NAFTA Round #5 Reaches Impasse on Critical Auto Sector – Canada/Mexico Balk At Rules of Origin…

$64 billion of the current annual trade deficit with Mexico stems from the auto sector alone.

For over a decade auto manufacturers have moved to Mexico in order to import parts from Asia, assemble and install them, and then ship the completed cars into the U.S. through NAFTA without duties (tariffs).

The U.S. auto ancillary business groups (parts suppliers) have been pushed out of competition in the auto sector by this corporate profit strategy.  Thousands of U.S. jobs have been lost in both the plant assembly and the ‘auto-parts’ manufacturing sector.

CTH has called attention to this bastardized supply chain for years.  Foreign auto-parts, made by foreign workers, assembled into U.S. owned manufacturing, and sold as U.S. automobiles. The weird supply chain and assembly process is essentially a multinational corporate scheme (in the auto sector) which exploits one of the loopholes in the 25-year-old NAFTA agreement.

If the assembly plant was on U.S. soil the foreign (mostly Asian) parts would be taxed as imported parts.  However, so long as the assembly is in Mexico (or Canada), the origin of the parts is currently irrelevant, and the finished automobile crosses the border into the U.S. avoiding the taxes using NAFTA.

Keep in mind, the auto manufacturing sector, not just U.S. assembly plants but also European auto-makers, have made capital investments into Mexico, based on this NAFTA loophole as part of their business model. They don’t want this cost/profit plan disrupted.

Along comes U.S. Trade Rep. Robert Lighthizer and U.S. Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross and say: NO MORE.

If you are going to consider it a North American Free Trade Agreement vehicle,  then an established percentage of that vehicle should actually have to come from North America; just as importantly, that percentage should be high.

That’s the basic argument behind the “rules of origin” part of NAFTA. If you are going to call it a “North American vehicle”, then the parts should come from North America.  Makes rational sense, no?

The U.S.A. position is that half of content for ‘American-built’ autos should be produced in the United States; and the regional (NAFTA) vehicle part content requirement should be increased to 85 percent from the current 62.5 percent.

Mexico and Canada do not want rules of origin because they want to use their workers to assemble vehicle parts from other nations and sell into the U.S. as “American Autos”.  They correctly fear that if American cars must actually contain American content, and be assembled by actual Americans, then the American Auto-Manufacturers will move their auto plants to America.

The auto-industry, who have invested tens-of-millions in the current scheme, wants to keep the entire source of origination a hidden secret from the public.  They are not too keen on American consumers finding out that Japanese, Chinese, Indonesian, Korean and Vietnamese parts are actually behind the American badges.

Additionally, the European Auto-Manufacturers who are also building in Mexico and Canada don’t want to lose the NAFTA loophole that lets them assemble outside the U.S. and get their vehicles into the American market.

The current system employs lots of Mexican and Canadian workers who assemble foreign parts into American vehicles that are then sold into the U.S. as “American Cars”.

If “rules of origin” are forced upon them, there’s no incentive -beyond labor- for the U.S. auto corporations to continue making cars in Mexico and/or Canada.  Simultaneously, the vast majority of the assembly is now automated (with human assistance), so the labor costs are currently smaller as a percentage of the overall cost of manufacturing.

Automation and modern efficiencies in human assisted robotics mean the labor cost incentive is not as valuable as it once was for manufacturing.  In the modern auto-era it’s the quest for cheaper parts that is now driving the business model; hence, the “rules of origin” exploitation.

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) – Canada and Mexico will rebuff the United States over its demand for tougher NAFTA automotive content rules, top officials said on Monday as negotiations to renew the treaty bogged down with only a few months to go.

[…]  Canadian and Mexican negotiators will address the U.S. auto demands on Tuesday, the final day of the fifth round of talks to update the North American Free Trade Agreement, chief Mexican negotiator Ken Smith told reporters.

Although the talks are due to wrap up in March 2018 after a seventh and final round, they are deadlocked over a series of hard-line proposals the United States unveiled at the fourth round last month.

“It’s definitely slowed down from the previous round,” said a Canadian source with direct knowledge of the talks. “There has been no progress in the contentious chapters.”

Canadian and Mexican officials have complained repeatedly about what they see as U.S. inflexibility. A spokeswoman for the U.S. Trade Representative declined to comment.

Mexico and Canada fear Trump will follow through on a promise to pull out of NAFTA, causing disruption and economic damage. The Canadian dollar edged lower against its U.S. counterpart on Monday, in part because of concerns about the negotiations. (read more)

This is where we must fight the lobbyists.

You must remain engaged and understanding of the issues within these and other trade disputes.  President Trump is wearing the bullet-proof vest, but you must engage your congressman to let him/her know you support the administration and their objectives in these Trade deals.

Your congressional representative is being lured with millions of millions of dollars from lobbyists who work for the multinational corporations.  They will try to retain their financial position.  YOU must educate yourself and your family on these issues.

Together we must engage and fight.  This is the president we have been waiting for.  Don’t expect he can do this on his own.  Make your voice heard.

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This entry was posted in Big Government, Big Stupid Government, China, Economy, European Union, Mexico, NAFTA, President Trump, Trade Deal, Uncategorized, Union Activity - ALL. Bookmark the permalink.

179 Responses to NAFTA Round #5 Reaches Impasse on Critical Auto Sector – Canada/Mexico Balk At Rules of Origin…

  1. Dan Patterson says:

    To them we are fools.
    We act, and have acted exactly like that. Possibly the small percentage of outliers is growing.
    Grow enough and we take it back.

    Liked by 7 people

    • fleporeblog says:

      You are so right! The following two paragraphs sickened me:

      Canada and Mexico dismiss the idea as unworkable and plan to respond with presentations on how such a move would damage the North American auto industry, people briefed on the talks said.

      A Mexican auto industry representative with knowledge of the talks called the U.S. proposal “insane” on Sunday.

      It is amazing how brazen all these bastards are! The Uniparty, CoC, Canada 🇨🇦, Mexico 🇲🇽 etc. They have absolutely NO DAMN LEVERAGE! Yet when you read these articles, they make it seem as if they hold all the cards.

      I am going to celebrate like I did on Election Day when our President signs the EO starting the six month countdown. There is absolutely nothing they can do or say that can reverse his decision.

      At that point our Wolverines will say that 75% of parts must be made in the USA must come from either Mexico 🇲🇽 or Canada 🇨🇦.

      Liked by 15 people

      • Carrie2 says:

        fsreboreblog, nothing like Mexico and Canada cutting off their noses to spite their face, is there? They have no hold on us but think they can do a snow job on us. You would think by now they would know and understand that no way will they win because we have a Pres. Trump who mentally and economically outruns them at 200 mph while they amble on at 60 mph. However, again stupid showing indeed it cannot be cured except by a very drastic medicine.

        Liked by 7 people

        • eagle931 says:

          To fsreboreblog: You are right about Canada and Mexico cutting off their noses to spite their face, but they are counting on lobbying Congress to do an end-around the president. If you recall, Sundance alluded to the fact that Canada announced it would lobby the US Congress to fight against any NAFTA changes. My concern is that with both Democrats and Establishment Republicans acting as The Opposition, Pres. Trump has his work cut out for him. That is why Sundance’s admonition that we all must pitch in by pestering our representatives is something we must do.

          Like

      • auntiefran413 says:

        wasn’t this resistance to be expected?

        Liked by 1 person

        • Maquis says:

          This brazen? This patheticly disingenuous? Well, we were warned by Sundance of the extremes they will go to in order to protect their corruptdom, but, we are Human, After All, and Bullshit begets Righteous Fury.

          They should have expected that from us.

          🙃

          Like

        • fleporeblog says:

          Yes and it is a good thing because it wakes up even more Americans that have been asleep.

          Like

          • Maquis says:

            Exactly. PDJT doesn’t kill NAFTA, he lets Americans realize it should never have been allowed to live. In the end, the CanMex’s are killing it themselves, unwittingly. Our President amazes me.

            Liked by 1 person

      • Aguila2011 says:

        With all the corruption being exposed from Uranium One to Hollyweird to DNC fixing campaigns to Deep State shenanigans against a duly elected President, how do people not draw a direct line of connection between the very same people who did all that and a deal like NAFTA that screws America and it’s people? And with no DoJ to stand up for Justice for the public, the daily rape continues but all the news goes to certain individuals who have been doing this kind of thing in their back offices their entire careers.

        Our politicians, controlled by special interests (Thanks for explaining Sundance!), are losers and sell-outs and actually crimiinals because they took money and other incentives for doing the dirty deed to all of us. They are the one who should be in bars, along with the NAFTA deal being scrapped entirely.

        I hope it is scrapped, if only to show these clowns, especially the CoC, their time is over.
        “Dear Pres. Trump: Drive the stake clean through their heart! Do it.”

        Liked by 1 person

        • jmclever says:

          @aguila sounds like you have the skeleton for some really great political ads. Most have not connected the dots between Clinton Foundation corruption abd pay for play with the same mindset and goals that “negotiated” NAFTA

          Like

      • StanH says:

        Ross Perot had it exactly right, “that giant sucking sound.” It’s time for Mr. Trump to put a fork in it.

        Liked by 3 people

    • Bud Klatsch says:

      Disassemble NAFTA now!

      Liked by 1 person

    • Thecleaner says:

      Some facts for the low info crew.

