First, a follow-up. In further support of CTH view of the Trump legal strategy, a bolstering prior media notation is worthy. In regard to the intent of the Trump -v- Clinton lawsuit a lawyer for President Trump told media: “Habba later said she might appeal the decision, and also that Trump had told her that the case would ultimately not be a winner and she should just drop it. “I said no. We have to fight. It’s not right what happened. And you know, he was right.” {source} This expressed perspective from Trump -via a member of his legal team- supports our contention that creating the lawsuit as a vehicle to legally share documentary evidence and establish a silo (attny-client privilege) was the goal, not the actual outcome of the lawsuit itself.
Remember, the DOJ National Security Division (DOJ-NSD) was created by Barack Obama and Eric Holder to weaponize a relationship between Main Justice (DOJ) and the Intelligence Community (IC). Within this structure, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) now used their newly created agency to monitor domestic political opposition under the guise of domestic threat surveillance. [The Eye of Sauron]
Within the system they created, the DOJ-NSD collaborates with the newly established authorities of the DNI, which includes their unilateral authority to define documents they consider “classified.” The intent is to conduct lawfare against the domestic target while both agencies shield their efforts under claims of national security.
That is the encapsulated modern mission and relationship between the DOJ-NSD and the Intelligence Community (ODNI). These are the two main pillars of the corrupt national surveillance state that exist based on collapsed oversight, as a result of ideological support from the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence. This is the weaponized fourth branch of government.
Now we turn to today. Lawyers for President Trump submit a responsive filing to counter the DOJ effort to stay court order for a ‘special master.’ [Motion pdf Here].
The position of the DOJ-NSD, a position that should be considered in alignment with the ODNI, is that no outsider should be permitted to review their work product. The DOJ does not want a court appointed special master to review what they are unilaterally declaring as “classified national security documents.”
The current legal position of Main Justice aligns with the fundamental precept of their corrupt lawfare creation. In latin it would be “Lex est quod dico,” the law is what I say it is. In the view of the current DOJ-NSD and intelligence apparatus represented by the ODNI, the classifications of Trump documents are what we say they are. They will accept no outside scrutiny from the courts or others upon their arbitrary evaluation. Yes, Lawfare is that arrogant.
The attorney’s representing President Trump dismisses the notion of an omnipotent Main Justice being able to make arbitrary determinations and definitions to suit their Lawfare interests. The people running the DOJ-NSD are not “inviolable”, or above reproach.
As we noted yesterday, in order to protect the documents held at Mar-a-Lago from the corrupt intent of the DOJ to confiscate and bury them, Team Trump built a framework for legal review of the documents as well as silos using attorney-client privilege.
Calling the Lawfare agents and ODNI operatives “bureaucratic components” of the executive branch is likely to make them big mad. From the perspective of the DOJ-NSD ideologues, how dare Donald Trump question the authorities of their power. However, if you peel all the skin from this legal ruse, President Trump’s lawyers hold the accurate viewpoint.
[PDF of court motion Here]
(Via Wall Street Journal) – WASHINGTON—Lawyers for former President Donald Trump pressed a federal judge to allow an independent attorney to review all of the documents the FBI seized in its search of Mar-a-Lago, including those marked classified, saying they didn’t trust the Justice Department to accurately represent what was in them.
“The Government has not proven these records remain classified. That issue is to be determined later,” Mr. Trump’s lawyers wrote in a Monday morning filing to U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon, who last week ordered the appointment of a special master in the matter.
They disputed the status of around 100 documents marked as classified, which the Justice Department had signaled were central to a criminal investigation, providing their most specific arguments yet to counter prosecutors’ request to continue evaluating the documents for national-security concerns.
“In opposing any neutral review of the seized materials, the Government seeks to block a reasonable first step towards restoring order from chaos and increasing public confidence in the integrity of the process,” the Trump legal team said.
Separately, Mr. Trump’s lawyers and prosecutors later on Monday are expected to comment on each others’ candidates for the special-master role. (more)
I want that illustration of Trump in Mordor. Very befitting to our cuttent life, and I see him as our saviour, not in the Biblical sense though. That belongs to Jesus Christ.
Trump knows what evil there is for us, and he is fighting to retain our freedoms. God be with him.
Not “Savior” so much as heroic, victorious WARRIOR.
President Trump is our Shogun.
I like that one also. Thanks.
He’s our Samson.
トラムプ大将がんべれ!!!
….and one worthy of following to the end.
President Trump is our Godzilla.
Yup, that works for me too. Thanks.
Maybe Trump as ‘redeemer’ of our lost rights?
Hard to deny it’s true.
We hope and pray there is no actual crucifixion (Marxists can never be underestimated!), but this on-going, never-ending persecution of him is certainly a crucifixion of another sort, to which he willingly submits for us, the beneficiaries of his sacrifice.
QUITE BIBLICAL, IF YOU ASKED ME!
Agree! In the book The Paradigm by Jonathan Cahn in chapter 20 titled The Warrior President Trump is compared to Jehu. The prophet Elijah was to told to anoint Jehu as king over Israel. Jehu was a warrior. “As Jehu was a man of controversy, so too was Donald Trump. To the governmental status quo, the political status quo, and the cultural status quo he was a threat-a destabilizing force.” Interesting book!
Jack Bauer ( from “24”) or Reese from “Terminal List”.
right click on it and “save image as”… I would go with .Jpeg
Donald J Trump
is
a
Very Stable Genius
———————————
President Donald J Trump
is
MAGA King 👑
✝️❤️🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 ❣️
———————————-
🥁🥁🥁
The BEST
IS
Coming
🎷🎸🎻
To expect self-denial from men when they have a majority in their favor and consequently power to gratify themselves is to disbelieve all history and universal experience used to disbelieve revelation and the word of God which informs us the “ heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked”. There is no man so blind as not to see that to talk of founding a government upon a supposition that nations and great bodies of men left to themselves will practice a course of self-denial is either to babble like a newborn infant or to deceive like an unprincipled impostor. John Adams
Are you not entertained?!!
With our President Trump, there is never a dull moment. Just the mere fact that he flew his plane into DC last night has the Liberal Loons hollowing at the moon.
<…the Liberal Loons hollowing at the moon.>
Causing a Looner Eclipse 🙂
So the Hollow Earth Theory has been eclipsed by that of a Hollow Moon?
