Wikipedia says a logical fallacy is the use of invalid or otherwise faulty reasoning in the construction of an argument. We used to be taught this in school. My first formal exposure to deductive and inductive reasoning was in science class in junior high school. Later I studied mathematical logic in college.
Inductive reasoning is a method of drawing conclusions by going from specific observations to general observations.

Often we tend to think of inductive reasoning as bad, or sloppy reasoning, but that is not the case. Inductive reasoning is the base for the scientific method, for how research is conducted. We use it every day to help us figure the world out, to make sense of things, to make decisions.
That being said, I think it is too often misused.
Before I throw dirt at others, let me come clean with my own worst tendency to use it. Bear with me please, it involves some ideas and conflicts specific to Catholicism, but it’s my best example of where I let my own logic fail me, and emotion take over, and that’s the whole point of this post. If you are Catholic, I’d ask you, no matter which side of the divide you might be on, or perhaps even not relate at all, to look for the point here and not get sidetracked.
The last decades have seen an increasing number of Catholics be just as divided into camps as we are in politics. Catholics who prefer to attend Mass in the Ancient, also called Extraordinary Form, commonly known as the Latin Mass, have become known as Trad Catholics. Some self identify with that term, and some use it, and see it, as an insult.
Most Catholics, including me, choose to attend the Ordinary Form, or Novus Ordo. Little or no Latin is spoken, although there are a number of important differences in the two forms of the Mass.
I have had the unfortunate experience of having a number of bad encounters with Trad Catholics. Indeed, the worst I’ve ever been attacked for one of my posts on this blog was by several Trads, and it was really vicious.
Consequently, I tend to not give Traditional Catholics the benefit of the doubt in my encounters with them. In spite of the fact that theologically my beliefs are almost identical to theirs. My values almost always align with theirs. We have much in common politically and in lifestyle choices.
But because my own specific encounters have been difficult, I often form opinions about their actions and motivations based on a very minute set of facts, and contrary to many other things I know to be true.
So, on to other examples I see, specifically here, that concern me.
Everyone who differs in opinion in some way from commonly held MAGA doctrine, whatever that might be, is not necessarily failing to support President Trump.
Everyone who expresses a dissenting or unpopular opinion here is not necessarily a troll.
Everyone who agrees with the choice of Vance for Vice President or disagrees with the choice is not necessarily a subversive deep state enemy or a brilliant thinker who never fails to connect the dots, or listen to good counsel.
If I have a moral and religious belief or value more closely held than my opposition to abortion, I can’t think what it is. Yet, I will say, not everyone who gets an abortion is evil. There are young, ignorant and uninformed girls and women who are often pressured into this terrible choice. There are sex trafficked victims for whom this is just one more terrible abuse.
There is an awful lot of talk right now, given the British cop who wants to, haha, extradite Americans for exercising freedom of speech. We need to think about what that means, freedom of speech.
If we believe in the right, then we believe in it for everyone. I don’t have to approve of what you say, and I should not therefore decide that you are a bad person, a lazy thinker, or even not just a supporter of President Trump because you said something I don’t believe.
Over the years, some of my most important choices in life have been based on information I obtained by talking to people I thought were wrong, or people I disagreed with. Sometimes those discussions led me to clarify and temper my own thoughts, improving my position and my opinions. Sometimes, they led me to investigate a different path.
My choice to support President Trump in his initial run for president was greatly influenced by Sundance and some of you. I was initially curious, open to learning more and supporting him, as I hated the other choices, but it was not a done deal based on emotion. I had a lot to think about.
I actually never intended to convert to Catholicism, the most important choice of my whole life. I was pursuing knowledge for a different reason entirely. Life is like that, if you set out to learn things.
Do not tell people they don’t belong here because they disagreed with you.
Do not call them a troll because they disagreed with you.
If you only ever go to the library looking for books by one author because you really, really like him, you sure are going to be a stunted, uninformed person throughout your life. And the one who will have lost the most is you.
If I said catholsim is a cult, a pseudo logon that teaches a different Christ, with a pagan history of torture and violence towards those that study and follow the teachings of the old and new testament. And can easily prove it through scripture and historical documentation. Would that be considered intolerant?
No, just ignorant.
