The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day.
This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very influential sector of the political discourse begins a full-frontal attack against those who are pointing out how the tech community abuse H1B visas to replace American workers. In the background, of course, is the context of widespread immigration policy fraud being one of the priorities for the average Trump supporter.
The Silicon Valley team do not seem to review discussion of the H1B manipulation/fraud within the larger American economy as a problem, as long as the discussion of the visa fraud does not impact their business models. However, as soon as the H1B abuse started to be framed around Silicon Valley’s participation therein, the New Big Tech group take a nuclear war approach to defending their interests.
[SOURCE]
Having followed the immigration issue for a long time, yet specifically only having a big picture review of the H1B visa issues, it has been astounding to watch how Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks and the Silicon Valley supporters and influencers are responding to having the H1B visa fraud confronted. The self-interest in their defense is just astronomical to watch unfold.
Empowered by what can only be reasonably defined as their perceived influence over President Trump, the new-era Tech team are quite forcefully telling the MAGA base of Trump-supporting American workers that their concerns, views and perspectives are irrelevant.
It appears that most of the explosive sentiments revolve around H1B visas in the tech sector issued to Indian workers specifically. Apparently, the friendships, networks and teams attached to the sector of computer engineering carry with them an emotional component. I guess that should not be a surprise considering this is essentially a peer-to-peer wagon circling, in defense of the H1B visa problems in the tech sector.
As said before, it always appeared the MAGA alignment with Silicon Valley would not be an issue until the interests of the billionaire tech team came into conflict with the MAGA base. I did not anticipate the fracture being so fast, nor did I anticipate immigration would be the trigger. However, H1B visa issuance is apparently a key part of the Silicon Valley business model.
That said, several pragmatic aspects of the discussion are now being lost amid a very toxic shouting match that has begun. President Trump and JD Vance are, perhaps understandably, staying very quiet at the moment. However, that silence is soon to be impossible as both sides of a very divisive issue are going to eventually demand President Trump to weigh in.
I will try to cut through some of the toxic noise so that we can discuss the larger issues.
Theo Wold provides some context:
“I led the drafting of legislation in the Trump ‘45 White House to create a new legal immigration framework. I saw firsthand what happens when ANY visa reform is proposed: executives from the biggest multinationals and lobbyists from all kinds of industries are banging on the door, demanding to keep what they have.
What they have is a tangled morass of visa classes that are carve-outs, handouts, and special favors to particular industries, bought and paid for through decades of lobbying feckless members of Congress and presidential administrations. Industries lobby for the foreign workers they claim to “need,” and then they get a visa class carve-out, which they protect (and seek to expand) at all costs.
And there are enormous costs for our nation – costs that fall on the American worker with devastating consequences. The statistics bear that out: job gains go to foreign-born workers while American workers post net job losses.
I also know this firsthand because I grew up a working-class kid, watching my father (and by extension, our family) suffer from unfair foreign labor competition.
For too long, Americans have been largely unaware of the source of these problems because the policies are designed to be too complicated and are made largely invisible to public scrutiny. I’m glad the right is having an open debate about legal immigration. It is past time.
To be clear, the difference between O1Bs and H1Bs matters in this debate, for example, because these visas are intended to accomplish very different goals and are entirely different in scale, BUT both visa classes are rife with abuse. (Plenty of Reggaeton stars and anti-American athletes enter the U.S. on O-1 visas.) Essentially ALL visa classes are abused. Again, that’s because these things exist to serve special interests on one side of the labor market (and it’s not the side of the American worker).
The debate can’t be confined to a single industry – it’s about Big Tech, Big Ag, tourism and hospitality, transportation (airlines, trucking), the media & sports entertainment complex (yes, the NFL and MLB have their own special visa classes and their own special treatment by DHS and State) and many many others. They all want special visas to import cheap and convenient foreign labor. Even the roofing industry is now seeking its own special visa class. And all of these special classes get expanded over time, allowing the American worker to be flooded with foreign competitors for no reason other than labor savings for employers.
I, like many Americans, voted for a sealed border and an immigration moratorium. Americans need to retake control of our immigration system — how many are coming in, for what reasons, and for how long. One question absent from our current system: how does this individual immigrant benefit the American nation and her people? No more blanket exemptions or economic rationales. Immigration is a regime-based question, as both Hamilton and Jefferson wrote on extensively, and our system should reflect that Americans must also demand meaningful investment in assimilation and integration requirements for legal immigrants here already.’ (Source)
Within the debate, those who advocate for the H1B visa process are quick to call anyone a “racist” or “nativist” who stands against it. Within the tech industry the use of H1B is positioned as vital for their success.
As can be noted by the extreme position on the pro-H1B side of the discussion, they view this debate as a zero-sum contest. The position of Musk and the Silicon Valley tech group is that if the H1B process is stopped, American technological advancements will immediately cease to exist.
When it is pointed out that Silicon Valley discriminates against white Americans with engineering degrees and or skills, Silicon Valley shouts back the same arguments as the DEI promoters Musk claims to abhor. Musk and the tech group immediately use the Alinsky attack method (isolate, ridicule, marginalize) against anyone who speaks forcefully against their interests. The Musk allies and influencers then pile on. It is something remarkable to watch happen.
Years of Americans in various business sectors being forced to train their foreign replacements before the Americans are terminated from employment, underscore a very hardened stance against the H1B abuse. The decision by the Silicon Valley network to dismiss this problem because they want to sustain their current business operations is not going to end well unless some cooler heads immediately intercede.
Nicole Shanahan, Robert F Kennedy’s former running mate – and also a Silicon Valley network influencer, puts it this way:
“Having lived in Silicon Valley for 20+ years and founded and sold an AI company, I’ve seen firsthand how we rely on H-1B to fill grueling, unglamorous coding jobs. These jobs are essential, and we need capable people doing them. But the system needs an overhaul.
Here’s why:
To keep pace with global competitors like China and India, we need Americans ready to tackle the challenging jobs in these fields. We have them, but often our STEM grads turn their noses up at these entry-level, low-paying coding positions after investing in a costly education.
