I respect Dinesh D’Souza. However, on this issue I also disagree intensely.
The foundation of D’Souza’s reason for why he does not support a new political party, a MAGA or Patriot or (__fill in blank__) party, appears flawed. By saying a new party would only split the GOP, D’Souza is actually making the argument that creates Battered Conservative Syndrome; the DeceptiCon argument that protects the GOP wing. WATCH:
When the Tea Party rose to power and primaried a host of GOP politicians, it was the Republican party that attacked the conservative base and attempted to destroy the rebellion. McCain called us “hobbits” and McConnell called us “jihadists.” The threat from the Tea Party was felt amid the GOP. The GOP was *not* going to adjust.
Meanwhile Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama destroyed the center of their political party called the Blue Dog coalition, represented by Bart Stupak. The Blue Dogs were wiped out in 2010 because Democrats forced them into radical left-wing agenda items.
A new party, ie. ‘THE’ new party, would not be a carve out within the Republican club. A new party would be a coalition party of Democrats, Republicans and Independents. Need proof of the scale, look at the 2020 election for Trump. That’s the (fill__blank) party.
A new party would be a SECOND party to the UniParty occupants currently pushing more big government in Washington DC. The fact that we have decades worth of evidence (Patriot Act, Wall Street Lobbyists, K-St. etc.), and specifically the past ten years (omnibus spending bills, limitless debt ceiling, massive wasted stimulus, political bailouts, QE1/QE2, Obamacare, college tuition takeover etc.) shows that both Democrats and Republicans are two wings of the same big government bird.
The fear of “splitting the GOP” is the weaponized talking point of the GOP leadership who use that fear as a weapon to remain in power. Those who listen to that threat are suffering from battered conservative syndrome.
There is nothing conservative about expanding government, spending into oblivion, allowing open borders and simultaneously removing liberty and freedom. What exactly is being “conserved”? CTH has been making this argument for years.
This example from 2015 rings just as true today:
2015 – A few days ago I took the time to read Jonah Goldberg’s expressed concerns about the support for Donald Trump and the state of current conservative opinion.
Toward that end I have also noted additional GOP media present a similar argument, and I took the time to consider.
While we are of far lesser significance and influence, I hope you will consider this retort with the same level of consideration afforded toward your position.
The challenging aspect to your expressed opinion, and perhaps why there is a chasm between us, is you appear to stand in defense of a Washington DC conservatism that no longer exists.
I hope you will indulge these considerations and correct me where I’m wrong.
On December 23rd 2009 Harry Reid passed a version of Obamacare through forced vote at 1:30am. The Senators could not leave, and for the two weeks previous were kept in a prolonged legislative session barred returning to their home-state constituencies. It was, by all measures and reality, a vicious display of forced ideological manipulation of the upper chamber. I share this reminder only to set the stage for what was to follow.
Riddled with anxiety we watched the Machiavellian manipulations unfold, seemingly unable to stop the visible usurpation. Desperate for a tool to stop the construct we found Scott Brown and rallied to deliver $7 million in funding, and a “Kennedy Seat” victory on January 19th 2010.
Unfortunately, the trickery of Majority Leader Harry Reid would not be deterred. Upon legislative return he stripped a House Budgetary bill, and replaced it with the Democrat Senate version of Obamacare through a process of “reconciliation”. Thereby avoiding the 3/5ths vote rule (60) and instead using only a simple majority, 51 votes.
Angered, we rallied to the next election (November 2010) and handed the usurping Democrats the single largest electoral defeat in the prior 100 years. The House returned to Republican control, and one-half of the needed Senate seats reversed. Within the next two election cycles (’12 and ’14) we again removed the Democrats from control of the Senate.
Within each of those three elections we were told Repealing Obamacare would be job #1. It was not an optional part of our representative agreement to do otherwise.
From your own writing:
[…] If you want a really good sense of the damage Donald Trump is doing to conservatism, consider the fact that for the last five years no issue has united the Right more than opposition to Obamacare. Opposition to socialized medicine in general has been a core tenet of American conservatism from Day One. Yet, when Republicans were told that Donald Trump favors single-payer health care, support for single-payer health care jumped from 16 percent to 44 percent. (link)
With control of the House and Senate did Majority Leader Mitch McConnell or House Speaker John Boehner use the same level of severity expressed by Harry Reid to put a repeal bill on the desk of Obama for veto? Simply, NO.
Why not? According to you it’s the “core tenet of American conservatism”.
If for nothing but to accept and follow the will of the people. Despite the probability of an Obama veto, this was not a matter of option. While the method might have been “symbolic”, due to the almost guaranteed veto, it would have stood as a promise fulfilled.
Yet you speak of “core tenets” and question our “trust” of Donald Trump?
We are not blind to the maneuverings of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and President Tom Donohue. We are fully aware the repeal vote did not take place because the U.S. CoC demanded the retention of Obamacare.
Leader McConnell followed the legislative priority of Tom Donohue as opposed to the will of the people. This was again exemplified with the passage of TPPA, another Republican construct which insured the Trans-Pacific Trade Deal could pass the Senate with 51 votes instead of 3/5ths.
We are not blind to the reality that when McConnell chooses to change the required voting threshold he is apt to do so. Not coincidentally, the TPP trade deal is another legislative priority of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
Yet you question the “trustworthiness” of Donald Trump’s conservatism?
Another bill, the Iran “agreement”, reportedly and conveniently not considered a “treaty”, again we are not blind. Nor are we blind to Republican Bob Corker’s amendment (Corker/Cardin Amendment) changing ratification to a 67-vote-threshold for denial, as opposed to a customary 67 vote threshold for passage. A profound difference.
Yet you question the “ideological conservative principle” of Donald Trump?
Perhaps your emphasis is on the wrong syllable. Perhaps you should be questioning the “ideological conservative principle” of Mitch McConnell, or Bob Corker; both of whom apparently working to deny the will of the electorate within the party they are supposed to represent. Of course, this would force you to face some uncomfortable realities. I digress.
Another example – How “conservative” is Lisa Murkowski?
A senator who can lose her Republican primary bid, yet run as a write-in candidate, and return to the Senate with full seniority and committee responsibilities?