Nice logical fallacy M . In the words of your own inimitable apologist “the greatest threat to the Catholic Church is the New testament”
Now THAT is ignorance!
I, too, am a convert to Catholicism from Episcopalian. My wife of soon to be 57 years was Catholic, so I decided to convert before we were married. I was fortunate to have a priest meet with me every week for months to guide me in the ways of the Catholic faith until the day I, along with many others, formally became Catholics at a celebration in the Holy Name Cathedral in Boston. That priest was who we requested to marry us.
I wanted our children to be brought up in a shared religion, not separate ones. That was one of the most important choices in my early life.
Reading that list of fallacies reminds me of something from the “World Book Encyclopedia” that we had when I was growing up – I think that’s where I read it – I was about 10 and we did not have Google, Wikipedia or anything like that.
It was the entry about the different forms of propaganda – like the bandwagon and the red herring – fallacies are actually used IN the implementation of propaganda because the powers that be that are “ordering” the propaganda are on a mission for people to think fallaciously, as an exercise or demonstration of their compliance with fallacious thinking.
So people who have been trained or taught by their dear parents perhaps to look at things logically and don’t automatically go along “with the masses” and DON’T jump on the bandwagon and DON’T chase the red herring. Like the Covid craziness, all those people that jumped on that bandwagon, self-identified as lemmings.
❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ ❤️
Oh, and 🎯
Thank you, Menagerie.
I appreciate your post Menagerie. May I suggest re-ordering your thoughts if you put this up again?
Do not tell people they don’t belong here because they disagreed with you.
Do not call them a troll because they disagreed with you.
You should probably make that paragraph #2. Some people aren’t reading all the way through.
You are correct. People skim for what they like, or what they want to argue against.
Idea just hit me… (no worry, I escaped with minor injuries).
This is so good, perhaps add a permanent link to it – with a brief description – in the “Comment Guidelines” page ….
I had to ‘thumbs up’, if only for the first line line<chuckles>!
😎
^^^ THIS ^^^
Thanks–I read the whole thing. I don’t see that you should make any changes. I love having the handy guide to logical fallacies, too. I think I should print that out.
Thank you Menagerie.
Thanks. I was beginning to think the only people who belonged here were grumpy ole men with only one way to think and I seriously thought about not returning not because I am not in “the know” but have been informed on issues for many years. I decided to check back on occasion because I do learn a lot on this site and do respect the opinions and I am willing to give people a chance in some cases until they succeed or fail. No one has every fact in a situation.
The question is in the title itself, “logical fallacies” When conclusions and decisions are based on a false premise then all that follow will be false. e.g. all humans and races of man are equal and all their manifestations. This is a glaring false premise and any society based on this false premise is headed for the trash heap of history, which is where the US and the Western world is headed, Trump or no Trump.
Don’t forget the ever popular “post hoc ergo propter hoc,”after therefore caused by.
Cows fart in the meadow. Temperatures are getting warmer. So – cow farts cause global warming.
Exactly 💯 💯 trapper
I think therefore I am or rather cows 🐄 fart and therefore…(fill in any appropriate finish for the approved hypothesis)
Rene’ Descartes
was a drunken old fart
I DRINK
therefore I am
-Mony Python
Copy that 👌 👍
“I DRINK therefore I am”
I eat, therefore I am.
– Rene Dessertcartes
Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
who could drink you under the table… 🙂
Well, truth be told, I have to admit I occasionally have a brain fart. But have no idea where that falls in the contributing carbon chart of global warming….and quite frankly I don’t give a…..
Or it could be the warming is causing the cows to fart.
thank you menagerie.
Thank you! Have a wonderful day, Menagerie.
I am not a Catholic so I don’t have much to say about Catholic issues with how their Mass is conducted.
I did work in a Catholic healthcare organization in the past. I read the documents on the ethical and religious directives for healthcare and was very impressed with the deep and thoughtful wrestling with the application of religious precepts to how patients should be treated. I will be forever grateful for these practical examples of how to apply faith in action.
I had the Blessing of a communion with God at 7:30 mass this morning.
“If you only ever go to the library looking for books by one author because you really, really like him, you sure are going to be a stunted, uninformed person throughout your life.”
.
I think it would depend on which author one choose.