The liberal loons howling at the moon = loonertic
To the looner bin with all of ’em! (I may not be far behind, though)
“‘Got to keep the loonies on the path”- Pink Floyd- “Dark Side Of The Moon”
looner-licious.
😂🤣😂🤣
The comments were hysterical..literally. They were like OMG
he was arrestedhe didn;t even have time to change his shoes…
Look no one is shaking his hand or greeting him…his pants are
too long he must not be wearing lifts in his shoes
(yes that is an actual comment) people were hoping he was in
custody of arrested since he arrived dressed in his golf clothes
and golf shoes. then he was carrying
something in his hands.. some thought maybe they are medical
records and he is going to Walter Reed, but most just hoped he
was detained or arrested.
I missed that. Do you have a link?
I did not know our President had a golf course on the Potomac River in Va, but he does. That is where Trump was going, according to Boris Epshteyn on the Warroom today. The course is in good shape according to a reliable source that spoke with Boris.
They don’t want Trump anywhere near DC. It messes with their narrative that he’s irrelevant & done with. He’s not!
Give’em Hell President Trump!!!
I get the feeling that all of this is drifting towards the need for the SCOTUS to weigh in.
And, that’s not exactly reassuring.
Hi Bama:
I agree this needs to go to the SC.
I am more optimistic than you are. John Roberts has been very good on matters pertaining to curtailing abuses of power by the Administrative State.
I think there would be a majority of justices who would affirm the DOJ cannot hold absolute and unquestioned authority over the documents in question.
And I should have added, I am no fan of the Chief.
I will give him praise in this one area. For whatever reason, he seems not to have his usual prissy concerns about how the DC mob-media complex will react to unfavorable rulings related to these matters.
Above politics, CJ Roberts cares more about his legacy. He does not want the historians to write that Roberts lost scotus to the dem politicians. He wants his independent judiciary. He wants it more than his moderate milquetoast nature.
I would hope so. I always thought the DOJ was part of the Executive Branch and that the President of the U. S. was the head of that branch. I guess the DOJ thinks they are part of the “Intelligence Branch”. I don’t remember that branch from my high school government classes. (Ok, so it was a long time ago …)
This would be true as long as they are not susceptible to blackmail and extortion due to information gotten from illegal spying.
I don’t know why. This is now the THOMAS Court, NOT the Roberts Court, as the last session demonstrated.
Some of the issues that are coming out of this are so clear cut, I can’t see the decision “going the other way”; Biden waving Executive Priviledge for PDJT, if allowedto stand, eviscerates the whole premise OF Executive priviledge,..I can’t see SCOTUS rubber stamping THAT.
4th amendment violation, ditto. And either of these brings “fruit of the forbidden tree” into the mix, also SCOTUS territory.
They did absolutely nothing to stop the steal or even question it. Hence my lack of confidence.
I think the SC position on the steal was that it was in the States’ hands. The States failed us.
WE failed, as when the 10th amendment talks about powers reserved to the States and the people, it envisions THE PEOPLE (thats US!) being far more involved in local and State elections, and in the actions OF our State Governments.
And therefore, of our State Governments vigorously defending STATES rights as the Peoples representatives.
No, the Republican Party failed us. They were/are worse than the Dems. When Dem guvs/sec states were ILLEGALLY changing voting requirements/processes/law, Republicans in those state either had their heads up theirs azzes and/or aided and abetted the Dems. The GOP worked behind PDJT’s back to thwart his agenda every chance they could. When it came time to stand up to the cheat the GOP went quisling on us. The SCROTUM, another line of defense, did same. It’s not about PDJT, it’s about the millions of us that voted for him. It is/was us that they spit on.
This is all about protecting the Republican elites. When Senator Warner talks about people being put at risk for physical harm he is referring to Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, John McCain (did he die???), George W Bush, and other republican elites. It wan’t just democrats who caused the Russia Gate scandal. When people find out about the extent of the involvement of republicans, there will be a risk that some crazy will do them harm.
We must stand proud for our Republican Party. It is not a monolith and the McConnells, Romneys, et. al. are a minority.
The vast majority – an increasing majority, in fact – are MAGA. Many have put their lives, their freedom, their careers, their reputations on the line by standing up against Dems and RINOS.
I am proud to call myself a Republican.
Actually, Justice Thomas disagreed with that, at least with regard to the lawsuit from PA where the Governor and State Supreme Court overran the State Legislature on election rules/procedures. That was a case where there was no other way of settling it but by the Scotus. But the majority punted.
Very intriguing scenario: Team Biden denying executive privilege to Team Trump. Turnabout could be a strategy.
Then Team Trump may be able to do the same to Team Clinton/Obama (/Biden as an infected appendix) in later action, but that’s sure to be contested by the Loonies…
Retroactive reclassification is an absurdity only applicable to Trump. There is no privilege if it can be annulled by the subsequent office holder (I couldn’t bring myself to say president FJB). And laws can’t apply retroactively.
I agree.
Yet the Occupant-in-Chief and his handlers are only too eager to break all the rules…under the guise of applying the rules to 45 and his supporters.
What do we do when they shred the Constitution while wrapping themselves and their dirty deeds in it? Do we continue to bind ourselves to the law when the Regime breaks the same law as a matter of SOP?
I think we have to…we just have to be smarter. Given the Regime’s track record so far, that isn’t necessarily difficult. But it requires pluck, steadfastness, and faith.
Thanks for setting me straight on retroactivity. 🤠🇺🇸
Oh, I wasn’t trying to set you straight! I’m complaining about FJB having miraculous powers never held by a president before, such as federal vax mandates and revoking presidential privilege retroactively.
All good nonetheless! 😁
FJB is the Pol Pot of Hugo Chavez-es…
Miss Lindsey and the Turtles won’t allow that.
F both of them.
Agree. I would think the DOJ-NSD would not want this to get to the SCOTUS with a 6-3 court. It will now be interesting to see how they keep it from getting there. They are so deep in corrupt behavior in this case trying to cover up their past corrupt behavior that they continue digging a deeper hole for themselves. A SCOTUS ruling against Garland would destroy what minutiae amount of credibility he ever had.
Their attempt to get rid of Trump will fail and only make him stronger.
They will do their best to make sure Thomas has to recuse because Wifey
was involved in the Jan 6th nonsense.. That is why they are so interested
in dragging her into this..
