FISC Releases Previously Classified Judge Collyer Order – What Other FISA Cases Was Kevin Clinesmith Involved In?…

The DOJ-NatSec Division and FBI reported issues of fraud upon the FISA court in October and November prior to the IG FISA report release.  Specifically the DOJ notified the FISC that OGC Kevin Clinesmith had manipulated and falsified evidence. On December 5th, Judge Coller responded to that series of notifications with an order.

On December 9th, when the IG FISA report was made public, the FISC was given a declassified version of the report and was able to review for the first time. It was from that IG review that Collyer was able to establish the full context of the fraud upon the court. The court was given no advanced notification as to the totality of fraud upon the FISC other than a preliminary ‘head’s up’ on the OGC Clinesmith compromise.

As a result of the IG report, Collyer told the DOJ to declassify her response of December 5th, because she was going to make it public. Today Collyer released that order.

  (Source Link)

Judge Collyer has three questions/orders and instructs the DOJ: (1) to inform the court of what previous FISA applications Kevin Clinesmith was involved in; (2) inform the court what steps have been taken to review the potential of those applications to also contain fraudulent information; and (3) inform the court what the hell they did to punish this gross behavior from the FBI Office of Legal Counsel.

Keep in mind Judge Collyer wrote this order (Dec 5th) prior to her seeing the full unredacted IG report on FISA abuse (Dec 9th)…. so it’s likely there will be more to come as an outcome of this mess.

HPSCI Ranking Member Devin Nunes wants to see the FISA court shut down.  I concur.

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400 Responses to FISC Releases Previously Classified Judge Collyer Order – What Other FISA Cases Was Kevin Clinesmith Involved In?…

  1. Beau Geste says:

    The fact that this Order was ever classified “top secret” is appalling. If this is an example of all the other withheld records being kept from the public and free press (including Judicial Watch), it is a fraud on the public.

    If the russians efer found out about anything in this Order, the entire security of our way of civilization would be immediately jeopardized, global warming would increase, and the ecomomy would crash to zero /s

    There needs to be some career penalty for fake redaction, to keep the public from knowing about government skullduggery.

    Liked by 24 people

    • Beau Geste says:

      or even “secret” (sorry…I’m really pissed. I’ve tried/managed cases before crooked judges, and it really, really pisses me off….)

      calm down beau…

      Liked by 13 people

      • The Demon Slick says:

        GP is reporting that Collyer is stepping down and that dirtbag Roberts is replacing her with an Obama judge, which of course Roberts says don’t exist.

        Liked by 5 people

      • 4gypsybreeze says:

        Beau…..go back and read all the articles that Sundance has written about Judge Collyer. She is the one of the first on the FISA court who first brought this to our attention.

        Right now….I would say that she one ROYALLY peeved Judge. And I would wager that is why she publicly insisted that her memo—the one you just read—would be unclassified.

        And she has a right to be peeved to the extreme. She had a young upstart lawyer that had the audacity to falsify records which were then presented to her. Whoa…that is NOT a very intelligent thing for any lawyer to do.

        Then she had the FBI/DOJ who brought documents to her that they knew were false….that is just more fire to her flaming peeve……!

        And the part where she says….bar association….whoa boy…that says a lot! For someone like Clinsemith who is young, probably paying those school loans, pride and joy of the family…blah…blah….to have Judge Collyer publicly say to bar association in a back hand way…..take away his license…..DEVASTATING.

        Looks like she cancelled his Christmas. Picture a Judge Judy or Judge Jeanine…..just not as well known…!

        Liked by 5 people

      • X XYZ says:

        What? There are crooked judges??? There is gambling going on in Casablanca?!?

        Liked by 1 person

    • Ironclaw says:

      Career penalty? Fake redaction should end with several years in prison, then you wouldn’t see people doing it.

      Liked by 18 people

    • Ironclaw says:

      Career penalty? Fake redaction should end with several years in prison, then you wouldn’t see people doing it.

      Liked by 1 person

      • swamph8er says:

        It would be several years in prison until you look at the intent and conspiracy with others to target a political opponent and eventually overthrow the POTUS. Then it’s life in prison or the death penalty.

        Liked by 2 people

      • ms doodlebug says:

        So this is when Durham’s inquiry became a criminal investigation. Who are the “limited number of personnel at the FBI” that knew of Page’s relationship but did not disclose it to the Court? According to Horowitz ‘everyone who touched this’? Would that not go all the way up the chain to Comey?

        Liked by 1 person

    • mike says:

      Rosemary should order **all** signatories to the fraudulent applications to appear in her FISA court and then order their indefinite detention until all trials resolve.

      Otherwise you’re just running a Stasi court against all US citizen Rosemary. Either those FISA applications have protections and **severe, enforced** penalties, or we need to be an armed and angry citizenry against tyranny.

      Liked by 17 people

      • Beau Geste says:

        Amen, Mike

        (maybe her excuse is she is too sick, and one of them might have the flu, so she doesn’t want them in her courtroom? makes as much sense as refusing to withdraw the purloined ill-gotten FISAs )

        Liked by 3 people

        • ms doodlebug says:

          Isn’t that closing the gate after the pigs got out? Obviously not a legal beagle, but it seems that all actions taken from the time the FBI knew the Steele/Hillary propaganda piece was worthless plus Clinesmith’s lie to the FISC invalidates everything thereafter including Mueller’s investigation.

          Liked by 1 person

      • islandpalmtrees says:

        Let’s have a nice little token, say the date upon which all Carter Page FISA applications were signed. to include the renewals.

        And, lets have the first FISA application on Mr. Trump that was turn down. 1 in 10,000 I believe.

        Liked by 2 people

    • johnnybiface says:

      FBI Christopher deserves Jail time for obstructing justice and crimes against this United States. He stood int he way of truth and justice. Does he have deep state immunity? He shouldn’t. Wray is a scoundrel who betrayed this country. He needs to be frog marched to jail with the other Deep State seditionists, Comey, Brennan, McCabe, Strok, et.al. Traitors to Law, Justice, and the Rule of Law and all decent Americans.

