Late last night (midnight) the House members were called back to session in order to vote on a procedural rule to facilitate a negotiated FISA(702) extension. The advancement vote failed to pass the House (200-220) collapsing the bill, which is not a bad outcome all things considered.
House Republican leaders posted a compromise FISA amendment just before 11 p.m., and then called the House members to vote. The Amendment would have extended FISA (702) for five years and did include language that would have strengthened criminal penalties for misuse of the program, and some language that would have required warrants under certain circumstances.
However, there is strong opposition in the House to a FISA(702) extension that doesn’t contain a full warrant requirement when the FISA search targets, directly or indirectly, an American citizen. A rather eclectic group of Republicans including: Brian Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Andy Harris (Md.), Darin LaHood (Ill.), Thomas Massie (Ky.), Mariannette Miller-Meeks (Iowa), Zach Nunn (Iowa), Andy Ogles (Tenn.), Scott Perry (Pa.), John Rose (Tenn.), Keith Self (Texas), Mike Turner (Ohio) and Jeff Van Drew (N.J.) voted against the bill.
Leftists are voting against anything Trump supports, though there are some democrats who are consistent in their efforts to stop FISA (702) for many years. You can tell from the Republicans who opposed last night’s bill, that there is also a wide divergence of opinion on the issue.
My personal opinion is that most of the legislature, both parties, don’t have any honest understanding of how FISA (702) is used, has been used, and will likely continue to be used. While this effort at reauthorization may have failed, it’s not really a bad thing and more time for lawmakers to get educated on the core issue is always a good thing.
The root of the issue is the Fourth Amendment and ultimately the process that FISA (702) touches on, which is electronic surveillance.
The use of FISA (702) against a U.S. citizen has only been tested in one court case and that case wasn’t a great example {SEE HERE}. Only one case has ever pushed into the sphere of challenging this unconstitutional exploitation. A 2025 decision in the U.S. v. Hasbajrami case in Brooklyn, New York, where Eastern District Judge LaShann DeArcy Hall identified the misuse of FISA-702 “backdoor searches” regarding defendant, Agron Hasbajrami.
Politico has tried to make the FISA (702) reauthorization an issue of division between President Trump -who supports it- and Tulsi Gabbard who supports Trump’s decision. {LINK}
DNI Tulsi Gabbard appears to have just as many reservations as us about allowing the government to search an electronic database that contains our private papers and effects without a warrant. It is simply a Fourth Amendment concern.
At the same time, President Trump is told FISA (702) surveillance is critical for DHS, deportations, domestic terrorism intercepts and foreign intelligence use that relates to U.S. military application. All of which is likely true because the core of the FISA (702) search issue is warrantless real-time surveillance.
The collection of data, the database itself, as well as the search functioning therein, is part of the toolbox for FISA-702 surveillance.
The historic problem is not that “authorities granted under FISA-702” were/are used to conduct surveillance; but rather the search of the NSA collection database was done, illegally and frequently, for non-authorized reasons.
The capability to conduct those search queries is maintained by justifying the need for FISA-702.
The historic searches and domestic surveillance were done by exploiting the NSA database, for a reason and purpose that is not authorized and has nothing to do with FISA-702. THAT’S THE PROBLEM.
The existence of the U.S. citizen data itself creates the opportunity to search it. The legal justification to search that database is done under the auspices of FISA-702; however, that’s not the issue. The issue is that searches of the NSA database are done by government officials and government contractors for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with FISA-702.
As a consequence, it’s the collection that creates the problem. Not the legal process for searching it. As long as the database exists there will be unlawful intrusions into it for domestic and/or political surveillance.
If FISA-702 did not exist, the quasi-constitutional justification for the wholesale collection of U.S. citizen metadata no longer exists. It really is that simple.
There is ZERO justification for the capture of U.S. citizen data by the government. The capture itself violates the Fourth Amendment. The only way the government can justify the capture of U.S. Citizen data is if there is some quasi-constitutional or national security reason for it.
Take away “702”, and the data collection collapses; ANY “incidental” search of the database then loses any plausible legal justification. 702 is the camel’s nose under the tent.
If you remove FISA (702) from the toolbox you remove the legal authority to search the database when any American citizen data is involved.
It appears the House has given themselves two more weeks to continue trying to find a solution.