Did Reince Preibus (then RNC Chair), or a republican member of leadership meet the returning Murkowski and demand a Pledge of Allegiance to the principles within the Republican party?
Yet you question the “allegiances” of Donald Trump?
Perhaps within your purity testing you need to forget minority leader Mitch McConnell working to re-elect Senator Thad Cochran, fundraising on his behalf in the spring/summer of 2014, even after Cochran lost the first Mississippi primary?
Perhaps you forget the NRSC spending money on racist attack ads? Perhaps you forget the GOP paying Democrats to vote in the second primary to defeat Republican Chris McDaniel. The “R” in NRSC is “Republican”.
Perhaps you forget. We do not.
Yet you question the “principle” of those who have had enough, and are willing to support candidate Donald Trump.
You describe yourself as filled with anxiety because such supporters do not pass some qualified “principle” test? Tell that to the majority of Republicans who supported Chris McDaniel and found their own party actively working against them.
Principle? You claim “character matters” as part of this consideration. Where is the “character” in the fact-based exhibitions outlined above?
Remember Virginia 2012, 2013? When the conservative principle-driven electorate changed the method of candidate selection to a convention and removed the party stranglehold on their “chosen candidates”. Remember that? We do.
What did McConnell, the RNC and the GOP do in response with Ken Cuccinelli, they actively spited him and removed funding from his campaign. To teach us a lesson? Well it worked, we learned that lesson.
Representative David Brat was part of that lesson learned and answer delivered. Donald Trump is part of that lesson learned and answer forthcoming – yet you speak of “character”.
You speak of being concerned about Donald Trump’s hinted tax proposals. Well, who cut the tax rates on lower margins by 50% thereby removing any tax liability from the bottom 20% wage earners? While simultaneously expanding the role of government dependency programs?
That would be the GOP (“Bush Tax Cuts”)
What? How dare you argue against tax cuts, you say. The “Bush Tax Cuts” removed tax liability from the bottom 20 to 40% of income earners completely. Leaving the entirety of tax burden on the upper 60% wage earners. Currently, thanks to those cuts, 49% of tax filers pay ZERO federal income tax.
But long term it’s much worse. The “Bush Tax Cuts” were, in essence, created to stop the post 9/11/01 recession – and they contained a “sunset provision” which ended ten years later specifically because the tax cuts were unsustainable.
The expiration of the lower margin tax cuts then became an argument in the election cycle of 2012. And as usual, the GOP, McConnell and Boehner were insufferably inept during this process.
The GOP (2002) removed tax liability from the lower income levels, and President Obama then (2009) lowered the income threshold for economic subsidy (welfare, food stamps, ebt, medicaid, etc) this was brutally predictable.
This lower revenue higher spending approach means – lower tax revenues and increased pressure on the top tax rates (wage earners) with the increased demand for tax spending created within the welfare programs. Republicans focus on the “spending” without ever admitting they, not the Democrats, lowered rates and set themselves up to be played with the increased need for social program spending, simultaneously.
Is this reality/outcome not ultimately a “tax the rich” program?
As a consequence what’s the difference between the Republicans and Democrats on taxes?
All of a sudden Republicans are arguing to “broaden the tax base”. Meaning, reverse the tax cuts they created on the lower income filers? This is a conservative position now? A need to “tax the poor”? Nice of the Republicans to insure the Democrats have an atomic sledgehammer to use against them.
This is a winning strategy? This is the “conservatism” you are defending because you are worried about Donald Trump’s principles, character or trustworthiness.
Here’s a list of those modern conservative “small(er) government” principles:
• Did the GOP secure the border with control of the White House and Congress? NO.
• Did the GOP balance the budget with control of the White House and Congress? NO.
• Who gave us the TSA? The GOP
• Who gave us the Patriot Act? The GOP
• Who expanded Medicare to include prescription drug coverage? The GOP
• Who created the precursor of “Common Core” in “Race To the Top”? The GOP
• Who played the race card in Mississippi to re-elect Thad Cochran? The GOP
• Who paid Democrats to vote in the Mississippi primary? The GOP
• Who refused to support Ken Cuccinnelli in Virginia? The GOP
• Who supported Charlie Crist? The GOP
• Who supported Arlen Spector? The GOP
• Who supported Bob Bennett? The GOP
• Who worked against Marco Rubio? The GOP
• Who worked against Rand Paul? The GOP
• Who worked against Ted Cruz? The GOP
• Who worked against Mike Lee? The GOP
• Who worked against Jim DeMint? The GOP
• Who worked against Ronald Reagan? The GOP
• Who said “I think we are going to crush [the Tea Party] everywhere.”? The GOP (McConnell)
• Who worked against Donald Trump? The GOP
And, you wonder why we’re frustrated, desperate for a person who can actually articulate some kind of push-back? Mitch McConnell and John Boehner are what the GOP give us?
SERIOUSLY?
Which leads to the next of your GOP talking points. Where you opine on Fox:
“Politics is a game where you don’t get everything you want”
Fair enough. But considering we of questionable judgment have simply been demanding common sense, ie. fiscal discipline, a BUDGET would be nice.
The last federal budget was passed in September of 2007, and EVERY FLIPPING INSUFFERABLE YEAR we have to go through the predictable fiasco of a Government Shutdown Standoff and/or a Debt Ceiling increase specifically because there is NO BUDGET!
That’s a strategy?
That’s the GOP strategy? Essentially: Lets plan for an annual battle against articulate Democrats and Presidential charm, using a creepy guy who cries and another old mumbling fool who dodders, knowing full well the MSM is on the side of the other guy to begin with?
THAT’S YOUR GOP STRATEGY? Don’t tell me it’s not, because if it wasn’t there’d be something else being done – there isn’t.
And don’t think we don’t know the 2009 “stimulus” became embedded in the baseline of the federal spending, and absent of an actual budget it just gets spent and added to the deficit each year, every year. Yet this is somehow smaller fiscal government?
….And you’re worried about what Donald Trump might do?
Seriously?
Most third party candidates do not draw a crowd of 50,000. Give that a thought Mitch. Keep that picture in your mind as your coffers dwindle and Your party disappears into the new TRUMP party. (I think Donald may want to name it himself if he starts it.)
Actually this is a very important point.
