Amid our national discussion and evidence of wide-spread mail-in ballot vote fraud; and considering the January 6th role of the Senate to certify the 2020 presidential election; and considering a report from Director of National Intelligence, John Ratcliffe, is forthcoming with previous assertions of “foreign interference”; and considering five states are sending dual sets of electors; there has been some discussion about “The Guarantee Clause” within the constitution and how it might uniquely apply to 2020.
Here’s the discussion as best I can explain it:
[Article IV – Sec.4] The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened) against domestic Violence.
“The Guarantee Clause” – “At its core, the Guarantee Clause provides for majority rule. A republican government is one in which the people govern through elections. This is the constant refrain of the Federalist Papers. Alexander Hamilton, for example, put it this way in The Federalist No. 57: “The elective mode of obtaining rulers is the characteristic policy of republican government.” [citation] “The Clause requires the United States to prevent any state from imposing rule by monarchy, dictatorship, aristocracy, or permanent military rule, even through majority vote. Instead, governing by electoral processes is constitutionally required.”
Additionally, The Electoral Count Act or the Electoral Count Act of 1887 is a US federal law stating procedures for the counting of electoral votes by Congress following a presidential election. It was enacted in the aftermath of the disputed 1876 presidential election between Rutherford B Hayes and Samuel J Tilden. In that election, several states submitted competing slates of electors and a divided Congress was unable to resolve the deadlock. [citation]
Essentially, the Electoral Count Act (1887) requires states to complete their certification of electors to congress by a certain date. The conversation prior to the November 2020 election surrounded whether the COVID pandemic would interfere with the deadlines for state elector certification given the massive numbers of ‘mail-in’ ballots; and whether the counting of them would break through the deadlines imposed by the Act.
A combination of The Guarantee Clause (constitution) and the Electoral Count Act of 1887 (law), establishes the framework for some to argue a fraudulent 2020 election result can successfully be challenged during congressional certification on January 6, 2021. Thus five state legislatures -under Republican control- have sent dual-sets of electors to congress: Arizona, Nevada, Wisconsin, Georgia and Pennsylvania.
Let us be clear… There is little framework for this type of constitutional issue. This is uncharted territory, and consequently there is no body of law or case study upon which to apply a historic reference. However, that said, the issue of Director of National Intelligence, John Ratcliffe, producing a report about foreign election interference could be a fulcrum issue upon which “The Guarantee Clause” of the constitution may apply.
Here’s where it gets interesting…. The Guarantee Clause puts the jurisdiction in the hands of the political bodies, executive branch and legislative branch, to decide the merit of any state vulnerability in their election outcome. There is little, if any, place for the judicial branch to play a role.
In Luther v. Borden (1849), the Supreme Court held questions involving the Guarantee Clause nonjusticiable, meaning that any remedy for a violation would lie with Congress or the President, not the federal judiciary. Nearly one hundred years later, the Court sweepingly declared that the guarantee of a republican form of government cannot be challenged in court. Colegrove v. Green (1946). (citation)
The federal government, not the state government, ultimately holds the responsibility to protect the entire United States from foreign interference within the Guarantee Clause. This would seem to apply to foreign election interference. “[B]ecause protection against invasion or domestic violence is normally available only from Congress and the President, the structure of this section suggests that the political branches have at least the primary duty to carry out its obligations.”
If DNI Ratcliffe produces a report (prior to January 6th) that outlines foreign interference in the election; and if the argument can be made the states with the contested (dual sets) of electors were subjects/targets of that interference; then a foundation to nullify the electors from the contested states is laid in congress.
In this approach the electoral nullification argument would appear to rest on The Guarantee Clause; where the state election outcome was not valid – as it is not representative of a republican form of government, and the majority vote requirement was manipulated.
If this type of legislative challenge was to take place, there is little precedent for the judicial branch to be involved except to qualify what role The Guarantee Clause would/could play and to what extent the nullification arguments are constitutionally valid.
Again, this is all uncharted territory. However, there are people claiming this process could work to keep President Trump in office. The disqualification of the contested state electors under this argument would ultimately fall upon Vice President Mike Pence who is also President of the Senate and in charge of the January 6th electoral vote certification.
There is a lot of “if-this-then” etc within this framework, and all of it ultimately is predicated on congress challenging the election (still unknown); and VP Mike Pence then deciding which electors would be certified or nullified (long-shot); but that seems to be the argument some are making.
I wonder why DNI John Ratcliffe is taking so long to produce his report?
Last thought… I have absolutely no idea if this can work, I am just summarizing a set of theoretical arguments that appear to be surfacing. Remember, we all want the best outcome for our nation and nerves are frayed…. let us be kind to each-other in fellowship.
“One nation, under GOD“…
.
Latest on the need to go military tribunals route, from Epoch Times;
“Bledsoe, who is also vice chairman of the Constitution Party of South Carolina, said in a recent interview with The Epoch Times that he did not think the courts or legislature was going to do anything to investigate allegations of election fraud.
“So we really only have one option, as far as I can see,” Bledsoe said. “President Trump, if he’s going to save our country, is going to have to use … military courts, military tribunals.”
“President Trump’s the only one with the courage to do it, to do anything at all.”
From here;
https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-should-call-military-tribunal-to-investigate-foreign-election-interference-former-senate-candidate_3634926.html
Also, per Sundance;
“I wonder why DNI John Ratcliffe is taking so long to produce his report?”
Do we know that no report as of yet has been given to POTUS? He has stated that he will not give his enemies a ‘heads up’ to his plans- insert Sun Tzu here.
I am pretty sure DNI Ratcliffe has told PDT there has been foreign interference. Think DT is trying to do this without using the Insurrection Act but I think it may be the last card we have. We fight NOW or NEVER. If we fail and fight later it will be nasty chaotic CW. If that occurs the CCP wins.
whatever this is – the rebulicans arent voting for it
Many RINOs are voting against the president. We need to remove them. They exposed themselves. Wake up! Run for office and push the snakes out to save the Republic!
#RemoveRINOS
The Demonrats are demonstrating their expertise in vote harvesting. Where are the Republicans reaching out to vote “NAY”? Instead, it appears that the NV, when they delegate their votes, would vote “YEA”. They are useless!
And the GOTV team was all Trump people. There’s no enthusiastic ground team in GA.
Hard to vote them out when election fraud is this rampant.
Agreed, but no one wants to put together the list of RINOs. Everyone says they know who they all are yet, no list. I’m guessing that a lot of people are going to end up saying, “hey that guy is not quite so bad, he’s my guy (or lady)” Everyone thinks that the other states have the RINOs.
I think a list of those overiding the veto of the porkulis bill would have been the perfect list. I guess we can just go with those who voted for porkulis to populate our list.
Now is when we need to start the process to primary every last one of them.
Especially in the Senate.
Amen kick them out of the party. They must run as Democrats vs the Communist in the next primary.
And are you busy recruiting viable candidates in your area, and putting together an experienced political group to support him/her, and GIVE MONEY?
Just asking, be ause I have worked on SO many campaigns with people that want SOMEONE ELSE to run, but don’t want to do the hard work, and GIVE MONEY to fund the candidate. It’s a HUGE amount of work.
So… What are you doing right now?
My Rep voted against porkulis. He is a keeper.
I can donate to candidates in areas with RINOs, I just haven’t seen a complete list of the RINOs much less a list of Patriots to replace them.
House overrode the President! How disgusting!
I just emailed the president and VP:
DARE TO BE A DANIEL.
BE ESTHER.
