Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting – Bulk Probable Cause Affidavit – Issued By Justice Of The Peace: Walter Pete Peterson

Below is the “fill in the blank” PCA (Probable Cause Affidavit) used by Waco PD in their arrest of 170 Motorcycle Club members following the Waco “Twin Peaks” shooting:

All 170 people arrested are held on $1,000,000.00 bond.  More on Jo’P Walter Pete Peterson HERE – Note he is not a judge, nor does he have any law degree.  He is a retired former member of the Texas Dept. Of Public Safety (30 years).

waco twin peaks from Don Carlos

(click image to enlarge – note the evidence {shell casing} markers on the ground next to the dark SUV on the left side of the image – SWAT firing position? – Again, look at the downrange backdrop – 18 people shot/wounded, 9 killed.)

Also, here is another video of the interim press conference given by Waco PD W. Patrick Swanton at 6:56pm Sunday (5/17/15) approximately six and a half hours after the shooting took place.

How/why could/would a spokesperson get so many facts wrong?

Factual inaccuracies Swanton continued to assert, which are even refuted within the PCA used by his own department.  The PCA’s were issued on 5/18/15.  Swanton stood by -repeatedly- his faulted assertions until 5/20/15.

14 of 22 armed officers (pre-staged in the area) took part in the shooting; they are now on customary administrative duty.   We wonder:

  • Why didn’t the other 8 officers shoot?
  • What happened to the “rookie” officer?
  • Who was the Asst. Police Chief (Swanton claimed was on scene)?

Previous Discussion Threads:

♦ Waco Research Thread 1 – The initial Shooting As Reported
♦ Waco Research Thread 2 – LEO Affidavits Inconsistent With Spokesperson Claims
♦ Waco Research Thread 3 – The Waco Police Narrative Continues To Evolve
♦ Waco Research Thread 4 – CCTV Video Refutes Original 3 Days of Police Claims
♦ Waco Research Thread 5 – Listen to the Waco PD Radio Traffic
♦ Waco Research Thread 6 – 14 Officers Were Shooting – Report: “Thousands of rounds”
♦ Waco Research Thread 7 –  Washington Post eye-witness account

Waco 25 cop vehicle search

“Top Men – Yep, Top Men” (image link)

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This entry was posted in 4th Amendment, 6th Amendment, Abusive Cops, Agitprop, Conspiracy ?, Death Threats, media bias, Police action, propaganda, Waco - Twin Peaks. Bookmark the permalink.

226 Responses to Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting – Bulk Probable Cause Affidavit – Issued By Justice Of The Peace: Walter Pete Peterson

  1. Tonawanda says:

    What is immediately apparent and not surprising is that (at least in this case) there is no probable cause to believe this particular individual committed a crime.

    Like

    • doodahdaze says:

      It seems to be that they were wearing their club patch of Bandido or Cossack. It is some kind of conspiracy crime. Sort of kinda. I think.

      Like

      • Tonawanda says:

        I am just wondering, what is it that Ronald Warren did specifically to warrant these charges? There is zero (that I am seeing). Conclusory statements are not factual allegations. Not that it is enough by any means, but there is not even an allegation he was wearing a patch.

        Like

      • Tonawanda says:

        Two questions about conspiracy.
        A conspiracy by two or more opposing factions? Simultaneous and identical conspiracies, all charged (if I understand this) in identical language? Remarkable . . . .
        And, a conspiracy which starts out with a fight or a scuffle? Normally, a melee which starts out with a fight or a scuffle would not be thought of as anything other than a spontaneous, non-conspiratorial event.
        If the genesis of the brawl was a planned fight or scuffle, seems like there ought to be a specific fact or set of facts explicitly indicating this aspect of the conspiracy.

        Liked by 4 people

        • BobNoxious says:

          Here is the specific TX statute relating to Organized Crime…

          http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.71.htm

          It is my understanding they have been charged under Section 71.02(a)(1)

          Sec. 71.02. ENGAGING IN ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.
          (a) A person commits an offense if, with the intent to establish, maintain, or participate in a combination or in the profits of a combination or as a member of a criminal street gang, the person commits or conspires to commit one or more of the following:
          (1)… capital murder…

          Liked by 1 person

          • Just Sayin says:

            Sorry. Doesn’t fit. Please see discussion between archer and me later in the thread.

            Like

            • BobNoxious says:

              Well, I’m sorry you feel that way but that’s the law they were charged under.

              As for why the couldn’t have arrested anyone before the shooting… just being part of a gang isn’t a crime. That only becomes relevant once an underlying crime has been committed. If you’d read the statute you might understand it a little better.

              Like

        • doodahdaze says:

          3 or more people.

          Like

      • archer52 says:

        which is why they charged everyone with RICO. The basis of the statute is simple. You and I and others are in a gang, acting in an organized manner in an effort to further the gang, which we all benefit from. If I kill someone- you can get charged. If you rob someone, I can get charged. That is the only way you can break up and cripple an organized crime group.

        Like

        • Tonawanda says:

          “As a member of a criminal street gang did commit or conspired to commit” named crimes.
          Mr. Warren is alleged to have worn a “sign or symbol” of a criminal street gang identifying his membership, but it is not alleged factually what the sign or symbol was, or if it was Cossack or Bandido or the Christian group or the law enforcement group.

          He either committed an actual crime or conspired to commit the crime, it is alleged. There are zero facts supporting this allegation, unless there is a legal presumption in Texas that wearing a sign or symbol of gang membership while in proximity to the commission of a crime permits the inference that the wearer was involved in a conspiracy.

          The best which can be said is that shoddiness is good enough for the Texas judge and Texas LE.

          But when mass arrests take place, all the more reason to provide probable cause for each particular person arrested.

          True, the Constitution is one big giant tedious drag on LE, but the Constitution is not quite dead yet.

          Liked by 5 people

          • BobNoxious says:

            The underlying crime they are alleged to have conspired to committ while members of a gang is capital murder. That’s is how it has been charged anyway.

            Like

          • John Galt says:

            “Peterson is registered to take an 80-hour training course for new justices, and he said he expects to learn a lot on the job.”

            Relax, Peterson is learning about the Constitution — on the job.

            Like

          • everlastingphelps says:

            Right. The elements of criminal conspiracy is:

            An agreement between the conspirators for one or more in the conspiracy to commit a felony
            and
            An affirmative action by each member of the conspiracy to further the felony.

            If your buddy says, “I’m gonna smoke that bastard around the corner” and you say “I’ll drive the getaway car” and then actually go get in the car, that’s an agreement and an affirmative action. If you don’t actually get into the car, then it’s not a conspiracy.

            As near as I can tell here, all they have for an affirmative action is, “they were there.” I sure as hell doubt that they can ever prove that anyone knew anything about an agreement to actually commit a felony by anyone, especially the Cossaks (in any of the narratives we’ve seen.)

            Like

            • That’s a great example you gave us.
              Thanks.. I would add, it would, could be easily manipulated @ crime scene, & during evidence gathering,(investigation,) if both sides abide by the truth, the truth comes forth, rarely does this ever happen, if ever.. I use to take pleasure in the thought that LE & the U.S. judicial system was a most proper ( truthful ) authority, as we all can clearly see, this seems to be anything but true.

              Like

        • partyzantski says:

          This is why RICO needs to be applied to political parties.

          Liked by 8 people

      • Sassy says:

        Yet Dorian Johnson didn’t do anything.

        Liked by 1 person

  2. Tonawanda says:

    And it is astonishing that (apparently) not one of those held has brought a habeas corpus petition in state and then (if necessary) federal court. The petitions are very simple and could be a hand written request by the arrested themselves, although it is (again) astonishing there are not a dozen legal organizations doing this for free.

    Liked by 4 people

    • doodahdaze says:

      The charges seem vague. It is like take your pick of murder, aggravated assault, or capital murder? Maybe this and maybe that?

      Like

    • John Galt says:

      Based on news reports, many of them have requested, but have not been provided an attorney. Mass incarceration based on fill in the blank affidavit, astronomical bail, not provided with counsel upon request even after completion of financial affidavit, public expression of police frustration that incarcerated bikers are not cooperating with police to prove their innocence — sounds like a railroad.

      Liked by 5 people

      • michellc says:

        How is that constitutional to not provide them an attorney?

        Liked by 3 people

        • John Galt says:

          Good question.

          Liked by 1 person

        • Mrs. Carifidy says:

          Well, it’s not Constitutional; however repugnant a one percenter motorcycle club is, they are entitled to representation. I guess in the minds of Joe and Jane Citizen, all the police shootings fostering the ‘stand with Blue’ sentiment have swept that inconvenient distinction of law under the carpet of get the thugs off the streets at any cost.

          Like

        • BobNoxious says:

          If the arrested person has requested an attorney and stated that they do not want to answer questions until an attorney is present then they cannot be questioned or interrogated by police… The police can still hold them if they have justification to do so; they just cannot question the arrestee until a lawyer is present.

          Liked by 2 people

        • I have sat in jail for quit a while before seeing a public defender. It’s not unusual.

          Like

      • Sassy says:

        Seems like anyone in the vicinity of the “peaceful protests” in Ferguson or Baltimore who resembled the rioters/arsonists or who wore the same “colors” or carried the same kinds of signs (or who received the same checks?) could be charged with conspiracy. Oh, wait–the rioters and arsonists themselves weren’t even charged. Nevermind.

        Liked by 6 people

        • doodahdaze says:

          Right like crips and bloods wearing blue and red or having a tatoo. Seems to say that Texas has “deemed” Cossacks and Bandidos “criminal organizations” so they can arrest them all on a whim.

          Like

      • manickernel says:

        If 170 people all ask for public defenders in a town like that…. Do we know that those who do have their own attorney have been refused access?

        Like

        • BobNoxious says:

          We know about 75-85 have qualified as indigent but the county only has 29 1st degree felony qualified appointees/public defenders so they’ve put a call out to neighboring counties for qualified attorneys to be appointed to those that need one.

          Liked by 1 person

  3. Arkindole says:

    Blue Glove boy image caption “A law enforcement officer uses a rifle to break the window of a vehicle in the parking lot…” Nice…Very Nice. No one has anything else to bash the window? No leos have a breaching shotgun (870ish) anywhere in the vehicles? And, if that was the firing position near the SUV, and those are a half mag or so of rounds on the ground, and they used a reflex sight ala blue glove boy, then someone has a whole bunch of ‘splainin to do. I’m still wondering why there were so many head shots (and what the cals were). CYA maddness over there, I’m suspecting.

