Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting Update – Defense Attorney Files Motion To Compel CCTV Video Release…

Dallas, Texas  — Clinton Broden of the Dallas based criminal defense firm Broden, Mickelsen, Helms & Snipes, LLP. announced that a hearing has been set on the City of McLennan’s motion to quash  the subpoena he issued to Twin Peaks for its surveillance video of the events of May 17, 2015.

Waco Shooting

The hearing is set before District Judge Matt Johnson in the 54th District Court at 9:00 am on Tuesday, June 30, 2015.  Presumably a hearing will also be held at the same time on Broden’s motion to sanction the City Attorney’s Office for filing the frivolous motion to quash in the first place.

Broden continued to express bewilderment that the City of Waco believes it has the authority to stop the production of a video that is owned by the Twin Peaks franchisee and which the franchisee is ready, able and willing to produce.  “Everybody needs to understand that this video is the property of the Twin Peaks franchisee.  It is not the property of the City of Waco, theWaco Police or McLennan county.  It is private property,” said Broden.

Broden explained that the video is needed so that his client, Matt Clendennen, can establish his innocence at an upcoming probable cause hearing.  “It is a complete denial of due process to allow the district attorney’s office to come into court and make allegations of what is on the video without producing the video,” said Broden.

“It would be like having a probable cause hearing in a bank robbery case and the prosecutor coming to court and saying ‘that’s your client on the video, just trust us’ and then not produce the video,” Broden continued.

clendennen“People need to understand that Matt Clendennen is innocent and for those who believe that all the bikers went to Twin Peaks that day anticipating violence, I remind people that Matt passed a polygraph wherein he truthfully answered ‘no’ to the question of whether he went to Twin Peaks onMay 17th anticipating any violence.  According to polygraph standards from John Hopkins University, there is less than a one percent chance that Matt did not answer that question truthfully on the polygraph,” announced Broden.

The police in this case have denied the public transparency based on the claim that it is necessary to keep the video secret in order to conduct its investigation.  Broden called this claim, “absurd in the United States”  Broden first questioned how police could justify 177 arrests in the first place without having done a full investigation.  “In this country we investigate first and arrest second,” said Broden  More importantly, however, Broden questioned why police departments from around the country release videos despite ongoing investigations.

Broden pointed to the recent release by the Boston Police Department of a restaurant surveillance video of a police shooting in the Usaamah Rahim case.  That video was made public within just a few days of the shooting.  “Contrary to the story that the Waco Police Chief Stroman is trying to sell, this is not the usual procedure.

It is not the usual procedure for the police to hold multiple press conferences the day of an incident and announce several untruths during those conference and then refuse to release the contemporaneous recording of the event with a few days to a week,” explained Broden.

Broden also questioned why, in the current day and age, there are no cell phone videos of the incident from citizens and explained that he had been given information from at least one innocent bystander that the police rounded up private citizens’ cell phones to keep the videos suppressed. (link)

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This entry was posted in 1st Amendment, 4th Amendment, 6th Amendment, A New America, Abusive Cops, Agitprop, Conspiracy ?, media bias, Notorious Liars, Police action, Political correctness/cultural marxism, Professional Idiots, propaganda, Waco - Twin Peaks. Bookmark the permalink.

105 Responses to Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting Update – Defense Attorney Files Motion To Compel CCTV Video Release…

  1. True Colors says:

    Slight correction. The article says “City of McLennan.” There is no such thing.

    The city of Waco is located in McLennan County.

    TC

    Like

  2. Stormy says:

    The plot thickens.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Nation says:

    What a nightmare.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. manickernel says:

    I doubt the video will absolve the bikers as a whole, but it is looking more and more likely that it will indict the police in some way.

    Liked by 7 people

    • Les says:

      It will be good for people to base arguments on fact and truth after they see the video instead of arguing over made-up “facts”. I know I think a few people are nuts because of this topic.

      Shame on the cops for covering up the video in the first place.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Rojas says:

      I think we agree that each individual is entitled to due process. It is their birthright. To the extent that the civil rights generation has turned their back on this cause, the human wreckage is all around us.

      The authorities in Waco are treating probable cause like it is a revealed religion. That cannot stand. It is an insult to every Texan and to all Americans who are not mentally subnormal.

      Note the pleading below. It states that Twin Peaks attorney has reviewed the video evidence as it relates to the individual who the state has taken his most precious possession and that the evidence does not support the states claims.

      “The subpoena was issued on behalf of Matthew Alan Clendennen. The subpoena is necessary and material to assist him at his examining trial set in this case as well as a motion to amend his bond conditions. Mr. Clendennen’s counsel, F. Clinton Broden, had previously discussed the contents of the video with the attorney representing the Waco Twin Peaks franchisee, Patrick Keating, and was told that the video is consistent with Mr. Clendennen’s defense that he did not participate in nor encourage any violence on May 17, 2015 at Twin Peaks.1 The video would therefore support Mr. Clendennen’s argument
      that there is no probable cause in his case and that he should not be held on restrictive bond conditions.”

      http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Response+to+motion+to+quash.pdf

      Like

      • lovely says:

        You are misunderstanding if you think that the video has to show Clendennen acting violently on the video for the video to support the States claim.

        Like

        • Rojas says:

          Two points.

          The State has alleged that Clendennen did “commit or conspired to commit murder, capital murder or aggravated assault against the laws of the state of Texas”.

          Patrick Keating, the attorney representing the Waco Twin Peaks franchisee, has viewed the video evidence. He has stated that the evidence is consistent with Mr. Clendennen’s defense that he “did not participate in” (COMMMIT) “nor encourage” (CONSPIRE) any violence on May 17, 2015 at Twin Peaks Keating’s statement covers both elements of the State’s claim.

          Second point.
          And this goes to the “revealed religion” point I made above.
          In the prior thread you made the statement that you believed that the videos did not contain exculpatory evidence and that it under their purview of the State to suppress them from Defense.

          You do realize in the unlikely event that the state comes up with some smoking gun that all 177individuals did “conspire to commit murder, capital murder or aggravated assault against the laws of the state of Texas” that the state is required to turn over any mitigating evidence under Brady. The MMA goes even further and the state is required to turn over any “Favorable” evidence.

          Like

          • lovely says:

            “Or” is the important word in the charge, there is no way that this video can prove that anyone did not “conspire” to commit anything. The DA is claiming that the precipitating violent acts (and even potential acts) that the Cossacks and Bandidos were involved in the recent past are part of the evidence that led LE to believe that this meeting at TP may be a crescendo of those events. Because Clendennen is a Scimitar, support group for the Cossacks, he is being piggy backed in with the Cossacks.

            Keating’s statement does not cover the conspire aspect of the charge.

            As to your second point I have already addressed it in a previous post with a link to the Brady rule and to the Michael Morton act.

            A defense attorney had a great summation of it but I don’t have time to find it at the moment.

            Here is a different link for it

            http://www.tdcaa.com/journal/dawn-new-discovery-rules

            The State is under the obligation to release all information “favorable to the defense” immediately upon being made aware of the evidence. there is no way al 177 folks are on the video(s). That does not mean if they are not on the video that they get to walk away.

            The case is far more complicated than that.

            Because of the EOCA charge that the State does not even have to prove prior knowledge of a planned confrontation for each and every of the 177 arrested to found guilty of the crime to “conspire”.

            In for a little in for the whole.

            We may bristle at that but it is the law in Texas.

            Like

            • Just Sayin says:

              The trouble with your comment, lovely, is that it is NOT for the state to unilaterally decide what evidence does or does not support which claim or defense.

              Relevant evidence is evidence that has ANY tendency to make a fact that is of consequence to the issues in the proceeding more probably true or less probably true than it would be without the evidence.

              It is not up to the state to make that call. And when the state tries to make the call or thinks they should be the ones to make that call, it makes me think they’re hiding something important.

              Like

              • lovely says:

                Actually the State does unilaterally make the decision (hopefully guided by discovery law) until it is petitioned by the defense or until a court demands otherwise. Some evidence the State has no choice but to turn over immediately when it is found, such as exculpatory evidence or evidence favorable to the defense.

                Like

            • Rojas says:

              First Point,

              You have now idea what the DA is claiming in regards to this individual.
              We have only seen the same fill in the blank affidavit submitted by the police that was used for everyone.