      1. Canada and Mexico, as well as its governments and citizens do NOT make cars, import cheap parts from asia, dump vehicles into the US market, or leach of the host.

      2. AMERICAN AUTO COMPANIES DO.

      3. Canadian auto sector workers on average earn roughly $30/hr plus benefits and profit sharing for Honda workers. Far from cheap labour.

      https://ca.indeed.com/cmp/General-Motors/salaries

      4. The main draw for Auto companies to move out of the US is currency valuation, 0perational input costs and taxes, and other regulatory concerns.

      5. If roughly 40% of vehicle parts are currently being purchased BY THE AUTOMAKERS from Asia, it is my best guess that those parts are being manufactured for a fraction of the North American cost.

      6. Forcing those parts to be manufactured in North America would likely add between 20% and 30% to the final purchase price of the vehicle. Sales will fall, workers get laid off.

      7. This is simply a strong arm tactic to force AMERICAN CORPORATIONS to operate in America. A tariff would accomplish the same thing, but is unenforceable under the current construct of NAFTA.

      8. At the end of the day, if assembly moves back to the US, the vehicles made for domestic US consumption will in all likelihhod drastically increase in Asian content, to offset increased cost of assembly. Domestically made parts will be sourced for export in vehicles going to Canada and Mexico.

      The Canadian and Mexican trade reps are simply protecting their citizens. It is the US CORPORATIONS who are raping the American people, just so no ambiguity exists.

      Liked by 1 person

      • chiefworm says:

        I’ve always wondered why making components in the US is so costly. Electronics are mostly automated so labor costs are low. I posit that the weaponization of the EPA with a political/environmental bent is the real culprit. Pare it back to its original charter and once again allow manufacturing jobs to flourish in the US. The 20-30% increase would end up being just a few percent increase offset by jobs and higher wages.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Retired EE says:

          The EPA is a factor as well as other costs. Except for specialized products virtually all of the bare circuit boards are made in China. The board fab houses that used to have the production line have morphed into CAD/CAM operations that prep the artwork and email it to China. The boards are fabricated there and air shipped it back. The chemical processes are too expensive to manage in this country. The cost of disposing of the used chemicals is very high here. This material is hazardous and does need to be processed properly which is costly. I suspect the reputable Chinese companies (and there are some very good ones!) do a good job with this but there are others that dump it in the nearest river. The other cost our companies encounter is the tax and fees imposed by federal and local governments. That really adds to the overhead cost that the off-shore competitors are not exposed to.
          As to the assembly costs, the predominant technology is surface mount components. These are generally fully automated assembly processes. The machines are quite expensive and often have a life of 3 to 5 years. Much of the assembly work is now done by companies specializing in this type of work. The cost of this type of operation is high wherever it is done. The labor is a factor but it is generally more specialized. It is likely that the major differences will be in the taxes and fees. So again we in the US are at a disadvantage there again.

          Like

          • Glenn Stehle says:

            Better to keep all that nasty industrial production in other nations and import manufactured products. Let them do all that dirty stuff, and we can all be school teachers, doctors, bankers, lawyers and artists. It’s NIMBY all the way for the environmentalists.

            Like

            • G. Combs says:

              Actually so we can be burger flippers and sales clerks and bank tellers. OOPS, those are mostly Illegal Immigrant jobs.. (You obviously have not looked at the US job demographics, I have.)

              Like

              • Glenn Stehle says:

                G. Combs,

                Engineers and industrial workers can go pound sand. What we need to MAGA is more social justice peacocks and millionaire/billionaire NFLers.

                Like

              • TheLastDemocrat says:

                Yes, Combs: and as long as we all think the game is (R) versus (D), it will continue this way, with the Rs and Ds selling out our country while we fuss about racism, social security, and abortion rights.

                Like

        • TheLastDemocrat says:

          Auto production in the U.S. is more costly for two main reasons, and both could be addressed through trade agreements to optimize the whole picture. Two reasons: labor costs and environmental practices.
          One solution is to allow foreign manufacturers to pick their tariff level. If they meet more labor-rights criteria, such as allowing a bathroom break every 4 hours, etc., then they earn the opportunity to export to U.S. with a lower tariff level.
          If they deal with environmentally dangerous waste well, then then they earn the opportunity to export to U.S. with a lower tariff level.
          They choose how “responsible” they want to be, we audit, and we abide by some stepped tariff scheme, with lower tariff for better labor and environmental practices.

          This forces them to manufacture cheaply and have a high tariff, or manufacture more expensively, and have a lower tariff. Costs rise. At some point, it again becomes favorable, economically, to build in the U.S. versus China.

          Either we improve the life of the laborers in other countries, and protect their environment, or we get more U.S. manufacturing jobs.

          Overall, though, yes, it is true: the cost of a car will go up. We have been on a weird ride where our middle class jobs have dried up, so families have fewer dollars for buying stuff, but we can buy Chinese-manufactured stuff really cheaply. My idea reverses this: we get more middle class jobs, and stuff costs us more.

          Frankly, I have enjoyed plenty of cheap Chinese stuff. I am now satiated on this stuff. The TV I can buy for $150 nowadays compared to the TV I bought 30 years ago for $150 – astounding difference. For the same money, the TV is ten times better: takes HDMI, weighs so little I can hang it on the wall, has wifi, etc.

          Now I want to see jobs back in the U.S., and bite the bullet on higher prices on cars and the other cheap-Chinese stuff.

          Like

      • Glenn Stehle says:

        Thecleaner said:

        The Canadian and Mexican trade reps are simply protecting their citizens.

        Nah. The Canadian and Mexican trade reps are simply protecting the globalist coroporations. Here’s a great explanation.

        The story of NAFTA, as told from a Canadian auto-parts plant in Mexico
        https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/09/10/the-story-of-nafta-as-told-from-a-canadian-auto-parts-plant-in-mexico.html

        Thecleaner said:

        It is the US CORPORATIONS who are raping the American people, just so no ambiguity exists.

        Nah, it is the transnational corporations who are raping the American people. These can be German, Japanese, Korean or American.

        Liked by 2 people

        • thecleaner says:

          The simple fact is every Corporation is globalist now.
          Under your scenario you prefer the US to become a domestic economy. Meaning made in the US for use in the US.
          Good luck with that.
          Trade deficits are easy to cure. This has NOTHING to do with that.
          This is the US government targeting specific industries for protectionist trade policy.
          This will fail epically if measures are not taken to draSticallly reduce the global value of the US dollar. Millions of retired people depend on pensions generated by the profits of US globalist corporations. Be careful what you wish for or the US taxpayers will be ponying up again to ensure these pension funds dont collapse due to unprofitable businesses

          Like

          • Glenn Stehle says:

            thecleaner says:

            The simple fact is every Corporation is globalist now.

            This is what Scott Adams called a “bizarre absolute.”

            Are you seriously going to argue that Harold Hamm’s Continental Resources, with almost 100% of its production and profits being domestic, is as globalist as Rex Tillerson’s ExxonMobil?

            Like

              • Glenn Stehle says:

                Thecleaner,

                Well yes, Continental Resources produces oil and natural gas in the US and exports it. That’s very different from producing oil and natural gas in other countries and importing it.

                Which brings us full circle back to something else you mention: “Trade deficits.”

                Do you have any earthly idea what our trade deficit would look like if not for the Aubrey McClendons and Harold Hamms of the United States?

                Like

                • Thecleaner says:

                  Explain to me why US exports are good, and not globalist predation, when everybody elses are.
                  These exports are adding to the trade deficit of another country yes?
                  Stifling competition and putting up barriers to choice and trade has a name…communism.

                  Like

                • Glenn Stehle says:

                  Thecleaner,

                  So you believe reigning in the US’s chronic trade deficit is “globalist predation”?

                  Looking at the US’s trade deficit over the past 40 years, I’d say your fears of the US becoming a “globalist leach” are overwrought.

                  Like

                • Thecleaner says:

                  You mean a globalist leech no?

                  Like

                • Thecleaner says:

                  Glenn,
                  I think we are somewhat in agreement, although it may not seem that way,
                  The US absolutely should deal with trade deficits. Its just how you do it that matters. You cant on one hand call companies or Countries who export product into the US globalists, and then in the next breath deny that monicker for US exports.

                  See my post below on Canada trade defits. The US tries to get cute with the numbers, and excludes the massive global trade in US services, as if this is not mountains of money flowing into the US economy. This could be bankers, accountants, brokers or drillers…its all jobs though.

                  The facts are, wyen you account for both goods and services in the balance of trade equation, the US runs a trade surplus with every country in the western hemisphere, except Nicaragua oddly enough.

                  Like

              • Glenn Stehle says:

                This is what MAGA looks like. Now if other sectors could just emulate the success of the domestic oil and gas sector.

                Like

                • Thecleaner says:

                  I will offer one final point on this topic. I absolutely no “globalist”, but I believe that free and fair markets create the best products for the best price, and generally stimulate the most sustained growth.
                  Once again…these auto sector demands have ZERO to do with trade deficits. This is the US government targeting specific industries for protectionist trade practices.
                  In a free market economy, private industry produces goods in the most cost effective way possible while sourcing materials from all available sources, and complying with whatever regulation is in place where production is occurring.
                  Trade deficits with China etc can be rectified in two ways. Make something the Chinese want to buy, or regulate their exports into the US, based on any number of concerns, slave labour comes to mind, among other reasons.
                  However when a government gets in the business of dictating to private industry, where, when, and how they may produce their product, and further dictates which materials and suppliers must be used, well then that is not free market, not the way democratic nations operate, and is self defeating.
                  Combine this approach with the will to maintain the dominant currency, then you create a completely domestic market for anything you make…nobody will buy it, because government meddling has raised the cost beyond being competitive on the world market.
                  You must then further cut off imports to protect the domestic economy, or poace massive tarrifs on everything to equalize the price.
                  Trade deficits are addressed through more trade…not protectionism. It will fail.

