After reading the umpteenth article [example here] from congressional voices talking about what President Trump needs to do in order for the legislative branch to reauthorize FISA (702), it’s worth reminding everyone how we accept goofy just because goofy has become the norm.
The FISA (702) issue belongs entirely to the legislative branch. It is their work product. It is their enacted law, albeit with an expiration date. The executive branch has nothing to do with the law. If congress doesn’t reauthorize a law they have enacted, that’s on the legislative branch – not the executive branch.
The legislative branch enacted a law; it could be unconstitutional and has never been tested in the Supreme Court. However, it is their law. If the same legislative branch allows the law to expire, that’s entirely their choice. The executive branch can do nothing to reauthorize a law that is entirely in the purview of the legislative branch.
President Trump should not accept the legislative branch dysfunction as if it is his problem to solve. It’s not his monkey.
Somehow the baseline of responsibility has been permitted to shift from the Legislative Branch to the Executive Branch, and the media are apparently clueless about how the separation of powers actually functions. Even if the Executive Branch wanted to reauthorize it, they can’t.
Somewhere in our modern discussions of things, we have lost sight of the roles and responsibilities within government.
As to the argument of whether or not to reauthorize it, personally I hope congress lets the FISA (702) legislation expire. However, that’s a distinctly moot point when overlaid against who has responsibility for it.
It’s time to teach civics again, and our nation would be well served if the people around President Trump simply reminded the media and by extension the American people, that FISA is a congressional responsibility. If they don’t want to reauthorize the law they enacted, then fine; but the issue is all theirs.
The problem of FISA (702) being carried out is multifaceted and complicated. However, the origin of the law and or extension therein, is entirely the responsibility of the Legislative Branch. It really is that simple.
WASHINGTON DC – […] Democrats have coalesced behind an ultimatum: They won’t support a reauthorization of Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act as long as Bill Pulte, an ally of President Donald Trump with no national security experience, remains acting director of national intelligence. The White House is standing by Pulte, at least publicly, while accusing Democrats of holding the spy power “hostage” and putting the country’s “national security at risk.” (read more)
One can only hope Trump also looks at it that way.
As the individual most abused by FISA 702, President Trump has every motive to let it die. I’m glad the RINOs and the Dumocrats are too stupid and infected by terminal TDS to process that fact. God works in mysterious ways. Hallelujah.
Yes and No.
It also allows POTUS to discover traitors working within and working with govt. officials but from outside of our government or even our country.
That may well be the primary reason behind the reluctance of some in Congress to re-authorize the law. Those most vulnerable may think stopping the law shields them from discovery.
Assuming the FISC court rubber stamps FISA applications for Team Trump like they did for previous administrations. I would not be surprised if any application from the Trump admin. is slow walked and put under the microscope.
The Obama admin did not use the system only via FISC-approved warrants and I suspect there are sources with access (***) who can still provide surveillance info to Trump Admin ppl -without any documented “application” – even when it’s technically illegally obtained. That exposes the corrupt govt. agents to Trump & Staff even tho’ it cannot be directly used in any legal proceedings.
*** Sundance has repeatedly highlighted the proliferation of illegitimate access points into surveillance data, extending beyond Intel agents into private contractors. That was exposed 9 years ago.
Correct GB. I also remember during Russia-gate the notion of presidential power and the use of national security letters for warrantless surveillance. Haven’t heard much about that recently.
Recall that the Cheif Judge of the FISA Court,
appointed by his good friend SCOTUS Chief Justice John Roberts,
is currently
Chief Judge of the Washington DC Circuit Court
Jeb Boasberg.
POTUS/ Gabby has what they need. They can keep looking for more until Friday.
If you are correct that Congress is afraid of being found traitorous, it is interesting that they havevalso forgotten that FinCen can discover them as traitors.
It’s just a theory. Why else would Congress not renew the authorization when it has clearly been used (covertly, illegally) as a tool for their political advantage?
After renewing it repeatedly for several decades they suddenly “threaten” to let it expire in the same year that PDJT has made significant moves that impact their grip on power and restricts access to unearned wealth. It’s counter intuitive unless they believe the tool can or will or has been used on them or their covert alliances.
