As the DOJ-NSD originally threatened, they have filed an appeal of the ruling by Judge Cannon in the Trump Mar-a-Lago document case. [Pdf Here]
The DOJ is requesting the 11th Circuit Court to intervene and “stay” or block a part of the ruling allowing the Special Master, Judge Raymond J Dearie, to review the “classified documents” and make an independent determination as to the validity of the DOJ-NSD claims.
Having read all the motions in the case, you can get a sense of the authorship from the motion. From my perspective this effort appears to have been written by the Lawfare group and filed by their allies in Main Justice at the DOJ National Security Division (DOJ-NSD). The bottom line is they really don’t want any outside party making a determination as to the status of the 100 “classified documents,” and/or consider if President Trump had previously declassified them.
The crux of their position is outlined in this part of the motion, which appears to hold a logical fallacy [pdf link Here]:
The framework of the appeal appears to be built on a false premise. The DOJ argument is contingent upon the government not having the original documents, and the claim is made *AS IF* there is only one copy. Even if this appeal is within the framework of a valid issue for an appellate court review (not a guarantee), when you apply commonsense the motion fails on its face.
The original documents are always retained by the originating agency. No one, not even the President, sees original intelligence documents from within any agency creating the product. Everything, including what President Trump would have seen while in office, and including any “read and return” version of the intelligence product, is a copy that stems from the originals. As a result, the executive branch (DOJ) has access to the originals regardless of what copies they may have retrieved from Mar-a-Lago.
Once again, the DOJ -together with the internal intelligence agency, likely the ODNI- is claiming to be the arbiter of the “classification” status of the documents at issue.
If President Trump declassified those documents before leaving office (he did), the “classification” status, another underlying premise, is automatically moot. This reality is the central flaw in the DOJ case and appears to form the basis for Main Justice to be so adamant against anyone else reviewing the documents.
So, there are two structural flaws: (1) There is more than one copy of the documents being argued, and the DOJ has access to the originals; and (2) the classified status of those documents is unknown (hence a special master), and if they were declassified the DOJ-NSD contention around them is automatically moot.
The Special Master appointed by judge Cannon is a former FISA Judge. Judge Raymond J Dearie likely has seen thousands of classified documents over the years, he is not a national security risk by reviewing another set of defined classified documents. Additionally, the documents have been in Mar-a-Lago for almost two years, the urgency claims by Main Justice look silly.
The DOJ-NSD looks desperate and nonsensical in this filing because the arguments being made by the DOJ-NSD are desperate and nonsensical.
The currently presented legal conflict is essentially over a judicial ruling that -if implemented- resolves the legal conflict. Therefore, there is no guarantee the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals will even take the DOJ motion under review. The legal conflict seemingly resolves if the existing judicial ruling is applied.
President Trump declassified documents showing how the corrupt DOJ and FBI targeted him. The corrupt DOJ and FBI went to Mar-a-Lago and took back the evidence against them in the raid, now saying no one should be allowed to see it.
Everything is becoming increasingly transparent.
Overlay the Durham probe and you discover, the govt people responsible for illegally targeting Trump are the same govt people responsible for investigating the illegal Trump targeting.
We keep watching….
(New York Times) – WASHINGTON — The Justice Department asked an appeals court on Friday to let the F.B.I. regain access to about 100 sensitive documents taken from former President Donald J. Trump’s residence in Florida but did not try to block the appointment of an outside arbiter to review other materials.
In a 29-page filing, the department asked the appeals court not to submit the roughly 100 files marked as classified through the vetting process of the arbiter, known as a special master — acquiescing to the review for 11,000 other documents seized from Mr. Trump’s home and resort, Mar-a-Lago. The review has frozen the government’s access to the material as it investigates Mr. Trump’s handling of the documents.
“Although the government believes the district court fundamentally erred in appointing a special master and granting injunctive relief, the government seeks to stay only the portions of the order causing the most serious and immediate harm to the government and the public,” wrote lawyers with the department’s national security division.
[…] The Justice Department initially asked Judge Cannon to stay the portion of her order that blocked it from full investigative use of the 100 or so files with classification markings, but on Thursday she refused to do so. That prompted law enforcement officials to ask the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit, in Atlanta, to issue a stay instead. (read more)
♦ IMPORTANT CONTEXTUAL BACKGROUND – Recently a Florida judge dismissed a lawsuit brought by President Trump against Hillary Clinton. [65-page Ruling Here] The media have enjoyed ridiculing Trump by using the words of the judge who dismissed the case. As noted by the Washington Times, “Judge Donald M. Middlebrooks, a Clinton appointee, said Mr. Trump’s filing was too lengthy, detailing events that “are implausible because they lack any specific allegations which might provide factual support for the conclusions reached.”
In March 2022 President Trump filed a civil lawsuit against: Hillary Clinton, Hillary for America Campaign Committee, DNC, DNC Services Corp, Perkins Coie, Michael Sussmann, Marc Elias, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Charles Dolan, Jake Sullivan, John Podesta, Robby Mook, Phillipe Reines as well as Fusion GPS, Glenn Simpson, Peter Fritsch, Nellie Ohr, Bruce Ohr, Orbis Business Intelligence, Christopher Steele, Igor Danchenko, Neustar Inc., Rodney Joffe, James Comey Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, Kevin Clinesmith and Andrew McCabe. [108-Page Lawsuit Here]
When I was about one-third of the way through reading the lawsuit, I initially stopped and said to myself this is going to take a lot of documentary evidence to back up the claims in the assertions. Dozens of attachments would be needed and hundreds of citations to the dozens of attachments would be mandatory. Except, they were not there.
After reading further, while completely understanding the background material that was being described in the filing, I realized this wasn’t a lawsuit per se’. The 108-pages I was holding in my hands was more akin to legal transfer mechanism from President Trump to lawyers who needed it. The filing was contingent upon a series of documents that would be needed to support the claims within it.
Whoever wrote the lawsuit had obviously reviewed the evidence to support the filing. However, the attachments and citations were missing. That was weird. That’s when I realized the purpose of the lawsuit. In hindsight, things became clear when the DOJ-NSD raided the home of Donald Trump, and suddenly the motive to confiscate the documents that would be the missing lawsuit attachments and citations surfaced.
With the manipulative, and I say intentional, “ongoing investigation” angle of the John Durham probe essentially blocking public release of declassified documents showing the efforts of all the lawsuit participants (Trump-Russia Collusion Hoax), President Trump needed a legal way to secure and more importantly share the evidence.
Think of it like the people around Trump wanting to show lawyers the evidence in the documents. However, because of the construct of the lawfare being deployed against Trump, any lawyer would need a *reason* to review the evidence. The Trump -v- Clinton et al lawsuit becomes that ‘reason.’
The “documents” (classified or not) are reviewed by lawyers in preparation for the lawsuit. This is their legal justification for reviewing the documents. In essence, the lawsuit is a transfer mechanism permitting the Trump legal team to review the evidence on behalf of their client, former President Donald Trump.
Once the formation of the lawsuit is established, the retainer and acceptance of the lawyers to represent their client cemented, the legal counsel, discussion and information within legal duties/obligations of those who represent the plaintiff (Trump) becomes an information silo. In addition to previous executive privilege established by President Trump himself; outside government there is now another silo to defend against the motives of the Lawfare crew (DOJ), the attorney-client privilege.
The lawsuit itself is the transfer mechanism permitting sharing of the documents and providing legal cover for the reviewers (lawyers). The details within the 108-page filing constitute the claims of the plaintiff in the lawsuit, which were established by the evidentiary documents later seized by the DOJ and FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago.
“Judge Donald M. Middlebrooks, a Clinton appointee, said Mr. Trump’s filing was too lengthy, detailing events that “are implausible because they lack any specific allegations which might provide factual support for the conclusions reached.”
There were no attachments and/or citations to the documentary evidence in the 108-page filing, because there was a legal risk to citing evidence with a status in dispute by the corrupt people in Main Justice and the FBI. Secondarily, there was an obstruction risk to the President, if his legal team was to publish citations that were part of an ongoing investigation (Durham). However, this doesn’t negate the value of constructing the information silo, an attorney-client privilege.