Mike Pence, Ronald Reagan and You: A Thousand Years of Darkness or the Last Best Hope
Because Sometimes the Times Choose You
“You and I have a rendezvous with destiny. We’ll preserve for our children this, the last best hope of man on earth, or we’ll sentence them to take the last step into a thousand years of darkness.”–Ronald Reagan, “A Time For Choosing”, 1964
Our time for choosing in this election has come and gone.
We chose President Trump and Vice-President Pence in an overwhelming landslide.
But in a continuation of the permanent Coup Attempt and Police State Action against Donald Trump since even before he announced his candidacy, Democrats and the Uni-Party Blob-ocracy are brazenly trying to steal this election before our very eyes, in the greatest Political Crime in our history.
And not just stealing it from the candidates, but stealing from us our very Right to Choose and govern ourselves. It is stealing Us.
As the presiding officer at the Electoral proceedings, Vice-President Pence now has his own Time for Choosing.
Ted Noel: It’s for Mike Pence to Judge whether a Presidential Election Was Held at All – American Thinker
[Pence speaking:] “Since the state of Georgia has failed to follow the election law established by its legislature under Article II, Section 1 of the Constitution, it has not conducted a presidential election. Therefore, no “presidential electors” were appointed in Georgia. Further, “electors” “certified” by non-legislative actors pursuant to this process are in fact not “presidential electors.” The competing slate of “electors” is similarly deficient, having not been elected through a presidential election. Therefore, the chair rules that Georgia has not transmitted the votes of any presidential electors to this body. Georgia presents zero votes for Donald Trump and zero votes for Joseph Biden.”
The central point is that the VP, as the presiding officer and final authority, has the unquestionable authority to declare that the states in question have not conducted presidential elections. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth, but no one has the authority to override his decision. The statement says nothing about who might or might not have “won” the contested states. Rather, by not following their own laws, as enacted by their own legislatures, they have violated Article II, Section 1. Thus, they have not conducted an election, and their results are void. If the votes of all seven contested states are registered as zero, President Trump will have 232 votes, and Joe Biden will have 222. The 12th Amendment says, “[T]he votes shall then be counted[.] … The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President[.]” In plain language, Donald Trump will be re-elected, since he has a majority of the actual electoral votes. There will be no need to involve the House of Representatives to resolve a contingent election.”…….
This may well be a path forward. I don’t like it because Donald Trump and Mike Pence won all the contested states in a landslide–not to mention other states not even being discussed–and this doesn’t acknowledge that fact. However, this is War. I would prefer it went to the House, but given the Advanced Diseased nature of our Syphilitic System, it shouldn’t be left to anything that the Satanic Pelosi controls–or to politicians in the pay of China.
Of course, my real preference would be to have honest elections and the President’s landslide ratified the old-fashioned way. But we’re no longer a nation with the Rule of Law. Even after President Trump’s re-inauguration, we’re still going to have to clean up our system of Tyranny by Vote Fraud. And that’s just for starters.
We’re like someone whose front porch was shot up by a street gang in anger. Even if no one was hurt, they’re still out there, lurking.
Democrats and the Uni-Party Swamp no longer believe in elections. In their mad quest for the Great Reset, a new hi-tech Tower of Babel, they want us enslaved and stripped of our Rights and they mean to see it, no matter how many viruses they need to release, elections they have to steal or cattle cars they have to fill.
It is sad that the ideology of our civilization’s enemies and their collaborators have come to nest amongst us. It brings me no joy to say so, but nonetheless, it is so. That is why our Founders used the phrase “against all enemies, foreign and domestic”.
Like it or not, This is War.
Mike Pence: “I met President Reagan in the summer of 1988. I was a 29 year-old candidate for Congress and he was winding down a presidency that changed the world. It was a Candidate photo op in the Blue Room of the White House. I was determined to say something of meaning to the great man.
So I looked him square in the eye, and I told him I just wanted to thank him for everything he had done for the country and everything he had done to ‘inspire my generation to believe in America again.’
He seemed surprised, his cheeks appeared to redden with embarrassment and he said, “Well, Mike, that’s a very nice thing of you to say.”
Moments later in the Ballroom he took a minute to respond to my and others’ accolades with characteristic humility and optimism saying, “Many of you have thanked me for what I did for America, but I want you to know I don’t think I did anything for this country–the American people decided it was time to right the ship, and I was just the captain they put on the bridge when they did it.”
The American people have once again decided to right the ship by re-electing Donald Trump and Mike Pence. And Vice President Pence is the captain they have put in place for the Electoral Process on January 6th.
He doesn’t sound like a man who is going to roll over and lay down for this corrupt scheme to install illegitimate Globalist puppets in the White House. He proclaims liberty, integrity and justice.
In the 1970’s, when President Reagan was standing almost alone against global tyranny he said:
“My idea of American policy toward the Soviet Union is simple, and some would say simplistic. It is this: We win and they lose. What do you think of that?“
We think that sounds right.
We think it’s about time–our new Time for Choosing, once again.
This is outstanding writing Gipper. If we could get your comment to VP Pence I believe he could be persuaded. Your writing is worthy of any of the great literature written at our country’s founding.
Vice president Pence was robbed too.
One of the finest posts I’ve ever read, anywhere, on any site. Can’t believe it only has three upvotes. Sure hope others find their way here…
Lou Dobbs on Mark Simone filling in for shammity says some repub congressmen will vote against certification of dementia joe, while the repub senate will cave and certify.
Hope he’s wrong………
It’s up to Mike Pence then.
We will see if Daniel shows up, or Judas.
The responsibility no one wants.
I believe MP aspires to president himself one day.
And I believe he knows that angering PDJT’s base would disenfranchise him of that opportunity.
Ballots from the Electoral College vote from each state must be submitted to VP pence by December 23…
Pence then verifies the votes from each state…
If there are problems, such as the fraudulent votes in the 5 contested states, pence must notify the state which then must correct the problem(s) before the votes are counted on January 06…
pence has had 5 days in which to notify the contested states of electoral problems, yet, as of now, none of the states have been notified by pence of the aforesaid problems.
I do not believe the Senate has a say in naming the President under the 12th amendment. They elect the VP. The House elects the President via vote by state delegation.
This happens if the various electors are disqualified.
Of course, we will need one Senator to object to the electors of a state to make it all work.
The traitor, mitch, is working hard to suppress any objector.
Of course any senator who might think of objecting has his/her price. Right, Bernie?
You are correct.
Tommy Tuberville, who is not yet actually in the Senate until January 3, and not under the Turtle’s paw yet, is supposed to be the one Senator we need.
I would of course prefer 50 Senators for the motion, but I’ll take the one we need.
To their credit, evidently there is a growing number on the House side, including many of our familiar MAGA guys like Jim Jordan.
I would bet on John Kennedy on La. He don’t give a rats a– about McTurtle
No, Tom. The process is VASTLY more complex than your comment suggests. I’m writing up an essay describing the procedures for January 6th and will post a link to it here when it’s ready. For now, your statement, “I do not believe the Senate has a say in naming the President under the 12th amendment. They elect the VP.” is irrelevant. MUCH must happen before we would ever get to the point of the Senate selecting the new VP… indeed, if we do get to that point, Trump will easily win in the House, which will vote by state (not by member), per the 12th Amendment.
During the joint session, when Pence opens the electoral vote for a particular state (say) Arizona, we need one senator (or more) to object to that state’s electoral votes (together with at least one Representative in the House). Then, the two houses split (the Senate walks across to its chamber), and meet separately… two hours are allowed for debate. BOTH houses must vote to SUSTAIN the objection to Arizona, otherwise the objection fails, and Pence will move on to the next state (Arkansas).
