This is interesting. The use of public genetic genealogy databases by law enforcement officials has been discussed for several years now.
According to information within a CNN article about the capture of Idaho murder suspect Bryan Kohberger, it appears this might be the most recent case solved -at least in part- through the use of those public DNA databases.
Previously the Golden State Killer was identified through the use of DNA using a public genealogy database. According to the CNN article it appears a similar process was used in the identification of Kohberger:
(Via CNN) – […] Investigators homed in on Kohberger as the suspect through DNA evidence and by confirming his ownership of a white Hyundai Elantra seen near the crime scene, according to two law enforcement sources briefed on the investigation.
[…] An FBI surveillance team tracked him for four days before his arrest while law enforcement worked with prosecutors to develop enough probable cause to obtain a warrant, the two law enforcement sources said.
Genetic genealogy techniques were used to connect Kohberger to unidentified DNA evidence, another source with knowledge of the case tells CNN. The DNA was run through a public database to find potential family member matches, and subsequent investigative work by law enforcement led to him as the suspect, the source said. (read more)
Many who understand the scope of data and privacy exploitation have often wondered and warned if it was smart for people to be voluntarily giving their DNA to various genealogical tracing companies. When Blackstone purchased Ancestry.Com the world’s largest public DNA database, there were several questions raised again about the possible misuse and privacy issues. At the time, here’s how Ancestry responded:
…”Ancestry does not sell or share customer DNA data with insurers, employers or third-party marketers, nor do we share customer personal information with law enforcement unless compelled to by a valid legal process. Ancestry’s commitment to these robust consumer privacy and data protections remain unchanged under our new ownership”…
Obviously, the key phrase in that statement is “unless compelled by a valid legal process.” An unknown DNA sample at such a horrific and nationally newsworthy crime scene, could certainly lead to law enforcement compelling that type of database search.
For the issue of catching the psychopathic criminal who killed the four college students, you won’t find too many people concerned about the methods the investigative units conducted. However, in the bigger picture of having a national DNA registry available for cross-reference use in other non-criminal matters, there are still some privacy issues to consider.
I have an acquaintance whose husband was arrested one day out of the blue for a murder he supposedly committed 20 years ago. She was caught totally off-guard. He, however, did not put up a fuss and went willingly with the police officers.
You have to tell us rest of the story please…..
The last I heard, she got a quick divorce because she didn’t want to be responsible for his legal bills. He’s currently in prison. (DNA evidence is very powerful).
…and it’s nefariously too easy to plant anywhere to frame someone…
True. One could also submit DNA samples linked with someone else’s name to low security places like Ancestry, etc. That could wreak some havoc.
It might cause temporary confusion, but not havoc in the long run. A sample of the suspected perpetrator has to be matched to the crime scene dna in order to arrest him/her.
ADD: When you submit dna, the company sends a kit to you at an address, so even if you give a false name, it would be fairly simple to track you down.
Hey Fred happy new year.
I saw that story on one of those cold-case crime programs, he killed a (Southern) California Highway Patrolman in 1958. The Patrol Officer got off a shot that went through the rear window and struck him in the shoulder but he got away to establish a remarkably calm, stable and reputable life in South Carolina. Too bad, So sad – no mercy!
Similar story but it’s not the one I’m referring to. My acquaintance and her husband live in Colorado. They’re around 65 years of age now. His crime occurred in the 1980’s, long before she knew him.
There must be 50 ways to leave your lover.
Statue of Limitations?
None for homicides
For a guy with a criminology degree using your own vehicle and inquiring about your relative via DNA testing is about as dumb as one can get before stepping off to stab folks
It could easily have been a family member’s submission to such an outfit that got investigators close enough to identify him.
Once they find someone in the database that is a high probability of being a relative to the unknown suspect one then looks at that person’s relatives to find a dork driving the suspected vehicle living fifteen minutes away from the murders.
This is exactly how they got the East Area Rapist, now referred to as the Golden State Killer. A family member DNA was in the database, not his.
It’s how nearly all these high-profile cases have been solved.
If I committed a crime and left my DNA ( not in any data base), I can be traced by dear old aunt Gertrude hunting her long lost great grand-pa……
I want my privacy, but, I am glad these killers can be traced down so accurately. Unfortunately, our FBI is not beyond setting people up with fake DNA.
The Lonnie Franklin Jr. the”Grim Sleeper” from South Central LA was caught that was as well. His relative was a convicted felon and has his dna harvested.
My thoughts exactly. It was a family member who’s DNA was in the system.
I have a scenario for everyone: You go to the store and by an item. This item has been picked up by many customers and examined and, now, their dna is on the item. You buy the item and take it home.
A crime is committed in your home and law enforcement (LE) examine many things including the item, which you bought recently. They find DNA strands from other people, who live close by. Are they now implicated? Do they have protection from unreasonable searches in DNA geneology databases? I am not dinging LE, however, this new technology must be used in a way in accordance with the Constitution.
For Kohberger, if I was his lawyer then I want to know where they found his dna. Was it on a newly purchased item? Was it on the murder weapon?