    Like

    • lorac says:

      There seems to be the remnants of a yellow “police line do not cross” tape (not sure what you call it) tied to the windshield wiper – so wouldn’t this be after the fact….?

      Like

      • oldiadguy says:

        Yes it was after the fact and apparently during the crime scene processing. Look at the photo carefully, especially the individuals present. Interesting stuff in that photo.

        Like

        • Tonawanda says:

          Now you got my curiosity …. elaborate?

          Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            How many of the individuals in the photo were in uniforms and what kind? (Hint – Two were wearing green shirts similar to the shirts Waco Swat was wearing.) What exactly were the officer(s) doing in that photo? Why are they trying to enter that vehicle? Who did that rifle belong to? (Hint – If that light mounted on the forearm of the rifle is what I believe it to be, it is very expensive.)

            Why did none of the officers present think the actions the officer with the rifle were inappropriate and stop him? The one with the rifle was wearing gloves, meaning he was trying to either preserve evidence or to protect himself from exposure to blood. Does he look like he is trying to preserve evidence? Apparently these guys were among the officers that were processing that scene. How professional do they appear?

            After viewing the actions these officers took to gain entry to a vehicle, do you have faith that the scene was professionally processed?

            Take Care

            Liked by 2 people

            • Tonawanda says:

              TY … interesting insights (I never would have thought of). Like so much else in this case, it calls for an explanation. I really cannot remember so much oddness in a case reported the way this has been.

              Liked by 1 person

            • lovely says:

              It looks like it could be the same attachment as you posted, good eye!

              Good idea to use a rifle? No one stopped him? Just amazing.

              It also appears from the photo that the window has already been shattered but has not fallen out, what appears to be a bullet hole can be seen in the lower right hand of the window which is about to be broken out. So this window would be the easiest to breach.

              Was the bullet hole and window already photographed and cataloged? Were they looking for the bullet ? breaking the shattered window out so the vehicle could be towed ?

              The gloves I am willing to give a pass on, people are odd, some wear gloves for the strangest things, he may just be very cautious because it was a bloody scene. Maybe they are thinking that there is a bullet in there with blood on it or there was blood on the window. Maybe he was going to process the interior and should be wearing gloves.

              Why no safety glasses when you are inches away from glass that is about to be shattered? Maybe they expected it to just fold given the already compromised structure of the window, it looks like he is applying pressure not giving it a jolt.

              Also it looks like the police tape was tied around the windshield wiper, I saw at least 2 bikes with police tape tied around just one handle bar I suspect the tape was to designate high priority vehicles/bikes.

              Without context and a timeframe it is hard to make much sense of the photo other than to drop my jaw at the use of a rifle as a window breaker.

              Like

              • oldiadguy says:

                If that light and attachment was the same as the one in the photo, then he was using a rifle that had an eight hundred dollar light system on it as a window smasher. With that expensive of a light and mount, my guess that the rifle was assigned to one of the two Swat officers in the background.

                Don’t the Waco police cars have tire irons?

                I’m not sure if that is a bullet hole in the lower right side of the window. Something about it just doesn’t look right. It might be the location where they first tried to smash the window with the muzzle of the AR. With all the craziness going on with this case/investigation anything is possible.

                I agree about the crime scene tape marking priority vehicles. I’m interested about their relevance to the case. I would also curious about the location of the vehicle.

                Liked by 1 person

    • John Galt says:

      “No one has anything else to bash the window?”

      He should have bashed the window with his head. The rifle might have suffered damage.

      Like

    • John Galt says:

      ““A law enforcement officer uses a rifle to break the window of a vehicle in the parking lot…” Nice…Very Nice.”

      That’s how they collect and preserve evidence in Waco. I could have opened the door in less than a minute without any damage.

      Like

    • nyetneetot says:

      ““A law enforcement officer uses a rifle to break the window of a vehicle in the parking lot…”

      Anyone else wondering if this LEO locked his keys in his own vehicle since the “bad guys” were all on motorcycles?

      Like

  4. lorac says:

    Here’s a short video someone took shortly after shooting – you can see bodies lying about, not yet covered.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11614117/Nearly-200-held-over-Texas-biker-shootout.html

    Liked by 1 person

    • lorac says:

      It looks like it was taken by someone in the other restaurant. The bodies are almost in a line across the screen, then there is a row of cars running parallel to the bodies, then motorcycles, then the Twin Peaks restaurant. I think these are the dead, but maybe they were just told to lie down….?

      Liked by 1 person

  5. jim says:

    I thought the bond was a million dollars, with 6 zeros.

    Liked by 1 person

    • lovely says:

      Just a typo. I make my own fair share 🙂

      Like

    • I was about to question that. These guys should have held their gathering in Florida. Attempted murder only gets a 35k bond.

      Like

    • Leon says:

      yes, the bonds are a million dollars because the judge stated “I’m going to make an example…” which clearly violates all 107 members Constitutional rights. Amendment VIII of the Constitution of the United States reads “Excessive bail shall not be requires, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”
      Also Swanton said that reinforcements were on their way to retaliate…BS, the ambush started after 12 noon, the COC meeting wasn’t scheduled to start until 1:00pm, that’s what they were coming to. None of the bikers testimonies will mean shit against lying Law Enforcement. He already threw terminology and statements out that are going to be stated as facts and regardless if 100% of the bikers and Independents who were going to attend just a COC meeting, they will not be heard. LE wants everyone to believe this was a meeting for a turf war, nothing else.

      Like

  6. Tonawanda says:

    We are still in the dark about what actually took place leading to the deaths and injuries.
    But more easily resolved ought to be the legality of the mass arrests. What is alleged with respect to each arrested individual?
    Highly disturbing is the suggestion by the DA (if I got this correctly) that the incarcerations are justified by a failure to cooperate with authorities.
    Granted, the circumstances facing the police were challenging, or at least we can presume as much from what we know.
    Challenging circumstances do not justify mass arrests,and people are justified in wondering if other motivations are involved (such as molding the narrative to obscure the truth).
    I am concerned that media-supported mass arrests will become the new normal, just as restrictions on free speech and media condemnations of free speech are the new normal.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Monroe says:

      Why mass arrests for this group but not for the rioting masses in the other cities? At least these bikers were civil while being processed and 3 even came back and turned themselves in when they learned about being released in error.

      Most troubling is the disparity in how one group is treated versus another group.

      One group is blatantly committing crimes on video and it is excused. Another group is “questionably” treated based on appearance (biker colors).

      This is most disturbing.

      Liked by 7 people

      • art tart says:

        Monroe ~ + Infinity. Excellent analogy.

        Liked by 1 person

        • OTOH, this IS in Texas. They are a bit harsher with those considered to be criminals. Witness the liberals’ oft-repeated mentions of capital punishment stats from Texas.

          Like

          • art tart says:

            hi InvestingforOne ~ ya gotta love Texas. I live in Conservative N. La. & am about 40 miles from the Tx. line. You’re right, the liberals hate the capital punishment stats from Tx. but I fully support their aggressive use of the death pentalty. I hate to hear liberals whine, “it’s cruel/unusal punishment” but the criminals that got the death sentence have had countless years more of life thhrough appeals/visits from family members, much more than their victims got.

            As for TP/bikers/LE, what a cluster, I look forward to hearing from the bikers Attorney’s. I have enjoyed reading all the contributions/exchanges & the work the treepers have done providing excellent information on the case.

            Liked by 1 person

      • Dixie says:

        Makes one wonder if a riot took place in Texas like it has in other places, what the reaction would be……perhaps this is a message from Texas to the rest of the country….don’t come here and mess with us? The bikers an unfortunate example?

        Like

        • Jett Black says:

          Yes, at least for this part of Texas, but at least half of the cities there would probably wind up looking more like B’more than Waco. Houston has a huge, dependent black and illegal immigrant population. Austin is keeping it weird and well to the left. San Antonio or El Paso might not tolerate black or white gang misbehavior, but it hispanics rose up, LLE would be overwhelmed in very short order. Not sure where Dallas/Ft. Worth stand, but they used to be more conservative, more similar culturally to Waco.

          Like

        • Could very well be part of the motivation. Witness the generally positive public reaction to the Garland TX killings of the IS guys.

          Like

  7. joshua says:

    the tone here seems like trying to make a Courtland MS deal out of this gang violence. byw, a Justice of the Peace in Texas does not require a law degree….it is an elective position…does not make a person incompetent in the laws that a JP court is authorized to adjudicate. In fact, many “lawyers” are unprepared to manage cases other than to argue cases. I get the impression somewhat that there are elements of a witchhunt mindset rather than merely following information going on…hope I am wrong.

    Like

    • John Galt says:

      The fact that they are using a “fill in the blank” probable cause affidavit and “unarresting” people indicates gross incompetence and/or wholesale disregard of law. I get the impression that you are cheerleading for cops based on the theory of “cops good” and “bikers bad” rather than following the information. I hope I am wrong.

      Like

      • Tonawanda says:

        I don’t know about Texas, but I do know fill-in-the-blank affidavits have been judicially condemned elsewhere, for reasons which seem obvious.

        When the fill-in-the-blank affidavit using identical vague language applies to the arrest of 170 individuals under circumstances such as Waco, a prudent magistrate would have to assume the system is being gamed, and send back LE to do a more particularized job.

        Sometimes the police are unfairly maligned, such as Ferguson. Sometimes they are not.
        What the spokesman for the police said has raised the questions.

        Liked by 2 people

      • joshua says:

        not cheerleading anyone….almost ALL legal documents use standard forms and language…fill in the blanks is done on computers where they are dealing with onsey and twosy individuals…in this case, I suspect dealing with 170 at the same time with everything else including potential personal and community danger should allow some slack to get cut. This is NOT a large Urban police dept. I just feel that the forum demeanor is kinda like the Courtland MS deal got when everyone felt a need to pile on to minutia rather than following logic and process instead of injecting personal feelings and opinions driven emotionally. Hey, I am just one of the posters who follows closely and who thinks this forum site is the main source of information in the USA right now…..

        Liked by 2 people

        • James F says:

          Where is the DOJ to help out with an overburdened system? I remember DOJ hired hundreds of lawyers, spending millions of dollars, for the illegal immigrant swarm so they could be quickly processed.