If the documents seized by the FBI were part of the lawsuit established by President Trump and his legal team via Trump -v- Clinton, then the material seized is attorney client work product. Lawfully obtained, constitutionally declassified and legally protected material.
This is where the ‘special master’ will play a key role.
Keep watching.
And it drags on…..
Which will we see first?
The Russiagate documents or the Kennedy assination files.
There is certainly enough “standby” to fill the grand canyon.
Exactly. If PDJT didn’t release documents (pick your outrage) during his 4 years in the Oval, I don’t know why anyone believes we are going to see anything pertaining to anything. Regardless of the law, courts, judges, Trump, matters not, we the people get nada.
We’ll see
Yes, we will see, or we won’t. So far, almost 6 years Trump has possessed the highest security clearances, or so we believe, and he hasn’t released a thing.
He ain’t getting any younger and for those who believe that vaxxed people are in grave danger, maybe he should act sooner rather than later.
There are none so blind as those with eyes yet do not see. 😘
President Trump has been hamstrung since the day he took office due to ongoing (phony) “investigations.” Any document release from him to thwart the efforts of these TREASONOUS co-conspirators would therefore be labeled either ‘obstruction’ of justice or ‘retaliation’ on his part.
So if President Trump exercised his unilateral Presidential powers while a “suspect,” which was essentially his entire presidency, those phony investigations (which are too classified to see the light of day/ sarc) would finally yield legal arguments with teeth, not just smoke and mirrors, and *not* in Trump’s favor.
It seems that the current route of document exposure, via LEGAL channels, is the safest route for our beleaguered, deposed President to take, as it involves legal decisions outside of his purview that can’t be arbitrarily disputed or attributed to him personally.
Such is our current state of affairs given our thoroughly compromised CONgress, FIB, DOJ, SSCI and judiciary. None of the co-conspirators embedded within these DC institutions will ever allow sunlight.
I would wager that the moment President Trump or a member of his immediate family is hauled off by these traitors, all bets are off. He needs an ace-in-the-hole so he can’t show his cards too early.
This is likely why they recently subpoena’d all those people and seized their property. Are they trying to eliminate all copies of his dead man’s switch before they pull that trigger?
I think our very stable genius is wayyy ahead of them.
By now, we here, are all well aware of the obstacles he faced, still faces, the seemingly absolute power TPTH hold and hold over him. So why does anyone believe there is any chance now that this is all going to be exposed? It simply does not follow a logical line of thinking.
funny
“ your not stupid, your in Congress”
Ouch! My grammar is feeling pain now! (It’s “you’re”)
Word processing software does not help grammar, spelling or punctuation.
But the technology ‘pushers’ have managed to addict 99% of the population to the drug of convenience. Because technology CAN do something then it is presumed that it is GOOD to have it do so even if it means surrendering self-reasoning and other individual freedoms and liberties in the process. Most of us have become addicted to the technological conveniences that we are unable or unwilling to even proof read a single sentence.
Heh. Check out Grammarly. It might even help with writing a resume …
The looming, 800lb gorilla in the room question is, and has been, why is Trump playing hide and seek with these alleged “bombshell” documents?
It’s a question worth pondering and for me, doesn’t make any sense.
While some of the theories are quite detailed and interesting, they never bear fruit.
He isn’t, they were at his home in case you forgot, it was the gov who is playing hide n seek as you say. After they came in and stole them.
There is no way anyone knows what was in his house or what they “stole”, unless you are a personal confidante of Trump.
They released a photo of that “classified” Time magazine cover?
But seriously, they showed the empty folders and other documents in a staged presentation.
IMO, this entire ordeal has been staged.
we can be sure of a few things:
cross fire hurricane declassified documents. (some have been publicly released…foia actions mostly.
but there are likely many other cross fire hurricane-LIKE documents (other) that no one knowns abut other than DOJ, ODNI, Congress, the FBI< CIA, and other foreign intelligence gathering agencies-LIKE (emphasis).
There is also likely a wide array of President Trump’s personal communications about these records with official responses.
There is likely other material and records that have nothing at all to do with cross fire hurricane.
and probably lots of personal items that were never classified at all and were seized anyway *warrant was too broad and in its execution …hint hint.
there is enough analysis based on pattern and fact that the reasons for the raid was to make the legal arguments with a warrant as its sole “predicate”, to blackhole damning material that shows and proves and will prove to be criminal activity by many people across the gamut of this corrupt central police spy state.
I am NOT a personal confidante of President Trump.
I am however keenly aware of a broad scope of material that has already been released into the public domain. Open source as they say.
I am also informed by solid reasoning and expert analysis of Sundance and many others who have performed exquisite analysis of these materials and what conclusions can be drawn based on that analysis.
I believe Sundance and many other who have done this important work to be truthful.
the beauty of investigative journalism of this gold standard caliber is that it passed the bullshit test…any of the claims can easily be corroborated and tested.
and we do just that.
every single time.
God Bless America
With all due respect, I take no issue with the fact that many documents exist or some do very detailed, honest investigative analysis. In the words of Andrew Breitbart “so what?”
Why is the FBI so desperate:
“ The Justice Department asked an appeals court on Friday to let the F.B.I. regain access to about 100 sensitive documents taken from former President Donald J. Trump’s residence in Florida but did not try to block the appointment of an outside arbiter to review other materials.”
Why has this become a lawfare version of ‘cat and mouse’?
They don’t want to get caught.
They don’t want to be embarrassed.
They don’t want to lose; career, pension, friends, family, prestige, etc.
THEY DON’T WANT TO BE PUNISHED IN THE PUBLIC EYE!
Only the first one has any merit?
They cannot be embarrassed because they have no conscience?
Did anyone one in this cabal lose their pension? McCabe? Sussman? Comey?
They have friends? Who knew?
The public eye? Please!
All four statements have merit. Of course the FBI/DOJ can be embarrassed. The only reason they haven’t been shamed so far is precisely because they have been successful at concealing (from the public eye) the evidence of their crimes by using the “ongoing investigation” lie for 6 years as the excuse.
No one has lost their pension because the entire group of DOJ & FBI high officials AND the Senate and House IC oversight committees (especially the Gang of Eight) have avoided investigating the FBI/DOJ’s crimes. And that’s because those Congress members were and still are PART OF THE COUP that was perpetrated against President Trump and at least 75 million voters.
I wonder how their will feel when the noose is laid upon their treasonous necks.
Oh, make my day!!!!
“I have a dream”
?w=620
“They don’t want to lose….their lives.” I can dream.
“Why is the FBI so desperate?” is, indeed THE question.
Because of the Durham investigation. Just like the Special Counsel investigation. It blocks releasing any documents because of ” interfering with an ongoing investigation.”
I thought if officially ended last week?
BTW, is it true the FBI cut Danchenko off as a paid CHS the same day Durham was appointed? I have seen that alleged.
?quality=75&strip=all
That about sums it up.
“it officially” ended.
It == Durhams current grand jury ended. Their term of service ended on September 14. He did not ask for an extension. He can convene another one if he needs to.
Anyone claiming Danchenko is the last indictment is guessing.
Only Durham and his team know how many sealed indictment “cards” they still hold and haven’t played yet. Or whether Danchenko is their last card: which is very doubtful.
I thought it was coming to an end (momentarily)?
Because they don’t want them leaked.
Perhaps this is merely about the narrative it enables the parrots on msm to speak / declare?
Does this enable them to shift the storytelling in a very particular direction: exaggerating “Trump’s a criminal” slander to enrage their marxists listeners to become violent against MAGA to save the marxist democracy they are working to establish?
This is Texas hold’em against demons. They have many game advantages, they cheat, they lie, they rig the game. They want their opponent to make moves to expose his cards. A long game strategy is of utmost importance. In the end, TRUTH marches on, and LIGHT will expose evil. Waiting is a strength.
The Bolshevists have all 3 branches of govt controlled, the media the financial sector and the election apparatus-they are almost at absolute power status, except for a few brave governors and. The MAL raid pushed them as close as they have ever salivated over to a U.S. dictatorship and damn, if they are not going to make sure they do not screw up PDJT’s indictment.
