The premise of this interlocutory exchange is beyond bizarre when you think about it.
President Trump’s negotiation team worked with Ukraine officials and Russian officials to establish the parameters for a ceasefire proposal. Representatives from the U.S, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio, Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner, working as moderators for a cessation of hostilities, held multiple meetings with high level Ukraine and Russian officials, including Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin, and Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
As a consequence, President Trump’s team (Rubio, Witkoff and Kushner) have spent hundreds of hours, including nine entire days over the last two weeks, in detailed face-to-face discussions with Ukraine officials.
Zelenskyy then goes to Paris, London, Brussels and Rome, to consult with European leaders, and then has the audacity to say he will present a counterproposal from the Europeans to President Trump.
PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY – “Today, we already discussed with our negotiating team the results of yesterday’s work in London, which was conducted at the level of the National Security Advisors of our European partners. This was agreed upon yesterday at the leadersʼ level.
We are working very actively on all components of potential steps toward ending the war. The Ukrainian and European components are now more developed, and we are ready to present them to our partners in the U.S. Together with the American side, we expect to swiftly make the potential steps as doable as possible.
We are committed to a real peace and remain in constant contact with the United States. And, as our partners in the negotiating teams rightly note, everything depends on whether Russia is ready to take effective steps to stop the bloodshed and prevent the war from reigniting. In the near future, we will be ready to send the refined documents to the United States. Glory to Ukraine!” (SOURCE)
If Zelenskyy is representing Ukraine, then why didn’t Zelenskyy put his proposals into the agreement during two weeks of discussions with the U.S. delegation?
Is Zelenskyy representing Ukraine, or is Zelenskyy representing European stakeholders?
I know, rhetorical I guess…..
In the interim, and throughout this process, more young Ukrainian men are dead.
time to draw down forces across europe,end intel and all arms sales and let them deal with it.
ENOUGH !!!! This clown, these clowns, are war criminals….
Are we still keeping the Ukrainian economy afloat, paying retirement pensions, etc.?
If we stopped and the war is still on, what was the justification for all that economic support on top of the military support that was mostly funding the MIC here.
Turn the whole of the Russia/Ukraine problem over to Brussels.
Let Russia sort it out – they will know what to do.
No. We the USA will solve the problem. We will have the best team possible for the best outcome for all sides, even if they do not realize it yet.
We should have done this years ago. I can’t believe Trump has allowed this sideshow to go on this long.
Trump should have ended this very long term permanent government project on Day 1, as he stated when campaigning.
That would have been a clear message to the neo cons and neo libs who run our government a new sheriff is in town.
I don’t see it as a side show, it was a critical step in the isolation of and pivot toward a conflict with China. Russia was raped by our corporations from 1991 through about 2002, until Russia reclaimed its’ sovereignty. Our corporations have continuously raped Ukraine, impoverishing that experimental construct of a previously non existent indpendent state.
They actually thought that Russia would be defeated and humiliated, we would install our pick of a puppet, break up the federation and collaterize their $75 trillion of resources.
This is not going to happen and by continuing the failed war against Russia, China and now India are coalescing into a unified block.
We rapidly grow weaker and the long held neo con dream of a war to destroy China has turned to a nightmare.
We have no diplomatic skills, the last 30 years we thought we could bully anyone into submission. High time to focus on our nation and people and lay off the overseas adventures addiction.
And the Counter -Counter Proposal reads like this: no confiscated wealth for you, no nest in exile anywhere and your cocaine supply is cut off!
Just make him use his own money to buy his cocaine.
Close 5 eyes before we do anything else.
YES!!! THIS^^^^ NONE of them are our allies or friends; just remember all of the Orwellian surveillance antics during the covid nonsense? And get out of NATO. Walk away from the ukraine debacle…Z is probably negotiating with multiple countries for asylum and which country will protect his millions of laundered money. Where will he land?
Geni is out!
We were warned to eschew alliances when our Republic was founded.
Five Eyes is nothing more than plausible deniability…………We do not spy on our citizens.
Right…you spy on my citizens and we spy on your citizens.
I don’t recall anything in our Constitution outlawing the swapping of data.
Like that rationalizing? That is what the Five Eyes partners do.
Zelenskyy is nothing but a bullying grifter IMO.
Why is he alive? Seriously, I have to see some reason because Russia could easily dispatch him, and then it’s over.
The last bastion of the scoundrel is patriotism. “Glory to Ukraine!” Pfft. At this point we should dissolve Ukraine back to Poland, Hungary, Russia, etc as the only road to lasting peace.