In the Senate’s separate meeting, McConnell desperately wants to avoid a roll call vote, because he and his RINO friends want to get rid of Trump, and with a roll call, they will be forced to reveal to their constituents that they voted against him. So, McConnell will request unanimous consent to OVERRULE the objection (to Arizona’s electoral votes), whereupon the chair (VP Pence) will ask, “Without objection?” [The word “objection” is now overloaded] to which the senator(s) who objected in the joint meeting *MUST BE ON THEIR TOES* and state “I object” (to unanimous consent) which will defeat McConnell and force a rollcall vote on the original objection (to Arizona’s electoral votes).
THEN, we must muster 51 Senators to vote to SUSTAIN it, as Pence is a traitor and will likely vote against us on a 50/50 tie. But the situation is worse in the House of Representatives, where we don’t even have a majority… and the vote on the OBJECTION is probably *not* going to be by state (as in the 12th Amendment), but by member, because the manner of voting in the House is not stated in the statute governing this process (3 usc 15), so how the vote is done will be HOTLY debated… the patriots will contend that it should mirror the 12 Amendment, but the Dems will oppose that. THIS IS THE BIGGEST QUESTION IN MY ESTIMATION.
I booked my tickets to DC today for the 6th!! Seeing one, two or three million patriots surrounding the Capitol as they enter the building will make a STRONG impression on MANY in both the House and Senate. So will the PRAYERS we will all be doing as they meet.
Don’t forget the rope…..
We all know he most likely is, but we continue to hope just one person with guts will stand. I am ashamed of my countrymen today that there seem to be so little left that will.
Don’t think Sen Rand Paul will cave. He has come out and stated that there were illegal things going on and I don’t think that Mitch would be able to bribe him or make him any persuading promises. He is honorable and probably one of the few uncompromised.
Governors of California, Michigan, and some other dark blue states kept their citizens under lockdowns similar to house arrest, worse than martial law. COVID-19 did not justify such measures. It seems that President should restore the republican form of government there. At least, he should ignore the electors sent by corona-commie state governments.
My question to the ‘experts’ Fauci and Birx, etc is ‘where the hell were you in 2009 when my ER was jammed with H1N1 patients, so many we had to put gurneys in the hallway and open doctor’s offices to fit them all in, many of them children and young adults?’
There were no shutdowns of businesses or family members prohibited from visiting or social distancing or mask wearing except for us who worked in the ER! H1N1 was a pandemic also, it lasted from April 2009 to April 2010 and infected 45 million Americans. It was highly contagious.
These Covid mitigations are a joke and I do not believe for one second the so-called 300,000 deaths figure is true. Probably closer to 80,000 like H1N1.
It all had to do with the re-election of President Trump. And 75 million people, maybe more, know it.
This is no conspiracy theory and VP Pence must now show us what he is made of. I don’t care if he has to have his wife with him when he has dinner with a female colleague or friend–show us what you are made of when it comes to saving our country!
Trump wasn’t around then to have elevated Fauci and Birx to importance. Let’s not re-write history.
Fraudci was around. He has been in that position since the 80’s.
Said Trump wasn’t around, not Fauci.
Blaming PDJT is not a strategy.
Remember that P. Trump put Pence in charge of the COVID response. Remember that?
Where were they?
Weren’t they busy introducing stimulus, Barry phones, car bailouts, and Solyndra deals on behalf of lobbyists, IIRC?
I had the swine flu and it was the worst flu I ever had. It put me out of commission for a week and I was in my late thirties and in optimal health. I’ve also had c19, and it was a walk in the park compared to h1n1.
I went through 2009-2010 without even thinking about H1N1 working in a restaurant without any precautions. I barely remember it. I’ll never forget 2020 and how they stole our liberty.
Was with a vet uncle, that same year, who was at a local hosp and needed to be admitted. VA full, U of MI full, Henry Ford Jax full. Waited 36 hrs on a cart before he was able to be admitted. As I was leaving, carts and chairs lined the hallways with patients also needing admission due to H1N1. No shutdowns, no masks, no social distancing.
Thank you for that post very insightful.
This was not an election. This was a scam with the sole intention of stealing the White House.
We can not concede to this in your face attempt to just come up and take the White House.
The very last option the people have after everything has been tried is our 2nd amendment.
Insurrection is not the answer.
it may be the only answer!!!
What do you suppose will happen?
It is not insurrection to stop a crime. A high crime. The highest of crimes. the legislatures have failed, the courts have failed. The simple fact is, there is no honest law enforcement for all of the crimes by the insane Left Democrats over the last 12 years, and it has now come to the worst possible point, of dissolution of the republic.
What is your action plan that will result in success without destroying the Republic?
If Biden is inaugurated on January 21st, 2021, then America has fallen and insurrection will be the last option. But it is still on the table!
I don’t think that’s correct.
Do you believe that President Trump would support armed insurrection? He won’t.
Who else will be your leader?
Our founding fathers would have been shooting by now. This is EXACTLY what the Second amendmant was designed to protect against. When Government turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets a vote.
“The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force far superior to any band of regular troops,” – Noah Webster, from “An examination into the Leading Principles of the Constitution”
No, our founding fathers would not “have been shooting by now”. In fact, they weren’t shooting until they were shot at. Our founding fathers were living in a completely different country than those who were tyrannizing them. We aren’t.
You are talking about shooting at your fellow citizens. You realize that, right? Could be your next-door neighbor, your cousins, your uncles, your brothers. Are you ready for that?
We haven’t reached the point of tyranny – yet.
Stella, what IS the answer?
Only if you’re asking the wrong question.
Sadly it may be the only answer. Or we get used to living under Dems and taking what ever they dish out. They do not care if thousands die they already have and more will if this isn’t stopped.
If we have another civil war, based on the deaths then, there would probably be 6 million killed, and the evil would probably still be in power.
Perhaps we can think of another way.
It is the answer according to our founding fathers….THATS WHY WE have the 2nd amendment.
In extremis. Remember the Civil War? Are you ready for that?
neither is capitulation and playing nice with jackals hell bent on destroying the very foundation of a nobel society….not perfect but better than anyother. These ghouls do not respect highmindedness, niceness and fairplay.
Some of those “jackals” and “ghouls” are your neighbors and relatives. Are you ready to shoot and kill them?
No but if fired upon i believe in firing back and my jackal reference is strictly confined to the marxist/communist gang mascarading as “progressives”. There are no easy solutions I agree.
Is Trump so good that he is using January the 6th to test Pence? In any event this President (Trump) has confidence that is beyond this world.
He ain’t confident unless he has reason to be so.
Something else is going on behind the scenes.
That is exactly my thoughts. Also, I think he wants everyone to go to DC that day to make some major announcement other than the electoral vote.
Show of force. Elephant walk.
Everything appears to be an illusion. There is a lot of pushing going on behind the scenes that we will never know about. Trump appears confident where Joe and Kamala seem incoherent.
President Trump has info which he has not revealed. He has repeatedly demonstrated that he chooses not to reveal his forces and strategy to his enemies. Certainly he shouldn’t do so now. Take comfort in Sundance’s advice.
Was there something wrong with today? Why is tomorrow better? tic-toc
Yes – China must think they won – to offset in Plan B they had.
There is Amendment XIV, Section 3:
“No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.”
Most Democrat lawmakers and many electors are disqualified by this section on many grounds, including waging and/or aiding Big Tech in waging war on the United States, using the coronavirus as a weapon.
https://defyccc.com/techdemic-big-tech-big-dem-worsened-covid-19-to-seize-power/
Luckily we don’t use the Constitution for much in this country so we won’t have to worry about this/
Zhou (joe) Biden himself appears to be disqualified under this section also.