          Like

          • James F says:

            And they are still at it. This story is from just last week.

            But many of the thousands who entered through Mexico on foot prior to Obama’s refugee/parole initiative still face immigration court proceedings and most don’t have lawyers. That’s why the administration is investing $2 million to hire attorneys for the new arrivals. The money will flow through a special program, Justice AmeriCorps, launched by the Department of Justice (DOJ) Executive Office for Immigration Review (EOIR) last summer.
            http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2015/05/u-s-to-spend-2-mil-on-attorneys-for-illegal-alien-minors/

            Like

          • lovely says:

            Just wait for it. Unless Texas is holding them off.

            McLennan County District Attorney Abel Reyna also can enlist the help of prosecutors and investigators with the state attorney general’s office, other counties and the federal government, Choate said

            I imagine the DOJ is salivating at having a hand at going after guys who are tattooed with the SS logo and some of whom sport a swastika on their body and on their vest.

            Like

          • smiley says:

            http://kxan.com/2015/05/19/intelligence-firm-thinks-waco-shooting-will-spur-federal-reaction/
            May 19, 2015
            Intelligence Firm Thinks Waco Shooting Will Spur Federal Reaction
            “I don’t think that the biker gangs realize that…this event has woken a sleeping giant in Washington and as a result…you’ll have a tremendous amount of national focus on these organizations now…
            Reaction will likely extend to pressure from the Department of Justice, Homeland Security, FBI and ATF.”

            Like

            • John Galt says:

              The feds have been all over the bikers for years, but they might use it to try and boondoggle additional funds.

              Liked by 2 people

              • michellc says:

                One thing I’m learning is that not all bikers are criminals, yet some seem fine to label all arrested and killed as criminals.
                How many of us have been at tea party gatherings or even the local American Legion and asked who had a criminal record?
                I find the entire thing very concerning and find the opinions of what happened even more concerning.
                Just because these bikers went to a meeting did not mean they were there to mingle with criminals or participate in criminal activity.

                Liked by 1 person

                • michellc says:

                  That was supposed to be a reply to your post above John Galt.

                  Like

                • archer52 says:

                  Long ways away from Tea Party to bikers. If the Tea Party started shooting, murdering, extorting and trafficking in large scale for years, they would be bikers.

                  But they won’t.

                  Two separate issues. There is the criminal side and the political side. The agents who are sent out to “troll” Tea Party are sent out by political hacks. Political hacks don’t care about bikers. They care about elections.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • michellc says:

                  I’ve learned a lot the past few days researching bikers and you’re labeling all bikers under one flag. Not all biker groups and not all bikers are shooting, murdering, extorting or trafficking.

                  I’ve found FB pages of some of these people arrested and they are no different than I would assume most of us are. Pictures of their kids, grandkids, backyard bbqs and posts about stopping amnesty, Obama, tea party members, etc. Some of them it’s even hard to find that they are members of biker clubs.

                  So you label all bikers criminals, someone else can label all tea party members as criminals. Someone else can label all gun owners as criminals. Not anywhere near as far apart as you claim.

                  So let’s see your proof that all bikers or even all biker groups are involved in criminal activity.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • smiley says:

                  michellc…(replies aren’t lining up)..I’m agreeing with you regarding what this could be leading to, setting precedent for.
                  and not just the labeling as “criminals”.
                  but also where old-fashioned fundamental preaching in a church could be construed as “hate crimes”.
                  imo, its also a smack down on gun ownership & exmilitary using “biker gangs” as the means.

                  there was a time in another country over in EU during the 20th century where most of its citizens laughed at the few who tried to warn of what was coming.
                  they were called “good germans”.

                  Like

                • smiley says:

                  don’t mean to offend/insult anyone here.
                  many smart/informed/competent etc commenters.
                  but, imho, there’s some troubling “rationalizing” in some of the comments.

                  Like

                • michellc says:

                  Anyone who is conservative should know who the media is and even if they always believe LE, the reaction of the media on this should have them taking pause.

                  Like

                • smiley says:

                  michellc: an article you ( and maybe others) might find interesting…a bit long…but pertinent as to media bias & purposely obscuring facts; faulty “witness accounts” taken as “fact”; and how LE is being manipulated etc.

                  ( and I’m seeing another troubling outcome from these Ferguson-type incidents, and now Waco : namely, how conservatives are becoming DIVIDED on their respective opinions re LE in this country.)

                  http://www.nationalinterest.org/feature/what-the-ferguson-report-really-exposed-12417
                  What The Ferguson report Really Exposed
                  March 13, 2015

                  Liked by 1 person

                • smiley says:

                  yes it is.

                  Like

                • Michellc, it’s no secret that the majority of crimes committed by bikers are committed by the self-proclaimed “One Percenters”.

                  Unlike the recreational riders who are (often) white collar professionals seeking weekend relaxation (Harley’s ain’t cheap), returned military veterans, or just average “thrill-seekers”, the “One Percenters” form a criminal :inner cirle” who have assumed leadership roles in many “MCs” and use their power as a means to pursue various illegal enterprises. Much the same way that the current occupant of the White House has done.

                  Liked by 1 person

                • Scott Spencer says:

                  Exactly right.. I’m a rider, I’m a vet, I don’t ride in a 1% mc. Ditto on the WH statement as well..

                  Like

                • Sharon says:

                  https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/05/25/waco-twin-peaks-shooting-bulk-probable-cause-affidavit-issued-by-justice-of-the-peace-walter-pete-peterson/comment-page-1/#comment-1441209

                  If the Tea Party started shooting, murdering, extorting and trafficking in large scale for years, they would be bikers.

                  Again with the generalizations and triangulation.

                  Like

                • smiley says:

                  Sharon…just came across a bizarre article that suggests Cossacks might possibly be linked to notorious Russian biker gang, Night Wolves…don’t know whether to post the article, or not…

                  Like

                • EclecticAK says:

                  Don’t, the Cossacks refered to in that article are an Russian Club not affiliated with the Texas Cossacks originally founded back around 1969. That article is just a weird bit of Russian Federation Putin propaganda……

                  Like

                • smiley says:

                  EclecticAK…..ok…..seeing lots of articles about this, actually, all based on the same weird “report”.
                  very bizarre.
                  thanks.

                  Like

                • EclecticAK says:

                  When I first came across a link to that a based on a secret intelligence report it took me to Al-Jezzerah or whatever that Middle Eastern newz is called…..

                  Like

                • EclecticAK says:

                  One of the entertaining parts of the story tells how the Obama Oligrachy was just reacting to the perceived existenshal threat of the Cossacks and therefor had Homeland Security take them out. The Night Wolves MC have essentialy morphed into a Putin militia of Russian Nationalists who put on big Rally/Light show/Rock Concert extravaganzas for the common people…..

                  Like

                • smiley says:

                  that’s not exactly how I read it.
                  what I read did not sound that ridiculous or comical.
                  anything’s possible these days.
                  but to post the article could distract from legitimate debate, if the info in the article is completely unfounded.

                  Like

                • smiley says:

                  well, I did not read about this at that link…
                  the so-called “intelligence report” comes out of Russia, as you probably know.

                  Like

                • smiley says:

                  “like”

                  Like

                • smiley says:

                  my “like” is sposed to be to michellc’s post

                  Like

              • pspsst says:

                Feds are desperate for money, this is true. Apparently tax filings in April netted a large deficit in May. $1m bail per American biker on trumped up charges at Twin Peaks ought to suffice nicely. Kill two birds and confiscate weapons. The LE’s went in like hungry dogs searching for weapons. Only 6 hours after the incident some spokesperson was already reading off his advanced prepared communique about a bathroom brawl and bar fist fight. Twin Peaks video did not substantiate any of it.

                I’m starting to laugh at the media reporting that police found weapons in a bag of Frito-Lays and cornstarch. Where’s the proof? We’ll never know. LE had to come up with some excuse to explain to other patrons in the bar why they didn’t see guns.

                Like

                • joshua says:

                  “bail” is NOT income…it is merely insurance that the perp will show up in court. and like any of the bikers HAS a million bucks anyway…..not a good argument.

                  Like

                • pspsst says:

                  Post a million and escape. Out of 170, who cares if a few make bail and leave town? Especially if LE know they’re harmless. I know, I know, we’re cheerleading or something silly because apparently it’s Rah-Rah to highlight LEs are mass producing criminal arrests based on a template downloaded from MS Windows for $2, of apparently bikers whom have not proven to belong to the 1%MC, nor pre-dominantly Bandido MCs. I jest about the Microsoft template.

                  Like

                • pspsst says:

                  And the confiscation of guns, including breaking windows of cars with expensive cross-hair rifles belonging to people who are innocent until proven guilty is a trifle too, not amounting to a hill of beans.

                  Like

              • Maybe there is a subcommittee hearing in DC relating to funding renewal? That has happened before. You know, bring the affected agency into the news spotlight to show how important and $$$-worthy they are.

                Like

      • BobNoxious says:

        It really doesn’t indicate that..

        This is a unique situation and based on how they are charging it a “fill in the blank affidavit” is entirely appropriate.

        Like

  8. jim says:

    I am asking about the bond because 9 zeros were used above. “All 170 people arrested are held on $1,000,000,000 bond.” That is a billion dollars. Bill Gates sized money.

    Like

  9. archer52 says:

    As I pointed out in a reply. This is why they charged everyone with RICO. The statute was created to attack organized crime. The concept is simple and addresses how organized crime works. If you have a ball of worms, all working together to further the end goal of all the worms, you cannot always say “this guy did this to gain that, and this guy did that to gain this”. No way you can sort that out physically or legally.

    So, the method of RICO is this; and allow me to use TCTH gang as an example. “We identify the TCTH gang as a criminal organization by a legal definition. “Four or more people working together as an organization in a manner that furthers that organization and benefits the members.” Think Mafia for a moment. You have Sundance as the leader, but he doesn’t really do anything except give orders. However, those orders are carried out by Monroe, Jim and Lorac, plus hundreds of others. Sundance benefits from the end result of those orders, as does Monroe- who robs trucks coming from the JFK terminal, Jiim who traffics in narcotics, and Lorac- who is the stone cold contract killer “Sammy the Bull” who kills anyone who causes the organization trouble.

    At some point the money made from these efforts moves through the organization benefiting everyone. Sundance didn’t push drugs, but his house was built with the drug money. Monroe doesn’t kill anyone but the death of a driver encourages others to comply with his truck hijacking scheme.