So why are immigrants from India, China, and elsewhere so eager for these jobs? It’s not because they’re glamorous or because these roles don’t exist back home. And definitely not because they offer high salaries. There’s something else driving this…
The undeniable proof that the United States is the single greatest nation on earth is that people from every corner of the globe dream of coming here—not to China or India—but America.
I take issue with some of the discourse I’ve read online today suggesting “lazy American culture” is the main driver for why we need to continue the H-1B program. Let’s be real: tech companies getting massive breaks on cheap labor at the expense of the American way of life is predatory.
Blaming our culture for why American STEM grads won’t take underpaying jobs is ridiculous and insulting.
The system we’ve constructed with H-1B visas, whether we like it or not, incentivizes people to come here and serve as essentially indentured servants for Big Tech, taking on the tough, grueling jobs that few here in America are excited to perform at the current suppressed salaries.
In return, if you’re good at your job, you’re then put on a fast track to get a Green Card, which means legal status and the chance to bring your family over through chain migration.
I’m reminded of this famous line by our second President, John Adams: “I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.”
Just because our kids have the “right” to chase artistic dreams like music and painting, doesn’t mean we should bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers to displace them in math-intensive careers. It’s a two-fold issue: both our education and immigration policies are broken. Instead of tackling these complex issues head-on, Big Tech monopolies and tech VCs are looking for the fastest way to outcompete globally and become industry giants. It’s paid off—look at the insane valuations of these companies!
We can’t entirely blame them for this approach—it’s been the industry norm for 40 years—but we can insist they seek out the tough, lasting solutions. No more temporary fixes.
I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
But, do I think removing the incentive of attaining legal status would reduce the volume of foreign applicants? Absolutely.
And, guess what? That might finally force Big Tech to look for workers right here at home (and pay them a competitive wage). Americans expect fair pay, which means these companies would have to start sharing their wealth rather than hoarding it.
Meritocracy is key to America’s greatness, but so are justice and fairness—we shouldn’t keep rewarding an industry that has curtailed free speech and American values. After Trump’s recent victory, the everyday worker feels empowered like never before. They won’t surrender that power, and frankly, it’s not right to imply they should.
There are numerous ways to improve our immigration system while safeguarding the American labor force (and I say “force” because it truly is capable, creative, and powerful).
Here are two straightforward steps to start the process:
1. Immigration policy must be designed to protect the American way of life and its workforce. Singapore’s work permit program, which they designed in the ’90s, was built from this standard and could provide good inspiration. They use a modern-day designation system to manage the influx of labor across various sectors.
⁃ Employers face levies (essentially fees that employers have to pay for each foreign worker they hire. It’s a way to manage the number of foreign workers coming in by making it more expensive to employ them, encouraging companies to also look for talent locally).
⁃ There are Dependency Ceilings, which essentially limit the number of foreign workers based on the local workforce—this is KEY.
⁃ They impose restrictions on the countries from which workers can come.
⁃ Permits are diversified across industries to ensure balance.
2. Special economic zones are amazing and can transform local tech job markets. Hiring locally is going to be critical for making sure Americans are taking key tech industry roles AND able to support their families.
If we really want to lift America to heights unseen in generations—not just talk about it, but actually do it—then we can’t continue to stick to outdated strategies that have harmed Americans. We owe it to ourselves and our communities to aim higher and do better.” (source)
As I watch this debate unfold, I find myself finally realizing why all the Silicon Valley tech people were such staunch Democrats. Their worldview does not: (1) seem to comprehend American Economic Nationalism as a priority; (2) seem to appreciate the importance of true liberty in the creation of the remarkable outcomes from American exceptionalism; and (#3) they appear to be inside a bubble of self-interest, unattached and unaffected by the economic issues that have seriously harmed the MAGA base.
In essence, the Silicon Valley network represented by Elon Musk team, does not connect in the same way to the important priorities of middle America. The technocrats are, well, Technocrats.
Watching this debate unfold is quite remarkable.
Are Elon & Vivek using this as an exit ramp from DOGE? Talking/highlighting Government waste is one thing but to be successful with DOGE, results must be delivered. Vivek desires a future political career & if DOGE underwhelms, that dream’s over.
Vivek’s political career is already over after this episode.
Was Musk even born when America first put men on the Moon?
Tesla made America great? So why’s Hertz, unable to rent Teslas, now selling them off for peanuts?
Non-Drunken H-1b SlamCast
https://rumble.com/v63n7x4-non-drunken-h-1b-slamcast.html
The BS Of H-1 Abuse
https://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=252569
From chatgpt:
According to a Quora answer (2021), 60 of the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies are of Indian origin.
CNBC TV18 reported (2022) that at least 45 US companies have Indian-born CEOs, including Twitter, Google, Microsoft, Adobe, IBM, Palo Alto Networks, and others.
A 2021 article by The Economist mentions that Indian-born CEOs dominate Silicon Valley, with at least a dozen Indian-born techies holding top positions in influential companies.
A Reddit thread (2023) discusses the phenomenon of Indian CEOs in the US, citing examples like Microsoft’s Satya Nadella, Alphabet’s Sundar Pichai, and Novartis’ Vasant Narasimhan.
And they want to keep it that way and expand it. To have the power over control of the gateway and engine room labor ensures the status of the higher places on the pyramid.
And these are the same people who treat us like garbage and censor us. There you go. They are not Americans or share our constitutional values. They are bringing their foreign values with them.
Fortune 500 Companies don’t care if the CEO is of martian descent as long as the shareholders are adequately rewarded.
Trust God.
Fear not.
Untrue. Those boards are massively DEI and carbon credit addled.
The notion of “fun” as a necessary aspect of employment – a contrived notion!
IMHO, it is a BS line that has been promoted that people do not want tech jobs that are not “fun” so it is perfectly all right to slice off that sector of the job turkey and give it to the H1B immigrants.
The same BS that promoted the idea of playing a stupid game “Angry Birds” on your phone so the NSA could swoop up buckets of information on the users as “Angry Birds” was a “leaky app”. Oh, so much fun . . . let’s play this game ON OUR PHONES, duh.