Pray
As long as the database exists there will be unlawful intrusions into it for domestic…….
exactly. whatever can be abused, will be abused. if you make a doomsday device, the psychos will make a line to push the button.
Whatever can be abused
Will be
The issue is it’s not schoolhouse rock anymore
Words matter
Ask. . . Corney
One cannot walk into Wells Fargo
And fire a board member
To stop a foreclosure on a Wells Fargo mortgage they pay every month for 20 years
Who are you
Where are you
What leverage do you posses
How do you use it ?
Jurisdiction
Is
Key
__________
What is being surveilled?
Who is surveilling it?
Is it a property?
A security?
Or
Data?
Is it data about movement?
Which court has jurisdiction?
If it’s verbal cell phone conversations about movement,
Is this different from emails. . .
About planned wire or SWIFT Transfers ?
Is it about a US Citizen or
an undocumented immigrant
Or. . . .
What if due to legal
And
Financial definitions
An undocumented immigrant
Was receiving
Social
Security. . .
From a US Citizen SS#
BEING ADMINISTRATED
IN A ZIP CODE
GOVERNED BY
SENATORS
____________
who has jurisdiction over the county
Chicago is in?
What district court presides over it
What FEDERAL Reserve DISTRICT
Is it in?
What collateral has been securitized?
Who controls that data?
What is that data worth
📫
After decades of watching C Span
And reading regulatory manuals
To engage in international banking
And
Commodities trading
I realize
Words matter
So does formatting as it slows the brain down
And forces changes in thinking
Corney shows you things
Comey won’t
The FISA hearings
Have some very specific language. . .
Legally and financially
Speak clearly.
No doubt this data base has been used and abused since its inception. The IC has done this before FISA and the courts were designated as “legal surveillance” because of “national security”. More like protection of criminal activity by those with bad intentions. Expecting the “honor system” to be followed by those with no honor is a fool’s errand.
Thank you, Sundance, for the clear explanation and support of all American’s Fourth Amendment rights.
Seems like it is time for members of Congress to get with Sundance for a civics lesson..
Blessings to you, Sundance! 🙏🏻🙏🏻👊👊🇺🇸🇺🇸
The core of the issue is
American Civics
Are unrelated
To United States Commerce
Or
Securities and Exchanges
_________
District Courts have greater LEGAL power
Over
A States Commercial Contracts
Than a President
Unless or until
Americans start trying to see how the system has metastisized in this manner
Instead of arguing about the constitution
And school house rock
Nothing
Will
Change
Your chosen format is lets say very trying.
Carry on
If you don’t want your kids to eat cookies, don’t stuff the cookie jar full of them.
The gross abuse of the search function is mind blowing in scope and scale. Forget lawfare/DS spying for a moment. How much of congressional insider trading is conducted based upon the NSA database capturing business comms?
Nancy Pelosi doesn’t have a natural talent for picking stocks.
What if. . .
Nancy Pelosi
Is the name of a TRUST
and Nancy is just little Debbie. . .
On the package
And Nancies Heirs, Assigns and Board members
Are the traders. . .
Reaping the profits
Stop watching the stage
Read the Play Bill
And credits. . .
For executive producers
I’d accept a FISA extension, if it was bundled with SAVE America Act.
That’s one way to get something to pass, assuming that CONgress wants one and not the other. But what if CONgress wants neither bill to pass?
I’m not willing to trade anything. The unconstitutional opportunity goes away, SAVE or not.
I wouldn’t, because the states can resolve the voter ID issue, but they cannot abolish FISA.
@ JoAnn Leichiter
🏆
Those 50 laboratories of self determination are on a one legged stool. Alas if the judiciary were not so corrupted at state and federal level. Would the progressive communists have such sustaining impact?
Yet the states have NOT resloved the voter Id issue.
Not saying I think FISA should pass. Protecting citizens data (without a warrant) is of chief concern.
agree ….they just need to get a warrant and shut up
This is one of the issues I strongly disagree with PDJT47, but I am not about to start a podcast and declare his entire presidency a failure or under complete control of his billionaire buddies or (gasp!) Israel. I’m going to remain cautiously optimistic that he has good reason for his position.
Edit: What happened to not signing any bills until the SAVE Act hits his desk?
Have any bills been signed?
I halfway feel like President Trump specifically endorsed the FISA extension because he knew it would drive the congressional Democrats to oppose it with all their might.