President Trump should accept zman’s counterproposal, make a copy, run the copy through a shredder and send the copy back in a bag with a note saying, ‘We made a few changes’.
Col Macgregor on Trump: He’s too nice.
MacGregor is an idiot and worst sort … a willful idiot as the first part of this video proves it … PERIOD.
He acts utterly oblivious to the precarious political position and vulnerability of the President to the Congress and Courts as well as the Professional Resistance built into the Executive Branch.
Donald Trump is The President of The United States. He needs to start acting like it and take charge. MacGregor is correct on this one. Timidity is President Trump’s Kryptonite.
😂🤣😂🤣
Timidity does not exist in President Trump’s dictionary. Or his worldview.
WHat world do these people live in🤣🤣
MacGregor’s opening monologue is utter BS that ignores the environment president Trump has to operate “as the President” following the strictures of the Constitution, you know the separation of powers thing … plus is nothing short of a vile character assassination of everybody he mentions.
This is a joke, right?
Lololol
You must be a Euroweasle. How could any sane person disagree with MacGregor’s recommendation for the US to completely pull all personal, all intelligence support, and all military support out of Ukraine?
Any sane person would have read the bills passed right before & then after the 2024 election.
That person would know that CONgress now controls all of the 💵💰+ personnel levels in Europe & Ukraine as well as the NATO treaty.
That sane person & his/her compatriots would then go after CONgress. With pitchforks.
I read Zelensky’s proposal.
Give me 100 billion dollars, no 200 billion US dollars, give me a private island with full security. Give me a lambo, Ferrari, diamonds, Billion in Gold bars, 2 billion in silver bars. Give me a private jet like a big one, 777 with free gas and pilot for ever. Drinks with little umbrellas on them for my whole existence. And a white cat, no a hairless cat.
Make my wife go away and I want lots of American women in bikinis to hang around me all day, maybe a onesie with feet and Sherpa on the neck, in camo print. Mansion for all my women and stuff.
A train around my island that has a whistle and many cars for my women and guests, with a bar fully stocked by Americans and their booze.
And we will!
He should get 9…in fact, two 9’s….Be done with him
Is that a “double tap” you’re speaking about? Thought so. 😎
Mcgregor is an armchair warrior of the worst sort.
Making money by sitting around without all the facts undermining President Trump’s effort to get the US out of a deadly globalist attack against Russia and the rest of the world.
Mcgregor makes a living doing nothing but duping his uninformed audience.
He’s a limited hangout with an agenda.
The Ukraine isn’t a playground.
President Trump cannot jump up in a huff and take his toys away, as simple as that may sound to the blissfully ignorant (or the deliberately deceitful).
The US has to pull out lawfully and carefully.
We need to be patient and let President Trump and his people take care of it on their own clock.
FUD posts are not helping the situation.
But since when were FUD posters here to help anything?
0.o
He said he could at least a hundred times when he was campaigning for President
And nobody should have believed that.
Next.
MAcgregor says Ukraine won’t give up the land. Hate to be the one to burst his bubble, but UKR has already given up the land, by force. Spoils go to the victor, sport.
MacGregor has been saying the Russians have beaten the Ukrainians…for the last 3 years. He will eventually be proven “right”, but he does not seem objective to me.
Russia has about a third of Ukraine in its grasp after 3 years, thousands of tanks lost, and hundreds of thousands of Russians killed or wounded. They may “win” after another couple of years of attrition warfare. Some “win”.
Trump has to operate in the real world, which unfortunately contains Republicans and Democrats on the take who are unwilling to abandon Ukraine. If Congress says we are going to fund a war with Russia in Ukraine, Trump cannot refuse. That is not how it works in Realville.
FTM – follow the money; Zskyy / EU counter proposal: it depends what the definition of “is” is; what is that giant sucking sound?
The picture of the cash needs a 3rd Pile … the 10% Big Guy Pile.
Re: ukr, russia, eu
So after 3 years of war,
there are miss leaders of eu that are in the process of deteriorating their own countries in Europe,
whom got together with a grifting miss leader of ukr,
to develop ideas to improve ukr / russia ?
Or is it more time wasting, obfuscation – while more and more and more and more…people die?