              A probable cause hearing has been scheduled and we may learn at that point some of the evidence that the DA believes establishes probable cause. They may simply drop the case, or the Judge may trow it out.

              Clendennen has made a public statement regarding his actions that day. That statement can be used against him or for impeachment of testimony at trial.
              He has also submitted to a polygraph examination about his actions and intent on the date in question. (Polygraph results can be considered by a magistrate in Texas in the determination of probable cause.)
              An independent, officer of the court, has stated that the objective evidence supports Clendennens position that he did not participate in” (COMMMIT) “nor encourage” (CONSPIRE) any violence on May 17, 2015 at Twin Peaks.
              The video cannot see into his mind, but depending on quality, much can be inferred by his behavior in regards to any alleged conspiracy.

              Second point.

              Do you have a cite to any Texas case that supports the following?

              “Because of the EOCA charge that the State does not even have to prove prior knowledge of a planned confrontation for each and every of the 177 arrested to found guilty of the crime to “conspire”.”

              The must prove an intent of both the individual and the alleged group.

              “Given the statutory definition and the court’s interpretation, section 71.02(a) requires proof of two different mens rea—that of the accused and that
              of the group—a dual intent requirement. Munoz, 29 S.W.3d at 208.”

              Like

              • lovely says:

                I do have an idea what the DA is charging Clendennen with, I read the fill in the blank affidavit.

                Do you have a cite to any Texas case that supports the following?

                Sure I’ll find the applicable laws for you tomorrow. Long day today and I’m not up to going through notes.

                But it really is a simple Texas Law if you are in for a part, you are in for the whole, what appears to be happening here is the DA is going to claim there would be no capstone if there were no building blocks.

                (Polygraph results can be considered by a magistrate in Texas in the determination of probable cause.)

                Asking the court to accept an “independent” polygraph by a lie detector selected by the attorney of the defendant might face a little magisterial skepticism.

                Intent is for the moment being defined as being a member of a criminal organization, I am sure that the cell phones are being scoured as diligently and quickly as possible. What is the criteria that the State used to categorize some biker clubs as criminal organizations? That I don’t know. What I do know is the State is making the simple claim that everyone who is a member of a criminal organization is a criminal.

                The Cossacks were not at least until May 17th as far as I know declared a criminal organization, let alone their support group the Scimitars, I think Broden will argue this point rather vigorously for his client.

                The must prove an intent of both the individual and the alleged group

                The State says that intent is apparent 1) The individual had intent to participate in whatever criminal activity was participated in by the group by choosing to be a member of a criminal organization 2) the bikers are members of a criminal organization, the organization intended to have a confrontation with another criminal organization.

                I am only articulating the States case not arguing for it.

                The question for me is what gives the State the power to declare an entire group a criminal organization.

                Like

            • Rojas says:

              Lovely wrote

              “As to your second point I have already addressed it in a previous post with a link to the Brady rule and to the Michael Morton act.”

              My response to the other thread.
              June 27, 2015 at 11:45 am
              Lovely I believe you have misinterpreted that article from the defense about the Michael Morton Act. You have misconstrued the article to the point of turning the clear meaning on its head.

              One of the reasons the MMA was passed is because certain Texas DAs were using unscrupulous negation tactics in the discovery process. They were playing hide the ball and lets make a deal forcing Defense attorneys to disclose witness lists and other trial strategies (Privileged information) as a condition of releasing exculpatory evidence.

              I suggest you read it again
              “The prosecution burden of proof is a high one and it should not be eased by requiring a roadmap produced by the defense through the pretrial disclosure of defense strategy, nor by requiring the release of privileged information just so the defense can obtain Brady evidence.”

              Liked by 1 person

              • lovely says:

                Thanks I read it and reread it and I still agree with the defense attorney’s interpretation of the Michael Morton Act which is as I explained it. All evidence is not legally demanded to be immediately turned over to the defense, evidence which is favorable to the defense is legally demanded to be turned over to the defense immediately.

                Evidence that will compromise an active investigation and is not favorable to the defense does not need to be immediately turned over to the defense.

                Like

                • pspsst says:

                  Evidence that will compromise an active investigation and is not favorable to the defense does not need to be immediately turned over to the defense.

                  STRONGLY doubt the TP video has anything incriminating to Clendenman’s defense. We have already been told by A.P. what is in the video. They’ve seen it. The biker also took the polygraph test and it matters not whether it can be used or not as evidence for the defendant. The key is at 99% proof Broden knows the polygraph will be matched by the TP video. I’ll link the A.P. video description in response to Rojas since it is less nested for legibility.

                  Like

              • pspsst says:

                As refresher for everyone, as mentioned to Lovely, described by A.P.

                “Before the shooting begins, the inside of the restaurant appears to be mostly empty. Bikers and other patrons can be seen walking to the windows facing the parking lot where most of the shooting happened.

                When gunfire erupts at 12:24 p.m., most bikers, other patrons and staff immediately run away from the windows and into the restaurant’s interior. At least three people can be seen holding handguns.

                One camera angle shows bikers running into the men’s bathroom. When there’s no space left in the bathroom, they dash toward the kitchen.

                Another camera angle, on the far side of the restaurant from the gunfire, shows patrons who are not wearing biker gear crawling behind tables toward the kitchen. At least three bikers appear to be gesturing for the patrons to crawl to safety.

                None of the nine video angles shows the parking lot.

                Only one angle, taken from inside a back office in the restaurant, had audio. At 12:24 p.m., a woman is heard screaming, “Oh my God!” That’s followed by multiple cries of “Get back!” Two minutes later, three gunshots are heard. It’s not clear who fired.

                Video shows police with assault rifles entering the front door at about the same time. As two officers enter, bikers can be seen lying on the floor with their hands spread.”

                Above bold emphasis is mine to highlight how simultaneoulsy LE had entered TP from the patio outside while a woman in the office hears “multiple cries of “Get back!” before 3 gunshots. Certainly Clendemman is not any of the 3 holding a gun, nor with injuries.

                The assertion that the video is damning to the defendant and hence being withheld is ludicrous based on already knowing in advance what it shows wrt said defendant, sorry. If any party is fearing indictment from video evidence it would be the LEs involved.

                Like

    • I agree, it will probably not absolve all of them, but the fact that they arrested 177 with virtually no evidence would lead me to believe that the release of the video will lead to probably 160+ exonerations. And my rule is that anytime the state wants to prevent or refuses to release a video it almost ALWAYS shows them screwing up in BIG ways. There are simply too few examples of the opposite to make a reasonable case.

      Furthermore the city really doesn’t have standing to prevent the release. I have read about no judicial gag orders so the restaurant is free to release the video to whomever they want. I would venture to say they asked for a subpoena as a legal protection for themselves.

      In short, the city is both wrong and will lose, the defense unquestionably has the right to the video. The DA doesn’t get to just say he is on the tape and it is a fact..

      Like

      • Just Sayin says:

        Arrested 177 without even completing their investigation! That’s the justification for witholding the video evidence.

        Like

  5. John Galt says:

    “It is a complete denial of due process to allow the district attorney’s office to come into court and make allegations of what is on the video without producing the video”

    Denial of due process has been the objective from day one.

    Liked by 4 people

  6. 1hear2learn says:

    This story seems to have gone quiet so was happy to see this post. Do we know how many are still in jail and/or if they have all had bond hearings yet?

    Liked by 1 person

  7. a, says:

    Waco has a long, long history of violence….ask the survivors of the Branch Davidian group about the fire intentionally set, and the snipers picking off the people fleeing from the flames. In Texas, even the Vice President can get away with shooting people while drunk. I expected nothing less than a cover-up, but am upset that the cover-up has been performed so badly. Waco is not living up to its reputation, and those who are involved in this fiasco should be fired for incompetence, because they don’t do a good job….of…covering up!

    Like

    • Les says:

      There was a 51-day siege at Mount Carmel, most of it filmed by multiple news organizations. I kinda doubt the cult members are giving an accurate account. The bikers may have a bit of a credibility problem, too. Because they spent so much time developing the “outlaw” identity, I guess. Sucks when it comes back to bite you in the…

      And don’t forget this headline: “Waco siege survivor claims David Koresh slept with children”

      Liked by 2 people

      • annastinaa says:

        “Because they spent so much time developing the ‘outlaw’ identity” … WHO spent so much time doing that?

