Wikipedia says a logical fallacy is the use of invalid or otherwise faulty reasoning in the construction of an argument. We used to be taught this in school. My first formal exposure to deductive and inductive reasoning was in science class in junior high school. Later I studied mathematical logic in college.
Inductive reasoning is a method of drawing conclusions by going from specific observations to general observations.
Often we tend to think of inductive reasoning as bad, or sloppy reasoning, but that is not the case. Inductive reasoning is the base for the scientific method, for how research is conducted. We use it every day to help us figure the world out, to make sense of things, to make decisions.
That being said, I think it is too often misused.
Before I throw dirt at others, let me come clean with my own worst tendency to use it. Bear with me please, it involves some ideas and conflicts specific to Catholicism, but it’s my best example of where I let my own logic fail me, and emotion take over, and that’s the whole point of this post. If you are Catholic, I’d ask you, no matter which side of the divide you might be on, or perhaps even not relate at all, to look for the point here and not get sidetracked.
The last decades have seen an increasing number of Catholics be just as divided into camps as we are in politics. Catholics who prefer to attend Mass in the Ancient, also called Extraordinary Form, commonly known as the Latin Mass, have become known as Trad Catholics. Some self identify with that term, and some use it, and see it, as an insult.
Most Catholics, including me, choose to attend the Ordinary Form, or Novus Ordo. Little or no Latin is spoken, although there are a number of important differences in the two forms of the Mass.
I have had the unfortunate experience of having a number of bad encounters with Trad Catholics. Indeed, the worst I’ve ever been attacked for one of my posts on this blog was by several Trads, and it was really vicious.
Consequently, I tend to not give Traditional Catholics the benefit of the doubt in my encounters with them. In spite of the fact that theologically my beliefs are almost identical to theirs. My values almost always align with theirs. We have much in common politically and in lifestyle choices.
But because my own specific encounters have been difficult, I often form opinions about their actions and motivations based on a very minute set of facts, and contrary to many other things I know to be true.
So, on to other examples I see, specifically here, that concern me.
Everyone who differs in opinion in some way from commonly held MAGA doctrine, whatever that might be, is not necessarily failing to support President Trump.
Everyone who expresses a dissenting or unpopular opinion here is not necessarily a troll.
Everyone who agrees with the choice of Vance for Vice President or disagrees with the choice is not necessarily a subversive deep state enemy or a brilliant thinker who never fails to connect the dots, or listen to good counsel.
If I have a moral and religious belief or value more closely held than my opposition to abortion, I can’t think what it is. Yet, I will say, not everyone who gets an abortion is evil. There are young, ignorant and uninformed girls and women who are often pressured into this terrible choice. There are sex trafficked victims for whom this is just one more terrible abuse.
There is an awful lot of talk right now, given the British cop who wants to, haha, extradite Americans for exercising freedom of speech. We need to think about what that means, freedom of speech.
If we believe in the right, then we believe in it for everyone. I don’t have to approve of what you say, and I should not therefore decide that you are a bad person, a lazy thinker, or even not just a supporter of President Trump because you said something I don’t believe.
Over the years, some of my most important choices in life have been based on information I obtained by talking to people I thought were wrong, or people I disagreed with. Sometimes those discussions led me to clarify and temper my own thoughts, improving my position and my opinions. Sometimes, they led me to investigate a different path.
My choice to support President Trump in his initial run for president was greatly influenced by Sundance and some of you. I was initially curious, open to learning more and supporting him, as I hated the other choices, but it was not a done deal based on emotion. I had a lot to think about.
I actually never intended to convert to Catholicism, the most important choice of my whole life. I was pursuing knowledge for a different reason entirely. Life is like that, if you set out to learn things.
Do not tell people they don’t belong here because they disagreed with you.
Do not call them a troll because they disagreed with you.
If you only ever go to the library looking for books by one author because you really, really like him, you sure are going to be a stunted, uninformed person throughout your life. And the one who will have lost the most is you.
I too was introduced to fallacies in high school science but unfortunately didn’t pay attention.
I took an ethics course at a Christian college where I really learned the value in studying fallacies and how to expose them.
If you’ve not seen it, here is a really good site dedicated to fallacies:
https://www.logicalfallacies.org/
Thank you!
11. Moving the Goalposts.
[From Wikipedia:] “Moving the goalposts is an informal fallacy in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. That is, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt. The problem with changing the rules of the game is that the meaning of the result is changed, too.”
Well said.
Hi Menagerie,
Why was my post not shown? It was on topic regarding the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo. Thanks in advance for the clarification.
Serviam,
Luis
Wow!
I didn’t see it listed specifically, but I hate when people insist that you must agree with either all of what someone says or none of what they say. Perhaps it falls under false binary. When you say you agree with something someone said, and someone is like “then you must also be in favor of this other thing they said!”. No. No I must not. We can agree with one thing without being bound to everything that petson has ever said. As if people aren’t complex. As if people are either always wise or always foolish. It’s absurd.
And while we’re at it what’s up with people in tv commercials? Are you supposed to want to be like them? It’s getting pretty weird.