What IS a “Political party”?
Is it the BASE, ..WITH a “Leadership” and party structure, starting with precinct captains, district leaders, county and State Chairs, and a National leadership that REPRESENTS the base, SHARES the Bases views on policy issues, and works to forward those shared policy prescriptions?
Well, then there hasn’t been a FUNCTIONAL Republican party, in a very long time.
Add to Sundances list, that the GOP actively colluded with Dems, MSM, and the I/C, to torpedo Barry Goldwaters campaign, fought him for the nomination, and then used a false narrative to deny him the Presidency, in 1964!
THAT gives you some idea of how long this has been going on!
It is WAY PAST TIME for the base to formalise the divorce from the corrupt, Global Conmunists who have control over the GOP.
The GOP treats us, like an abused spouse, with utter contempt because “Ha! WHERE are you going to go?”
Whatever else happens, we MUST leave the Republicon party.
The real strength OF the Uniparty, is with the right wing. The left wing, by itself, or with a true conservative opposition party, could NEVER have taken our traditionally center right country so far left as to have dragqueen story hour for 5y.o.’s in our Public libraries, or to the point where post birth abortions are a given, and the only debate is “How LONG after its born, can the mother and doctor decide to kill it?”
A bird can’t fly with ONE wing. If WE abandon the Republican party, en mass not only does it collapse, without a base, but a one winged bird, can NOT fly.
*******Its TIME!******
Gonna say this again..
With 212Million registered voters and 66.2% voting,140.344 M voted. Now if Trump got 74 M, that leaves only 66.344 M for Biden.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/elections/voter-turnout/
Except President Trump got 80 million to the Chinese Poodle’s 60.
I sincerely DOUBT Biden got ANYWHERE NEAR 40,000 legal votes, let alone 60.
Patriot Party has a nice ring to it.
I like “America First” party, as it inculcates the whole party platform, in two words.
To expand; in ALL public policy questions, we support policy prescriptions that are best for America, and therefore ALL Americans.
And, its not theoretical, as we have the first 3 years of PDJT’S first term, as a demonstration of how its applied.
And, it cuts through the Uniparty crap “wedge” issues, which both faces of the two-faced Uniparty created and exploited specifically to divide us.
This….America First Party. A nationalist populist party that already has majority support of the American electorate. Stand true to this and this party will rule for decades.
I totally agree that 3rd party candidates draw lousy crowds.
But as the Turtle’s coffers dwindle and his party disappears, you can bet that he will still be around for more than several election cycles… and that could be fatal..
Unfortunately, in a split nation… Mitch will easily be pulling enough votes to keep a MAGA party from the top – especially in the beginning.
And right now, job #1 is…. to keep a radicalized Democrat party out of power – so they will not be able to initiate enough changes… to rule in perpetuity… and destroy our nation.
Agreed. As attractive as the idea of an ascendent “new” conservative party that will displace the Republican Party reminds me of my time in libertarian politics. We used to have these “organizing” meetings where we’d happily discuss doctrine and dream of “the day” in the future when enough people would see our truth and create a politically influential libertarian party. That was about 1979 or so. Despite all this (former in my case) fervor and dedication, and time, llibertarianism remains the ideological backwater it was way back then. Third parties simply don’t work in the American body politic. Period.
In 2019 I too got involved with the Libertarian party here in NY. The only reason I did so was because I wanted to run for a local office and neither the Dems nor the Reps would support me. It was very easy to get a line on the ballot but that was all I got.
The Libertarians turned out to be a huge disappointment in every respect. They had no real patriotism or love of liberty. They were disorganized and their leadership was non-existent. They had no agenda and many of them it turned out were Never Trumpers.
That being said, the Libertarians are still an actual political party who went through all the hoops to be able to get candidates on the ballots. Like others are saying, it is not an easy process. It is expensive, labor intensive and you are dealing with some of the most corrupt scumbags in the USA.
Working with the Libertarians (and with the local GOP for many years) has given me a good idea of what it’s like to start a third party and I do not recommend it at all in our current situation.
For all intents and purposes, our President Trump is the leader of the current GOP and he has 100 million voters behind him. WE already control the GOP- WHY THE HELL SHOULD WE GIVE IT UP??
Sometimes you just need something new like when you can’t get the smell of Turtle shit out of the old.
A political realignment is happening. The only question is how it plays out. I think a 3rd party is the only thing that will work. It is the only way to have a party that doesn’t have incumbent pretenders.
The America First message is what needs to be front and center. There is a lot of tolerance for a policy position that doesn’t help you directly but that you believe is sincerely intended to be the best for America. It will draw from both parties, but as PDJT has shown, it will draw those that are currently disengaged. The GOP would collapse, and the RINOs would join the elitist party.
The challenge, which is what the Tea Party faced, is finding plausible candidates up and down ballot. You have to win elections, and it’s really hard to do that without the pre-existing underlying party structure to support it.
A party organisation starts at the grass roots level. We already HAVE that; watch the video of the million person d.c. rally, and the later Jericho rally.
LISTEN to the Speakers resumes, and then to their words.
Hipanics for Trump, Blacks for Trump, Indians for Trump.
Heck, by now there is probably a “One eyed, One legged Ornithologists for Trump” organisation.
Look at the ORGANIC car and boat rallys, organised with NO input from “the party” OR “the Campaign”;
THIS is the foundation for your “party organisation”. You don’t start at the Top, you build from the bottom, up. Just like a building.
Get the foundation right, THEN the walls, finally the roof.
We CAN do this.
Dutch:
And you need a motivating issue to get people to work hard for your Party, for free. The nascent Republicans had slavery. Northern Christians were sincerely motivated to fight that. The Whigs were like contemporary Republicans – compromise for the sake of compromise.
Election fraud could very well be the issue to get the ball rolling. Civil service reform was the unlikely burning issue of the late 19th century. Where would the Democrats find the countering energy? But, maddeningly, the Republicans would opportunistically seize the issue, as well, and then do nothing.
Since free speech is most decidedly out of favor, the new party could and should demand adherence to strict speech codes. No room for a free-range Romney type. In Canada or Britain, if you feel compelled to criticize the Party leader (Prime Minister) you can; then you go sit in the back-benches of Parliament as an independent. Trudeau in Canada simply does not tolerate dissent with his positions. The new MAGA (?) Party will need that, or it will go off the rails, and fast.
