are after.

            Like

          • GB Bari says:

            So, the reason the DemonRATS already have all of the oppo research (otherwise known as the “6e material” in the Mueller Dossier, is likely because DemonRATS fabricated most or all of it, as they and/or their cronies did the Steele Dossier?

            Liked by 1 person

          • Bree says:

            Then the Republican party helped by vacating over 40 seats in the house to help Nancy with impeachment.
            Trillions at stake.

            Like

    • WRB says:

      We are way ahead of the curve

      Sure you are. /s

      The reality is that a corrupt, malignant opposition is in a death struggle with POTUS. You can bet one way or the other, but that does not mean you know how it turns out.

      Of course, if you are personally taking steps that change the equation, that is something else.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Austin Holdout says:

        And to make it worse, the malignant ones have all quit their duties in Congress to focus on the struggle and PDJT still has his rather demanding day job.

        Like

  11. MicD says:

    What a great time for the internet to go down world wide.

    Like

  12. markmurraybooks says:

    People still don’t realize that the Dems are back against the wall. They *will* do anything and everything possible to regain power. It’s all out for them because of the amount of corruption that can be uncovered. Serious crap that would send them to jail forever. Loss of billions of dollars, freedom, power, prestige, etc. They *have* to regain power because their only other option is just way too bad for them to contemplate.

    Remember, the end goal is to regain power … they know that they can’t win 2020. So, impeach President Trump to remove him which gives them a much, much easier target to remove … VP Pence. Once VP Pence is gone, it’s all good. Dems back in power. And VP Pence will fall in a matter of weeks, not months or years. I was serious when I said they should have stopped it all before it left the House, and I have never trusted the Senate.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Wethal says:

      If Trump was gone, Pence would immediately nominate a VP, and Mitch would have the Senate confirm the VP. Pelosi would stay in third place.

      If Pence was removed, the new VP would move up to POTUS, quickly nominate a VP, etc.

      As long as Mitch controlled the Senate calendar, the Dems would not bee able to rush through removing both Trump and Pence.

      Liked by 1 person

      • luke says:

        Well it’s not that simple. PDT has the ability to deal with things like political enemies and media in an unconventional method. I am certain his enemies, our enemies salivate over the thought of Pence. PDT must NOT be removed; that is unacceptable.

        Like

        • Wethal says:

          Above was the constitutional procedure for presidential succession – which we’ll probably never have to consult, as the Dems know there would never be 67 votes in the Senate to remove.

          The most they might hope for would be a few RINOs voting to remove, so they could claim “bipartisan” and try to pressure Trump to resign. He wouldn’t of course, but that might be their dream.

          Liked by 1 person

    • luke says:

      Yea you’re correct MMBooks. The left is the very definition of the cliche we were all taught as kids about a “wounded/cornered animal.” If Trump and America continue winning you will see their masks come off and engage in full meltdown mode. As fun as it would seem to some I’m not so sure I look forward to it. But it needs to happens if we are to win without bloodshed in the end.

      Like

    • Ray says:

      Yes don’t forget they censured POTUS with exactly 67 Senators. That was a message.

      Like

    • Austin Holdout says:

      I’m not anti-Pence, but I do believe that if he had to put up with what PDJT puts up with for 2 weeks, he’d be found on the floor of the Oval Office in the fetal position begging someone to swear Pelosi in to replace him.

      Like

  13. Patience says:

    A Roger Stone type knock on the door to Pelosi / Schiff types is a new fantasy
    >Dreams do sometimes come true.

    Like

  14. Lawfare et. al. are engaged in a gigantic circle-jerk that’s going NOWHERE because in the end, they got NOTHING.

    They won’t change public opinion without a real case and there just isn’t one here, there or ANYWHERE.

    Liked by 5 people

    • fanbeav says:

      It is also a smoke screen for their lefty voters who actually think President Trump is being removed from office for not committing a crime! Fundraising will ensure they get him out of office.

      Like

    • Dutchman says:

      It will go to SCOTUS, this “case” just SCREAMS “SCOTUS”.

      And Lawfare never does well in SCOTUS, since their arguments invaribly are counter to the Constitution.

      So, pre-detirmined outcome, but lots of billable hours, I guess? Interesting to follow the $, and see who is financing this rediculous excercise in futility.

      Someone with a,LOT of $, and NO sense, I guess. China, $oro$, ….who knows?

      Liked by 4 people

      • Somebody's Gramma says:

        100% agree with you Dutchman. Follow the money. What’s astounding to me is they don’t think we see them.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Dutchman says:

          Yeah, they have lived in the public eye, and become so contemptuos of people, as in ‘average Americans’; they even think THEIR voters are idiots, and will fall, once again for the manipulated process they ALWAYS use, to betray their leftist base.