How many strander’s dna do you have in your room right now which was brought into your home in entirely innocent ways? If something was to happen to you – G-d forbid – then are these strangers implicated? What rights do they have now?
Certainly worthy questions, I would expect that much more evidence is sought and assembled, made easier by being led by DNA to consider those persons possibly present at a crime.
Usually the dna collected is either blood or semen, or hairs with roots attached. I believe that it was semen in the case of the Golden State killer, and blood in this case. it is common for a stabber to accidentally cut themselves during a knife murder. Blood on the knife makes it slippery.
I think the DNA from Jon Benet Ramsey was on her underwater. A very microscopic amount. Been ran through databases for years. I’ve always believed it was left in the packaging. The underwater was new. Who knows what country they came from. Would not be in our database. Just my thoughts….
Underware# sorry having spelling problems..
You can edit posts now.
“Looks at that person’s relatives…” is the piece that FaceBook fills in. Once they have a semi-solid suspect, they go to Google to find out where and how they access social media, what is said, to whom, etc. Then off to the credit card companies to find out where their credit cards have been used, how many persons are being provided for in the charges and the latest uses of the card. Then to the phone companies to find out who has been called on their phones, when and for how long.
Almost as if we live under a panopticon of surveillance given the illusion of freedom.
Those Bourne movies weren’t so far out. That stuff is real.
I wonder if he has any relatives in the military
From what I understand, he did not make or submit any inquiries to Ancestry. They started with DNA that was left at the scene of the crime that did not match the victims, then went fishing in the Ancestry archives for matches and that turned up family members who were similar enough that they could then look at their family members and identify siblings, cousins, etc, and correlate that list with addresses, proximity to the University, and the white car. The dumb part, fortunately, was leaving his DNA at the scene.
He probably couldn’t help it if some of the girls scratched him or pulled his hair. His DNA would be under their fingernails. Something he wouldn’t be thinking of. Also if he left blood at the scene from being cut or bopped in the mouth. The one dad said that his daughter had defensive wounds on her. That means that she fought back, some how.
good points — there is DNA obained from fighting back, eg under the nails, and then there is DNA from being there at some time at a party drinking beer
wonder which
Not the sharpest spoon 🥄 in the knife 🔪 drawer. Kind of idiotic.
I have a co-worker who was contacted by someone who discovered she was his sister. The newfound siblings went to Dad (who was married to their mom) and said, “we found a brother we didn’t know about. The lost brother had been given up for adoption and was raised in the same community, some of the family going to the same church, with no one knowing the relationships until 23 and me came available
We found an entire 1/4 of our family. My dad’s father was adopted and never wanted to find out about his birth family. It always bothered my aunt because she always wondered about it. We loaded my dad’s DNA on ged match, and soon after we found our long lost cousins.
They lived in the same area of Pennsylvania where my grandparents were from, and we had quite the family reunion–my aunt sees her newfound cousins often.
Interesting fact–my grandfather died in 1965, and my aunt, who was an octogenarian when we all traveled to Penna for our reunion, still had two aunts (my great aunts) that were living at the time. Pretty remarkable.
Of course, now I have to behave since our DNA is out there…
Behavior is not sure thing.
It’s too easy to capture dna from any person – and nefariously place it somewhere else.
It’s sick.
The prosecutors sell it,
and judges miss view it as incontrovertible evidence.
Yet, many judges refuse to look at election fraud, digital forensics for years?
hmmm…
Unless the person is Donald Trump they aren’t going to risk a wrongful imprisonment lawsuit by not having all their duck in a row before they go and arrest someone. There will be ample evidence that connect a suspect to the crime not just DNA. Unless the powers that be want to frame someone (Donald Trump) or course. But then a wrongful imprisonment case can be filed.
I give you… Richard Jewel. Framed by the fblie for the Centennial Olympic Park bombing at the 1996 Summer Olympics in Atlanta.
I knew someone whose parents actually sold a baby because they couldn’t afford hospital bill. Years later they found her and met up.
I watch the who dunnit crime shows on tv and the technology is relatively new. They can actually create a picture of the suspect also using DNA from the crime scene. Coupled with the geneology of ancestors and relatives, police can home in on potential suspects far quicker than before. I have never sent in my blood sample for the purpose of geneology but I have wondered if all the medical labs doing blood work on you requested by ur doctors or in hospitals somehow makes its way into CODIS. Does certainly concern me and should be looked into.
For Ancestry and 23 and Me, you submit a small vial of spit.
I did that, to get info on genealogy. I never imagined that it, my spit (DNA) could possibly used to arrest me for a crime i did not commit. However, with the current FBI and DOJ in power, I now have second thoughts.
You rip any tags off any pillows?
I wonder how much DNA was captured and filed when they were testing everyone and their pets for Covid.
as many a detective has quipped, if the criminals were smart we would be out of work
Yesterday a survey was going around on Twitter that was reported as having been conducted by the suspect. It was sent to people in a Reddit group for who had committed crimes but not been convicted. The questions were all about what emotions the person felt while preparing, committing and after a crime.