    The point here is RICO is just a “hold charge” until the forensics and other evidence is gathered and underlying charges will be filed. Sometimes the State has to use means and methods of what appears to be extreme in order to reply to an extreme event such as this.

    Ask yourself this question- You pay the police to solve crimes. How would you handle it if you were in charge?

    We have murder, aggravated battery, aggravated assault, attempted murder, felony misuse of firearms, not to mention some kind of felony menacing involving the innocent people there- (of whom someday may be you and your family and I’m thinking you would demand the police “do something”). The police have two hundred victims/witnesses/suspects, many of whom have a history of fleeing, not cooperating with police (that anti-authority is cool thing), and intimidating or killing witnesses. They have thousands of items of evidences; guns, spent casings, video, forensics, DNA, etc.

    When it sorts out they will file underlying charges such as murder, attempted murder, agg batt and felony firearms crimes. If the prosecutor and the lead investigators are competent, they will lay out each piece of evidence linked to each identified suspect.

    It will go like this:The 9mm Glock, serial number, US45670, recovered in a bag of Doritos located twenty feet from the shooting at the NE corner of the parking lot under a table, (see forensic report #2095 supporting photos #12, 13, 15) has Sundance’s DNA on it, and his partial fingerprint on round in the mag. (See forensic report #34987, supporting photos #45 #46 #47).

    {and on a side note, the police until this point never had his fingerprints or DNA on file because he never got his hands dirty or was arrested before- the no criminal history meme. Historical cases made be made now that it is in the system.}

    Five spent casing recovered from the parking lot match the striker imprints from that Glock (see forensic report # 5609 and supporting photos #567 and #568.), showing the gun was fired in the parking lot at that time. Two rounds were recovered, one in the body of a Cossack group leader “Ratface McGuff” who died from gunshot injuries (see medical report # 78564). The other recovered from a 2008 Ford pickup, VIN number xXxx, parked in the Don Carlos parking lot located in the SW portion of the parking lot (see forensic report #67895, supporting photos #496, 497, 498).

    Waco PD officer McGruff was taking cover behind that vehicle, according to his statement dated XX/XX/XXXX. Ofc McGruff, who was on duty at that time as a patrolman, stated he observed a person fitting the description of Sundance point his weapon at a rival member and pull the trigger then point the weapon in his direction at which point he took cover behind the truck. Video taken of the scene shows Sundance sitting at the place just prior to the gunfight and he was arrested trying to flee the scene by Waco PD.

    Now the DA will march the defense attorney into the room where all the evidence is located, and then say “how many years does your client want to take?” At which point, if the defense attorney is smart, and so is his client, he will say “And if he cooperates, how many years less will he take?” That is RICO.

    Can’t do any of that without doing what you are seeing developing now. It is a HUGE cluster and will take months to sort out. Those bikers wanted to play bad ass, got caught. Now they sit- hopefully for a while. Remember, this was a big incident, and everybody, for once, was caught at the scene.

    As long as they are locked up, they can’t kill anyone, seek revenge, intimidate witnesses, run and hide, and when the light slowly goes on in their brains, you may find some of them going “uh, look maybe I CAN help..”

    Liked by 4 people

    • John Galt says:

      I think that what will happen is that about 150 bikers will collect millions of dollars in 1983 actions.

      Liked by 2 people

      • archer52 says:

        I’m betting no civil jury or civil judge will touch it. There are times when an action reaches beyond justice or law. This is one of those times.

        Sure they can file, see you in a dozen years or longer. If the subjects arrested were not treated badly- i.e. beaten, tortured, abused- but were processed properly, they have no standing.

        This is the weight of the government. It can work for good, or abuse depending on how its applied. At some point, you have to accept that to survive as a nation we need a civil society. Allowing serious bad guys to abuse the people, the community and the society as a whole because they are careful and stonewall when caught is wrong. Nobody should be above the law. We’d be like Russia’s criminal oligarchy. Abusing RICO is when NOW and Reno during the Clinton years tried to apply it to pro-life organizations, and failed. That must always be watched and fought when it is abused.

        RICO helped break up organized crime because nothing else worked. You have to be able, as the representatives of a civil society, to fight fire with fire. Now if they arrested some guy who worked at H&R Block and was wearing cargo pants and a polo shirt while eating lunch with his kids and wife HE has a serious case!

        If the prosecutors go to the suspects, and apparently are doing so, and find they truly aren’t involved, they will be released. If the suspects are involved, or have knowledge of who is involved, and and won’t cooperate, they get to eat from the same table as the principals. You will see more than one “flip” and give up their buddies.

        Liked by 4 people

    • Tonawanda says:

      Respectfully, you are assuming as true the point of concern (if not contention). You may very well be right as to what is happening.
      But the concern is not whether the police are doing the most effective thing, it is whether they are doing the Constitutional thing. The circumstances are such to validly raise this concern. What has come from LE so far has done nothing to alleviate the concern, just the opposite.

      Liked by 4 people

    • joshua says:

      Archer….terrific! Thanks so much for a complete logical explanation of the PROCESS and the LOAD of this event on the legal system and police. This is what makes this forum OUTSTANDING, when we get an education along with a scenario that is logical and rational as we watch something this terrible unfold having to depend only on Staged Press Releases and MSM spin reportage.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Just Sayin says:

      Archer, that’s a fascinating hypothetical. Let me change it just a bit. Sundance, Monroe, Jim and Lorac are all members of a criminal outlaw biker gang. One day, Sundance gets in a tiff with his next-door-neighbor and shoots the dude. Can the police go round up Monroe, Jim and Lorac and charge them as part of the conpiracy? In other words, is ANY crime committed by a member of a criminal gang attributable to ALL members?

      Like

      • archer52 says:

        The answer is probably no. The crime must apply to the furtherance of the group, and some crimes are not part of the accepted list. In one case I worked, the gang beat up a black kid for standing on a street corner. They were oddly racist. They would deal for drugs and guns with a black criminal group, but then beat up a random black kid. We could not apply that one act to the whole. It was a separate act not linked to the furtherance of the group. Now if they were the KKK and beating black kids drove them out of a neighborhood, then yes we could have.

        That is the basic theory as I remember. Also, states have their own RICO statutes. I am not familiar with the Texas version, but will take the time to review it.

        this is Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act

        The only way the answer changes to yes is if we can prove by killing the neighbor (let’s say Sundance finds out he is cooperating with the police or something) then maybe. Murder is one of the qualifying acts. Depending on how the case is structured will decide if that charge is thrown in. In the cases I either assisted or worked, the DA makes the final decision.

        Again, right now that charge may be weak to some, but it allowed for the detention- legally- of the suspects which will give the police the ability to gather evidence- legally.

        If at some point it gets over turned, and nothing is impossible in the legal system, we’ll see some lawsuits. But I’m pretty sure in Texas they will not find may sympathetic judges. Not in this case.

        Liked by 2 people

  10. archer52 says:

    And remember, with RICO Sundance’s murder charge will be applied to Monroe and Jim because it can be argued everybody in the organization benefits from the reduction of competition by rival gangs.

    Like

    • Just Sayin says:

      So, what you’re saying is that the local smokeys could now go out an arrest every single Cossack and Bandido they happen to see and arrest them all under the same probable cause affidavit. Right?

      Like

      • archer52 says:

        IF they expand the investigation and say Just Sayin had done a murder/robber/extortion with Sundance two weeks ago AND he can be established as part of the gang that benefits then the answer is Just Sayin with get arrested, charged under RICO.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Just Sayin says:

          Which just reinforces the point that I made in A previous thread:

          IF THEY COULDN’T HAVE ARRESTED ALL THE BIKERS BEFORE THE SHOOTING STARTED (AND SAVED LIVES) THEN THEY CAN’T ARREST GUYS WHO WERE JUST THERE BUT DIDN’T TAKE PART IN THE SHOOTING. PERIOD.

          Like

        • Jett Black says:

          Can all the LEOs who planned and executed what is looking more and more like a giant, fatal CF be charged under RICO, if it’s determined that they and only they did any killing? It’s a hypothetical, but if it ain’t sauce for the goose and sauce for the gander, it’s bad sauce.

          This does look more and more like a similar general mishandling of a criminal investigation as well–very reminiscent in the incompetence and dubious motivations displayed to the JLC/Panola County, MS matter. The big difference is that there are lots and lots of survivors, in addition to 9 dead. There’s going to be a smelly storm around this for quite some time.

          Liked by 1 person

  11. lovely says:

    IMO here is the heart of the PCA.

    Nine people died as a result of the shooting between members of the biker gangs

    In Texas if you are part of the commission of a crime where a murder or death occurs, even if you didn’t do the killing you can be found culpable for that death. The affidavit lays the death of the all the bikers who were killed even by LE (if any were, and again I believe this is highly likely that some bikers died at the hand of LE) right at the feet of those bikers who partook in any part of the fighting or the actions of the gangs that lead up to the fighting and murders).

    Which is why this line is in there Did then and there, as a member of a criminal street gang, commit or conspire to commit murder, capital murder, or aggravated assault, against the laws of the State

    Over 300 weapons were found, some will be directly tied to specific acts of violence through forensics. My best guess is that every abandoned weapon will be sought to be used as proof of guilt of participation, trying in hide evidence, impeding a police investigation and so on, thereby tying anyone who abandoned a weapon into the crime of murder.

    Another very important part of the PAC is that associates of gang members are being put in the same barrel as gang members.

    Like

    • Tonawanda says:

      It would seem, then, that who actually did the killing or assaults is a vital question.

      Between video (assuming it is there), eyewitness accounts by officers on the scene recalling what they actually saw and looking at photographs, and autopsy reports, LE has to have an exact idea as to the very first question anyone asked (and continues to ask) – – who killed who?

      You charge the folks who did the actual killings and assaults, and then you can figure out who “conspired” (shared the same plan and intent) connected with those crimes.
      Are the Bandidos guilty of conspiring with the Cossacks and vice versa?

      Murder is an intentional crime (even when legally attributed to all members of a conspiracy).

      Surely LE can tell us how and why they concluded that one of the killers had the conscious objective to unlawfully cause the death of another.

      Like

      • Sassy says:

        Sure. We see this same policy at work when they deal with murders committed by Crips and Bloods. Oh, wait. Nevermind.