          Cept, THIS time, I don’t think its gonna work.

          Liked by 1 person

      • Joemama says:

        The taxpayers are paying for lawfare and the soros NGOs. They have essentially infinite funds to take down the US Republic.

        That is the beauty of the cultural marxist infiltration of our government and legal system (from their standpoint). They are using our wealth to destroy our government.

        Liked by 1 person

  15. Trump train says:

    I beg Christ every night for Trump to call upon us to come to DC and deal with these people people everything they are doing shreds our Constitution

    Like

  16. Gary Lacey says:

    Separation of powers, apparently Pelosi thinks McGahn knows something?!
    Remember the leaks at the WH, the info was altered…….was it leaked McGahn knows something and the House is grabbing at straws

    Liked by 1 person

    • Wethal says:

      Or it could just be that when McGahn came in to testify, he would assert executive privilege and attorney-client privilege to each questions, thus giving Pelosi lots of film for Dem campaign ads. Each question might raise one or more privilege issues.

      Think of when it’s reported that someone “took the Fifth.” “Oohhh, I bet he has something to hide” is a common response, regardless of the constitutional right against self-incrimination.

      Like

      • McGahn testified for 30+ hrs and didn’t invoke executive privilege or plea the Fifth once. No one in the executive suite did. They also gave up every document requested by Mueller, even McGahn’s personal notes. That was the (brilliant) defense against Obstruction. There’s a lot of dirty laundry in that hamper; not illegal but not flattering. And Lawfare wants to mine it for all it’s worth.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Gary Lacey says:

          I was unaware McGahn testified in Mueller’s witch hunt, why would DJT personal Att. be compelled to violate attorney-client privilege?

          I have to ask, what happened to DJT’s rights?

          Like

  17. sarasotosfan says:

    This will not be the last dance, so I understand Barr not engaging his A Team. The Executive Branch will appeal the preordained ruling against them. What is important is they secure a stay and I don’t see this as being withheld.

    Liked by 2 people

  18. Lewis says:

    Since they aren’t sending the articles of impeachment, and since there will be no trial, the articles should be declared unconstitutional as a bill of attainder.

    Like

  19. Joe in Wyo says:

    Is that the same Sargeant of Arms that was tasked with verifying Obama’s birth certificate??
    I’d love to see him or her come forward and try enforce Jack Shit….

    Liked by 1 person

    • Rob Allison says:

      No one was ever tasked with verifying Obama’s birth certificate. Pelosi and others in charge just claimed it was legitimate and no one challenged it. The Republicans, including conservative talk radio and TV hosts, backed away from it and wouldn’t go there. Clearly that was controlled by powers far deeper than we even realize.

      Liked by 1 person

  20. islandpalmtrees says:

    Is “last month’s House vote to impeach” President Trump was it legitimate given that only part of the Socialist Democrats voted for it? And, now we know that even those Socialist Democrats who did vote for the impeachment were blackmailed into supporting the impeachment. See video below for added detail. What are we expected to think when “U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr sent his weakest constitutional lawyers, Mark Freeman, Justice Department Civil Division Appellate Staff Director, and Deputy Asst Attorney General Hashim Mooppan to face-off against Douglas Letter, U.S. House of Representatives General Counsel, and approximately two dozen House contracted lawyers.”

    Just how many past and present members of the CIA have we seen involved in this impeachment, right Barr? When will the CIA be shutdown for what it is?

    Rep. Matt Gaetz: “I Observed Active Threats on the House Floor” That if Democrats Did Not Support Impeachment They Would Get Cut Off (VIDEO)
    by Jim Hoft December 30, 2019

    Liked by 2 people

  21. Magabear says:

    I’m sure the people Barr sent over to counter the lawfare crowd are more than able to hold their own against them. Fact is, the only way we lose either case is due to two or more of the judges being leftists and not giving a damn about the law. Lawfare is on less than shaky legal ground here.

    Lets not fall into the “the left is so smart and we’re so dumb” mindset again. IMHO, lawfare and Co. are grasping at straws now in an attempt to keep shampeachment going for as long as they can. Like a runner, you can run a great race for the first 9 laps, but if you run out of gas heading into the 10th lap, you’re cooked.

    Liked by 4 people

    • theasdgamer says:

      I still think that Pelosi is hoping that the dems take the Senate this year and she will send the articles to the Senate in 2021. Still won’t get a 2/3 vote.

      Like

      • TarsTarkas says:

        It Democrats take Senate in 2020, They will change Senate rules to ensure conviction. Including accepting articles of impeachment from a prior session of congress and articles made up as they go.

        Like

  22. Ellis says:

    This is a joke. Letter should be disbarred for this lunacy. Pure desperation with no hope.