                  Like

          • A.D. Everard says:

            Thecleaner, first you say “It is the US CORPORATIONS who are raping the American people, just so no ambiguity exists.”

            Sounds like blaming the Americans. Then you say, “The simple fact is every Corporation is globalist now.”

            So I guess it’s globalism and globalist corporations that are screwing the American people.

            Like

            • Thecleaner says:

              The vast majority of these Corporations fly the US flag and trade on the NYSE, DOW, and Nasdaq.
              There is a difference between international trade and “globalism”
              I was throwing the globalist monicker back at the initiator of the term. Does Ford, Chrysler, GM sell cars outside of the US? YES. Are these American companies? YES. Do these companies CHOOSE to open plants in other countries? YES. Does anybody force them too? NO. Do the governments of Canada or Mexico tell them where to buy there parts? NO
              Do the goverments of Canada and Mexico have any current interest in dictating the terms of how these companies construct their vehicles outside of recognized safety standards? NO.
              The question you should be asking, is if these facilities are moved to the US, and costs increase by 30% on currency conversion alone, who do you plan on selling these vehicles too?

              Like

              • A.D. Everard says:

                Independent countries are stronger countries and that makes for better trade too. Foregoing economic strength for cheap imports is no solution in the long run. Indeed there will be growing pains for every nation wanting to learn to stand on its own feet once more. Independence and true freedom come with responsibility and – yes – cost. I’d say America is ready and willing to stand tall once again.

                Like

                • Thecleaner says:

                  I would agree to a degree…provided that you could actually sustain your economy independently.
                  As it stands, without major imports of metals and minerals from other nations, the US economy grinds to a halt under current levels. Should domestic manufacturing increase, that reliance increases.
                  The decision that needs to be made is who do you want supplying those imports, China , Khazakistan, and Niger, or Canada and Australia…. I know where you are headed, and as long as option one works, then everything will work out just fine.

                  Like

        • Thecleaner says:

          Canadian auto parts plants in Mexico are 100% NAFTA compliant under any North American “content quota”.
          Raising the quota from 62% to 85% or even 100 % is irrelevant…these are North American parts, being assembled for vehicles that will be sold mainly in North America.
          This term “globalist” is becoming the new “racist”…it loses its meaning and affect when spewed into conversations in which it has no basis in reality.
          The US now wishes to have 50% of the parts manufactured in the US. This will NEVER happen, and is simply a poison pill to pull out.
          Just pull out and cut the crap, and we will see where the cards fall.

          Like

          • Glenn Stehle says:

            Thecleaner,

            Here’s what the plant manager of the Canadian-owned automobile parts manufacturing plant located in Mexico City said in the video in the article I linked above. Just what part of what he said is it that you fail to understand?

            In one way if they change it [mandating a higher percentage of North American parts that go into the fabrication of a new car] and have more content, more NAFTA content, for us is going to be good. Actually in the past there were some content that came from China mostly… If we can have some tighter rules for NAFTA content for us it’s going to be good.

            https://www.thestar.com/business/2017/09/10/the-story-of-nafta-as-told-from-a-canadian-auto-parts-plant-in-mexico.html

            Like

            • Thecleaner says:

              I would ask you the same question.
              Like I said, these are North American parts, and are NAFTA compliant.
              You call them globalist predators. Which one is it?

              Like

      • Wee2low says:

        While there is some truth to what you’re saying I disagree that it’s just “US CORPORATIONS who are raping the American people”. Sorry if I’m mistaking what you’re saying but that just seems like a simplistic view that lefties like to use to create the corporate boogieman.

        While there is truth in what you’re saying, US corporations are only looking to increase their profits by any means necessary. Afterall they’re ultimately beholden to the shareholders. If they’re allowed to do this they will. That’s not to say what they’re doing is ethical, however if the consumer doesn’t like to ethics of a corporation then the can choose to do business elsewhere. Unfortunately most consumers are oblivious to these issues or just don’t care.

        In terms of commerce, a function of Congress is to protect the interests of their constituents, not the interests of corporations that provide them with cash and lavish lifestyles in trade for favorable legislation (NAFTA).

        Like

        • Thecleaner says:

          The US has a $12b trade deficit with Canada on trade of goods.
          Canada has a $25b trade deficit with the US on trade in services.

          Canada has a net $13b trade deficit with the US. Given that the US population and economy is 10x the size of Canada, this is equivalent to a $130b US trade deficit.

          https://ustr.gov/countries-regions/americas/canada

          Canada has a $10b trade deficit in goods with Mexico….again compared with the US this would be equivalent to a $100b trade deficit. This is almost double the US per capita trade deficit.

          So I suggest the US and Mexico stop leeching of the host. Lets not let facts get in the way of good ole nationalistic drooling.

          Like

          • Paul Revere says:

            Here is a canadian/auto industry troll if I ever saw one. All of his points favor the globalist point of view. The argument he/she made is that the trading partners are complying with the nafta rules. The point however is the rules are made to favor bending the American worker over the barrel. It is time we control our destinies, after all, our first concern should be with our own country. A leader like our nation must lead, first for our nation, and then everyone else comes second. We have no duty past fairness, and should expect the same in return.
            The claim is costs of cars will go up. Wanna bet?! When a pickup retails for $30 to $60K I dare say the margins will be adjusted to fit the market and demand. A $0.50 widget from china via mexico is not going to cost so much more if made in the USA that it will impact the retail price.
            No way you can convince me A $50,000 truck has anything to do with the cost. It is all about what ppl are willing to pay. Our market is skewed indeed, but it is not because of the cost of raw materials, it is due to what clever marketing has done to the American buying public’s perceptions. Frankly, if you own a car or truck that costs that kind of money you are in a class of stupid all your own.

            Like

            • Thecleaner says:

              I guess you forget the auto sector bailout in 2008, saving millions from losing their pensions?
              You can assemble the cars, we kick your proffesional service providers making the real money out.
              Once again, you run the equivalent of $130b trade surplus with Canada…but you still complain.
              Show me your math einstein. Do you know what the exchange rate is on the peso to $US or $C to $US.
              This aint about 50 cent widgets my man

              Like

              • Paul Revere says:

                Net income was $4.6 billion, with an adjusted pre-tax company profit of $10.4 billion. Those totals are the Michigan-based company’s second best in its history, said President and CEO Mark Fields of the FORD motor co.
                That is $10.4 BILLION in PROFIT!
                Guess we do not need to get all caught up in those nasty legacy costs….we can afford to make them here.

                Like

              • Paul Revere says:

                By the by, that manufactured auto crisis was made to strip America and it’s workers of the automotive industry. Sundance has it laid out for us, so lets be clear, we are on to the scam and we now have a President and administration who are going to reverse the manipulation of markets. Is it gonna hurt some of the countries who were the beneficiaries of the scam, yes, maybe. Is that a reason to let our country’s working class be trampled, I don’t think so.
                Better get used to the idea, it is coming like a tsunami!

                Like

            • Thecleaner says:

              The $50’000 is called legacy costs.
              Look it up. Its to pay the pensions and benefits for 4 retired union workers for every current worker.
              I guess you could always give them welfare, ebt, and medicaid instead

              Like

            • Thecleaner says:

              An article on legacy costs and their threat to the auto industry

              https://www.autoblog.com/2006/09/20/explaining-the-burden-of-legacy-costs/

              Given that the average margin on vehicle sales is about 10% any cost increase to this industry will result in either higher prices, or risk of bankruptcy.

              Like

              • Paul Revere says:

                blahhh blaahhhh blahhh obfuscation just is not going to work with me. There is no way to justify your claims. This is a new day with new rules and a President working for real Americans. Wanna do business outside the USA, go ahead, but expect a fair and reasoned impact for that decision.

                Like

                • Raven says:

                  “This is a new day with new rules and a President working for real Americans.”

                  Love the new day. . .

                  Love the new rules. . .

                  Love the new President. . .

                  Because he does the job of a real leader and takes care of his countrymen first.

                  This Thanksgiving we Americans have massive things to be grateful for!

                  Like

  2. Sentient says:

    Uh oh, we’re gonna get rebuffed. /sarc

    Liked by 7 people

  3. well.
    if Canada and Mexico won’t change, then LET’S JUST KILL NAFTA AND BUILD ALL OF OUR VEHICLES HERE SO AMERICANS CAN HAVE THOSE SKILLED JOBS.
    WE DON’T OWN CANADA OR MEXICO ANYTHING AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR WORKERS.

    Liked by 21 people

    • snailmailtrucker says:

      I like the way you think Jim !

      Liked by 5 people

    • yakmaster2 says:

      Yes. No more willful distribution of our wealth to Mexico and Canada. No more propping up other nations’ economies at the expense of our own. These nations are never grateful for it anyway!!

