Sunday Talks – Gordon Chang Discusses China, North Korea and Hong Kong Freedom as a Contagion…

Gordon Chang appears on Fox News with Charles Payne (filling in for Bartiromo) to discuss the downstream consequences from the G20 meeting between President Trump and Chinese Chairman Xi Jinping.

While he generally frames the picture accurately, lately Chang has been hit or miss.  He accurately outlines how a win/win trade deal is not possible from the perspective of Beijing and their zero-sum outlook; however, he misses on the issues around Huawei; misses the entire hostage dynamic with Kim Jong Un; and then hits again on Hong Kong.

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♦ On China President Trump appears to be working on a complete and total decoupling from the U.S. However, there are steps required in the interim that are in flux (EU and USMCA). Once those matters are resolved we will likely see the decoupling.
♦ On North Korea, just because DPRK state media spouts something doesn’t mean Kim Jong-Un has any control over it.  Beijing has majority influence over DPRK officials.
♦ On Hong Kong, after the Kim hostage rescue; and while the China decoupling is underway; we can expect Hong Kong to be a larger part of Trump’s Indo-Pacific initiative.

This entry was posted in Big Government, China, Communist, Donald Trump, Economy, Election 2020, G20 - 2019 Osaka, Hong Kong, media bias, President Trump, Trade Deal, Uncategorized, US dept of agriculture, US Treasury, USA. Bookmark the permalink.

70 Responses to Sunday Talks – Gordon Chang Discusses China, North Korea and Hong Kong Freedom as a Contagion…

  1. bertdilbert says:

    I am waiting for Trump to lob the bomb of the islands in the South China Sea as part of the trade deal. That will start a new round of exodus.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Dutchman says:

      bertdilbert,
      PDJT has a whole HOST of bombs in his arsenal, he is just getting started! Since he can’t get the FED to cooperate, he can require CCP to stop manipulating their currency, he can bring up the islands, oh, and require any trade agreements he makes with others like EU to include provisions addressing China.
      (Basically you can trade with THEM, or you can trade,with US, but you CAN’T do both,…well I’m sure BKR can give you a pretty comprehensive list, LOL!

      And they got WHAT, to lob back? Tradewise, they got zip, nada, zilch.

      Politically, muh russia failed. Obstruction or perjury trap, failed.
      Impeachment has failed.

      ALL CCP can HOPE for (they don’t pray) is PDJT loses in 2020. I REALLY don’t see CCP control of China surviving to 2024.
      BIGGER they are, the HARDER they fall.

      Liked by 10 people

      • bertdilbert says:

        What I am looking for is something to get added so that China can win that extra item and walk away and claim a win. Right now, I see nothing China gets to keep that appears to be a win. Loosing NK and paying tariffs does not look anything lie a win is there for political purposes.

        Trump needs to add a briar patch or something for China.

        Like

        • Dutchman says:

          No ‘wins’ for CCP. No ‘saving face’ for Xi, instead he loses his *ss, and unless he manages a peaceful transition of power, maybe his life.

          Xi is right in his zero sum game view; there can be NO “Co-existence between centralised economy Conmunism, and free market Capitalism.

          And it matters not a WHIT that Capitalism would be willing to co-exist, Conmunism sees it as an existential battle.

          You see it with CCP, you see it with Pelosi; same pig headed refusal to concede, keep coming, by any means necesary cheating, lieing mischaracterising, broken commitments.

          Screw CCP, and face saving. Rub their faces in it, and pants them, in front of the whole world. Does anyone think if the situation were reversed, that Xi would be staying up late, worrying about how to ‘allow PDJT to save face’?

          Crush them, slowly so we can get all the juice ($) out of them they have been stealing from us. IMHO

          Liked by 12 people

          • yucki says:

            You just KNOW that the ChiComs will do all they can to promote whoever ends up running against PT. Migrant caravans, market jitters, BAMN.

            In league with all our enemies, foreign and domestic.
            So, well said:
            Screw CCP, and face saving. Rub their faces in it, and pants them, in front of the whole world.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Great post, Dutchman.