Can any of you who are advocating for a third party please explain to us just how you intend to go about it?
What exactly are you going to do to get this party registered in every state? Where is the infrastructure? Who will finance this effort? Have any of you ever run for office in any elections? Do you know about the petition process?
With all due respect, I don’t think many of you have any idea what you’re talking about.
Seneca, you’re 100% correct!
I did all the dirty work back in 2000 to get the Buchanan led Reform Party on the ballot here in PA. Paid to get all the signatures I collected noterized, bought the wood stakes to put yard signs all over the area and flew myself out to the convention on my own dime (made a mini vacation out of it in Long Beach, CA, so it wasn’t to bad, lol!) and worked the polls on election day. Great experience, but in the end it was all for naught.
I doubt that many here wanting a new party will do any of those things to make it happen.
I also remember what the Republican Party did to Allen West. Gerrymandered him out of his congressional seat. It was a low life thing to do! I’m so ready for a change. Haven’t registered as a Republican in a long time and never will again!
Precisely!
It’s not possible to disagree more strongly with Dinesh.
He doesn’t understand the real world. A Republican Party take over will fare no better than the Tea Party attempted take over.
It will be subverted.All the Republican grandees remain, the fossilised Republican good losers club with idiots like George Will remain, the low rent State Republican legislature members remain, it’s still the Bush’s party. A clean out back to bare earth is simply not possible
The K Street lobbyists control the money….it goes to compliant Republicans not MAGA men.They eventually own the R party again, through force of money.
Dinesh doesn’t get it.
Wrong. It is entirely possible to agree with Dinesh! That is why we are where we are – discussing these issues.
I happen to agree with Dinesh, at least for now. I’ve been a lifelong Conservative, and Donald Trump has delivered the best, since President Reagan.
President Trump has not only appealed to traditional conservatives, but also moderate Dem’s, Independents, and people who’ve never voted before.
Within this support, there are many who have NO IDEA what Conservatism means. They’re new to politics. They’re uninformed. They’re malleable. Many are simply ignorant to the system, and what it takes to implement their ideals, which they don’t even appreciate as Conservatism.
It is so easy to get these folks riled up, and scream “new party”…but I think most of them were not active when the rest of us were paying attention.
Nothing you say is inaccurate (last paragraph excepted)... but none of it helps your argument.
Go with the Republicans, ‘ol buddy , and the Republican donors own you in under 2 years.
I’ll corrupt any naive, overawed, new MAGA House member or Senator with money and favours (“your daughter has applied to JP Morgan for a job…let’s see if I can help”…. you need to up your donor money to get on the House Judiciary Committee? No problem, how can I help”).
They don’t care if you try to take over the Republican Party…..they know that’s impossible.
And what have you to say about the horrible Dem Party, or how to be realistic in establishing a new party?
If this many Trump-voters cannot change the GOP establishment, and the voting system is corrupt, then how-on-earth do we MAGA voters make a dent with a new party?
I like the idea, but it makes no sense to me in practicality.
“And what have you to say about the horrible Dem Party,”….errrr…. how are equally corrupt Democrats relevant to this?
“how-on-earth do we MAGA voters make a dent with a new party?”
Better question.
EASY answer.
We start an all out MAGA Party, where you exclude establishment Republican elites…..OR THEIR DONORS WILL EVENTUALLY OWN YOU
Right now as Sundance has said over and over we HAVE ONE PARTY. He calls then the Uniparty.
Are in or are you out?
Dem+GOP =one party. They vote the same. They play pretend games to keep donations and votes coming. I’m not playing that game anymore.
PJ- you sound like someone who maybe ran for office or who was active in local politics.
We are in a war time situation. There is no time to start a new party.
Either we get our President Trump re-elected and inaugurated on January 20th or it’s game over. It doesn’t matter how many parties we the people have- we will never have a legitimate election again if we don’t overturn the one that just happened.
I’m with you in spirit and too am tired of being battered; however, a third party is a dangerous proposition. If too many Republicans decided to remain so, for whatever reason, we risk giving control of Congress and the WH to the Democrats. They will not hesitate to stack the court, extend their control of the Senate by adding seats from DC and Puerto Rico, give the vote to millions of non citizens, and pass universal mail in ballot box stuffing. It could be over very quickly. Trump call them “some very sick people.” I for one do not want to give them a chance to test the bounds of their sickness.
I think your assuming the GOP doesn’t want this.
Again it’s globalism vs nationalism now. Globalists want to create a Chinese like Uniparty politburo in the USA. These reforms are meant to subvert the constitution and usher in the politburo. The GOP is in on it.
Agree, Dufrst.
The argument above, by David Vicknair, is JUST what a Republican party operative would say,and has been what has kept us in this abusive relationship, all these years.
Before the 2020 election, while I expressed these thoughts on these pages, I didn’t think our movement was cohesive and united enough to make the move, en mass.
However, so many have red pilled asto the true nature of the Republicons, that I now have no doubt that if PDJT said “come”, they would leave in an instant.
But, politically while under assault he may feel like he can’t; but WE can.
Unite or die, and Join or Die, were two flags popular in 1775.
Very appropriate, today.
Dutchman- I always read and enjoy your comments even if I disagree with you on occasion as I do in this instance.
I have some questions for you and others who are advocating a new party. Have you or any others ever run for political office, local or otherwise?
Have you ever been a member of the GOP or other party and worked in any capacity for the party including campaigning, getting petitions signed, dealing with the Board of Elections, etc.?
What are the first steps you would take to start this new party- assuming also that you would want to set it up in all 50 states?
How do you propose to set up the infrastructure for this new party and register everyone to vote?
What is the time frame in which this new party would be started then up and running?
Beings they didn’t answer your question, I’ll do it for them. NO, they have never done any if the things you asked above! And yet they complain alor and assume that they will somehow steer a new party to victory.
Talk is cheap. Actually getting out there and doing the dirty work is the tough part.
Why are you afraid? It’s all already happening. The masks are off, the pretenses are dropped, and the GOP does not care anything at all about Conservatism or Representative Republicanism. Their snouts are in the public trough and they’re at it like crack whores at a free lobster buffet.