      Liked by 6 people

      • Aguila2011 says:

        Master, you have hit the nail on the head. The key word is GRATITUDE. And so many countries, including those our troops have died for to give them freedom, do not appreciate that price. Like good greedy people, all they want is more. Damn, what is it with people. And that history of America’s benevolence is not even taught any more, even less their own history under the thumb of tyranny and despotism because of …. feelings!

        Liked by 1 person

      • jmclever says:

        @yakmaster you have put in a nutshell the globalist socialist communists’ goal to destroy America. The next question is “why.” What is it about America and its citizens that draws their ire? When we can answer that question we, our children and grandchildren will be safe from them for more than the next 8 years and however long the Trump effect can be extended by wise supreme court appointments.

        Liked by 1 person

        • G. Combs says:

          “What is it about America and its citizens that draws their ire? “

          It is really quite simple.
          There are only two forms of government.
          1,. A government BY the people formed to protect the RIGHTS of the individual no matter how weak or poor.
          2. A government FOR the Elite formed to exploit and enslave the general population for the EXCLUSIVE benefit of the chosen few.

          Or as Thomas Jefferson said:

          “The issue today is the same as it has been throughout all history, whether man shall be allowed to govern himself or be ruled by a small elite.”

          Once you understand this every thing else falls in place.

          The Elite have been determined to kill the US Constitution since it was written. Unfortunately they came very very close to killing it with the Trans-Pacific Partnership that replaces the Supreme Court as the ultimate authority over US law with a Corporate Tribunal as the ultimate authority over US law.

          Liked by 1 person

    • TeaForAll says:

      Kill The Bill
      BUILD AMERICAN
      BUY AMERICAN

      Like

    • Minnie says:

      Thank you!

      Liked by 7 people

    • Aguila2011 says:

      Is there any real evidence this kind of action, calling, texting, emailing your so-called representative has any effect? When I have tried reaching someone not in my chain of command, they won’t listen because I am not one of “their” constituents. There is never any reply other than a boilerplate response.

      The polls lie. The news lies (fake news). So how do you get your message across? I respond to the White House and DJT emails with surveys, and even those I wonder about because at then all they do is have their hand out for more MONEY! I’ll be damned if I am going to give the RNC a penny, anything but my lick spittle disdain for all the stupid and traitorous, eunuchs with no spine representatives who do nothing but fight our president.

      Like

      • Tegan says:

        Aguila…I think (but obviously do not know for certain) at least a “pro/con” tally is recorded. But, to me the biggest benefit of contacting Congressional offices is putting them on notice that we, the voters, are engaged in the issue. We let them know are watching the process as well as the outcome. That has to make at least a small impact. When you get right down to it…our voices and our contributions are the only weapon, as compromised as they might be, are our only weapons. So, IMO, we need to use them.
        Perhaps another Treeper can add personal experience to this.

        Like

        • pigletrios says:

          Yep….totally annoying we can’t email! Mail letters………they need to know that once they took the oath of office for whichever state their “constituents” elected them from, they took on the responsibility of governing for EVERYONE.

          Like

  4. wheatietoo says:

    Even an “85% content” of origin seems too low to me.
    Is it unreasonable to require 100%?

    At any rate…I think we’re being reasonable to ask for the 85%.

    Liked by 18 people

    • wolfmoon1776 says:

      I agree – 85% is like a fallback position. 100% or 95% sounds a LOT better.

      Liked by 13 people

    • Aguila2011 says:

      I say “screw them!” In the world of free and fair enterprise, let both Canada and Mexico start their own auto companies to compete on the world stage. The brits, french, italians, germans, japanese, even the chinese are doing it. Why do we let them eat our lunch?

      Tell them to go innovate with all their “genius” that is so good at crime and corruption. Put some of those talents to work actually producing something of value to the world.

      Like

  5. Minnie says:

    Oh, cry us a river.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. haditwgov says:

    Some call it 4D chess but it’s actually caring and watching out for your neighbors and overall community. Canada and Mexico see no problem sticking it to USA. Rather than build their own vibrant economy they clearly choose a short term dead end strategy of leaching off the host. What’s the plan for the day the host dies?! Despicable! Thank you for the millionth, billionth (?) time President Trump.

    Liked by 19 people

  7. It should be 100% to be called American.

    Liked by 4 people

    • WVPatriot says:

      Is there any part of an automobile that we have not/could not manufacture? If we are able; why not insist on 100%? I am tired of driving bastardized autos!!!

      MAGA…

      …God bless President Donald John Trump!

      Liked by 6 people

      • Esperanza says:

        I don’t trust the quality control on these parts. I don’t like buying these electrical goods.
        There will be deaths. And I don’t want to be them.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Maquis says:

          Moi non plus!

          Like

        • G. Combs says:

          “I don’t trust the quality control on these parts.”

          OH Brother Ain’t that the TRUTH. I have been an ASQ certified Quality Engineer since 1982 and the quality of goods imported into the USA is CRAP! Part of it is ISO and part is Just-in-Time.

          My trucks are 1987, 1982 and 1983. I am spending well over $5,000 to have my 3/4 ton diesel pick-up rebuilt because I refuse to drive the very expensive ‘throw-away’ don’t repair vehicles now being sold. I have had several strangers trying to buy that truck BTW.

          Like

        • G. Combs says:

          Here are old articles on the ‘safety’ of USDA/FDA ‘inspected’ — HAR HAR HAR — products imported into the USA. They are from the time we farmers were fighting the Food UNSafe Modernization Act that gave the WTO control over US farms and food.

          The New York Times article “The Safety Gap” written by Gardiner Harris, 11/2/2008

          “This year, 18.2 million shipments of food, devices, cosmetics and drugs are expected to enter more than 300 U.S. ports; the FDA. had 454 investigators in 2007 — one and a half per port — to scrutinize them..”

          “China’s leap to one of the biggest suppliers of pharmaceutical ingredients in the world over the last decade [note the date], Generic drug makers in the United States, where price competition is fierce, were the first to seek cheaper drug ingredients…Over the past six years, the F.D.A. has managed to inspect annually an average of just 15 of the 714 Chinese drug plants that export to the United States. At its present pace, the FDA. would need more than 50 years to visit all Chinese plants. By contrast, the FDA. inspects domestic drug plants every 2.7 years

          Report Rips FDA Oversight Of Produce
          “FDA’s efforts to combat foodborne illness are hampered by staffing shortages, infrequent inspections and lax enforcement at fresh produce processing plants, according to congressional investigators. The Government Accountability Office (GAO) report also said only 1% of produce imported into the U.S. is inspected, and the practice of mixing produce from several sources makes tracing contamination challenging…The report said inspections at produce-processing facilities are rare, and when problems are discovered, FDA relies on the industry to correct them without oversight or follow-up. Between 2000 and 2007, FDA detected food safety problems at more than 40% of the 2,002 plants inspected, yet half of those plants were inspected only once. The plants with food safety problems received only warning letters from FDA, and even those ended in 2005…

          Salmonella Source Found
          The Salmonella strain associated with the lastest foodborne illness outbreak has been found, in irrigation water as well as in a sample from some serrano peppers at a Mexican farm. The farm is located in Nuevo Leon, Mexico. “The agency seized no fresh produce, sought no injunctions and prosecuted no firms”
          http://www.americanvegetablegrower.com/veggie_bytes/page.php?page=crops_markets#fdafouled

          Like

          • TheLastDemocrat says:

            I strongly suspect this inability to monitor import safety is by design – this is yet another option up for sale to the highest bidder by our elected representatives.

            Like

    • Texian says:

      Absolutely – a “100% rule.” A rule that requires the vehicle to be 100% American made.

      Liked by 1 person

  8. Jim says:

    Disgusting what has been allowed to happen over the years.

    Liked by 7 people

    • WVPatriot says:

      AGREED…how is destroying the United States of America by our congress and lobbyists not actions of anarchy…the personification of sedition and anarchy?

      Liked by 8 people

      • starfcker says:

        We all know lobbying is a problem. But that COC dollar is more insidious than that. Take Charles Hugh Smith. He’s been pretty pro-american for a long time. He seemed like he understood economics for a long time. Now read this current article of his. Of Two Minds – Want Widespread Prosperity? Radically Lower Costs
        http://oftwominds.bmobilized.com/?task=get&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.oftwominds.com%2Fblognov17%2Flower-costs11-17.html&width=360. Seems like Mr. Smith has forgotten everything that we thought he knew. He is basically taking the concept of broad money, (prosperity is simple, low cost of living and abundant employment) which they used to teach in business school when I was there, and bastardizing it, by substituting employment for trade. The most important thing (now) is lower costs (the Walmart bring it in from China model). Employment be damned. There’s also a link in the article that shills for ‘congestion pricing’ for the NYC subway. You know, charge the poor bastards who have to get to work more money. Free money corrupts everything. And it appears to have gotten to Mr. Smith.

        Liked by 3 people

        • WVPatriot says:

          starfcker, I will check your link tomorrow…very tired at the moment with Thanksgiving two days from now. Thank you for the information.

          I am becoming increasingly aware that we have been lied to by just about everyone we have thought well…deceived by so many. It is so difficult to trust and verify.

          Liked by 2 people

        • Aguila2011 says:

          Smith has some good points about economics but as with everything, I always tell everyone I know, “consider the source” and these days few are to be trusted. He made his money playing with money so in my book I always take his words with a grain of salt. Anyone who played on Wall Street and then went to th islands to relax and wax prophetically about life is to be looked at with a jaundiced eye.