They still hold it against Schumer that he let the Big Beautiful Bill pass. The rule for the Dems now is that nothing President Trump wants can pass.
If this succeeds in killing FISA, I really think President Trump should endorse breathing, just to get the Dems to stop.
This crossed my mind as well.
The “big beautiful bill” passed cause it had stuff the democrats wanted.
The FISA passes for same reason.
“Save America” cuts too deep in democrat votes.
And really, America is now a past thought. It waxes and wanes but freedom left the stage long time ago. Probably the moment a single profit was made on anything. A few beads sold to Indians. Now we kill the opposition.
This greed is our destruction. It’s taught and championed. It has destroyed our planet.
Every invention that can solve problems is destroyed so profit flows. Evil people rule and run our world. And for what?
“Sell all you have and give to the poor” that’s a cure not a mandate.
Jesus had it all, the riches man in history. He didn’t carry cards or cash. Anyone we know can feed 5000 with two fish and 3 loaves, whenever he wants? Pull coin from fish? Heal anyone. Gave it all and said you shall do greater than these.
I had similar thoughts, but I think that’s a bit too clever. What this does is give the neo confederate secessionists and their friends across the aisle a chance to crow about the success of bipartisanship “if Orange Man Bad would just get out of the way.”
That is exactly what I thought…
From what i’m seeing on social media, the never Trump Democrats against the 702 bill is working to our advantage. Conservatives and Treehousers have been saying this for years. Removing FISA (702) from the , “Toolbox”, is a good thing.
Suddenly CONgress is concerned about the FISA 702 searches they had already exempted themselves from? Hmm..
They wanted to hide behind the Save America Act but President Trump flushed them out by disconnecting the two bills.
I suspect CONgress will reauthorize these searches as soon as it suits them and their donors again, in much the same way that they will remove the filibuster immediately after Republicans deliberately throw the midterms.
These are really devious, sneaky criminals who have gotten away with everything, including election fraud, for many years. They are certainly not stupid, and those who installed them via election fraud are not stupid either.
I can’t imagine (donor or not) why anyone would want their private info stored for someone to abuse. Especially the big money people.
There are outside threats to our nation – the logic behind FISA.
There are worse threats inside our nation – the logic against FISA.
The most important battle we face right now is, as Justice Thomas put it in his recent speech in Texas, against leftists and their administrative state warriors, who are inside the walls themselves and whose aim is communist revolution.
Ask the right questions and follow the $
What is the answer for how to capture/track (surveillance) the foreign entity engaged electronically with a citizen?
Once you have the info- how do you “unsee” it?
Is it simply a “proper” and distinct authority, or is there no way to separate the two and still conduct “necessary” and appropriate intelligence?
The FISA court legitimizes warrantless surveillance of an American citizen. Its demise would not stop incidental surveillance if it were only in the immediate context of surveillance of a foreign actor.
NSA existed long before 9/11 and has been collecting all data in the world for a very long time.
FISA was created after NSA and long before 9/11 as a way to legalize using this NSA data against Americans.
FISA 702 didn’t create, it only expanded and justifies further misuse.
Ending FISA 702 will not end what it didn’t create. Slow it down? Maybe.
Frankly, as long as agencies are willing to keep things secret from Presidents, Congress and Judges, nothing will ever succeed in protecting our rights. And as it is, all three collude to deny us our rights even when the agencies don’t keep it secret.
For instance, lets make a law that requires notification of American citizens within 1 year after their data was accessed. And that courts can order complete divulgement of what was learned, who accessed it and how it was used. That would be very useful in protecting from illegal search and in revealing the political targeting.
What good is any of that if the FBI can hide that information beyond the reach of all?
notification of American citizens within 1 year
So, on the 364th day since the search, the American is notified. What now?
What recourse does the American have about the event and the use of the data?
I think that is a little too late….the horse is out of the barn and the consequences are already realized, nullifying the 4th Amendment.
A possible case of: oops, our bad…so sorry!
Corruption indeed.
It’s actually more opposite. Yes, the NSA has existed since 1952. But they were not capable of or engaged in massive collecting of data until after 911.
FISA has been around since 1978. So it’s not specifically a FISA issue either, except that foreign intelligence data has always fallen under FISA. So when they expanded collection after 911 in the name of foreign intelligence, we end up basically where we are today.