I think the Maga party would naturally form strategic alliances with like-minded Republicans– but having the Maga party would give us the structure needed to challenge the Rinos in race after race.
As long as the RINOS take the position of the dems, we basically have only the one party anyway.
I agreed to a new party concept in the prior article Sundance posted, but this article blows away any argument not to create a new party. I’m saving it in order to distribute, when and as needed. Sundance has done all the work for me/us.
What do we have to lose?
If the fraud is gone we would be able to have a third party.
It’s all on the integrity of our voting process.
I’ve been a fraud investigator most of my adult life. I watched as a busload of Californians disembarked at a polling location in Las Vegas, and the person there handed them ballots, ushered them into line, told them to vote as marked on the ballots quickly, because they needed to get to the outlet mall in time to do shopping and then return to Los Angeles. No law enforcement, local, state or federal cared. Neither did the GOP. Dirty Harry Reid was also using votes, not just tax allegations, to block Romney, and RINO Romney still thinks maybe if he tries harder, the Dems will respect him. Without integrity in elected officials and entrenched bureaucracy, fraud will continue unchecked.
The way I look at it, same as at a church: if they are spending my tithes on abominations and preaching heresy, I am sinning by being there.
Our sacred right to have our votes be counted was taken stolen, nullified, disappeared, turned into the exact opposite vote intended.
The Republican Party is refusing to protect that right and fight to give our votes back. The Supreme Court is refusing to protect that right. I will not vote Republican or any other party again until my voting right is restored…NEVER!!!
Fix The Fraud,
Some years ago Paul Volker spoke to the Economics Club of Florida. He spoke as the Chairman of the Trilateral Commission (yes, that Trilateral Commission). During the Q&A portion of the program he was asked about the Commission’s position on Social Security reform (a hot topic of the day). His answer was telling – that the Trilateral Commission did not concern itself with domestic political issues – only with “free” trade and international commerce. See why Trump and the deplorables are a threat? Judges, guns, abortion, etc are NOT important to the Big Club – only international business profits – and thus Tom Donahue and the Camber moving our factories and jobs to China while our GOP pols talk “conservatism” and the DEM pols talk “progressivism.” Also note that Trump has been speaking out against the Big Club agenda as outlined by Volker for decades, and therefor he was marked as a threat the minute he came down the escalator.
— Marshall (social status: not in the Big Club)
Start a new party! and FIGHT.
the left has dominated us, beat us, broke laws while sitting as police chiefs, mayors and DAs.
they have tried to give us the death penalty when we defend ourselves from murder.
we must find out once and for all how many of us exist that love america, americans, and anyone that loves america and americans. THATS THE PARTY I WANT. with that party we can find enough money to take care of anyone in NEED, and create an american first nation that is easy to jump from NEED to MAKING IT.
you either slowly get eaten like a chemo patient with a sadistic doctor… or you simply say its time for America for once.
NAME ONE republican doing shit for America? Any politician that has a million dollars in the bank that didnt have it before, SHOULD BE ARRESTED TONIGHT.
Well, I see how the tea party went nowhere. That I can see.
The republican party is actually stronger than ever. I would rather primary the old rotten rinos and clean house and senate that way. It will take a while, but I do not feel comfy with a third party going on. You know the old stodgy RNC would just brush us out of the way.
Pres Trump has brought so many PATRIOTS into our fold. Let’s work on defining who gets to stay in positions and who needs toleave the RNC. Let them know their days are numbered.
Different time when the tea party got smashed by the establishment on both sides and the help of the complicit media. People still believed we had a govt. that was by and large trustworthy and was working for the people. Boy have we all learned differently how deep, dark and slimy the swamp really is thanks to PTrump.
The time now would be and is, ripe for a new party something like the tea party but better and wiser and more battle hardened. It would draw all the disenfranchised repubs and probably some Dems too because of what has happened in the last 4 years and especially this past year. That is a significant number of people and with the right leaders it would be a strong party.
Now is the time to make the change and cause an earthquake to old party politics and save our country.
Silly wabbit. The Republicon party RUNS THE PRIMARIES.
They run them, so as to make fools THINK they have a choice, when they DO NOT.
The Dominion system has been used for at LEAST 20 years, although it looks like it was used in the Mexican Presidential election, in 1988!
So, HOW IS IT that Republicons still haveca “Majority” in the Senate?
How is it that ANY Republicans hold elective office?
When you eliminate the impossible (like that all those hack Rinos manage to get reelected year after year on their charm) the only reasonable conclusion you can come to, is THEY are using it, too.
RINO stands for “Republican in Name Only”; in other words, a DEMOCRAT running in a district that wouldn’t vote for him if he honestly espoused his leftist views.
And Democrats CHEAT. Its what they DO.
WISE UP, you are being PLAYED.
And, its NOT a “third party”, its a SECOND party, cause with D’s and R’s, you only have ONE PARTY; THATS what Uniparty MEANS!
100% correct! If not now, when?
Dutch:
I keep asking how every Republican incumbent in the House got re-elected? They move millions of votes to cheat Trump, but not thousands to cheat McCarthy’s people? Lucky guy, eh?
Claudia Tenney, Republican House candidate in NY’s 22nd District, (not the incumbent) was up 28K on election night. Done deal? Uh no, within a couple days she was behind. The usual nonsense of votes appearing in car trunks and broom closets. That recount still goes on, believe it or not. So non-incumbents somehow don’t have the same guardian angel.
Rosemary- the voice of common sense and reality!
I do not understand the entire debate. Such a party wil exist if President Trump wants it – and it will not exist if he doesn’t want it. So far he has not entertained the idea. It also doesn’t matter. Neither a pro-Trump GOP or a MAGA Party will win in an America with a blue Texas and an infinite supply of CCP money and Dominion votes. This is a make-or-break moment, and every distraction from that fact helps to make it a break moment. Why are people talking about parties when they’re on tape doing the fraud? It’s like wondering how the world would look like if the Confederacy had won.
“It also doesn’t matter. Neither a pro-Trump GOP or a MAGA Party will win in an America with a blue Texas and an infinite supply of CCP money and Dominion votes.”