The idea of “fun” to lure the American people, like the pedophile cruising along in your neighborhood offering candy to little kids. The smarter kids are on to it and pull their sisters and brothers and little friends into the yard, into the house.
When did “fun” ever become a perquisite for aiming for a job? Generations of Americans doing rough and tedious work that was not “fun” but it was work and one could take pride in doing the work, getting the work done, building up a farm or working in a steel mill or in any of the other places where work was done.
Personally, I think it is all part of the PR for destroying America and the American people by promoting the idea of “fun” in the workplace – what a hoax and what an insult!
So it’s perfectly all right to gut out steel mills and textile mills across the fruited plain – that wasn’t “fun” work anyway.
Really, aren’t the H1B visas an end-run around the Trump tariffs and other means of rebuilding the American economy?
You’re going to levy tariffs on the CCP and India and elsewhere but ha-ha, we have our people coming into YOUR country taking jobs. It isn’t just the people on foot trudging the Darien Gap way far away to make it to our Southern border.
So much for picking crops.
I’ve been a software engineer (i.e., coder) for 35 years. While I wouldn’t code just for fun, for the most part, I enjoy my job. To say an entry level coding position is beneath American graduates in engineering and computer science is ludicrous. An entry level position is all one can expect upon graduating from college. I can’t fathom graduates with tech degrees eschewing an entry level position as a coder. Nobody is hired out of college as a CEO for crying out loud. One climbs the corporate ladder one ring at a time.
Well penned….coming up through the ranks I has a shitload of jobs that…weren’t fun….because that’s what I did. I managed to survive and have a successful career. Character building.
‘ That which doesn’t kill you…’ made America great.
The new work idea was Get a job you enjoy !! When you actually have to do a REAL job, it isn’t fun anymore. I kid you not. This was the going mentality at one point
Oh, I remember it well:
“Do what you love and the money will follow.”
I love playing bluegrass these days. Sometimes we make “ones of dollars” in tips…
So it follows – but you can’t buy a cup of coffee with it.
Excellent commentary.
This! It’s called a JOB it’s not supposed to be fun. Its work-working isn’t supposed to be “fun”, but it does bring other rewards we used to cherish.
Our culture with kids here has to change, the coddling of our kids, every kid gets a trophy and safe spaces in colleges what do we expect?
Esh my nephew works at a private equity firm that has its own chef to cook them whatever they want at any time. He hates his job.
I hit the cafeteria when I worked for a huge hotel and brown bagged it after. I loved my job most of the time.
Now a days kids bring their parents to job interviews-as an employer someone willing to travel overseas to work without mommy probably has its merits.
While we are at it – the education system in America needs to be re-vamped as well as the visa programs.
We are turning out soft entitled kids who don’t want to have a job that isn’t “fun” and would rather live at home forever, play video games or work as a barista so they don’t get stressed.
It’s our own fault.
Anyone who claims H1s are actually “high skilled” in the tech field is either (1) knowingly lying; 99% of them are no better than an American that had a 2-week “bootcamp course” or (2) is so ignorant they’re unworthy of air. Fact: The job shop system pays them ~$50k/yr.
All H1B Visa approvals are vetted by the U.S. Department of Labor which is a tower of incompetence!!! Several years ago the DOL approved an H1B Visa application for 500 Air Traffic Controllers to be imported from Peru because the FAA had a recruiting shortage. The DOL never checked with the FAA and approved the application. Now, FAA requirements for ATC Positions require:
A: US Citizenship
B: English fluency
C: Top Secret Security Clearance
D: College degree or 4 years ATC or pilot experience (typically US military).
…and the FAA has no problem getting applicants for these GS-14 positions that have federal law enforcement retirement.
A top priority should be the complete gutting of DOL staff involved in the process of H1B approvals!
Bingo. Musk is being intellectually lazy by shutting out all debate on the issue.
I don’t think “intellectually lazy” accurately describes Musk.
Perhaps “intentional liar” or “professional grifter” would be more accurate.
I do not think Musk will be able to “shut all debate” on the issue. He is indicating a “spoiled child” behavior. It will be interesting to see what PJDT’s Administration does to rein him in a bit.
For the moment I an willing to give Musk a pass as even the “smartest man in the world” is going to be wrong at some point. Maybe less often than the rest of us, but no one is infallible. On this topic Musk and Ramaswamy are missing many key facts. All of which have already been stated, so I won’t repeat them. But they really should reconsider their position.
From first hand experience and the many people I’ve known, including H-1B visa holders, during 35 years of working in Silicon Valley and 45 years in the software industry, that the H-1B visa program is rife with abuse and downright corruption.
Something not discussed is that the program allows spouses and children to travel with the H-1B holder. Which is completely understandable. But an “unintended consequence” is that any of their children born in the USA are, wait for it, ANCHOR BABIES that come with all the benefits that help the parents and other family members gain legal residency or avoid deportation. I’ve know several H-1B young visa holders that intentionally had a child as quickly as they could after coming to the USA.
Also, I’m of the mindset that stealing even the world’s mediocre talent, while potentially bolstering the USA’s industrial base, damages the rest of the world. Even the 0-1 visa program for extremely talented people should be used sparingly. Roy Beck’s Gumball presentation lays out valid reasons why.
It’s an oldie, but a goodie.
My hope is that Musk and Ramaswamy realize they’re not representing their own interests through DOGE, but those of the American people. If they don’t come to center on the visa programs DOGE will be viewed with a jaundiced eye by a very large number of people before it even gets started. And they likely will never recover from that mistake.
And the FAA and the DOL {and 75-90% of fed dot guv} have absolutely no Constitutional authority for their existence.
Trust God.
Fear not.
Neither does the DMV but we still need driver’s road tests!
The System!
Enshrined in our Constitution and Bill of Rights in a nutshell “freedom”.
The American System! Get the system operating correctly, via a meritocracy and personnel will take care of itself.
I have no problem with someone who comes to the USA and finds fabulous success, cool, far-out, but don’t bite the hand that feeds them. Using systems that We The People paid for, through DARPA, American Industry created and tell us to stuff it.