The problem is, as Lenin suggested, they plan 24/7 because there is always that ‘external, unforseen’ event or reaction the planners cannot portend.
AMEN. We have the advantage in that we bend our knees before God in prayer and humility. Keep praying.
He is playing 4-D chess?
He’s not.
There’s no hide and seek from PDJT.
It’s not his fault that the FIBs are organized crime.
trump vs clinton
durham “investigation”
look at these two “courts”
understand what has transpired.
God Bless America
He tried to release them. Bart’s DOJ slow walked the request and tried to run out the clock.
Now wait a minute. “He tried to release them. Bart’s DOJ slow walked the request and tried to run out the clock.” So does he have documents or doesn’t he?
DJT is a man who does and gets what he wants when he sets his mind to it. If he really wanted to release documents, information to we the people, why didn’t he? None of this makes sense.
I’ll let the past 6 years speak for themselves.
Bill Barr was holding on to the docs since the Mueller Investigation ended.
Trump gave him the authority.
Trump then declassified the docs at the end of his term in 2020 and then John Durham was appointed to keep the docs protected from release during his investigation. Is Durham finally finished?
Trump has had no chance to release the papers without being charged with obstruction. Now they raid Mar a Lago.
The way things are now, the powers that be are never going to get into serious trouble for their dirty deeds. Us normal people watch with bated breath as the soap opera plays out in front of us, waiting for the moment when that “ace in the hole” gets played that exposes the criminals for what they are. But, that moment never ever comes, and before long a new twist in the plot takes our attention somewhere else and the cycle repeats itself…
Agree Jeff and at this point, I am getting increasingly frustrated with seeing intelligent people being gullible enough to chase the same laser light.
Bob Barr blocked PDJT from the releasing the docs.
Now we see his true colors and better understand why he did that?
To hide the DS corruption and criminal actions!
So was it Barr that had the documents? On everything? On Vegas? Russia? Impeachment? Benghazi? Hillary? Hunter? Ukraine?
Is there any point at which we can say that there were “documents” or information that PDJT could have shared with us, but chose not to? Events that he could have addressed, but chose not to?
“I don’t know why anyone believes we are going to see anything”.
Fortunately, dear Eyes Wide Shut” aka Sleep Walker, you CAN know why. Hopefully you will chose to know why while you still have some presents left. 😘
😘==words meant as a loving tease.
Bottom line, Im praying that God finds an “alarm clock” loud enough to be heard by all our beloved sleep walkers.
You’ll know the DOJ is really getting desperate when they “leak” Melania’s purloined panties to their pals in the corporate media. (Note the revised inventory of top-secret property stolen from Mar-A-Lago now lists 23 “items of clothing,” as well as passports and medical records.) Expect to see Joy, Whoopi, the other Joy, etc., passing them around the table, agreeing “This proves it! Trump was clearly getting ready to sell these classified panties to his pal Putin!”
What’ll really be interesting, though, is to see the response of all the Lamestream Media who now raise no objections to the Mar-A-Lago raid, who are now licking their chops over Trump being indicted (by no fewer than THREE empanelled D.C. grand juries!) for having 11,000 documents stored in a secure SCIF under armed Secret Service protection at Mar-A-Lago — about 100 of them described NOT as “Classified” but rather curiously as ” bearing ‘Classified’ markings” — when the new Congress takes office next January, and promptly enacts a law requiring the FBI to raid the warehouse where Barack Obama continues to store the 33,000 (!) documents HE hauled away from the White House — and to search all of the Obama mansions as well — so they can tell us how many of THOSE documents have “Classified” markings, and so they can also rifle through the OBAMAS’ underwear drawers for nine hours, seeking definitive evidence as to whether “Big Mike” Obama is a male person or a female person.
I’m sure the Project Veritas people will be invited to appear on the Sunday “current events” shows with Margaret Brennan et al., bringing along their hidden-camera footage of Chris Ray and that “10 percent for the Big Guy” character, passing around and sniffing all this purloined underwear . . . aren’t you? I mean, those networks (and the DOJ, and the FBI) treat all former presidents EQUALLY, don’t they? They’re not PARTISAN, or anything.
— Vin Suprynowicz
I personally believe PDJT is strategic in EVERYTHING he does, and has EVER DONE. Just mho.
Ok, and?
Giving the FBI more time to destroy documents.
True, if only one copy exists.
lol, one click will do it, it’s not like they are burning papers in an old oil drum next to the Potomac.
They just don’t seem to like sunshine.
Just like Vampires.
“Just like vampires” who are starting to realize the Don is coming and there might be nowhere to hide.
Shysters and Crooks never do.
But sources and methods…..they must be protected.
Which is the point, right .
“And it drags on”.
What an odd way to describe an historically unprecedented 24/7, multi platform, interative, real life suspense thriller”. This interactive suspense thriller is being created in real time with real life consequences for everyone on the planet not only now but until the end of time.
Reaction?
A complaint that this unprecedented, irrepeatable adventure ” drags on”.
Perhaps do as President Trump asks, “wake up”. Look around, realize what’s happening and start pitching in to help him Save America.
In other words, realize why you were born. Embrace your adventure rather than sleeping through everything then dying. Or don’t.
Yes, they are desperate!
Of course they are. They crossed the Rubicon in November of 2020. They know we know.
They don’t care what “we” know. Ultimately they are in control and yes they crossed the rubicon in Nov 2020 and Trump no longer resides in the WH.
Hillary STILL unindicted over emails and Contempt of Congress.
NOBODY indicted over the Fast & Furious gun-running scam.
NOBODY indicted over Benghazi.
The American people STILL have no standing at the Supreme Court over a 2020 rigged election.
HUNTER BIDEN IS STILL ROAMING THE WORLD MAKING DEALS TO MAKE THE BIDENS RICH!
Exactly my point.
It all makes me grumpy too.
Actually, in 2015 if not earlier..
Crossed the Rubicon in 2015 when Trump declared his candidacy and they started spying on him. And that’s just the part that applies to Trump.
Private email servers and Clinton pay-for-play goes back to at least 1992 when FBI Director Sessions was forced out and Louis Freeh brought in.
The “they know we know “
shows on their face now quite often.
And desperate people do desperate things.
Which further begs the question:
What is in those documents that they are so desperate to keep hidden…to rewrite or whatever else their plans are?
Asking for a friend…
It doesn’t beg further question if you read CTH and Sundance’s analysis.
NOTHING! They are wasting time with ANOTHER BS game to sway Americans not to trust or vote for Trump. They had more than 2 years and those documents sit there.. so here we go with this game… they played the clock..just before time to reveal if President Trump will run again. It’s their same old BS of trying to stop him for running..they KNOW HE WILL WIN! The illegals can’t vote for at minimum 5 years…GET it?
“NOTHING!”
This guess about what’s in the documents the DOJ is trying to hide is noted.
However since the DOJ is claiming that even letting a retired FISC judge, who’s been appointed to be the courts Special Master reviewer of those documents, will tHrEatEn nAtiOnAl secuRiTy, imo its a puzzling guess.
“GET IT?” Nope. But I’m OK with that. 😘
And lose their logical minds.
Like filing appeal for assignment of a special master when rare appellate special master assignment reversals are generally only seen in cases where one party is of limited means and would have difficulty paying the baseline five figure fee required (the parties are required to pay for special master services).
The urgency claims also pale when considering it took DOJ, mostly Garland who claimed to take “weeks” to decide about using a search warrant (everybody seems to have forgotten “National Security Letters” and “Exigent Circumstances”), to pursue these classified documents that are alleged to be a threat to national security in the wrong hands. From May until August to get a search warrant is not indicative of a dire emergency bearing on national security.
It is, however, indicative of a dire emergency in carrying out the DNC October surprise!! Are they desperate? Just look at their actions. The emergency was so dire that they got the search warrant on Friday but didn’t serve it until Monday (conveniently so President Trump would be in New York). The emergency was so dire that they had to shop around to find a judge that was so much a never-Trumper that they knew he would sign the search warrant even knowing that it was overly broad (as in universe sized to allow for anything, including planted documents). It was so dire that the DOJ had to leak information about what was in the boxes (indicating that they needed to prejudice any potential jurors prior to anything except a DC indict a ham sandwich jury).