Yup, considering how many years the laughably bad security of voting machines has been known, but has not been corrected, how the forensic report on the 16 MI machines should have, but didn’t, result in the immediate seizure and analysis of every one of the Dominion machines used nationwide in the last election, and how mailed ballots are more used now than ever before even though other countries don’t use them for anyone in-country due to experience with widespread fraud, I have come to the conclusion that the powers that be don’t want a secure system.
And Texas turning blue from liberals fleeing form the nests they’ve soiled as well as the declining demographic of old caucasions is just the tip of the iceberg on the blueing of America.
Finally, if senile pervert Beijing Biden is removed or resigns and Harris takes over before 2024, she’ll chose an even more PC VP that CONgress will easily be labeled as racist if they don’t confirm. This will endear the Dim machine to Dims for a very long time.
Hold on. What is this utter crap about “Texas going BLUE?”
A whole passel of Patriots won seats in Texas. The b.s. that Texas would turn blue, was based on the expectation that they could foist Dominion system on Texas, but Texas declined.
The Dominion system, and all its illegitimate progeny WILL be ripped out, root and branch, from our election system, IF we DEMAND it.
NOT by Republicons, who BENEFIT from the system, but by US. And NOT by simply refusing to vote, as that simply concedes without a fight.
I’m thinking adapt the Boston Tea Party model of Civil Disobedience; dress like Antifa, to confuse any LE into “standing down”.
A couple of good smacks with an ax or sledgehammer, and those Dominion machines would be useless junk.
Or, you can continue to sit on your hands, and say “Oh, nothing to be done, I give up!”
Jonah Goldberg is a disgrace to his illustrious mother. Viva Trump!
Whoopi ?
You nailed it. Spot on.
All hinges on voter fraud.
We cannot ever change anything in Washington without fair elections. We cannot change anything, for that matter, until we have fraud free honest elections.
We can fantasize about changing parties or building new but until the fraud is gone the country will perish.
I have no doubt whatsoever if our elections were fraud free we would have a Christian based country again. Rino’s would disappear and democrats would be conservative, or not at all.
There is no turning back, we might as well die in battle then as slaves. This is the hill to live or die on.
Well said, Rider…
Palerider: “we might as well die in battle then as slaves”. lol, but your statement as written suggests that we die as slaves, in battle. I am presuming that the word you use.. “then”… should be THAN.. which gives a totally different meaning to your statement…
(words HAVE meaning)
For change to stop DemoRats, we become Soldiers in the Army. We have to Defeat them at their Game.
A Soldier Fights for the Betterment and Security Our Country. As the old Spiritual Song goes:
We are Soldiers, in the Army, We Got to Fight, Although We Got to Cry.
We Got to Hold Up the Blood Stain Banner, We Got to Hold IT Up Until We Die.
My Mother was a Soldier. She had her Hands on Her “Gospel Plow,” but
One Day She Got Old, She Could NOT FIGHT ANYMORE,
She said I Will Stay Here and FIGHT On!! Anyhow.
To Go Up Against a Broken System…the Momentum is Now or Never and to Never Give Up the Fight.
WE GOT HOLD IT UP….HOLD IT UP as Soldiers.
Dinesh is an awesome guy, but he’s forever spamming his Parler feed (I had to unfollow him) with a constant stream of posts and reposts (you know, just in case we missed something during the first eight or nine times he or his wife posted something), although now that I mention it, I’m not too terribly impressed with Parler, as it only seems to work if you’re already ridiculously famous.
It’s a great replacement for Twitter, but that’s about it.
Where was I, again?
Dinesh D’ouza, like Laura Ingraham, is first generation trash that obtained an ivy league degree. They were allowed in as repub house as ivy league house slaves in the 80s. Dinesh & Ingraham are establishment repub bundled no doc mortgages that are now bailing the Bushes and other establishment out after Trump burst the common man bubble
Dinesh D’Souza, like Laura Ingraham, is first generation trash that obtained an ivy league degree. They were allowed in as repub house as ivy league house slaves in the 80s. Dinesh & Ingraham are establishment repub bundled no doc mortgages that are now bailing the Bushes and other establishment repubs out after Trump burst the common man bubble and effectively slaughtered the repub party in 2016
Who opened the door to China ? Richard Nixon. The opening to the left frequently is led by apparently conservative figures to do its dirty work Z
I support a MAGA Party.
Reagan wrestled with all this, too, and chose to build within the Party. (recommended: reading: The New Republican Party and Let Them Go Their Way). Over time, though, it became the Party of Reagan-Fakers. That’s why Paul Ryan is supporting Biden who he once debated. He’s even pimping RUSSSIARUSSIARUSSIA today, just like Hillary. Way to Aaron Burr us, Paul!
Even William F. Buckley’s old magazine, now a parking lot windshield flyer used to beg alms from Democrat billionaires, cheerleads for a Communist Coup in America instead of being “governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory”. Such is the rot.
And Mitch used Dominon Cheatware to rig his own Senate race and to cheat us out of the landslide we gave to our President. Gutless Mitch and his Decepticon Posse don’t want to stand up before 80 million Trump voters whose votes they helped deny and be forced to vote against President Trump in public. They want to hide behind their crime.
That’s Thune, Barrasso, Cornyn, Blount–all of them. These Republican Globalist Kleptocrats may be marginally better on some policy than the Unhinged Communist Zealots who run the Democrat Party, but they are just as bad on corruption and bribery–and far worse on your Right to free and fair elections, because they are close enough to be back-stabbers.
If you really believe your boy Joe won, stand up and vote, Mitch, you chinless coward. And be damned. Ass.
BUT–if we don’t get honest elections TODAY, it won’t matter if we’re a new party or not. There is no need for any more elections at all if they are all stolen. If they succeed, elections are over. Those are the stakes.
So, let “free and fair elections” be one of the Uniting causes OF the new SECOND PARTY.
AND NO, the Republicons are NOT “marginally better” on some issues, they just TALK the talk, but intentionally DON’T walk the walk.
THEY are how we got where we are, today. By CONNING us, while excusing their constant “losing” of EVERY MAJOR POLICY DEBATE to the left, as “the party of stupid” or worse “fighting by marquis of queensbury rules, while Libs streetfight”.