      Liked by 5 people

      • Dutchman says:

        I concur with Sundance, and Devin Nunes, the FISA court needs to be SHUT DOWN.
        AG Barr, however thinks thats extreme, and he and his good buddy Chris,wray have some innovative solutions, a little ‘tweeking’to the process, that SHOULD resolve everyones concerns.

        Firstly, the “bad actors” are,…..MOSTLY gone, or transferred. Secondly, instead of FOUR different teams, rubberstamping,…er I mean VETTING the applications,…there will be SIX!

        AND, of coarse theycwill ALL go through the MANDATORY 3 hour ethics training class; NO EXCEPTIONS.

        See, Barr is an HONORABLE man,….
        Just like Mueller.

        Liked by 4 people

        • I’m affraid Dutchman has been right about Barr all along.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Dutchman says:

            I take no joy in it. Would LOVE to eat fred (crow near my house) and WOULD take joy, watching Barr/Durham indict and perp walk the micreants, wath the small group flip on the larger group of POWERFUL Dc interests, and see the whole bunch HUNG!

            For the reasons I have posted in previous comments, I simply don’t see THAT happening.

            Doesn’t mean the swamp won’t get drained, doesn’t mean this will resolve in such a way that it NEVER happens again, doesn’t mean PDJT won’t prevail, and us with him.

            Liked by 1 person

      • Janie M. says:

        johnnybiface, I’m hoping President Trump fires Wray in 2020.

        Liked by 2 people

    • destin326 says:

      Business as usual until VSGPOTUS.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Raven78 says:

      I agree with Devin Nunes too, this b.s. line they always give us why they can’t show us the entire criminal act they perpetrate against the people is b.s. “Due to National Security Reasons”. They can’t show us that and have to redact the crapola out of something. Yrt, anyone else notice they never think the crimes they are committing against its own citizen’s is a National Security Risk.

      If you ask me the entire government apparatus is a National Security Risk.

      Liked by 5 people

    • sharon says:

      The only thing that is going on here is the Dept of State and the FBI along with the DOJ are trying to cover their rears by pretending that they had nothing to do with this garbage it was just one person who has run amuck. Anyone who believes this has something wrong with their brain matter meaning they have none. I would not trust State, the FBI and the DOJ as far as I could throw them and I certainly would not cooperate with any of the 3 no matter what they said was the reason I should. These two departments and the FBI should be entirely disbanded and start all over. Get rid of everyone and then begin again with a through background check on all of them who apply.

      Liked by 2 people

  2. TPW says:

    Wouldn’t everyone think that because false info was turned into with fisa appt. that everything connected with it would be thrown out.

    Liked by 10 people

    • California Joe says:

      That rule only applies to minorities that are arrested.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Beau Geste says:

      Absolutely !!!! That is what is so angering, and telling, about the complicit FISC refusal to withdraw the ill-gotten FISA Warrant that protects the FBI/DOJ liars and spy-ers from liability for previous illegal spying. An honest court would promptly withdraw a tainted Order as improvidently granted, nunc pro tunc .(then as now) so it has no protective or other consequence.
      That the FISC, whose ONLY purpose and duty is to protect civil rights of unrepresented defendants in a secret court, from improper DOJ/FBI behavior, is an astounding violation of their responsibility. It is proof that the FISC system is broken, and that the FISC does not accept tits responsibility to protect, rather than deny, civil rights. 18 USC 242 applies to judges, as well as FBI and DOJ personnel who willfully deny civil rights.

      Liked by 9 people

      • Beau Geste says:

        Now as then – time to stop, or at least proofread..

        Liked by 5 people

      • Coast says:

        “the FISC system is broken”
        No, the system is not broken….the system is unconstitutional. That’s not broken, rather that’s illegal. This FISC concept should have never seen the light of day. Nothing more unamerican than a secret court (or Pelosi).

        Liked by 4 people

      • rcogburn says:

        Powerful and worth repeating:

        “That the FISC, whose ONLY purpose and duty is to protect civil rights of unrepresented defendants in a secret court is an astounding violation of their responsibility. It is proof that the FISC system is broken, and that the FISC does not accept tits responsibility to protect, rather than deny, civil rights.”

        Liked by 4 people

        • glissmeister says:

          Well, the problem then is not FISC. The problem is the DC Bar and their law school cohorts, and silence and inaction of the greater community of lawyers. The crises is very real, pernicious and has done profound and lasting damage that is just beginning to become apparent to all.

          Mueller’s entire career presents an instructive clinic in pernicious wrongdoing and professional depravity.

          Go see the new Clint Eastwood movie about Richard Jewell. It’s all on display.

          Liked by 4 people

          • rcogburn says:

            How do you protect an instrument like FISC from the corruption and abuse of the people given control over it? That I don’t know. It’s the old cliche about power corrupting and absolute power corrupting absolutely. A Title 1 FISA, readily obtainable with fabricated evidence, zero due process, a complicit court, and full secrecy, is about as close to an absolute power as you can get in a democracy.

            Richard Jewell is a GREAT movie everyone should see. Like watching sociopaths out to destroy an innocent man, which I suspect many of these people (like Strozk) actually are. Story of dignity and courage so relevant to the times we are living in.

            “They’re still the US government.”

            “No, they aren’t the US government. They’re just three pricks who work for the US government. Understand the difference?Nobody in that room is a better man than you, Richard.”

            Liked by 2 people

            • grumpyqs says:

              I wish we could apply these fine arguments to the “instruments” of Congress and the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court DOES have life terms, which has lately become obviously outrageous. Congress, as they continually doctor up the power of incumbents, are approaching life-time seats. Congress and Supreme Court needs Term Limits; just like the Executive.