            “Crush them, slowly so we can get all the juice ($) out of them they have been stealing from us.”

            … POTUS will string this out to avoid triggering a kinetic Chinese response as well, although any visibly malevolent actions from Xi would no doubt trigger an ACCELERATED EXODUS!

            Looking forward to what Sundance is anticipating from POTUS, RE Hong Kong.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Dutchman says:

              I don’t foresee a kinetic responce, beyond feints at most.
              Soviet Union didn’t resort to bullets, CCP won’t either.

              HOW can you go to war with a country that buys all your crap?
              And, if they gradually STOP buying your crap, how can you AFFORD to go to war?

              And what do you say? “We’re gonna keep attacking you, unless you buy our crap again?”

              Proxies are nutralised, direct action doesn’t achieve anything. I think HK MAY be wrested free, depending on how soon Chinas economy, which is,quite frail collapses.

              Liked by 4 people

              • progpoker says:

                HOW can you go to war with a country that buys all your crap?
                And, if they gradually STOP buying your crap, how can you AFFORD to go to war?

                And what do you say? “We’re gonna keep attacking you, unless you buy our crap again?”

                That made me LOL!! I’ve thought the same!!!

                Like

            • Dutchman says:

              I do agree with what Chang said, regarding the HK protests getting back to mainland, through mainland tourists.
              Brutal totalitarian dictatorship can NOT appear weak, or appear to vaccilate or back down,…EVER.

              IT is the DEATH KNELL for a dictatorship. Incompetent, yes. Corrupt, certainly. But it CAN NOT appear WEAK to its people.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Looks like we’re watching the greatest use of Geopolitical Leverage in history, as President Trump concurrently Suffocates the Proxy, Rogue and Sponsor States on a worldwide basis … Venezuela including Cuba, Iran including Hamas-Hezbollah-Houthis, Pakistan including Taliban, China including North Korea and Iran, and Russia including Syria.

                Liked by 3 people

                • Dutchman says:

                  He IS creating some mighty big shoes to fill.
                  I think DJT picked up something from the beauty contestants; World Peace. “PEACE is the prize” By knocking out all the bad guys, thru ECONOMIC ‘warfare’ he achieves World Peace, instead of whirled peas like the neocons, with their endless wars.

                  Liked by 3 people

          • And by Crushing CCP we are doing it like stomping grapes in a pigéage à, “punch down”…And by de-coupling Wall Street, the FED from the Chinese and have Main Street come back to life means the Chinese DO NOT CONTROL OUR ECONOMY AND OUR CONGRESS!!! Gonna be a lotta “poor” congressmen!!!!!!

            Liked by 1 person

            • Dutchman says:

              Well, the Congressman will still (probably) be ‘owned’, just not by China, and Globalist multinationals.
              Lobbyists will funnel $ to them from main street, instead.
              In effect WE will ‘own’ them?

              Liked by 1 person

              • Even the “boys” not in the sacks!!! Right now there are none that have them in the right place!!!

                Like

                • Dutchman says:

                  Who says “child prostitution” is limited to girls, or ‘straight’ sex?
                  We are just seeing the tip of the iceberg, and so far only the ‘straight’ version.
                  “The Two COREYS, in Hollyweird. Corey is a BOYS name,…prepare by stocking up on pepto bismol, you may well be ‘worshipping at the porcelain idol’ (puking your guts out) if it ALL comes out.

                  Liked by 1 person

      • noswamp says:

        CCP WILL NOT LOSE. Tens of thousands of lives would have to be lost before that happens. They can be ruthless. Xi may not last politically though, although he is a puppet himself of the CCP. Circular arguments indeed.

        This is why Chang misses some key points, he is not looking outside of his own 30 year neo-con model for dealing with China, and selling his book.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Dutchman says:

          Doesn’t understand MAGAnomics key point;
          National Security IS Economic Security.
          If you have a vibrant economy, you don’t NEED to invade, to achieve regime change. You HAVE the bullets, so you don’t NEED to use them..but you use,TRADE in luie of an invasion force.