If one choose as that on author Kamala Harris or Tim Walz, then that would be true, but I don’t think one would be a stunted, uninformed person throughout his/her life if one choose Mark Twain (who commented on just about every topic under the sun) or Thomas Jefferson or Voltaire or HL Menken … … … or Donald Trump.
Well said and well timed Menagerie
” Show me your company and I’ll tell you who you are. Show me your leaders and tell you what you are.”
You went to a pretty good junior high! 😉
Hah! It was actually a public school in a poor part of town. I’m so glad you made that comment, because look how far our schools have fallen. I had really good teachers back then. Too few in public schools now.
I had maybe a half dozen exceptional teachers and a number of good teachers over 12 years. We sent our sons to parochial schools and in almost every metric I consider important, I graduated with a better education than they did. They had classes available to them we didn’t. A number of foreign languages, including Latin, of course. Advanced science classes, labs we didn’t have. Far better sports programs. Many options for humanities.
But I had better knowledge of math, how to write well, English grammar, history, and yes, logic. On top of that, I went to a technical school and graduated with the ability to enter a career field with training.
My husband and I spent a lot of time working with our sons, tutoring them. I taught one of them to write pretty well, and he did well in math. Another also became a fair writer, but not too good in math. And one of them, well, he chose to learn everything the hard way.
I agree! My brothers and I figure we were taught about 1/2 of what our dad was taught in school.
I sadly believe my son has been taught less than 1/4 of what I was taught.
My son is thankfully out of school. If I had young children today I would sacrifice a LOT to home school my children, or possibly private school (they are not necessarily great either) because the public schools are SOOO rotten.
Very sad.
Where have we heard this before?
“Control is a reaction to fear.”
I went to small town high school in the 60’s . Fallacies and forms of rationalization were required topics in Lit class. I cannot not recite much of it today but no doubt it helped in mental discipline, reasoning and critical thought.
Here is a brief article in how fallacies shape propaganda.
FALLACIES and PROPAGANDA
https://www.butte.edu/departments/cas/tipsheets/thinking/fallacies.html
Thank you for the link! I was a music major and then an art major in college. Not much of that taught (that I remember) in those departments. Church has always made sense to me; freshman Philosophy, not so much. I had some pretty crazy, possibly certifiably-so, teachers in elementary schools but some really wonderful ones after that.
Absolute truth is only self evident. An absolute truth cannot be proven. It is self evident that two parallel lines will run parallel to infinity. Or that a circle has no ends as two examples. There is no way to go out into infinity to see if the parallel lines crossed. And there is no way to make a perfect circle to prove it has no ends. This is only self evident truth that cannot be empirically proven. But only in one’s mind as self evident. Parallel lines and a perfect circle are objective in my view. That Jesus Christ is the Son of God who rose from the dead is a subjective truth that also cannot be empirically proven but only in the mind of the believer. Sort of self evident. It is self evident to a rational mind that racial and individual equality is based on a false premise. But can be empirically proven be the results.
Actually it is not self apparent that two parallel lines will stay parallel into infinity. They may meet themselves again or space-time may bend them if they pass near a singularity. Space-time itself is not a given and can be bent.
Is there such a thing as a self evident truth. I say no if it cannot be proven by evidence.
To what extent does President Trump avoid logical fallacies?
President Trump embodies many things: He is authentic, hits the bull’s eye and asks “difficult” questions (How could the sniper carry an AR-15 riffle onto a roof unnoticed?) only “si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses” is not within his “purview” (Robert Mueller): he is not a philosopher (and does not want to be one)!
For this language is DJT known for:
Therefore his rallies are packed, his tweets shared and interviews discussed: Until tomorrow at 8 pm ET…
President Trump is using persuasive speaking techniques. Are you presenting a strawman argument?
Come on! This is the perfect example of what I was writing about. President Trump is a powerful, effective speaker. He is fearless, and I admire his blunt truthfulness immensely.
Logic, however, is sometimes not his strong suit. He doesn’t care, his supporters don’t care. I don’t see it as even a point.
Going by his actions gentle friend…..
President Trump applies logic very well.
He has his moments but it’s certainly not something he sees as necessary. None of us are always logical. It’s really kind of ridiculous to try to insist that he’s always something he’s not. He colors outside the lines, and it really works. Good enough for me.
I repeat separate his acts from his words. He’s cutting a deal with his audience when he speaks in public.