That being said; we have used foreign born people inside of the American System to excel like Wernher von Braun via Operation Paperclip (NAZI Germany) and the moon shots NASA with our systems; GE, Bell Labs , Rockwell, IBM , etc
Everything that these guys became successful at was created inside of the American system, that’s why they didn’t work in South Africa, Germany, Switzerland or India you pick the country.
Love your reference to “far out” – takes me back ….
The TechBros can hire whomever they want and have them work overseas.
Why do they have to import them?
Something is not adding up. All we are seeing are the shadows on the wall.
p.s. I would be willing to guess that the majority of the Public Health agencies in the US are run by Indians based on what I saw during covid.
Pharmacy for sure. Ethnic cleansing of white people, brought to you by Phizer.
Yes, so what is the explanation for that? Good point. Are these health care workers geniuses? No, they will simply work for less money and don’t have the rights that an American citizen has so they are less of a threat to the employer. BTW back in the day, Indians were the owners of most of the motels in our country. Even now.
If our stupid gov didn’t “help” them – they wouldn’t be here. Our gov-after Vietnam sent all the refugees to nail school for free and then gave them loans to set up businesses.
These are special programs set up specially for refugees/immigrants to “succeed” in America-
Our gov-gave Filipinos special grants to go to nursing school or free schooling…
Our gov – gives the Muslim/Arab country refugees grants and no pay back loans for child care businesses…
along with many other “special’ programs…
7’11’ stores? … if you see a majority of businesses owned by 1 demographic -our stupid gov had a hand in making it happen.
they don’t do this for Americans …
I knew a company in Atlanta, Manhattan Associates, who had 1000 employees in Atlanta and 1,000 employees in India.
Supposedly most tech people don’t even go to the office, so they can work anywhere and don’t need a Visa.
Lots of americans video-call each other from just down the hallway…so what if the video conference is across an ocean?
O.k. Elon, the WAR is on, and go do yourself in the face!
This debate is putting PDJT in the position of having to choose between you and your technocrat buddies, and his base of MAGA supporters.
I am confident of how he will choose, and hint, hint,…YOU LOSE!
ALL of your arguments for keeping the H1b program, fall as flat and are as full of holes, as the arguments for immigration more broadly, and very similar.
Sundances description of the visa system, sounds like the tax system, complicated with all sorts of special carve outsput in by various special interests.
Elon, you have exposed your true nature, and we should be thankful we are finally having LEGAL immigration included in the debate PDJT started with the escalator ride, which he focuse on ILLEGAL immigration.
Trump is a deal maker, it’s most likely he’ll find a compromise in the middle unfortunately.
🎯!
I’m not as confident about what Trump will do as you. He selected JD Vance as his VP. Vance’s mentor is Peter Theilen who co-founded Palantir, a company that produces surveillance software along with AI and facial recognition software. Theile and his co-founder sit on the board of directors of Bilderberg. One has to wonder what the true motivations of these tech oligarchs are and what Trump’s intentions are for allowing them in his inner circle. I support Trump, but we all need to remain vigilant of EVERYONE, including Trump.
If I was 6 years younger(still able to take prescription opioids for pain) I’d challenge Elon to a bare knuckle match in the Octagon..
A big part of making America great again is not just about money and the economy but rather a return to civility and decency. The filthy language used by Musk is not at all great.
Mass loophole chain immigration has become more of a quality of life issue for the country now. How much is enough, Mr. Musk? At some point we need to focus on the gross national happiness instead of GNP. Before people like Musk came here to JUST GET RICH I will argue we had a much better quality of life by every metric. This rapacious greed has got to stop before it destroys our quality of life to that of the place the third worlders are trying to escape!
Great point – thanks for bringing this up.
Sadly it is hard to believe that this is not intentional on the parts of Musk and VR to cripple MAGA/Trump power in Congress.
Vivek made his money with a fraudulent Alzheimers pill, cashing out his shares before the roof caved in…no surprise, India being massively corrupt and having an average IQ of 78…Musk, son of a billionaire, could enter the US any time he wanted, regardless…Meanwhile, highly qualified Americans with very high IQs get to scrabble around for the crumbs….
Vivek Ramaswamy is not an engineer or a scientist.
While he criticizes superficial US culture, Ramaswamy is the embodiment of the superficial Wall Street speculators who make billions, yet produce nothing for society; they just move capital around.
When Ramaswamy founded his so-called “biotechnology” company Roivant “Sciences”, he didn’t really develop biotech. It started as a financial firm. Forbes described it as an “investment holding company.”
https://geopoliticaleconomy.com/2024/12/27/vivek-ramaswamy-wall-street-pump-and-dump/
His stock crashed from $200 to 40 cents. He reported $38 million in income that year.
Barry from Kenya told the laid off coal miners to learn to code. What to they do now?
What else? Spend several more years of resources and effort paying the toll keepers along the way in the form of education, certificates and training to chase after another promoted occupation. Sounds like a racket, God knows we have enough of them.
Mine coal.
By the way it’s the second time Elon has used that line. Like his prose, he’s getting stale, given the movie is old gen with even older gen actors. Way not Gen Z, who helped win the election for Trump.
If a Gen Zer didn’t take boring anti social soul crushing STEM coding classes, they know someone who did, and they can’t find jobs now!
Yes, it’s a thing. Ask any High School counselor. They are pissed they guided so many kids down that path with the promise of always having an high paying job, and again, for emphasis, they can’t get jobs now, let alone high paying!
Elon knows all this and his duplicitous desperate recycled Saliński outbursts show it.
Clinton promised our future was high tech jobs for Americans. That ship sailed long ago.
Maybe another ship can sail with Elon Musk on it.
Dr. Norman Matloff at the University of California Davis is an expert in the field. Some of his main points:
1. The H1B Visa is defacto AGE DISCRIMINATION
2. H1B Visa workers are younger: lower salary and health benefits
3. Americans are just as technically savvy
4. H1B Visa holders are effectively INDENTURED SERVANTS – they are tied to a company for 4, 5, 6 years – until they get their Green Card.