              Liked by 3 people

      • sharon says:

        Time to put the responsibility where it belongs at the head of the Supreme Court. His is the responsibility and his is the duty to check out this information instead of rubber stamping garbage like this. This is why there should not be FISA warrants, there is no responsibility and no liability for floating false info to get one. This is not the American way of Justice. It should never have been approved and now that this has been shown just how fallible this corrupt system is, it should be gotten rid of permanently and immediately

        Liked by 3 people

    • Susan Bolle says:

      Yes, one would think so, however her final statement indicates that the one who is responsible for this should be referred for ”possible” disciplinary action. “Possible” means the individual could be held accountable for wrong doing but ”possible” also could mean a talking to by the boss or slap on the wrist.
      Didn’t the judge in Flynn’s case decide to sentence him because there was no evidence of FBI abuse? What say he now?

      Liked by 1 person

      • 4gypsybreeze says:

        Don’t see him not getting dis barred. He forged document which was put in front of Judge Collyer. That…..is a big BIG no no!

        She is peeved. And rightfully so. Look her up and the articles that Sundance has written about her in the search box.

        That possible disciplinary action…oh yeah…..he won’t have his license…I would wager on it…..never-ever a good idea to tick off a Judge. And the bar association knows that.

        Liked by 1 person

      • William H Gilkerson says:

        He says he is going to sentence him next month. Next case.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Dutchman says:

      So, the FISA warrants were for Crossfire Hurricane, a counter intel investigation. The info obtained, was rolled into the Mueller investigation, which prosecuted Gen. Flynn, PapaD, that Russian girl, Manafort, Cohen, etc.

      Svhouldn’t those cases be reviewed, for parralel construction, and fruit of the poisonous orchard?

      Liked by 8 people

  3. California Joe says:

    Kabuki Theater! The judge knows that Klinesmith only doctored or withheld evidence in matters relating to President Trump!

    Liked by 5 people

  4. Fools Gold says:

    Put another way, I say Yank FISA court out by its roots!

    Liked by 6 people

    • Jederman says:

      Don’t use the fisa court as a throwaway so the public now thinks it’s safe from the DS. The ENTIRE surveillance/patriot act system needs serious review.

      Liked by 4 people

      • Fools Gold says:

        Did it prevent 9/11?

        Liked by 3 people

      • Dutchman says:

        “So, if it all goes South, we’ll wrap it around Pamela Landys neck, shut it down,….and start all over,again!”

        Liked by 1 person

      • Publius Syrus says:

        If you wanted to construct a mechanism for secret political abuse of weaponized natsec, the first step is FISC. Its institutionalized denial of due process, unconstitutional by construct and we the sheeple have been expected to “trust” the DOJ and FBI to honor the rules….

        Well, no more.
        This really calls into question the fundamental integrity of ALL federal law enforcement, and the priority over the states rights…

        “Trust us, we are here from the Feds”…
        Ask General Flynn how that worked out, or POTUS…

        Liked by 3 people

  5. Jim in TN says:

    FISC is inherently flawed. There can be no adversarial challenge to any warrant. Worse, the court can’t hold anyone responsible for abuses against us or the court. It can’t even find out for itself that it is being abused.

    There are all sorts of rules and procedures to follow that are supposed to prevent and fix such abuses. But making the abuser follow new rules when he doesn’t follow the old rules is sheer idiocy. And telling the abuser to certify that he is not abusing you is like hiring a fox to guard your chickens.

    Assigning an advocate or ombudsman to represent the targets will fail. Such positions always go on to favor the hand that feeds them.

    Having major court reviews will just serve to help the government cross tees and dot i’s. But it won’t catch even brazen lies. Just self contradictory lies.

    Giving a secret court power to try miscreants using secret information will end up violating so many Constitutional rights it is sick. Nobody should be hauled away to a secret jail in the dead of night. Even if the miscreants are Comey, McCabe, Yates, Boente and Rosenstein, or Strzok Page and Clinesmith.

    And unless everything is declassified, you can’t try the miscreants in regular court.

    A FISC is simply license to commit abuse. And the fiction that the DOJ and FBI are honorable and won’t commit abuses has been exposed as the malicious fraud it is. We need protection from those people more than we need protection from terrorists.

    But will we be able to accept the risk of killing the FISC?

    Liked by 7 people

    • Jim in TN says:

      One more thing. The FISC is obviously not protecting us from abuses, just helping to coverup and whitewash them. I am no longer sure which was the true intent of creating the FISC.

      Liked by 8 people

      • fanbeav says:

        But But….terrorists!

        Liked by 2 people

      • cboldt says:

        The intent was to shamwow the public that privacy was being protected by judges, and bad guys were really going to get it now.
        It also has the effect of providing statutory defense to felony violations of 4th amendment. The Page warrant produces a statutory defense to criminal prosecution.
        The practical effect of the law is as you say. It enables and hides unjustified privacy violations.
        Repeal FISA, destroy the records. No judges lose their job, just their part-time sideline.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Beau Geste says:

          That is why the crooked, ill-begotten FISA must be withdrawn.

          That is why the crooked FISC refuses to withdraw its fake FISA, as any honest federal judge would do immediately. The FISC is complicit in protecting the swamp, instead of protecting the civil rights of unrepresented US Citizens as required by their very formation.

          It is the cops helping the bank robbers. The firefighters spraying gasoline on the burning hospital.

          Liked by 2 people

        • X XYZ says:

          No judges lose their job, just their part-time sideline.

          “Sideline”. That’s probably the DC polite and legal term to describe a “no show” job.

          Let’s petition Roberts to appoint Michelle OBammy to be the next FISA judge.

          Liked by 1 person

    • trialbytruth says:

      Can we survive not blowing it up.?

      My guess was s based on the sheer volume of warrants most are to gather background. That’s what shoe leather is for. Got a ticking time bomb whoever is POTUS can make the call he is accountable to us. Need a warrant do it the right way enough of the streamlining of declination of liberty.

      Liked by 2 people

    • rcogburn says:

      “But will we be able to accept the risk of killing the FISC?”

      Whatever the risk, it pales in comparison to the certainty of past, present, and future damage the FISC poses. We have a secret court that became a corrupted instrument of such incredible power, it was instrumental in a failed coup d’etat against a sitting US President.

      Shut it down.