Most commenters suggested he was looking for tips from people who got away with crimes. My first thought was that he might be looking for an accomplice. 2 perps would help explain how 4 people were murdered before any of them could alert the others or escape.
I also read on Twitter that a local LEO reported that, at the time of the arrest, the suspect asked if he was first to be arrested. I haven’t found any source for that and he could’ve just been trying to muddy the waters.
I read that he asked if he was the ONLY one arrested. Which gives askance to, did he commit these crimes alone or with other (s).
The more education you subject yourself to, The dumber one gets.
Sundance it has always been my thoughts that the DNA database is going to be used to target certain ethnic groups too.
God Bless this Treehouse and thanks for the hard work you do to inform us all.
Any child born after 1995 has had their DNA taken via blood sample placed on a card and sent into the DNA database.
Ancestry and 23 and me are all about getting your DNA on file and has nothing to do with lineage
BS. My experience is otherwise. I have found long lost relatives and previously unknown ancestry using ancestry.com. Are you a member? Have you used or investigated their service before condemning them? I think not.
Just like Facebook and Twitter were created to connect people and not collecting information on people? We are not living in normal times. Question everything.
I question why the murder of 4 college students gets more coverage than 723 murders in Chicago this year?
Racism by the corrupt media?
Maybe, but I think it’s all about politics. If we were spoon fed the eating habits of every Blue State murderer in Chicago, New York, LA, DC or the border etc., we would have different leaders, a safer country, and the border would be secured. The media hides it all because it’s their Team.
White college folk verses colored HUD housing.
Because in an Idaho college town it is in their best interest to care about their residents and college students. They understand that they are the lifeblood of their town. If they stop coming and spending the town dies.
Chicago, on the other hand, does not have people who care about their residents and this has gone on for decades. As evidenced by President TRUMP”s many offers to send in help that were refused.
And it does not have residents who care about their residents, or they would have neighborhood watch groups out the ying yang, and would be all over the tubes and innerwebs asking for help.
It is a very sad reality that nobody in Chicago or the State of IL is interested in black on black shootings. So much for Black Lives Matter. They apparently do not matter to the black communities and the black leaders in that State.
There’s no money or righteous indignation to be had from black-on-black civilian killings. Police-on-black, or White-on-black killings are where the money/propaganda is.
I’d question why these murders get more attention than the government’s plan to kill Americans via the “vaccines” that aren’t vaccines at all but of course, poison intended to compromise one’s immune system, and the use of remdezivir and oxygen to kill seniors, and their condemnation of ivermectin and HCQ, which in total killed millions.
Murder on government level always gets a pass.
They could solve a lot of those killings in Chicago the same way, but they don’t spose to.
That’s not what he’s saying. Those sites provide what they claim but the true purpose is to harvest DNA. Don’t be naive.
He meant that those services u experienced are real BUT are also a cover to get your DNA on file. Everything they do is always done in hiding under another way to survelience us. They use a good thing to sucker us in.
As well as gullible people like Michael J.
It is not about finding ur relatives and such. It was always about collecting the DNA. Just hope it is never used against you.
I don’t plan a life of crime any time soon.
Yes, this entire Potemkin Village has been a construct of generations past with but a technological veneer. To paraphrase a key man I once knew, who apparently fell from his canoe, whilst half done with his stew … “When everything Americans believe is false, we will have accomplished our goal”. I forget bill’s precise words, and they scotched him afterwards.
….
You might also want to find out why the Mormons collect peoples DNA and ancestry.
https://www.dataminingdna.com/is-ancestry-owned-by-mormons/
Baptism (so called) for your dead relatives .
Just because you’ve found the service useful for your purposes that doesn’t mean they are not operating/were not founded for ulterior motives.
And, yes, can confirm that they are about a whole lot more than just an innocent ancestry tracker.
I agree. For awhile this year I was worried ancestry.com had sold my dna to China who will in turn use it to target their biological weapons.
You’re both right. 🙂
I agree, Michael J, that ancestry.com was and IS a means to finding out family lineage. I have submitted my spit to them. However, with this out of control DOJ and FBI, known for planting evidence in recent cases (J6, Wittmer “fednapping”) I now have 2nd thoughts.
One should also now assume that our medical profession and the hospitals do the same with our bloodwork. For a profit, no doubt.
Covid swabs were sent to China courtesy of our own government.
It’s not just about identifying folks, it’s about researching vulnerabilities in search of genetically targeted weapons.
The Chinese told us their plans in this regard quite some time ago.
Look at what cohorts have the most and least ACE2 receptors vulnerable to SARS-COV2 infections and that tells you a whole lot about where to go looking for those responsible for engineering the infection and the shots.
Also if Hillary Clinton needs a kidney and one isn’t readily available, some random compatible citizen will mysteriously go missing.
Hillary wouldn’t need a kidney, probably a liver and for sure a heart. She has needed that forever.
Please Lord, don’t let her get mine….
Absolutely, without a doubt.
Happy to report that I NEVER got a covid test or a vax. And will continue to do so in the future.