NSA has claimed they can’t possibly filter the data at the source. The root of this claim is that they plug collectors into the major internet/telecom backbones. It’s kind of like drinking from a fire hose given the volume of data. So the claim has some truth to it but today there’s a lot more that could be done to filter at the source than there was in 2001. But they also use the fact that US citizens engage with foreign actors so you “need it all.” That one is harder to shoot down.
I don’t see this toothpaste (the collection) going back in the tube at this point.
It would be entirely possible in my estimation to fully audit and control all internal searches and have some sort of non-partisan review process, with actual legal penalties instead of FISA keeping it all in the FISA family and issuing their slap on the wrist “penalties” when audits show abuse.
If you’ve ever done DoD (DoW now) work, for example, you know that it’s nearly impossible to move any data you’re not allowed to move from point A to point B without triggers being activated. Same for trying to view data you don’t have clearance for. If you’ve ever worked for large financial entities and, to some extent, even health care entities with HIPAA protected data, same sort of deal. With FISA they’ve actually made laughable claims that tight auditing is not possible (at least in the past).
If there was a way to make sure members of Congress, and their family and staff, are explicitly NOT exempt from the legislation that reauthorizes the FISCA(702) part, that might be a way to finally end it and clean up all the problems the entire Patriot Act created when the federal government took power the Constitution was never intended to to give it.
Why stop there? Let’s make it so Congress shall not exempt themselves, family, staff or government employees from ANY legislation. Remember the carve out they gave themselves with Obamacare? That would fix a lot of problems. It would take an amendment to do it though.
And the vax exemption.
Get rid of the Freedom Act (formerly Patriot Act) altogether. I have yet to hear anyone defend it and show that it has kept us safe.
Why Are they exempt from so many legislative acts that THEY promote upon the people? Is that even logical?
People need to stop pretending that FISA-702 is going anywhere. Like it or not, as long as there is a federal government there will always be a “national security” reason to keep it.
Does this mean you think the government’s “need” outweighs the rights of We the People?
This nation was founded on the answer to that question: A RESOUNDING “NO!”
We have a righteous heritage that our individual liberties are granted by GOD, not another human and most certainly not a government.
I have considered FISA 702 an appalling breach of the 4th Amendment ever since its exception. It’s really the contemporary version of a Star Chamber and utterly repugnant (no matter how convenient or “necessary”).
FISA/702 is “unconstitutional on its face.” An explicit violation of the 4th Amendment, and simple proof of why that Amendment is there. Our Founders were worldly and wise.
It masquerades at “legality” by proposing a “court.” But the accused isn’t present, isn’t represented, and doesn’t even know that anything is happening. The “judge” can do no more than rubber stamp, because there is no “other side.” Every now and then, they become angry because they’ve been lied to – but what can(!) they expect?
The databases are irresistible, because they are there. The ultimate voyeur. Right down to geo-location. If someone wants to know which room in your house is your bedroom, they can find out. Anonymously. How many trillions of dollars a year does the government spend on “mass storage devices?” 🤔
I’m having an Indiana Jones moment. Who goes through that data? “Top … Men.” 🤡
If you take a million points of data, and then selectively interpret portions of that data, you can come up with anything you want.
That selective viewpoint can diverge wildly from the accurate full picture of a person.
The selective application of government surveillance, against a target, ought to be outlawed because what we really see is the prosecutions mindset rather than the targets.
“We deemed the man’s conduct criminal, say the criminals.”
“Give me the man, and I’ll give you the crime.”
I’d love to see the search terms made public, that might change a lot of minds.
If it is going to exist, it needs to exist in transparency and away from DC. Put oversight in the hands of the most liberty loving group you can think of, give them a bullhorn and locate them in Podunk Texas. Otherwise nuke it.
“My personal opinion is that most of the legislature, both parties, don’t have any honest understanding of how FISA (702) is used, has been used…”
Ain’t that the truth, I think it sums up pretty much everything. Our book of laws is too large, too many special interests doing smoke shows to get their solution codified. It’s all about money, protectionism or as my great co-worker says: Friends, Feelings and Empires guide all decision making in what he coined the trinity of management.
People that can have a deep understanding of the nuance do other things to make a living. The congressional staff hire minions, those minions network with people not knowing they have ulterior motives and get an agenda and position — the rep most likely knows nothing, is not an expert on anything other than socializing, smiling for cameras, be grinding donors (again people with an ulterior motive).