Zhou Biden. THAT is very clever! THAT should stick!
Is there anything in that framework where there would be authority to rerun the elections in those critical states where fraud could be indicated. There is no healing in any of this. Even a new election would not un-fray the fabric of this country.
Why would the result change? Nothing has been fixed.
Well nothing has been fixed except for the winner I mean. Why would anyone for a moment believe that the GA runoff races aren’t ALREADY decided??
It would serve as a template for one vote one person. New ballots and inked fingers would be a start
There is nothing. Moreover, I think it would be up to each individual state’s constitution to make such a provision. I haven’t come across any indication of a state having done so.
A link with regard to the Electoral College: https://history.house.gov/Institution/Electoral-College/Electoral-College/
“Here’s where it gets interesting…. The Guarantee Clause puts the jurisdiction in the hands of the political bodies, executive branch and legislative branch, to decide the merit of any state vulnerability in their election outcome. “
The very executive and legislative corrupt political bodies that brought us here to this point are the very bodies to weigh the merit of any state vulnerability, is dicey. Very dicey. It has been my experience, on three separate occasions, to witness the strength of character in men wilt at the moment required going forward in the agreed upon action to right wrongs far less egregious than treason.
In the times I have watched and listened to VP Pence over the years, and I’m just going to be forthright, there has always been an uneasiness in my gut in observing him. So, I remind myself not to place my trust in man but in God alone.
A Pence supporter once referred to him as “gentrified” to explain Pence’s somewhat off-putting demeanor. Funn,y but perhaps accurate, and not a reflection of him being untrustworthy.
And, I should add I have no reason to believe the VP untrustworthy.
The below scenario has been on sites on the ‘net:
Pence has constitutional authority in the Electoral count. He is President of the Sentae on Jan.6. His actions can’t be nullified judicially nor legislatively. So when Pence is counting the electoral votes when he gets to the states where fraud was perpetrated, he states they violated their own state election laws therefore a valid election did not take place and he sets aside their electoral votes due to this. He does this for every state where election fraud took place and then when the electroal votes are counted the count is Trump 233 Biden 224 Trump is re-elected. This is written in the constitution avoids any judicial or legislative end around. Also cuts off any RINO usurpation via the House vote.
Side note: much has been said about Ratcliffe and Trump “blowing up” the deep state and demo-commies with what they have, if this is true I am sure they have dirt on Pence if he strayed and wet his beak like many career politicians have.
VP Pence is so straight and narrow that he will not meet with another woman unless accompanied by someone else. This, to avoid potential lures and ensure no one can suggest something “happened.”
I believe this scenario refers to the 12th Amendment. And in that case the issue is the Electoral Count Act of 1887 vs. the 12th Amendment. And which one is the “controlling” authority.
I’ve read the ECA was designed to “fix”, and I don’t remember off hand what the issue is that needs to be fixed, the 12th Amendment.
Note that Louie Gohmert has filed suit against Pence – with the stance of the suit being that the ECA is unconstitutional.
So ECA is the obstacle, that prevents Pence from simply doing the above, (but I believe even that may be murky according to the 12th – according to some law experts). Attorney Robert Barnes had some tweets in the past on his twitter account regarding the 12th Amendment – and whether it gives Pence the power to simply do the above.
Speaking of Robert Barnes, he also has a tweet where he’s written a letter to Senators and he invites the public to use his template and go for it.
Lastly, I thought the argument made awhile back – that the election takes place on election day and therefore concludes at midnight on election day was a good one. No idea if Trump’s team has explored that avenue – although obviously that would require a court to allow argument to actually be presented and not simply shot down using whatever bogus method needed.
See link below:
https://www.thepostemail.com/2020/11/18/elections-undecided-by-midnight-are-void-9-0-decision/
January 4, 2021, the day when the new Congress convenes, might be more important than January 6.
It’s not exactly unchartered. It’s fighting words, like 1861 type fighting words. Use this and the war begins. Should we? YES!
“Our Lives, Our Fortunes, Our Sacred Honor” – Let’s Roll.
Definitely. No precedent has been set hat can be referred back to so it seems to me a better chance.
Insurrection… Is that spelled correctly?? What word would you use to describe what appears to be a concerted effort by multiple state governments, foreign owned companies, and Deep State conspirators to subvert a federal election through fraudulent means? This voting fraud in the LARGEST crime in American history and must be stopped immediately!! There are 100 million people in the U.S. that want PRESIDENT TRUMP in the White House for the next 4 years. He legitimately won the election, and those that try to illegally subvert that election need to be investigated, indicted, and incarcerated for a loooong time.
According to the man who was covering Rush L show this morning because of the paper that President Trump put into affect in 2018 any and all of the people who took part in this fraud are in Grave trouble and they should be afraid when this all starts because each and every one of them will go down because of that Document I am not sure about what VP Pence will do or not but one thing is for sure
There has never been a bigger fraud against a sitting President than this one, The man has gone threw Hell for 4 years and why he would want to continue on is beyound me but He is America first all the way and never stops thinking and caring about US the little people.. Thank God for him and his family and I just hope that he finds a way to work this out, Its a sure bet that congress and the senators are working against him at every turn but at least there are a few good people left in the house maybe there will be enough in the senate to help in the long run but leave it up to McConnell to make sure that if anyone goes down it sure as heck is not him..
A Dem on one of the other stations which i dont watch but OANN was showing a clip of the man saying that they thought that McConnel was the only one who cheated to get Reelected however I do believe that he would have lost had it not been for the President asking all of his supporters to go out there and vote for him. Which now its too bad he did win his seat for another 6 years My gosh what a loser this man is…
President Trump has the opportunity to be marked down with Washington, Lincoln, and Churchill in singly providing the leadersip which saves a Great Nation by taking heroic actions. That’s IF he has NSA records which unequivocally prove Dem and/or foreign manipulation of the 11/3 vote.
John: …and these NSA records weren’t stored in the Nashville data node.
Reading the EO a while back and realizing what you said it is very deep, almost anyone who touched anything to do with this mess can go down.
“I wonder why DNI John Ratcliffe is taking so long to produce his report?”
Based on available evidence, I conclude the Intel agencies are stonewalling, or simply refusing to comply, and he has no effective authority to FORCE compliance.
I DO NOT think Ratcliffe is “compromised”, as in a ‘Traitor’.
The extreme measures required to get him confirmed exposed to all interested enough to pay attention, how McConnell has perverted “advice and consent”, to dictate to PDJT who he could appoint to his Cabinet.
I think this inability of Ratcliffe to FORCE the Intel communities to comply with PDJT’s Executive order, also answers WHY PDJT has not ordered the declass and release of all the info on Sundances “wish list”; because PDJT can NOT.
He simply does NOT actually have control of what we THINK of as the “Executive branch” or more broadly the Buerocracy.
He, and his political appointees in the Cabinet are ‘figureheads’ and they can effect the coarse and actions of the Buerocracy, about as much as ONE person, trying to move a spomge as big as the empire state building.
You can PUSH, here, as hard as you like. The sponge yields, but its actual location shifts not a bit.
The Buerocracy we THINK of as “The Executive branch”, because it is charged with EXECUTING the laws written by the LEGISLATIVE Branch, is actually a creature of, beholden to and an EXTENTION OF the Legislative branch.
It is the Legislature which sets Department budgets, salaries and perks, and can ruin a buerocrats career with one phone call, NOT the President.