Rather, I will continue to NOT do so in the future.
Same.
Hell, my dignity alone dictated avoidance of those stupid swabs.
Only those babies whose parents were bamboozled by the white coats in the hospitals. You can opt out of all unnecessary procedures performed in the newborns. They’re not needed.
That simply isn’t true. If it were, then they wouldn’t have to use genetic genealogy to find criminals who have not yet had their dna submitted to a law enforcement database.
My son was born in the sixtys. After a rash of child kidnappings in our state the school’s initiated a fingerprinting campaign for students. We had to sigh a permission slip. I did and never regretted it….
You have to assume at this point that they are run by the feds just like every other social media is.
But for this…
The RNA in the toxic jab has been shown to alter a person’s DNA within 6 hours of injection, per Dr McCullough and others. Whether or not that would make a difference I don’t know.
But I think it is a legitimate question whether DNA on file with these companies would then be less useful, misleading, or perhaps rendered inadmissible.
Just one of those unforeseen effects that can crop up.
The modification to one’s own DNA by the Vaxx isn’t random mutations.
I suspect they will be relatively consistent and that they can be readily identified as Coupvid derived.
Too small a drop in the bucket to obscure anyone’s identity in any case.
Perhaps, Maquis. I keep remembering that we are still only two years into these jabs. Long-term effects are usually thought of starting at five years. We have no idea how things will look by that time, never mind later. Early days…
Indeed so.
I shudder to contemplate what horrors await those that submitted.
A few years ago I remember reading an article about how Chinese DNA labs could process a DNA sample at a fraction of that in the US or EU and wondered how many of Ancestry samples were analyzed in China.
From 2019: “The Navy’s top officer warned against using popular at-home ancestry DNA test kits this week, saying scientific advancements are making biological weapons more tailorable.
Biological weapons that can target specific groups or individuals vulnerable to pathogens or other diseases are a growing national security concern, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson said during a Tuesday speech on nuclear deterrence in Washington, D.C.”
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/07/03/mail-ancestry-dna-kits-may-help-enemy-target-you-navys-top-officer-says.html
Considering he was discussing biologics perhaps it should been a speech on Nucleus Defense . . .
Sigh, wow, I watched our govt and the utterly filth in that illegal pretend country in the ME, tailor dna specific damages from mid to late 90s. Probably far earlier but that’s when our agency began to surveil them. Design phase and anticipatory preps decades prior.
Some humans given the choice will misuse anything.
Gvt has proven it WILL misuse everything.
But it’s for the greater good….
From each according to his abilities to each according to his needs
Translated: we will work you almost to death and only give you enough to keep you alive for further use.
Work makes free.
Unfortunately extreme crimes are the excuse used by freedom thieves to gain entrance where they have previously been shut out.
As if the warrantless surveillance wasn’t blatant enough with the end runs around the Constitution privacy protections.
People sign on to these DNA databases to allow their privacy invaded. Go figure.
Wonder if those who are on database are cataloged with vax status in case a difference in DNA shows after vax.
You can bet any medical facility will send In samples as well for pre and post poisonous injection
Going thru a public database to find a match, then getting a warrant when you find one, seems backward.
Isn’t this exactly what they did to trump etc for years?
The public database searches are to identify potential suspects. Often they are not performed by actual law enforcement officers, but by volunteers/hobbyists/etc.
If they are performed by LEOs, they do not need a warrant because the information is considered public.
The warrant comes when the law enforcement agency wants to collect physical evidence from a suspect/the suspects.
A clarification of the system, not a defense of it… that is how it has developed.
It is like a fingerprint search but far more high tech
It’s a bad precedent, government and Blackstone are not to be trusted.
Do you mean Blackrock?
Yes
https://www.blackstone.com/news/press/blackstone-completes-acquisition-of-ancestry-leading-online-family-history-business-for-4-7-billion/
https://www.blackstone.com/news/press/blackstone-completes-acquisition-of-ancestry-leading-online-family-history-business-for-4-7-billion/
This has probably been going on for years….
Didnt Henry Ford say if we knew what the Govt. Was doing there would be a revolution in the morning?
Especially if they stopped taking taxes out of every paycheck but instead took the taxes at the end of the year.
Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh were smart men!
If this man is the murderer and ancestry provided the dna link, and he confesses or is found to be guilty then so be it. If you commit murder, there is no statute of limitations. Commit a murder 20, 30, 50 yrs ago and they link you to it. So be it.
Of course, everything has the potential to be misused and applied inappropriately. We all know that. The Ancestry.com data base is one of them. As is that generations old, social security card. Every credit card. All the phones, cars, smart TVs, and refrigerators.
Time to get real serious about our relationship with God Almighty. We are living in times where evil is on the move. I agree, we must be aware of all the potential control mechanisms such as the dna links and AI. Every visit to the doctor’s office and/or hospital, tests etc is one big collection bank for abuse. Humans are evil right now. They aim to devour our liberties and lives. Thank you for making it a reminder to be paying attention…very close attention. We sometimes drift…or I should say, I sometimes drift. Thank you!