In my hi tech career, I’ve also noticed the race angle.
Why does one team have 80 programmers from India, and the other company has 120 people from China?
They move up in a company. They do not stay in their low Paul g slave wage positions forever.
For many years, going back to at least to the early 1970’s, american blue-collar workers saw their livelihoods taken away in the form of imported foreign workers and manufacturing moving overseas. College educated white collar workers mumbled under their breaths that “you should have gone to college, huh?”.
Then companies in the early/mid 1990’s, along with their america-last political partners, starting importing slave labor in the form of worker visa programs of all sorts. People came here with college degrees and no expectations of a work-life balance. They roomed in extended-stay motels and apartments 6 to 10 in a space working like robots. They couldn’t leave the company because the company sponsored their visa. Leave and you go back to India or wherever. They were (and still are) slaves in the purest sense.
The snooty, college-educated, white collar class got steam-rolled by the same people that steam rolled the blue-collar folks a few decades before. Instead of laughing at the blue-collar family that lost its income, these people should have seen what was happening and how this same machine was coming for them too. They weren’t that smart. Arrogant yes, smart and perceptive, no. Now they are crying a river about all the imported engineers and business people working on the cheap. It’s funny, but it’s also destroying our country. The middle class is evaporating quickly. Both political parties are to blame and the deep-state is driving the policy bus.
Trump is gonna get a big test with this entire issue. He best be careful with Musk and his Indian sidekick. They will stab him in the back faster than Paul Ryan if the price is right.
Neither Elon nor Vivek have monetary concerns.
Trust God.
Fear not.
Musk has betrayed Trump by putting him between a rock and a hard place.
It is not just the Tech Industry. Companies are off-shoring ANY job that can be performed remotely. No visas required.
Same thing has ruined medicine and healthcare.
Funny – I know a leftist CoVidiot (he believes the jabs are the greatest thing since sliced bread and gets every booster and yes, of course he’s sick frequently and has new heart problems).
When mRNA first was brought out in the vaccines, he gave me a long, glowing, worshipful description of what he saw as the marvelous way it changed the body’s software.
I now realize what he was imagining was mRNA as a biological version of AI.
That’s the tech bro dream. Program everything and forget it. Don’t apply anything that worked before computers…
Elon and the rest of the tech oligarchs want to continue to import their “back of the house” labor- mostly Indian and Chinese loners, easily exploitable through the promise of green cards and chain migration opportunities. This is a flat-out scam.
The real issue is the total failure of teacher union dominated US public education.
Keep that on the forefront. They are right to criticize the talent our $800 billion dollar a year US educational-industrical complex is putting out.
Two edged sword but the Americans who grew up in the late 70’s and i80’s are still in the workforce- they are the last of the traditionally educated.
Yes. I might still be in it if it hadn’t gone so corrupt and downhill.
My recruiting firm can find tons of engineers. I recruit in the engineering space. Have been trying for 10 years to recruit for these people but alas, they are not interested.
.
Do you have a theory as to why? What do they tell you?
.
I keep getting the obligatory We don’t use external recruiting firms. For several years I have said the state of US engineering is India. US citizens that are of Indian heritage are great engineering candidates. The problem these tech companies have is turnover, which tells me the problem company culture.
I quoted Mr Free Speech’s X post, and got censored!
Amazing”
Jeez. Is Trump really, truly that drunk on his ego and hubris that he is going to hand control right back to the insular Mob that hate Trump voters? Are we being, have we been conned (again)?
When one thinks this thru the Following is apparent:
All men are created in Gods image.
The ability to do things in secrecy is Repugnant hence the reason things are done in the Dark.
These billionaires aren’t smarter than the average carpenter Doctor Mechanic they have the inside on how to get rich.
The billionaires are willing to do whatever it takes to get rich. More is done in the Dark that the light.
Our creator doesnt want this to be how it works but man has it in his control for now.
They are still like us without a consciousness.
Even Jesus dealt with the rich young ruler. 2000 years later human nature is still the same. Being rich is OK. Being young is OK. Scamming the masses because your Daddy is connected is not OK. The Roman empire was not a constitutional republic. Hence Jesus saying ‘sell your possessions and give the proceeds to the poor’ was Jesus’s remedy for the young ruler being the topic of conversation was the ruler obeying all the commandments. Hence why Jesus started talking about the 10th one.
I was laid-off from working in the IT/IS field in 2010. Almost everyone else at the large company I was working at that worked in the IT/IS field was laid off, too, systematically, department by department, person by person. We all knew that our jobs were going to India, and they did.
After being laid off I took a year “off” to work on other pursuits, and when that year was over decided to go back into the work world again.
The job I’d been laid off from paid a fair market wage, which means I was paid according to the skills I brought to the job. So when looking for a new job I was not going to work in IT and get paid as though I was working the window at McDonald’s.
I found a job I knew I could do, was close to home, and paid less than I’d made previously, but enough that I wouldn’t feel like I was being ripped off.
But right from the start I knew there was something very wrong with this fairly large business I’d applied to work at.
The business, HCLTech(.com), liked my resume and said I had the job I applied for. Before going into an office and talking with anyone I’d first have to fill out some online paperwork.
Online paperwork?
I started off thinking it was just that, some basic paperwork that they’d need to get things rolling, and it would take me a few minutes to complete.
Turns out I was taking their new employee training, online, before ever meeting with a single person from the company or getting a penny for time spent taking the training — which ended up being three hours long.
I almost quit the process a few times, thinking it was a big time rip-off. “Normally” employee training is given when a person is actually an employee. So this place was being exceptionally cheap from the get go.
I halted the training a couple times, and during one of those times I called the company and said ‘This is not fair.’ I was told that every employee had to go through the training before they started working to make sure they understood what was expected of them before they started working there. I bit my lip and continued on in the “training.”
Then I read something in the training that caused me to slam-on the breaks.
I can no longer tell you what the exact words were that I read, but essentially in the training I was told that, while being employed there, they could, at any time, for any reason, search my work area, my belongings, the vehicle I drove and even my person — my BODY — looking for anything they wanted and I would agree to let them.