I for one would be willing tom forgo any such “possitives’ and let that damned thing die.
it is most hypocritical to want to continue unconstitutional spy programs, and use the same methods to create (manufacture) cases against conspirators. Fact is, we have plenty of receipts already..,just need about 900 prosecutors who are willing to get to work…and that really is the problem and no matter of spying can SOLVE THAT…but I digress. I am certain you understand what I am statting…We saw it with durham…we are seeing it again with blanche…simply not enough investigators and prosecutors…spying can’t help that.
it’s best at this time to call winning a final end to the FISA AND 702 program. Even if it means that is the EXCUSE that the Trump allies want to use to deflect from the facts that they already have cases, ready made, and witnesses too. ready made, no spy orders required!
it’s time to put the genie back in the bottle. no good will come from “using” it for “good”. it always starts that way…it’s how the secret police spy state and media got the damned camels nose into the tent..and the 10-30 years later that camel is up your ass.
God Bless America
Oh yes. I personally agree. Let it die. Violation of the 4th Amendment.
I’m simply observing a conspicuous change in behavior of the corrupt Senate and opining about their possible unspoken motive.
As Sundance just explained, letting FISA 702 die is not in the President’s purview. Its like the Congress is angrily yelling “GET OFF MY LAWN!” at someone who is walking in the street.
Its all a bluff anyway. Without 702 how can all the DC insiders steal insider information for stock trades? You can bet there was never any “warrants” or anything else for them to spy on corporate CEOs and Board members
But in a way it is. Let Congress get together and pass a 702 FISA Extension. President Trump can and in my opinion should veto it.
That being said if the Congress sends a bill to reauthorize FISA 702 I hope he VETOES it the moment it hits his desk!
Well, it’s set to expire this Friday, June 12th. Surely we the people can find something to keep Congress distracted long enough that they forget to renew it, right?
You made me laugh – thank you. Love the idea of the boomerang distractions.
Just for you Joan:
I think I’ll riot for Carmelo Anthony to become coach of Syracuse University ladies basketball team. That’ll confuse everybody.
I will check those 25 sacks of mail awaiting The City of New Orleans…might find some Republican ballots.?
They are distracted, but don’t call me Shirley!!
History reports quite the opposite action. we the people get distracted from something new and fearful and in the 11th hour, late when no “news” is awake to report..not even C-SPAN…somehow (/s) Congress finds a way to put it over the line
again
even the process is secretive.
if that doesn’t register a black flag, I don’t know what can….dead bodies on penn avenue. a golden calf with sacrifices?
God Bless America
As if the IC needs 702 as a good ahead to spy. They are going to do it anyway.
Just like they were doing prior to 1978 when the FISC court and Congressional Intel Committees were created as outcomes of the Church Committee.
I agree, but we cannot let this moment to go to waste, thinking along those lines.
we have to insist congress NOT RENEW.
THEN we start to take apart the other secretive unconstitutional spying.
it’s a two pronged strategy to win freedom.
and I am ALL IN.
God Bless America
Congress – An undeclared domestic terrorist organization and unindicted RICO case.
Mrs Sunshine You nailed the truth!
You GO girl!
That funds themselves with our tax payer money, protects themselves with authority we gave them and let them keep, makes themselves filthy rich at our expense by giving away our power, our wealth, our freedoms, our labor, our land, and our security
Why would we want a law that lets a lawless federal bureaucracy spy on innocent citizens, i.e. us?
Maybe Trump voiced support for FISA just so the Democrats would kill it. Trump knows the Democrats will kill anything he supports. That would be brilliant.
Have you been paying attention to what our own party is doing to him?
I think we all know why “…the baseline of responsibility has been permitted to shift…”
If the heat is on Trump, it’s not on congress. They are only too happy to duck any and all responsibility.
Thank you, Sundance!
What if the Dems are scared that it will used against them? Is that weird?
I’m sure both wings if the Uniparty worry about that. One of the reasons they exempt themselves from the surveillance.
The POS’s in the sewer are having this faux b!tch fit over Bill Pulte, this is who they voted to have over see the nuclear agency…
Wordman run with the above pun.