Persons accepting abuses in the name of good are enabling abuses in the name of evil.
“Certain humans are evil”
I was reviewing the Golden State Killer. He had an invisible friend that made him do it. He also wrote about feeling tortured by his 6th grade teacher – so that would possibly be the entry point for the invisible friend. The festering wound invisible to the rest of us. “They” claim to have predictive technology that can predict you and I committing crime in the future. If food prices keep going the way they are that’s an easy prediction. Just one of many ways that humans become evil. Some say the shot steals your soul. Credo Mutwa said that the western shots stole the vision as in spiritual but he also mentioned inability to see alien craft (which some say is also spiritual.) I believe that he passed before the Covid shots but I can believe this possibility because generally stuff that they do has multiple wins for them. Your “Humans are evil” triggered me as we are feeling the same way and how much is voluntary I wonder. I try to always choose but sometimes I fail (with my temper.) Recently I have to re-evaluate relationships of trust trying to understand the magnitude of what the individual has suffered and question are these individuals still trustworthy or did their suffering break them?
Given how our federal government and politically affiliated companies constantly casually bypass the Constitution and legislated laws, the possibility of having your private information, including DNA analysis, be transferred on demand by and to any government entity is highly probable.
Since the house was known as a party house, wouldn’t there be DNA from many other people there? I think I will take a wait and see attitude regarding this person. There are just too many weird things …. something isn’t coming together yet in my mind. But, maybe there is more evidence they have not revealed yet.
I am with you on that. When arrested, Kohberger asked if he was the only one who had been arrested. Reports say he is considered a genius in his hometown, he was bullied in high school, he was a heroin addict, he was fat, now a vegan with OCD. He went to class after the murders happened but was arriving late and look exhausted according to reports from current classmates, considered off by others but friendly. Until they present evidence other than he had been there, that he killed 4 people without waking up 2 others – killing 1 like that takes some effort per experts- I am holding back.
Most likely he took amphetamines. When one is on that central nervous system stimulant, one feels super-human.
When someone is on this stimulant, it makes one lack any sentiment toward humanity.
One becomes devoid of any feeling. It also keeps one from eating and sleeping.
He had been overweight and then drastically underweight with personality changes, per
a friend. This points to amphetamine usage.
Is that you HRC ???
Maybe. I think you’re exagerrating amphetamine effects as they would affect anyone or everyone. Lack of sentiment toward humanity is associated with psychopathy. I’ve known opium users who were willing to attack people (I should say I’ve been the target of opium-users … that is scary ) Many years ago I also witnessed violent amphetamine users. But at the same time I’ve also known drug-altered people who had definitely all of their compassion instincts quite intact.
And thank god for my current (safe) situation, by the way. And to be surrounded by people who love me and love themselves.
Illicit drug use is evil, but it probably wouldn’t prove motive all on its own.
There would not b dna from the partiers in the deceased victims wounds and under their finger nails.
True, but we do not know that yet as fact.
Seriously, the only thing we know is that he lived nearby and drives a similar car and the public has already condemned him.
Yes, I don’t like that. When a crime is going unsolvrd for a long time frequently law enforcement snags someone, anyone, to make it look like they know what they ae doing. I hold off on judgement.
I have read that, upon arrest, the suspect enquired if anyone else had been arrested.
So, if he had an accomplice, would that be someone whose DNA was already common to the crime scene?
Say, for example, Kaylee’s boyfriend? I mean, just for example.
Being the fact that he has made study of criminology so seriously he knows the things to say to throw people off. I do not believe anyone else was involved in this horrific crime.
That is a vast assumption based on what?
Well, I read that differently..sorry. It may mean that he is wondering if other people have been implicated, like him, for no reason.
About 2 decades ago a co-worker was DNA tested as the father of a 10-Year-old child and had to pay child support. The odds that he was NOT the father was 1 in 3 million. So what are the chances that the DNA picked the wrong suspect?
Add that the FBI is now a criminal organization that has recently framed many people.
The odds are fraudulent. Bad statistics. Treat every segment as being independent of every other segment. Doesn’t take very many segments to match to claim astronomical odds. 2 one in a thousand matches and the odds are one in a million. Three and only one in a billion people match.
When you are looking for a parent, you shouldn’t have to play those odds games. It should be blazingly obvious that he was the source for half that kids DNA. Instead, they pretend 50 other men could be that kid’s father. 300 million people, half male, one in 3 million odds.
Recently?
I had a trial membership with Ancestry. I quickly learned that I’m related to LBJ on one side, and Tom Cotton on the other.
I cancelled the membership, although I don’t see how it could have gotten any worse.
Condolences.
Adam Schiff comes to mind.
😀
Pelosi
lol
Covid swabs / testing. 😏😉
Oh surely they wouldn’t do that, Guyski /s.
At one point there were only a handful of covid testing centers, with all samples being sent with enough personal identifiers to drain your bank account, take your job,dox you, and figure out what diseases or infections you are susceptible to, or “accidents” you are likely to have.