          The only way CHINA can compete is to not only open up their markets, but open up their SOCIETY; to property rights, freedom of thought and expression and private enterprise.

          Things the CCP can NOT have, and survive. Its inherent in the nature of Conmunist central controlled economies.

          CCP WILL LOSE; it is INEVITABLE. Reagan knew it, PDJT KNOWS it.

          CCP can NOT win, the only question is at what point are they forced to realise it, and how much suffering will the people of China have to endure?

          Liked by 6 people

          • noswamp says:

            Dutchman,

            I guess it’s all a matter of perspective. When you say CCP can not win, do you remember Mao? Do you remember Tiananmen Square? Do you remember the millions of Chinese that died as a result of their own internal uprisings? (For the sake sake of brevity I am generalizing).
            All I say is that history repeats itself. China is not going to follow our lead unless we give them a reason to do so. Our President understands this. You and I can agree on that for sure.

            Like

            • Dutchman says:

              Do you remember the Soviet Union?
              Same game plan, different details. Went out with a whimper, not a bang.
              And, EARLIER they had had the tanks putting down rebellions in Chekoslovakia and Poland, etc. 1956 was pretty brutal, IIRC.

              Its what Totalitarian regimes do (brutal suppression), but like going to war, it simply doesn’t solve the problem, when they find themselves bankrupt. Soviet Union COULD, theoretically have brutally suppressed the Velvet revolution.
              3 small, strategically unimportant little countries, the “Balkin States”.

              Instead they withdrew, and it was the “beginning of the end”. WHY?
              Because they saw the writing on the wall; that soon they were going to be unable to PAY the internal security forces, or anyone else for that matter.

              Like

          • noswamp says:

            Dutchman,

            I guess it’s all a matter of perspective. When you say CCP can not win, do you remember Mao? Do you remember Tiananmen Square? Do you remember the millions of Chinese that died as a result of their own internal uprisings? (For the sake sake of brevity I am generalizing).
            All I say is that history repeats itself. China is not going to follow our lead unless we give them a reason to do so. Our President understands this. You and I can agree on that for sure.

            Like

          • noswamp says:

            Dutchman,

            I guess it’s all a matter of perspective. When you say CCP can not win, do you remember Mao? Do you remember Tiananmen Square? Do you remember the millions of Chinese that died as a result of their own internal uprisings? (For the sake sake of brevity I am generalizing).
            All I say is that history repeats itself. China is not going to follow our lead unless we give them a reason to do so. Our President understands this. You and I can agree on that for sure.

            Like

      • Perot Conservative says:

        What happens if they stop buying our currency / TBills?

        Like

        • Dutchman says:

          Actually, since they hold those as ‘reserves’, the equivalent of a ‘savings account’ or ‘rainy day fund’, and since they are ‘bleeding $’, its likely/certain they are or soon will be ‘selling’ their U.S. T bills, to keep afloat.
          This is a bad thing? There has long been a concern that China could ‘dump’ their T bills and that others would follow, destroying our economy. Story that Russia urged China to do just that, in 2008 but China demurred, recognising it would destroy their biggest market.

          Bottom line, I think given the State of OUR economy, we are not at risk of running out of customers,for our Tbills, any time soon. Nor are we at risk of a ‘run’ where all countries dump their Tbills.

          WHERE else is anyone gonna go, to invest or ‘park’ their $? So, LET China stop buying, or even start selling US T bills.

          Like

  2. abdiesus says:

    Does this mean that you think Trump is ultimately committed to “Rescuing HK” in some similar or analogous sense?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Dutchman says:

      abdiesus,
      I realise you may not have been asking me, but I’ll weigh in, anyway.

      I think your thinking small. PDJT is trying to rescue the WORLD from the worldwide, perniscious and corrupting influence of the CCP.