        Like

      • lovely says:

        Forensics will tell who killed who. Guns will be tied to both victim and perpetrator through DNA and ballistics. I don’t know how much evidence we will see of the actual murders, I am surprised that there are no cameras pointed at the parking lot but maybe there are.

        I don’t know what we will see on the interior videos but there were reported to be pools of blood inside of TP.

        All guns recovered are being run through the National Integrated Information Network (NIBIN)

        https://www.atf.gov/content/Firearms/firearms-enforcement/NIBIN

        To use NIBIN, firearms examiners or technicians enter cartridge casing evidence into the Integrated Ballistic Identification System. These images are correlated against the database. Law enforcement can search against evidence from their jurisdiction, neighboring ones, and others across the country.

        Surely LE can tell us how and why they concluded that one of the killers had the conscious objective to unlawfully cause the death of another

        I can tell you that, a biker pointed a gun and shot someone point blank. LE knows that they didn’t fire the first shot, therefore a biker did, can the biker who fired the first shot claim self defense, sure, and he probably will, he will have his day in court.

        Liked by 1 person

        • archer52 says:

          Well done. And as for video. It depends on what the LE did. If that meeting was that big and known, I will be SHOCKED that somebody wasn’t running surveillance. If they didn’t shame on them for being so unprofessional.

          Liked by 1 person

      • What if LE and Bandidos conspired to remove Bandidos’ competition, ie, Cossacks? Whether that happened or not, it would undoubtedly be nearly impossible to prove. Still, the idea has been raised in these pages.

        Like

    • art tart says:

      lovely ~ thanks for your explanation. I was thinking that those who were not tied directly to the murders/attacks w/knives/or other weapons might be freed eventually. Your scenario paints a different picture of how difficult it may become for many not directly involved but were “affilated.”

      Liked by 2 people

      • lovely says:

        Its my opinion that the bikers are in a hell of a mess. One saving grace for them is how much leniency a judge is willing to give the State in their failure to provide the bikers prompt consul. What is required for the Constitution to take a back seat to prompt consul? I haven’t a clue. I read one attorney who was asked and he responded no, the short of his answer is that it is not worth the hassle or the crappy pay.

        How many people does the State have seeking consul for the bikers who are not represented as of yet? (Maybe they all have consul by now) if not, the State is going to have to show Herculean efforts were made to obtain them attorneys. If any of them have asked for an attorney nothing they are saying now to LE can be used in court so it really is at a stand still with those without attorneys.

        Like

        • lovely says:

          Good gravy “counsel” not consul SMOH

          Liked by 1 person

        • archer52 says:

          If they are interviewed, they will have consul. They aren’t poor. Get their own consul. Short of that, they can sit for a while, it happens all the time. Especially when resources are strained as they are now.

          If they are interviewed, and ask for consul (remember, that is a CHOICE by them), then anything they say will not be allowed in court. I had one gang member, when the rumor about a RICO coming down the line, call me with his mother and BEG to come in and confess- He wanted first bite at the apple. I asked the SA in charge of the case and much to my shock was told I could not talk to him….yet. It was against everything I had learned about investigations. But I had never directly handled a RICO before. It is a different beast!

          Once the charges were filed and he and the others were arrested, the kid and his consul came in and cooperated. No hiccups, no suppression hearings, no fighting. Just plea out and rat your buddies 101.

          Like

          • lovely says:

            They aren’t poor

            While I agree having a Harley and maintaing it is not cheap, 79 of them have asked for a Public Defender. So poor or not right now they qualify and are asking for a free defense.

            It is possible that some were interviewed before they lawyered up. But it is possible not, LE was busy booking, warehousing them and separating them by gang allegiances for some time. During that time I have to believe the brighter among them was instructing each and everyone of them to say nothing and request an attorney.

            Liked by 1 person

            • art tart says:

              lovely ~ thanks for your contributions. Although the Bandiditos are considered a “gang,” I’m surprised their group didn’t include perhaps a retired attorney/paralegal, someone w/knowledge of how the legal system works. We know there was a retired “Detective” in the bunch, I’m surprised those that might have had some legal knowledge such as the Detective didn’t educate the group as to the consequences of “rico,” etc.

              Apparently, had they known the consequences, it seems their weapons would have been taken to TP’s before the meeting & stored in a van somewhere at an off site location so they couldn’t be conficscated by LE but accsessed quickly if they were needed. It’s hard to believe the Bandititos wouldn’t have seen the consequences, I can’t understand as long as they have been around why the leader acted so impulsively in a public arena shooting someone in the head at point blank range.. More questions than answers.

              Like

        • What about those in jail that have no affiliation with any club or gang? Can they be charged simply because they were dressed a certain way and perhaps rode a motorcycle to the restaurant?

          Liked by 1 person

          • michellc says:

            It is quite concerning how many have no issue with them doing that.

            Liked by 1 person

          • lovely says:

            The short answer is no they can’t be charged because they dressed a certain way or rode a motorcycle to a restaurant. But that is not why they have been arrested, at least not according to the arrest complaint, the unaffiliated arrested are claimed to have an active association with the Bandidos or the Cossacks and/or have participated in activity with them in the past so it it my understanding that they are being piggybacked in as “guilty by allegiance” or “co-conspirators” .

            Like

    • Monroe says:

      It sounds as if an individual who happens to be a biker and legally owns/carries a gun, and finds himself in the middle of an altercation, can be charged under RICO if he happens to be hanging out with or near other members of a perceived criminal group.

      Bottom line: Membership or association with a “perceived” criminal group is sufficient cause for arrest.

      Caveat: Only applies to non-black groups.

      Liked by 5 people

      • lovely says:

        It does seem that way. Not sure when or where I posted it but I gave a tip to folks, if you carry a gun, don’t run with criminals.

        Like

        • pspsst says:

          It was a Federation of Bikers, Clubs and Independents.

          We’ve defined bikers as one homologous group called criminals? Media, chooses how we understand reality I see.

          Like

          • lovely says:

            You are barking up the wrong tree. I never defined bikers as a whole nor have I said that they are all criminals, in fact I’ve said just the opposite, Most bikers are great guys.

            Like

            • pspsst says:

              But you do refer to them as criminals in your response to Monroe’s comments — which is misleading to others. The media don’t need more help with their propaganda. If we fall for their game then we are playing right into their hands. If I’m wrong, then I stand corrected.

              Like

              • lovely says:

                I refer to the 1 % er’s ‘s criminals. That is what they want to be known as they just don’t want to pay the consequences of that notoriety. I don’t know how it is misleading to others but I apologize for being unclear. No fears I’m not a media minion,(didn’t even have a TV for over a decade and I don’t watch a whole lot now 🙂 ) but thanks for your concern.

                Like

            • joshua says:

              they think maybe you are doing the dreaded “profiling” so hated by the libs.

              Like

    • Monroe says:

      Why are there no charges against NOI or the street gangs in B’more, Ferguson, and NYC under RICO?

      Like

      • joshua says:

        wearing a T shirt to proclaim your protest CAUSE is not the same as wearing a Biker Vest and traveling as a consistent organized GANG….the riots in Black Lives Matter are not organized as a group, but by ACTIVIST ideologs and there is no membership required of the crowd.

        Like

      • lovely says:

        You answered your own question
        Caveat: Only applies to non-black groups

        We live in a post Constitutional America, the law is applied to some folks and not others. Some folks are given space to destroy.

        Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        They are protected community organizations. The PAC says Texas has a file of some sort designating the members as criminals, or something like that.

        Like

      • Jett Black says:

        Simple–those are pawns serving their masters’ wills and their masters largely, if not entirely control the official legal system and the propaganda outlets. Therefore they will receive no punishment or even adverse attention. All free people–watch out!

        Like

  12. jc says:

    I think this JP would sign anything shoved in front of him, they’re lucky nobody has given him an execution order to sign – oh yeah,there were already 9 executions in the parking lot. When all the dust settles we will have the second biggest government condoned massacre in Waco history.

    Liked by 1 person

    • michellc says:

      There are many judges with a law degree who will sign anything put in front of them. I had a cop tell me awhile back that when they want a warrant to search a vehicle it takes them less than 5 minutes. That two different judges automatically approve any request.
      I asked him if they even give a probable cause and he said all they have to do is say they suspect there are drugs. No reason as to why they suspect that. He finds it makes their job easier, I find such ease being put in the wrong hands will be abused.

      Liked by 4 people

    • joshua says:

      come on man, that is HARSH and not factually rooted in reality.

      Like

  13. mimbler says:

    I’m bothered by the notion of being able to arrest anyone wearing motorcycle club identification. If it is illegal to belong to the Bandidos (which I do not believe to be the case) why haven’t they been arrested earlier? They wear their jackets everywhere so they aren’t hiding their affiliation. I think that the LE use of the term “criminal motorcycle gangs” is probably not correct. A more precise description would be motorcycle clubs that contain some members who are criminals. Similar to Congress, but we can’t arrest all of them because some (perhaps most) are criminals. Remember that 2/3 had no criminal record. I think that it is also troubling that the police are leaving the insinuation that the bikers caused all the deaths and injuries on the table, but have never actually stated it or stated if any/all deaths were caused by police. At this point we really don’t know if a single murder was committed,
    Mike
    Mike

    Liked by 2 people

    • Monroe says:

      IF I understand the RICO argument and wearing of the MC colors, there is a far greater impact than just 9 possibly executed bikers.

      If I attend a Tea Party or Returning Vet Rally and the govt considers those groups to be potential domestic terrorist organizations and a fight ensues; based on RICO does it mean the LE have the right to use deadly force bc some participants might be legally carrying a weapon; or can LE mass arrest all participants based on their potential group association?

      Liked by 3 people

      • John Galt says:

        I think it would be ok if you’re black and wearing Bloods or New Black Panthers gear.

        Liked by 1 person

      • smiley says:

        THIS is the probable precedent that should be of utmost concern, in this case, imo.

        Liked by 1 person

        • doodahdaze says:

          I imagine at least a couple of these guys have enough money to have good lawyers. I wonder how the arrests will be challenged. I think a judge can hold them w/o bond if state can show to release would be a danger to themselves or others, or they would be a flight risk.

          Like

          • smiley says:

            not a lawyer, so I don’t know, and won’t even venture a guess…
            but would Habeas Corpus apply, at this point…or is that only after a Judgment has been rendered?