What we have, is an out of control, unchecked and tyranical LEGISLATURE, that controls the Judiciary thru confirmation and threat of Impeachment, and controls (as an extension of itself) the Buerocracy we (wrongly) think of as the “Executive branch”.
PDJT can no more order the declass and release of thedocuments on Sundances “wish list” (and gain compliance) than he can order the Joint Chiefs to nuke Bejing.
They would simply refuse the order.
I don’t think the Legislature does shit except take bribes. The intel agencies run the 3 branches. Probably have for a very long time.
Yes
Exactly. There are no consequences. I must say however that as President, Trump COULD have set the proper tone by directly firing and/or otherwise humiliating those who failed to comply with a legal order. Do it again and again till even Mitch gets the point and stops boxing him in. He could’ve begun by firing Sessions. Then Wray. Then Barr for not canning the Justice team that withheld exculpatory evidence in the Flynn case. So many other chances to take the tiller and brave the barrage. But alas the motto apparently was “I have not yet begun to tweet!”
Exactly!
I have not yet begun to upvote!
Do you really think Mitch would give in? I don’t.
There are many ways around a barrier – over, under, around the side, blast through it, etc. we might want the President to blast through it, but he’s taking a different approach to go around.
https://twitter.com/4Restored2/status/1343684263955324932?s=20
They are accessing the number of compromised elected officials and career..
Dutchman,
Section 1E of the EO states the information can be in an independent report. I interpret meaning DNI Ratcliffe does not have to wait for Intel agencies that are obstructing sharing data. The data can come from any viable resource (Navarro report, Sidney/Byrnes data, as examples).
At least, that’s my opinion on the interpretation of the EO, FWIW.?
And the EO isn’t “voluntary.” It’s the damn law! Enforce it President Trump!!
Mine too.
If you read the 270 pages SidneyPowell put a out the other day he may well have enough to open the gates of hell.
Let’s say everything aligns and Trump remains in office. They will once again start impeachment proceedings immediately.
They lost seats. Their margins are a lot lower than last time and they’ve already been exposed.
Which is why he’s doing rallies for those two idjits in GA. Repub butts in seats. Rinos are the worst, except that they vote Republican most of the time, unlike Democrats who never do.
The GA vote is rigged but it’s not a lock if enough people follow President Trump’s instructions and cast ballots for P and L. At the very least the fraud will be forced to be as blatant as on 11/3.
Respectfully disagree.
They need 2/3s to convict and remove in the Senate. They don’t have the numbers.
He has the support of 80-100M Americans whom are pissed off and ready to primary any idiot joker Senator whom tries this stunt.
Right, all President Trump has to do is state “yay” or “nay” in regards to any candidate and we will contribute money, make phone calls, post facts to our extensive contact lists; vote and encourage others to vote for or against.
And, if President Trump doesn’t stay in office we will do the same thing. President Trump is our leader and at least we have a good one.
We just need to go throw them out physically. END IT!!
Unless they have their own legal problems.
Hopefully there can be a peaceful resolution to overturning the election fraud. If the Democrats are serious about uniting the nation, then the appropriate action is for V.P.Pence to not accept the electoral ballots from the contested swing states. If the Democrats had such a margin of victory, why should they object? If you are doing things legally, why was it necessary to cover the windows in the Detroit election center to hide what was taking place? After hearing the evidence and reading the forensic analysis, there is no question that PRESIDENT TRUMP won the 2020 election.
If not peaceful, then unpeaceful.
It might be ‘intensely peaceful’…
“If Democrats serious about uniting the nation”… ?! Good one!?
Unfortunately, most Democrats have not listened to the evidence or read the forensic analysis. it is mind-boggling how out of touch they are with what has been revealed since 11/3.
Democrats, peaceful? Surely, you jest.
Thank you for reminding us to be kind to one another. I will do my best, and trust that others will do the same.
Don’t know if I have the characters right in the story….. but everyone gets the jest of the alligator giving the frog a ride across the river …or the Presidents story the Snake…..be nice to who?
Kind – not nice.
“Remember, we all want the best outcome for our nation and nerves are frayed…. let us be kind to each-other in fellowship.” Sundance
My motto is to always start out being kind. Then, depending on the situation, either walk away or a kick to the teeth.
If President Trump can pull this off, you all know we will go through another impeachment by the House, and I think there would be a chance that McConnell could get 17-19 RINO, Never-Trump Republican Senators to remove him from office. They will make up a high crime and misdemeanor, like last time. If Mike Pence stops the Democrat electors, they will impeach and remove him as well. Maybe I’m being paranoid, but I put nothing past the Deep State and Establishment to get rid of MAGA once and for all!
Obviously. You can’t win the war if the enemy is left armed. Trump has never been willing to go in for the kill. Fatal flaw.
Not yet anyway. It is not by any means over yet.
Need 2/3 of senate
We understand, but potential future threats are not reason enough to not do the right thing.
WHAT? Biden can’t even draw a crowd of 200 people to a rally. They are acting like they have the numbers and support when really they have nothing but fraud and lies. We out number them 10/1.
Pence is quiet, but forceful. He kept his cool and scored points against Stahl and Biden. I trust Mike Pence.
Mike Pence is too quiet. He should have been out there defending his boss. He caved on the same sex issue in Indiana
If he was truly trustworthy, the swamp would be in all out rabid attack mode. That they aren’t is a great indicator that they don’t think he will be a problem.
We all know the Dems/Libs cheated, so why should we be ruled by Commies for 4 years when we all know this, that includes the no count McConnel, and Pence, they know what we know, si either they’re patriots or traitors.
at best, 1 and 1.
If we truly end up ruled by commies ther will never be another election that they do not win. Nothing matters if this stands.
No way would this work politically.
Nothing works politically in this country any longer so no reason this ‘shouldn’t work” either. There would be enormous repercussions, probably involving violence. Or do you mean Pence would never go along with it?
Research “Contigent Election” I think if they decide the electors from the states in question can’t be certified and neith candidate reaches 270 electoral votes– It throws it to a contingent election where the house choses the president and the senate the vice. From the three candidate that had the most votes, So in theory Biden could win and Trump be VP..LOL Get rid of senile Joe and voile..Pres Trump takes his place. You may have covered this on here, I just found the site a few days ago. A person in the house has to contest the slate of electors and throw it to a debate as well as the senate. They each go to their chambers and debate 2 hours. The go back to roll call votes. It can be a lng process. Gaetz will challenge in the house. I wrote my senators and asked them to challenge in writing to throw it to the debate to present evidence. The house votes by state delegation not majority. That’s why the race in GA for the senate is key because that would give the senate a 50/50 tie with Pence the tie breaker. https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R40504.pdf
https://www.findlaw.com/voting/how-u-s–elections-work/what-is-the-contingent-election-and-voting-process-.html
What Is a Contingent Election, and What Is the Voting Process?
or maybe the house picks Trump…:) by state delegation
What Is a Contingent Election, and What Is the Voting Process?The United States uses an electoral college system (more about this below) to elect the vice president and president. Sometimes the Electoral College fails to give a presidential or vice-presidential candidate a majority of the vote.
It’s rare. It’s only happened three times in the nation’s history. But when it does, the 12th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution serves as an election tie-breaking provision. It provides instruction to address an electoral college tie through a contingent presidential election.
The Constitution directs that when candidates for these top federal offices fail to achieve the voting threshold of 270 electoral votes, the power to elect the president is transferred from the Electoral College to:
In a contingent presidential election, it is the representatives or senators from each state who vote for – and elect – the president and vice president.
If they can’t count the votes fast enough, it’s 50-48 with two vacancies.