I honestly think they feared a conflict with the Secret Service. I don’t think they trust all the agents around Trump, and we don’t know for sure if they had someone from the SS as an informant. Look at how they wanted to go after the SS agents for J6.
JC: do you have a source / link for this statement you made here?
”Look at how they wanted to go after the SS agents for J6.”
August is when the campaigns start heating up.
FURTHERMORE, DOJ’s brief is not characterized as an “emergency motion” nor “time sensitive” despite 11th Cir. R. 27-1(b) detailed rules on such things.
In fact, their brief has ZERO on how urgent this is: hours, days, weeks?
They also fail the 7-day and 2-day clocks.
This is not about “time sensetive”, this is about optics for the upcoming election.
Patriots must stay the course. This will be our “Midway” in the war for Our Country.
The context of that tweet is the real possibility that the 11th Circuit will consider the Biden DOJ’s appeal moot and will not rule because of those
procedural rules.
So what’s their next step when this fails?
Wait until we see what they planted in the materials. After all, DOJ still has control of them AND, even though they belatedly gave a list of items, we don’t know what additions were made and to how many boxes these additions were made!
“DOJ still has control of them” Full STOP
Of course, they are assuming that Trump’s people have not previously made their own list of what is in each box.
Now, wouldn’t that be fun……
Plus everything the FBI did while searching Mar a Lago was recorded by Trumps hidden cameras. 😂😂😂
Unless they covered the lenses.
Cattle cars.
More of the same, over and over again until the left is defeated.
Arkancide
It’s really a shame that congressional oversight is non existent.
Congress has abdicated their charged duties for years. Budget and legislation. We allowed it.
Continuation of Government is in control. Unlimited powers and money to do their own bidding.
Totall agree.
We? Lol! What else are “we” to blame for? Maybe those of us that stay legal, pay our taxes and go to work everyday have something else to be blamed for?
“We” have a responsibility to preserve our Republic, as put forth in our Constitution. That requires vigilance and holding government accountable and in check.
If you believe that our only duty is “stay legal, pay our taxes and go to work everyday”, then you get exactly what we got, a socialist country.
PS If we did our duty, our taxes would not be what they are.
Uh huh. So now I’m a “socialist”? Ok. Whatever
Rick, I don’t think that’s what oldschool is saying at all. His point is there is more to maintaining our government than doing those things you mentioned. Just doing what you mentioned has allowed the take over of the government agencies by ideologue leftists. I did what you mention in my working career thinking things would take care of themselves if I did my part of going to work and paying my taxes, voting and what not. I wasn’t paying all that much attention though I listened to what was going on in government.
In the aftermath of 9-11, I was a supporter of going after those responsible. But when they said we needed to invade Iraq, I said that night that was announced no we didn’t. And that started my opening my eyes a bit wider. That there was more to maintaining a government of the people, for the people than just paying taxes and going to work and voting. Public opinion against that invasion most likely could have stopped it, but it didn’t come.
Fast forward to the current day, public opinion against the things being pushed by the current government like lockdowns and mandates could have halted those in their tracks. But that voice was slow to build. Why, people were going to work and paying their taxes thinking the government got this so just do what they say. I railed against the government rhetoric starting March 2020, yet a friend told me it was just like having to buckle your seat belt before driving. It was the law of the land, got the same from my wife in a bitter argument with her. An argument still on going, life ain’t easy any more in my house.
Thank you for this post. You nailed it.
I was enjoying the “good life” too. We fell asleep on our watch
AND the duties and responsibilities of me, an American Citizen were bought and paid for in the jungle on the other side of the world ! If it ever gets to the point where I need the advice of an anonymous collection of bits and bytes, I will throw this computer away and continue on with my life, if the fbi doesn’t steal it first! Rick ….OUT!
Seems to me you are doing more than going to work and paying taxes by showing up, reading and commenting on this site. And good for you for making that effort. Back when I went to work and paid my taxes, I never took the effort to dig into much of anything. I didn’t watch the news that much as I believed them to be water carrying members of one party or another. It would be my wife that turned the nightly news on, never me. These last 7 or 8 years has been eye opening for me now that I do dig into things. I too worry about the FBI and their tactics, we all know they are reading our comments here. So keep reading here and on other sites, you’re doing more than you let on.
Your mention of the war in the jungle brings me to this. I was in the military during that war, luckily not in that jungle but overseas none the less. Coming home I did my mandated inactive military time as well, Moved to a small midwestern town where I joined the volunteer fire department and served for 13 years, along with getting elected and doing 4 years as a city councilman. I thought I had a background to be proud of, that I had done enough to prove my worth as an American citizen. Until 2016 that is. I realized I needed to join in and try to become a voice against what I saw as government over reach and corruption. That I had more to do while I was alive. That’s what keeps me coming back to CTH and other sites.learning and commenting when I feel I have something to add. There’s more work to be done beyond what I’ve already done. It’s a life long battle to keep our government as drafted by our forefathers. Sadly we’ve allowed it to drift away from that by only relying on our elected officials to do the job we thought they should be doing after we voted them into office.
Some paid a heavy price for our country. I was in SE Asia 68-70. Some do not. Lets be careful what we say. Something about walking in someone else shoes comes to mind. Our government should frighten most tax payers.
Point taken. I’ve also thought that we may have more fights yet. Welcome Home!
Because Con-gress is in on it in a manner of speaking. Save for a hand full of said Con-gress Critters, there’s been zero push back from them regarding the Mar A Lago Raid. They are hoping this is the one that finally brings PDJT down.
Congressional oversight?
What a concept.
Ya think?
The DOJ doesn’t know what to do when they are in a court not controlled by one of their favorite “Obama Judges.”
Lol, just watch them.
“Just watch them”
Watch the Spygate/Russiagate schemers, now working in Bidens DOJ who orchestrated Raidgate? Always
Watch how these DOJ schemes react when they’re in court’s they don’t control. Indeed I am. Lol.
Which courts?
The court controlled by Trump appointee, judge Cannon.
The 11th Circuit Court of Appeals. Out of 11 judges; 6 are Trump appointees.
Btw, the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals oversee by SCOTUS Justice Clarence Thomas.
You wanna talk about all the “Trump-appointees” who turned out to be anti-Trump? People gotta get off that. Trump relied on advisor’s and most if not all of them were stabbing him in the back.
THREAD: BREAKING DOJ filed Motion for Stay pending appeal in Eleventh Circuit
2/ Big mistake: Overselling your case in opener.
3/ Ignores Judge’s position that she doesn’t have to trust DOJ on this conclusion.
4/ This is just not a persuasive argument: that a criminal investigation is essential to identifying and mitigating national-security risks.
5/ This is really what DOJ doesn’t want to do: But court required those disclosures to be consistent with protection of material. The idea it is a harm to DOJ is ridiculous–other than harm them in hiding truth or getting Trump.
6/ More bad advocacy: Don’t ignore judge’s argument or mispresent–confront it head on.
7/Just saw this which also cuts against the “months-long delay argument.” On Tuesday, court can set steps for the classified document review.
8/ Gov’t makes this point, but that President has right to have his records available cuts against claim allowing his attorney’s to review is harm to government.
9/ Again, gov’t is giving Trump an easy response by continuing to push this argument:
10/ This strikes me as “the lady doth protest too much.” Gov’t is pretending like Trump’s lawyers wouldn’t have right to review documents that would form basis of charges.
11/11 DOJ is ignoring huge harm to both Trump & public: Trust DOJ/FBI is telling truth.
Post-Twit: So what will Motion’s Panel Do? As the late, great Professor G. Bob Blakey would say: Depends on if he’s a right-knee jerk judge or a left-knee jerk judge.
FOLK: ICYMI This is hilarious! The Judge ordered the government to basically give Trump back all his documents, other than the ones marked classified!
_____
i. The Government shall do as follows:
aa. Provide to Plaintiff’s counsel copies of documents not marked as classified.
https://mobile.twitter.com/ProfMJCleveland/status/1570773588671893504
Copies of the copies that Trump had.
‘There is more than one copy of the documents.’