I don’t think a judge “has to” recuse. He may or may not. Thomas will not.
They can only make a fuss about it. They cannot make him do it.
The only remedy would be Impeachment for failure to recuse. Talk about destroying institutions, just try that one on for size.
MSM would push Thomas recusal 24/7 but He probably has an elephant memory from his confirmation hearing and still wanting a taste of payback. Recusing himself?
Nnnnnnah.
They have to support executive privilege because without it, there is no basis for the same consideration for the judiciary or for congress.
All papers any time can be seized if they let this occur.
I believe Sotomayor would dissent, and I’d love to read her legal opinion on that one 🙄
Getting to SC takes time.
The last thing DOJ wants is this issue to drag on, they don’t seem to be a big fan of sunshine.
Or, losing the midterms.
No, the real timing on all this, is to have these legal cases resolve before 2024.
That way, as the enemies arguments to prevent PDJT from being on the ballot, due to “muh insurrection” are reaching a crescendo, Team Trump responds with;
“Insurrection? INSURRECTION! I’LL show you an INSURRECTION! In fact, I’ll show you an ATTEMPTED COUP!”
And to think some here actually question whether PDJT is running, lol.
A case can be rushed, if it’s important enough.
Does it not then go before which ever justices district the issue is filed for them to decide if it has merit for the full court?
No, the full court votes. The sole justice thing is whether to grant a stay in the meantime.
If there is ever going to be the chance to neuter the doj/nsd this is it. Nowhere in any part of the US Constitution is a runaway entity of the US government allowed more authority than the President himself
Nowhere does the Constitution, in enumerated powers, give the Federal Govt Police Powers; to detain, search or arrest anyone.
Given they specifically enumerate powers to the Fed government, one would think IF they envisioned the Fed Government having the biggest power of all, they would have enumerated it.
They did not want the Fed Gov to have plenary police power for obvious reasons.
For sake of comparison, recall the 2020 BLM/Antifa riots…VSGPDJT largely refrained from deploying National Guard to strife-torn cities because of that very consideration. Federalism was honored by 45, but is imperiled by ~46.
Once again it gets back to common sense.
For example, if the 2020 election really WAS “the most secure in history” common sense says those insisting this, should WELCOME audits, etc. to PROVE their contention, and the only reason to try to block such inquiries, is if they KNOW the election was stolen.
Similarly, there is no LEGITIMATE reason to oppose the appointment of a SM, if the DOJ-NSD and FBI are truly “above reproach”; the ONLY reason to oppose, is if they ARE engaged in questionable behavior.
You really CAN prevail over an opponent that is cheating to gain an unfair advantage, in any contest.
You just have to turn the advantage of cheating, into a DIS advantage.
In the Gen Flynn case, Sidney Powell did this, even with a corrupt judge.
Amen Brother! You make two very accurate points there.
May the Lord continue to protect, and bless, Sidney Powell.
God expects us to fight for what is right and just. He will protect us as we do so.
Thanks again Sundance we are all the wiser for your efforts appreciate you keeping us all up to speed I will admit there are times when I am having a hard time figuring some of this out you allways point me in the right direction for that I am ever grateful
R.D
Discovering “the silos” and that advantage was such Sundance genius. That explained soooo much! Think where we all would be without Sundance!
For a guy who supposedly got his ass handed to him in the 2020 election, they sure are afraid of DJT.
.
They must make sure he is not running for president because they are afraid 81 million votes will not be enough for Bribem to ‘win’ this time . . .
Might be greater than the eligible voters (age wise, not necessarily legal) according to the the last Census.
POTUS Trump is an outlier in the world-wide set of ultra-rich and ultra-powerful personalities. The vast majority seem to be predator types or mentally-weak inherited wealth bullies. In all cases, Trump has dealt with them his whole life and knows them extremely well from business dealings. That he KNOWS their backgrounds, proclivities to evil and most of their fighting techniques makes him feared by them. They know he can and will upset their “gravy-train”. They are simply not prepared to deal with another of great power and wealth that does so with fairness and on behalf of a nation’s citizens. They want Trump to “disappear”!
Pray he is protected and safe from ALL harm!
The political class is especially worried that Trump will not concede the fraudulent election and be a “good sport” about it. I think this stand of Trump’s and his strngth of purpose really can overpower the swamp. Trump does not quit. The DC elites are corrupt and sneaky, but they have never encountered an opponent who will not walk away. They have six ways to Sunday to get you, but…their power is that no one realized what they were doing, Now we see them.
Our republic is used to ex Presidents,Bush (paints) Carter ( builds houses) obummer( consort. with hollywood) but OUR VSGDJT IS HERE to stay. A warrior like none other. He will never give up, will fight to the end. It’s his hobby, dont’ca know…
President Trump knows that the election was not just stolen from him, but it was stolen from us. He is not going to stop fighting for the American citizens who voted him back for a second term.
Why do I get the feeling this process is the equivalent of the Faber Greek Council’s disciplinary hearing regarding Delta House?
Biden = Wormer
On second thought
Obama = Wormer
Biden = Greg Marmalard
Schyler Colfax: By comparison, the Faber College Greek Council proceeding with regard to Delta House was a model of judicial restraint and moral rectitude.
Obama + Holder = Otis Day and the Knights
Biden = Faber College janitor, sitting at Dean Wormer’s desk after hours, pretending to be in charge (never made the final cut in the movie, because the actor playing the janitor turned out to be a child molester).
Merrick Garland Beatnik strumming his guitar – – – – Donald Trump – Bluto
Good take
To Garland: Put Wray on it; he’s a sneaky little shit just like you, right?
I still do not under stand the theory that the Trump v. Clinton lawsuit was used to create a “silo” for documents to be protected according to the attorney client privilege. That is not how the privilege works. The privilege protects communications between attorney and client. That means the fact that a document may have been communicated from client to attorney might be privileged, but it would not make the document itself privileged. If the document is evidence, it cannot be made privileged merely by communicating it to a lawyer.
Also, the bone of contention seems to be the classification status of the documents. Trump says he declassified them, but the DOJ disagrees. We may agree with Trump, but that issue has not been decided. Regardless, the creation of the attorney client privilege is of no help. There is a crime exception to the attorney client privilege. If the communication was in furtherance of a crime, there is no privilege. If, for sake of argument only, Trump shared classified documents (which he did not declassify) with his lawyers (who did not have sufficient clearance to see those documents), then the communication would not be privileged because the communication itself would be a crime.