The more you are a leader, teacher, serving, interacting with other people, the more vulnerable you are.
Whether we accept it or not, we are still carrying the vulnerability of losing our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor.
I want to see all the evidence. I’ve seen too many cases where the cops find somebody to pin a crime on just so they can say they solved it.
I hope this is the guy that did it, though.
“For the issue of catching the psychopathic criminal who killed the four college students, you won’t find too many people concerned about the methods the investigative units conducted.”
Oh but I AM concerned, and so should everyone else be.
These sorts of cases are the ones in which we must be the most vigilant in insisting that investigators adhere to every constitutional and statutory restriction, not to protect the criminal but to protect and preserve the very restrictions themselves against erosion. Just as the most objectionable speech must be protected, so the investigations of the most heinous crimes must be done within constitutional bounds.
I will put it here again, because it is so on point.
I have never heard this. Excellent.
This has recently a new method police are using to solve cold cases ( I watch Cold Case on Oxygen). One ancestry researcher in particular is their go to woman for this.
Yes, I’ve wathcd that as well. I have serious problems with the whole structure of it.
A private citizen being asked by the police to do searches of private databases and turn the results over to the police, when the police would need a warrant to do the searches themselves, is only a short hop from the police hiring a private investigator to break into and bug your office. At some point a stickler judge is going to throw this stuff out and the result will bo a really bag dude going free. If they can’t do it right, they aren’t working hard enough.
The feds do that all the time, through parallel construction which Comey and Mueller were pioneers of. They illegally obtain evidence, and then reverse engineer that evidence to construct a manner by which they “could have” legally obtained that evidence.
Then they go to court and argue that the latter method is how they got the evidence in the first place.
Sundance: Here’s something we can look at for connections and motive.
One of the Daily Mail 12/30/22 articles mentions he’s a raving OCD vegan.
And then I found this article written by a former vegan.
The points made in this article surprised me (I had no idea that even violence toward others is possible).
Lots to learn here👇
The Hidden Dangers of the Vegan Movement
https://www.ethicalomnivore.org/dangers-of-vegan-movement/
DeSantis could pass a privacy bill that would cover digital and biological data collection. He won’t.
There already is privacy because a search warrant signed by a judge is required.
Privacy….search warrant singed by a judge…🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣….good one. Ask President Donald J. Trump about that one.
When you go to the doctors office and they draw blood do they check your DNA and record it in a data base without telling you they did? It used to be your medical information was private, HIPAA, but they keep changing the rules, no telling what they/The Powers That Be can get away with now.
Or how about when one donates blood? Hmmmm…
When you get a blood transfusion do you get someone else’s DNA? How does that work?
I don’t believe you would get DNA from a blood transfusion.
Red blood cells don’t contain DNA. And these days the blood is separated a lot better because it is better for the patient. In the old days, some people reacted to the white blood cells in a transfusion, and some at risk patients used filters or ordered special white cell depleted blood. But these days all the blood is now without white cells.
There would be other information on red blood cells, such as blood groups and subgroups – but not DNA.
Further to that, the red cells only live for about 3 months, so after that there shouldn’t be any left in the transfused person. And if it’s a large transfusion, it would be cells from a variety of donors. It would also have to be a major bleed to have more donated blood circulating than your own, too.
To a certain extent, yes, most likely. Search up “microchimerism” for similar scenarios related to permanence from fluid exchange as a result of sexual activity.
I’m sure as shit not taking blood from anyone else after the COVID kill shots are widely deployed. We are working with local medical folks on how to safely and reliably store for our family.
They are not supposed to do it without your consent. Pay close attention to everything they ask you to sign.
A lot depends on the medical center and, to some extent, state law. Where I am the local hospital will call and ask if they can “anonymously” submit left-over blood samples to a “research” DNA database (Answer: “Uh, hell no.”) but they use third-party labs for the blood tests they do and I guarantee not all of them are ethical.
If you’ve had any blood work done you might as well assume you are in a DNA database somewhere.
In much the same way that E-verify FORBIDS an employer from denying employment to an illegal alien, I would imagine HIPAA allows the government to do whatever it wants with your private health information.
Believe me there is a great deal of evil that could be done in the world by data in the hands of evil people. We have the technology to target many forms of attach to specific genetic classes. Why not design one that targets 90% of the gene pool of your enemies and only affects 1% of the gene pool of your side?
Like everything else, we are in a fallen world. The power seekers have become masters at fragmenting blameable actions among many silos or contractors who, alone, do not have enough culpability to be held responsible. They don’t even have to have intent — but just line up the incentives.
A key strategy of national defense is to not be dependent on anyone outside the nation for anything. In the name of greed and power, our legislators and now deep state are making money and gaining power and influence by selling our wealth and security
Our own government has allowed the development of an intelligence community that is made of minimally effective cells, but give the whole of the coordinating information to the inner circle. All in violation of many constitutional principles as well as principles of defense.
I wonder what are the odds that didn’t get the results from a public genetic genealogy database, but actually from a cvs/walgreen covid test database…
we all know cnn tells the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth…
In most cases government agencies do not need to compel private companies to turn over information.