        Hollywood, that’s who. That it became taken with the Sonny Bargers of the world and have been captivated by “colorful biker lore” ever since, has zip to do with American bikers and all to do with their “credibility problem.”

        Speaking of headlines — remember the headlines on 9-11-2013 that accompanied news footage and photos of the river of thundering motorcycles, most of them bedecked with American flags, streaming through the nation’s capitol, that said: “Thousands of bikers converge on Washington, D.C.” — remember them?

        Thousands, well, yeah, you could say that was true, technically …. the actual numbers they buried in the stories if they included them at all, were 800,000 to 1.2 million bikers.

        Somebody’s got a credibility problem, but it ain’t bikers.

        Like

        • Les says:

          Q: “Because they spent so much time developing the ‘outlaw’ identity” … WHO spent so much time doing that?

          A:

          Maybe I’m too literal (well, figurative, I guess), maybe the 1% badge and the machete and the pistol are giving me the wrong idea. Maybe, just maybe, they were designed to do just that.

          Oh, and Frito Bandido isn’t smiling.

          Liked by 1 person

          • oldiadguy says:

            Here are some more scary, evil patches. These groups also created scary and violent identities.

            http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=JN.XO1%2bFpWmWqa37MuOFSI8jQ&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

            Les, it is not the patch or the supposed identify the bikers allegedly created. It is about their actions. At this time, the Waco authorities are heavy on rhetoric and light on actual evidence. Since the Waco authorities have been caught in multiple false statements, it is incumbent on them to prove their claims. Remember, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

            Take Care

            Liked by 1 person

            • pspsst says:

              That is interesting. Thank you! I personally am spooked by Halloween costumes but those patches certainly broadcast “Don’t Mess with Me” on the same level as the AMA back in the day.

              During the 1940’s and 1950’s, at rallies and gatherings sponsored by the AMA, prizes were awarded for nicest club uniform, prettiest motorcycle, and so forth. Some clubs, however, rejected the clean-cut image and adopted the “one percenter” moniker, even going so far as to create a diamond (rhombus) shaped patch labeled “1%” to wear on their vests as a badge of honor.

              http://bikersofamerica.blogspot.ca/2011/03/1er-defined-one-percenters-gangs-and.html

              The AMA arose in the 1950s, the time of KKK where non-whites were not allowed in their “official” biker organization.

              As with the normal population, or perhaps higher, the returning military had difficulty post-antisemitic war in Europe justifying their participation in the exclusive AMA club, and so they rebelled. I’d be medicated for a while too returning from seeing the devastation to human life and combat brothers. Some veered off to drugs, it was 1950 to 1960s – period of overall exponential increase in availability and use of drugs in America at every level.

              There was a sacrifice by America and it wasn’t only at the life or death level.

              The Bandidos is listed as Tier II “street gang” but the said reference states the Bandidos are underground, never get caught, but wear their patches proudly, assist with charities and now only recruit bikers with no criminal histories (for some unknown subversive reason I guess because it’s easier to turn a member in good standing to hostile activities).

              Like

              • oldiadguy says:

                “The Bandidos is listed as Tier II “street gang” but the said reference states the Bandidos are underground, never get caught, but wear their patches proudly, assist with charities and now only recruit bikers with no criminal histories (for some unknown subversive reason I guess because it’s easier to turn a member in good standing to hostile activities).”

                Doesn’t make a lot of sense does it. Yet the government does not have to show cause for the Tier II designation. Either all levels of government are incredibly incompetent at catching criminals or their is another reason for the designation.

                It is a shame that many Treepers don’t understand how dangerous it is for government to be able to just declare an individual or groups of individuals outlaws or Tier II criminal without proof.

                Liked by 2 people

                • Les says:

                  You cut the Crips as much slack? They are same tier IIRC…

                  Nobody is missing any point as some of you are wont to imply. I simply do not agree. I think the wannabe Bandidos were playing with fire and got burned. Anybody with any sense can see that. It is a separate issue from concealed carry and due process.

                  I think some are being intentionally obtuse because these folks are white. If it were Black Bike Week, y’all would be singing a different story.

                  Like

                • pspsst says:

                  Au contraire, Oldiadguy saw both sides as did many others. He did not pick a side until there was further discussion and data that clarified. That you accuse him on this type of meandering and baseless affront is telling. Your manner of griping and calling others names constitutes irrational discourse which puts your credibility in question. You merely make it worse each time. As for taking a position based racism which is your accusation which you brought up yourself – the question lies in your concern that if LE did wrong then they will be suspect in Freddy Gray and Mike Brown. Every situation is different and you choose not to recognize that the LEs here were a group in advance planning vs LEs out in the streets.

                  Like

                • pspsst says:

                  By the way, The Bloods are noted on Tier II document as being bloody and violent.

                  Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  The Crips were set up as a criminal enterprise from the beginning. Crips rarely have outside jobs and it is rare to find a member of the Crips that does not have an arrest record.

                  Most of the individuals that were arrested by the Waco PD did not have arrest records and had jobs. A number of the Bandido chapters have been involved in raising money for charity. Name a Crips gang that has done this. Bandido members havebeen involved in positive activities that have been recognized with awards by a number of governmental entities. Again name a Crip gang that has received a legitimate civic award.

                  If all it takes to be added to the government’s list of criminal gangs is for some members of the larger body to be involved in an organized criminal activity, then there a sizeable number of police departments that could fall under that definition. By the way, I have heard and read statements from members of the same police departments brag in jest, that they belong to the biggest, badest gang in town. Are the other members of the larger organization guilty for the sins of a few?

                  Les, I am not unaware that individual members of various MC were involved in criminal activity at Twin Peaks. Crimes were committed, but crimes are committed by individuals and not loosely defined gangs. Until such time a governmental agency proves in a court of law, that each and every member of the Bandidos, the Cossacks or any other “outlaw” MC is involved in a specific crime(s), they should be considered individuals and are innocent until proven guilty.

                  Please don’t start telling me about the organized crime charges for which the bikers were arrested. Please think outside the box for a moment. Once a person is arrested, what can the authorities now do that they could not do when the person was not under arrest? Please think carefully about this question. I believe you will then understand why the Waco authorities may have decided to make mass arrests.

                  Take Care

                  Liked by 1 person

            • lovely says:

              Oldiaguy while I agree on your larger point that it is certainly not solely about the patch but rather behavior, I think there is a larger point.

              The reason the organizations chose the patches that you have included in your post is for their “tough look” for lack of a more pointed descriptor. The people who wear those patches can lawfully kill other people, they are people who are charged with protecting other people. Their patch is supposed to be intimidating and they don’t pretend anything else about it.

              So I think comparing the Bandidos patch to the Special OP’s patch kind of reinforces that the Bandidos were sending a message with their patches. They can’t simultaneously say we wear 1 % er patches, Expect No Mercy patches and the like and then say are patches are without meaning. Does wearing a patch mean they are bad men, no, but the these patches in particular are not given away like stuffed animals tossed by bikers at a Toys-for -Tots parade, their patches have meaning. they can’t deny that, and they can’t deny as a club there is a stated universal meaning of those patches within the clubs bylaws.

              There are loads of more intimidating looking patches than the Bandidos patch but in this case as agued by the State, it is not about the “scariness” of the patch but rather the criminal organization that the said patch ties the wearer to.

              Like

            • art tart says:

              oldiadguy shared ~ “Since the Waco authorities have been caught in multiple false statements, it is incumbent on them to prove their claims.”

              I think you are exactly right, I have a level of distrust starting w/Swanton/ending w/the DA. In LE’s rush to get ahead of the blow back, they created the doubt/distrust of many across America have in their Office by their repeated mistakes in interviews.. imo, When the Chief finally crawled out from under his rock, he knew he had public relation problems in the media but it was too late, the damage had been done.

              I enjoyed the patches you shared, I LOVED the painted white skulls on the American combat vehicles in American Sniper.

              Liked by 1 person

              • oldiadguy says:

                Thank you. I am trying to make a larger point, unfortunately some here keep missing it. When “The State” can declare a group of individuals a criminal street gang or a criminal organization without providing proof of their criminality, we are on a very slippery sloop.

                Who will “The State” declare a criminal group tomorrow?

                The NRA for promoting gun crimes and violence?