At that point I blew a fuse.
I was dumbfounded that there could even be such a “clause” in an employment agreement in the United States, since the 4th Amendment was written to protect citizens from unlawful search and seizure.
I understand companies owning all the equipment and having full access to everything that is theirs at all times, including everything that is done electronically, but to say they could search my purse, my wallet, my car that’s parked outside, and could search me as if I as a criminal was shocking.
I immediately called and had a rant session with the person who wanted to hire me. I told them that there was NO WAY I’d work for a company that asked me to give up my 4th amendment rights, and asked if they actually had employees who’d agreed to do such a thing.
They told me everyone who worked there had signed that agreement.
I was even more shocked than before and told them I was no longer interested in the job.
The next day the company called me back. They told me they really wanted me to come work for them, and said they’d wave that at part of the agreement, for me, if I’d work for them. Gee, I’d get my basic rights back. They even offered me a higher salary. . .
At that point I’d already realized that this company was owned by “foreigners” who thought of their workers much differently than any one else I’d ever witnessed, and that if they were willing to take our rights away, who knew what other evil they’d be willing to do.
I declined their offer and wondered what in the heck was wrong with all the Americans who signed away their rights for a job. But 10 years later I’d learn that many Americans are willing to sign away their rights for a lot less, when the plannedemic came along.
Illuminating… so glad for you that you “manned up”, even with your purse.😎
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they could, at any time, for any reason, search my work area, my belongings, the vehicle I drove and even my person — my BODY — looking for anything they wanted and I would agree to let them.
I get the irritation. Apparently there was a concern with theft at the company. But you don’t have “4th Amendment rights” against a private employer. This idea long ago was resolved over the “drug testing” issue. (And your work area belongs to the employer.)
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Not her car!
Good for you for reading them the riot act, Raven.
They can’t force anyone to take a drug test. You take it willingly, or you quit or get fired or don’t get the job.
But they can’t come up, make you take your clothes off and force you to pee in a cup in front of them.
This “agreement” said they could search me at any time, for any reason. Not only that, but any one of their “customers” could do the same — search me at any time for any reason — one little detail I didn’t remember when writing the other day.
And yes, I wrote originally that everything in the employers business belongs to them, including all electronic correspondence.
But I most definitely have 4th amendment rights against search and seizure, no matter where I work. . . unless, of course, I freely give those rights away to get a job.
There are other ways to make a decent living, get great benefits and without student loans:
WWTP Instrument Technician/Plant Electrician or WWTP Sr. Instrument Technician/Plant ElectricianCity of Edmonds, WA
Edmonds, WA
Salary: $7,185.00 – $9,629.00 Monthly
To think that my wife and I were able to make a go of it on roughly $4,000. a year over a rather rough span of 6 years. (and we never took a food stamp or welfare check).
Yes, that’s Four Thousand.
I have absolutely no idea how it’s possible for 2 people to live on 4k/year in the USA. !!!!
Where did you live?
I am an American citizen. And I know Americans can do all those jobs under the right circumstances and incentives. And YES i will go to war over it.
PDJT holds the leashes on Musk and the Indian fellow.
He’ll tug on them when he’s ready and will turn them into choke-collars if necessary.
Cut PDJT some slack; he’s not even in office yet.
MAGA
I truly hope he gets there.
Vivek is American. Born here, raised here.
America first 🇺🇸 means Americans first!!!
Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.
– Thomas Jefferson
(I’m quite sure Jefferson , the man whom JFK called “Mr. Timeless Brilliance”, would consider Musk and fellows to be the kind of merchants he was referring to)
The end of this kerfluffle will have to come from the top guy eventually. I pray he is looking at all solutions and will calm the waters on both sides. The left must be rubbing their hands together and cackling with glee that PTrump’s prize recruits to his campaign are letting the truth out about this issue and where they stand. Wait and see what happens. It should prove very interesting for sure.
With ‘friends’ like Musk, Trump needs no enemies.
I think I mentioned earlier, I’m glad this came out now and not in October as an October surprise a few weeks before the election.
At least there is time to fix this without an 11/5 disaster.
Yes the left is gleeful with anticipation. Yes they will destroy the DOGE, it’s already over. Further they will attempt to destroy Vivek and Elon and clearly neither has the political sensibilities to survive this environment. We will be treated to endless photos of Trump on his plane with these guys.
I doubt that I have seen the rate of commentary here on TCTH for any other topic. The ailing MSM now has something to run with and stop talking about the ailing MSM. Merry Christmas indeed!
Again – giving the Regime Media more power than they actually have.
I’m in the wait and see crowd, as usual.
Americans WILL do the “not fun” jobs. What they won’t do is work for slave wages, 100 hour work weeks, live 15 people in one apartment, go on food stamps to subsidize the slave wages, and allow employers to violate all sorts of labor laws.
Most jobs are not “fun” but if they pay a fair wage then many Americans will do the work.
Who here thinks that coal mining, cleaning bed pans, hauling cocktails, cook in a restaurant, or roofing are “fun” jobs?
Big tech wants an exception for them. If they get an exception then why shouldn’t every other industry do so?
Better yet, ask – why should any industry get one?
They do not get paid “slave” wages-they get paid regular wages same as anyone else-the employer essentially gets a “payroll” offset or discount on those wages in the way of a tax credit our stupid gov gives them.
In the end the employer pays LESS for a visa worker then they pay for an American worker.
The employees get paid the same. you know -minimum wage and labor laws.
Thats the big secret no one wants to talk about – its all about the money – the employers are saving by hiring H1B visa holders with a “tax credit” that can be in the millions or an American without a “tax credit” paying full boat…
Thats how it works…don’t be fooled by the “cheap – slave labor” smoke & mirrors ruse…that’s an excuse to blame everyone but our idiot government who can end this problem by removing the incentive to hire them.
Having worked in tech for 40 years, I call BS. It’s a job and career path.
Just exactly how many more millions and billions do these people need.
They need to grow a moral compass.