Mentally ill freak.
Betsy, where’s your pic of the girl and kitty going “yech e poo”.
“Southern Stare” works?
Here ya go…
Matt Damon absolutely HATES that photo
I have it on good authority
now that right there is funny…you got me nimrodman.
I needed a good laugh..it feels like the second Monday of the week for me.
God Bless America
In Bill Lumbergh from Office Space’s best voice, “Yeah, I really don’t know about that.”
It’s likely many of those in Congress and their families were themselves victims of this abusive and unconstitutional process. I’m surprised the vote isn’t nearly unanimous to scrap it all.
Which branch of government does the Vice President actually fall under? The Constitution shows the Vice President as the President of the Senate unless absent, or filling the Office of the President. Under the Executive section he is only mentioned as being elected at the same time as the President, and replacing the President upon vacancy.
VP is Executive Branch.
Here is a quick summary on how the VP came to preside over the Senate – https://theconstitution.substack.com/p/vice-president-senate-role-tie-breaking-article-1-section-3-clause-4
Executive branch. But breaking ties in the senate
I know the current understanding is that the VP’s only Senate authority is as a tie breaking vote, but that isn’t exactly what the Constitution says.
“The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.
The Senate shall chuse their other Officers, and also a President pro tempore, in the Absence of the Vice President, or when he shall exercise the Office of President of the United States.”
This seems to be a limit on the VPs authority, not a statement on his only authority.
Up until the 1950s, the VP’s office was in the Senate, with a few who made committee assignments and set procedures for daily activity. This role was changed to more White House involvement with the expanse of the Executive Branch departments which occurred around that time. At least, from what I have read, seems to be what happened.
That is why I contend that the Senate Majority Leader should not be running the day – to – day affairs of the chamber in lieu of the VP not being present to preside, that is what the president pro tempore is for.
The entire Legislative Branch is broken and they have no one but themselves to blame! They have ceded their power and their responsibility to the other two branches, AND to the lobbyists, for decades and now that they are actually being asked to DO THEIR JOB and write/renew a bill, they have no idea what to do!
When was the last Bill written by Congress? 1997? All they do now is vote on a Bill by the bigs! Big AG, Big Pharma, etc. Thus they get the perks from from those biggies like a Vail ski trip for the family and then exempt themselves from the those rulings!!!
They did manage to pass the Patriot Act in 2001…and the country hasn’t been the same since!
I believe the last time they actually passed a complete budget was in 2007! Now all they do is hold up everything until the last minute and then jam through an Omnibus or a Continuing Resolution, both of which are filled with thousands of earmarks and hidden “goodies” for their districts and their buddies, but which always get passed so that we don’t have a “government shutdown”!
Oh, noes…I personally would like at least half the government to be shut down on a permanent basis and the rest of it should have to request, and justify, a line item budget proposal every year! And they should all have to start from ZERO – no more of this ridiculous asking for a 10% increase and then complaining about “cuts” because they “only” got 5%!
Yes, the last time a federal budget was passed through the appropriations process was in September 2007 for FY 2008.
The Legislative branch is Constitutionally prohibited from delegating their legislative duties. Yet they first gave legislative power to the administrative agencies. Then they allowed judicial activists to write new laws. And then they have empowered the use of the pen through EO’s.
What is CONgress actually doing for the money they get, grift, and steal?
They are busy — so much time and effort to fill one’s pockets — don’t ya know!
The main job of a Congressman or a Senator is to raise money to run for reelection.
We The People are to blame. We continue to let them do as they do. We The People are the ones who have ceded our power.
The propagandists love to trot out the School House Rock (how a bill becomes a law) ideallogy until it’s not useful.
Stand strong on this one, President Trump!
FISA (702) Surveillance is only used to prosecute Republicans and anyone who opposes the Democrat Regime. Why would Republicans want to hand Democrats such a powerful weapon that will only be used against Republicans? 😎
Some republicans appear to be immune. And they support having it used against Trump
Some republicans aren’t republicans.
Many republicans aren’t MAGA.
Most Republicans are actually Democrats, there are no Democrats that are actually Republicans.