                The Church for promoting anti gay hate crimes?

                The Tea Party for promoting crimes against the government?

                Or even the CTH for committing thought crimes?

                Some will think this is impossible. Really? Think where we were 7 years ago. Think about what has happened since then.

                This incident has red flags all over it. Some of these issues have been discussed here, but many have not.

                Here are some questions.

                Who had the DUTY to keep the peace at the Twin Peaks Location?

                Was the peace maintained?

                If the peace was breached, what was the response of those whose Duty was to keep the peace?

                Was their response to the breach of the peace a normal response or was it an extraordinary response?

                If the response was extraordinary, then the question was why?

                Please think outside the box.

                Take Care

                Liked by 3 people

                • annastinaa says:

                  Well said. Identifying allies and enemies by way of insignia is how the military operates. Identifying criminals by their individual acts is how lawmen operate.

                  The Waco arrests signify a profound transition from police acting as law men versus law breakers, to police acting as soldiers versus an opposition’s soldiers.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Rojas says:

                  In Harris County more police officers are indicted each year on felony charges than Bandidos.

                  And I am very aware of the attempt during the 90s of painting every self described Patriot as a terrorism suspect.

                  Like

                • pspsst says:

                  Who equated Patriot Riders to the Bandidos?! Commenters spoke about bikers as a group being targeted, for example, all 177 and 5 MCs charged without due process, rounded up as street gang criminals. Les, you really need to step back and stop jumping all over the map,here and there, losing track. Ben Chambers was a meth dealer too. He wasn’t a Bandido. Meth dealing is not exclusive domain of bikers. 8 Bandidos caught does not conflate to 5 MCs, mom and pops, wannabes, the entire universe of bikers!

                  Like

                • pspsst says:

                  In your second link:

                  2012 – “Through his attorney, Heath claims to have joined the Bandidos in the past five years. He did so, his attorney explained, for “friendship and company” but has since been kicked out of the club due to his drug use.”

                  Liked by 1 person

                • pspsst says:

                  Correction, fourth link, not second. They were glommed together. Will check out the other links soon.

                  Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  According to the article, the government estimates that there are only 2000 members of the Bandidos. The indictment only lists 8 individuals not 2000. They have been indicted, not yet convicted.

                  Many of the Bandidos are former members of the military. Red and gold are Marine Corp colors. Some of their alleged support groups are also Marine Corp related. I’m sorry you feel ill, but it is what it is.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • pspsst says:

                  Okay, the “reporter” for the third link tries to suggest the Bandidos are “white supremacists” among other things. He concludes with:

                  The irony is sweet: A gang whose very existence is based on white supremacy depends on Mexicans to make money. Next thing you know, people like Grandpa Castleberry will be flying the Mexican flag on Cinco de Mayo.

                  The very opposite is true as outlined earlier.

                  Les, have you read your links or are you throwing material out en masse and hoping one sticks?

                  Like

                • pspsst says:

                  Yes, it’s becoming clearer something seriously and dangerous underfoot is going on with the assistance of third party players. Knowing that the Bandidos of today are recruiting or allowing memberships for those without criminal records must worry the feds. I’m starting to wonder if the COCI meeting was “moved” because Waco LE were the willing participants in a bikers shake-down? Be interesting to talk to the organizers as to who put that idea forward. It might not be anything. Waco has a willing history.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • lovely says:

                  On this we agree and that is the biggest problem IMO with this case. What is the criteria that the State uses to declare an organization “criminal” my best guess is that it is unconstitutionally fluid.

                  I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, it looks to me that the EOCA is a no win charge for anyone who happens to get caught in the net. Attorneys have a name for charges like this, it is the same name they use for Federal Immunity “F* Me” Sorry for the crudeness but that is what this stuff is referred to as.

                  I’ll say it yet again, I am pleased to see Broden doing battle.

                  Articulating the States case does not mean that I condone it.

                  Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  Lovely, I am glad that you are starting to see some of the points I have been trying to make. I disagree about how easy it will be for the Waco Authorities to make an organized case against many of the individuals they arrested in this case. I was going to direct you to specific data in the redacted Waco police reports that were received pursuant to a FOIA request, however, I can’t as the reports have apparently been removed from Scribd. Interesting that.

                  RICO or organized crime type investigations are long drawn out affairs. There is great deal of investigation that is conducted before any arrests. Specific crimes and targets identified. The location of possible evidence and its relevance to the case confirmed. The higher ups, the actual targets for the organized crime charge identified and the path to their eventual indictment planned. This is done prior to going to a grand jury for an indictment.

                  That was not the case here. After the dust settled and the WA found that they had nine dead and over two dozen injured, the WA made the decision to conduct mass arrests based apparently on the apparel of the individuals at the scene and the fact the individuals showed up at a scheduled public event. After making the arrests, the WA are now conducting their investigation to justify those arrests. In short, the WA put the cart before the horse.

                  Since this is going to be a long narrow reply, I’m going to start a new comment at the bottom of this thread.

                  Liked by 1 person

            • Les says:

              You’re preaching to the choir with that one.

              Why can’t adults just admit ONCE that the Bandidos is a biker GANG that projects an outlaw image? Why? It doesn’t change the truth when people point out the obvious or behave rudely (not you IAD).

              I can admit obvious truth without it conflicting with the procedural problems in this case.

              I shake my head that people would rather lie and misrepresent than just admit a simple truth. Another group does that often and y’all give them hell for it… (We all, I do it, too.)

              Like

          • pspsst says:

            Barack Obama fixes his hair nice, has his leather shoes shined nice, drinks from a porcelain cup, smiles a lot especially in those selfies.

            Like

          • annastinaa says:

            Compared to oldiaguy’s examples, the Bandido could be a high school mascot, if you’re okay with pistols.

            I don’t know much about Bandidos, but maybe their criminality is exaggerated. I do know that of the 27 guys whose property was seized, the worst arrest and conviction records were with the Bandidos. Maybe they’re trying to go straight. Maybe the charges were 20 years old, who knows.

            All I really know is it’s a club. A brotherhood. One of thousands. “Biker lore” is so colorful — that one percent patch, scary, say “experts.” Maybe it’s scary to the “experts,” but for me, I think it’s just a patch in a brotherhood. The lawman’s job is to catch bad criminals..

            The Military’s job is to arrest insignia.

            Like

      • Rojas says:

        How about this headline “There wasn’t much Dying going on there before the Feds showed up”

        Judith Vinson is a Texas rancher.
        https://www.lewrockwell.com/2000/06/judith-vinson/stringing-the-devils-hatband/

        Like

        • Les says:

          They had 51 days to release the children. Almost two months to let those kids live. They didn’t let the kids out.

          There was child abuse going on before the Feds showed up. And there was massive

          I don’t put my own freedom and rights above those of children. The way children are cared for and nurtured sets my personal standard for evaluating people and groups of people. If you do wrong by kids, I don’t agree with you automatically.

          The Branch Davidians didn’t allow the ATF to enter with a search warrant. That is what started the siege. If they would have complied, they could have lived to fight about whether they were illegally selling machine guns or not.

          Even if it makes you made as hell, a gov’t entity has the right to enter your premises if they have a search warrant. The Constitution is clear about unreasonable search and seizure and probable cause warrants. You can blame the UPS guy for reporting the loonies, but you can’t really blame the gov’t for checking it out in a post-Murrah Building world.

          Like

          • Les says:

            *gun dealing by unlicensed dealers. (left that part out)

            Like

          • Rojas says:

            Les,
            The ATF fabricated evidence of a drug lab and submitted it to Joint Task Force Six so the could obtain Close quarters combat/close quarters battle training from the United States Army.
            Around ninety of those guys assaulted that place and not a damned one of them knew who fired first, when, where or why. If they did, they were not willing to swear to it in court.
            They had no regard for those children. They were on Zee Big One hoping to make a big splash before budget hearings.
            Whatever child abuse was alleged to have taken place at the hand of Koresh it simply pales in comparison to what actually was brought to them by our government in our name.

            Liked by 2 people

            • Les says:

              Waco is a hard situation because BOTH parties did wrong things.

              I don’t blame the gov’t for this as much because it shouldn’t have happened. The gov’t had a search warrant. Should they have just driven away from the compound? It’s the same principle as not arresting thugs for crimes because they don’t want to be arrested. Why not just let them check?