At times during his presidency he had to make the lesser of bad choices but his overall vision of excellence was clear and concise.
I have to completely reject that he makes decisions illogically. He makes tweets and speeches to please.
He makes mistakes too.
I think we can both agree he is amazingly effective…more so than any other leader on the national stage in our lifetimes.
General Patton perhaps put it best when he admitted to being a martinette. He saw it as what the troops needed.
If we’re all thinking alike them we’re not thinking.
I enjoyed the tweets and thought most of them were hilarious. I think he did it to stir them up and it worked like a charm! They’ve used them against him because none of them has a sense of humor.
I also think he did them because he was bored. Lefties are a boring and tiresome bunch.
Harm Set, Harm Get!
That you “enjoyed the tweets” doesn’t say they are without fallacies. Take a closer look!
I. The author opened his post presenting a common list “10 Logical Fallacies Everyone Should Know” which is widespread. Why don’t you look at President Trump’s yesterdays “Truth Social” post [1] and check if you detect logical fallacies.
II. Or you search what others have to say about Logical Fallacies – List of Logical Fallacies with Examples and try Fallacy Detector – Online Logical Fallacy Detection | LF (logicalfallacies.org). Fallacy Detected
III. Re-read author’s last paragraph (bolding is mine):
“If you […] looking for books by one author […] you sure are going to be a stunted, uninformed person throughout your life. And the one who will have lost the most is you.”
Replace “one author” with “President Trump” and ask yourself if you concur with his opinion.
[1] Kamala-HArris-Trump-Truth-Taxes-on-Tips.jpeg (900×621) (theconservativetreehouse.com)
That has been my point here since 2016.
Well said.
The topic is logical fallacies, not trying to win friends with gentle speech. 🙂 Logical fallacies are invalid methods of arguing that something is true/good or false/bad.
An example of a personal attack logical fallacy could be: Kamala’s proposal of a $30/hour minimum wage is absurd because Kamala is an idiot.
A personal attack on its own, e.g., Kamala is an idiot, is not a logical fallacy. 🙂
Fallacy Detector | LF (logicalfallacies.org)
OK. Seriously. Rather than address Menagerie’s analysis through her Catholic metaphor, I will simply state my approach to her subject.
In the 2015 primaries I came up with MY list of the policy positions I viewed as most important: end America’s participation in the Trans Pacific Partnership, get control of the Southern border, deport illegal aliens, repatriate American manufacturing, and develop a foreign policy based solely on defending or advancing American interests first. Of all the candidates running in both parties, only Donald Trump ticked all the boxes, so I supported him. Then, Holy Smoke! He delivered on all of them.
I don’t always agree with him. I don’t always agree with his picks for cabinet officials. I don’t always agree with commenters here. I don’t always agree with Sundance. I try to voice my disagreements with Sundance in the most respectful way. Hey, his house.
I follow this site, and a dozen other conservative sites, some of them blogs and some academic with footnoted articles. I also follow sites that many here would find repulsive in their viewpoints, just to keep up with the current thinking in the liberal and far left asylums.
My point? From sites I agree with I get better ways to express what I already believe. But from the “others,” whether on the lunatic left or the rabid right, I often am challenged in ways that cause me to revise my thinking.
Just as the Wall Street/country club Republican Party has been changed into the party of the Main Street economy and the working man, so also the ideology of the “right” is also changing. “Small government, low taxes, and FREE MARKETS!” is yesterday’s obsolete banner. The new one, the one for the 21st Century, is still being hashed out. And when it is finished and I express my support for it here, I fully expect to be royally flamed.
👍
Excellent post! I am very sorry that some did not read or comprehend the purpose. However, they did prove your point! I am teaching Logic and Critical Thinking to middle schoolers and introduce them to logical fallacies! I am hoping to prepare the garden of their minds so that when a seed of truth is planted, it has fertile soil in which to grow.
The trouble with communicating on the internet is most of what is expressed is missing.
Eye contact, body language, so much rich nuanced meaning, subtle humor, etc..all striped away
to afew naked typed words.
Very easy to misunderstand , misinterpret, fill in the missing parts with dark imaginings.
It’s why ya see so many hair-trigger attacks online. An arena full of western gun fights.
Crazy.
Yes and no.