      So, by ‘bankrupting’ China, as Reagan did with Soviet Union, he is ‘rescueing’ NK, HK, Taiwan, all Chinas neighbors who CCP has abused, all the,countries sucked into OBOR, and ultimately all ‘western countries’ where conmunist influence has corrupted their ‘democratic’ leadership.
      IMHO,..

      Liked by 19 people

      • vmi80 says:

        Yup!

        MAGA!!

        Liked by 1 person

      • vmi80 says:

        Yup!

        MAGA!!

        Like

      • NOT only is he rescuing the world, but PDJT is putting the ALL the globalists on notice…FREE MONEY RIDE IS OVER…TIME TO PAY THE PRICE!!! That is why companies are moving to US & Mexico…The rich “Oligarchs” have had it easy…from now on…NOT so easy…Oh and BTW…Congress, you are on notice, IF ANY OF YOU TOOK ANY MONEY THAT WOULD INFLATE YOU’RE SALARY TO THE MILLIONS…YOU ARE DEAD MEAT!!!!! And this is where it will end up…These congcritters are soiling their depends and NO ONE is going to help them!!!!! VSG we have!!!

        Liked by 4 people

        • Dutchman says:

          And I THINK companies that think Mexico is a safe bet may be making a mistake. Several times, he has referenced the 30% of our auto manufacturing thats in Mexico, sounding like he would like to get it back.
          And, lest we forget he gave Mexico 1 year,to stop the drugs AND illegals “transiting” Mexico, or he WILL tarif these auto suppliers.

          CAN Mexico ‘satisfy’PDJT’s demands, long term? Its a big gamble, all for lower wages,…safer to just move your operation INSIDE the U.S.

          Liked by 6 people

          • jrapdx says:

            It looks like Mexico is “safe” only as long as they maintain cooperation with PT’s insistence on Mexican authorities keeping “migrants” from traversing Mexico to reach the US border. So far so good (apparently), but Mexico has a history of letting their compliance fall through the cracks, especially when they think we’re no longer paying attention. With PT’s credible threat of tariffs, etc., they’re likely to stick with it for the interim. But yeah, I wouldn’t trust it as a long-term proposition.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Dutchman says:

              Businesses think long term, and move to safety. Even IF Mexico perfectly satisfies all of PDJT’s demands on humans, if they don’t stop the drugs, he will target their auto sector, and those companies will be “Back in the USA” so fast.

              Liked by 3 people

            • MaineCoon says:

              This South China Morning Post artice was interesting. It states that a lot of companies are moving to Mexico. Vier Nam and Indonesia are also benefiting. I’m surprised at how quickly companies are able to move an operation out of China.

              Liked by 1 person

              • 🤔 How fast can China relabel to “Made in Vietnam”…

                Liked by 1 person

              • jrapdx says:

                Given the nature of the government in China, doing business there would always have been risky. Surely the big corporations who sought the lower manufacturing costs China offered did so knowing the situation could change quickly and planned accordingly. By comparison Mexico is a safer bet, though setting up shop there isn’t as secure as in the US. Looks to me like the same old story, with a measure of luck you get what you pay for, at least the odds lean in that direction.

                Like

          • litlbit2 says:

            Exactly without even considering what would happen under a rule change or a change in attitude of Mexico leadership. Why take the gamble, get-r-done, come home and grow with us the USA.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Coldeadhands says:

            In order to satisfy PDJT’s requirements, Mexico must subdue the authors of both the human & drug trafficking…the Mexican drug cartels. These cartels also have the government either in their paid service or under constant threat of injury or death to them or those close to them. This is not news to the President…going to get real interesting!

            Liked by 3 people

        • I really like ED50’s theory but I don’t think we’re there yet. The “world” may realize the free ride is over but the US Congress does not.

          Liked by 1 person

      • lolli says:

        👍 dutchman

        Like

    • powderdayrules says:

      Thats how I read it too.

      Like

    • Conservative_302 says:

      No one can rescue HK. The time to do this was when the lease came up. Everyone knew the HK handover meant bye bye HK. I remember Patton trying to jockey for more position before the handback thinking how useless his attempts looked. It’s what it is. No one tells China what to do without great leverage. HK is China. No way to stop that train.