              I’m one (of the few, it appears) that believes the Davidians set those fires. They were running out of food and supplies and Koresh was in bad shape. They wanted to die rather than allow a search. They were a doomsday cult. Still no excuse not to let the kids go.

              I’m wary of religious extremists because of Warren Jeffs and other similar situations. I don’t think Christians should align themselves with these cults. They aren’t the same religion in my mind. Extremists of any sort are dangerous, both in our gov’t and in our citizenry.

              We have to be better at choosing our alliances and drawing our lines in the sand. I think our authorities have to stop lying to us. I don’t agree with everything the gov’t did in that siege, but I know it wouldn’t have happened if the cult members weren’t brainwashed and if they would have just let the authorities search. A court is a better battleground than a cemetery. (Used to be, anyhow, not so sure our court system works too well nowadays.)

              Like

              • pspsst says:

                Not “both parties did wrong”. That sidesteps and distorts the issue. Two wrongs do not make it right. An intentional wrong by LEs, Law Enforcement (emphasis) does not equate to civilian wrong.

                Like

    • DallasMatt says:

      Killeen Lubys – not Town of Waco; Branch Davidians – ATF, FBI, Justice Dept – not Town of Waco; Dick Cheney quail hunting near King Ranch – 400 miles south of Waco; Charles Whitman – in Austin. Obviously you are from Opa laca or some similar place in relative proximity to Waco. Maybe 1 in McClennan county, but sowhat? Looks to me like sheriff’s deputies shot several innocents on the screened porch.

      Like

    • Rojas says:

      As it relates to the current fiasco I believe this historical footnote is more pertinent.

      The day after the failed ATF assault on Mt. Carmel the ATF started their shooting review. Three agents were interviewed and it was determined that their stories didn’t add up. At this point Bill Johnston Assistant United States Attorney was consulted. Johnston advised the ATF to stop the review because they were creating Brady material. Brady material is evidence that might tend to prove the innocence of those the Government had besieged.

      For those of us that grew up in the south such behavior from a AUSA seems quite an aberration. DOJ used to dispatch AUSA to local jurisdictions to oversee investigations to make sure the evidence was preserved and civil rights respected. They were the guys with the white hats, or so we naively believed.

      “When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.”

      At the congressional hearings the memo leaked out about the actions of the United States Attorney. Clinton’s DOJ defended his actions. “Prosecution 101” they called it. It was an outrageous defense. The prosecutor’s tenant it to seek justice. Bill Johnston engaged in a conspiracy to violate the civil rights of the residents of Mt Carmel Center.

      Bill Johnston was the only government employee sanctioned by the Danforth commission. Not for trampling the rights of the besieged (that was a-ok in Danforths view), but for withholding a few pages of his notes Those pages related to his knowledge that HRT leader Rodgers had his wreaking crew use incendiary CS gas in the assault that was not an assault on the home of the Branch Davidians.

      The fact that Johnston had also withheld this evidence from the defense attorneys who represented the surviving Davidians at the criminal trial was not a cause for sanction from blind senator Danforth and his commission to put perfume on the pig. Arson was an element at the criminal trial and the fact that HRT had used incendiary rounds was damn sure Brady.

      When it was announced that Johnston would face felony charges quite a few prominent Waco citizens came to his defense. Of particular interest here is Judge Walter S. Smith.

      Walter Smith is set to preside over Matthew Alan Clendennen’s deprivation of civil rights under the color of law suite against the city of Waco. For that reason alone I don’t think the suit stands a chance in hell.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Les says:

        The final report does state they fired the flash grenades. They still do not think that is what started the fire.

        I can’t rely on the survivor statements because they all thought David Koresh was God. That kinda takes the cult members out of the equation for me.

        They could have released the kids when the fires started, but they didn’t.

        Frontline has a decent summary of the events written well after the fact after all the data had been analyzed:
        Did the CS gas harm any of the people, especially the twenty-two children, inside the compound?

        According to medical examiners who performed the autopsies, CS gas did not directly kill any of the more than 80 Branch Davidians, including 22 children, who died in the fire on April 19. Nor did anyone perish from inhalation of CS gas–or its byproduct from a fire, cyanide–the medical examiners told FRONTLINE. Other experts have told FRONTLINE that CS gas may have totally incapacitated the children and others so that when the fire occurred, it would have rendered them incapable of escape. It should be noted that Mount Carmel had not been gassed preceding the last hour of the fire. Experts also noted that CS gas only has a persistence factor of about ten minutes.

        Why did the tear gas fail to roust the Branch Davidians out of the compound?

        FBI agents and various experts who are familiar with the events at Waco have suggested several reasons why the CS gas did not roust the Branch Davidians out of their compound. For one thing, the adult Branch Davidians had gas masks. Holes that the FBI’s armored vehicles punched in the walls of the compound to insert the gas also allowed the high winds on that day to disperse it. And, for many of Koresh’s followers inside the compound, fleeing the compound and deserting him would have amounted to renouncing their religious faith; many apparently chose to stay. Furthermore, the thirty-mile winds gusting to 31 miles per hour caused the gas to quickly dissipate and FBI listening devices showed that the gas seemed to have little effect on the adult occupants during the six hour assault. All the adults had gas masks with filters, which the FBI believed would last up to 48 hours. FRONTLINE has learned that is why the FBI’s initial plan called for incremental gassing over a 48 hour period.

        Who started the fire that erupted a little more than six hours after the FBI began inserting the tear gas on April 19?

        Although several of the surviving Branch Davidians insist that they did not start the fire, a panel of arson investigators concluded that the Davidians were responsible for igniting it, simultaneously, in at least three different areas of the compound. Unless they were deliberatley set, the probability of the three fires starting almost simultaneously was highly unlikely, according to fire experts. Furthermore, the videotapes show the use of accelerants that strongly increased the spread of the fire. Although one Branch Davidian stated that a FBI tank had tipped over a lantern, videotapes show that the tank had struck the building a minute and a half before the fire began. Also some of the surviving Davidians’ clothing showed evidence of lighter fluid and other accelerants. In addition, FBI listening devices seemed to establish that the Davidians were overheard making statements such as, “Spread the fuel,” some six hours before the fires began. (Joint Hearing of the Crime Subcommittee July 1995.)

        That won’t change anybody’s mind if they have already dug in their heels. I know this.

        Like

        • Rojas says:

          Les,, if you can stop pulling the wool over your own eyes for a moment, you might consider an alternate course of events.

          What if, on or about day three or four of the siege, the DOJ had announced that the two ATF commanders responsible for the assault were arrested for lying to a federal agent? Do you think that might have altered the course of events?

          If the Army officers assigned by JTF6 to assist the ATF, who knew they were being conned and complained up official channels to their superiors, what if they had broke ranks and told the press. Would Rodger’s HRT have still got their tanks? I don’t think Wesley Clark would have touched that potato with a ten foot pole.

          Liked by 1 person

      • art tart says:

        Rojas shared ~ “Walter Smith is set to preside over Matthew Alan Clendennen’s deprivation of civil rights under the color of law suite against the city of Waco. For that reason alone I don’t think the suit stands a chance in hell.” *

        Rojas, thanks for refreshing my memory on some of the points of the Branch Davidians. I remember when it happened but had forgotten a lot of the information.

        This connection of Walter Smith really suks for Matthew Alan Clendennen’s.

        Liked by 1 person

  8. liberty2828 says:

    There are 7 bikers still in the McLennan County Jail. Of those 7, 3 still have $1M bonds.
    Pilkington was denied a bond reduction, not sure why but I have been trying to research it. The police obviously wanted to get them out quickly without public hearings where they had to put out too much information.

    What a mess for these people that will take a long time to resolve. Really unbelievable.

    Bail bond, ankle monitor companies see bonanza from biker arrests

    “I think it is important to remember that every day someone is on a GPS bracelet, we are saving McLennan County in round figures about $60 a day,” Marroquin said. “That’s money the taxpayers aren’t having to pay for the cost of someone being in jail. That is a tremendous savings to the McLennan County taxpayers.”