      Liked by 4 people

    • guest4ever says:

      But will we be able to accept the risk of killing the FISC? Yes!

      Liked by 2 people

  6. AlwaysRight says:

    Joe,
    Agreed, but doesn’t this action lead you to believe that the judge suspects there are other actions in addition to surveying Carter Page? It does me. Rudy, VP Pence, Trump family members….

    Liked by 2 people

  7. John-Y128 says:

    Well, well they got their fall guy… Kevin Clinesmith, I smell another Arkancide coming.

    Liked by 8 people

  8. TarsTarkas says:

    Another thing to remember: Since Collyer is retiring she can now afford to be honest and forthright about all the abuses. How many otherwise honest people are working with their heads down because the amoral corruptocrats have been in charge.

    Liked by 2 people

    • ms doodlebug says:

      She’s had her head down for a long time. Adm Rogers and Nunes both informed her of the problem long before it became ‘very’ public with the Horowitz report and testimony. It’s hard to believe ‘anyone’ connected to the FISC didn’t know what the FBI was doing.

      Liked by 1 person

  9. oldersoul says:

    That is a very compartmentalized order, effectively fire-walling DOJ past this one bad lawyer.

    Unless this one lawyer was the only DOJ/FBI involved in all FISA matters, this Order amounts to swatting one fly off a dung heap.

    And we know he was not the only staff lawyer handling FISA matters.

    Liked by 5 people

  10. David DeAtkine says:

    and today we find out Collyer is retiring…for “health reasons”….

    Liked by 4 people

  11. fanbeav says:

    What do the IG’s in the DOJ and FBI look at? Do they wait for someone to tell them what to look at? I mean there are 400 IG’s under Horowitz. Aren’t they supposed to be like auditors looking for bad stuff?

    Liked by 2 people

    • Dutchman says:

      Exactly,
      Actually I believe HOROWITZ is the I.G., those working under his direction are ‘investigators’ and most of them are, in fact ‘auditors’; they work with #’s, rules/regs, policy/procedures, and well,…PAPER. Another section of his,staff are shoe leather investigators, LE types, who do interviews, etc.

      But, when he finds indications of a crime, he refers that to DOJ, cause while he LOOKS for fraud, waste and abuse, if he finds criminality, he turns over to AG.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Publius Syrus says:

        Unfortunately, I have to agree.

        Heard a lot of horse pucky about Mueller and his Marine honor, and W hite ccollar crime expertise, and Horowitz and his honor, and Rosenztein and Huber, and blah, blah, blah…hope fors…

        I hope for Barr and Durham too.

        Hold out your hands and fill one with “hopes” and the other with horse manure and tell me which fills fastest…

        Liked by 2 people

        • X XYZ says:

          Ohh, that is so negative, so cynical! Shame on you! And mentioning horse manure is SOOO offensive! You must be one of those mean, heartless conservatives!

          The forerunner, our hero, Bill Clinton, was “The Man from Hope”. Our messiah, Obama, who followed, and radically transformed America into an Obamanation gave us the land of “hopes and dreams”. America could return to that if we could only rid ourselves of that Bad Orange Man and his followers! Anyone who doesn’t believe in hope should be sent to re-education camp – or at least to sensitivity seminars.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Publius Syrus says:

            LOL. “I’m offended” was AG Holders dog whistle then and every special snowflakes trembling trigglypuff trigger since. Obamas Legacy, all the racial healing. See Clyburn, et al.

            Liked by 1 person

        • Dutchman says:

          Yup. I trust God, I trust PDJT, and I trust my wife.
          Everyone else,…take a step back.

          Liked by 2 people

  12. rcogburn says:

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Harvey Lipschitz says:

    Kevin Clinesmith is dirty? Waaaa

    How many other dirty judges does Roberts over see?

    Since these sham courts have NOBODY protecting the accused, Nobody listed to the warnings, Should Pelossie use her gavel and rap Roberts on the knuckles?

    Liked by 1 person

  14. CNN_sucks says:

    What is the punishment? Early retirement with full pension? Another cushy fara gig or lawfare job with Cadillac healthcare? We want prison time not retirement and spew their hatred with PDJT.

    Liked by 4 people

  15. Bubby says:

    I wonder if any posters here were surveilled or perhaps Sundance himself? Can a lawsuit be brought by those illegally spied upon? If so how and what Court? I’m not worried I don’t know or have anything worth surveilling.

    Liked by 3 people

    • The Demon Slick says:

      If you have a cell phone you’re caught in the net.

      Liked by 4 people

    • Chewbarkah says:

      Until all 63,000 have been analyzed, along with the complete roster of prior years back to at least 2007, we’re not close to done even with fact-gathering. Who was targeted? Who was targeting? Why? What were the results? Was each case a matter of actual law enforcement or political espionage? Etc.
      Next — microanalyze every bit of info collected under the Page warrants. Not just matters the OIG decided were related to Russian Collusion. That deliberately excludes the domestic political surveillance the warrant was designed to facilitate. Only someone like Tom Fitton can be trusted to manage the investigation.

      Liked by 3 people

    • 4gypsybreeze says:

      And thanks to Sundance….fellow treepers have known this for over a year. I think all of those who have recently grabbed a limb.. have a LOT of reading and catching up to do…and then once they do…spreading the word of what they have learned.

      It would save a lot of eye rolling on my part when I see some comments…..

      I read everything Sundance wrote to find out what was going on. Then….it was almost a year before I made any comment.

      I do believe in the saying that it is better to keep your mouth shut and for people to think you are a fool-than to open your mouth and prove you are.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Bogeyfree says:

      Counting weekends that is 295 searches every day during the 6 months.

      Liked by 1 person

  16. ristvan says:

    Agree with Nunes and Sundance. I see no way that FISA in its present form can insure no future abuse.
    Spying on a presidential candidate/president is unconscionable. But there is too much at stake to prevent some future FBI ‘insurance policy’ from arising in the DC swamp. Now the swamp even has a workable roadmap.