Multiple copies? Exactly how many copies? Besides the original documents at their originating source.
I find it how to believe that the DOJ and whoever (Lawfare and other people inside/outside government) do not have copies of these documents. 🧐
This whole thing doesn’t make sense. Reads like pulp fiction.
We talk about these “documents” like we are living in 1700’s. Anyone check the root cellar?
Sundance has noted that all the seized materials are copies. The originals remain in their respective departments in DC.
Of course the swamp rats have all the documents. They already know what’s in all of them.
This cat and mouse game is meant solely to threaten our duly elected President to prevent the rest of the world from ever seeing them, even though President Trump *already* exercised his power to declassify them.
These DC swamp TRAITORS, who Hellary said would all “hang from nooses,” should they ever face justice, are STILL trying to stuff that genie back into the bottle.
But they can’t.
This show is not for us / MAGA.
This show is for the progressive non-thinkers who obey whatever the parrots at msm tell them is truth and the actions they should take.
Okay, they don’t want the special master to see the documents. Then how about the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals review them? Lawfare will argue until and unless the “master” overseeing them is firmly under Lawfare control (like the DOJ is). I think the real objection here is that Judge Cannon gave Judge Dearie more time than they wanted him to have to review the documents. Lawfare is planning an October surprise to influence the mid-terms which is why Pelosi came out with her statement that she thinks Democrats will increase their number of seats in the House. Either she’s plotting with Lawfare (which is not only plausible but likely) and/or she knows that the Dominion machines are already programmed for the steal and that no number of poll watchers can possibly upset that apple cart. Otherwise, why are DOJ, the White House and Lawfare so afraid of someone else looking at these documents.
Another question, was there not a list of what was packed in the boxes PRIOR to the time they left the White House in January 2021? With more than 30 agents in backpacks raiding the secure room where the documents were stored (by ordering the Secret Service agents who were guarding them out of the search area), how do we know that there aren’t “nuclear documents” that have been planted within the boxes? The short answer, the long answer and the only answer is–we have to TRUST the FBI and DOJ. Now that’s a mell of a hess for President Trump! They poisoned their own investigation and now, once again, they are working feverishly to cover up their misdeeds.
At this point, the snake is backed into a corner and is looking to strike at their own judges and justices. It may be that they fear Judge Dearie because they have already lied to the FISC when he was a FISA Court Judge and he (unlike the one who nominated the AG) has his memory and reasoning ability in tact!
What you stated about the timeframe is the absolute key. DOJ/NSD/Lawfare have been rapid fire on all responses to any action from DJT that would delay them from filing some type of indictment. This is at least months of planning in the making and on a timeframe which Judge Cannon has disrupted.
It would be so great if Trump had them on a thumb drive or something like Hitlery did.
I suspect that his Attorneys do. And I suspect that this may have been, in part, what was in the safe.
But it’s speculation on my part, so who really knows?
It would appear the DOJ / all , need to drag it out thru the Nov. election hoping for surface damage for the un/ low informed voter. All 3 letter agencies have turned into cesspools.
The un/low informed voters do not know what is going on. They don’t watch the news or seek truth, they watch movies and play games. They really don’t care. They just react when “their betters” tell them to. Otherwise, they walk through life with blinders on.
It is the conservatives who are all twisted up in knots and anxiety because we know what is going on to some extent and we know we are about to lose our country.
I live in a town full of them and they are all dumb sh!ts.
The whole country is a cesspool.
“They really don’t care”. Yep, you nailed it right there. In a comment above I mentioned an on going argument with my wife over the government dictates concerning the pandemic. That has lead to me wondering what else might be lying under the surface in her thinking. I had been wondering prior based on comments from her on different actions from political players through the years. Let’s just say I was crudely keeping score.
On our recent 49th wedding anniversary I challenged her on some of her comments. And kept the pressure on since. Out of that came the admission she voted for biden, that Trump lied about something she can’t recall and that was all she needed to make her choice. Her vote was based on her heart, her main guidance through life’s tough decisions. She claims she knows nothing of bidens history, the laptop and supporting allegations of him being the big guy, the diary, the evidence of election fraud or anything else that might paint the fraud in the White House in a bad light. Her comment to me on my accusations of all that, that I was making it all up. That she doesn’t need to research much of anything before she comes to a conclusion. And with that vote her attitude now is she just doesn’t care. She made her decision, cast her vote and now turns a blind eye to the outcome.
I live in a house with one, life ain’t what it used to be. The battle continues though. I’ve yet to get her to expand her sources, she steadfastly maintains only the left and the MSM tell the truth even with me pointing out the constant lies from them. She has made the statement to me a few times that trump colluded with the russians, that there is hard proof the government is hiding and that this raid and on going battle between him, the FBI and DOJ is proof he’s guilty of something and belongs in jail. And the quicker he’s jailed the better the country will be. She’s beyond a low info voter, she’s a no info voter. And I believe there are millions more just like her.
My husband insisted to me today that the US dollar has never been stronger! He believes USA is wiping the floor with the EU, Japan and all these other countries.
I don’t know where he gets this stuff. smh
It’s always interesting to me how sloppy and ham handed these swamp rats are, when their hooey meets reality. Without the cloak always thrown over their silliness by the enemy MSM, there’d be pitchforks & torches…hmmm, that’s a thought.
Desperation aptly describes what were living through, the sad part most people are distracted by the funeral of the queen, Lord help us.
“Desperation aptly describes what were living through, the sad part most people are distracted by the funeral of the queen, Lord help us.”
“Most people” certainly doesn’t include the ones reading CTH?
I’m no longer distracted by any of that stuff. And I certainly don’t feel desperation. It’s more like resignation, because I’ve turned the steering wheel over to God.
It’s the sniveling cowards with their noses up Lucifer’s arse, to buy themselves a few more moments on this earth, who may have overplayed their hands a bit.
I sincerely believe we are living through the last gasps of humanity before the end times, and our task is to help more people find their way back to God before the hour is come. I’m trying, Lord! I’m trying!
The absurdity of how the excuse ‘national security’ can white wash over anything and everything the corrupt actors in our government wants to keep from public view, or even independent judicial review, is amazing.
don’t forget “sources and methods” and an “ongoing criminal investigation”
EO 13526 Sec. 1.7 governs classifications.
This EO makes it VERY clear that using “the excuse of national security” to “white wash” or hide ANYTHING is criminal.
Who first signed this EO that’s still in effect?
Obama. Lol.
Why? As a PR stunt to pacify his voters into believing he really was making government transparent at last. Actually, he believed the EO would ever matter since those he served would never lose control.
Bottom line, Trump and his team all know about this EO. And the DOJ ad DC schemers know that Trump knows.
The demonic DC Wile Es are starting to realize theyre hoist on their own petards.
However, everything’s being played out in real world time, not Warner Bro cartoon time.
Stay tuned. Or dont.
The sad thing is that they can go to any number of Obama appointed judges and get anything they want.
Not in Florida they can’t. That’s the brilliance of the move to MAL.
The wonderful thing is that those who believe “the sad thing” ie that the DOJ can judge and court shop their appeals, are very mistaken. 😘
… and yet this action ultimately delays justice. FJB and f**k Lawfare!
I am not even remotely understanding of lawfare except that it usually benefits someone else…
Delays justice?
Are “statutes of limitations” involved?
Are they running out certain clocks? Who benefits, deep within the swamp?
It seems to me that it’s just way too easy for government agencies like the DOJ, FBI, CIA to hide activities and cover up evidence that could make that agency accountable for what they do.
I’ve seen in congressional oversight hearings for many years that they will not answer questions or provide information because: Can’t comment on ongoing investigation, it’s classified, it could reveal sources and methods, etc.
So they basically can operate with no oversight or accountability for what they do. Just Trust us to do the right and legal things in the interest of the country. That trust, IMO, has been eroded and there must be some ability for review of their activities.
To me, if they claim not being able to reveal information because of information being classified and could jeopardize an activity and that turns out to be just a cover up the that individual should be charged with perjury or something to make them accountable.
Using the word “accountability” reminds me of a Treeper’s post within the last several weeks somewhere on one of the branches here…or a mild variation…
Accountability happens in tyranny.