    Of those freed bikers, 123 were ordered to wear GPS ankle bracelets, installed and monitored by Recovery Healthcare, as a condition of their releases.

    http://www.wacotrib.com/news/courts_and_trials/bail-bond-ankle-monitor-companies-see-bonanza-from-biker-arrests/article_3c90f890-895d-5c69-a04d-0e5f58990b9d.html

    Liked by 1 person

    • art tart says:

      liberty2828 ~ (love your avatar!) Thanks for the information shared, I had wondered how many were actually left in jail for various reasons. This is a passionate case, a lot of passions on both sides of the argument..

      I really enjoyed the last thread w/the information on impounded trucks/bikes/suvs. Glad to see lien holders got their properties back & didn’t suffer repercussions because their property was impounded. I too was glad to see that the impounded property wouldn’t be the big pay day LE thought it would be.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Rojas says:

        Art about lien holders and Texas asset forfeiture laws.
        I had made this reply to you in the previous thread. I don’t know if you saw it.

        The vehicle is seized subject to the forfeiture proceeding lien holder or not.
        The lien holder is protected but they have to provide an affirmative defense.

        “The statutory safe harbor is an affirmative defense. You must plead “innocent owner” as an affirmative defense, meaning that you will have to take some responsibility for proving your status. You should also consider discussing with your lawyer filing a “motion to return” property or a motion to replevy, pre-trial, especially in the case of vehicles. Part of this part of the process is that you must be prepared to post the bond required in order to have possession of the property during the time when the forfeiture lawsuit is pending.”

        http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-innocent-owner-defense-in-texas-asset-forfeiture-cases

        Liked by 1 person

        • art tart says:

          hi Rojas ~ I didn’t see your link to me before, but thanks for sharing it with me again. I am going to read it right after I posted this to you, I didn’t want you to think I ignored you, am just getting in this evening.

          Rojas shared ~ “The lien holder is protected but they have to provide an affirmative defense.”

          Rojas ~ are you saying the biker must provide an “affirmative defense” or the lien holder does? For whatever reason, I had envisioned the lien holders picked up the bikes/suv’s/trucks since the payments would not likely be made if the driver of the property wasn’t already in arrears, they would be since they had Attorney’s fees now… I never considered there was a second part to it.

          Off to read your link, I’m always happy to learn new information, thanks for sharing.

          Like

        • art tart says:

          Rojas ~ I read your link, informative. imo, it seems the lien holders that have their proof are in good shape such as titles/financing records, etc.. No doubt it’s a pain in the butt to lien holders since they were innocent when they financed the property, had to pay an attorney to represent their interest in getting their property back.

          Thanks again. LOL, I would have missed this whole legal step.

          Like

    • Emily Litella says:

      Judge Matt Johnson denied a bond reduction for Pilkington on June 10.

      https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/10/waco-twin-peaks-shooting-update-one-bandido-bond-reduction-approved-one-denied/

      Loosely reported is that he has “at least” four felonies “against him” in Limestone and Ellis Counties.

      More specific (as tweeted during the hearing by @TSpoonFeed of the Waco Tribune) is that he has a pending case in Limestone County for stalking, a pending case in Limestone County for Assault/Family Violence, and a pending case (county not specified but not listed w/McLennan Co. charges) for possession of a prohibited substance in a correctional facility.

      There is an existing protective order against him that covers a woman and a child.

      He was already out on bond on his other pending charges when he was arrested in Waco. He was characterized by the prosecutor at the bond hearing as “violent” and a “known user of methamphetamine.”

      Like

      • liberty2828 says:

        Thanks for the reply.

        Other bikers arrested also had other convictions and pending charges… they were released on lesser bonds. I did much additional research and several of the charges may be related to a very messy and public separation from his wife. Often these types of charges are “used” to separate parents from their children and bolster a divorce proceeding. Maybe warranted or maybe not.

        He was in a terrible motorcycle accident in 2012, hit the rear of a van that was stopped and turning. Suffered massive injuries, including brain damage. Anger and drug use can be common in brain damage. Wife left with their 3 children during his recovery and it could have been for good reasons.

        He rode into Twin Peaks as a member the “B” group prior to the first shot. It will be interesting if he was involved in the shooting or not. Just a human interest story… not trying to convict anyone. That he is still in Jail with a $1M bond is a curious fact, plus that any prior or pending issues are not listed on the McLennan County Jail inmate list and others were or are listed.

        Liked by 1 person

  9. pspsst says:

    Must have been embarrassing for Texas LEs (is some functionary worried bikers are meeting?):

    More harassment of 53 MCs in Texas at the scene of a Veterans of Foreign Wars post where Bandidos were presenting a check for Alzheimer’s at a meeting planned weeks in advance

    H/T https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/06/04/1849/

    EL PASO, Texas – The Texas Department of Public safety said they were conducting an operation at 7190 Cananea Ln. Wednesday evening.

    Like

    • Les says:

      Wonder if they picked up a little meth in Juarez while they were down there?

      Liked by 1 person

      • pspsst says:

        If you can prove it but you can’t with what’s called a broad ugly brush.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Les says:

          You could easily google Bandidos and meth and you would see a long history of drug dealing and bringing meth over the border. All of the newer Bandido members could also google it. They know there are some bad things going on with some members of the group and they knew before they joined. I didn’t say they ALL do it, but I’m not going to lie to people and pretend I don’t know about it. It’s irresponsible to do that and I’m not willing to lie to try to make people agree with me, especially people I don’t know. I have personal ethical standards.

          Some of you pretended the Bandidos were like Patriot Riders in previous posts. There seems to be some disconnect or lack of basic understanding between patriotic riders whose main function is to honor our service members and allow them to be laid to rest in peace versus an organization that portrays themselves as a motorcycle mafia. I’m not saying this is intentional, but now that it has clearly pointed out.

          To intelligently represent Constitutional issues, we have to be willing to present facts honestly. The Bandidos is an outlaw motorcycle gang. They present themselves that way and law enforcement see them that way. Do they deserve due process and speedy processing through the legal system? Yes. Should they be assumed automatically guilty or at fault? No. Should we pretend they are ALL 100% innocent? NO WAY.

          We can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater. Be honest and reasonable and more people will agree. Try to p*ss on my leg and tell me it’s raining and I will not agree. I’m not easily led.

          Like

          • pspsst says:

            A whole lot of misinformation there, one wouldn’t know where to start. You completely miss the simple logic – two wrongs don’t make it right. As for p*ss, you said it, you own it, no one can convince you so go get your towel because it’ll be raining lots where your mind lives.

            Like

  10. pspsst says:

    Witness at TP who knew Mohawk:

    https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/06/22/the-eye-witness-testimonies-that-implicate-the-waco-police-department/

    1st off, I’m a veteran of the US Army, and damn proud…I was a volunteer EMT and Firefighter in Burnet county and Travis county. I left my job with the city of Austin to go to work as a contractor in Iraq, as my army said I was to old and overweight to reenlist.

    I made sure that our soldiers had hot showers, and flush toilets at FOB Falcon Iraq. I also was in charge of septic type cleanups when necessary. I also checked each water entry point on post 2x daily to make sure we weren’t being poisoned. I was there to take care of our kids…..I was injured a couple times…I’ve had 2 surgeries to try and repair my ankle…..shrapnel pulled out of my back….and 4 years of therapy for my PTSD, TBI, ADHA and whatever other letters they tried to tack on…..My motorcycle is what kept me alive when I got home….I could ride, catch wind…it’s where I found peace…I joined BACA…that was awesome, then moved into the Big Kids world by joining an MC…I was part of the Texas Defenders before it became the US Defenders….and damn proud of it. Now our Club, ——-, out of the ——– area was only approved this year…we didn’t get our patches sewn on until Feb…..lol…we got Soldiers, Marines, and a few that have the same soul as us….5 of our 7 members went to the UCOA meeting in Waco….

    I saw my friend Mohawk and went and showed respect and then hugged his neck……I found out that he had been killed after I got out of jail……..anyway, we are at the front door, fixing to go get me some damned potato skins when we heard a ruckus from around the corner….well….I saw no guns pulled…no knives…just folks walking towards the ruckus….then we heard pop pop pop….small arms fire, maybe a 9mm……then I heard the sound of bigger badder weapons….not handguns….during the first pop pop pop, that was mine and my Clubs signal to get the hell away from the boom booms…..as I said earlier, I have PTSD, and don’t care for gunfire that’s not at a gun range….we hauled ass around the back of the building and that’s when we saw LE coming in from every direction….they did not have their duty weapons out, they had what looked like weapons I trained on in the Army and saw soldiers carry in Iraq. Cop running towards us, with weapons pointed towards us yelling get down…..I did an immediate belly flop….I looked up to see a friend of mine that had been shot in the stomach, and it damn sure didn’t look like a 9mm injury……anyway…y’all all know what happened next….we were herded like animals….ordered to hit the ground a couple more times..yada yada.