            Like

      • manickernel says:

        I may be wrong but I believe RICO, to succeed in court, requires some evidence of communal action between those charged. Regular contact (MC charters), communication (phone calls, email, etc.), financial ties, etc. The Bandidos and Cossacks, by wearing identifying cuts alone, does not automatically make them guilty. Their presence at the crime scene along with other evidence will be the deciding factors in court.

        Like

        • lovely says:

          I suspect that they have that evidence, this was an oil field waiting to erupt, and it seems LE knew about a lot of faults in the field but had no legal way of stopping the eruption. I suspect that we are going to see a lot of evidence presented when this finally makes it way to court.

          Not to mention all the new evidence which will be made available because of all the confiscated phones and search warrants which will be issued. I am surprised that we have not heard about raids on the Bandidos’ clubs in Texas.

          Like

          • michellc says:

            You think they got evidence against the ones who were not members of the Bandidos or Cossacks?
            You said above you don’t believe all bikers are criminals only the 1% gangs, well not all arrested were members of the 1% gangs.

            Like

            • lovely says:

              Here you go direct from the PCA:

              After the altercation, the subject was apprehended at the scene, while wearing common identifying distinctive signs or symbols or had an identifiable leadership or continuously or regularly associate in the commission of criminal activities

              After the altercation, firearms, knives or other unknown edged weapons, batons, clubs, brass knuckles, and other weapons were recovered from members and associates of both criminal street gangs

              Multiple motorcycles with common identifying signs or symbols of the Cossacks and Bandidos and their associates were recovered at the scene. Additional weapons including : firearms, ammunition, knives, brass knuckles, and other weapons were found on the motorcycles

              Again Texas Law allows for all parties involved in the melee to have the possibility of being guilty to one degree or another of murder. there is no I just stuck my toe in the pool defense in Texas. But the toe stickers certainly will be offered plea deals.

              Charges will be sorted out and specialized to the individual.

              Don’t forget RICO is being used, which means the FM immunity is not far behind.

              My belief is that most of these folks are in legal trouble. There will be a pyramid of guilt, with the trigger pullers at the top, then the knife wielders and then the “Oh damn, my brothers are in a fight, so am I” all the way down to the ones who the prosecutor is calling associates of both gangs .

              Texas has wanted what they consider a ruthless lawless gang of bikers out of town for a long time, it looks like the events of at Twin Peaks may be the green boot that they have been looking for.

              Like

              • michellc says:

                IMHO you are making assumptions and you believe 100% what the cops are selling.

                Not all of these people were sticking their toes in anything.

                The cops can’t even get the number of weapons correct and they list swiss army knives as weapons.

                Like I’ve said many times some of the opinions on here are very concerning and I think many of you don’t get the big picture.

                Like

                • lovely says:

                  You have misunderstood everything I have said. I choose not to repeat myself using different words to say the same thing, again. Suffice it to say I am only following the evidence available to the public, the PCA, Texas Law and information readily available about the Bandidos. And the opinions of my biker friends.

                  A little information that you may find helpful. Some Bandidos sport a “Expect No Mercy” patch, former undercover police, former Bandidos all say the same thing, the patch must be earned. It represents going above and beyond the call to the brotherhood. Taking a human life is the way to earn this patch. The patch and those who wear it are venerated in the Bandidos club.

                  As to not all these people were sticking their toes in anything, legally you are just wrong.There may be a few who walk away but any of the Bandidos, the Cossacks and their recruits are tied in with RICO which automatically puts their toes in the water. Whether the associates will remain snagged is yet to be seen.

                  As for believing the police, yes I believe them that the first shot came from a biker, everything else stems from there.

                  Have a good day.

                  Like

                • michellc says:

                  I’m not even talking about the Bandidos, I’m talking about the people who were not members of the Bandidos or the Cossacks.
                  I have issues with how all of this went down and the explanations of the cops.

                  I have even bigger issues with people who are not members of the clubs they are pointing the finger at being held under the same bond.

                  Like

                • lovely says:

                  The PCA addressed your issue. I gave it to you verbatim what the PCA said. You can have issues with it but that won’t change the law, RICO or the PCA.

                  I have yet to see anyone post a viable response that LE could have conducted on an active shooter scene with multiple guns being brandished by bikers.

                  Like

      • Jujube22 says:

        Seems like they can, in Texas.

        Like

      • I think the answer is yes and that is what has worried me since RICO laws were enacted some 30 or 40 years ago EVERYWHERE in the US. What was that about anyway? Oh, right, the Mafia. Except that early usage never touched organized crime, IIRC.

        Like

  14. LadyRavenSDC says:
  15. John Galt says:

    “I saw the first three of our guys fall, and we started running,” said their brother in arms, another Cossack, who said he was there May 17 when the shooting started at the Twin Peaks restaurant in Waco. Nine bikers died, 18 were wounded and more than 170 landed in jail. The Cossack, president of a North Texas chapter of the motorcycle gang, asked not to be identified because he is now in hiding and said he fears for his life.”

    Washington Post article. Twin Peaks surrounded by cops, but President of Cossack gang wearing colors and in close proximity to shootings escapes by running away? “asked not to be identified” President of a North Texas chapter of Cossack’s gang was present at shootings is unknown to police and to Bandidos? He didn’t want to be identified, but wanted to publicly announce that he was president of a North Texas chapter of the Cossack’s motorcycle gang?

    Like

    • lovely says:

      I don’t think TP was immediately surrounded and IMO the guy from the interview, if he was really there, ran, I don’t think the scene was immediately, completely contained. The interviewed Cossack said something along the line of respecting his brothers who stayed to fight. That said I’m not convinced there is a real witness who gave a real interview. It sounds like very stilted speech to me not a natural flow of words but that could be attributed to a very specific narrative being put forth by the interviewee.

      From the article;

      I took off,” the Cossack rider said. “I got out of there. I didn’t have a weapon. I couldn’t fight anybody

      And reading this immediately reminded me of Dorian Johnson’s We aren’t but a moment from our destination officer remark.

      Cossacks quickly jumped to the prospect’s defense, he said: Guys were saying, ‘You’re disrespecting us,’ or, ‘We’re not backing down

      I can’t imagine a world where that would have been the Cossack’s response.

      Like

    • archer52 says:

      Try stomping a hill of ants. See how many manage to get away.

      Like

      • pspsst says:

        The curious thing is…………..they didn’t act like ants trying to get away contrary to whatever media folklore or rumor is being perpetuated. Apparently they ran into the “bank” to seek protection, and when someone with a gun entered the premise, they dropped like bank customers to the ground. Well, the ones who didn’t suffer arthritis and knee trouble did anyways.

        Liked by 1 person

  16. Pingback: Key updates on the WACO shooting | Anarcho Prepper

  17. Rodney Plonker says:

    Here’s an interesting article on the overcharging. The comments are similar to ours.

    http://www.dallasnews.com/news/state/headlines/20150523-waco-prosecutors-have-work-cut-out-for-them-in-biker-gang-shootout.ece

    Like

    • doodahdaze says:

      Just imagine the witness lists of each defendant. All 170 of their fellow co-conspirators will be on it. What a legal nightmare.

      Like

    • lovely says:

      One of the biker’s attorneys calls the charges an overreach and states that too many people have been charged. He is paid to defend his client and to say what paints his client in the best light and the prosecutors office in the worst light.

      And another Defense attorney;

      Anytime the police are arresting close to 200 people for engaging in an organized crime committing capital murder, what they’re saying is that they have probable cause that each and every one of these people committed capital murder,” he said. “Obviously, that’s absurd

      That simply isn’t true.

      This, from the same article is more accurate;

      *Participation doesn’t need to involve pulling the trigger, Coates (former prosecutor) said. It could be anything as small as texting someone before the shooting about wanting to kill a rival, or holding someone’s gun. Under the state’s so-called law of parties, Coates said that basically “in Texas, if you’re in for a little bit, you’re in for the whole thing

      And this from the article, I believe is spot on, the poorer of the bikers, the less mentally astute, and perhaps some whose guns come up tied to another crime, those men are going to be the ones who the prosecutor will offer plea deals.

      The McLennan County district attorney’s office won’t say how its 26 prosecutors plan to tackle the case, which could involve seeking the death penalty. But experts predicted they will divide the defendants into groups, offer plea deals to the less culpable suspects and try only the ones against whom they have the best evidence

      Whether the bond of brotherhood will be broken is yet to be seen.

      LE has got to see this as an opportunity to put a serious dent in what LE refers to as the Bandidos’ ruthless lawlessness.

      Like

      • lovely, TCTH is my only source of news for this thing. Your refer to ” Bandidos’ ruthless lawlessness.” Are there any examples being offered in other media? I haven’t seen any here, since we normally concentrate on scene-of-the-crime matters. Can you or any of the other brilliant Treepers enlighten me? Thank you.

        Like

        • BobNoxious says:

          The Bandidos are a recognized 1%’er outlaw motorcycle gang (OMG). A short Google search will give you multiple examples of crimes that this group has been involved in over the past 50 years. Today biker gangs are heavily involved in the meth trade- usually running it from point A to point B along the I-35 corridor through Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and up to I-35 – I-49 – I-70 interchange in Kansas City, MO.

          That’s not to say every Bandido is necessarily involved in every aspect of the meth trade (or whatever crime(s) the group is committing), however, in several recent trials involving OMGs and drug running, evidence out on at trial (and accepted by jurors) has shown that a portion of everyone’s membership dues goes to fund various elicit activities.

          With respect to these groups in Texas, just in the past few weeks leading up to this shoot out, there have been a couple incidents of serious assault and bike theft involving Texas based Bandidos and Cossacks.

          Like

        • lovely says:

          Well I already posted a link to a documentary where an undercover officer discusses some of his interactions with the Bandidos and so do two former Bandidos. It is in one of the threads.

          There is also a link to Texas Gang Assessment.

          There is Bob’s post above ^

          Like

    • Tonawanda says:

      It’s a pretty good article as far as it goes, but even the defense attorneys do not mention two other potential obstacles to prosecution.
      First, if this was an actual scuffle which grew into a brawl, then it was not a conspiracy or even likely intentional murder by any biker. It was a scuffle which turned into a brawl, not usually the substance of conspiracy charges.
      Second, the timing of when the police started firing into the crowd may eliminate any basis for concluding validly that there was an actual murder or a conspiracy which resulted in murder.
      I just want to add – – the article mentions the arrest of 120 in the Nevada incident and the small numbers (12) who were actually convicted.
      I understand why people are not bothered by the mass arrests and can defend them in good faith, but I am concerned this does confirm a present bias in the justice system to trivialize the Constitution. It is a message of impunity and do what you want.