Sundance, I think this section of US 3 code is really crucial:
If any State shall have provided, by laws enacted prior to the day fixed for the appointment of the electors, for its final determination of any controversy or contest concerning the appointment of all or any of the electors of such State , by judicial or other methods or procedures, and such determination shall have been made at least six days before the time fixed for the meeting of the electors, such determination made pursuant to such law so existing on said day, and made at least six days prior to said time of meeting of the electors, shall be conclusive, and shall govern in the counting of the electoral votes as provided in the Constitution, and as hereinafter regulated, so far as the ascertainment of the electors appointed by such State is concerned.
Electors have to be legally certified 6 days before they are set to meet PURSUANT TO SUCH LAW SO EXISTING ON SAID DAY without controversy or contest. As the contested States did not qualify for this, their executive certified electors cannot be considered official.
So there is no legal theory here. Electors from the contested States do not qualify to be automatically counted as per Section 5 above. They are in doubt.
Furthermore, Title3 section 15 shows that the procedure for determining rightful set of electors where more than one set is submitted:
” If more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State shall have been received by the President of the Senate , those votes, and those only, shall be counted which shall have been regularly given by the electors who are shown by the determination mentioned in section 5 of this title to have been appointed, if the determination in said section provided for shall have been made, or by such successors or substitutes, in case of a vacancy in the board of electors so ascertained, as have been appointed to fill such vacancy in the mode provided by the laws of the State; but in case there shall arise the question which of two or more of such State authorities determining what electors have been appointed, as mentioned in section 5 of this title , is the lawful tribunal of such State, the votes regularly given of those electors, and those only, of such State shall be counted whose title as electors the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide is supported by the decision of such State so authorized by its law; and in such case of more than one return or paper purporting to be a return from a State, if there shall have been no such determination of the question in the State aforesaid, then those votes, and those only, shall be counted which the two Houses shall concurrently decide were cast by lawful electors appointed in accordance with the laws of the State, unless the two Houses, acting separately, shall concurrently decide such votes not to be the lawful votes of the legally appointed electors of such State. But if the two Houses shall disagree in respect of the counting of such votes, then, and in that case, the votes of the electors whose appointment shall have been certified by the executive of the State, under the seal thereof, shall be counted. “
The law reads clearly. In the case of more than one slate of electors’ certificates submitted from a state, both Houses (separately) have to agree which electors were appointed lawfully according to the laws of the state. Now I have seen a lot of people thinking of this as the U.S. Congress, but the wording in the law specifies that if two houses can’t agree, then the slate certified by the executive of that state will become the official electors.
There are two conditions:
CASE ONE :: One set of Electors: Can be challenged by one congressman and one senator.
CASE TWO :: Two sets of Electors from a State: A Section 5 test must be administered (see above). If that doesn’t determine the rightful electors and there are electors received from two or more “authorities” of a state, then the legislature of such state, if both Houses agree, determines the rightful electors. If the two Houses of a state are in disagreement, then the State executive determines the rightful electors. There is nothing in the law that states that once the determination is made which electors should be counted, those electors cannot be challenged.
The misinformation on Pence’s role is made clear by reading the law: that he simply can confirm whether electors pass the Section 5 test. He cannot reject elector slates. By submitting dual slates of electors, Pence cannot clear any electors according to section 5. This essentially takes the decision out of Pence hands.
If there are any lawyers out there, please check my reading of the laws, but they seem pretty clear.
” He cannot reject elector slates. By submitting dual slates of electors, Pence cannot clear any electors according to section 5. This essentially takes the decision out of Pence hands. ”
Please excuse my density by clarifying this.
On 6 January, will We The People run cover for the special ops forces commandeering Deep State facilities in the District of Corruption and Big Tech HQs nationwide?
Makes you wonder why Spec Ops is now a military “branch” directly under control of the Defense Sec’y and President! More paranoia, or is something up??
Maybe Radcliff was asked to hold off on the “meat” of his his intelligence report til after the holidays—when more people would be paying attention. (asked by POTUS I mean) Just a thought.
Who knows what goes on behind the scenes.
Awesome thought!
Fascinating interview of Tony Shaffer on the massive election fraud and the Constitution. MANY background insights, and especially insights into the Jesse Morgan missing USPS trailer.
https://youtu.be/E_KiooAPELE
Love this guy, always have.
Hmmm Pence is scheduled to travel outside the country Jan 6th. I don’t trust him one bit. Not one. He is going to do exactly like article says and jet off so he does not have to deal with PDT.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/17/pence-to-head-overseas-hours-after-declaring-biden-presidential-victor.html
If this accurate I agree, he has no business jetting overseas during this time. I’m convinced, again if this true, that Pence is not to be trusted.
Another great analysis by Sundance! The righteous shall prevail. President Trump will win and we will know who are for us and who are against us.
#TrumpNation
Could it be our favorite President traded the Covid porkulous for McConnell’s help on January sixth?
No, McConnell could have gotten a better deal several different ways.
No, Mitch stands to gain much more with his old friend Bidet.
“If DNI Ratcliffe produces…[blah-blah-blah]…and if the argument can be made…[piled higher and deeper]…then a foundation… is laid…”
Nobody will allow anybody to look at the evidence for vote fraud; why assume anybody would allow that ifffy process?
You need to go to Washington DC prepared to kick butt, as the saying goes. Call it insight…
I “guarantee” none of this will take place. Only possible way Sleepy Joe is not POTUS on 20 January 2021 is through an autonomous action taken by Trump…and that ain’t likely to happen.
Well alrighty then, you sure are confident. Do you work for Dominion?
This jimmy harbs guy does nothing but make negative BS predictions with his always-wrong crystal ball about our President. An obvious troll, only here to spread misery. Pay him no mind. We will win.
Thank you, Fed up. Quite a few around here right now. Oh, well – whatever… ?
They tend to work in teams. It’s interesting to see who responds, almost invariably, to an alleged troll’s comments.
I can relate, it is all so tiring and for what, more of the same crap that has been going on now just on steroids. I have nearly lost faith but hang by a thread. Please, please prove me wrong.
The information that I worked hard on using actual SOS’s #s that shows extreme anomalies and % differences is now in the hands of data research teams.
I tried to post it several times on here with very extensive research but it was always removed and I’m not sure why.
Maybe the host page had a algorithm problem or CTH removed it, not sure?
Any way, I’m praying it makes it into the hands of President Trump, it’s that good.
Just doing my small part to save this country.
If I post it again, I will get a “Awaiting for Approval”, then it is deleted.
I would love everyone to see it. But…
Send it to Sidney
Try emailing it directly instead of posting. [email protected]
Our founders and those who came before us provided means of remedy for injustice. Our problems lies not with the understanding of the framework of law, it lies with the willingness of the elected.
Never forget, we got here becahse of the corrupt elected supported by the corrupted courts. The agenda is to bring America intobalignment with the UN and chinese policy of a one world government and the new age movement age of Aquarius. Which nobody is paying attention to. But the agenda is identical to the precepts of the Aquarian, aka “Ganymede” “perfect” man. It was a big thing back in the early 70’s in which a great many “elite” were coming into their adulthood and college days.
So what I am trying to say is, this is spiritual not political. Politics is the tool.
It only took a few posts in before the talk of Military Tribunals got started again. ?
Stick with what could at least possibly work like mentioned in SD’s article.
Thank you, Sundance, reminding all with frayed nerves to be kind in the process of courageous, warrior mode defense of our treasured nation and freedoms. While we seek wisdom, courage and tactical savvy among our ranks – many of us are also united in seeking Providential intervention, as surely saved George Washington and his motley crew from annihilation. On the banks of our own Delaware, we can yet triumph with the same merciful smile of heaven. God willing.