    I lost my job at ——-

    https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/06/22/the-eye-witness-testimonies-that-implicate-the-waco-police-department/

    More eye witnesses

    Note, the Scimitar eyewitness who passed his polygraph at 99% matches the Bandido witnesses. They all said they knew of no plot to capital murder at the CoCI TP event.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. RJ says:

    Lets’ see if I get this right: Bad boy bikers have a certain look, not the least of which are those patches and facial hair images, along with tattoos, rings, etc. Undercover cops must at least look like these types, along with speaking their biker anti-social jargon so that real “motorcycle club made members” will be fooled into thinking these guys are one of them.

    Police departments have for the past 15 plus years focused their recruitment efforts on returning veterans due to the skills learned via our military. Most police departments send up advertising videos highlighting their SWAT sections, neo-military operations. Note how many SWAT cops have their faces hidden behind masks.

    Ever since those bad guys went crazy years ago in California, shooting up anything that said “police” with automatic weapons, our federal government has been giving military grade weapons and equipment to local police departments around the country along with all kinds of policing advice.

    When one hears the word “transparency” used today, that just might mean the exact opposite, especially if used by “government” people when they are “selling” something, some idea, etc. to others (read the citizen).

    “We can’t release any information other than what has already been given to the press due to the ongoing investigation” is SOP (standard operating procedure) by governing authorities, right after this line “we’ll release the name of the deceased after we locate the next of kin” in most deadly encounters where the police have played an active role.

    Note the issues in Baltimore via their efforts to suppress information while going after those six cops. Everybody wants to hide his/her side of the facts prior to showing up in court while a public relations team goes about “selling” one side of the story. Today’s rules for playing the game!

    Colin Powell had a doctrine of using “overwhelming force” against an enemy while leading our military. Has this idea been adopted by our local police?

    If you smell a rat, do you then say “my senses are not working?” I smell a rat in this Twin Peaks showdown…I smell the cops may have had more to do with the ruckus than perhaps the bikers ever intended.

    I smell another “Waco” incident where government started a fire. We’ll see, perhaps right after the Bo Bergdahl court martial…perhaps in my lifetime…if I’m lucky enough to live that long!

    Liked by 1 person

  12. dizzymissl says:

    I remember when this happened, I kept asking where all the cell phone videos and photos were.

    Very disappointed this is happening in TX.

    Like

  13. Father Thyme says:

    Attorney Broden’s suggestion that the Twin Peaks franchise was willing to release the video is suspect considering how quickly TP contacted the DA’s office once they got their subpoena

    Like

    • liberty2828 says:

      Actually, the Subpoena date was June 22. Legally Twin Peaks would want to ask their attorneys for direction, so they notified Waco PD of the suppoena on the 25th. They had agreed as long as a 3rd party did not object.

      Dallas, TX — Submit Press Release 123 – On June 22, 2015, the District Clerk for McLennan County issued a subpoena for production of the video taken by the Waco Twin Peaks restaurant on May 17, 2015. The subpoena was issued at the request of F. Clinton Broden of the Dallas based criminal defense firm Broden, Mickelsen, Helms & Snipes LLP. Broden requested the video to prepare for a probable cause hearing set for his client Matthew Alan Clendennen.

      Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/pr/2597054#ixzz3eO04lRag

      Like

      • Father Thyme says:

        Presenting the Twin Peaks franchise as ‘willing’ to provide the tape is just nonsense. If they were ‘willing’ to do so, a court order wouldn’t have been needed to get them to comply. Likewise, no phone call to the DA’s office would have been made once the court order to turn over the tape was served.

        I give the defense attorney credit for trying to get his hands on a key piece of evidence but it is highly unlikely the subpoena will withstand the DA’s motion to squash it.

        Liked by 1 person

        • liberty2828 says:

          I believe that Twin Peaks was told/asked to refrain from disclosing it (or risk liability) after they let AP see it and caused an uproar. Then TP said to others that they wouldn’t disclose it again due to the investigation. Everything… everything is legal liability and risk…everything! They were willing if subpoenaed as they would protect themselves. It will be interesting to see what happens on Tuesday morning. Swanton actually said when asked to release it that it did not belong to the Waco PD and they only had a copy so Twin Peaks as owner, would have to release it. I am still searching for that quote. Now they are saying something different about having the recording, equipment, etc. It is a digital copy so yes TP still has it. I believe that Broden knows what he is doing and is a champion as far as I am concerned. Keep in mind that legal doesn’t mean right or fair… just what the law determines. You may be right and we will see what legal means as far as the Judge.

          Like

  14. Alfred E. Neuman says:

    Reblogged this on The Lynler Report.

    Like

  15. lovely says:

    I tried to post this before but I think I have figured out why it is going to WP purgatory and changed a couple of words.

    Remember the ludicrousness of LE taping Ali’s monitor screen in the JC’s case? Remember how folks said confiscate the tape itself, it is evidence? Well I think it is obvious that LE confiscated the tape(s) and from what I have read TP no longer has its own physical copy of the tape(s) because it is evidence.

    I read TP referred to as a third party in one of the articles about the upcoming hearing. It is my understanding (according to Broden) that TP has given permission for the release of the tape but TP no longer has the tape so now legally TP is a third party (as far as I know TP is not a Plaintiff or Defendant in either case Broden/Clendennen is a party of at the moment). The Mclennan County DA has the legal controlling power over the tape unless and until a court demands it be released to another party, the DA is not going to and has no legal obligation to turn it over to Broden and his client or other attorney/clients. We will find out Tuesday if Tuesday is the day it is turned over or if a deadline is set.

    I suspect the court will demand the tape be released in a reasonable time to the defense, what that reasonable time will be will be contingent on many things.

    Also in the Clendennen case Broden must make a basic showing that the tape is material to Clendennens’s defense, therefore if Clendennen is not being charged with actually partaking in the physical violence toward the Bandidos or the police on May 17 th but rather he is being charged under the much broader charge under EOCA the state may argue that the tape is not material to the defense. Broden knows this.

    Broden is doing just what he should be doing kudos to him.

    Like

  16. LadyRavenSDC says:
  17. Just Sayin says:

    Now would be a good time for Bobnoxious to, once again, remind us of the conspriacy statute under which all of these bikers were charged. Because “conspiracy” allows the cops to charge you with crimes just for being in a place where a crime was committed.

    Like

    • oldiadguy says:

      The bikers were not charged for conspiracy. They are charged for engaging in organized crime with the underlying crime of capital murder.

      Like

  18. oldiadguy says:

    Lovely, if you can find a site that still has the FOIA documents received by Yahoo from the Waco PD, I would appreciate it.

    Here are some excerpts from a Wikipedia article that could apply here. The first covers some allegations about the involvement of LE in starting this melee. I am not endorsing that allegation at this time, but am posting this info for consideration.

    “Hells Angels Motorcycle Club[edit]

    In 1979, the United States federal government went after Sonny Barger and several members and associates of the Oakland charter of the Hells Angels using RICO. In United States v. Barger, the prosecution team attempted to demonstrate a pattern of behavior to convict Barger and other members of the club of RICO offenses related to guns and illegal drugs. The jury acquitted Barger on the RICO charges with a hung jury on the predicate acts: “There was no proof it was part of club policy, and as much as they tried, the government could not come up with any incriminating minutes from any of our meetings mentioning drugs and guns.”[9][10]

    During the many trials of many Motorcycle Clubs the one that garnered the most attention of the US Government was the Hells Angels case in San Francisco starting from 1979 to 1983. The US Government had a secret team known as BET= Biker Enforcement Team. It started with the DAGO Chapter of the Hells Angels, the team whose members included FBI, ATF, DEA, BNE and other agencies. The members were highly secretive and were able to break the law without recourse as long as they targeted the Hells Angels USA. Some of the members were hand picked from, OCCIB, LEIU, CNIN, PDID and the Organized Crime Intelligence unit of the San Diego DA’s office under the command of DA Ed Miller and his top associated Richard Lewis, others were Ron Dowen OPI (BET) Scott Barnes (BET-Intelligence records Keeper) J. Kennedy, Fred S. OCCIB and over a dozen others never to be made public.