Ancestry claims it does not sell information to third parties. Even if Ancestry does not, others genealogical services do.
Once DNA information is in a third party database such as GEDMatch, it can be accessed by anyone willing to pay for a subscription. LEOs do not need a warrant, just a registered account or a relationship with someone who does. It’s that simple.
Furthermore, the forensic genealogy has reached the where point your DNA profile does not need to be in a database for your DNA profile to come under suspicion. Forensic genealogists can construct the profile of an unknown person who has not submitted a profile based on the DNA of relatives. That has been the starting point for most of these cold cases.
It is a very powerful tool and has done tremendous good. In the last few years it has solved a number of cold cases and identified a number of John and Jane Does. That trend is accelerating. Within the last year it has identified unknown victims in four famous cases: the Babes in the Woods (1947), the Somerton Man (1948), the Boy in the Box (1957), and the Lady of the Dunes (1974).
So it the process has its upsides, but not enough people are asking questions about privacy rights. It is an entirely novel investigative system which has mushroomed with little public scrutiny, absolutely no oversight, and often operates outside the existing law enforcement system. That is a problem.
Also left unscrutinized is how other industries might be using these databases. For example, imagine how the life and health insurance industries might change if they can access the entire genetic history of a family. I can assure you the life and health insurance companies have.
They have the ability to identify family members, sister, cousin, etc. and then identify the people who have the correct relationship, and then rule out or in those candidates.
So there is the blind general search, give me anybody who matches this DNA. That would be like searching a fingerprint database.
And there is the broader blind family search, give me anybody who is a family member related to this DNA. Then give me all family relationships.
Somehow, they all sound like a 4th Amendment violation, but courts must not think so.
[The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.]
If they started with his ID from the car laid out who his family members were then specifically asked for their DNA, I think it would pass muster. But these are blind searches. Search everybody, no probable cause, even cast a net for innocent family members.
I’d like to ask OJ if he plans to use this technology to help find the real killer of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman. OJ promised to spend the rest of his life searching for “the real killer.”
Genie,
Best comment !
Incidentally, O.J. Simpson made his first ever podcast appearance the other day. It’s quite enlightening. You forget what a talented personality/communicator he is.
For what is is worth an accused innocent person can be cleared or eliminated by DNA.
Which is all well and good.
But did you know they also have the ability to manufacture DNA?
THAT should get a lot more attention than it does.
The present record of existing Fed LEO’s and Three Letter Agencies is all i need to know to not be happy about this.
Of course you want a murderer like this caught.
No argument.
Switch gears for a second.
How does a “layman” challenge DNA evidence?
How about electronic data transfer of votes over the internet?
It’s all about trust.
Pretty sure Thomas Jefferson is a domestic terrorist in today’s America.
I might be too.
One aspect is that it is not JUST companies and government in the USA that gathers and purchase DNA data.
China is known to have an active interest, and I am sure with it many other countries.
https://www.newsweek.com/china-wants-your-dna-its-no-good-opinion-1550998
If you were a nefarious and into creation of bioweapons it would be a goldmine to know how to sequence in such a way to kill the majority of a continents population. Or to know what sickness people on a particular continent are susceptible to.
People are giving it up voluntarily. Same as biometrics / face scans with those “I can look like a cat!” apps.
They are game-ifying biometric theft and most people are suckers apparently.
I still can think of more bad ways to use this data than good ways. I am glad they caught a killer in this case, but it will most likely be used to encourage more people submitting their DNA. For the greater good of course!
Also once we have your DNA we can find ways to make you better, altering you, merging you with pieces of technology to.. you know.. improve you and make you better. The wet dream of the Eugenics crowd.
I still hold some belief that people are made uniquely and their DNA is uniquely their property and not to reduce people to some biology product of ATCG sequences that can be freely distributed or exploited at will.
A compelling legal process…like being labeled domestic violent extremists by the Brandon administration?
Never did like those ancestry DNA companies, but one of my older sons did so I got my info from him!
This is my concern, too. Not that I have any criminal plans – but I can imagine bad situations arising.
My cousin decided to do one of those DNA family match things. When one person does it, the whole family becomes known. I can confirm that I was never asked permission. I’m not sure if he asked his siblings, but I doubt it. And his kids are too young to understand the implications and be able to give informed consent.
Another point – in Australia during lockdowns, we all had to sign in everywhere with QR codes, for contact tracing. I always hand wrote if I was asked. If no one was enforcing the rule, I didn’t sign in at all. Once someone came out with a device to electronically sign in for those of us who didn’t use our own phones – so I put in false information.
Of course, the rules said that no other departments could access the information other than the covid contact tracing people. But in Western Australia it was reported that they used the information to solve crimes and make arrests. I’d be surprised if it didn’t happen elsewhere, too.
And it’s a slippery slope. I’d agree that most are ok for this to be used for the most heinous crimes – but I fear that it won’t be long before it’s part of the oppressive China style social credit system.
If information is out there, it will be used. That is a certainty.