Given that Musk is a very intelligent man – so presumably knows what he is doing – one has to wonder if he is trying to split the MAGA movement asunder on purpose.
His Autism is showing..
Indeed. Aspergers has weak social skills.
Americans will not do?
I had an IT job. I lost my IT job when it was given to someone in India.
Americans will do the job, believe me.
I made so much money using the allure of America to exploit Indians that I do not need to listen to the opinion of the Americans hurt by that exploitation. Wow! A thank you might be more in order than an F You. Another ungrateful immigrant?
I think I might hear the highly developed tech sector of Johannesbug calling you home.
“highly developed tech sector of Johannesbug calling you home”
That there is funny.
Pitiful, but funny.
It is cheap labor, like every other sector that asks for extra workers to do “jobs that American’s just won’t do”. So programming shops need to pay a wage that is competitive, meat packing plants need to make the working environment less unpleasant and construction needs to pay a reasonable wage. Increasing the supply of labor drives down the price of labor.
Why are you saying that tech workers on H1B is a cheap labor? Do you have data to back this up? The article has little substance and no references to any specific abuses. I was very disappointed with the quality of this material, very unlike Sundance.
The law requires paying prevailing wage, plus companies need to spend more than $10K -$15K in additional costs for lawyers and other processes to get approval to hire a person on H1B. A starting salary for a junior engineer in FAANG is $120K -$150K per year. A seasoned engineer earns $500K year.
I worked in big tech for 20 years and it is not easy to hire a foreign worker, companies shy hiring them, and do that only if there is a strong talent and even then, there is no guarantee that a person will get a visa due to a cap on the numbers of those issued per year.
Abuses do happen, but mostly by consulting companies which hire people in remote areas where prevailing wage is low, then send them to work in Silicon Valley, which actually damages FAANG, as they can’t hire due to limit on the number. And those engineers rarely meet the high hiring bar of top tech companies.
Why don’t you provide all of us the data that prove your points? Go ahead. I am sure that someone who has been in big tech for 20 years has all of the data to prove Sundance wrong.
You make allegations with no evidence given.
I immigrated from Australia to the US on a New Zealand passport and I was involved with the US immigration system for decades and I can say that Sundance is bang on dead right about this one! Most accurate article ever! I get tired of being told if I am white I need to be an American and if I am an immigrant I need to be brown. Well I am a naturalized American citizen and I am white. And yes, I don’t vote Democrat. Sundance is MABA. Make America Brilliant Again.
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Perhaps your employer did not lobby (bribe Congresspeople) for a specific carve-out (mentioned in Sundance’s article) that by-passed all the legal fees, processing fees, professional license fees, etc, allowing mass ‘immigration’ based on H1B, rather than individual attributes . . .
Great point.
Mine certainly did.
Elon is now radioactive. But it is better that he revealed himself, after the election. Just imagine having that DOGE position, suggesting that government employees lose their careers while promotung that foreigners are needed to replace them.
There’s a chance that musk will be memed into buffoonery.
Nicole Stranahan discourse makes sense. Everything needs to be updated and modified.
Yes, PT will be making a deal, so here’s a suggestion re: “Years of Americans in various business sectors being forced to train their foreign replacements before the Americans are terminated from employment…”
Some quota system, such as, for every H1B hire, must hire an American citizen for the same job, and the H1B-hire becomes the TRAINER of the American hire.
both hirees’ FOR THE SAME JOB DESCRIPTION skills are tested at hiringthe Indian hiree becomes the trainer of the American hireeat 6 months hirees’ skilled are retested.If American has higher skill score level, Indian sent home or assigned as trainer to another American hiree & the American hiree moves up the lineIf Indian scores substantially higher than the American hiree in initial 6 mos testing, one assumes they aren’t training the American because they want the American hiree to fail; the Indian hiree/trainor is fired/sent home.
Americans trained these H1B’s and lost their jobs over the decades.
Turnaround is not only fair play, but puts America First.
I’m against these H1B visas, but there will be an overhaul/compromise of the system.
Start coming up with some suggestions.
If the foreign labor is so vital to them then make them pay the foreign laborers TWICE as much as the Americans including a signing bonus, free meals, and medical insurance.
That way they get to really decide what is more important: American workers that they can train for lesser pay or superior foreign workers (yeah, right).
Faster than we can say “Make America Great Again” these tech companies would have Americans working for them and the foreigners shipped back to their homelands.
Send the Indians back to India.
It always struck me that being forced to train a foreigner, who was then to be handed your job, was metaphorically similar to being handed a shovel with which to dig your own grave.
It’s a good analogy. It’s a terrible thing what so many have suffered personally and as a country. We have had terrible “servants”. Such evil greedy hearts. I don’t see how they can look themselves in the mirror.
I’m thinking about when they were originally talking about forming DOGE and they were looking for MAGA patriots to apply and come on board. But there was a warning that they would only hire the the very best, the top of their fields, and they should be prepared to work 80 hours a week for little pay.
I remember thinking–Hmm…that doesn’t make much sense as you’re eliminating a lot of good folks with good ideas with those type of conditions. There are many that could share their expertise, but could only work part time or 40 hours.
Now it starts to make sense, at least as far as their demands–only the best, only those who will work for 80 hours a week, and those who will work for low wages–because they are “patriotic”.
Seems like those are the conditions(except for the MAGA and Patriots parts) that they use for hiring their own workforce. “The job is all encompassing and you will not have time or thought for any other facet of life except the job and you’re just incompetent or lazy if you don’t agree to that!”
And then there’s seems to be a quiet part that’s not being said–“As soon as you have helped to develop this all knowing, all powerful AI, most of you will not be needed, so learn to did ditches. Thank you very much!”
Did I get the gist of any part of this wrong?
Yep… you cannot “did” a ditch, as far as I know about digging.
No.
“Watching this debate unfold is quite remarkable.”
What is even more remarkable to me is the rapidity with which the MAGA movement of 6 months ago secured the endorsements and support of both former liberal Democrats and GOP anti-Trumpers such as; Musk, Kennedy, Vance, Ramaswamy,Gabbard and a host of others.