          Like

  9. haditwgov says:

    A mere 10 minutes after reading and commenting once, we need a second wall!! Build them both NOW!

    Liked by 8 people

    • WVPatriot says:

      YEP…(grinning) southern and northern — schnell!

      Liked by 5 people

      • Carrie2 says:

        WVPatriot, I asked for both north and south walls a long time ago and I emailed that thought to Pres. Trump. Email our president and tell him what you think, want, or whatever: whitehouse.gov/contact#page.

        Like

        • WVPatriot says:

          Thank you Carrie2. I am chagrined that I have not been to your suggested site in too long a period of time. 99.9% of my time is spent on this site.

          sundance and The Last Refuge are a national treasures. Thank you for your hard work…thank you seems such a small expression for your tireless efforts…!

          The Maganomic (Trump, et al.) model of Capitalism is finally going to drive a stake through the socialist heart of the Keynesian flawed and failed model. I have prayed for decades that this moment would come before we were we were destroyed from within.

          GOD has not forsaken us or his beloved AMERICA!

          Liked by 2 people

          • Tegan says:

            WV…you are so correct about Sundance and this site. We have so much to celebrate and give thanks for this year, and one way I am personally giving thanks is a small contribution here. As I juggle holiday expenses in my mind, I realize there are too many things we take for granted that are a very important part of our daily lives and well-being…and that needs to be acknowledged and rewarded.

            Like

      • Turranos says:

        We can drive the socialist lemmings out of their minds and over the cliff by clamoring for “Two Walls Now!” The mention of one wall drives them batty but two walls will have them wanting to be put out of their misery. Everyone start getting that message out on the digital wind, right away.

        Liked by 1 person

    • Aguila2011 says:

      What can we do? I would normally say what we need is a dependable justice system that holds up the rule of law but then, that swamp is full of “lawyers” so you know they can’t be trusted.

      Walls are not really the best solution. One of my heroes, Gen. George S. Patton said “Fixed fortifications are nothing but monuments to man’s stupidity,” or something like that. No, what we need is law enforcement, not more laws. And enforcement needs to be swift, immediate and consistently applied. You come across the border illegally, you are a criminal. It does not matter if you are “seeking a better life.” Everyone is. But by entering illegally “they have painted an illegal sign on their own back” and should be prosecuted.

      All this feel-good, “but they are good people” “they just want a better life” “thats what America means” is good for the media, but they don’t pay the freight. Tax payers do That is the rub. And when it comes to money, everyone wants their cut and the illegals are used to scam even more out of the system for the leeches who support such a system.

      Like

      • TheLastDemocrat says:

        “Prosecuted?” How does that make anything better? These guys are going to cease working off the grid because they are on some double-secret probation? Do you mean put them in jail? That has a cost.
        You have to be able to get people who come in illegally back out, and keep those illegal-acting individuals out. It takes a border to have a border.

        Like

  10. TheLastDemocrat says:

    Again: we hang in there, discussing trade.
    We make reasonable requests / demands. If “Made in Mexico” can mean “Made in China,” that is not reasonable; we are not supporting our neighbor, we are supporting an open door to whomever wants to buy influence in USA via Mexico.

    So, Canada and Mexico decide THEY do not like the reasonable terms of agreement. THEY decide to walk away. So, Trump is not the spoiler; they are. Broadcast what got them hung up to get some portion of local support.

    Liked by 11 people

    • Maquis says:

      Well, I say we don’t go below 85%, BUT, every SINGLE PART from outside must be idenftified and it’s origins assigned and published. Our manufacturers have cheated long enough, they call their stuff American, assembled in near enemy territory of parts derived from clear enemies, and we know nothing of it. Lets end that. Online, on the window sticker, tell us the truth. Then watch them switch their alliegences.

      MAGAAAA!

      Like

    • Glenn Stehle says:

      TheLastDemocrat says:

      So, Trump is not the spoiler; they are.

      The same can be said of the social justice peacocks who throw a temper tantrum every time they don’t get their way.

      Liked by 1 person

  11. PgtSndThinker says:

    So, how do we know our attempts at communication with our congressperson get to them? I tried once, and got an automated reply implying that my communication was on a different topic, and opposite from my actual position. It was rather like receiving a thank you note for a wedding gift describing the wrong gift!

    Liked by 4 people

    • wolfmoon1776 says:

      Contact them on Twitter or Facebook. THAT actually gets to a live aide who actually reacts to what is said. A smart comment will get forwarded to the congressperson.

      Liked by 2 people

      • WVPatriot says:

        I have avoided Twitter and FB for years…is this the best way to be heard?

        Too many responses by word processor…pure arrogance on the part of OUR servants in the senate and house.

        Liked by 6 people

        • wolfmoon1776 says:

          I really think it’s the best way to get a message across. These politicians are actually very sensitive about their Twitter and Facebook pages. They hire social media-savvy people to keep a close eye on their sites.

          Aides to politicians are very sensitive to public sentiment on social media, but are often overly sensitive or insensitive to what is actually being said, thus easily trolled by the left. What is happening to Trump on Twitter (massive trolling by leftists) is just an extension of the fact that the left does this to ALL Republican politicians. They LITERALLY have people who camp out watching politicians’ Twitter or FB accounts, waiting to pounce, and who dominate the discussions.

          Politicos react to Facebook in the same way that (1) people now freak out in real life over being trolled on the internet, and (2) many gang fights now start over being disrespected on Facebook or Twitter, rather than walking on somebody else’s turf.

          Liked by 2 people

          • WVPatriot says:

            Thank you wolfmoon. Perhaps I will have to give up my charter membership in the Luddite movement and investigate Twitter.

            Liked by 3 people

            • wolfmoon1776 says:

              Great!

              If you do – just one piece of advice. The Dem trolls will try to engage you on the Republican candidate sites, and they will employ various psychological tricks to (1) get you to stop making honest suggestions, which always stand out, and which the pols care about and actually look for, (2) discourage and demoralize you, (3) maybe even make you fearful, and (4) make you an example to scare off other real constituents.

              Ignore ALL of that. They are using Alinsky’s playbook, where FEAR is bigger than reality. I never respond to them – they HATE it. Or I’ll talk to other conservatives in the replies and diss the trolls in the third person, ignoring anything said by the trolls. They hate that, too. Show strength, show resolve, and err on the side of ignoring them. Best approach.

              “Good-guy establishment” and waffly Republicans are really happy to hear stuff that gives them backbone, from real constituents and fans. You can really make a difference by letting them know how you feel. Even if you’re anonymous.

              Social media is fun and effective for MAGA, but you have to toughen up and ignore a lot of flak. However, I also find that honesty and fair responses, even to trolls, is useful. Lastly, I have found that assuming people are asking things nicely or with good intentions has saved me from needlessly insulting innocent people with mean responses, had I assumed their post was mean-spirited.

              Good luck!!! 😀

              Liked by 4 people

              • thluckyone says:

                Wolf, you are just THE BEST. Your participation in this blog enriches us all. We are SO BLESSED to have you and Flepore and Wheatie and yeah, even Howie – and so many AMAZING people here. Our treasured Sundance attracts some INCREDIBLE talent into his circle of posters. THANK YOU for being here!

                Liked by 1 person

          • Maquis says:

            Gang warfare over Social Media, that’s a big LOL!

            So, Chicago should maybe blackout cell towers in, certain parts of the ‘hood?

            🙃

            Liked by 2 people

    • TreeClimber says:

      At least you got a reply. I contacted two of my Congressmen and got nothing.

      Liked by 2 people

      • WVPatriot says:

        I may have received their letters; however, in essence I got nothing, also.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Turranos says:

          Back in the day, when the vermin were mapping out NAFTA, I had many letters going back and forth between myself and a CongressRAT. He tried so hard to get me to change my mind about NAFTA. It did not work but I have to acknowledge that he sure responded to my letters that were punching him right in the nose. Too bad that we don’t get responses like that, these days.

          Like

      • Aguila2011 says:

        “I got nothin!” ha ha, good one. You know the swamp they infest is like a black hole and they make sure their homes “back home” are likewise protected from the little people. Only the lobbyists and the rich and famous have access to their “gated” community.

        Liked by 1 person

    • jonvil says:

      That also has been my experience, AFTER weeks, and in one case months, have passed.

      Like

  12. free2313 says:

    The automotive industry in Canada consists primarily of assembly plants of foreign automakers, most with headquarters in the United States or Japan, along with hundreds of manufacturers of automotive parts and systems.
    KEY FEATURES OF THE AUTO PACT were the 1:1 production-to-sales ratio and Canadian Value Added requirements. As of 2015 major car companies that operate are Fiat-Chrysler, Ford, General Motors, Honda, and Toyota.[1]

    ALL COMPANIES ARE OWNED BY AMERICA OR JAPAN…

    QUESTION??? …. If all the Multinational Corporations are owned by Americans and a couple of Multinationals Corporations are owned by Japan , why isn’t the negotiations solely with the American Corporations that are making the profits? ….. Is that not correct?

    Once that is settled then the Multinationals can renegotiate a new deal with Mexico and Canada.

    It seems to me, that the only asset that Mexico and Canada supply is cheat labor and that they have very little negotiation powers..