    Like

    • Hebo Sabe says:

      That’s likely why Barr send the chicken squad to deal with the chicken hawks. They slobbered all over themselves.

      Let the rope out before pulling it in. The FED’s another example of this form of strategy.

      Like

  23. Han Solo says:

    How can PT supporters in the party still be ignorant of what’s going on here? I find it hard to believe that our own folks don’t know the left’s game by now.

    The other thing is why isn’t Mitch pushing for a quick trial? Thoughts?

    Like

    • Wethal says:

      He’s trying to stick to the Senate rules used for Clinton, which require the articles be sent over, so he can argue that he wants to be as fair to Trump as the Senate was to Clinton.

      He also has to herd a couple of cats (Collins, Murkowski and Romney), and allow them to put on a a bit of Kabuki public posturing for their voters if the end result is that they stick with the GOP.

      Liked by 2 people

  24. johneb18 says:

    Maybe Barr WANTS this to proceed, get appealed, and end up in SCOTUS where EVERYONE will take notice of it. There’s an instant injunction (which stays the decision) waiting for it. Timing is everything. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  25. mr.piddles says:

    Legal question: Barr has said that Durham’s investigation of the Russia Hoax extends into 2017… which, (perhaps) by extension, would encompass the Mueller appointment as a result of the FBI’s bogus counterintelligence investigation… which, (perhaps) by extension, would encompass the entirety of the Weissman/Mueller Sham… which, (perhaps) by extension, would make any evidence collected by Weissman/Mueller as potential evidence of wrongdoing in Durham’s investigation… which, (perhaps) by extension, would require the Grand Jury testimony to be sealed…

    Yes? No?

    Liked by 1 person

  26. After seeing a picture of a younger, heavier Jerry Nadler, I can’t imagine him any other way

    Like

  27. Cyberfoy says:

    So conservative pundits are clueless, but if Barr is trying to sandbag Trump’s defense with the “weakest” lawyers, then Trump is most clueless of them all isn’t he?

    Liked by 1 person

  28. PatriotKate says:

    I know it seems potentially dire. Yet, I just don’t see how the courts could possibly rule in favor of the House. The secrecy of Ground Jury proceedings and materials and Executive Privilege with respect to McGahn as his lawyer is well established law of the land. I’d find it hard to believe the judges would violate such sacrosanct core principals.

    Liked by 1 person

    • clodfobble says:

      The court can do whatever it wants. Precedent and legality are completely irrelevant. You may adhere to core principals but partisan judges… not so much.

      Like

  29. Danimal28 says:

    As dire as this looks considering how stacked the deck is regarding all the govt employees arrayed against Trump I find myself remembering that he is wily and crazy like a fox and is prepared for this in many ways. Many prayers every night for the man, his Cabinet, and the House Freedom Caucus.

    Like

  30. Troublemaker10 says:

    There isn’t anything in the 6e that does legal damage to Trump. There may be some that does “political damage”.

    The Senate should nip this in the bud and make the court case irrelevant by changing Senate rules, have the House attorneys make their case and Trump team rebuttal …

    then dismiss/acquit impeachment case in days.

    That weakens any case the Dems have for needing 6e (because impeachment trial over with).

    Also, how can Dems make a case they need 6e material for impeachment when they aren’t supposed to know what is even in the 6e material?

    Liked by 2 people

  31. hawkins6 says:

    Kim Strassel presented Bill Barr with her ”2019 Adult of the Year Award” because he has a “willingness to speak truth to power—whether to the press, the boss, or to partisan operators…and…he has kept his promises and his independence.” (I couldn’t read the entire article–no subscription)

    Sundance has not been quite as flattering or reassuring about Bill Barr lately—ie. “U.S. A/G Bill Barr sent his weakest constitutional lawyers, Mark Freeman…and…Hashim Mooppan to face-off against Douglas Letter, U.S. House of Representatives General Counsel, and approximately two dozen House contracted lawyers.”

    I respect the opinions of both of the above, so I guess it will take time to learn with certainty which comment is the most accurate mini depiction of Barr’s most important efforts. Sundance’s comment hits a powerful Hot Button that invokes anger while Kim’s praise has a calming effect.

    Liked by 1 person

    • “Sundance has not been quite as flattering or reassuring about Bill Barr lately—ie. “U.S. A/G Bill Barr sent his weakest constitutional lawyers, Mark Freeman…and…Hashim Mooppan to face-off against Douglas Letter, U.S. House of Representatives General Counsel, and approximately two dozen House contracted lawyers.””

      Sundance didn’t actually write this article, nor those particular words that you noted; it was written by Politco authors, Darren Sameulsohn, Josh Gerstein and Kyle Cheney. Although I didn’t see where he attributed it to them, I’m sure that somewhere, it’s noted. I’m simply curious why sundance chose Politico as his go-to source, to provide information to us here. If I wanted Politico’s opinion, I’d just subscribe to it.