Now, Trump obviously has an attorney client privilege with his lawyers, but that privilege has been regularly violated — Cohen, Giuliani, Eastman, etc. They all have had their confidential communications seized and examined by the DOJ. So, even if the theory was legitimate, which I don’t think it is, the DOJ would just ignore it and get away with it…
I’m not saying Trump did that. In fact, I think the chances are he declassified everything before he left office. However, I just don’t understand the benefit of this theoretical attorney client silo created by the Trump v. Clinton lawsuit.
“If the document is evidence, it cannot be made privileged merely by communicating it to a lawyer. “
But, were we not informed that the docs were not included as evidence in the lawsuit?
It doesn’t matter. The thing that makes a document subject to attorney-client privilege (which basically means the other side cannot get the document yo review it) is that the document is generated in a communication between attorney and client, and it is the communication itself that is privileged.
For example, John Doe calls his attorney Bill Smith and says, “I think I just hit a kid with my truck.” They talk for 30 minutes about what John should do. Smith then sends Doe a bill for $125.
Later, the kid sues Doe and demands all documents, including the billing records. Smith can black out the content of the communication (if he was stupid enough to put it in the invoice), because that is privileged. The bill itself – and the fact that they talked for 30 minutes on X date – is generally not privileged.
The kid cannot call Smith as a witness in court to testify about his conversation with Doe, because the substance of the conversation is privileged.
Emails and letters between an attorney and a client are privileged if it is just between the two of them.
President Trump’s lawyers know to mark “Attorney Client Privileged” all over any communications.
Correct. Sundance misunderstands attorney client privilege. Giving documents that already exist to an attorney doesn’t make them privileged. The uniparty wants Trump in the news prior to the midterms because it motivates their base to vote and send money. This will turn out like the Russia hoax-entirely frivolous. There won’t be some big exposure of the deep state in these documents. They won’t amount to anything. Raiding people associated with Trump lets them play out the charade in the weeks leading up to the election. If there was anything in the Mar a Lago documents, they wouldn’t be doing these other raids.
I don’t even play a lawyer on TV, but as I understand this, documentation that is considered “communication” might not be considered A-C privileged, but documentation provided to an attorney that is “evidence” in support of a lawsuit would be considered privileged.
An email showing an invitation between Trump and his lawyers to go golfing would not be considered privileged, but an email spelling out a strategy in a lawsuit would be.
A classified FISA warrant provided to his lawyers just for safe-keeping would be a violation, and not privileged, but the same classified FISA warrant provided to his attorneys as supportive of his lawsuit would be privileged, and supported by his letter stating he declassified certain documents prior to leaving office.
Thank you for that explanation. It is essentially what I responded to him yesterday before his thread was deleted.
He also used an example yesterday of the Cigarette industry admitting to their wrongdoing by sharing incriminating documents with their attorneys and then claiming attorney/client privilege with respect to those documents. The courts didn’t let that fly of course. The difference here is that they were trying to circumvent a/c privilege as defendants, whereas in the Trump RICO filing Trump is the plaintiff and those documents were provided to Trump attorneys by Trump (communications) as supportive of his lawsuit.
It doesn’t matter whether you are the defendant or the plaintiff. It doesn’t even require a court case.
Privilege attaches to any communication about a legal matter between a client and an attorney. There are exceptions to the rule (dead man’s statute for will disputes, crime fraud exception), but the point of it is, can you speak freely with your legal counsel without having to worry about anyone else in the world getting to know what you said or wrote to each other?
Same concept as not being able to call someone’s wife or priest to testify to what was said in the marital bed or the confessional.
I do not misunderstand anything. You do.
Start there.
Way to go SD 👍👍
🇺🇸💪😀👍
Nice smack down!
They are still looking for something specific. Seeking, seeking, and never finding.
Cat and mouse.
Now, to mix metaphors, if I knew the rat was on its way to raid my larder, I might well place a poisoned piece of behavior altering cheese right behind a little wall of paper marked “Attorney Client Privilege ” and it would be the only piece of cheese like that ever in the world, so that when the rat couldn’t resist and made off with it, I could both catch the rat out in the open and make the rat go the places I want it to go.
So that when the trap it walks into snaps, it not only catches the rat, it decapitates it. End of rat.
I think you misread what Sundance wrote:
“ Think of it like the people around Trump wanting to show lawyers the evidence in the documents. However, because of the construct of the lawfare being deployed against Trump, any lawyer would need a *reason* to review the evidence. The Trump -v- Clinton et al lawsuit becomes that ‘reason.’
The “documents” (classified or not) are reviewed by lawyers in preparation for the lawsuit. This is their legal justification for reviewing the documents. In essence, the lawsuit is a transfer mechanism permitting the Trump legal team to review the evidence on behalf of their client, former President Donald Trump.
Once the formation of the lawsuit is established, the retainer and acceptance of the lawyers to represent their client cemented, the legal counsel, discussion and information within legal duties/obligations of those who represent the plaintiff (Trump) becomes an information silo. In addition to previous executive privilege established by President Trump himself; outside government there is now another silo to defend against the motives of the Lawfare crew (DOJ), the attorney-client privilege.
The lawsuit itself is the transfer mechanism permitting sharing of the documents and providing legal cover for the reviewers (lawyers). The details within the 108-page filing constitute the claims of the plaintiff in the lawsuit, which were established by the evidentiary documents later seized by the DOJ and FBI raid on Mar-a-Lago.”
Its complicated. And yes, the DOJ-NSD HAS violated A/C priviledge, and the first time, which set the pattern and ‘normalised’ the behavior was with COHEN.
The exception is a lawyer advising their client HOW to violate the law, the “crime exception”. They used 6 process crimes Cohen WAS technically guilty of (read 3 felonies/day) which carried max sentences of 15 years, the threat to charge his wife with one, and the obvious example of how they treated Manafort, to compel Cohen to plead guilty to a “crime” and say he conspired WITH his client (DJT)to commit this ‘crime’ which wasn’t ACTUALLY a crime, it was an administrative law violation of “campaign finance law”.
And THAT, retroactively was their “crime exception” which they used to justify piercing A/C priviledge with Cohen.