When using Formal Logic and standard writing techniques, where the structure of the essay and the technical paper are all clearly defined, there is no room, or need, for the personal touch in the communication.
IMHO, what differentiates a great writer from a brilliant writer is the ability to use prose (and verse) to express in words what normally we’d get in the personal delivery. Take Mark Twain for example, he was capable to expressing a lot of nuance ( with humor and sarcasm ) in his writing.
Technical writing, the final frontier of Formal Logic in prose allows absolutely NO implicit meaning that requires a personal delivery.
Perhaps that’s the difference between fiction and non fiction.
And yes, the Democrat Party is all but fiction. :-0
I should have clarified. I’m not referring to writers publishing a 5000 word article requiring research,
skill, structure.
More the give & take on message boards where a misplaced word can start a knife fight.
Thank you! If we are going to have a conversation we need to be willing to listen to other points of view. Trolls are usually easy to spot and ignore. If we run dissenters out we risk becoming a cult and will soon be ignored and become useless in the effort to restore this great country of ours.
Thank you, Menagerie. I voiced concerns (not lack of support for Trump) recently and was treated so rudely. It was insinuated that I didn’t belong here in the “big tree”… as if I’m not intelligent or mature enough to be a part of the discussion here.
I stopped reading comments for a while…the bullying worked… and just read Sundance’s and your content.
I feel validated now and I’m truly grateful…not just for me but for everyone here who has gotten a hateful or insulting remark for simply expressing their thoughts at a very critical time in the history of our great nation.
God bless 😌❤️
Take heart! If no one ever criticizes anything you ever say than you might just be wasting your time. Like I tell my single friends, “If you’re not being rejected than you’re not trying.”
You forgot my favorite: Stalking Horse: a figure used to test a concept or mount a challenge on behalf of a third party.
“Ross Perot was used as a stalking horse to get Bill Clinton elected.”
As the Godwin rules – Hilter must have made you do it. LOL/s
90 % of the discussion is solid here. Thanks for helping us out. Been coming here since at least 2012. Consider most of you kindred spirits.
Nothing like personal attacks.
😬 😵💫 😖
Pulling two names out— and
personally attacking them.💁🤷♀️
I have learned much from posters
who challenge me. Who over time,
have provoked me to explore and
search for the truth.
Many who through their insistence,
have caused more than one instance
of creating a major paradigm shift in
my thoughts and beliefs. That process
at times has been personally uncomfortable.
Many have recommended other sources
to obtain information, namely books and websites.
I have found that the best way for me to navigate
in this world that constantly challenges what I
thought or believed…..is to set my ego aside, take
nothing personally and ask questions..lots of questions.
The more I learn-the more I realize how much
I do not know.
I commend everyone here for stepping outside
the box and exploring the world outside the
media propaganda narrative.
Most of have travelled the same path in
realizing that most of what we have been
told, and how much has been hidden from
us….. is beyond comprehension sometimes.
If I had allowed my ego to get in the way
many years ago when a person I respect
had not challenged me with-don’t drink
the Kool Aid….. I would still be among the
many who watch TV every night and absorb
the endless mainstream propaganda…
and continued to believe I was “well informed “.
And if you have not guessed it yet….
those two you named have been among
the invaluable mentors who along with
Sundance, have been the most successful
mentors for me.
🤐 🤐 🤐 🤐 Enough said.
A clear difference between debating the points of a post and getting emotional and going after a poster.
I truly wish peeps could see the difference.
🤷♀️ 💁 🤷♀️ 🖇️ 📙 📎 📚 📎 📎
Note for those who are reading
this thread later….
I was not replying or making a
comment entirely based on
Menagerie’s article .
My comment is/was in reply to personal
attacks on other treepers, and the
post I was replying to has since been
declared 404.
My sentiments in the rest of my
comment I believe are still relevant.
For some, including myself, the waters
become turbulent at times-we must
learn to navigate and not let the waters
sink our boats🚣♀️🚣♀️🚣♀️🏄♀️🏄♀️.
The waters may be getting crazy-but with
a cool head and Faith, we will remain sane
and hopefully..safe.
Add this to your list, Menagerie.
An Illustrated Book of Bad Arguments
Thanks, I just bought it!
As Catholics, we have to remember to show charity to each other. These are tough times for Mother Church and we can’t be screaming at each other while the government is taking away parental rights.