Funny how they forget all those rules, when fighting off a primary challenger!
ITS A CON. McConnell is Pelosi, in a mask. BOTH are members of the CCP-USA Politoburo.
Both are intent of “Transforming America” into a Conmunist shitehole, the Republicons are just playing the role of the inept, bumbling opposition party, who somehow manages to LOSE, EVERY TIME, in policy debates, DESPITE having the better argument. On purpose, get it?
Reminds me of Teddy Roosevelts attempt at the Bull Moose Party. The country is too big, with too many people, and too large a financial requirement to create a viable 3rd party in my opinion. However, President Trump and the RNC should be much more proactive at forming the brand and systematically removing RINOs.
You CAN NOT remove the RINOS; it is THEIR party, NOT PDJT’s.
He did a “Hostile takeover” of the Presidency, but he never had the support of the party hierarchy.
McConnell and Ryan were “in on” the muh russia coup attempt, FROM THE PLANNING STAGES.
What your suggesting, would be like saying you can “fix” the Democrat party.
Its patently absurd.
Frankly, I see why the political class thinks we Deplorables are too stupid to live.
Just your opinion. And why insert “Delorables are too stupid to live”. Well, we are living. Working hard for our families and teaching them to love America AND it’s history.
Imagine a fine house–a beautiful house. It has endured fires, years of storms and all manner of environmental threats. But unseen is the rot and damage from pests. Slowly over the years those pests accumulate and eat away at the structure, weakening it. Then one day, it becomes apparent the beautiful house cannot be saved. It’s beyond repair.
THAT is the Republican Party. It must be abandoned.
I knew I despised McConnell, but now?? I wouldn’t pea on him if he was on fire. Unchristian??
So is he.
Might throw some accellerant on him, though. Definetly rooting for the fire!
Mitch’s request for no one to object the elector count?? He’s terrified Trump will get another term.
If his dedication to China/CofC/big business/global govt./ isn’t shown with this move, then we are blind.
I was part of the Tea Party and just now am learning his back stabbing deeds? Where have I been??
Under a rock??
If a new party is to be formed it has to be now and with President Trump totally involved. With out his support and active participation it will be a long and probably unproductive slog. In other words it has to be a “strike while the iron is hot” situation.
Money is important but enthusiasm and drive is much more important. Look at the Democrats this election —they a billions being spent directly and indirectly ( Bloomberg in the southern states, Zuckerberg in the swing states) etc. But in the end, if Biden is inaugurated on Jan 20 it will only be the result of massive cheating and fraud –the money on it’s own was not enough.
Good post, Ross.
If Biden is inaugerated on Jan 20,….ALL of Congress will be there.
The treasonous Joint Chiefs, the treasonous Supremes, everybody who is anybody or WANTS to be anybody, will be there,…something to consider.
I am in. I hoped President Trump would break the R party in 2016 and he did.
I am for the Trump Party.
A new party also would highlight & remove the “cuckservative movement.” They still don’t really like PDJT but honestly think they can move on from him but keep Trump supporters for themselves. ?
They neex to go too.
President Trump has suffered the most from the traitor’s coup.
He has earned the right to set the course for the millions of patriots who support him.
He retooled America’s trade deals and regulations in the mold of America First so that they would live long after his two terms.
As a result of the coup, he will do the same thing with the “party system” for elections.
That is just how he does things.
President Trump’s revised party plan should be the starting point for the post Trump era beginning in 2025.
Republican Party is dead.
Blue Blood in Red States.
We should pay McConnell off with a $100MM payout.
Would he take it?
We could compete with China in buying politicians. Give them all the money they want.
I’d be fine with that. Make them eat it.
ps it’s all a bad joke them vying for power and money. Both of which are illusions
I’m all in for the third party. Let’s do it. Patriot Party.
There’s a miscalculation among those say that 75 million voters are on board for a new party or movement. Truth be told, 50 to 60 million of the people who voted for PDJT would’ve voted for any generic Republican. Outside of a Pierre Dilecto type, I would have also.
Another issue that always trips up 3rd parties is the power struggles that develop within the movement. If you’re aiming for a 50 statewide coalition, that will require alot of people who may have their own ideas of how to advance the MAGA agenda. Just take a look at this board to see how people here differ on how to advance the cause.
.Then there’s the transition… between the birth of a MAGA party, and the irrelevance of the Turtle’s remnant… when they will have enough votes to affect a split, and MAGA comes up short.
Because it will only take one victory by the criminal enterprise known as the Democrat party (for. ex. give voting rights to 11-22 million illegals) to ensure there will never be another Republican president.
And then they won’t even have to cheat.
Another good point Magabear… but, perhaps there would be less ego against ego if the people within the movement are TRULY for KAG… and NOT in it for themselves.. (dreaming again)
Thus far nobody who is touting this new party has provided any of the nuts and bolts details of how exactly this party will be started in all 50 states and gotten up and running. There’s a reason it has been impossible to have a meaningful third party- the Dems and Repubs still control the process.
We don’t need to go through this hell. President Trump owns the current Repub party along with his 100 million voters. LET CHINA MITCH AND THE TRAITORS START THEIR OWN DAMN PARTY.
Take over the GOP or form a new party?
Our movement is big enough to do either one, but not both. Personally, I’ll follow President Trump’s lead. If he leaves the GOP, I leave, too. If he (keeps?) trying to reform it from within, I’ll stay and help.
P.S. When I say I haven’t left the Republican Party, I mean I’m registered so as to vote in the primaries and I hold my nose in the general elections and vote against the Democrats on ticket.
SD hits all the right notes with this argument.. the GOPe always plays the “where else can you go “ card .. I say crank up new party..???
I think there would be regional sweeps of people leaving the GOP-branch of the Uniparty.
For example, my guess is here in Texas probably 85% of GOP would leave to join a “Patriot Party” led by Trump.
The 15% would be hard-core Bushies or Chamber of Commerce cheap-labor numbskulls. They would wind up either crawling to the Patriot Party or in secret supporting demo-rats hoping to continue mutual back-scratching deals.
Bookmarked this one. Sundance condensed so much ammo that I had to save it for later. Outstanding!
Kill the GOP–divorce them. Political secession. It’s the only way.