If Cohen had not been guilty of these ‘process’ crimes, he could have told them to “pound sand”.
And these process crimes were pure B.S., if you look at them.
Once they got that “onthe record” I GUESS their justification for raiding Giuliani, etc is “PDJT conspired with his lawyers ONCE to commit a crime, (even though they never charged or convicted him of it) so we are justified because he MIGHT do it, again.
As to your broader point, there are a LOT of issues that need to be resolved regarding these documents; ARE they classified or not? WHO has legal rights to possess these documents, etc.
Having a Court ruling, by a Judge, based on the findings/recomendation of a Judge, that they ARE, in fact A/C priviledged docs, and ORDERING the DOJ to return them, effectively, pre-emptively “silos” them.
As I have pointed out in previous comments, even if you stick with the most restrictive interpretation of the SM responsibility of detailing WHAT documents they find are A/C priviledged, they would then logically need to provide a list, using the official designations OF the documents.
i.e. “27 FBI 302 reports of interviews from,..blah blah.
And the Judge would have to include that list, in their order to the DOJ.
Just that list, alone could bring a lot of much needed sunlight, and I find it hard to see how the order could be (with any justification) sealed.
Just a random thought, could Trump have trapped some of the Lawfare peeps, who don’t have adequate clearances but we’re given access to this evidence and shared it. If so, then they violated national security by reviewing the docs, did they not? At least they did, if as they say, the docs are in fact classified.
If they raid and obtain the docs “legitimately” then maybe they can cover how they had access to classified material they illegally obtained.
The cover letter from Trump to Attorney enclosing the 27 FBI 302 reports might be privileged, but the 27 FBI 302 reports would not.
Also, if the 27 FBI 302 reports were classified and for whatever reason not declassified, then the communication of those reports to the Attorney might be a crime and be an exception to the attorney client privilege. Thus, even the cover letter might not be privileged.
The Trump v. Clinton lawsuit might make it moderately more difficult for the DOJ to pierce the privilege, as the communications would on their face appear to be privileged (Trump to Attorney regarding lawsuit). Thus, the Special Master would segregate those communications and the DOJ would have to argue that the exception to the privilege applies (i.e., the communication was a crime, i.e., the documents were classified and not declassified). If the documents were not declassified, a big IF, they could make that showing and get the communications.
So, either with or without the theoretical silo created by the lawsuit, it all comes down to the still undecided issue of whether the documents had been declassified. However, again, this is just as to the communications, not the documents themselves. Nothing will enable the documents themselves to be covered by the privilege.
The documents themselves become part of the communications between Trump and his attorneys if Trump and/or his attorneys have memos detailing how those documents support Trump’s contentions of wrongdoing by DOJ/FBI. The Attorneys aren’t just creating their filing without Trump input. Trump is the one with the chronology, details, and supporting documentation. They all tie together as communications between Trump and his attorneys. The attorneys could not file this case without supporting documentation, whether they decide to disclose it or not.
Documents do not become cloaked with the attorney-client privilege merely because they are passed from client to lawyer. [Fisher v. United States (1976) 425 US 391, 403-404, 96 S.Ct. 1569, 1577-1578] The privilege extends only to communications—not to the facts communicated. “The client cannot be compelled to answer the question, ‘What did you say or write to the attorney?’ but may not refuse to disclose any relevant fact within his knowledge merely because he incorporated a statement of such fact into his communication to his attorney.” [Upjohn Co. v. United States (1981) 449 US 383, 395-396, 101 S.Ct. 677, 685-686]
You must have overlooked this last paragraph in SD’s original article on this yesterday:
“If the documents seized by the FBI were part of the lawsuit established by President Trump and his legal team via Trump -v- Clinton, then the material seized is all attorney client work product. Lawfully obtained, constitutionally declassified and legally protected material.”
Attorney client privilege work product refers to the legal protection of the information gathered by an attorney while preparing for a case.
Work product doctrine protects the confidentiality of a lawyer’s work in preparation for a trial. This includes any tangible or intangible material like:
An attorney’s work product is very similar to attorney-client privilege, but it broadens the scope of what is protected. Facts are not privileged. Work product analyzing the facts may be.
The modern work-product doctrine, which is codified in Federal Rule of Civil Procedure 26(b)(3)protects the attorney’s effective trial preparation by enabling attorneys to prepare their cases without fear that their work product will be used against their clients and traces back to the Supreme Court’s decision in Hickman v. Taylor, 329 U.S. 495 (1947), in which the Court sought to foreclose unwarranted inquiries into attorneys’ files and mental impressions in the guise of liberal discovery. In Hickman, the Court held that an attorney must “work with a certain degree of privacy, free from unnecessary intrusion by opposing parties and their counsel” and be free to “assemble information, sift what he considers to be the relevant from the irrelevant facts, prepare his legal theories and plan his strategy without undue and needless interference.”
The documents that I think we are talking about would be classified FBI reports detailing how the FBI was spying on Trump world. Trump says he declassified these reports and kept a copy. The DOJ argues that they were not declassified and they were justified in seizing the documents back. There is no way on God’s green earth that those documents will qualify as attorney work product UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. If the attorney performed a review of those reports and put 2 and 2 together in a Sundance-like brief opining as to the deeper meaning of those reports, then that brief would be attorney work product, but there is no way, no how, that the declassified FBI report would ever be work product. The FBI created it, not the attorney. It is the evidence, not the attorney’s thoughts or impressions on the evidence.
Once the special master has reviewed the documents and determined that the so-called “classified documents” are really declassified documents as evidenced by the October 2020 and January 2021 declassification by Trump, and once it is shown that the DOJ/FBI knew they were declassified, then we have malfeasance of the part of the DOJ/FBI for raiding Mar-a-Lago under false pretenses, since this was a non criminal case of disagreement between the President and the National Archives. It was not an innocent mistake.
So, you’re right, the FBI report (as well as other declassified documentation) is the evidence in the RICO case brought by Trump. And the RICO lawsuit developed with the attorneys work product is using that evidence to support their case. However, they were under no obligation to disclose any of that documentation in their lawsuit.
But Trump does not have a problem disclosing the docs. He wants the docs disclosed.
This is correct.