Responsibility, with freedom.
Good point! But I have seen people say they take full responsibility, Janet Reno and Ruby Ridge comes to mind, and nothing comes of it. And, there have been others that say they take full responsibility for some controversial events and then you hear nothing again about the matter.
Fortunately those with eyes to see are watching Team Trump nuke the derp states ability to use classifications.
For years the DC derps have been illegally using lies about muh tHrEaTs to nAtiOnAl sEcuRitY to keep Americans in the dark about what DC derp state demonics are up to.
Dark to Light. Dear vampires, the Don is coming.
No, the DOJ, does’t want their illegal and shoddy work reviewed.
Donald Trump on Charlie Rose, 1992: “The Cannon Was Me” – YouTube
Great clip. Despite countless viewings I love it more rather than less every time I’ve watched it.
God bless the incredibly fascinating Real Trump.
I feel so sorry for those who actually believe the Establishment created make believe Trump is real. They’re missing out on or misunderstanding so much plus wasting time and health unnecessarily fretting about so much.
“All of those rationales are categorically inapplicable to the records bearing classification markings.” – DOJ motion
Bearing in mind what Sundance wrote – that all of these paper documents are COPIES of originals held by the agency which authored them – DOJ pretends that declassification is impossible.
That is, once stamped with a classification category, that particular copy is forever classified according to DOJ, even if PDJT initiated the declassification procedure (he did) or even completed it.
Once a document is declassified, the originating agency will cross out the classified markings on the original, as we have seen in many examples already posted. But can an ex-president be expected to hire a clerk to amend his copies in the same way? Or is an ex-president obliged to destroy his copies and obtain new ones from the agencies with their ‘declassified’ markings?
Many assume that this is a carefully managed process. My assumption, from watching government operations over the years, is that it’s probably sloppy and haphazard.
Like the former Soviet regime, the Fourth Branch is deeply threatened by the existence of photocopiers, and probably would like to ban them … for ‘national security.’
MSM narrative: “Trump is dragging this out to delay his prosecution, and fat cats like Trump always find a way to avoid prosecution”
The ole rules-are-for-other-people notion.
Funny that… no one in the Deep State gets prosecuted for their political targeting of the Trump administration.
“Fat cats…always find a way to avoid prosecution”.
While Hillary and Stacy ARE ” fat cats” it appears that the demonic cats of all sizes and weights are starting to realize that MSM narrative may no longer be true.
The increasingly common narcissistic rages and the spreading panic in DC is deeply satisfying to watch.
Another problem the DOJ has with the Classified Documents case they are attempting to build against Trump is their use of the ESPIONAGE ACT. There are two statutes that could be used to prosecute someone for mishandling classified information. One is 18 USC 1924, and the other is one of the Espionage Act’s different subparagraphs (18 USC 793 (a-f). As of now, DOJ is using 18 USC 793 (d). That might not be the applicable subparagraph IF any of the documents found at Mar-a-Lago turn out to be still classified to one degree or the other.
The subparagraph (d) refers to a defendant KNOWINGLY maintaining classified documents and not storing them in a proper facility. IF any of those documents found at Mar-a-Lago are actually still classified, it is not established that those documents got to Mar-a-Lago INTENTIONALLY, but could have gotten into those boxes by accident. There is a lot of evidence that this is what happened.
This evidence points toward the only possible case that could be prosecuted, under the Espionage Act, for any possible classified documents at Mar-a-Lago is for “Gross Negligence,” which is the part of the statute JAMES COMEY used when he pretended to investigate HILLARY CLINTON for, not only “her emails,” but how she managed the SENSITIVE COMPARTMENTED INFORMATION FACILITIES (SCIFs) constructed in both of her mansions.
In Attorney Corcoran’s letter, attached to the affidavit for search warrant, Corcoran explained why Trump could not be prosecuted under 18 USC 1924–It applies only to “Officers, employees, contractors, etc.” of the US Government. A President is NOT an officer as the President APPOINTS officers. This left the Espionage Act as the only statute under which Trump could be charged. Hillary Clinton, as Secretary of State, could have been charged under 18 USC 1924, but Comey chose the Espionage Act. Next we will see a possible reason WHY he chose the Espionage Act’s Gross Negligence paragraph (f). Basically, most federal judges hate it to the point their decisions have created case law that modified paragraph (f) to require INTENT, to some degree, and proof of damage done to the US, or an advantage given to a foreign power, as a result of the negligence in handling classified information.
During the Hillary “investigation” commentators would frequently cite convictions of defendants under the Espionage Act’s Gross Negligence paragraph. The favorite was a US Navy sailor on a submarine that took a photo with his cell phone inside the submarine. He either lost or disposed of the phone without deleting the photo and was court martialed under the Espionage Act’s gross negligence provision. The sailor was convicted, but that was under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), not in a civilian US District Court, nor in a US Court of Appeals. When Googling “Successful Prosecutions Under Espionage Act for Gross Negligence,” it is UCMJ convictions you will see in the response. I couldn’t find one civilian convicted under the US Criminal Code.
A Marine Sergeant named Roller was convicted in a case I think is closest to the Mar-a-Lago case. Roller hastily packed the contents of his desk, which included classified documents. When he discovered his error, he decided to shred them, but was reported before he could do it and was court martialed under UCMJ, which takes “NO INTENT NECESSARY” seriously. Federal civilian court judges do not as the case law sets limits on that paragraph of the Espionage Act, as described above, which explains every case of gross negligence that resulted in a conviction being UCMJ cases.
Eventually, gross negligence will have to be seen by the evidence that has already been publicly reported about the contents of those boxes. Some of Trump’s attorneys will, sooner or later, come with that argument IF it becomes verified that some of those documents were NOT declassified. Once DOJ has to charge under 18 USC 793 (f) instead of (d) or (e), they will be up against serious hurdles in getting a conviction, as in Comey’s argument, “No prosecutor would bring charges in this case…”
Sources:
Roller Case: https://scmoorelaw.com/military-appellate-courts-address-gross-negligence-in-the-handling-of-classified-materials-in-the-1995-case-of-united-states-v-roller/
Espionage Act and Gross Negligence: https://warontherocks.com/2016/07/why-intent-not-gross-negligence-is-the-standard-in-clinton-case/
18 USC 1924: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1924
18 USC 793: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/793
The one thing that blows up your theory is that the Espionage Act does not apply to the President.
Yep! While in office, President Trump could have (and did) simply wave his hands and state “Everything I take to Mar-A-Lago is automatically declassified,” and boom, it would have been.
And was.
And is.
I’m glad PDJT’s lawyers have been smart enough so far never to accept any assertion to the contrary.
Hans Mahncke is always dumping on Trump’s lawyers as inept. But I can’t understand why?
They handed over MARKED documents as if conceding they were still classified. I don’t think ANYONE knows if any of them are, or are NOT, still classified. There is no way any of us can know that. I’m sure some, if not most, were declassified since I am convinced (up to 95%) that the documents found in his office were:
They were all top secret, super duper classified WH dessert recipes. Trump should hang for treason for bringing those to MLG and hiding them in his wife’s panty drawer.
The observation that belief is the enemy of understanding, may help explain why “Mahncke is always dumping on Trumps lawyers”.
Probably because he is.
Trump ordered them declassified and sent that memo to Barr whom he had delegated to communicate in good faith with DOJ then get it done.
Bart never completed the task – so were the docs actually declassified or not?
He’s not President now. He can’t charged under 18 USC 1924 because he was President and not an officer or employee. He has not been President since then, which is why their only hope is that he is chargeable under the Espionage Act. Since DOJ/FBI referenced that statute in the search warrant application, it is apparent the prosecution thinks they can, but they are trying to avoid the paragraph I mentioned. The NEWSWEEK article discusses that possibility, but also quotes a statement by Trump that verifies hasty packing theory:
“Trump did not deny the story at the time, saying it was a mix-up because his staff hastily moved him out of the White House. He also said he was cooperating to return the materials.”
If they have to charge under “gross negligence” I don’t think it will go anywhere. Too hard to bring off a successful prosecution.
Excellent, thank you for the detailed information!