While I see the H-1B visa issue as a problem that needs hammering out, I am still astonished by how much common ground Trump has found with such a diverse, ad hoc alliance of former foes. Trump understands the power of socializing with these people, having dinner at Mar-a-Lago together and sharing stories unrelated to politics.
This kind of socializing among political opponents was what greased the political wheels of Washington 60 years ago, and is no longer practiced. The modus operandi now is vitriol, hatred and name-calling of whoever disagrees with your opinion.
This kind of division has been fostered by a globalist-funded media, seeking to deconstruct America brick-by-brick. It is a virus that has thoroughly infected the criminal cartel known as the Democrat party.
But Trump has resurrected the old way of conducting politics and I have to have faith that he will sit down with all the bickering players on the H-1B thing and come up with something infinitely better that a Kamala Harris administration would have done. Isn’t that what The Art of the Deal is all about?
We should never forget that the moronic, Marxist, word salad-spewing liar who is Kamala, came within cat’s whiskers of taking the White House, and we should thank our lucky stars for the assemblage of player that we have!
I’ll admit to a certain bias on this issue. Into our blonde, blue-eyed American family came a legal immigrant from Kerala India…my son-in-law, a talented software analyst. No one, and I mean NO one, works harder to provide for my daughter and granddaughters than him.
Dear President Trump,
MAGA and Musk and his H1Bs
Like they said in that movie.
“In the end, there can be only one”.
Elon is not naturally on the conservative side, but he realized that the woke, left slide was unsustainable.
He’s bought some time perhaps, we all have, but he’s still not on our side.
I had not seen the photo of a laughing Musk in a pink unicorn shirt, with white underwear-clad dark-skinned men standing behind him, before. What a bizarre image.
Where and why was such a shot taken?
I am thinking that it is a promo for an underwear manufacturer.
Weird.
Yes, I thought it weird to see him dressed in a pink “outfit.”
oh Gee! Holy Smokes!
So Trump welcomes Elon, and silicon valley billionairs (uncluding the VICE President, Vance).
Can you connect the dots yet?
President Trump takes office and Reps and Dems impeach Trump immediately and remove him with Trumped up charges … and Vance Group Now OWNS THE COUNTRY!
Tell me I’m wrong? I could be. But I just took one step back, and I see what Elon and group had planned all along! Genius move! Get rid the Dems and Reps and get the whole Country and fill it with Indians! 🙂
Yes, Vance was always Thiel’s paid tool. He’ll be a threat, if the tech oligarchs coalesce power and Deep State gets on board.
The tech oligarchs agreed to dispose of Biden, and Trump agreed to take Vance. Great deal for Trump, his best ever, but it came with risk. He can mitigate that risk with Vance locked in a closet for 4 years.
👊 👊 👏 👏 👏 👍 👍
Connect the dots…. I have been for awhile 🤷♀️💁
Probably not the only one😉😉
Reason for concern…definitely.
Keep on that path of thinking.
Look at timeline…from July 13th
onwards….
Not sure if endgame is to fill country
with Indians though…just one part of the
possible scenarios endgame.
I am thinking about Edward Snowden.
He blew the whistle on what was happening
with the surveillance.
Why…because he is an American 🇺🇸!
Bring in people from countries who have no
ties or loyalty to America 🇺🇸 and what the corrupt
could do😬😳..worth thoughtful consideration.🤔
Another piece on the game board. 🧩🧩🧩
We need some cowboys with lassos.
A job in tech or anywhere else is an exchange — the company pays me to do something I would not otherwise do. If that includes staring into a computer screen for hours at a time and solving problems others cannot, fine. I’ve been doing programming for a while (35 years) and worked with people from a broad range of countries. If the truly outstanding are picked for immigration, that works out well for us. But there are a lot of really outstanding home grown technical people to choose from as well, and they should not be forgotten.
No matter what they say, no matter what they do, remember, they all banded together in 2020 to cancel and de-platform President Trump, Commander in Chief of the United States of America, while he was still President and Commander in Chief, and his supporters, to STEAL the 2020 Elections and then cover up their steal, including on J6, and thereafter.
We all know this, but there is still a lot of pretending. And this includes President Trump’s new bestie Tik-Tok.
They shut/shout down all dissent after 2020, cancel people, their subscriptions, their monetization, deleted their media and other libraries, and more.
H311, it even happened to CT. WordPress said Get Out! to a paying customer who had won many Outstanding Blog awards there. Same as what is going on on X again right now.
They even bragged about it, before, during and after, visibly and publicly. In many places. And let’s not forget, they told us in advance what they would do, at Gaggle’s 2020 WhineFest:
LEAKED VIDEO: Google Leadership’s Dismayed Reaction to Trump Election
By Allum Bokhari
12 Sep 2018
https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2018/09/12/leaked-video-google-leaderships-dismayed-reaction-to-trump-election/
They’ve been all in on this since 2015, when President Trump took a ride down that escalator. This time they just decided to play The Snake, come in the back door and see if anyone noticed.
They didn’t really have anything to lose. They are total slaves to the gubt’s whims under the DIMs and they all realize it. When the assassination attempt came on President Trump in Butler they all found their brains and realized that speaking out against the regime can get you killed and it’s gotten serious now. And it’s not just the Arkanciders they have to worry about anymore. That is really when they began their infiltration thinking anyone can be next.
Protecting the Vote
How Internet Platforms Are Addressing Election and Voter Suppression-Related Misinformation and Disinformation
by Spandana Singh & Margerite Blase
30 Sep 2020 (last updated)
https://www.newamerica.org/oti/reports/protecting-vote
This. The tech oligarchs are not our allies, but rather the diametric opposite. They are our enemies.
Trump might not humiliate these snakes publicly, and will more likely schmooze them as he does, to get what he wants. But he knows these things you mention.
I was on this long before Elon Musk, Matt Taibbi or Michael Benz or Dr Evil or any of the tech lawsuits. I have tons on them. And it wasn’t handed to me. I did my own research until I was blue in the face.
CT s/b CTH aka Conservative Treehouse
A number of persons drank the Arkancider, and ended upended.