Well, some of us are curious today…
Protection and expectation of privacy regarding A/C privilege is not the same as protecting continued access to documents and nobody has specified which documents taken were private communications and which documents Trump and his attorneys have a continued right of access. Nobody is specifically implying that secret A/C privilege was extended to the declassified documents; Only that Trump and his lawyers have a vested legal interest and right to posses them. That Trump has not yet disclosed the contents publicly is assumed to be predicated on the ongoing threat that DoJ will claim the act is Obstruction of Justice.
And this is where the David Kendall precedent comes in. If the attorneys have the appropriate level of clearance, DOJ already took the position that allowing HRC’s attorney continued access to them (allegedly secured in his safe) was just fine under the relevant national security statutes.
The other “services” the DoJ provides DHS and the ODNI is a means to place then entire LEGAL ARM of the Federal Government at their disposal, i.e. the power to arrest, the power to use Grand Juries, the power to represent them in court on attack or defense.
The DoJ is the public face of the 4th Branch of the Government.
The additional “service” the current DHS provides is the ability to use members of Sock Puppet JoeBama’s immediate staff to activate the President’s pen & cell phone to issue Executive Orders.
It’s high time these bureaucrat components were shown their place, which is in the trash can. They ought to be all canned the next time around. One exec order, people escorted out of the building with their boxes, and gone.
Have to contend with SEIU and the NTEU etc.
All those unions should be abolished under the next administration. The unions enable the employees of the government to know that they don’t even have to work to keep their job. Just collect a paycheck by showing up sometimes. Be as corrupt as you wanna be and can’t get fired. Just get a little slap on the wrist and keep getting a bigger and bigger paycheck.
PDJT has already addressed this issue and established precedent.
Remember what he did with VA employees? If they are derelict, insubbordinate, commiting crimes, or job is no longer necesary (I forget exact wording) they can be FIRED.
PDJT has already said, in next term he will make it apply to all civil service employees. As for SES, or whatever that Obama used to “embed” political operatives in Depts as civil service, he can undo that with an executive order “pen stroke”.
He has talked about this,..
Thanks
Roger
As Sundance said in a prior post, “We must stop pretending.”
The deep state is aligned against VSGJT. All of the deep state: Military, Industrial, Intelligence-Security, Globalists, and Legal, all messaging packaged and coordinated by complicit state-aligned Media.
What does one call this alignment, in addition to “Deep State”?
It took me a long time to appreciate the accuracy of Instapundit Glenn Reynolds’ repeated warning that “You may not be interested in the Gleichschaltung, but it is interested in you.”
Gleichschaltung is the Nazi term for complete coordination of state, economy, and social structures. Literally it means synchronization-circuit.
We see increasingly how fully the Deep State’s new Gleichschaltung, especially via its media monopolies, is enveloping us in its web, financial and social. Mass Formation Psychosis is now not a possibility but quotidian reality.
God bless President Trump for his courage and hard work.
Not only is government completely coordinated, but the government is also synchronizing (forcing) with many others, and leftist minions everywhere are helping.
Health care and the clotshot mandates are one. ESG forcing corporations to do leftist bidding are another. VISA caving to leftist ESG policies to code specific gun/ammo purchases are an example.
I doubt they “caved.” They are all in, like all multinationals. There’s the real problem and everything revolves around it.
Good point.
Until proven otherwise by the DoJ, the other fact that seems to be apparent by the DoJ’s legal machinations is that President Trump and his team did in fact properly follow ALL the processes for declassification, including; the proper documenting required by the Federal Codes necessary to link his declassification orders to materials declassified as well as proper handling of materials.
One of the roles of the special master is to verify the actual level of classification of materials seized by the FBI. This role is the crux of insulting claims by the DoJ and FBI questioning the ability of anybody but them to assess “what is classified or not”.
If it was provable otherwise, President Trump’s lawyers would have already been representing him in front of a Grand Jury or worse….and the request for a Special Master would have gladly been embraced because the documentation (document logs, reports, security facility records, classification guides, cover sheets, orders, material marking, et al) would have proven their claims no matter who was appointed as the master. The special master will be required to look at more than just the materials seized, to include also examining and giving opinions on supporting documentation that actually establishes classification levels of materials seized.
The DoJ actually made a serious mistake with the Masters they proposed, as the two they proposed have zero experience in assessing classified materials. Whereas, President Trump actually proposed two lawyers with actual hands on experience.
President Trump’s lawyers would not have followed through with the court case if it were otherwise which means this tactical loss in court further complicates the battle for the DoJ and any Federal Judges they may selectively try to engage.
Great post, except you can’t bring your lawyer into the Grand Jury to “represent you in front of a Grand Jury”.
You can consult beforehand, but thats about it.
A grand jury witness must also be afforded reasonable opportunity to consult with counsel during his questioning in the proceeding, but outside the jury room, where counsel’s presence is prohibited.
Lawfare got out lawyered.
“Bureaucratic components” 😂
How many properties in the US does President Trump own or manage??
It would be the ultimate troll for him, his friends and his lawyers to visit them ALL, with shipping boxes going in and out of the properties in plain sight.
Shell game-style.
Like in the Thomas Crown Affair scene, with all the men in bowler hats….
If the Cabal could concoct an elixir that makes the existence of Trump be forgotten, and make everyone drink it, they would. I picture them all held up in their closets at night, rotating their hands over their eyes and ears, rocking back and forth feverishly, “Just make it go away, just make it go away.”
May God bless President Trump and his legal team.
Our government is out of control and needs a royal smackdown that actually sticks.
May the Lord confuse and scatter the Lawfare people, and all their enablers.
May God bless, and protect, America’s people.
Amen
Pray the DOJ gets bad advice, like in the Old Testament battles.
Paraphrasing Lincoln, “We cannot spare this man — he FIGHTS.”
LG Grant.
Great post, Sundance! Always my first stop of the day… 😁🤠🇺🇸
Thank you, Sundance, for all you do. This patriot sincerely appreciates your efforts.
The government’s position on this matter is insane and blatant abuse of its power. It saddens me ne sickens me that the country I fought and bled for has sunk so low, but it has. Our Republic is imperiled and will be lost if action does not correct the multitude of wrongs committed by the Biden/Obama administration. Keep up the good work, Sundance. I pray we don’t soon read a headline here about Sundance being raided by the FBI and arrested for the crime of loving his Republic.
The country has not sunk so low, our government has. The government (and I will also throw in the political parties) is NOT the country.