Well spoke
Well written.
Some marxists must have taken note as 10-point-list reads like the Covid indoctrination / communication go-to handbook.
Great advice at a time when it is sorely needed.
Describing the “slippery slope” as fallacy is in itself a fallacy. There are many instances where an outcome is predictable or even obvious.
Gay marriage being the prime example. Anyone opposed to it knows it would lead to the normalization of all perversions including pedophilia. Twenty years ago those pointing out the obvious outcome where blasted as illogical because the use of the “slippery slope fallacy”
But here we are just a step or two away from normalization of pedophilia with academics, and their perverted followers pushing the “minor attracted persons’ label.
All predictable and in fact….predicted.
Agree 100%-i cant think of too may bad policies in the last few years were entirely predictable. Whenever a conservative points out an entirely predictable outcome, the relevant leftard poohs poohs it as a “slipperly slope” argument. I’d like to know which conservative sided slippery slope arguments havent come to pass!!!
So true
Over ten years ago I entered a Reddit discussion arguing the slippery slope of gay marriage…to wit…it would open the door to other forms of ‘marriage’….that discussion ended in name calling with me as the recipient…
Left the discussion immediately at that point because you can’t conduct a discussion with stupid.
And as you posted…here we are today …..
There truly are no limits to the self indulgence of baser needs..
Loved this line of logic … going to add the ’10 points’ to my Roberts Rules of Order cheat sheet for committee members …
Thank you, a timely reminder, certainly for myself.
Menagerie is absolutely right. I’m old enough to remember going to work the morning after a presidential debate and chatting about the pros and cons of the candidates and their positions without a thought of losing my job due to triggering a coworker, or being on the wrong side of the company’s political views. Live and let live was a wonderful concept. We all had varying viewpoints and could still get along. I miss those days.
Thank you for your insightful post, Menagerie.
As I read it, I felt as though you were speaking directly to me. I appreciate and accept your gentle rebuke, and your loving correction to the crass and rude posts I have been guilty of posting.
I
want to apologize to you and to the CTH Community, for my thoughtless, rude and arrogant posts of late. I offer no excuses, but the reminder that this public community area is to be a polite and civil discourse platform where no one individual’s opinion is more important or more valid than another, is taken to heart.
I appreciate your gentle kindness in reminding me of these things, and I will endeavor to not take for granted the privilege to be among individuals in this group, who are some of the most intellectual and bright persons I’ve read.
Thank you and please forgive my errors of judgement and my mistakes in civil discourse.
“Et cum spiritu tuo” is the response for “Dominus Vobiscum”. I too an altar boy a long time ago and had to learn the Latin responses, Sanctus, Agnus Dei, etc.
Let’s keep our eyes on the prize, defeating the idiots harris and walz. I do not want them anywhere near the levers of power. In addition, ‘rats lose control of the senate and don’t take the house. No more ‘rats in power.
Thank you for this. I have been visiting here less due to the negative “monitoring” I see from many people, especially the long-timers, the very second someone questions the actions or choices by the political figures we support – most notably PDJT. I believe that many of the questions and even the defeatist-type comments help me formulate and/or confirm my own observations, opinions and rebuttals. And to recognize where my own reasoning may be inaccurate. I also think questions improve my ability to quit pretending and to recognize pretending in myself and others.
I never consider an opinion of mine to be valid unless it has been challenged by someone competent.
“Over the years, some of my most important choices in life have been based on information I obtained by talking to people I thought were wrong, or people I disagreed with. Sometimes those discussions led me to clarify and temper my own thoughts, improving my position and my opinions. Sometimes, they led me to investigate a different path.”
I have a personal example of this that I will never forget.
The months after my last child was born were very hard personally for me. My precious child had been still born. I was 38 years old and had family, friends and doctors who had vehemently disagreed with my decision to have another child. We moved cross country back to my least favorite place to live when this child was 6 weeks old. I already had issues with depression throughout my life and now I was to experience post partum depression. This is, by far, the worst kind of depression I had every faced.
I didn’t have a trusted doctor. The one I went to prescribed Prozac and I didn’t feel heard or really looked at and I was scared and skeptical of the prescription so I didn’t take it. You may remember the mom in Texas who drowned her children due to PPD, that was at this same time. I was terrified. And I homeschooled. And I dearly loved my children and had very much wanted this baby who was a really easy baby in fact.
I went online as I had many times before for infomation and support. I am very sad to report that on multiple “Christian” websites and forums, I encountered little else other than judgement. They were calling the Texas woman a monster. I was stunned. I was heartbroken. And I was terrified. I finally found a place where I talked to a woman who probably held differing views than me on almost any topic one can imagine. But she heard me. And she gave me critical information – such as that Texas woman had had PPD with multiple pregnancies and it tends to get worse each time. That last time she had post partum psychosis and should never have been left alone with her children. She was not a monster. She was sick and needed help, support and very probably medication to get through the temporary crisis.
Her support and information helped me find my own solution. The lesson I learned was etched on my heart and mind.