Palantir CEO Alex Karp is a little quirky but, on this issue, I tend to agree with him.
According to Karp in the interview below the request by OpenAI and Anthropic AI labs for government regulation is related to a legal issue within their business model. Right now, massive multinational corporations are working with AI groups under contract. As part of those contracts the leaders of the corporations are discovering their individual business plans, what they call their intellectual property (IP) has been uploaded into the dataset of the AI models themselves.
These corporations have spent billions of dollars on their detailed business plans, marketing plans, logistics and revenue systems that are now part of the AI dataset. These CEOs are not happy and talking about lawsuits against the AI developers for stealing their corporate intellectual property. However, at the same time the CEOs are furious at the loss of proprietary information, they are simultaneously bound to the AI developers for forward revenue. This is creating a problem.
Example: By some analyst’s estimations, Amazon’s forward revenue projection is approximately 51% dependent on further technological capability through the use of AI. However, Jeff Bezos likely does not appreciate his business model, which includes a massive dataset that he makes money from, being taken and uploaded to the AI database. Bezos could sue Anthropic for ip theft.
All of the AI labs are exposed to this litigation if it was to unfold. Additionally, all of the investors into the AI frontier labs would be at risk if the AI developer were sued by these corporations. Both the AI developers and their investors would/are demanding protection from these lawsuits.
Here’s where it gets complicated.
If a wave of lawsuits were launched it would seriously hurt the market valuation of the AI developers. However, simultaneously, if the AI developers get government protection (ie Sec.230, federal immunity from lawsuits) that removes entry barriers for startup AI companies, which increases AI competition, which could also reduce the market value of the major AI developers.
Alex Karp with Palantir already has this type of immunity from lawsuits due to the collaborative nature of the national security dynamic that Karp has developed with the U.S. government. However, the AI developers do not have this type of relationship. The AI developers previously said they did not want government interference, but now they want government protection. Privatize the upside (profit), then socialize the risk (losses).
As this dynamic unfolds, you can well imagine all the high-finance influencers who fund various political candidates and Super-PACs are positioning their own interests. An investor in AI would seek the protection of the investment and the elimination of lawsuit risk. Those institutional investors and billionaires would pay political campaigns and special interest advocacy to secure the value of their investment.
The politicians are being purchased by the investors into AI development. The goal is to grant the AI labs immunity from lawsuits.
There are trillions at stake.
If a potential AI threat has to manifest in order to force public support for the liability protection, then so be it.
Perhaps that’s what we are seeing.
Under this unfolding scenario, the tech sector of the stock market looks a little sketchy right now.
Soooo A.I. is just massively ripping off intellectual property and the creators want immunity from theft?
Indemnity will just make that theft more lucrative with minimal downside.
Same as indemnifying big harma for their drugs that got on the vaccination schedule for children.
Money talks.
The language models are collecting corporate info public and non
Huge issue. Companies need to iron curtain their data from these open AI modellers. The other big thing is theft of corporate companies clients data. That’s another shoe to drop
Air gapping all those systems might kill the Cloud business model.
Those terms are acceptable.
Wait for the bubble to burst and then get in the market after the huge bear is done killing everything. Eleven minutes but well worth it if you’re an investor.
Alt: https://xcancel.com/gnoble79/status/2100181959095841246
AI will implode. Should we survive , at least we’ll have plenty of power plant capacity.
Every single big company who dove into the AI frenzy is in the red big time…leveraged and borrowed to try and get ahead.
NO bailouts for these clowns. The liability issues alone will cause many to pause.
Trump is all in on AI so I do see him “help” the industry no matter what.
(ahem) * ethanol *
(cough)
I see this being talked about aa ‘the AI bubble is going to burst’. It is ‘overvalued’.
Of course, they want government protections while keeping all of the info, profits, and facilities.
Reverse socialism, only the elites get the big paydays and protection. Neo-Fascism, the oligarchy and foreign interests tell the gov’t what to do and, mostly (but not completely) excluding PDJT, owns the three branches of gov’t.
Welfare for the elites — Anarcho-tyranny and shithole communities for the serfs.
Government is pathetic.
There are major missing details here .. with this complaint by Palintir CEO.
What were the statement of work tasks as well as terms and condictions in the contract assigned to these “contracted AI Development Labs”??
The AI Labs were not just hired and turned loose on the Companies which contracted them.
There is a Statements of Work.
Non Disclosures.
Terms and Conditions.