Control is the result of fear! They (UniParty) fear the sunlight!
Nevertheless(!) … the fundamental issue is, and always has been . . .
That both “Section 702,” and the surrounding “PATRIOT (sic …) Act,” remain fundamentally Unconstitutional.
Our Founders managed to encapsulate wisdom into single sentences . . .
There is nothing patriotic with the Patriot Act!
Our legislature desperately wants 702 to continue, not as they say for our safety, but for their IC shenanigans. How I hope President Trump calls their bluff.
Judging from the pathetic ignorance and clown theatrics regularly displayed in committee hearings by the Dims, continuing education courses in civics should be mandatory.
Everyone in the House and Senate should be required to study their jobs and duties and the constitution; and they must be required to pass the test and get at least a 75% passing grade. Then they should be given a psych test to make sure they are sane. I’d vote for that for all already in and those that get elected. Many would be surprised they most of them are very stupid.
I wonder how many could pass the US citizenship test.
How about a High School Civics test?
The Constitution was written for people with morals. That seems to be a trait missing in D.C.
I think the executive branches choice of DNI bill pulte is the current issue with the extension of the law. Still not The executives problem per se but easy to see how congress can “pass the buck”
Applying leverage they do not have against a temporary appointment they cannot stop.
Eunuchs.
The Democrats love FISA 702, when they are in charge. When the shoe is on the other foot, they like it not so much.
Who are some of the organizations outside the federal government that support reauthorization?
Must admit there’s some very clever critters, on this site, offering some very clever, amusing, and “on point” comments. Yours, God, family, country, U.S.N.
President Trump has never been bashful about recommending to congress what they shoud do.
How about after the election in ’28, elect Trump as Speaker of the House? Heads would explode! He could be 3rd in line for POTUS without an election! Just musing here! A la Gerry Ford route.
If they do reauthorize it, President Trump should veto it.
Does he have that authority?
It’s a bill that authorizes a new expiration date, and often these reauthorizations contain various modifications as well. So far all such reauthorizations have gone to the President (whoever he is) for signature because they impact Executive Branch authority, and that means possible veto. Of course, what they like to do is include reauthorization in much larger bills that the President would be hesitant to veto because of whatever else is in there.
Use the 702 reauthorization as a “poison pill”. It could bring up the line – item veto argument, again.
To the extent that the ‘laws’ prevent the President from carrying out rewuired Constitutional duties ofdefending the Constitution and enforcing the laws, Congress has infringed on ‘seperated’ Presidential authority and requirements.
Congress by law designates the Attorney General (DOJ) wth sole authority to enfoce criminal law. The President is unable to, say, prosecute DOJ/FBI personnel who lie, seek illegal warrants, attempt a coup, spy on a President, refuse to investigate antifa, government contract fraud, vote fraud, ‘leak’ classified material, etc. Completely unable to enforce the laws or protect the Constitutional rights of citizens. Unsble to prosecute FISC judges who knowingly participate in criminality.
A couple of days ago I proposed that the Presidential Counsel be authorized to represent the President at FISA (not the “Targets/defendants”), that the PC can appeal an improviently-granted warrant, that sworn evidence of probable cause be required (to focus responsibility for FBI/DOJ lying). For cases requiring speed of warrants, the sworn evidence would be required after, say 60 days, or the warrant becomes null and void “nunc pro tunc”. DOJ/FBI can’t be trusted to enforce themselves. So the Presidential Counsel should also be granted authority to enforce certain criminal laws against DOJ/FBI employees and their co-conspirators and funded agents/assets. 18 USC 1001 (lying), RICO, 18USC 242-243 (crime under color of law) , and release or theft of classified information.
This has been shown to be required by past DOJ/FBI behavior, for the President to carry out Constitutional duties.
Stop Sundance, you are just going to confuse most of the press and congress with these facts.
I dont belive the IC will end illegal searches even if it does it expire. It will be diminished, compartmentalized and more heavily obscured, but will still go on. Powerlust doesnt let something like pesky legality stand in its way.
Time to put up or shut up congress critters.
Nothing more useless than a politician and those in news media.
I bet you the majority of folks (not including this readership) could not name their two senators and their representative in Congress.