    Liked by 1 person

    • wheatietoo says:

      You’re right. It’s…cheap labor.
      That is the prime motivator for the companies to become ‘Multinational’ in the first place.

      There are also other factors, such as fewer Govt Regulations.
      Easier to be a polluter in other countries.

      Just like with us Consumers…it’s all about the bottom line.
      As consumers, we watch what we spend because we have a finite amount of money to purchase things with.
      So we tend to buy things that are cheaper.

      We cannot force companies to keep their manufacturing plants here.
      We would Not Like the type of govt Power that would be able to do that.

      What we can do is create an environment that is Not Hostile to Business.
      Which is what we’ve had for a long time, thanks largely to the policies that Dems have championed.

      If we want Businesses to stay here, create jobs here…and pay the Higher Wages that we require here…
      Then we have to protect our Domestic Businesses.
      We have to protect them from the Imports which are not operating under the same burdens.

      Liked by 5 people

      • Maquis says:

        You’re on a roll tonight Wheatie! Preach it Brother!

        Liked by 2 people

      • Aguila2011 says:

        But Wheatie, you forget I think that probably the largest benefit to these companies is “tax evasion.” As Sundance said, the labor component is shrinking due to automation but the ability to skirt the law with NAFTA and ship into the US and avoid import taxes must be quite significant. And do these saving actually get passed on to the paying public, the consumer, I doubt it. That is where the real inflation in the cost of autos comes from, from graft and corruption and then creating a market price that is inflated.

        Like

  13. jmuniz1 says:

    You can go to the New American and use this site to send an email https://www.jbs.org/federal-legislative-action-alerts?vvsrc=%2fCampaigns%2f52430%2fRespond

    Liked by 2 people

    • Maquis says:

      Thanks, just did. 😎

      Like

    • Aguila2011 says:

      So much technology and options in addition to the old standbys and yet everyone is being herded into a couple of “favorites” that these clown politicians like? Something wrong with this picture that is not very democratic at all. I don’t do Faceplant, or Tweeker or any of those social media things and don’t want to. So where are my options when the old standbys don’t seem to work any more?

      Like

  14. alliwantissometruth says:

    It’s absolutely & utterly f***ing ridiculous!

    Think about it, foreign auto parts shipped to & assembled into cars in a foreign country, & then those cars are shipped here with no penalty to be sold for maximum profit

    You can just picture the past administrations “negotiators” bending over while they say “thank you sir, may I have another?” to the foreign negotiators while they swing a paddle

    This is not government, it’s a criminal enterprise scheming for the club that we’re not part of

    Liked by 5 people

    • Aguila2011 says:

      Uh sorry Alliwant, but I do not attribute any positive motives to our negotiators as “taking” anything for the American consumer. If we have learned anything, they simply sit back and let themselves be serviced by their choice boy, girl, young woman, whatever, whomever, as they watch their bank accounts grow by leaps and bounds. They are pathetic and their life’s work need to go down in flames. Kill NAFTA NOW!

      Liked by 2 people

  15. SoCalPatriot says:

    Canada and Mexico know we have all of the leverage. Our economy is multiple times their size…they can huff and puff all they want, but there isn’t a darn thing they can do to prevent the USA from winning this discussion.

    Liked by 3 people

  16. MIKE says:

    Seems like canada, messy co, and our congress are acting like ungrateful entitled welfare leeches. The host can only sustain so much loss of blood before a self defense mechanism kicks in to insure its own survival. Our Rx is PDJT.

    Liked by 3 people

  17. emet says:

    See NY Times article of 6/17/91, describing how US Customs exposed the NAFTA car scam. “US says Honda Skirted customs fees” (its online) No, we did not get the money back, our Customs commissioner was forced to apologize to to Honda

    Liked by 3 people

  18. trapper says:

    And the corporations that did this to American workers are about to get a 40+% reduction in their tax rate, while the middle class workers they screwed are about to get what? A limit on their deductions. And the auto companies would have NO requirement to invest their tax savings in the US. Triple screwed, again, by the globalist Republicans.

    Like

    • wheatietoo says:

      You are looking at this wrong.

      Why do you think Businesses have fled this country?
      It’s because we have one of the Highest Corp Tax Rates in the world!

      What incentive is there for a Business to operate here in the US?
      There have not been many good reasons to locate here.
      High Taxes + Regulations = Businesses go elsewhere.

      You want to save Social Security and Medicare?
      We do that with Jobs, Jobs and more Jobs.

      Businesses must match every dollar that they withhold in SocSec/Medicare taxes.
      Match. Every. Dollar.
      There is no escaping this.
      So Businesses are funding those programs as much as we taxpayers are.

      When our politicians do things that kill our jobs…they are also killing SocSec/Medicare.

      This is why we have to get the Corp Tax Rate down.
      It is the main way to compete with other countries for Jobs.

      Liked by 5 people

      • WVPatriot says:

        In my humble opinion, the most crucial part of the economic equation. If we could get the corporate tax rate to 15%, NO country on the planet would come close to our GDP.

        MAGANOMICS/TRUMPONOMICS!

        Liked by 5 people

        • wheatietoo says:

          Yes! Amen to that!

          That’s what I’ve been saying too…we need that Corporate Tax Rate down to 15%.

          There would be an Explosion of new jobs!

          At 20% there are still other countries that beat that.
          Ireland, I think, has a rate lower than that.
          That’s just one.

          But a 15% rate would be great!

          Liked by 3 people

          • Cliff says:

            10% is good enough for God, why not the gov ( and that applies to all of us, not just corps)?

            Liked by 3 people

          • Remington..... says:

            My fear is that corporations get the15-20 tax, bring the money back , and put it in their pockets instead of using it to expend their business. Why would they do that? Loathing of our President. The Apples of our Country would do anything to make him look bad.

            Like

            • Aguila2011 says:

              Why would they do that? Because in essence they have no loyalty except to MONEY! Even political differences won’t get in the way of making another buck. And the way Trump is clamping down on all their other schemes, I think they will take whatever is on the table.

              Liked by 1 person

    • kroesus says:

      moronic tract to take…….NO business pays corporate taxes…….those unable to get an army of lawyers and accountants to loophole their liability out of existence just raise the consumer price…….ALL taxes are paid by the end consumer….(hint: that would be you and me)

      Liked by 3 people

      • G. Combs says:

        True and false.

        Consumer is used to paying $XX.XX for your product. You move to China where labor and taxes and cost from regulations lowers your cost of production by 10%. YOU KEEP THE SAME PRICE!!!

        Then to further reduce cost you cheapen product, make it flimsier, less weight… AND CHARGE MORE.

        Look at clothes. I can not find a lined flannel shirt as thick as my old one. I can not find tee shirts as thick as my old ones. And fake fur??? The darn stuff is so cheap I can SEE THROUGH IT! (I make my own saddle pads and go nuts finding decent fake fur any more.)

        Then there are the frost free hydrants. I bought 12 USA made 23 years ago. They are ALL working fine with no trouble. Less than ten years ago I bought another dozen. They were made in China. They leaked the first year, or didn’t work, or broke or….. Now I have to dig all the darn things up and replace them IF I can find USA made.

        Most people rather pay a bit more for a product that actually works and LASTS more than a few months to a year.

        Like

    • trapper says:

      So many Ryan and McConnell fans here, drinking the globalist koolaid. Who woulda thought? Tax cuts for the globalist corporations who screwed America, with no restrictions on how they use the savings. Answer me this: what is to stop American car manufacturers from using the tax savings to bump into hyperdrive their offshoring of American jobs? They will have just that much more money to invest in building Mexican car plants.

      I’m all for cutting the corporate income tax, but I want it coupled with severe penalties for every American job transferred out of the country. Otherwise we will just have more of the same.

      And here’s a puzzle: if the corporate rate can be reduced by 40%, why can’t YOUR rate, whatever tax bracket you are in, ALSO be reduced by 40%? Forget fiddling with deductions and limits, Why not just reduce all bracket rates by 40%? Wouldn’t an extra few thousand a year in YOUR pocket, in everyone’s pocket, help the economy? The devil is always in the details, and the devil in these details is a tax increase for the middle class and a massive tax reduction for the very corporate globalists who offshored American jobs. And if I object I’m moronic? Arrggh!

      Like

      • Glenn Stehle says:

        trapper said:

        Why not just reduce all bracket rates by 40%? Wouldn’t an extra few thousand a year in YOUR pocket, in everyone’s pocket, help the economy?

        Sounds good to me.

        Like

  19. Kent says:

    Mexico and Canada balk at the prospect of not enjoying an unfair advantage over the American worker…an unfair advantage designed to undermine the American economy in favor of workers of other countries…

    Created and supported by our supposed elected representatives….said elected representatives need to hear from us…not by email but by letter…handwritten on paper….

    I have never written to my representatives…I didn’t think I could make a difference…now I don’t believe I would be wasting time….

    “You must remain engaged and understanding of the issues within these and other trade disputes.  President Trump is wearing the bullet-proof vest, but you must engage your congressman to let him/her know you support the administration and their objectives in these Trade deals.”

    Thank you Sundance for all of your efforts. You and The Treehouse are gems.

    I will take action and voice my support of “the administration and their objective in the Trade deals”.