Where did my comment go?
I trashed the entire off topic thread.
Wow. Unbelievable.
My post started with a “Thank You!”.
I was sincerely grateful for you making the point that calling those who disagree with you “a troll” is simply wrong and I expressed it by relating the incident where the exact thing just happened to me here in the treehouse.
It had more likes than any other comment at the time, about 30. There was an active discussion going on and I had just commented in that thread about the two types of reasoning and logical fallacies and applied that to the comments in the thread, when I noticed it disappeared.
I have two questions for you:
You had best back off here. First of all, not a single one of us admins judge the quality of a comment by the number of likes. Second, I told you guys several times you were off topic. Third, I will not take this kind of crap from you, and certainly not for your insistence in hijacking a post.
I am not going to put you in moderation, I’m just going to flat tell you you’re banned if you want to continue to insult me for enforcing a common rule not only of this blog, but most other sites.
Was the thread off topic?
Yes it was.
Doesn’t mean every post was wrong or right but the thread was going off subject and getting into personal axe grinding.
Please reconsider those last two queries in light of civil and adult conversation
If you had spoken in generalities you might have gotten by but by specifically mentioning people’s names … that was probably what did you in.
Big thumbs-up for this one!
Thank you, Menagerie. ❤️❤️❤️
Thank you Menagerie!
My favorite quote:
“I do not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it.”
~Voltaire
Well, i like to remember the Reagan Rule; “If he agrees with me 80% of the time, he’s my ally” (Probably paraphrase, sorry, only one leaky brain cell), or, a St. Francis is reported to have written/said, “In essentials, Unity. In non-essentials, Liberty. In everything, Charity.” (Or something like that 😉 )
It’s the little things that cause huge problems!
Reagan’s 80/20 rule suggests to rally around what we had in common almost a half century ago:
“The person who agrees with you 80% of the time is a friend and ally, not a 20% traitor.”
You are referring to famous phrase by Archbishop Marco Antonio de Dominis (1617):“In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas” (lit “In essential matters, unity; in doubtful matters, liberty; in all things, charity.”)Pope John XXIII quoted it in his first encyclical, Ad Petri cathedram (1959).
Thank you Menagerie ❤️
Everything you are saying in this post, I agree with so much. I relate with you in what you speak about your Catholic beliefs. While I’m not Catholic, I was raised with a religious schooling, but lost myself for many years. I always love reading your posts, I feel an affinity with what you say. Thank you
Reminds me of a truism I learned as a young engineer. Management would let us engineers design systems and plans for execution but would always hire outside “experts” (consultants) to review those plans. My boss, a middle level manager told me to always remember exactly what a consultant really is. His definition was “a consultant borrows your watch to tell you what time it is, and a good consultant gives you your watch back”.
this comment deserves many more upvotes
Thank you once again, Menagerie!
Thank You Menagerie
Yes I read all the way through!
So well writen & truthful
Some Traps we all seem to fall in on here and other places
Sometimes we forget our common goal is putting our Lord first and bringing back our great American nation to what it was & should be
Trump 2024
God Bless you Menagerie Sundance and All my beautiful and blessed Treeper friends ❤️❤️
Aaah…. yeah, the Mass in the vernacular.
In 68 or so, in my religion class ( we had five hours of religion every week ) our father announced that our weekly Friday Mass would be in the vernacular and we’d have bread and wine… noone thought nothing about kids drinking wine.
I raised my hand and asked if I could bring some chorizo…. ( the Spanish kind is cured and hard ).
Oh Boy! He got mad but later told me it was funny I made that comment but that kids in the 6th grade should not be saying such things.
No, we did not have chorizo, but the bread and wine were fine.
What does the Mass in the vernacular have to do with Formal Logic… hmmm…. I suppose it would take an Act of Faith? ;-D
Did they use sticks and stones too?/s Defend yourself.
Interesting article about Catholics…I was brought up in Catholic tradition…rec’d first Comunion, etc..started in Parhocial school..then public then finished in Catholic high school…spent 3 years in St Vincent Home for Boys, Brooklyn,NY…while there learned to altar boy.. memorized responses in Latin..fast fwd to 1960’s .. Church started to go against state about Viet Nam war…since then not happy with changes to present..but my relationship with God is rock solid on my own..sorry your experience with triad’s is bad.. I’ve become a live and let live person so long as you don’t come at me…😀👍
🇺🇸💪😀👍
I was in Catholic School from first through fourth grades. I loved the nuns, then and now, even the strict ones.