    Rather than do away with it altogether, I think basic structural reform could make it viable. Three things come to mind,
    1. A new severe criminal penalty way beyond 18USC1018 for messing it up. Comey gettingbupmto five years just isn’t enough of a deterant.
    2. A requirement that the FIDC judges actually review the underlying warrant materials themselves, rather than rely on FBI Woods procedures and attested verification. After all, judges can do that when granting regular search warrants. Slows things down. Sure, and that’s the point.
    3. A requirement that renewals MUST be based solely on new info gleaned from the first warrant, not merely (as with Spygate) same old same old rehashed.
    4. A requirement that these warrants automatically declassify after some period of time. A sunshine disinfectant provision. And a further provision that any US citizen unjustly spied upon like nothing came up, as with Carter Page) has an automatic cause of action against the FBI miscreants personally, for, say $1 million per screw up.

    Liked by 8 people

    • Bubby says:

      Ristvan what you suggested at a minimum! My younger brother is a Criminal Court County Judge in a large state and a large county and he challenges every request for a warrant when he is on call. Especially if there is a CI involved. He doesn’t rubber stamp any warrants for any any Cop because he knows if he signs a bad warrant it’s his name and his photo on the local TV evening news and in the local news paper when things go sideways! Something these FISA Judges don’t worry about!

      Liked by 3 people

    • The Demon Slick says:

      They’re using foreigners to spy on Americans. They can have a foreign national like you on fb or send you an email or text, then because it’s a foreigner they can use fisa on you. I propose they make it so only foreigners can be spied on ever, if there’s an American on one end make them get a regular warrant with real judges and real evidence.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Beau Geste says:

      Ristvan, without an independent adversarial capability, corruption and collaboration are inevitable in a secret court.
      We already have 18 USC 242 for willful denial of civil rights by judges, FBI and DOJ perps.

      Protecting civil rights is the ONLY duty of the FISC, which we now know they ignore, while cooperating in obvious political spying (thinking hillary would win and their complicit behavior would stay secret rather than be exposed as it now has been).

      The 2-hop rule meeds to be curtailed, except in extreme circumstances, with a subsequent report, in writing, to the FISC of who was spied on, who got the results, and all the results.

      An independent Public Defender Office out of the DOJ, appointed (and fireable) by the President and Counsel for the Office of the President), with authority to crossexamine and subpoena DOJ/FBI witnesses and records, and move to discipline DOJ/FBI misbehavior, is necessary. The PDO (and any dissenting judge of the FISC) would have authority to appeal a Warrant grant to the FISCR court (now only warrant denials are appealable by the DOJ), and petition for cert to the Supremes. The PDO would have authority to report to the Office of the President, the Congress, and the Supreme Court, bad DOJ/FBI and FISC judge behavior, for discipline and/or removal.

      This is necessary because the defendants are not represented, there is an extreme history of lying by the FBI/DOJ, adversary (client-loyal) representation is a necessary and “separation of knowledge and powers” part of our system especilly necessary in a sesret “Star Chamber” court despised by the framers of the Constitution, and the FISC has proven itself unable, complicit, and or incompetent to protect civil rights, even when it knows of gross illegal violations. The secret british Star Chamber is the reason for the 4th Amendment and other Constitutional protections.

      Following up on your automatic declassification, that may be unwise in actual foreign spying circumstances. But the PDO should advise any improperly spied-on US Citizens that they are victims, who can sue for deprivation of civil rights. The 2-hop spy record would be available to Sharon Atkisson-type litigants. There should be personal liability for violation a=or improper spying, not just a government award from the court of claims.

      Liked by 1 person

    • cboldt says:

      Get rid of the statutory defense for unjustified snooping.
      I’d get rid of the law altogehter. The privacy protection it provides is illusory, and the system is complex and expensive. We got along fine until 1978 or whatever without FISA at all. If the government thinks a US citizen is a foreign agent, get a regular warrant – FISA requires snooping un a US person required crime suspicion, so this is not a new statutory hurdle for snooping.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Dutchman says:

      Ristvan,
      We agree to disagree,….again! LOL
      Agree FISC sucks, do not agreevthere is ANY way to fix it.
      Try this mental excercise.
      You are in a room, with the signers of the,Declaration of Independance, writers of the Constitution.

      Describe the Fisc court, and FISA warrant process to them, and try to persude them that ANY modifications could make it acceptable.

      It is, by its fundamental nature, UN Constitutional, and NO amount of tinkering can change that.
      Lipstick,….pig.
      Respectfully as always, and sending prayers for your wife!

      Liked by 1 person

    • willthesuevi says:

      Good remediation suggestions ristvan.

      I am still for trashing the FISC. Even with your suggestions the bad actors will find a workaround within a few months or years and be right back at it.

      If the IC agencies were not so damn power hungry, lazy, and wanting shortcuts they wouldn’t need to circumvent the constitution.

      I do not trust one single SOB in DC except POTUS.

      The only reason God has not destroyed that modern Sodom, is Lot helped God see there was one good man still in town. Impeached, but still in town.

      Liked by 1 person

    • This country surprisingly was able to survive almost 200 years without FISC. Yet in less than 50 years we are teetering on the brink with the FISC being a major contributor. Shut it down completely and start getting back to actually following the Constitution as written.

      Liked by 1 person

  17. TexasDude says:

    Too little, too late.

    She and the court has known of problems long before this.

    Liked by 3 people

  18. mark says:

    Getting rid of FISC is never gonna happen. Better for us to devise a better way.

    Some other entities need to be involved. Executive, Legislative and Judicial. 3 legs of Government.

    FISC Executive, FISC Legislative and FISC Judicial. Hell let’s throw FISC Military in just for an extra layer. The more players there are in the game the more chances for an honest outcome.
    Father in Heaven please give everyone a safe, happy, healthy Christmas and a prosperous New Year. Love me some Treepers 1 and all.

    Like

    • cboldt says:

      — The more players there are in the game the more chances for an honest outcome. —
      ROTFL. And lots of finger pointing, like we have now.