Those that do buck the system get ostracized.
seems like the republicans had a pretty good understanding of how FISA was being used when it targeted them. I recall recently that the GOP senate passed some bill that gave them hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars if the “government” spied on them…….
Good for thee but not for me?
Same type of problem in state legislatures. Making laws just to make laws. If not outright communism then tyranny of the “do gooder”. Which ends up being the same thing in the end.
Make every instance of a search, public. They can still get the info, but the ‘who’ and the ‘why’ is in the public record. (Not necessarily the ‘what’ was found.) Either the search can be justified, or it won’t stand up to scrutiny by the public.
I’d change it to every instance of a search of a US Citizen public.
Ban all contractors from access to Data bases. Woods files must be thorough and reviewed by entire court.
just because Trump supports a reauthorization doesn’t mean we should. He gets lotsa advise from many people and many of those people have very bad intentions with their advise.
If it takes a bunch of roadapple republicans to stop this, it’s fine with me. FISA or no FISA, the domestic spying continues full-speed. I hope folks get that.
One of the saddest things about this is the msm’s total failure in bringing this truthfully to the public. Every day, every newscast, local & national.
But I dream…
” While this effort at reauthorization may have failed, it’s not really a bad thing and more time for lawmakers to get educated on the core issue is always a good thing.”
It would be swell to have BOTH the House and Senate attend a mandatory? lecture by a citizen authority on the core issues surrounding FISA 702. For that, I nominate Sundance as that citizen authority. The lecture(s) could be presented without his actual presence to protect his identity.
Seems that the pretending reality of domestic abuse of the FISA courts has come home to roost.
The non pretending reality that FISA(702)(etc) can reach into fraud and unethical activities of elected, appointed, civil service employees(staff and representation) and etc within the federal and state seats of governance.
Has finally drop the mike on these plastic people’s pretending game not to know the scope of FISA(702) abuse.
Not because of the abuse has finally revealed what is at stake to us plebs leading lives under a FISA microscope.
(sarcasm)Yah, folks I wake up every morning worried the govt is going to drag me into court over my midnight emails and phone calls.
Sure if I was doing something doggy maybe IRS would come knocking.
So, the mic drop is now more about how can the pretend game be maintained in light of the pretending can no longer maintain a straight face.
In keeping things focused, Senator Schiff is a Senator with that very unique distinction of being shown as a emperor without clothes.
The Senate can not ignore his ethical conduct and at the same time pretend that the DOJ is not moving forward on a criminal and civil referral that reveals conduct that began in his Congressional Office.
That is why the FISA(702) is now up in the air because someone came in and turned the lights on when FISA(702) crosses the Potomac into Legislative Pretend Land.
“Some-bo-dy’s wat-ching me!” 🎶
That songwriter had NO idea …!
I prefer for my government to spy on me the old fashioned way, with shoe leather, camouflage, tape recorders, and binoculars. It’s at least more sporting and human that way.
This automated E-surveillance monster all started to take off long before 9/11, back when the Internet took hold in the early 1990s, and even long before that, with the huge ATT central switching monoliths mass wiretapping all the copper signals in the 1960s.
The 2001 Reichstag Fire just supercharged it and set it to autopilot. Now they don’t even have to work to see what I’m typing here.
Chck
“The only way the government can justify the capture of U.S. Citizen data is if there is some quasi-constitutional or national security reason for it.”
I fail to find within the US Constitution a “national security reason” to violate any of the Bill of Rights amendments.
My first thought was that Ellison would be out of a job if 702 was forbidden by law at the Federal level. I don’t see our CONgress critters being as powerful as that man is. I would love to see him fall from grace however. It seems that if the databases only contained information on foreign threats/actors, it would be much smaller than it currently is, and no need for the massive data centers holding all our personal “papers”.
And then, moving forward, it would be glorious if it were illegal for ANY COMPANY to scoop up and retain “metadata” or any data on Americans. Who needs 702 if you can just hoover up every Americans’ keystrokes, preferences, and transactions? We have zero privacy at this time. The data is already out there. 702 just makes it more convenient for the government to access all of it.
Full steam ahead with the data centers. If we don’t wrestle this now, we are screwed.