      Liked by 2 people

      • lovely says:

        If the Bandidos set the Cossacks up, and there is any proof of a set up, that is a conspiracy. If the Cossacks texted each other anything such as “What if this is a set up, the Bandidos are none too happy with us adopting the bottom Texas rocker and not paying our dues” and another Cossack responded with some form of “We will be ready” that is prior knowledge of this being more than a gathering of bikers to discuss politics.

        Like

        • Tonawanda says:

          Interesting, because your speculation indicates that the arrests were in fact without probable cause and thus illegal. There is no evidence in the duplicate fill-in-blank affidavit similar to what you speculate.

          Like

  18. geoffb5 says:

    I have a question which might have been answered before.

    Since the Google Earth image of this place is from before the Twin Peaks, or the strip mall behind it, were constructed and only the Don Carlos is there, has anyone made an overhead image with the new construction added so that the various pictures can be understood as to who/what was where in relation to others?

    Like

  19. John Galt says:

    Mongols 1 – Cop 0

    http://www.agingrebel.com/8099

    Like

  20. geoffb5 says:

    Sorry, I had trouble getting logged into WordPress and so copy/pasted what I had written into the comment place when I finally got logged in and it posted as a single line which I can’t now edit or delete. Still I hope my question has an answer.

    Like

  21. Jujube22 says:

    Why aren’t they charging the injured as they are released from the hospital? They said only members of these criminal gangs were injured — so that part makes no sense to me. If they were injured, they were definitely out there where the action was happening unlike some of these other folks they arrested.

    Like

  22. Justice_099 says:

    Must be time for a new season of SoA, I take it?

    Like

  23. Having seen first-hand the depravity of some of the individuals, I have no love for outlaw bikers. Many are a pox and deserve long prison sentences, and their criminal organizations need to be dismantled. But that still doesn’t give LEOs a “rubber stamp” to declare open season on them.

    First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Socialist.

    Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
    Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

    —-MARTIN NIEMÖLLER

    Liked by 2 people

  24. archer52 says:

    Lovely has done an outstanding job organizing the process here.

    As this sorts out, lesser actors in the mess will be offered deals- once the DA can prove they are truly talking to lesser actors. That will take time. Some of the 99%ers are probably screaming as we speak, but until it can be proven they weren’t actually in the middle of this, they sit. (If a 99%er shot someone he’s a 1%er now! Remember a young gang member initiated the first confrontation so he could get “made”. )

    As I pointed out in my above comment. I didn’t grasp RICO at first. I actually had one gang member try to come in and confess (and he was knee deep in the crimes) to get in front of the train. The lead SA said not to talk to him! It was against everything I knew to be good policing, bad guy wants to confess and you say no?? But the SA said there would be time to get confessions. Sure enough, we picked up the crew, and their attorneys marched them in one by one, trying to get in front. Never saw anything like it before. RICO is a different kettle of fish and it scares bad guys.
    Yes, the feds have the bikers on their radar as most local intel units should. Reams of intelligence work. They will have cell records, text messages, emails, access to police information, photos and any UC affidavits. I’m betting from the photos I saw where those idiots were on their smartphones while being detained, there in evidence out there now.

    This event was a stupid act by the bikers that may very well uncork a huge fed investigation. We need to keep an eye on that. You know and I know in this Obama world, the feds will be more interested in making political points (anti-gun stuff) than serving justice. However, the locals will have their say too.
    As to Black gangs/NOI/Black Panthers as Galt points out seem to get away with shit. Yep. They do. And yep, for the reasons stated here. You couldn’t get this administration or any democrat administration to run the Crips to the ground on a large scale RICO. An element of it maybe, but not the whole organization. One, it is too loosely organized with local chapters (same with the Bandidos and Cossacks- this investigation will be limited in scope at some point). However, they have gone after and prosecuted chapters of gangs in areas. A quick search will verify that.

    Two, well Galt made the point.

    NOI and Black Panthers are a political/religious group and that is where they are going to hide until they feel ready to unleash their plan to destroy our nation. What they do is “accepted” in our society because of PC and white guilt and on and on and….

    That may change if they ramp up their semi-legal/political agenda into straight up crime. If the NOI or Black Panthers started killing wholesale or kidnapping or extortion, then a different administration may lock them down, but don’t bet on it. As pointed out, in this current world “all animals are equal, just some animals are more equal than others”…. (Literally the best single phrase ever written to explain it all !)

    I see the NOI and NBP walking around with guns on the strutting like roosters. As long as that is all they do, they are safe. If they go to a public restaurant and start shooting the place up, they may find themselves in the same mess.

    As for the protestors- heck, the Obama people bussed them in using Soros money! It’s “his people”! So no, nobody will prosecute them. Besides, I’ve been told they can’t help themselves. (the single most racist comment I’ve heard- from black politicians!)

    There are a lot of agendas moving around here. I told my kids we are living in historic times, we are just too close to see it. I’m sure the French Revolution crowd didn’t realize that hundreds of years later they would be used as a reference point in the history of civilization.

    Like

    • NOI doesn’t carry guns. They wear bow ties, for goodness’ sake! Farrakhan has been talking about alliances with NBP and other gangs that do arm themselves, but he is not as scary crazy as some people think. Read some news articles about his public appearances and comments. I think NOI gave up arming themselves shortly after one of them killed Malcolm X. They are doing everything they can to instill good habits in their adherents.

      Like

  25. Phil N says:

    The Last Refuge is the only source still covering this story. When the story didn’t go the way the news media wanted (all the news media, not just the liberal sites) they dropped this story like a hot potato. There is something very wrong here!

    Liked by 1 person

  26. geoffb5 says:

    Looking at these two pictures.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/waco-13.jpg?w=640&h=405

    There is a group of [approx] 16 bikes which are all headed toward the main confrontation scene when they were parked in the parking lot roadway. The group snakes from the back of the place and then up the side which faces Don Carlos. At the front of the group are 6 bikes right where three [at least] of the bodies fell and they are facing two bikes one of which seem to be over on its side. I can’t see how 100 riders could come into this small lot at once. Even doubled up that would be 50 bikes and the lot looks full already. I’d be inclined to believe that the group coming in was the 16 bikes not 100.

    Liked by 2 people

    • BobNoxious says:

      Using your pic plus these 3 from the KWTX TV helicopter I count at least 22 that appear to be suddenly parked/not in a parking space and in a “ride up“ type of line or formation that starts at the dead bodies and wraps around the side of the building.

      At the very least it indicates these bikers stopped rather abruptly, whether for a fight or gunfire or whatever.

      Liked by 1 person

  27. pspsst says:

    Apologies, I’m late to the game. That is a great photo. Is that SUV between the multiple orange cones an unmarked police car then? It seems a far distance to the TP crime spot. Could someone knowledgable on guns and gun distance by professional LE or civilian gun carry comment? I’m assuming those orange cones could not be marking where the bullets from supposed criminal gang members shot back at LE. It seems to me at that angle and distance only a trained sniper with suitable weapon could fire that accurately at the dead bikers’ head and neck. From that distance too, again, how did LE know what was going on all the way down to where the 6 bikes were located? Would the type of gun used on breaking the window be capable of shooting accurately from that distance from SUV to dead biker.

    Another observation is why does Don Carlos restaurant have plastic up on its windows? Was it suffering economic hardships and financially defunct already long before May 17?

    Like

    • geoffb5 says:

      The distance from the cones in the left foreground of the photo to where the bodies are seen to be is about 100 yards. Not a far shot for a rifle though it is for a handgun. The next set would be at about 60 yards and the ones under the light around 30.

      Like

      • pspsst says:

        At 100 yards, these rifles would have to be in the hands of a sureshot or trained sniper with cross hair pointed to accurately hit head and neck? The cones at 100 yards are behind the unmarked SUV.. Those at 60 yards seem to be out in the open (on the right side of the dark SUV) – so can LE shoot accurately without a prop below to stabilize the rifle? No wonder LE were not injured, they were stationed too far and had no fear being shot by bikers, with the exception of having vest protection.

        The unmarked SUV reminds me of the Derek Hale take down.

        One mean looking biker dude (/sarc). He was a Iraq combat veteran.

        http://freedominourtime.blogspot.ca/2012/09/of-bidens-and-bikers-does-anybody.html

        Like

  28. michellc says:

    While searching for those arrested on FB, I’ve found a few things. One is a “Save Sandra Drama Lynch” page.
    According to an article I found she and her husband are members of Los Pirados MC.
    http://www.wacotrib.com/news/twin-peaks-biker-shooting/friends-family-claim-some-arrested-bikers-shouldn-t-be-jailed/article_08d7101a-7794-546e-a718-58e3c3a71e91.html#.VWHaw3XJZIs.facebook

    From a comment on the Texas Confederation of Clubs fb, women cannot be members of the 1% clubs, so how exactly are the three women arrested going to be charged under RICO? How exactly are members of clubs not affiliated with the Bandidos, Cossacks or Scimitars going to be charged under RICO?
    Some are saying Leathernecks were arrested, they’re not affiliated with any other biker group.

    A few more links:
    http://txcocinews.org/cta-waco-tragedy.html

    https://www.facebook.com/txcoci?fref=ts

    Like

    • pspsst says:

      Thank you for the link on Sandra Lynch, she’s president of one of the “mom and pop” MC’s which from TreasureGypsy’s links appear to be exactly the older bikers who can afford the big cruising bikes and are harmless. She was one of the organisers of the bike safety talk on May 17, arrested long with her plumber MC husband. They are gainfully employed in a proper trade and community services for other bikers, have rescue dogs and she really sounds like “a bad Bandido”. (/sarc) Both are still detained, probably disarmed of their protective weapons and cruising machines, and these are two of the four who could not make it to vote for the safe bike legislation they enacted with the governor (or city official). Such outlaws, aren’t they?

      Like

      • michellc says:

        From the information I’ve gathered on them, he owns his own plumbing business, which the kids are trying to run while he’s in jail.
        I believe the cops didn’t do their own research on patches and that is why some of these people are in jail and with the right attorney the taxpayers of Waco are going to be paying out some big money for Waco PD’s screw up.