      Like

      • mark says:

        cboldt, had it not been for Admiral Rodgers we wouldn’t be here at all. That was my thought. I see in future posts you and ristvan are discussing the future of the FISC with your thoughts about fixing it.

        I rest my case.

        Like

  19. Curt says:

    The FISC needs to be shut down! The potential and actual abuse has no limits. I fully understand the work they do is critical to our security. Unfortunately, the abuse by our own intelligence three letter agencies cars outweighs the benefit. If we don’t wanna to live in a police state, then we better take action now. The NSA data bases here are far reaching and totally engulfing in what they can surveil. We know that the DOJ allowed civilians with no clearance (Fusion GPS) access to these date bases. They were there only to SPY and collect data on American citizens. Thank God for Admiral Mike Rogers.
    At the time, I thought whistle blower Edward Snowden, was an outright spy. All we get is the leftist news media reporting. I am now having second thoughts………….. What’s the back story here?

    Like

    • Somebody's Gramma says:

      I used to believe Snowden was a hero, but not any more. Snowden, originally CIA, then went to NSA. Blew the whistle on “spying” by the NSA only to cripple the NSA and people died as a result. I think Snowden is a CIA asset and was used to cripple the NSA for whatever reasons. He is and has been protected by some very powerful people. We won’t know the whole story until the government extracts him from Russia or wherever he is hanging out. I think the CIA needs to be scattered to the winds. That’s my belief anyway.

      Liked by 2 people

  20. gymcy81 says:

    If not already reminded,
    what you are seeing coming to light today – is about events about 3 yrs ago …slow…
    and with the dc (panda) obfuscation parade that typically goes on (sadly),
    in all likelihood some facts would not be coming to light at all
    if the outcome of the 2016 election had went according to the (masked marxist / dragon) nefarious plans and insurance policies etc.

    i do not know – but there were clues, way, Way before 2016… (and just enough people saw them, thankfully – but no thanks to the main media.)

    It may take even more people becoming more aware, the next time… (and the next …)

    imho

    Like

  21. Nigella says:

    Funny she “resigned” today to be replaced by another obama appointee

    Liked by 1 person

  22. islandpalmtrees says:

    I want to know more about Carter W Page in Docket Numbers 2016-1182, in the letter. It has an interesting date don’t you think?

    Like

  23. islandpalmtrees says:

    FISC Shut it down, right along with the NSL and NSA database.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Dutchman says:

      Yes, if possible shut down the NSA database,….BUT. Put it in a time capsul, to be opened in,….50-75 years.

      We MUST preserve it, so Historians can go back and see what all the conspirators were saying to each other.

      Like

  24. Phil aka Felipe says:

    “HPSCI Ranking Member Devin Nunes wants to see the FISA court shut down. I concur.”

    I want to see ALL illegal spying on law-abiding American citizens shut down!

    Liked by 2 people

  25. fanbeav says:

    Since democrats and the lying media don’t think President Trump was spied upon, I vote to leave the FISA court in operation until after the 2020 election. I mean they surely wouldn’t care if President Trump turned the tables?

    Like

    • Somebody's Gramma says:

      LOL. LIKE. Hopefully, since the 2016 election, the perpetrators have been monitored all this time, and Durham is just compiling the information and getting all the ducks in a row so Barr can administer the hammer of justice. My pipe dream.

      Like

  26. Phil aka Felipe says:

    That DOJ and FISC is sure tough on department wrong doers.

    Which brings to mind – another year has gone by and I was wondering if Bruce Ohr has yet received this year’s bonus.

    Liked by 2 people

  27. @ChicagoBri says:

    Boasberg: FISA Court Finds Massive Government Violations of the Fourth Amendment
    https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/33659-fisa-court-finds-massive-government-violations-of-the-fourth-amendment

    Liked by 2 people

  28. MACAULAY says:

    Clinesmith is going to get indicted.

    I take that as a given, based on what we know. The possibility that he wouldn’t be indicted—is too terrible to contemplate.

    I want him indicted tomorrow, but it seems that if it is a sure thing, as I believe, every day that goes by with him uncuffed, unindicted—must be grounded in some reason that Barr/Dunham are well satisfied with.

    Perhaps already cooperating and giving up the higher ups; perhaps they are coordinating him with other indictments–whatever–it must be a good thing. (I am clinging to hope.)

    I also hope I live to see Justice. The fact that it has taken so long is an abomination, and I don’t blame people for being suspicious….but I think (hope) Barr/Durham are legit.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. butch cassidy says:

    It’s absolutely amazing what we have found out about our government since Trump became president. Just think what a world of shit we’d be and how much worse it would have gotten if Clinton had won. Trump (and those of us who voted for him) has given us a great gift here.

    Liked by 4 people

  30. DeWalt says:

    Absolutely shut it down and repeal the Patriot act. There was a good reason why the Founders didn’t allow for secret courts. Because it was well known in their time how men and governments act.
    I saw the Fox Barr interview and he did or said nothing to relieve me of my skepticism toward him or any other actor in government. His defense of the FISC as an important tool shows they have learned nothing after the abuse. I am not naive to believe that with or without said court that the government will not continue to abuse it’s citizens. We should never GIVE unelected petty bureaucrats such powers. As Franklin said, ” anyone willing to give up freedom for security, deserves neither”.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Publius Syrus says:

      Unfortunately, I have to agree.

      Heard a lot of horse pucky about Mueller and his Marine honor, and Wray and his white collar crime expertise, and Horowitz and his honor, and Rosenztein and Huber, and blah, blah, blah…hope fors…

      I hope for Barr and Durham too.

      Hold out your hands and fill one with “hopes” and the other with horse manure and tell me which fills fastest…

      Liked by 1 person

  31. MLK says:

    Dollar to donuts, Roberts asked for Collyer’s resignation. The Chief Justice has been Radio Silent but I’m confident there is a great deal going on behind the curtain in preparation for a report (which will be publicly released) and FISA reform in the Spring.

    I expect that Roberts et. al. are going to put the wood to the FBI and DOJ-NSD like no one has ever seen before.