[ the signal amongst the noise (3 years of noise etc.) is that the eee uuuu likes the war distraction, from its own self created problems (loss of law and order etc.) – at the cost of more and more and more and more lives – while hoping to grift off of sale$ of weapons etc. ? ]
hint: wanting ‘security guarantees’ are code words for wanting more and more and more grifting opportunities$ …while being silent about more, and more and more and more people dying from explosive injuries….
hint: is the eu ‘fixing’ the prior sabotage of nordstream per agmt, russia planes setting in the wide open per agmt, and 3 oil tankers (oil spills)?
Love thy neighbors
Security Guarantees are US Troops on the ground in Ukraine fighting Russians. Formally.
We need to cut ties with Ukraine, and Europe if need be. This is an enormous tragedy that could have been avoided.
To Europe, FAFO
So the counter proposal is to hold another rigged election of another government hostile to Russia for in return a air ceasefire and (as good as) NATO troops stationed in Ukraine giving security guarantees. Which would also apply the stop of fighting along the current line. Also anybody say anything about continuation of the grift and corruption?
What a deal!
Anybody notice the ceasefire (= NO lasting peace just Minsk 3.0 FREEZE) and NATO troops aspect of this?
If I remember correctly those are the same bullet points that were already rejected 6 months or longer ago.
Stuck in NATO, but can the US decide to stop selling arms to the EU? I would like the selling stopped as the US gives hope to the EU and Z. Very dysfunctional.
The military industrial complex will be big mad should such a thing occur.
$$$$ more important than principles
More wishes, after all the work the US representatives have done on a peace plan. I would like for those representatives and our President to just go silent.
In “street talk terms”, you are taking the piss, tough luck, you lose, walk away, nuff said.
Hopefully the “counter offer” goes straight to the shredder on live TV with the comment that the negotiations are between Russia and Ukraine … just a Z-man has been demanding for the past 6-months.
Sounds like Europe controls this mess and it may be time to turn our backs and let Europe own it.
The Europeans will learn very fast they are in over their heads.
I remember being in a little dance club in Dallas late seventies. The kind with the little wrought iron railing around the dance floor.
One person in our group thought it cute to reach through the railing and grab the butt of a girl dancing.
He Got Caught!
The boyfriend was going to give him a beating so he looked at us asking “You have my back right”
We answered “Yes we have your back. You are about to be get a beating for your stupidity. We are going to make sure it remains fair.”
Seems reasonable for the EU.
time to hold on to your wallets America!
Crap Weasels.
The EU leaders sound delusional but are trying to do two things: stay in power and blame Trump for the lost war in Ukraine.
Bulls-eye, Buckeye!
I saw in the past few days that Obama was back in the UK, and seen at 10 Downing Street again. Also that ‘they’ have bought a new house in the UK. One would think they have enough houses, but more importantly, I do wonder if he was in on these talks?? And, my guess is he will never be arrested………..
Committing Logan Act violations, is he?
Boy one can wish and Hope and Pray that the Logan Act comes back to bite his a$$ big time.
A properly operating President Trump DOJ would already be loaded with multiple and there are multiple charges against the oblamy traitor in chief! Spit
This phrase means that they intend for the war to continue and are already blaming Putin for their refusal to end the war.
<<
And, as our partners in the negotiating teams rightly note, everything depends on whether Russia is ready to take effective steps to stop the bloodshed and prevent the war from reigniting.
>>
This is a repeat of the first failed peace negotiations. Have subordinates negotiate a peace acceptable to Russia. Get Russia to act in good faith based on the agreement. Renege on the agreement and claim Russia’s withdrawal as your military victory. Almost as if Boris rushed in at Z’s request.
The details will vary, but the fraudulent negotiations have repeated.
The only thing Z really negotiates is the size of the cut he and his allies will graft.
Anybody read Martin Armstrong and follow Socrates?
Dead Ukrainians are a Feature, not a Bug to these Blood Money Ghouls, not to mention dead Russians.
It makes it easier for BlackRock to loot Ukraine and to repopulate it with Muslim Invaders.
Isaiah 1:23
23
Your princes are rebels
and companions of thieves.
Everyone loves a bribe
and runs after gifts.
They do not bring justice to the fatherless,
and the widow’s cause does not come to them.
You can’t help an alcoholic until they’ve hit rock bottom and you can’t help anyone who is determined to start / spread war. The EU obviously will not be happy until all of Western Europe is desolated by war. The restraint shown by Putin thus far has been nothing short of astonishing!
The State Department should post a warning that Western Europe is no longer safe, due to the severe risk of war breaking out and POTUS should pull all of our troops, equipment, diplomats and other officials out of Western Europe. We can’t stop the EU and it is not in our interest to fight a war with Russia, that the EU has engineered for us. If they want war, then they can fight it alone.