Sundance, maybe this is putting the cart before the horse, but, perhaps at some point when you can catch up, it might be helpful to have an explanation of what a Special Master’s duties are, and how both parties might react depending on how the Special Master decides.
If a Special Master decides against either party, what can be done about that decision?
Can either party argue and provide evidence for their position before the Special Master?
Will a Special Master just look at documents in front of them and decide for either party with no recourse?
If the parties can argue for their position, and provide evidence to support their position, I still think it would be great to see video surveillance of the storage room provided showing President Trumps attorneys accessing the room, along with calendars of meetings to discuss the lawsuit, etc.
In my opinion based on observation, all of that evidence would support his attorney-client privilege claims for every item seized from MAL.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_53
RULE 53
MASTERS
Thanks for the link. It is surprisingly easy to comprehend.
The following excerpts are interesting:
(C) if conducting an evidentiary hearing, exercise the appointing court’s power to compel, take, and record evidence.
(2) Sanctions. The master may by order impose on a party any noncontempt sanction provided by Rule 37 or 45 , and may recommend a contempt sanction against a party and sanctions against a nonparty.
Everything under:
(f) Action on the Master’s Order, Report, or Recommendations.
I’ll take a swing at it, although you didn’t ask me.
Technically, the SM is to review the documents to detirmine what, if any are protected by A/C priviledge, and therefore documents the DOJ should not be allowed to see.
I THINK if the DOJ had not interposed themselves as a Defendant in the Hillary RICO case, this wouldn’t be an issue, but since they did, it is.
The SM than shares their opinion with the Judge, who would be expected to defer to the SM.
If the SM says none of the documents are A/C priviledge, then the Judge lifts the stay on the DOJ.
IF the SM provides a list of docs it detirmined ARE A/C, then presumably the judge would sign an order, ordering the DOJ to return the documents.
Whether the SM will get into the issue of “classified or Declassified” or not, I frankly am not sure, ….
while it SEEMS like they would HAVE to (cause how can the Judge order the Govt to return classified documents to a private citisen?) my understanding is NORMALLY the SM has a narrow, tailored responsibility.
Thanks Dutchman.
I saw comment yesterday about the DOJust’Us inserting themselves into the RICO suit, but never saw why they would do that.
I can assume they did so to muscle in and act as they did (raid) to protect themselves from incrimination.
Major backfire, to my mind.
IF they weren’t a party to the suit, the conflict of seeing A/C material would be lessened considerably.
Mind you they SAY they are “conducting a criminal investigation of PDJT”, so there is still a conflict, but its transparently obvious with the timeline;
PDJT files RICO suit against Hillary et al.
DOJ intervenes, seeking to be named as Defendant.
DOJ raids plaintiff PDJT’s home, with open ended warrant and siezes ,…everything.
Just the APPEARANCE alone, is of a major impropriety.
How can DOJ get a grand jury to indict Trump for actions dealing with classified documents if they don’t present the docs to the grand jury?
Ham sandwich indictment theory
They’ll lie…
The DOJ is a god to a DC grand Jury, and would believe what ever they are presented with, no questions asked!
How some of these ‘lawfare’ skells exist in public is beyond me.
It should be a very unpleasant experience for them to do things in public where we can all see them, and talk to them.
“These are the two main pillars of the corrupt national surveillance state”
And the People can engage these pillars using nonviolent action.
Remember, true strength only exists in others providing the necessary connection for orders to become enforced.
The bonds in the chain of command are what power is
A wheel rolls when all the parts are there and working
Your articles are great in uncovering, but without plans to confront this is merely an empty exercise
https://centerforsecuritypolicy.org/why-no-accountability-for-real-national-security-damage/
Calling the Democratic Party aligned corrupt FBI/DOJ ” bureaucratic components” should have been prefaced by “subordinate to the President bureaucratic components”. Plus, the FBI did not itemize the contents of the records boxes with Trump’s attorneys, merely referring to them as box 1, box 2, etc. Is that not a chain of custody issue? How do we know the FBI did not supplement the boxes with planted documents. They are asking everyone to trust them that that didn’t happen. And finally, the government does not have “rights”, only people have rights.
I do not understand why a PDJT attorney would say “Trump had told her that the case would ultimately not be a winner and she should just drop it…”
Why isn’t this malpractice, violation of client confidentiality? (unless PDJT authorized it somehow, for some reason beyond my poor ability to understand why this would be from a PDJT attorney)
An attorney can’t even aknowledge whether someone is or isn’t their client, without the clients permission.
And PDJT is acting as Chief strategist and tactician in this Campaign; he is the football Coach, the lawyers are the team.
This may be disinfo to the other side, to make them think he isn’t committed to the RICO case, when he is.
LOTS of manuevering going on, as they fight in Criminal, Civil, Administrative law Courts, as well as “In the Court of Public Opinion”.
If that lawyer was speaking out of turn, they would be in for an *ss chewing, firing or even disbarrment.
So yeah, they were not speaking out of turn.
Looking into my crystal ball I see a mysterious fire at the fbi, it will be reported that fortunately no one was injured and the fire was contained to just one store room. /s
OK they’re not that desperate yet but they should be getting that way.
I still don’t get it, isn’t a President able to declassify anything during his term by simply saying it’s declassified?
Would not The Don have done that as a matter of course?
You and I have listened to credentialed legal “experts” opining that this is “established law”; there ARE other credentialled legal “experts” argueing otherwise, or exceptions.
ONLY when this issue is resolved, conclusively in COURT, regarding this SPECIFIC issue, will the question be OFFICIALLY resolved.
One of several questions that MUST be resolved, prior to these documents seeing the sunlight.
And questions which hope hopefully these court cases WILL resolve, and to PDJT’s benefit.
.
I think so.
I do not know of any court case that basically said this, but how could it be otherwise?
The Constitution provides that the President -IS- the executive branch of the government. Unlike Congress or the Supreme Court, it’s not a rule-by-committee sort of thing. The President therefore canNOT be rendered subject to rules and decisions made by underlings, subordinates, lackeys, employees in one of the executive branch agencies. The notion is ridiculous.
.
Given your screen name, I suspect you well know its not whats TRUE, its what can be PROVED, in a Court of Law, with Admissable Evidence that matters.
Lawyers have even succeeded in proving an untruth in Court, on occasion.