    Like

    • DeWalt says:

      Your talking about the same judge that said ObamaCare was Constitutional.

      Like

      • MLK says:

        Yeah, so? What would you do if you were Roberts? Whatever we think of him, he ain’t a dumb guy. He was in charge of the FISC and it is thoroughly discredited.

        IMO, whatever replaces it will be rebranded under a new name. Just like the Boeing 737 Max will be renamed.

        Believe me, I like Roberts even less than you do — and I don’t have any idea how much you do!

        My point is that it’s too coincidental for my tastes that poor Rosemary Collyer got too sickly to continue as head of FISC. Roberts had to sail her ship in that role, and free up more of her time to get to writing that report on how in the world she and the other judges of the Court were wholesale snookered by the likes of Strzok.

        I’ve mentioned this before — It’s impossible to overstate the damage that man-child idiot has done to the whole lot of them. You really can’t make it up.

        Liked by 1 person

    • willthesuevi says:

      MLK,

      Are we talking about the same Roberts? The guy who twisted himself into a pretzel in order to make sure Obamacare was pronounced legit?

      I am not being contentious but am genuinely curious why you would think John the Usurper would get tough on any of the swamp creatures?

      Like

      • MLK says:

        I can’t how he has any other choice at this point. Put yourself in his position, what would you do?

        Maybe it’s just me, but I’m ever more confident about what’s coming. In no small part because after years I can see the sequencing for putting the puzzle pieces in place.

        Barr projected late spring for Durham to complete his investigation and announce results (indictments). Though I expect him to go first before any FISA renewal/reform/replacement.

        As a reader here you know good and well that any of the FISA warrants related to the 2016 election are merely the tip of the iceberg. The Obama Administration was engaged in widespread political surveillance abuse.

        Like

    • alonzo1956 says:

      Roberts is a part of the problem. Devin Nunes, Admiral Rogers, Bob Goodlatte, Chuck Grassley and a few others informed the court of corruption 2 and in some cases 3 years ago. Justice Roberts is in charge of the FISC, and has done nothing in that time frame to rectify the situation, being fully aware of the issues. If We know about it, He knows about it and so much more that is classified that we aren’t allowed to see. Roberts needs to go and at the least, he should recuse himself from the impeachment trial in the Senate. Roberts is playing us for unknown reasons and he certainly has no honor.

      Liked by 1 person

      • MLK says:

        As my previous comments in this thread and others attest, if I were POTUS Trump I would challenge the articles of impeachment before the Supreme Court.

        I’ve explained previously the efforts that Pelosi is taking to stop him from doing this successfully — which requires that he is able to file after transmittal but before Mitch announces any agreement as to the Senate trial rules.

        The Supreme Court taking the case and ruling the House’s impeachment unconstitutional would be a downpayment toward what the Chief Justice owes the POTUS.

        Liked by 1 person

        • alonzo1956 says:

          If a SCOTUS Justice owes anybody anything, they must step down and resign as they no longer are in a position to be neutral. Roberts has to go or I believe the court will be regarded as tainted by millions of citizens.

          Like

          • Publius Syrus says:

            If he doesnt do as told his kids go to foster homes in Ireland.
            If he steps down Justice Thomas is next senior.
            Think the deep state left wing Dems will go along with that?

            Time for Trump to call for Roberts impeachment.
            That gets him off the hook, and off to a rich white shoe sinecure partner job like Boeis, etc.

            Liked by 1 person

    • Leaving says:

      What do you see that indicates the change is to hold people to account instead of covering up?

      To me, the change could just as easily be to cover up bad actions.

      Like

  32. HickTick says:

    You have it wrong , They have Twisted the Law to protect themselves and have created their own pay plan . If you went down and told 17 lies to get a warrant and they found it out , You would be arrested immediately if not sooner and be put under the jail . But since its FBI its OK no matter how many lives it has ruined .
    These Judges are all in on it , you cant Tell me they didn’t know why the DNC wanted the warrants .They knew very well about the election and what was going on .

    There are so many lawyers they have to invent a Tax Payer Pay check . Look at these Law schools cranking out class after class . The average person has very little work for a lawyer .The FBI has more lawyers than the NFL has players . These judges don’t get a pass

    Liked by 2 people

    • DeWalt says:

      You know the definition of a Judge is a Lawyer to stupid to make it in private practice.

      Liked by 2 people

      • X XYZ says:

        “A judge is a law student who grades his own papers”. – H. L. Mencken.

        And a supreme court justice can justify and rationalize his biases – and absolutely no one can tell him his decision is wrong, or appeal to any higher authority. Talk about absolute power…

        This country is ultimately ruled by a tribunal of nine tribal elders. And you thought this is a democratic republic?

        Liked by 1 person

  33. Sherri Young says:

    Would those docket numbers in Judge Collyer’s order above be unique to the FISC or are they in the DC District numbering system?

    It appears that each application to open or renew gets its own docket number. If those docket numbers are FISC only, that seems like a heck of a lot of spying.

    Liked by 1 person

  34. Cowboy79 says:

    Apparently, the Italians are claiming Joseph Mifsud is likely dead, 80% certainty.
    PappaD says No. “Lil Joey Mifsud is not sleeping with the fishes. More to come.”

    see Sara Carter article: https://saraacarter.com/italian-prosecutors-believe-that-joseph-mifsud-the-man-who-started-russiagate-is-dead

    Like

  35. Blue Moon says:

    This is interesting reading: “Why The NSA And President Bush Got The FISA Court To Reinterpret The Law In Order To Collect Tons Of Data”.
    https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130617/01163623501/why-nsa-president-bush-got-fisa-court-to-reinterpret-law-order-to-collect-tons-data.shtml

    Like

  36. Super Elite Lt. Col. Covfefe999 says:

    My gosh there’s so much happening tonight! Big stuff!

    Like

  37. CanaCon says:

    I tend to think Clinesmith didn’t just decide to make that change on a personal agenda.

    The focus should be on his immediate superior on this investigation and so on up the line. Who told him to do it?