Let’s pray that neither side feels the need to resort to nuclear weapons during this folly.
President Trump, please just walk away. This is a no win situation for the US, and the Global Deep State will not stop trying to pull us into a war against Russia. Wash your hands of this mess and let the EU solve what they have wrought. Negotiating with this cocaine-addled little dance just gives him the credibility, power and money he craves.
Sanctions for everyone who signed this.
You can bet that the Zelenskyy’s (the EU’s) proposal will be based on US troops on the ground in Ukraine. That’s not going to happen.
Also billions more in US aid.
My offer is this. Nothing.
PDJT
So, the EU is now threatening to sell off their U.S. T-Bills, if we don’t keep the Ukraine War going? When the EU was created, this Promethian enterprise was worthy of Dr. Frankenstein himself. The resultant Creature will be pursued by the peasants with pitchforks up the burning tower. EU, the parts of Ukraine held by the Russians are no longer Ukraine. Everyone knows it.
“The EU is now threatening to sell off their U.S. T-Bills, if we don’t keep the Ukraine War going?”
Does that sound like an authentic, trusted friend?
(or one that has different priority than you?)
(or one that is receiving un wise advice from untold someone? )
hmmm…
No
The EU deal requires a US security guarantee.
No sale. Sorry boys, you are on your own on this one.
Everyone at the children’s table has agreed on a plan. They’re gonna cry, and throw a tantrum, and “demand” to get their way. Maybe THIS time the grownups will listen, if we just whine loud enough.
Zero leverage. But also, intensely irritating.
Pull the plug.
“Is Zelenskyy representing Ukraine, or is Zelenskyy representing European stakeholders?…”
Well, the answer is obvious – that bunch of wussies in Europe is too chicken to confront President Trump – they’re afraid he’ll pull out of NATO and leave them standing with their tiny little peckers in their hands.
I don’t know about everyone else, but I’m sick of Zelensky the puppet. We’ll never get a peace deal from this clown as long as his strings are being pulled by the DeepState and the EU.
Did anyone not see this coming?
My position now is the same position I have had from the beginning.
We should not be involved. Not our circus, not our monkeys.
America First, America Only.
Will these comment make it?
President Trump, walk away from these fools!
Yes, those poor Ukrainians/Russian kids are going to die.
We cannot continue with, repeat wash repeat. Late them kill themselves, the evil that is Europe continues. History teaches us world peace is unattainable by human beings especially when God is not at the center the effort!
All wasting time til teump is out.
Wrap your “counterproposal” up into a tight roll, and stuff it wear the sun doesn’t shine.
Zman and the Europeans have no interest in coming to a lasting peace! They are jerking us around. Before we leave we need to have Treasury and what is left of DOGE follow the money. Create a report with names photos, and $ proceeds of the thieves. Have a BIG public release and publish it complete with back up documents on Truth Social.
It is pointless to continue this folly as long as Zman is in the picture.
GOD bless the USA, and GOD bless President Trump.
This will continue until we walk away. They’re playing us. Let them play alone.
N eocons
A against
T he
O rthodox
Enough, let Europe and Ukraine play it on their own. Russia still wins your territory it’s over.
Zero does what the CIA tells him to do. Both are on the precipice of becoming endangered species.
The mistake to elect a president that doesn’t care doesn’t have real ties with the people that voted for him.
Z’s and his Euro cabal’s demands to deny Russia its conquered land and to entrap the USA into a military support agreement for Euro peacekeepers are non-negotiable to them, regardless of the number of times and the many ways PDJT has clearly told them his unequivocal opposition to both proposals.
From the outside looking in, it appears that through no fault of his own and the determination of the Z/Euro coalition, PDJT’s peace initiative is doomed to fail.
When is Trump going to walk away and leave the mess for the EU to deal with. It isn’t our conflict. Is Ukraine really any better than Russia when you look at the their massive corruption? Let the EU find out what the world looks like without our help.
President Trump needs to walk away from all of this…including NATO.
We must disassociate with the EU. Nato, UN everything. These folks have the audacity to dictate from a paper bag
The Europeans are happy to fight the Russians to the last Ukrainian and the last US dollar. they are happy to keep the war going whilst the US pays and Ukrainians bleed.
None of the idiots who think Ukraine is winning can ever tell me how the Ukrainians will get their land back. That’s because they are never getting their land back, and the longer they fight the more land they lose and the more men they sacrifice.
It will be interesting to see how Trump deals with the Europeans total denial of reality.