DOJ is stuck. If they can’t charge under (a-e) they have to go with (f), and then won’t be able to convict without element of INTENT and PROOF of damage to US or advantage to a foreign power. A Brian Auten “assessment” won’t make “proof.” They have to prove at least one of the papers fell into foreign hands and hurt us/helped them.
They won’t be able to do that. Plus they have to explain the Hillary Clinton declination.
Praise the Lord President Trump moved to Florida! Now the only thing left is can Lawfare get it to the Supreme Court and get Kavanagh to side with Roberts and the lefties?
If this Special Master (judge) is allowed to look at the ‘copies’ (not redacted at all), can he then request /order to see the originals?
They are the exact same thing. He is not seeing anything new, right?
It seems that would be a prudent and judiciousness thing to do? 🤔
I suppose, but this would drag on to the elections, which would advantage the left, and we want this nonsense resolved before then.
IMO, that is exactly what the jackals want: To drag this on to the elections.
If the DOJ knew that things would go as they have…..would the raid at Mar-A-Lago even have happened?
Good question, but zealots never consider reality or reason.
Two years at Mar-a-Lago and not one leak to press about contents of documents.
Less than one month document’s are in possession of FBI and there has been multiple leaks.
You be judge of where the more secure location is.
Hopefully. PDJT’s attorneys will be pointing this out as well. Some of the leaked documents may have been plants for all we know. And the raid was the ground work to allow the leaks of those documents.
Again, speculation on my part.
They did all of this to secure 100 documents? I think they went on a fishing expedition and only got nibbles and few snagged lines. I suspect they are hiding these 100 just to continue to justify the raid and keep it in the news. They know that they will look ridiculous (or guilty) when everyone knows what it is they are protecting.
They already look ridiculous.
There is something in those 100 documents they really, really do not want anyone seeing.
Maybe, especially, not Judge Dearie?
What if they got a few more hot docs than they bargained for when they did the grab? What if President Trump possessed, and slipped to them, something truly explosive that they never intended to have official custody of in a public way?
Now they have it, they can’t get rid of it (because destruction of evidence,
destruction of government property, obstruction of justice), Dearie is going to see it and maybe find it was declassified and should be returned to President Trump, and then he can release it, having been given full blessing and protection from further legal action by the DOJ, courtesy of their own desperate document grab?
Hot potato hot potato.
The DOJ/FBI is panicking.
From above, “……….when you apply commonsense the motion fails on its face.”
It occurred to me, if commonsense was applied to the law, things would be much better. But, as we know, any legal proceeding uses prior legal findings as precedent of some sort. I’m sure this is regardless if the previous legal finding used in a current filing was itself overturned later at a higher level to include SCOTUS. The goal is to stall and move slowly.
I would be curious how many times an historical legal precedent used in a situation was later itself overturned somewhere to include SCOTUS. I’ve always just assumed when a legal thing is going on that the prior legal finding used was the final step of that particular trail. I hope this training of thought is clear.
I would think that if one side uses a basically obsolete and overturned source they would be censured and quickly thrown out of court with prejudice. That would of course require a completely honest judiciary top to bottom.
“……assumed the legal thing used was the last top legally successful non overturned historical finding…”
The precedent is Bill Clinton’s sock drawer.
Was it Bill’s or Barack’s?
From all this effort I think the FBI got the crossfire papers and they are going to keep them so Trump cant have any copy to push his case.
The copy they took from Trump during Raidgate =/= all the copies of “the copy” Trump might have. Somewhere.
Once
SC Justices Thomas oversees the 11th! DOJ has been exposed LYING again! No more high-tech lynching! Theme song SC Justices Thomas
Maybe this situation is very simple. The FBI guys found nothing classified when they searched Mara Largo.
They want complete control of the documents they took from Trump so they can make things up.
My favorite source on all this is Mike Davis. Here’s his latest Gettr comment:
Biden DOJ files emergency motion with 11th Circuit to stay Judge Cannon’s special master order.
First sentence proves DOJ still has willful misunderstanding of Presidential Records Act.
Trump has statutory right to take and keep his presidential records, even classified.
Deny.
statutory responsibility does NOT trump constitutional authority
Since when, in the last 2 six years, has Executive os Congress worked within Constitutional authority?
because this lawless government decides not to abide by this restrictive document does not eliminate it…..the Founding Fathers saw the evil intent that men imposed on one another so purposely put a LIMITING framework in place on the government to protect the rights of the people….that we as the electorate have been asleep at the switch does not change the nature of the relationship
I wonder….by doing all of this now…
Kind of ‘loosely rewriting’ the laws….
Are they setting up some sort of ‘precedent’ to protect Bribem’s documents in the future?
I think they’re mainly just throwing lawfare spaghetti against the wall.
And boy does it reek.
Mike Davis, did an extended review on this topic while on the War Room this morning. I have a copy with noway to upload to this site. Perhaps Sundance can upload?
Short Version Link
It sounds as if this could get the backs up, of the judiciary on the “outside”. It’s pretty insulting, when you think about it.
Mike Davis made the point that they did not endear their stinky selves to the judge by asking her to reverse her own previous decision.
This is interesting if true:
https://nyadagbladet.se/utrikes/shocking-document-how-the-us-planned-the-war-and-energy-crisis-in-europe/
The RAND Corporation?
Well, wouldn’t be the first time. Of course, the Russians are good at concocting these things so I am being cautious. I’m ex-NSA from 55 years ago when we spied on the USSR and their allies, not the American people.
This seems poorly written. For example, we read, “the entire economy of the entire EU economy will inevitably collapse.” There are other examples. I would guess that this is fake, although the scenario seems to be playing out before our very eyes. Germany has had to restart coal plants in desperation. That is a hard pill to swallow for the Greenies. Even so, this is probably some subterfuge.
Marc Elias and gang worked overtime to come up with this tripe?
Lawfare and the FBI need to be raided.
All this BS is like watching a movie with the volume turned down…
There is probably another Constitutional argument to be made: the return portion of “read and return” does not apply to the president. As the elected chief of the executive branch of government, the president has the right of ownership to any work product from that branch.
I don’t see how the marketing department of a company can claim the CEO can’t retain a copy of their latest focus group finding. Certainly, that’s even clearer with the chain of command delineated in the Constitution.
The intention of this is to grind people down, it is extremely difficult to believe that many people can or will follow the details of this operation. Since most people don’t or won’t follow this closely, they gravitate to the narrative engineers in the MSM/Big Tech.
Why don’t republicans get legally medieval when they are in power like the democrats do?
Well Robert…..
It is simple.
They are ALL in on it. They all have dirt on each other. They are all in this together.
They all have skeletons and years of corruption to hide from prying eyes.
President Trump is the crowbar…..
Yep. Epstein was not a one-off.
How many republicans are really republicans?
There’s no GOP Senators that I have faith in.
There’s probably 3 or 4 GOP members of the House of Representatives that I would trust to do the right thing.
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🇺🇸Sundance!
It appears you were up all night and posted this early this am.
Thank you. God Bless You🙏
Lawfare and the Intelligence Community are convinced that no one can touch them They are wrong, but their arrogance is evident in this legal argument. As Sundance notes, they are talking about copies of original documents that the President declassified. These documents are precisely what a Special Master should look at and evaluate.
The raid on Mar a Lago must have been decided and planned by Lawfare types as well.
Even Merrick Garland must have some sense of the law while busy breaking it. An illegal general warrant on a former President? Desperate or daring or par for the course with these guys?
I think Obama must be at risk of exposure in these documents, as well as Hillary and so many more. Bill Barr has been looking very oafish in his appearances lately as well. He is not stupid, yet seems obtuse on the law.
None of these people ever thought a Republican , a man like Trump could win the Presidency. They thought they were hiding forever in plain sight and could do any criminal thing they pleased.
This argument should fail on appeal, I would think. Maybe this over reach will break the stranglehold Lawfare and the Intelligence Community seem to have on our government by bringing this blatant power grab into the sunlight.
By the way, Trump should see Obama at the memorial for Queen Elizabeth being held here in the States? Obama knows Trump knows and soon we all will know just what happened.