Pennsylvania Certified Results for President Are Found in Error – The Error Is Twice the Size of the Difference Between Candidates
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/breaking-pennsylvania-certified-results-president-found-error-error-twice-size-difference-candidates/
“Remember, we all want the best outcome for our nation”, really? So they wanted what was best for our nation when they let loose their two paramilitary units BLM and ANTIFA to burn, loot and destroy cities across the US? “Let us be kind to each-other in fellowship” so, to beat and/murder anyone who voiced a different opinion and tried to defend their businesses and/or residences from these thugs is your idea of kindship? “One nation Under God’… and who’s god are you talking about? The god the left serves is the god of the underworld. My God is God and He does not condone the actions of these democrat thieves, murders, and liars. What “fellowship has light with darkness”, “can two walk together unless they be agreed”? Capitalism and communism cannot live together side by side no matter how much you may want it. “Two men enter one man leaves”. I close with a conversation from Lord of the Rings. “I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
” “I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times.”
Someone famous once said something like it’s better to happen to us than to our children and grandchildren. This is our battle, now. Don’t shrink from it because it’s ugly. I pray President Trump gets that because the enemy is about to LITERALLY enter our homes.
“I wonder why DNI John Ratcliffe is taking so long to produce his report?” – Sundance.
Because according to previous reports in the media around Dec 18 (the original due date for the DNI report – 45 days after the election), career intelligence professionals (mainly in the CIA) were reportedly purposefully slow-walking the report and refusing to show the evidence of China’s interference in the election. Ratcliffe indicated that he would not sign-off on the report unless it accurately portrayed China’s role in the election interference.
So, with the fate of our Republic hanging in balance, both the DNI and POTUS are allowing lower-level government bureaucrats to hold the nation hostage and jeopardize our national security at this critical time. Are they both impotent? While it is obvious that anyone standing in the way of releasing the DNI report should be immediately fired given the gravity and urgency of the situation, POTUS again is allowing the Deep State to slow-walk him into political defeat and perhaps worse. Before Trump lectures others on how to “fight,” maybe he should take his own advice and do more to save the nation.
What the hell is holding Trump back from doing whatever it takes to save the nation? Trump looks more weak and ineffective by the day for allowing the departments he supposedly has command and control over to act this way. Sorry, but at some point Donald Trump needs to start taking more heat and criticism for the current state of this national disaster. He talks a lot, but is only doing a fraction of what he has the power and capability of doing. We are days away from perhaps an irreversible Biden Presidency and Trump is more concerned about Tweeting and MAGA rallies than doing whatever is necessary to save the nation. Trump’s lack of serious action are just as unbelievable as the attacks and fraud he is facing.
yep.
Exactly my sentiments as well. With all the power at his disposal, there seems to be a helluva lot untapped.
Retired Magistrate here: I have no idea how this is going to turn out. What I do know is that no other President would have fought this hard this long for the citizens of this country. It would have been very easy for President Trump to concede and just ride out his last two months, but that is not in his DNA.
Today on our local radio station I heard an ad about how much President Trump has accomplished, how he was winning on election night and then the counting stopped and the steal started. It was a great ad. Who sponsored the ad, President Donald J. Trump, that is who.
No matter how this turns out he has been the greatest fighter for our country in my lifetime. Finally, he certainly seems very calm, poised and sure of himself right now. Never bet against Donald J. Trump.
I agree.
Well stated Marcia!
Fight harder President Trump–or get out of the way! No “no matter how this turns out!”
Get out of the way for whom?
Have you seen any Republican in our lifetime show the will and spine that President Trump has?
There is no such animal as a republican with a spine…
Just a RolCon there… and a very clumsy one to think all the over-the-top anti-PDJT nonsense will change any minds here.. pay no attention… ?
Thank you Marcia. One retiree to another. And to Sundance for posting the interpretation of the Constitution etal.
In the last few days, after the dough ball of stress and disappointment in my gut over the election and holidays mostly dissolved, I realized it was time to reason, not emote. Have never belt better.
I have NO CLUE whether the people I voted into office in these last years have ever read the U.S. Constitution? I know one who has. And their lawsuit is with the Supreme’s now.
But it is not above my pay grade to understand that Jan. 6th is also the Epiphany. Am wondering who the Magi of our day and age are? I think I have a sense on that.
Jan 6th will be I think, a day for SO many EPIPHANIES. I am praying for our country and its citizens to not despair. An Epiphany takes time takes time to soak into the heart, mind, and spirit.
One Nation Under God to me means FREEDOM OF RELIGION, or the decision not to have one.. Blessings to all, and with your spirits.
To those who are relying on VP Pence: I am a newbie in these parts. A couple of inconsequential posts so far and one very modest donation to Sundance. I mostly lurk/read/learn from you much-more-knowledgeable Treepers. So here’s my question (admittedly undergirded by speculation about why Pence was chosen):
Pence was presumably chosen by President Trump as his liaison to the Senate (and by extension also to the House). Yet in four years Pence has been unable to persuade even one of his former Senate colleagues to recess the Senate. Has he even tried? And if the answer to that is No, what makes anyone think he will try to reject illegitimate Electors?
I am genuinely puzzled by the faith being put by some in VP Pence, while at the same time I hope that faith is indeed justified.
Pence is being sued by Texas GOP Congressman Louis Goehmert to compel the Senate President to accept Trump electors as part of his Constitutional duty.
I wonder whether someone needs to sue President Trump to compel him to take stronger measures and enforce/enact his EO of 2018 and fulfill, to the best of his ability, his oath of office.
Ah, standing…
Pence was a Congressman and Governor of Indiana, never a Senator.
Oh. Thank you so much for the correction. I feel a bit foolish right about now for mis-remembering.
So I guess I need to amend my original thought to “liaison to the Congress”. And in that case I guess the parallel question would be: what needed pressure, if any, did VP Pence exert on Paul Ryan and other elected House Leaders?
Again, thank you so much for the correction.
If Pence is indeed a Christian….how can he certify a stolen election?
With respect, I think inserting religion into this issue may be more of a distraction than a help. Indeed, how many politicians ARE faithful to their Faith, when the very essence of politics is “compromise”?
I think maybe the real question here is: is VP Pence himself convinced enough the election was stolen that he is willing to act accordingly?
And if not, will he be able to live with himself and face judgement in the end?
If it is deep seated within you to be free people of free will.
This is Our Time.
The Next Time will b ugly.
Only thing that’s going to set a real precedent is how much noise is made on January 6th. Then every day after.
The Republicans voted faster on Yea to pass HR 6395 over the objection of the President. The RINOs are on record to be replaced by true patriots. Engage in politics and run for office patriots!!!
#RemoveRINOs
Is anyone passing around the list of these traitors yet?