A lot of interesting discussion and ideas here, and it begs the question: WHAT IS A POLITICAL PARTY?
I believe the “ruling class” problem is the people elected not THE party or the name of the party. A pig with lipstick ? is still a pig ?. What we elect now – for the most part- are do-nothing career politicians. Yet, the GOP foundation is a sound, conservative ideology with moral principles.
The system needs term limits and the election of non-politicians who come in with good ideas, provide a service, and leave after a term or two. THEY SHOULD GAIN NOTHING YET GIVE ALL. Congress members and senators should sign a contract with the people promising to do xyz and if promises are broken it results in they being fired. They are employees- they are not royalty. The job should be difficult, of short duration and challenging not a life long of perks and platitudes.
Thank You, Sundance! What an eye-opening thread! There is only one Sundance.
This GOP thinks they have 75 million voters and all they want is PDJT gone and think they can fund raise off the millions , I got so many letters and pictures and membership cards from every Republican that holds office , held office , washed up , all wanting money . The IRS held my 7K tax refund check because I was listed GOP , had to get Jeff Duncan to get it released after 8 months .
The great Eric Hoffer explained it all: America is the country built by and for the common man. Elitists are not needed here, and they know it. Elitists inside and outside America hate it.
Elitist politicians strive to masquerade as common men. Biden, as per usual for American Presidents, is pretending to be a Christian. China is a society of a few elites ruling over a sea of peasants. All communist countries soon assume this form. It’s a return to feudalism, the pre-American norm. Elitists covet and much prefer this – that’s why, bizarrely, so many American rich men are so sympathetic to communist societies.
Donald Trump, soon after descending the escalator, prescribed that the Republican Party should become a worker’s party. That’s been the answer for a long time. The so-called Reagan Democrats were the private sector working people inside the Democrat Party. They left, and the government workers and the government-dependent poor remained. The election workers who cheated Trump on election night were Democrats, working for the benefit of their Party and themselves – cheating was the obvious choice for them.
The so-called Uniparty is just the American rich and their lackeys, working for their own benefit. The bulk of opposition to Trump’s policies came from the rich, furiously advocating for their own narrow interests over the good of the country. The big agri-businesses opposed a southern border wall. They need the cheap labor. Paul Ryan obeyed them, his true masters.
Most of all, the rich are now committed to a deep interweaving of America’s society and economy with China. It seems unavoidable that any new Party, or any serious new direction for the Republican Party, will have to take an anti-China tone. This could be handed to us, if China begins acting belligerently, like by attacking Taiwan. There’s clearly elements within China’s government that want to go in this bellicose direction.
Nothing de-stabilizes and nothing infuriates an existing order like simple truth. Our elitists understand this, and they created a news media of near-total lies and propaganda. Fox News is being co-opted, and we’re losing ground. We therefore need the simple truth to come from the politicians themselves, a tall order. That’s why the double-talking RINOs frustrate us so.
I’m a Trumplican. All the way!
I agree with Dinesh D’Souza but need somekind organization that discourage and educates who’s a RINO and who isn’t during the primaries. With Dem going Commie I think we should quick their extinction. We can have a two party system with Republicans & Federalists (but not the Federalist Society which is corrupt Commies).
Since about… 08 Glenn Beck and many patriots (me) have been trying to expose the RINOs and primary them out. IT’S IMPOSSIBLE!
Fox News is their Megaphone. Fox is RINO’s propaganda.
Now, I think RINOs have been cheating to get re-elected. It just makes too much sense. In that case voting them out will not happen, ever. Dinesh is wrong.
The only way to get rid of them is to vote for Independent/ MAGA and be done with the GOP.
Right now we have nothing to lose. ( that is, if they remove Trump with current coup attempt) If they don’t we need the Senate and must vote for those 2 in Georgia.
Trump is asking us to vote.
We can take over the Republican Party easier than winning with a new party the first time out. And winning the first election is essential. The state/ local GOP organizations will have to find one and only one challenger to suppport, for every office. This calls for Trumpian elan and commitment from us all, and we can do it.
The only thing is: Donald Trump has to cooperate with us, and be the leader to defeat incumbents in the primaries of 2022 and 2024. He’ll have to travel the country and rally talk with millions of Americans.
Talk like, “Democrats cheat you so they win; Democrats want Communism to put them in Stalin’s seat. The old Republicans just want money and position and to lose to Democrats. They only pretended to be on your side. The Man’s been keeping you down. Now is the time for the People! America First!
“We are making new True Blue Republicans! You can vote for yourself and vote America First! MAGA!”
2020 Republican Party = Romney.
Hell no! Over my dead body I will prop that up. Might as well embrace AOC. Just as bad.
They expect me to get out of the comfort of my home to vote and give Mitch, Romney, Sasse etc a cushy job, prestige, power, privilege… for what? What’s in it for me? They hate me and make sure to let me know that every chance they get.
They work for the left. Go ask them for vote and money. They have nothing to offer me.
Danesh, this is too good not to use twice…..
“They don’t care if you try to take over the Republican Party…..they know that’s impossible”.
It is impossible. We have been trying.
Independent candidates don’t have primaries. (we could have a MAGA Independent)
Those of us in Open Primary states would vote in the Democrat primary to oust their incumbent. Or even register as a Dem if your state requires to oust their swamp incumbent in the primary.
General we would all vote for the Independent/ MAGA against the other 2 uniparty swamp.
Sure we may lose but it will be fun watching them having to split the stolen votes from our candidate. And watching them pour money in races where they never had to before. Celebrities will have to campaign for every single seat. Their own safe seats.
Safe no more, we are coming for you.
Come on folks we need to do something different.
Even as we speak, in the midst of the dirtiest election of our lifetime and reruns of “Tyrants Gone Wild”, Mao Tse Mitch’s sole focus is making everyone stay until they make enough stimulus popsicle sticks for everyone!
GTFO!
Once the Donald turns the lights out on Mitch they’ll be a stampede for the exits.
If our side keep this chatter up, the swamp will freak out.
This needs to pick up some traction. They need to fear us.
Before Trump, I had quit voting. I am sure there are many more like me. Wherever Trump goes, I follow. Screw the GOP. Tired of getting played.