I have a story about these sites. My nephew decided it would be fun so he submitted his DNA. He got info about his ancestry alright. About a month later a young woman emailed him all excited that she has a family member. (She was adopted) She sent my nephew a pic and she looks almost exactly like a young version of his mother. (My sister) This girl’s mom passed away and as it runs out she lived in the same town as my brother. You can guess the rest. My brother was tap dancing his a** off but finally fessed up. As Gomer would say, SURPRISE SURPRISE
Yep, I have never “donated” my DNA for any purpose. Nor do I check the box to donate my organs in case of a life threatening event. I’m at the point where I don’t trust either medical providers or law enforcement at any level. Let’s put my trust at a questioning level for them. My distrust has been confirmed in recent years.
I wasn’t at this point years back when it first came up for donating organs but I just had enough hesitancy to not check the box. It’s sad to me that my suspicions have been confirmed in many different ways.
No country except for maybe Canada will harvest your organs before you are dead.
In time. ‘Death by donation’ is openly being discussed.
China does.
You need to read this website, you’ll find exactly the opposite.
http://m.truthaboutorgandonation.com/?url=http://www%2etruthaboutorgandonation%2ecom%2f#2918
A future Hitler type might have a use for such a database. The WEF’s Charles Schwab buddies at Blackstone seem to.
Indeed. And what if DNA testing advances to the point that you can get the results back in, oh say, ten minutes or less? A knock on the door from “authorities” for a DNA testing, looking for…….whomever. I have a Jewish acquaintance who posed this very scenario. Out of curiosity he submitted his DNA to Ancestry.com and the results came back 99.9 percent Ashkenazi Jew.
One’s “race”/religion was listed on one’s birth certificate and documents in Germany — and the Germans kept VERY good records, before DNA testing. With DNA testing, and the possibility of quick results in the future, the above scenario is certainly not beyond the pale of possibility.
The first thing that came to mind when this guys picture was shown:
I’m not an expert on tracing DNA lineage so this is pure speculation.
They found DNA evidence at the scene ( my guess is he probably cut himself while stabbing one of four victims ) his DNA isn’t on file but a relative of his was for a close match of DNA evidence found at crime scene.
The police then searched for an acquaintance of the victims who had the same surname, or anyone in the vicinity who had that name. Kohberger is not a common name so the search probably narrowed considerably right away.
You are assuming he is guilty?
Granted, I wouldn’t get a seat on the jury.
It’s going to take a few years, lawyers are going to make hundreds of thousands of dollars and be in spotlight making a name for themselves before it ever gets presented to a jury. Then after all that we’re going to find out if they charged the right person.
There are some benefits. I was able to use this information to sleuth out my biological family. I am now in touch with them and know my story. A DNA cousin of mine is helping offspring from the Vietnam war discover their fathers families.
An issue is that you possibly expose genetic family links for many generations.
Or the feds keep a secret database and have to reconstruct the identification by claiming it came from nebulous “public genealogy database.”
Exactly 💯 💯
Covid-19 swabbing test results then on to the DNA banking system
I have zero interest in having my DNA added to any database . . .
This is a two edged sword people. DNA collected to get a killer…this seems fine and sure it should !. But trusting govt to just use this data for just this…..sorry charlie. It’s so much bigger. Imagine a govt – not hard to under current circumstances – that wants to manipulate DNA to pin it to you or just track you down because you are not down with their sickness. Imagine that.
The abuses of the Patriot Act and DHS have blown my trust in ‘ just doing it for the right reasons ‘. Everything gets abused by some but we live in overwhelmingly abusive times.
Don’t be surprised if your DNA did not get stolen by PCR tests.
NIH Director in the Middle of China Virus Scandal | Canada Free Press
Former NIH Bond Villian Frances Collins was helping China collect American DNA to build a better Bio-Weapon.
Not to mention the cloning and other Mad Science.
Bioweapons Programs In The Works Targeting Your DNA – CD Media
(creativedestructionmedia.com)
MTG on Race-based Bio-Weapons
Cell phone data is being mined for crime scene searches. The DNA story is a cover up for the real way they caught this killer.
🤔You might be right ✅️
In view of the invasive staffing in all the social media companies.
😎I wouldn’t discount the use of collected and stored DNA data
Several years ago I got one of those Ancestry subscriptions as a gift from one of my relatives who was working on a family tree.
I stupidly sent in my DNA and got the results- one of the biggest mistakes of my life.
To me, it seems more likely they did a search for white cars registered within 25 miles of the house, driven by a relatively young man. Then show pics to kids known to party there.
Unless that DNA was collected from all four rooms, seems more likely it’ll be matched after the collar.
They just want us to believe there’s no crime we can get away with.
If he’s attending school away from his home in Pennsylvania would his vehicle be locally registered and searchable?
So all those cameras caught the car model. Then narrow it down to phone pings. With a possibility then zero to DNA.
This doesn’t stop crime but it fences it. Too bad they let the Capitol Bomber go free.
This perp is going to claim trans status so fast our heads will spin.