        Like

  29. Curious about the five people “Unarrested” (in quotes as Officer Sam Key) – were they “undercover bikers” who were taken through the whole process of being arrested so their covers were’t blown? or the “plain clothes/off duty” officers Swanton talks about in one of his speeches. hmmmm. also NO MUGSHOTS.

    Also interesting is the rubber-stamp PC Affidavit is written to contain all the “requisite definitions” and “elements of the crime” – ready to fill-in-the-blank for Name & DOB) as outlined in the Texas Penal Code, Title 11, Chapter 71 ORGANIZED CRIME
    For example:
    Sec. 71.01. DEFINITIONS
    (a) “Combination” means three or more persons who collaborate in carrying on criminal activities..
    (d) “Criminal Street Gang” means three or more persons having a common identifying sign or symbol or an identifiable leadership who continuously or regularly associate in the commission of criminal activities. (Note the Affidavit refers to him as “MEMBER or ASSOCIATE”)

    Sec. 71.02. ENGAGING IN ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.
    (a) A person commits an offense if, with the intent to establish, maintain, or participate in a combination or in the profits of a combination or as a member of a criminal street gang, the person commits or conspires to commit one or more of the following:
    (1) murder, capital murder, […] aggravated assault […]

    I’m sorry but just because someone where a t-shirt with “an identifying log” does not make them a member or associate. I have an SYLB t-shirt that I bought last year at a Toys for Tots fundraiser, and I’m not a biker or a criminal. If I wear it (which I don’t often in public because it’s huge) – am I considered an “associate” conspiring to commit organized crime, because I’m wearing an “identifying logo”? Waco PD has completely overstepped their boundaries as law enforcement, in my opinion. The magnitude of families affected by this is huge. search warrants, forfeited motorcycles and vehicles, jobs lost, homes lost, etc. Just a damn shame. God help them all.

    sources:
    Texas Penal Code, Title 11, Ch. 71 ORGANIZED CRIME
    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.71.htm

    TEXAS PENAL CODE Ch. 8 GENERAL DEFENSES TO CRIMINAL RESPONSIBILITY
    (see sections 8.02 MISTAKE OF FACT, 8.05 DURESS, and Sec. 8.06 ENTRAPMENT)
    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.8.htm

    Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, Title 1, Ch. SEARCH WARRANTS http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.18.htm#18.011

    Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, Title 1, Ch. 21 INDICTMENT AND INFORMATION
    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.21.htm

    Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, Title 1, Ch. 59 FORFEITURE OF CONTRABAND
    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.59.htm

    Like

  30. SOURCE: TCLEOSE (TEXAS COMMISSION ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER STANDARDS AND EDUCATION)

    TCLEOSE SUPPLEMENTAL PEACE OFFICERS COURSE 1018
    http://docslide.us/documents/tcleose-supplemental.html
    page 22 MOTORCYLES – Section 3.1.21 –

    Motorcycle Operator Profiling Awareness:
    The popularity of the motorcycle as a primary means of transportation has grown in the past decade. More and more people are buying and riding motorcycles and they represent all facets
    of society. All races, genders, and occupations are represented in this area. There is no such thing as “the typical biker” no more so than trying to describe “the typical criminal type” or “the
    typical Texan”.

    As an officer remember, “Violators” are defined by their actions not how they look.
    Classes of Street Motorcycles officers may encounter:
    • Sport Bikes – factory built motorcycles that resemble professional racing motorcycles. This style of motorcycles generally attracts younger riders
    • Street Bikes – regular motorcycles that range from 250cc to 1100cc engines. The riders of these bikes are in all age groups
    • Cruiser Class – “Top End” motorcycles that average 1100cc to 1800cc in size and usually are equipped with windshields, saddlebags, and accessories. Due to their price, their riders are usually older

    Differences between a Motorcycle Club and a Criminal Street Gang:
    A motorcycle club is a group of people that ride motorcycles in organized activities. They may wear distinctive clothing to identify their club. Their primary activities involve the sport of
    motorcycling.

    Criminal Street Gang (PC 71.01(d)):
    Three or more persons having a common identifying sign or symbol or an identifiable leadership who continuously or regularly associate in the commission of criminal activities. Common misconceptions and beliefs associated with the motorcycle operator:
    • Sport Bike riders are speeders that ride dangerously.
    • Bikers (general term) use narcotics, drink, raise hell, and probably have outstanding warrants.
    • Cruiser Class riders are the “station wagon” set of the motorcycle world. These “mom & pop” riders generally pose no threat.
    • Motorcycle Clubs that “fly their colors” (wear their club jackets) are “outlaw bikers” that are showing their disrespect for law enforcement and are in effect “claiming new turf” by showing the colors.
    • Any biker not wearing a helmet is breaking the law.
    • Bikers are generally lower income to middle class laborers, juvenile delinquents, and troublemakers.

    Concepts for stopping Motorcycle Operators:
    • Be sure that the reason for the stop is an identified violation of the law and not due to stereotype.
    • Follow the 7-step violator contact protocol, but have the operator remain astride his motorcycle with the kickstand up (this keeps the operator occupied with
    balancing the motorcycle and reduces the possibility of attempting anything with the officer).
    • Remain professional and deal with the violation and not the appearance of the operator or perceived prejudices or attitudes.

    Unit Goal: 1.5. The student will understand the time limitations relating to felonies and misdemeanors.
    SEE PAGE 8 – 1.5.3 “Identify the time limitations relating to aggravated offenses, attempt, conspiracy, solicitation, and organized criminal activity.”
    • Aggravated offenses, attempt, conspiracy, solicitation, organized criminal activity – CCP 12.03

    SEE ALSO –

    Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, Chapter 12 LIMITATIONS.
    http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/CR/htm/CR.12.htm

    Art. 12.03. AGGRAVATED OFFENSES, ATTEMPT, CONSPIRACY, SOLICITATION, ORGANIZED CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. (a) The limitation period for criminal attempt is the same as that of the offense attempted.
    (b) The limitation period for criminal conspiracy or organized criminal activity is the same as that of the most serious offense that is the object of the conspiracy or the organized criminal activity.
    (c) The limitation period for criminal solicitation is the same as that of the felony solicited.
    (d) Except as otherwise provided by this chapter, any offense that bears the title “aggravated” shall carry the same limitation period as the primary crime.

    TCLEOSE CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION – GENERAL
    http://docslide.us/documents/29-criminal-investigation-general-tcleose-learning-objectives.html

    TCLEOSE PROFESSIONAL POLICING
    http://docslide.us/download/link/2-professional-policing-10-hrs-tcleose-learning-objectives-072704

    TCLEOSE SUPPLEMENTAL UPDATE 81ST LEGISLATION
    http://docslide.us/documents/tcleose-update-2009.html

    Like

  31. Hey Sundance – here’s another “new photo” (that hasn’t been seen much) -which shows a wider angle view of the parking lot and additional markers
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/11614775/Waco-shooting-Charges-filed-against-170-motorcycle-gang-members-in-pictures.html?frame=3309402

    Like

    • EclecticAK says:

      Gee, do you see the 3 marker cones up on the “grassy knoll” (get the reference?) well outside the parking lot (killing ground) “crime scene”…….?

      Like

  32. joshua says:

    The media would be more attentive to this story if:
    1. Al Sharpton were there leading a march
    2. Hilliary rode up on a Harley and held a press conference about anti Muslim videos
    3. George Zimmerman happened to be eating a sandwich at Twin Peaks in Waco

    Liked by 1 person

  33. Scott Spencer says:

    Seems to me Don Carlos would rather sue Waco PD rather than TP, after looking at the above photo. Waco was there in Arms & numbers, ( Fact ) Waco wanted the restraunt closed down, they got it. ( Fact ) 9 bikers died, no civilians, no law enforcement, ( Fact ) All bikers held without bond, ( essentially ) & presumed guilty, ( Fact ) seems pretty straight forward to me.. RICO, coming to a grade school near you in, Boys vs Girls…

    Like

  34. Tonawanda says:

    I cannot vouch for the following. It was a link published in the Aging Rebel comments.
    https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/the-distorted-truth-biker-victims-of-waco/
    This link and another found at the end of the post indicates there are entirely innocent people who were arrested, including Christian bikers, veterans, and bikers from “Mom and Pop” clubs.

    So far, the affidavit we have seen here has not provided probable cause, nor has anyone here provided facts establishing probable cause or even attempted to explain how the affidavit posted here establishes probable cause for the named person. It does not. Knowing how the law works is not a substitute for facts.

    I understand this is no big deal for many, but for those who were arrested without probable cause,and whose lives have been affected, it is a big deal.

    Conservatives especially should keep in mind, it is not implausible that mass arrests will affect their lives in the near future.

    Like

    • Scott Spencer says:

      Tonawanda, I like your post, I’ve been arguing this since Monday following the incident. Best case, ( IMO ) you have 6 to 8 bikers in a altercation. 9 dead, and a whole bunch in jail on no bail. (essentially) Everyone better be concerned…

      Like

  35. lovely says:

    Here are a couple of pictures I have not seen. They are good for perspective. Has anyone seen the crane before? Did the parent company come in and remove the TP sign?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/19/us/waco-texas-biker-gang-shooting.html?_r=0

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/05/18/us/waco-shooting-scene-graphic.html

    Like

    • geoffb5 says:

      I’ve seen the crane in a number of pictures. Lots of construction going on there as that area is still being built. Thank you for the second which seems to be a wider view of the one I posted earlier.

      Liked by 1 person

  36. Jujube22 says:

    Finally more stories are starting to get out! Found this this morning: https://amyirenewhite.wordpress.com/2015/05/26/the-distorted-truth-biker-victims-of-waco/

    Like

  37. Stephen says:

    What if Those Bikers had Been, Like, Another Color?
    Jim Goad | 25 May 2015

    Only in America can the media take a deadly shootout among white and Hispanic bikers and somehow make it all about black people….

    According to the FBI’s 2013 National Gang Report, street gangs outnumber biker gangs by a factor of around 35-1.

    http://takimag.com/article/what_if_those_bikers_had_been_like_another_color_jim_goad/print#axzz3bIgK6a2T

    Like

    • Stephen says:

      I also intended to quote the following from the article linked above:

      “…Police showed a much more aggressive response to this incident—which couldn’t have lasted more than five minutes—than they did to prolonged rioting in Ferguson and Baltimore.

      Like

  38. Pingback: Waco “Twin Peaks” Shooting – The Crossfire and The Four Dead Bodies We Don’t See… | The Silent Soldier

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