    Like

  38. Beau Geste says:

    We now know from her letter that judge collyer knows how to obtain declassification, especially when there has been illegal behavior.

    Federal Judges have immense power. So, it is damning to know that when forced by Admiral Rogers to admit to 85% illegal spying, likely at the hands of obama administration “contractors” and insiders against Republicans, judge collyer took NO measures to declassify the names of all US citizens illegally unmasked and otherwise spied on, to notify them so they could protect themselves, and file suit for violation of civil rights. Did she collect all the illegal spy results, the identities of all those who illegally spied, all those who received the results of the illegal spying, and what was done with or as a result of the illegal spying? Did she refer these people for investigation and prosecution? Apparently not.

    Instead, judge collyer and other FISC judges have chosen to protect the swamp, rather than protect civil rights of illegally spied-on US Citizens. The cops protecting the robbers.

    This demonstrates the FISC sees itself as a protector of spying, even illegal political spying, instead of being the designated SOLE protector of the Constitutional rights of unrepresented citizens in a Constitutionally-disfavored secret Star Chamber court. This typical co-option of governmental systems is an especially grave problem in the case of a secret court.

    This FISC faithfulness to the spy system, rather than US Citizens, is appalling. The FISC exhibits spy-loyalty, despite the fact that the ONLY reason for the existence of the FISC is protection of US Citizens against illegal spying. This loyal FISC protection of illegal spying is ESPECIALLY repugnant when the FISC protects secret POLITICAL SPYING, without even notifying ANY of those political targets who were deprived of their civil rights, or assisting their civil claims for damages and other appropriate relief.

    The FISC has actually been turned to ill, rather than just becoming incompetent.

    Like

  39. Beau Geste says:

    Is this a possible outcome of the Clinesmith “investigation”? /s

    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE TO THE RUBES WHO BELIEVE ANYTHING THE FBI SAYS:
    ‘We have conducted a thorough investigation of the Clinesmith typographical mistake. We have determined that as a result of malfunctioning autocorrect software on his cellphone. the word “not” was inadvertently added to a CIA notice, as follows:

    The original CIA notice
    Carter page is a CIA agent.

    The malfunctioning autocorrect typo on Mr. Clinesmith’s cellphone inserted NOT in this email, as follows:
    Carter Page is NOT a CIA agent.

    This inadvertent autocorrect software error was reported to the FISC by our 99% honest hardworking FBI Agents, who have also solved this problem in their 500 page investigation of this error.

    There, we have solved this problem. Mr Clinesmith will be given a new cellphone, a raise, and promotion to Chief of FISA Woods Procedures.

    Like

  40. davidberetta says:

    I concur too!

    Furthermore; I want to see ALL the Nations Traitors HANGING from every lamp post, light post, traffic signal OR any other suitable location! WE need to get back to the BASICS!

    THAT punishment is how WE THE PEOPLE deter future criminal behavior! It was effective until Democrats spilled into this Nation. NOW, Democrats have no idea where they were or where they are.

    The same Political Party who introduced SLAVERY and Jim Crow Laws into our history. I have know idea how any rational human being would want to be part of such a disgraceful political party.

    Like

  41. OWTOLUNCH says:

    It was reported that there have been 33,942 FISA warrants issued since inception 33 yrs ago. ONLY 12 have been DENIED.

    Liked by 1 person

  42. Rynn69 says:

    Clinesmith! Look here! We may indict someone! Gee, won’t all you Americans be happy justice is served?

    Meanwhile, back in Realville, the American majority continue to wait for justice to be brought to the key perps who people who orchestrated the sedition – a coup – and violated numerous crimes in the process skate. But…but…LOOK! Clinesmith!

    Like

  43. AustinHoldout says:

    Do the empty boxes in the email recipients’ list indicate additional recipients whose names are redacted?

    Like

  44. shirley49 says:

    I cannot even imagine how much worse this Govt. corruption would have gotten had we not put Trump in office. This Country owes him a lot. The least we can do is to to vote straight Republican in 2020. No sitting home on our butts.

    Like

  45. Except for the last sentence, about detonating FISC, which is serious and correct, the above post very clearly left out the “/sarc” that should be there. Collyer is a very funny bureaucrat (a “bureaucrat” being defined as one who works for the system, not the people the system is supposed to serve); she cannot see how vain is her (and the “bigwigs” she is taking her orders from) hope that we will buy what she is selling. They squeezed real hard, and out popped Clinesmith (sorry, I don’t mean it THAT way — calm down, you kids — I mean they “investigated” — air quotes, much the same as the air guitar — and discovered heinous emailing on the part of some verdammt lawyer (so it wasn’t Comey, OK?, and don’t even say the word “Obama”, we’re good little custodians of the people’s trust, and ours… is the only truth you all need).

    I agree with other commenters, only I would tend to go farther and wider. We haven’t seen such ludicrous authority since MacK Sennett and the Keystone Kops (and THEY were honest comedians).

    Like

  46. jeans2nd says:

    “HPSCI Ranking Member Devin Nunes wants to see the FISA court shut down.”

    And why does Rep Nunes want the FISC shut down? Because the dam FISC bloody well already knew, that’s why.

    Rep Nunes informed the FISC long ago, as did Adm Rogers. Colyer may not have had the names and all the specific details, but she bloomin knew, they all knew.

    Apologies, but not accepting the “she only found out” excuse.
    They are all liars and crooks. Every dam one of them.

    Liked by 1 person

    • M W says:

      Damned right they are. The FISA Court is as dirty as can be. THEY were participaing in the overthrow of the United States Government right along with Obama, Clinton, Brennan, Clapper, Lynch et al.

      Like

  47. Michael Alexander says:

    That is incorrect. Amendments can only be ratified by the states, 38 at last count. See Article V.

    Like

  48. M W says:

    I am pretty sure Collyer, Contreras and Roberts knew that the FISA applications were fraudulent and were complicit in the fraud upon their own Courts; which renders them coup co-conspirators.

    Like

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