This entire argument is facially valid, but it rests on a very very thin reed. The Electoral Count Act specifies a procedure for determining disputed electoral votes on January 6. The votes would have to be objected to by a member of both cambers of Congress. Then the Senate and the House would both hold a vote, and only if both chambers vote to reject a state’s electoral vote would they be rejected. Obviously, with the DEMs in control of the House, not to mention the RINO Senate, this would not end well for Trump. However, the January 6 stratagem relies upon the premise that the Electoral Count Act is unconstitutional, because it conflicts with the language of the Constitution. That is a “valid argument,” but so was the argument that Obama was disqualified by not being a natural born citizen because his dad was not a citizen. It is a valid argument but will not be a winning argument. The language that the Electoral Count Act purports to conflict with the 12th Amendment is: “The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted” The entire stratagem relies on the interpretation that this clause gives the VP plenary power to reject certified electoral votes. It certainly does not state that. The Constitution only says that the VP will open the votes. It doesn’t even say that the VP will count the votes. It uses the passive voice that the votes shall be counted. It could be argued that his power to open the votes presumes the power to count them too, and thus he is the one who can reject the votes if there is a dispute, but there in NOTHING in the Constitution that states that. It could easily be argued that since the VP must open the votes in the presence of Congress and the votes are then (passive voice) counted that the VP and Congress together are required to count the votes. That would give Congress the right to determine disputed votes just like stated in the Electoral Count Act. The Constitution is just silent in this regard, but given this thin reed argument, I simply cannot see the Constitution (or the SCOTUS’ interpretation of the Constitution) giving the authority to disqualify electoral votes and potentially disenfranchising millions of voters to a single person who may politically benefit from the decision. It is just not going to happen.
There was always a remedy for the fraud. It was never in the courts. It will not be in Congress on January 6. It is and always has been exclusively in the state legislatures of the disputed states. The state legislatures had (and may still have) the authority to overturn their states’ elections. That is the only way to reverse the steal. It was always the only way. Anyone saying anything else is trying to sell you something.
“There was always a remedy for the fraud. It was never in the courts. It will not be in Congress on January 6. It is and always has been exclusively in the state legislatures of the disputed states. The state legislatures had (and may still have) the authority to overturn their states’ elections. That is the only way to reverse the steal. It was always the only way. Anyone saying anything else is trying to sell you something.”
So President Trump’s warnings etc. never meant anything more than an alert to the people to watch the steal on TV? What do we need him for then?
For starters he should have started holding rallies in all of the contested states on November 4. He should have immediately rolled out one of his comedic routines where he mocked the ridiculousness of the DEM’s efforts to steal the election (dead voters, busted pipes, early morning spikes, etc.) and sent every MAGA hat wearing patriot home with instruction to bang on their state legislator’s desk until they agreed to vote to overturn the election. Instead, he did next to nothing for a month and a day, only to emerge on December 5 to campaign for the two GA GOPe-approved Senate candidates.
He needed to immediately apply unrelenting political pressure on those GOP dominated state legislatures. Instead, he a Rudy tilted at various legal windmills looking for a dues ex machina. The SCOTUS was never going to deliver the election. That just gave false hope and allowed the state legislators an excuse to disregard their sole duty and responsibility.
I happen to agree and I’m sure I posted this in early November that he needed to apply pressure and keep campaigning – because the election wasn’t “over”.
If the election isn’t over, why stop campaigning?
Then again, I also said he should have SACKED Jeff Sessions when he recused. So what do I know.
I’m not sure it is the only way but certainly getting the legislatures to do the right thing would be the cleanest way – decertifying Biden and certifying for Trump. Not sure if it’s too late for them to do that or not. Avoids having to deal with all discussed here which is full of ifs as you note. That is why Trump’s team’s strategy with the legislatures was a good one.
Some of them are too stubborn and/or bought and paid for unfortunately to get them to move.
The courts, if not corrupted, would have been a good route as well. The Supreme Court (probably purposely) made a mess of the PA issue from the start by not hearing the case.
All other scenarios being discussed, as the one we are discussing here, do rely on lots of ifs and individuals doing the right thing.
The President may have other scenarios he is working but we don’t know.
God is still in the miracle business and so, if you are so inclined, keep on praying.
you are wrong…
“The Senate and the House would both hold a vote, and only if both chambers vote to reject a state’s electoral vote would they be rejected.”
Once objection takes place, they have to 100% agree on a decision or the votes are rejected. This allow for some negotiation before it being final.
I agree.
Will the States do anything? It is increasingly unlikely.
But, it remains possible – particularly in Wisconsin, Arizona & Georgia. Fact is, President Trump needs the legislatures of all 3 to convene and certify the pro-Trump electors to give VP Pence something to work with on January 6.
The only other remedy I can see is an appeal to the Supreme Court to delay the counting of the votes while electoral lawsuits are worked through. There is no reason the counting of the votes could not in fact be delayed for a month as far as I can see.
Why not count the votes in February if that will entail getting them right. The downside is this (likely) means (Acting) President Pelosi on January 20…
Whether this works or not should not be an academic argument. It boils down to, very simply, a constitutional republic cannot stand without the firm foundation of legitimate elections where everybody’s vote counts. The reason this is uncharted territory is because the constitution takes for granted that Americans will abide by it. When the system becomes corrupt, the constitution is nothing more than parchment and ink, thereby making it easy to create justifications for ignoring the fraud and pretend nothing happened.
The Vice President MUST take a stand to protect and defend our constitution and not be intimidated by the corrupt system’s desire to kick the can down the road to the next election — an election nobody would trust. The loss of trust in the system is what creates cynicism in the political process, and people disengage from the process. Politics is defined as the relationship between people and their government and the ballot box is the heart of the process where our representatives petition us for our vote, thereby granting our consent to be governed. When that is taken away and replaced with cynicism what do we get?
Tyranny.
Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams
Did it ever occur to people that Adams wasn’t kidding? The Constitution is INADEQUATE for the governance of an immoral people.
Anything confusing about that? Now you know why it’s not working.
Since early 2000, elections are now purely political processes, completely independent of the courts.
When will anyone notice this shift?
if we’re pinning hope on a report from the DNI in order to give Mike Pence justification/cover to stand up in front of the world and reject electors then the country is lost. No way the intel ‘community’ of bureaucrat fan-belt inspectors will come through for integrity and fair elections. These are the same people who falsified and politicized reports to get us in the Iraq war (and, frankly who knows what else kind of lies).
The real remedy is via the state legislatures who have the 100% authority to name electors, doesn’t matter if Roy Orbison won as a write-in candidate 5 million to 1 in Georgia, the Georgia legislature can say ‘thanks, but we’re sending our electors to Donald J. Trump’.
The Western Journal is presenting this memorandum, written by two prominent conservative legal scholars, essentially verbatim, with only enough editing to format it for the Op-Ed section of our website. This is the second memo by Messrs. Olson and McSweeney to be published exclusively by The Western Journal, and it, like the first, outlines a possible legal strategy for the Trump campaign to follow in the coming weeks. Prior to its publication here, it was sent to President Trump. — Ed. note
https://www.westernjournal.com/twj-exclusive-bombshell-new-legal-memo-giving-trump-supporters-hope-christmas-eve/
PA Lawmakers: Numbers Don’t Add Up, Certification of Presidential Results Premature and In Error
https://www.repdiamond.com/News/18754/Latest-News/PA-Lawmakers-Numbers-Don%E2%80%99t-Add-Up,-Certification-of-Presidential-Results-Premature-and-In-Error
Reading this article makes what Barr and the democons did/failed to do, the most egregious act of civil treason in our long history.
This includes mayors, governors, States Attorneys General, cingress, and the Judiciary, regardless of political affiliation.
They failed to secure for the citizens of this country our right to a Republican Form of Government, and it must not stand.
I have long struggled with what our response should be if this election is stolen, and I’ve decided I will not sit behind my keyboard, G-d willing, when we finally rise to take back our country.
And the sooner President Trump rides to the front of the army on a white horse, or gets out of the way, the better.
Who knows, but possibly President Trump has other plans that do not rely on what has been discussed openly to date.
And he is choosing to exhaust all state legislature/court options first before making the difficult decision of some potentially drastic, but necessary action.
I don’t know anymore than you – just something to think about.
Bottom line, we all know this cannot stand and so we must do what we can do as well.
*congress not cingress…