      Like

  3. ChinaBroc says:

    With Gordon, it’s personal.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. LULU says:

    We see Chang on FBN very frequently. For some time now he has been “my way or the highway”. Dismissive of anything or anyone who disagrees with his opinion.

    Like

    • Peoria Jones says:

      He has been a regular on John Batchelor’s radio show for as long as I can remember. He’s worth listening to, although it seems he’s missed a few fine points.

      Heck, if it weren’t for CTH, I’d have probably never understood the hostage situation with Kim. A lot has evolved since the Presidency of DJT, and all is not what it seems. Complicated business, folks.

      Liked by 6 people

  5. Dutchman says:

    How rascist. We must have an oriental, as our “China expert”, to comment on all things China.
    I suspect several treepers are far more knowledgeable on China, than Gordon Chang.
    “Expert”; former spurt (aren’t we ALL?).
    USED to be “someone more than 50 miles from home”, now its someone accomplished in the 2R’s; Reading and regurgitating their Professors views.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Sparty says:

    Second time this guy has demonstrated complete ignorance of Huawei recent break in on low end chips.

    This guy spends time reading every SD article last 2 years re: China and NOKO and he would be perceived a game changing genius. Nope.

    Like

  7. Kris says:

    I didn’t expect Trump to make a deal with China,he has always desired the US to be producing our goods.

    Like

    • Dennis Leonard says:

      I didn’t expect President Trump to make a deal with China,he has always desired the US to be producing our goods.

      Liked by 1 person

      • Peoria Jones says:

        I think it’s a lost cause at this point, Dennis. 😦 Besides, it’s a branded name – and most posters here probably use it with affection.

        Liked by 1 person

        • yucki says:

          Yeah, but I still appreciate posts that remind us of the _respect_ that’s due the office of *POTUS*. I pipe up only when a troll throws plain old “Trump” around in a post.

          I agree that it’s mostly affectionate around here.
          I like the simple “PT” or “PT-45”. More capital letters strain my attention span.

          Like

  8. Willieflyover says:

    China really has no option for ag trade now that Brazil and Argentina inked a big deal with the EU. No other country can produce year in and year out what thier domestic needs are. Swine flu marching rampant across thier pork production. And you know eating cat and dog, or being forced into the countryside twice a year to plant and harvest rice won’t sit well with thier new middle class.

    Like

  9. 335blues says:

    Gordon Chang “The people in the streets are fighting for their home. Maybe the protestors can outlast the People’s Republic.”
    My prayers go out to the people of Hong Kong. Maybe they can indeed, outlast the CCP.
    Maybe the people of the mainland will rise up against the communists.
    Hope is free.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. Daniel says:

    I’m an “economic neophyte” at the very most and even I can see what Trump is doing with his apparently “mixed” position. The Dhims and the RINOs love to assert that Trump should take a more extreme position. But this position would harm US business supplying non-sensitive equipment, parts and technologies to Hwawei. That’s not what Trump is interested in doing here. It has been pointed out that if we can’t compete with non-sensitive tech, then we are losing on non-sensitive tech because China will get it elsewhere anyway.

    Trump needs to stay his course. He’s doing great. The “beg-otiations” have already started. China will soon come with their hats in their hands and Qi will be replaced.

    Like

    • AP downunder says:

      I don’t think you’r really seeing the big picture here. China and the US, long term, are on a collision course for a major war. Pretty much everyone ‘in the know’ knows this.
      Every piece of technology we give or sell them, will be used to kill our troops.
      The ultimate goal is not to get ‘better terms’ but to defeat them, and the first step is to stop them from making money from Western technology, western finance, and American consumers.
      The reason Trump has what you call a “mixed” position is that he is making every step transparent, and he is making sure that all can see he gave the PRC lots of opportunity to play fairly. They won’t, he knows they won’t, but you must give them a chance anyway. Otherwise, for the rest of history, doubters will protest that they were not given a chance. he’s making sure that when this is all written up in the past tense, it’s clear what happened.