    This unit was so secretive and had access to everything and everyone many who are now deceased, it started in mid 1976 in San Diego and quickly spread Nation wide until it was exposed in approx. 1980, what was learned was 4 BET members wanted to start a Biker War between the Hells Angels and the Mongols. It started in San Diego and quickly spread State wide and beyond. The plan was hatched in a small town in Calif. Santee near San Diego. What the BET agents did was had 7 Mongol Colors made with the California Rocker on the bottom, knowing the HA’s could only have California Rocker, several U/C agents rode bikes wearing the Mongol Colors around HA’s did some bombing aganist them, shootings, kidnappings, gun and dope deals all making it appear the Angels were doing this and not the Mongols.

    When they decided also to have several HA’s Colors flying and doing crimes against the Mongols, and vise a verse then both Clubs would think War was on , and indeed it was starting in San Diego, El Cajon and State wide the ploy worked and the war became a reality, setting the HA’s into a war with the Mongols the first blatant act was the killing og two Mongols Redbeard and Jingles while they were riding near Escondido. The BET team was the original group to start the war and it worked.[11][12][13]”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act

    The article also lists a couple of police departments that were prosecuted under RICO. Very interesting!

    Understand that I am a law and order kind of guy. I spent over three and half decades in the law enforcement arena. It is this experience that tells me something is very wrong with the WA response to this incident. Something is not right here. I believe we need to spend more time on the examining the actions of the WA and less time on the acts of the bikers. I do not at this time believe anyone in the WA committed any crimes as in the Hells Angels’ case I cited above, but I do suspect that someone screwed up, as I have stated previously and that is the reason we are seeing the response we saw. Time and a full vetting will tell.

    Take Care

    Liked by 1 person

    • lovely says:

      Hi Oldaiguy,

      Thanks for the information.

      I agree with your statement that time and vetting will tell. And your law and order kind of guy has come across in your posting.

      My main point in posting about the Waco Melee, other than trying to sort it out for myself is that there seems to be a lot of confusion and misunderstanding about what penal codes, charges and even what discovery rules mean in this case.

      I am trying to interpret the information through my own knowledge, researching, and a very good friend who is a practicing attorney. It may not come across but I am looking at it from the defense argument and trying to figure out what the DA is going to throw at the bikers.

      I think it is a mess for the bikers, a mess for LE, and a mess for the DA. I’ve said this is going to come down to the minutia of the law, as you posted in the HA’s case

      “There was no proof it was part of club policy, and as much as they tried, the government could not come up with any incriminating minutes from any of our meetings mentioning drugs and guns.

      If I’m an attorney for the bikers, this is where I am worried, there are at lest 4 acts of violence documented between the Cossacks and the Bandidos leading up to May 17th. At least some of the Cossacks have publicly spoken about how they thought this was going to be a discussion with the Bandidos about the “bottom rockers”, if the DA finds several texts, voicemails, whatever between the Cossacks about being prepared for a violent confrontation at TP it is going to be a very big problem for the Cossacks.

      Again notice the small number of Bandidos present for a meeting where a Bandidos president was to be a keynote speaker. Even Stubbs commented on the small number of Bandidos present. You’re old LE you know that both Broden and Stubbs are choosing every word with great care, (Stubbs casual speaking tone aside).

      Now this is strictly my opinion, but my thought is that the Cossack ended up just where the Bandidos had anticipated they would end up. I don’t think the Bandidos expected it to roll quite this way but the Cossacks are in way deeper than the Bandidos.

      I think that the 177 arrests, the EOCA, and the felony murder charges will be manipulated by the DA, I have repeatedly said that I am happy to see Clendennen is well repented and that I wish all the bikers were equally as well represented.

      Perhaps we are on the same page but expressing our concerns differently.

      Like

  19. Rojas says:

    Rojas wrote:
    They must prove an intent of both the individual and the alleged group

    Lovely replied:
    The State says that intent is apparent 1) The individual had intent to participate in whatever criminal activity was participated in by the group by choosing to be a member of a criminal organization 2) the bikers are members of a criminal organization, the organization intended to have a confrontation with another criminal organization.

    I am only articulating the States case not arguing for it.

    The question for me is what gives the State the power to declare an entire group a criminal organization.

    Lovely I believe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Statute.

    The predicate offence alleged by the State:
    did “commit or conspired to commit murder, capital murder or aggravated assault against the laws of the state of Texas”.

    EIOC is an penalty enhancement.

    “A person commits an offense if, with the intent to establish, maintain, or participate as a member of a criminal street gang, the person commits or conspires to commit aggravated assault.  Tex. Penal Code Ann. § 71.02(a)(1) (West 2011).   A “criminal street gang” is “three or more persons having a common identifying sign or symbol or an identifiable leadership who continuously or regularly associate in the commission of criminal activities.”   Id. § 71.01(d). – See more at: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/tx-court-of-appeals/1572884.html#sthash.fy5EKsCk.dpuf

    The State does not have the “power to declare an entire group a criminal organization.”
    The Attorney General is directed by statute to maintain a database for tracking organized crime in the state. There are actually two database. One general database that tracks groups. Another database is structured to track individual members and their associates.

    The statute when initially passed forbade the use of information from the database in affidavits of probable cause. That statute was amended to allow information to be used in affidavits of probable cause with corroborating information from outside the database.

    The state has to prove the individual is guilty of the predicate offense at trial before EIOC enhancement can apply.

    Like

  20. Emily Litella says:

    http://m.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/update-judge-prevents-twin-peaks-video-release-issues-gag-order/article_37bd518d-0c6b-52f8-9374-d573e366f05b.html?mode=jqm

    Nutshell is that Judge Johnson authorized release of the Twin Peaks video to Broden, his client Clendennen, and any experts the defense hired.

    The judge specifically restricted any further release of the video other than those parties. He then put a gag order on the DA’s office and Clendennen’s defense. Since this was a hearing only relevant to Clendennen, I couldn’t guess if that gag order will apply further than the parties at the hearing.

    The judge dismissed the City of Waco’s Motion to Squash, but heard and ruled on a Motion to Quash filed this morning by the DA’s office.

    Broden said in court that he will be appealing the gag order.

    The link to the Tribune article contains the reporter’s tweets from the hearing as it happened. More in there than what I have attempted to summarize.

    Like

  21. liberty2828 says:

    More witness stories need to come out. More exposure and pressure on the Waco liars…

    This one brought tears to my eyes… I believe any one of us could have this happen to us.

    Any Given Sunday.. View from the Inside of Twin Peaks

    So, once upon a nightmare.. I smiled at my friend over my Bloody Mary. I could see some (Boozefighter) bikers at the bar. Shortly after they brought my food, the first shot was fired. Soon after those men at the bar protected us, saved us, and were standing over us like leather guardian angels throughout all the stuff that happened. They were watching the doors of Twin Peaks at every entrance with grim, calm determination as hell broke loose outside them, bravely, stoically making sure nobody was coming in shooting. Yes, They had guns, but they were resting them on the table watching the doors to the patio in the front entrance. They weren’t fighting, they were heroically risking their lives in the deadly, silent scream of bullets hitting walls and bikes and autos.. and people. They stood right there throughout the terrible ordeal, the air becoming pungent and the sound scaring me to death. They were the ones who told us to crawl to the freezer. We hurried into the freezer with the other diners, our belongings forgotten on the tables standing in a light smoky haze that seems to settle what transpired beyond into my very pores. My gut twisting, my mind, an empty cavernous hollowness crowded with confusion.

    https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/any-given-sunday13/

    Like

    • liberty2828 says:

      Oops, meant to add this too.. hit post so adding now.

      There WAS some extremely intimidating, frightening people there, though. The cops came rushing in like foot soldiers, stomping and yelling ‘Get your fucking hands up, get down, then on the fucking ground..” And the line that maybe echoes through my fears the most, ‘put your phone down, i WILL shoot you.” They were so much more terrifying to me than the bikers.

      It was this black cop, that had some kind of assault rifle, pointed at me. He kept screaming profanities and threats and he was just extremely frightening to me.

      Like

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