“Technical” Interfaces-Interactions to be Defined and Limits to Data Access … based on the statement of work.
Just to name a few key contractual documents that require: business, engineering as well as legal-lawyer inputs. You F-up just these few key items and you are SOL.
Also, what was the competency of the technical staff on Palantir’s side of the arrangements, who were supposed to provide oversight to the work?? Or did palantir not have an oversight staff … pretty stupid move.
This could either be a REAL problem or the people working for Palantir did a piss-poor job representing the end of the contracting … and this CEO is playing like a soccer player doing a 3-roll dive after being touched.
This is going to sound odd … but major companies who have done business with the Department of War as Prime Contractors are best prepared for dealing with AI Sub-Contractors. This is a case where Civilian Industry needs to learn some contracting and contract management practices from an industry they laughed at for years.
Rogue coders and programming violate SOWs
“Palantir CEO Alex Karp is a little quirky but…..”
I’m gonna follow Sundance’s lead on this one but….Karp has pivoted. IMHO he remains a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
Trust Trump
Karp is afraid that his software will be obsolete with joint Claude and Amazon AWS Cloud enterprise computing.
If Karp is a little quirky, Sam Altman is off the charts weird, but that’s what we get when we put techie nerds at the head of the class.
My understanding is that chat and the other AI systems built their dataset by uploading copyrighted material and everything else under the sun. It’s ironic that some are now worried about legal exposure to litigation.
Nothing shuts down an operation faster than unauthorized copyright infringements. even China Inc. is cracking down on copyright violators.
There is something missing here concerning who hired the AI Labs to build those databases.
Yes, even Cchina Inc. is concerned with legalities because they are in business for the long term .. not just 1-time smash and grabs.
Copyrighted or not, AI (rules based programming) requires human generated knowledge to feed it. It is highly efficient at then processing massive data sets through a set of rules, also created by humans.
One inevitable consequence that our AI Masters are facing is that AI-digested information is now mingling with original, truly human content. How can AI tell the difference without clueing in us humans to what they are up to?
IMHO, they will be able to contain this for a while by adding exponentially more data centers and CPU power. There are better was to do it but they do not result in central control.
Why America Pours Concrete, China Releases Code
https://datacentermadness.com/china-concrete/
Those “AI SOFTWARE developing humans” are also “supposed” to be limited by the contractual arrangements of the people who hire them … and there also is “supposed to be” competent oversight by the Contracting Company to ensure the contract is followed by the humans.
I have seem this before. They will sneak in an update to the T&C’s that someone just clicks “I agree”. or… and I can tell you first hand an example – accounting got a invoice with fine print on the back that said essentially… “this payment relinquishes any prior IP restrictions of either party”. Fortunately we had a very savvy accountant.
It was a behemoth company – we could never have won in court.
Did this stuff for over 30-years as a Chief Engineer working proposals and contracts. Learned allot at the elbow of our lawyers and specialists.
Know what you mean … still goes to competency and oversight to ensure compliance.
As in the case you point out … being smart enough to write in safeguards with respect to approvals. We had a subcontractor try this trick but they lost big due to the approval clauses.
Reminds me of the good ol’ free music Napster days. Napster is now an AI company.
Napster was shut down for copyright issues as are large numbers of music and entertainment sights today … shutdown even by China Inc.
Maybe they accumulated a lot of information from users on top of sharing music files?
Sweet. Hope I can sue because they took my IP related to Pirate History comments I’ve made here and elsewhere.
Who is the Pirate now?! Arrgh.
Wasnt it a few weeks ago a picture of a warehouse full of books to be uploaded? I’m sure every author was well compensated more than the purchase of one book for the potential millions of downloads of their product.
That’s what they did. Didn’t think twice
Yeah we have a team’s plan with Claude and as part of our agreement they are not training their models on our data. If it were to come out that they are the liability would be significantly higher than their current capital expenses
“as part of our agreement they are not training their models on our data”
And you believe them? Does your team have any tools or data access to verify?
I wonder about Anthropic and the Pentagon. How much of our defense systems etc etc has been uploaded to Anthropic and shared with CHYNNNA?
Hoist them on their own petard.
So no one thought of this happening until now?
The AI
developersINVESTORS previously said they did not want government interference, but now they want government protection.Privatize the upside (profit), then socialize the risk (losses).
Kinda like the jab manufacturers and others who received liability protection within the EUA during the scambemic!
And the pesticides companies?