      Also, this thing takes a while to unravel.
      The games continue – and the corporations have time to do a planned exit without chaos and disruption.

      Like

  11. Pyrthroes says:

    From Taiwan Strait to beetle-browed debt-peonage in Southeast Asia, Africa, and Latin America, ChiComs’ New Imperium has worked its wicked will since Wild Willie’s accession in 1993 through January 2017.

    In Trump, the Iceman cometh… and nearing the historically fateful 72nd year since Mao’s takeover in 1949, Hsi’s minions face a “sea of troubles” reinforcing negatives towards end-2021.

    Of course, the Zeitgeist issues forth infrequently. But when it does, all bets are off.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. A2 says:

    Nothing new in this softish interview and a few factual mistakes, but then I don’t expect Mr Payne to be knowledgable about the details. Not in his wheelhouse. The most jarring mistake was saying that Hong Kong’s ‘handover’ was in the future tense. But minor matter.

    As for decoupling, China made this strategic policy official in 2015 with the 中国制造2025 (Made in China 2025). All there in black and white and Red all over. And before President Trump was elected.

    Some decoupling is farther advanced, I.e. the Internet. Other areas, Huawei being a case in point, is in an evidentiary way happening now. Mr Chang just fudged it a bit, because he must be aware of the new research.

    The PRC is following several tracks, or as some say, buying time, but the strategic goals are there and will be implemented as they are a signature policy of Chairman Xi Mao2.0.

    I have not a smidgeon 🤣 of doubt that the Trump administration is onto the ‘big picture’ and that in itself is a powerful deterrent.

    Liked by 5 people

    • mike says:

      China was supposed to preserve Hong Kong’s rights from UK for 50 years.
      Another broken CCP/China promise …

      Gotta count your spoons after every transaction with CCP.

      Liked by 3 people

      • yucki says:

        Don’t forget: LONG spoons, remember the nature of the adversary!

        Liked by 1 person

      • Perot Conservative says:

        China Sea
        Hong Kong
        Fentanyl smuggled into the US (like the Brits and opium)

        What’s next? Taiwan?

        Like

      • A2 says:

        The handover occurred in 1997. The Sino-British Joint Declaration in 1984 was the treaty saying that hk under the “one country, two systems” principle agreed between the UK and the PRC, that the socialist system of PRC would not be practised in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and Hong Kong’s previous capitalist system and its way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years until 2047. The Joint Declaration provides that these basic policies should be stipulated in the Hong Kong Basic Law and that the socialist system and socialist policies shall not be practised in HKSAR. “

        That treaty has been violated under Chairman Xi Mao 2.0.

        Like

  13. islandpalmtrees says:

    Sundance may want to cover LIFE, LIBERTY & LEVIN 7/7/19 LIVE FULL SHOW HD

    Liked by 1 person

  14. AnotherView says:

    Gordon Chang seems a bit overwhelmed now that there’s actually a president in the Oval Office whose metier is deal-making.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Agnes says:

    I doubt an agreement as the Westerners understand it is possible with mainland China. Culturally, the Chinese understanding of equality of persons is very limited. The Chinese are the superior race and all non-Chinese are devils/ghosts (same Chinese character).

    And within a family there is a strict hierarchy; different terms are used to address elder brothers, younger brothers, elder sisters, younger sisters; in a large family, each group of siblings is further divided into first, second, third, etc.

    The same goes for siblings on father’s side and mother’s side; then cousins, in-laws, etc, etc. I had a hard time trying to remember them all. We always address a relation by title, never by name; that is considered rude and Western.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Conservative_302 says:

    I am anti China when it comes to trade. I think we should no longer try with China. Expanding markets there is a pipe dream and always will be. I think we should make stuff in the US. I want to buy American. I don’t mind paying more. I don’t need 10 dirt cheap TVs in my house or stuff made in China that falls apart.

    Like

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