    Liked by 7 people

    • Blacksmith8 says:

      “Mexico and Canada balk at the prospect of not enjoying an unfair advantage over the American worker…an unfair advantage designed to undermine the American economy in favor of workers of other countries…”

      ^^^^ THIS ^^^^
      The key atomic element in the structure of NAFTA is to ruin the American economy.
      Very well said.
      Thank You.

      Like

  20. Re post

    Liked by 7 people

  21. Kent says:

    sidenote….something I get a kick out of…

    Two days ago I bought a nice little Honda Accord sedan…2002…Special Edition…194,000 miles for $400….”everything works”……

    Sweet engine…transmission wacky….a bit challenged cosmetically but easy fix.

    I removed and cleaned four transmission solenoids…and the trans runs absolutely fantastic now.

    Being in Texas many speed limits are 75 mph…

    And I just LOVE zipping past $40,000 sedans in my little $400 ride…

    yay…..

    Liked by 6 people

  22. “…the regional (NAFTA) vehicle part content requirement should be increased to 85 percent from the current 62.5 percent.”

    85%? Why so low? It should be 100%!

    NAFTA, like all “international treaties”, is contrary to the national interest.

    Liked by 4 people

  23. bulwarker says:

    Expect the COC-owned CONservative cronies (like Levin) to rile up their audience against Trump meddling with NAFTA.

    Liked by 3 people

  24. Hope he dumps NAFTA and GATT, like Perot said we heard the giant sucking sound of the jobs leaving OUR country and going to theirs, and our country has gone downhill ever since. Besides, it didn’t keep the Mexicans in their own country as one of the claims was, that they would stay there for the “good jobs”.

    Liked by 5 people

  25. Texian says:

    Speak with your wallets too. Recently I needed a replacement part. I took out the old part – it was made in China.

    I went to the parts store and the guy at the counter said he had what I needed and it was only $129.95. (Automotive parts employees are trained to give you the lowest price item they stock). That means every part they bring to you is made in another country. The rule “you get what you pay for” is more relevant now than ever. You have to ask them to get the good stuff.

    I asked him where the part was made.. “I dunno..”. I said ‘I know – China. Now – what else you got.. “..Well I have one that is $189.95..”. I said “ok – go get me that one..” I took it out of the box, looked for the mark and showed him in the casting in the part “Made in U.S.A.” I then told him “This is the part that I want..”.

    The difference in the parts are like night and day. The performance of this new American Made part is exceptional. And I assure you I will never have to replace this part again..

    I had to replace a part that was Chinese made that wore out in what is advertised and supposed to be a vehicle from an American Automotive Manufacturer. This is what is called “false advertisement”..

    Liked by 7 people

    • Kent says:

      My 97 Ford Ranger has 340,000 plus miles and still runs great….I would take it anywhere right now….the few parts I’ve had to replace were not the ‘low budget’ items…

      You get what you pay for…..

      Liked by 6 people

      • CiscoKid says:

        Roger that.
        I’m an old geezer and am starting to have trouble reaching for items in the higher shelves of the kitchen cabinets.
        So I order a extender, metal and plastic.
        Can be adjusted from about 2 feet in length out to nearly 3 & 1/2 feet.
        Gripper handle to activate claws at one end.
        Didn’t last a week.
        I gave it a close look see after it broke.
        The metal parts were sturdy, but the plastic parts were the thinnest and most fragile.
        “Made in China”
        I’ve no grudge against China, but folks, this item bordered on shoody merchandise.

        Liked by 2 people

        • G. Combs says:

          Yes, my old meat thermometer inherited from Mom, gave up the ghost. So Hubby bought a new one, the ‘expensive one’ I put it in a nice roast, set the timer and kept checking the temp every 15 minutes after the roast was in for an hour. Finally after 2 hours I removed from the oven a piece of shoe leather with a thermometer that said it was stone cold…

          There went a $30 dollar roast. We checked it in boiling water and it never registered above STONE COLD. Seems it bent when I put it in the roast because the metal sheath was so thin. And of course it was Made in China.

          Like

    • Esperanza says:

      Plus they your part gave a family health insurance and clean air.

      Like

  26. usayes says:

    As I’ve posted on here a zillion times (or so it seems) the rules of origin are the key to the end of NAFTA – If you have 100% content requirement, you don’t need NAFTA – no benefit to MX or CND. NAFTA will be terminated, I have no doubt. Want to know what’s at stake? Google maquiladora. And folks, it ain’t just automobiles.

    Like

  27. Fed Up Joe says:

    Just remember, American workers are more expensive than foreign workers. Thus the American vehicles will cost more. Though I would like American cars to be made with 100% American parts, I can’t afford an American car as they are let alone an American car with more expensive parts. As a result, Americans will be buying more foreign cars. That’s not good. So Now we must consider placing tariffs (taxes) on the foreign cars. And if they balk on this, then to be fair, maybe we should tell the foreign car manufacturers that their foreign cars must be built with American parts if they want to sell them in the USA!!!

    Or another option,maybe, is that “American” cars built in foreign countries should cost less in the USA than those built and sold in the USA.

    There’s another issue here. When America builds a car, that car becomes part of the America’s assets. These assets are considered when America borrows money from the FRS. Perhaps the politicians want more expensive cars is so the government will have an increase in the asset base and then they they can borrow more against the USA.

    Also, more expensive cars will raise the tax revenue: politicians will like that. Especially since it will cover the tax reductions we’re supposed to get.

    And who do we have to blame for this? Bush Jr. penciled NAFTA and Bill Clinton passed it into law. There we have it: Republicans and Democrats working together to screw the American people. So maybe they, Bush and Clinton should pay for this mess. And the corporations were only too eager to reduce costs so they didn’t care about American workers. And maybe they shouldn’t care about increased costs because they’re supposed to get a tax reduction which would cover it.

    Bottom line is that this whole issue is crap.

    Like

    • Aguila2011 says:

      Good points Joe.
      One correction: BJ Clinton originated NAFTA and Bush Sr. signed it into law.

      Your point about the cost of autos is valid however I would point out that I would bet most of the cost savings from having all these non-US manufactured parts imported into the US without taxes is not passed on to the consumer but goes to the bottom line. These companies are still very inefficiently run despite being handed the butts by the Japanese back in the ’80s.

      And these US auto makers also inflate the prices with all the useless hi-tech gadgets that are nice to have but not necessary. They are made “standard” raising the base price and consumers are rarely given a basic model they can afford at a low price. And a lot of this crap is mandated as safety features and such by our bureaucratic BS artists in government agencies who could care less about the consumer because … lobbyists!

      So by leveling the playing field as Trump and company are working to do, I think market forces can be brought to bear making competition lower prices for the public who is strapped with stagnant wages and high unemployment. Getting things in proper alignment is going to take time but we have to keep driving a stake through the heart of the Dem/Lib/Left/Socialist/Obama machinations to fix things.

      Liked by 1 person

  28. Maquis says:

    Direct Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. NAFTA is two basket-cases and an economic powerhouse voting on which one to shamelessly exploit. It’s OUR pie they have set down to argue about the size of their slice(s) in these negociations. They bring so little to the table, yet they whine about not being able to cheat us. 😠

    Sundance has noted that the labor cost benefit of the two Sub-First-World nations is being negated by automation, removing an incentive to stay on the other side of our Future Walls. That actually also creates a positive incentive to move back to the US; technically competent culturally innovative American workers.

    Automation may mean fewer jobs, but the ones that remain will be high paying jobs for the kind of people that can manage such processes and continally improve them. Those workers will be Americans. America is unique in it’s innovative genious; creative destruction in overdrive.
    “We don’t need no stinking low wages!”

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Jim in TN says:

    You would think requiring more parts be made in NAFTA countries would benefit NAFTA countries.

    What they are demanding is an unfair advantage.

    Making something in Mexico and labeling it American made is just wrong. That is fraud, not free trade. Maybe allowing a NAFTA label instead of a natInal label, but not an American label.

    But they insist on more than that. They insist on making things with foreign parts, cheating on Tariffs for foreign parts, and lying about being made in America.

    And don’t you just love it when two parties can’t agree, how one side always blames the other? Even if one was more willing to budge than the other, which I doubt for this case, they are both unwilling to accept the other’s position.

    Damn North American Fraudulent Trade Agreement.

    And damn the Traitors who gave us this while lying to us about “free trade”.

    Funny how not even the opponents to NAFTA talked about the fraud.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. Jeff says:

    I’m reminded of the KARL ROVER SPLITTER PLAN exposed by SUNDANCE @ CTH .

    America was supposed to be ruled by either Hillary or Jeb Bush right now . Decades of GLOBALIST undermining of America by the enemy Domestic .

    The UNIPARTY was having a FIRE SALE on America at the expense of the AMERICA WORKER /TAXPAYER . From URANIUM 1 to the ” thousand paper cuts ” of NAFTA enriching CONgress and the multinational corporations .

    The complicit media and punditry all telling us America’s BEST DAYS WERE BEHIND US !! ” YOU didn’t build THAT ” is all commie projections at the TV ZOMBIES who still watch corporate ” NEWS ” product .

    SUNDANCE is right in that we must keep the electorate ENGAGED in this Andrew Breitbart ” WAR ”

    I can’t help but compare this epic EPHESIANS 6 struggle of GOOD vs EVIL to the scene in the movie BOOK OF ELI . I just streamed it AGAIN ast night . THIS movie is # 3 on my list with OUTLAW JOSE WALES @ #1 AND #2 IS GRAN TORINO

    As Eli takes on the gang in the bar he begins to recite Genesis

    ” 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

    19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.”

    unto dust shalt thou return ….the thorns and thistles of THE PROGRESSIVE / COMMUNIST MOVEMENT MUST be relegated to the DUST BIN OF HISTORY and we need all y’all in the FIGHT !