As was said, those documents have been at MarLogo for 2 years. AND President Trumps crew packed them up with APPROVAL once he left the white house. IT’S ANOTHER BS SCAM FROM THE LEFT!! The documents are NULL! NOTHING TO FIND! This is just DESPERATION from the left because THEY KNOW PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL WIN THE PRESIDENCY and they are desperate to stop him! 100% PRESIDENT TRUMP 2024👍🇺🇲🇺🇲❤️🇺🇲👍🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
The next step for the DOJ is “OOPS, we lost the documents, sorry.”.
That is the beauty of having declassified the materials involved.
There are NO limits as to copies being made and there are NO requirements to track said copies.
BINGO.
Meep. MAGA. Meep.
So now we wait to find out whether or not the 11th Circuit is corrupted by the Swamp.
Key to all I have read is that the review by the Special Master has NOT been stopped, yet.
The next shoe to fall will be the filing of a request for injunction until the 11th Circuit decides something. They can judge shop for this one to get the Injunction and then force an appeal on the Injunction even before any action by the 11th Circuit on the actual appeal by DoJ.
Sundance very accurately points out that the DoJ’s arguments are childish at best trying push some sort of non-existent “rule” based on originals. The President does not have to hold the “original” to classify or declassify any materials.
The interesting part is if the DoJ holds an original (or a copy) of a document declassified by President Trump, which is still marked as “classified to some level”, then the owner of that original or copy actually committed a minor technical violation of handling rules for improper marking and reporting.
The 11th Circuit includes: 3 Obama Judges and 1 Clinton Judge in the Judicial super market for the DoJ. As is their publicly stated habit, Obama and Holder are calling upon ALL 4 Judges as we speak.
They can cause even more delay by forcing rounds of appeals on the Injunction before the actual appeal of Judge Cannon’s decision by the DoJ is even considered. Meanwhile, the special master will have to stop.
Just a theory of mine.
It could be the FBI is so desperate because they have deleted, or destroyed the evidence of their sedition in the Russian hoax.
Being that President Trump has copies of the evidence of their sedition is what is scaring them to death.
Those 100 pages must be one hell of neck stretcher for some people in DC.
The conspirators are trying so hard to hide those documents. It is not sources and methods, it is evidence that they have evidence of their coup attempt
This is an edcuated guess based on the childish “originals” arguments made by the DoJ.
MATERIAL CONTENT CHANGES to classified materials have to be reflected in the ORIGINAL before they are considered an official part of the material being changed. Then there is a process to circulate the changes to holders of ALL copies. To do otherwise is to create an entirely NEW CLASSIFIED item, tracked by its own assigned ID Number. In a word, the two documents are technically NOT the same document if a new ID Number is assigned.
As an aside recall, the FBI has no restrictions on changing their FBI Form 302 used as evidence by the courts, which records their investigations and interviews. They have been caught already by the OIG, folks here on CTH, Media Reporters and members of congress making changes to those “official” records. I suspect allot of the FBI’s evidence vs Darchenko is editted FBI Form 302’s.
Now circle back to the 100 classified documents. I suspect these clowns have been altering the originals and NOT circulating the changes, as required while the documents classified. This is also the reason President Trump’s orders to declassify were ignored by DoJ and Intel Community, while he was in office. The Special Master will want to see to those Originals as part of his review and associated: log, tracking, orders, et al.
More than the content of the “Copies” involved will be exposed.
I like your thought process on this mess also.
The FBI is notorious for fabricating evidence
Plus, if the Master discovers changes were made to originals and NOT circulated as required, the “Copies” confiscated by the FBI at Mar-Lago are TECHNICALLY NO LONGER the same document as the “Originals” held by the FBI and DoJ.
The DoJ’s whole case falls apart and technically the holder of those “Originals” violated rules by not following through to bring the NEW document under control of the system with NEW ID Number. In an “honest world”, the owners of the Documents, the DoJ and FBI “should be” in allot of trouble on this matter.
Yes–what if the Actual President had copies of documents that no longer existed?
It seems unlikely only because Germans are meticulous record-keepers.
The Nazi’s might be learning to not leave evidence that can get them hanged.
Lois is a slow Lerner.
Nice one. LOL
Consider that historically, even among “partners” in evil, there remains a very high level of mistrust and competition among them.
Plus, for some perverse reason the leadership of evil movements like to brag as well as record “how we did it”.
Thus archiving of “evidence” by some member of the evil movement will always occur.
There is also the desire to ruin President Trump and the scheme to frame the President has blown up due to the very same rules the coup participants are attempting to use against President Trump.
Words of wisdom.
I have always liked reading your comments.
I always learn a way to look at things in another light. This is why the Treehouse is number one on critical thinking.
I agree, Johnny. As I have been reading through this thread, at first everything (except from Sundance) was speculation, but then as people continue to comment, it gets down to the “nitty gritty” and the guesses become more real and a possible truth becomes visible. Smart people feeding off of other smart people. I suspect there is more than a little truth in some of these comments.
The deep state I believe, spends 50 percent of its time involved in criminal activity, and 50 percent of its time fearing exposure.
They’re nontemporal bi-textuals. And often late to work.
Since, oh, about November of 1963.
These DOJ ppl are worried about themselves not the country. It’s so apparent!
Perfect statement and observation
Obviously the October surprise – was to be the indictment of Trump(they all say it) – and the documents obtained in the raid were to be the linchpin of some process crime or the seating of alternative electors – Insurrection! Sedition! Of course, it will ultimately fail, like all the other BS, but Lawfare & the DNC would have the headline for the midterms. A vote for a republican – is treason and sedition! Our Democracy! And those people flying Ukrainian flags and getting boosted will believe – because it’s the ‘next big thing.’ Our media sucks.
I find it teeth grindingly frustrating to see the NSD – repeating that mantra: “A court order lawful search warrant.” Like this is some end all and be all laundry mat – and Comey says this line all the time too. And we can all respect that NSD would never abuse the ex parte process of obtaining that warrant – and of course this is doubly true in its pet ‘top secret’ FISA court – where the IG has reported 100s (1000’s?) of violations of keeping the ‘Woods” file for the FISA warrants. Hey, we buffaloed a judge with our ex parte affiants – and got the warrant – so it’s all perfectly fine.
Judge Boastburg should have gone volcanic on Klinesmith for submitting doctored evidence – nope – he didn’t do anything or suffer any consequence. The grim fact is the FISA process has failed. And the gang of 8 structure is not working either.
Boasberg is just another Regime fixer in a black dress. Integrity fled long ago.
FISA = Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act .
It should be called the DIPSHIT Court: Domestic Intelligence and Political Surveillance Act.
Gipper
You are on a roll today.
Keep hammering away. You are spot on and let no one convince you different
Wow. You have a gift of writing that makes it easy to understand the crimes committed against the Constitution
Thank you
The problem is, as I’m sure most Treepers know, we have turned away from God. He is The Source of ALL Truth and Justice—both of which are in short supply here in the US at this point in time.
There must be some really damning info in these docs, but I’m not sure it really matters.
Even if released in full unredacted form, proving the 4th branch was spying on DJT, many people would say he deserved it. Others would shrug their shoulders and go back to watching football. People like us who have known the whole time will be vindicated.
And then what? Is the 4th branch going to prosecute themselves? What is really going to change?
The western world has been taken over by communist/fascist/radicals/whatevers that have infiltrated our governments, media, churches, businesses, schools and everything else that has it’s hand on the levers of power. They are on a coordinated kamikaze mission to destroy everything so they can ‘build back better’.
We aren’t going to vote our way out of this. Prepare accordingly.
The ONLY way to even possibly turn this is a national antenna accessible TRUTHFUL broadcast television network. Many millions still learn their “position” on issues through the influence of our socialist/marxist MSM.
Trump couldn’t even get two minutes on national tv to explain what he knew following 11/3/2020. This idiocy “possibly” could have been stopped already.
And such a network would have half the total US viewership in one week, plus the ad revenues. JACKPOT
I would think Trump or his lawyers have another copy of these documents.
My guess is the 4th branch suspects lots of people may have copies. That’s why they are going after his lawyers and close supporters. Note the 35 warrants last week. They are trying to get their arms around every copy they can.
Must be some really good stuff lol….