Aren’t they protected against lawsuits?
Thank you Sundance.
Looks like someone is tugging at the bottom layer on this house of cards. How much will it stand before it pulls a Solyndra and comes tumbling down?
Money, it’s a gas.
Small and medium size businesses can’t afford it, but the very large businesses would be nuts not to buy their own data centers and then just lease the AI software to use. That way they keep their intellectual property in house.
It’s like me buying Microsoft Office, and running it on my home computer — instead of renting Office “in the cloud” where all my data sits on MS servers.
JP Morgan gonna be bigly mad when Wells Fargo uses AI based upon JPMs data set to steal customers. Couldn’t happen to a more lovely crowd, but still….
I see a food fight coming that will complete dwarf Animal House
The public who were forever injured or worse rage against the liability protection given to Big Pharma by Congress for the egregious, irreparable harm they did and will be doing into perpetuity with their mRNA gene therapy.
We didn’t ask for it. We didn’t want it.
And yet it was granted, leaving the public to pay for their own terrible health outcomes from being bullied and mandated (and punished if they didn’t) to get injected with a substance which was known to cause death and endless, life-long debilitating side effects.
Force public support for liability protection for AI?
Memories are fresh from the last time…
Maybe I’m missing something…
But I bet that Sisyphus has more chance of pushing his boulder to the top of the hill before that happens.
Get stuffed.
Agree, and It is time to remove all liability protection granted to big pharma for both the childhood vaccine schedule and all other vaccines.
Tired of big pharma and the government hiding and lying about all the damage done.
anthropic’s new business model might as well be making money from litigation since their old business model got blown to smithereens by the infinitely more affordable (free, and almost free) chynese llms
openai (should be named closedai) and anthropic’s only hope is for the u.s. government to kneecap their competition
anything short of that spells disaster and bankruptcy
the super dario brothers are in full panic mode, grasping desparately for an out
they’re trapped
However, simultaneously, if the AI developers get government protection
Oh, like big pharma and vaccines in was it 1982?
Use the same playbook since it works every other time.
If those CEOs were familiar with John Lennox’s 2084 and his source information, they wouldn’t have been surprised.
Who did they think was “instructing” AI to “know things”?
“Under this unfolding scenario, the tech sector of the stock market looks a little sketchy right now.”
While the tech sector getting a correction might drag others along with it and folks’ 401Ks, etc probably have tech stocks (on purpose), I would think many folks would be fine with tech getting a bit of a face plant.
**Not investment advice***. I have personally loaded up on cybersecurity stocks. Me thinks they gonna be busy
it is written…
I’d have to dig up the video I saw it discussed, but recently a researcher had used one or both of OpenAI and Anthropic to help run calculations on one of the top unsolved math problems. It was his and others he was working with intellectual ideas used to advance novel theories leading to a possible solution. One of them, OpenAI or Anthropic, got wind of it and used there unlimited access to tokens and solved it based on his novel information being put into the models on account of using the AI.
Private AI is the future. You can create scaffolding (cursor prior to being bought by Musk nearly competed with frontier models using cheap Chinese models but their own scaffolding [how the AI works and fine tuning]), guardrails and RAG and can outperform most frontier models in specific niches: that’s what most people need help with to hit exponential growth based on their own novel ideas.
Look up Navier-Stokes OpenAI Controversy.
I started my hardware/software career in aerospace in the late 70’s. My mentor Warren, was a crusty rocket engineer from Huntsville Alabama. He’d always bring me software specs he needed to review.
We were using assembly language, Fortran and COBOL. Every year, like clockwork, our company would tell us to evaluate AI and how we could apply it to what we were working on. Back then, this was pretty much Prolog and LISP. Warren asked me to explain “this AI stuff” to him.
When I was done he said…. “Sounds to me like a self-eating watermelon”.
The more things change, the more they stay the same, ‘cept this time we have trillions of dollars and a cabal of evil bankers and globalists fueling the madness.
The first guy I ever heard use the phrase “privatize profit and socialize risk” was David Stockman. I have no idea who actually coined the phrase, but he was referring at the time to most of our financial system in America. His point was that we do not have capitalism in our country and haven’t for generations. What’s the old saying, heads we win, tails you lose……
This is Palantir’s take on top of other cynical views already offered, and with more doubtlessly to come.
This very much reminds me of when John Kerry rushed onto the scene with a proposal to regulate the Internet … for its own good dontcha know.
Sundance just nailed it.