    Liked by 2 people

  31. rorschach says:

    Toyota builds all of their Tundras and Tacomas right here in San Antonio leveraging US labor. They roll a new truck off the line every 60 seconds. There’s a direct rail as the crow flies 3 hrs from the border, and every day, three times a day, the trains roll in carrying the frames and engines.

    Like

  32. jeans2nd says:

    Most overlook the role and influence of Amb Robert Lighthizer.

    Amb Lighthizer may be more determined to right the wrongs of NAFTA than Pres Trump.
    Amb Lighthizer’s mentor and teacher was Reagan’s Trade Rep and Sec of Labor, former Amb/Sen William Brock.

    From an 18 Sept 2017 speech at CSIS –
    6:57 “He (Sen Brock) is a bit of an insurgent, he kind of challenges orthodoxy…I think of it (Sen Brock as an insurgent) as a 1960s or 70s Tea Party guy”

    “…many sincerely believe that the prevailing world trade policy has been great for America and that those who complain are often people who are victims of economic progress. These analysts think that the whole problem is one of getting the correct message through – really not a policy direction issue but a failure to communicate. They believe that the voters are ill-informed, or in some cases perhaps ignorant. If they only really understood, they would support these trade agreements, the WTO, and all the rest.”

    “Most of you know that I am not in that group. I agree with the president”
    http://globaltraderelations.net/images/Article.Lighthizer_CSIS_9.18.17_.pdf

    Checking the twitter feed of the U.S. CoC, one sees that the CoC is tweeting about wheat farmers and NAFTA, and taking care of the DACA grifters (the CoC wanted digital addressed in NAFTA and that has been completed). Nary a word about U.S. auto production.

    The CoC seems to have fallen back to regroup. Trump-Lighthizer-Tea Party Brock seem to have confused the opposition.
    Then there are the Dem insurgents such as Rep Tim Ryan (D) OH-13.

    Take a bow, CTH. That was some dumb wolverine who left a msg to Ryan after an invite to Ryan’s tele-townhall last week. Well done, CTH.

    None of these folks stand a chance, imo.
    The CSIS vid is short – 43 min – and well worth the time.

    Like

  33. Shimei says:

    I haven’t seen SD update his prediction of the probability of NAFTA being successfully renegotiated but the last one I recall was close to 0%. That still looks right to me. It seems almost certain we are headed to replacing NAFTA with bilateral trade agreements.

    As President Trump says, I don’t blame Mexico or Canada, or corporations, for taking advantage of extremely favorable (for them) trade agreements. I blame the USA politicians, the corporate media deceivers, and the voters allowing themselves to be deceived, for establishing those “America Last” trade agreements.

    President Trump has made reducing trade deficits a primary goal. Balanced bilateral trade agreement implies small trade deficits, meaning our trading partner buys roughly as much stuff from us as we buy from them. That means we have to produce stuff that they want or need, while competing with other countries.

    President Trump is pushing for lower regulations and corporate taxes to make our companies more competitive. We also need an educated and motivated population to produce the best products in the world.

    As SD has so eloquently pointed out, until the whole multi-national corporations / special interest / lobbyists / establishment politicians Circle of Corruption is dismantled, progress will be at the speed of a “Turtle” (yes, Mitch, I’m talkin’ to you!).

    Call your congressman/senators today, “Hello, I’m calling to ask my congressman/senator to stop being a greedy, duplicitous scumbag, stop dealing with lobbyists and start doing what’s best for the citizens of the USA. That is all. Thank you.”

    Liked by 1 person

  34. doc00 says:

    If you check national content laws in Mexico, Canada, Europe and Asia, one will find the percentages much higher than 50% and there are also corollary Anti-Trust definitions to further drive national manufacturing content, technology transfer as well as tariffs. Globalist used in the context of President Trump refers to the situation whereby any and all foreign countries are permitted to protect industrial base and jobs while it is considered isolationist for US leaders to do the same. Those profiting from our poorly constructed trade deals are purposely clouding the discussion by driving the discussion away from that context.

    Like

  35. spacette55 says:

    Is there ANY vehicle 100% made and assembled in the USA?

    Like

  36. G. Combs says:

    Any bets that Congress rushes through a bill that REMOVES President Trump’s ability to end these treaties WITHOUT congressional approval?

    This is the law that allows President Trump control over treaties:

    PUBLIC LAW 114–26—JUNE 29, 2015
    TITLE I—TRADE PROMOTION AUTHORITY

    “[…]SEC. 103. TRADE AGREEMENTS AUTHORITY.
    19 USC 4202.
    (a) AGREEMENTS REGARDING TARIFF BARRIERS.—
    (1) IN GENERAL.—Whenever the President determines that one or more existing duties or other import restrictions of any foreign country or the United States are unduly burdening and restricting the foreign trade of the United States and that the purposes, policies, priorities, and objectives of this title will be promoted thereby, the President—
    (A) may enter into trade agreements with foreign countries before—
    (i) July 1, 2018; or
    (ii) July 1, 2021, if trade authorities procedures are extended under subsection (c); and (B) may, subject to paragraphs (2) and (3), proclaim (i) such modification or continuance of any existing
    duty,
    (ii) such continuance of existing duty free or excise treatment, or
    (iii) such additional duties, as the President determines to be required or appropriate to carry out any such trade agreement.
    Substantial modifications to, or substantial additional provisions of, a trade agreement entered into after July 1, 2018, or July 1, 2021, if trade authorities procedures are extended under subsection (c), shall not be eligible for approval under this title.
    (2) NOTIFICATION.—The President shall notify Congress of the President’s intention to enter into an agreement under this subsection.
    (3) LIMITATIONS.—No proclamation may be made under paragraph (1) that—
    (A) reduces any rate of duty (other than a rate of duty that does not exceed 5 percent ad valorem on the date of the enactment of this Act) to a rate of duty which is less than 50 percent of the rate of such duty that applies on such date of enactment;
    (B) reduces the rate of duty below that applicable under the Uruguay Round Agreements or a successor agreement, on any import sensitive agricultural product;
    or
    (C) increases any rate of duty above the rate that applied on the date of the enactment of this Act.[…]”

    I am sure Congress and Obummer and the CoC are pounding their heads against the wall because this law allows Trump to rip up all their hard work over the last four decades or more.

    Like

  37. Bendix says:

    I was told by someone who was formerly involved in the automobile sales business, and some of his family still is, that you don’t want to buy a car that was assembled in Mexico if there is a choice.
    I think it was Volkswagen in particular he mentioned.

    Like

    • G. Combs says:

      My 1992 Dodge was assembled in Mexico. My contract with the auto dealer stated I took it to my mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection BEFORE I paid for it.

      My mechanic found a ton of things wrong with the truck and we made the dealer fix every single one before it was re-inspected, OKed and paid for.

      I recommend doing the same with ANY vehicle you decide to purchase whether new or used.

      Like

  38. Jenny R. says:

    Meanwhile, in case this hasn’t been mentioned already, the Canadian PM’s recently acquired reputation in Asia is already paying some dividends:
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/vicente-fox-to-trudeau-don-t-be-judas-on-nafta-1.3684799

    I think we should encourage this sort of thinking amongst our “friendly neighbors”.

    Like

  39. bkrg2 says:

    The assembly of foreign components in Mexico and Canada extends beyond automobiles. Many food products and ingredients are made outside the USA (lower “world prices” for commodities). Then blended with higher US priced commodities so they can still be labeled as “Made in USA”.
    I’m sure similar ‘rules of origin” workarounds are happening in every industry.

    This is a very easy problem to fix if you take a side of “USA only” versus “Globalist”. Almost impossible to solve if you try to make both sides happy. I’d caution those who equate “100% made in USA for everything” to mean “America First” to be careful.

    Most industries are dominated by a few companies. And all those companies have operations spread across the globe. And, a huge portion of these companies are publicly traded. Therefore, all will be motivated by profits. Ultimately, it’s impossible to source 100% of the materials in USA for 100% of our domestic consumption.

    AND, as long as we have politicians selling votes to companies for cash, they will only vote “America First” when the donor’s goal are (accidentally) aligned.

    This is what makes Team Trump truly a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. A team of killer wolverines & billionaires who don’t need the special interest bribes. Fortunately, team Trump is looking to fix horrible deals made over the past decades to at least bring some balance (and jobs) back to America. As we are seeing, this won’t be easy AND we won’t win every battle. As Sundance has said a thousand times “there are TRILLIONS at stake”.

    And… Team Trump is working on another way to grow the US economy. I don’t recall reading this anywhere… Improving conditions in poor and/or mismanaged countries makes the global economic pie bigger (think N Korea, most of Africa & Middle East, Venezuela, etc.). This give USA an additional share of opportunities for both Services and Goods. These will take longer, but Trump is sowing the seeds now – just listen to any of his/Rex speeches about these countries and some of the deals already cut.

    Moral: Don’t dwell on the the small stuff (% of US content in Automobiles). Look at getting our “fair slice” of a bigger pie.

    Team Trump got this & All will be well.

    Like

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