Similar principle; The precise details of this case, or series of cases, has NEVER been adjudicated before.
A former POTUS having what were “Classified “Govt documents which detail an unsuccessful attempt to drive him from office, etc.
And all of the ancillary issues. Eventually, the Courts WILL resolve these various legal questions, hopefully in PDJT’s favor, and hopefully before 2024.
That is exactly what I thought ALSO.
Could we both be wrong?
Crazy… https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/09/texas-woman-charged-threatening-kill-judge-allowed-special-master-trump-raid-case/
Dang those deplorables.
A Texas woman was arrested and charged with threatening to kill the federal judge presiding over Trump’s special master case. This is one of the reasons media corporations/reporters have to be prosecuted for their part in fake news ever generated
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/12/trump-mar-a-lago-special-master-woman-charged-with-threatening-judge.html
Here is what they claim about that woman.
“A federal magistrate judge in Houston said Gish “appears to suffer from severe mental impairments with symptoms including paranoia and delusions.”
Isn’t that the same problem that all the democrats, and our government officials have?
Me Likum.
What if the fibs refuse to turn the documents over to the special master? Would they dare to arrest the judge and put him in with the J6 political prisoners?
The fibs arresting and jailing the Special Master, presiding over a case of extraordinary consequence to the Nation, in which they themselves have been held in contempt.
🤔
Wouldn’t put it past them.
Hysterical postulations without merit of logic.
The DOJ is attempting to set a precedent. There are multiple people who can be trusted to determine if the documents are still classified or if the government is making all of this up. I lean toward making it up. The government must prove any of their action is necessary, so far the leak of the documents meant to be evidence is already an issue and potentially could lead to being inadmissible as evidence, but I am no lawyer. The other issue I see is the judge used to sign the warrant, not exactly an unbiased entity in the justice system.
Oh my God! We have got to GET THESE MO-FOs OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT!
To Sundance:
I came across a reference to the RICO case that you might not have seen because it’s at Gateway Pundit (I know) – but your coverage of this case has been fascinating so I thought the reference might interest you:
“[Peter] Ticktin more recently is back in President Trump’s life helping with some court cases. He’s the local counsel in the case against Hillary Clinton…In regards to the RICO case against Hillary, Comey, McCabe, and others, Ticktin believes the case which was dismissed by a Clinton judge on Friday will get reversed in the Court of Appeals.”
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2022/09/watch-tide-will-overpower-deep-state-sandcastles-president-trumps-friend-attorney-peter-ticktin/
Greedy self serving career politicians have destroyed the founders intentions. Congress has in many ways relinquished their oversight, law writing and funding responsibilities to the point where they are almost irrelevant.
SD nailed it!!
That response to his attorney!!!
What’s interesting in reading this article is the point that although the DOJ, Warner and Bill Barr now sound like hysterical school girls over possible classified information at MAL, why were they not hysterical during the 6 months Trump was negotiating with NARA?
Also, I am sensing the DOJ appears not to dispute that Trump has the ability to review classified material, but that others at MAL may have been exposed to it. Who would those “others” be other than his lawyers in preparation for the RICO suit?
Everything triggering the Deep State seems to have stemmed from that RICO suit.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/09/12/bidens-doj-doesnt-want-to-disclose-classified-mar-a-lago-documents-except-through-selective-leaks-to-leftist-media/
Sounds like Trump and his legal team are using the “silo” approach against the DS. Talk about poetic Justice.
The FBI needs to be investigated, especially as to all the whistleblower evidence that goes there to die. Kick the agents out and send in a special forensic team to find out what they are doing. No lawyers allowed and a nice general warrant.
https://www.frontpagemag.com/federal-bureau-investigated/
Bad cops … the whole lot of the Deep State lawbreakers …
HE got a new one who was the former Solicitor General in FL..
His name is Christopher Kise he was hired to help on the MAL case.
Just looked him up and he is young guy…
The ultra corrupt doj-nsd, is so blinded by its decayed state, that it truly believes no one can see through their BS.
Sundance, you can see the seams on a fast ball. Shout out to Rush.
The jump to a Special Master had me concerned we had jumped the phase of justifying the raid.
If there was ongoing communication and the docs were secure (don’t forget Secret Service is there), seems outlandish to raid with 30 armed FBI Agents all day for docs where they knew were located.
Lots of time for these parties to unwind the classification nonsense.
Meanwhile, Barack has millions of docs, some were requested during Trump Presidency and Obama refused.
So, there’s that precedent as well.
Seems DOJ/FBI aren’t concerned at all about the harm they caused Trump/country regarding Russia for 5 yrs……….or that they have the appearance of targeting a POTUS and top prospect for next POTUS election.
SSCI created a fourth branch
The keystone of our Republic is checks and balance. For DOJ & NSD to claim there is no checks or balance for their organizations violates the premise of our Constitution.
Sundance got a ‘shoutout’ yesterday on the X22 Report re:
‘A Different Take on the Dismissal of the Trump v Clinton Lawsuit’ – Sept 11, 2022
During this episode: https://x22report.com/we-will-never-forget-or-forgive-moves-countermoves-we-are-operational-ep-2871/
Nice to hear Dave’s been reading your work.
I want to believe that civil war is not inevitable but it is.
Millions will die and China and Russia and Europe will pick up the pieces.
For weeks and weeks the DOJ and the Media has ignored the two executive orders, one from Bush and one from Obama both of which recognize the Presidents power to declassify without complying with the bureaucrat requirements. EVEN our media can’t buy into this fact. Just read the two executive orders.
To me, it seems that Trump has maneuvered the DOJ into a corner that only a crooked judge can get them out of.
The FBI raids Mar-a-lago and confiscates anything that looks remotely governmental and some personal items for good measure. The FBI finds nothing of any real value, certainly nothing they hoped to find, maybe planting a few documents along the way. They have nothing an know that they have nothing, but claim all the documents are classified anyway.
Why? To cover their arrogant stupidity by continuing to claim that Trump retained classified information and force him into an arrestable situation. At the same time, FBI/DOJ can’t admit to their stupidity and that they were taken in. They have to stay their course and attempt to bully their way through.
I would venture to say that the only classified document the FBI found was Mrs Trump’s chocolate chip cookie recipe.
Maybe this is when the FBI perp walked the dirty agent out in public quickly after they were discovered conducting the 9 hour siege at MAL.