When you are looking at getting a rap across your knuckles for a smart ass remark, or laughing at a smart ass remark, whatever you are going to say or whatever you laugh at had better be worth it! There was just something about facing that kind of punishment that made some of those comments funnier than they had the right to be. I was a straight “A” student in Catholic School and a teacher’s favorite.
St.Philip Neri Roman Catholic School, Northport, NY
🤣🤣👍👍..StAgnes HS.. Manhattan NY
🇺🇸💪😀👍
Thank you, Menagerie. These are wise words and I hope Treepers will consider them. I came to CTH and then stayed because the conversation was adult, people weren’t calling each other names and they allowed each other to express their own ideas and opinions. I hope CTH will stay that way. I know it will if we keep Menagerie’s wise words in mind.
Now would probably be a very good time if you haven’t read Alekdandr Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag archipelago. Pick up a copy read it,and seriously consider the parallels of what has occurred in our political discourse here in the United States over the last couple of decades, and what occurred in pre Bolshevik Russia.
I would combine that with Dr. Zhivago and Too Live. Two powerful movies about what will happen to us if we are not careful.
One of the best classes I took in college (mid-70’s) was classical logic. It was taught by a former Congressman, John Schmitz. He was funny and entertaining as heck, presented real-world examples from his time in D.C. (which we all know, is a very ILLOGICAL place), and taught me tons. I’m pretty sure I still have the text book from that class. I don’t always recall the name of a particular logical fallacy, but I can instantly spot one, even if it’s only that “hair on the back of your neck” sort of recognition.
For any young person getting started in politics, business, almost any discipline, a course on classical logic is a good time investment.
There have been a lot of great posts on this site but this one jumped up to one of my all time favorites. Thanks for posting.
My wife and I are Catholics who attend ordinary mass. We vaguely remember Latin Mass from when we were young but have no interest in it, though neither do we oppose it.
We have five children, all grown, all married, and all employed and so far they’ve given us fifteen grandchildren, with number sixteen and seventeen on the way, so we count ourselves greatly blessed.
It doesn’t bother me to hear opinions or perspectives I disagree with, and in fact I listen carefully to them and give them due consideration.
Menagerie created this thoughtful thread/article today called “Logical Fallacies”. It addresses flaws in our post communication that boil down to human perspective and poor fellowship.
All human perspective is flawed and limited. We see dimly. The only perfect perspective is in God – Father, Son, and Holy Spirt, in 360 degree Eternity.
Menagerie used a personal faith example and confessed her own limitations. Some took her example and hijacked the thread for an argument on different forms of worship rather than stay with her theme.
All it takes is two of us for fellowship. Fellowship is more important than differences in form.
For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them – Matthew 18:20
There are thousands of different Christian churches, different forms of Christian worship, but only ONE Triune God. Only ONE Jesus. If any preaches a different gospel, they are Not a Christian Church.
2 Corinthians 11:4 – For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
Galatians 1:8 – But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
There are really only 7 types of Churches. They are archetypally described in Revelation. None of them have a denomination as used by any church today. Wherever we attend church today, our church could have any combination of the 7 archetypal churches characteristics. Some characteristics are good. Some characteristics are not so good. The Church is being built up into the Temple. Someday we will be perfect… but not yet.
I confess – That I don’t always bring the Spirit with me when I post at CTH. That I don’t always fellowship regarding my brother and sister as highly as me. That I don’t always seek to understand as much as I want to be understood.
I want God’s will to be done ‘on earth as it is in heaven’. But. This world is Not my home:
Hebrews 13:14-16 – For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come. Through Jesus, therefore, let us continually offer to God a sacrifice of praise—the fruit of lips that openly profess his name. And do not forget to do good and to share with others, for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
Another logical fallacy is correlation and causation … it’s actually a one way mirror in that correlation DOES NOT mean causation … BUT causation must have correlation… CO2 and temperature is a perfect example … yes temp has gone up at same time as temp over some time frames… but temp has also gone down when CO2 has gone up … thus correlation and causation is broken …