You can’t have AI and 702.
Although, AI could be the next 702.
Who attempts to apply leverage they do not have against a temporary appointment they cannot stop?
Eunuchs.
I agree THAT IT IS NOT PRESIDENT TRUMPs’ problem to solve.
HOWEVER, tonight at midnight he can sign an executive order that ORDERS ALL AGENCIES TO HALT ALL SURVEILLANCE AND INTELLIGENCE COLLECTION OF US CITIZENS ON US SOIL.
He CAN do this.
will it matter…lets change that question and dive in.
what THAT WOULD DO, is make it a political issue and a constitutional issue.
the President of the United States has executive power…plenary…similar in many ways of a prosecutor…he CAN CHOOSE to indict or NOT.
it’s the same thing
have we not learned and understood the reality of joe malarkey, jesus from chicago.
PAY ATTENTION: for better or for worse, PRESIDENTS HAVE KING LIKE POWERS.
one such power is simply to write an official order that all agencies MUST stop spying on US citizens on US Soil.
it really IS that simple.
and then let the REAL DEBATES HAPPEN. because that is the thing that has never happened. a serious debate has never been tabled.
and what better platform of it, than the President of THE UNITED STATES.
I voted for President Trump primarily because I KNOW THE REAL DANGER OF A SECRET POLICE SPY STATE. At this point, everyone should have a pretty solid idea of what that threat can be..what it has been..what it is likely to continue to be.
President Trump can be a champion in a a way that will not only make him a proper American Patriot that will stand the rest of time, but a servant of the most fundamental and important and critical aspect of what really makes AMERICA GREAT.
that WE THE PEOPLE will not be collected and tested and measured by the central state. Precisely THE OPPOSITE is the answer and is elaborated in all of the consistution. It exist solely because THE PEOPLE allow it to exist.
NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
God Bless America
“… Jesus from Chicago.”
In a great piece of Literature from the American SouthEast, a Character uttered those great and famous words
;
“Don’ Throw me in Dat Briar Patch.”
I keep asking WHY has CONgress suddenly developed a “conscience” about renewing FISA-702 searches? Why now?
We know they have no conscience. Look no further than the so-called “Patriot” act to establish their proven mindset.
So why would CONgress threaten to remove their own surveillance tools?
I suspect that someone is very, very afraid of being ensnared in these (currently legalized) searches, especially if there remains a patriot heading the ODNI. That someone is pressuring CONgress not to renew the searches while there remains a Patriot in charge of ODNI
CONgress is obviously playing a game of chicken with the President, who has every intention of using the searches as they were originally presented to the public: to stop domestic terrorism.
“…the media are apparently clueless about how the separation of powers actually functions.” They know damn well how it actually functions and couldn’t care less. They have “fake news” to impart, a “narrative” designed by liars in boardrooms who write their checks far away that tell them what to say and that’s what they really care about.
We’ve lost sight of government roles because the legislative branch abdicated their responsibilities. We are a country run by political hacks, unelected bureaucrats and NGOs who seek to destroy the republic from the inside. Sad, but true.
There is nothing new here. Congress never wants to risk upsetting the electorate, so they have bestowed virtual law-making authority to the various regulatory agencies. Regulations with the force of law get promulgated and Congress pretends that they had nothing to do with unpopular regulations.
Congress knows full well that 702 is broadly unpopular with the electorate, but on the other hand, they also don’t want to be at odds with the “six ways from Sunday” “intelligence” community. Therefore, they are doing their best to place the re-authorization blame/credit at the feet of POTUS. It’s nothing more than a gas-lighting scheme for consumption by the electorate. Since the captured news networks hate DJT, they will do their best to obediently sell this fabrication to the people.
Congress trying to past the buck isn’t new. That’s their playbook. Only give up power you think might hurt you. Give them heck President Trump.
Sundance – Let me suggest a couple of thought experiments:
Assume Congress passes FISA 702 Extension. Should President Trump veto?
Should President Trump (and MAGA) trade an Extension of FISA 702 for a true (not watered down) version of the SAVE Act passed by Congress and on the Resolute Desk ready to sign?
Your thoughts sir?