      Agree with you that Kim Strassel is a very level-headed, and intelligent author.

      Like

  32. joebkonobi says:

    I do not understand why House Republicans and Administration lawyers are not pushing to get the transcripts that Schiff refuses to release to anyone. Supposedly IG Atkinson’s transcript completely exonerates Trump and exposes the false predicate of the impeachment (leakblower) to have been illegally obtained. Why can’t republicans go to court to get those transcripts? If nothing else it would make dismissal in the Senate pretty much certain.

    The other question is why isn’t Barr investigating Ukraine corruption which would expose the democrats attempt to hide it by impeaching POTUS? Last interview I heard, he said he had not even thought about Ukraine. He could be lying to keep investigative cover but I would feel better knowing.

    Bottom line, there just doesn’t seem to be the urgency or aggressiveness on the part of the DOJ (Barr), the Senate, the Administration and House Republicans.

    Liked by 1 person

    • ezgoer says:

      Barr is a fraud. He would never have been allowed to be confirmed as AG if he was an honest AG who would investigate and prosecute the criminals in the DOJ. FBI and administrative state. The verdict of the DC appeals Court is certain to go against Trump — 7-4 Democrat appointed judges. It will all be up to SCOTUS. But i wouldn’t bet on Justice Roberts to save the Constitution. He’s a weasel.

      Like

  33. clodfobble says:

    Does ANYBODY still trust the so called “legal” system of justice in the US anymore?

    Like

  34. jus wundrin says:

    Unelected contractors threatening unelected bureaucrats with violence while the elected types cheer them on, or sit on their hands.

    You just cant make this stuff up.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Pokey says:

    There will never be an end to this because one of our two major political parties is working to eliminate Our Constitutional Government and they have the complete support of the bureaucracies of Our Government.

    Whoever shouts the loudest wins.

    fubar.

    Like

  36. YvonneMarie says:

    Nancy Pelosi belongs in a jail or in a nut house.
    Okay ?

    Like

  37. Don says:

    Trump HAS TO GO….. WHO will fight for him?
    The LEFTISTS WILL PULL OUT ALL STOPS to avoid a trump reelection… They have to or SCOTUS ISGONE FOR THEM for at least 20 years… Corrupted DOJ and intel agencies overthrowing Trump in 2020 is worth everything to them….the PROMISED THIS the day after trump won…..
    McConnell HOLDS THE KEYS…. THE NUMBER ONE QUESTION …… How hard will HE FIGHT FOR TRUMP?
    He could easily go full blown senate…. Drag this out into summer conventions…….but will he ?

    Like

  38. Austin Holdout says:

    Since Sundance pointed out this operation to us, I have been convinced every one of those 2dozen lawyers and Obama holdovers and Pelosi already have the grand jury transcripts. Otherwise they would assume, like the rest of us, that if any crimes had been uncovered by the grand jury, they would have been in Mueller’s report. Why would the Dems be so sure of themselves that there’s something juicy in those transcripts if they didn’t already see them? Or if Weissmann et al hadn’t told them there was something there? They know exactly what they want to use from the grand jury material, but if they don’t go through the hoops to get “official” access, they’ll expose Weissmann et al as the biased leakers they are. If they were wasting their time, Weissmann would have told them so way before now.

    Like

  39. Austin Holdout says:

    DOJ Attorney Mark Freeman: 2003 Harvard Law Grad. Clerked for 1st Federal Circuit Court. Started career at DOJ. Currently Director of Civil Appellate Law Division at DOJ. Has argued 75 cases in appellate courts and SCOTUS.

    DOJ Attorney
    Hashim Mooppan: Harvard Undergrad and law. Partner specializing in appellate practice at Jones Day in DC. (Same form Don McGhan and about a dozen other Trump Admin appointees came from). Clerked for Justice Scalia . Joined DOJ after Trump elected. Has argued in appellate courts and SCOTUS on issues including immigration, DACA deportations and travel ban on behalf of Trump Admin.

    One article indicated Freeman argued to the Court today that the need for 6e material has not increased due to impeachment-it has lessened because both articles of impeachment are based on events that took place after the Mueller investigation. That was a brief snippet of the argument.

    Just FYI. I don’t have any idea how these credentials stack up against other DOJ lawyers.

    Liked by 1 person

  40. Rynn69 says:

    I honestly don’t think any of these ruthless machinations by a group of evil-to-the-core lawyers and politicians will matter one iota to the American people. They are operating in an echo chamber. And the hand of God is on this.

    However, AG Bill Barr better realize how all of these stunts wear away at the American people’s faith in key institutions and the very fabric of our Nation.

    Like

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