Death Toll in London Grenfell Tower Fire Climbs To 58, Officials Warn Could Still Go Higher…

British officials in London on Saturday said 58 people missing since the horrific Grenfell Tower fire on Wednesday are presumed to be dead.

According to the BBC Police Commander Stuart Cundy said the number may still rise, and it will likely take several weeks for authorities to identify all the victims.

These comment come after authorities announced Friday the death toll climbed to 30. Local residents have put the number of those missing higher, at about 70. Rescue workers have now reached the 24th floor of the high-rise, after search and rescue efforts were earlier halted over safety concerns.

In the face of anger and desperation over the fire and resulting in several protests, Commander Cundy reassured residents on Saturday that rescue workers were doing all they could to find all the victims. “As soon as we can, we will locate and recover loved ones,” he was cited as saying by the BBC.

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142 Responses to Death Toll in London Grenfell Tower Fire Climbs To 58, Officials Warn Could Still Go Higher…

  1. NickD says:

    First?

    Liked by 1 person

    • NickD says:

      Okay, real comment time: this cladding that is theorized accelerated the spread of the fire was made of flammable material and created a thin space betweeen itself and the building through which fire could easily move. Who thought this was a good idea?! Oh, well, it was for energy efficiency, so it was worth it…???

      Liked by 4 people

      • rf121 says:

        Not just an issue for the UK. There are buildings here that want to go for an older look with ornate granite carvings etc. But that would cost too much so they are made out of composite materials. They are light weight, easy to make and install on the exterior of the building. But they are also are flammable in many cases which creates a fire protection issue.

        Liked by 4 people

        • georgiafl says:

          Using flammable materials in commercial, multi-story and apartments should be outlawed!

          Liked by 6 people

          • WVPatriot says:

            With our safety regulations, there has to be very little flammable materials used in building or interior design…if they were not adhered to, NO repectable inspector would sign off on the project. Planned with an interior designer as far back as the 1960’s, and she never used ANY product that was not code or the highest rating — she was a graduate of the New York School of Interior Design.

            Liked by 2 people

      • nuthinmuffin says:

        damn safety, cost, practicality. green is now required by the government “experts”, so just shut up

        Liked by 1 person

      • keeler says:

        This an international problem which appears to caused by inferior aluminum composite paneling manufactured in China. In Dubai alone, there have been nine such high rise fires in the last few years. This wasn’t even the first ACP fire in London.

        Rather than self-extinguish as required, this paneling is providing massive amounts of fuel for fires which ignite in ACP-clad buildings, leading to quick-moving fires which rapidly ascend the building’s exterior.

        http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1801571

        While the cladding was not the sole contributing factor to the Grenfell fire, the available evidence suggests it was a major one. As in other ACP fires, eyewitness accounts indicat the fire scaled the building quickly and overwhelmed the nearly-nonexistent fire prevention measures in place.

        Even Grenfell’s case, sprinklers almost certainly would have averted disaster. Last July a fire burned 30 floors of 75 story tower in Dubai but killed no one. The difference? The Dubai tower had sprinklers; Grenfell did not.

        Never, ever spend time in a high-occupancy building that does not have sprinklers. Don’t patronize such venues or live in such residences. Not only are such buildings unsafe in the event of a fire, they are likely to have owners who are lapse in other areas of fire safety and thus at a higher risk of a fire starting.

        If you or anyone you care about lives in a high rise building with an exterior renovated in the last ~15 years, I recommend researching which materials were used. If you learn the renovations included ACP, I recommend further investigation into which manufacturer supplied the materials, and whether those specific products have been tested and meet fire safety standards. Currently, government agencies are either unaware or ineffective in ensuring installed paneling is up to code.

        This is not the last ACP fire we’re going to see.

        Liked by 7 people

  2. mikebrezzze says:

    I’m guessing the democrats are angling to blame this catastrophe on President Trump

    Liked by 9 people

    • Victor Laszlo says:

      I still think someone did it in retaliation for all the Muslim attacks. Of course, they’ll never say that.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Sandra-VA says:

        No, it was NOT a terrorist attack. Period.

        It was an appliance/gas leak fire within a single flat on the 4th floor..

        The reason the fire spread so quickly is because some green energy nut thought it was a good idea to clad high-rise buildings with a plastic and flammable material because it saved energy.

        This is what climate change believers have wrought.

        Lastly, there were many different races/religions represented in that building.

        Liked by 9 people

        • Victor Laszlo says:

          I’m not talking about a muslim terrorist, I’m talking about a patriotic brit (if there are any left) torching a muslim apartment building.

          Liked by 1 person

        • carrie2 says:

          Unfortunately appliances don’t just explode! They really don’t what caused the fire but the cheap construction added to the flames. Could be a terrorist attack as the fire started about a little more than 1/2 way up and it was so fast and hot, it was probably a set fire. Now they have said a refrigerator exploded on an even upper floor which is pure bunk! However, you can be sure the mayor will once again say “get used to it because this is the way it is”. Horrible to murder so many, but hey what’s a few deaths in a muslim-owned England.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Jimmy Jack says:

            The exploding refrigerator theory I’ve seen in so many places sounds like total bunk.

            I find it insane that people were told to stay put. Many of those people may have lived if they’d evacuated immediately. Please don’t ever wait to evacuate a building on fire. This cost some people their love ex at the WTC too.

            Another factor few are mentioning is what kind of safety practices were used by building residents, a large number of whom are from third world countries. Have you ever seen what people like that often do in apartments? I have and it’s shocking. Idk what happened but this is worth considering as is the possibility of one of the apartments being a drug or “stash house” with chemicals that could have acted as accelerants.

            Finally, it has been reported that even though this is a council house people would sublet it for cash so there’s literally no telling who was actually residing I. That building.

            Liked by 1 person

      • aprilyn43 says:

        @Victor Lazslo – See… I saw Islamic Muslim terrorism in it, even if it was on Muslims. We all “here,” should know the love Muslims hold for one another in their other sects; they regularly murder one another – In the name of their blood thirsty “moon god” aka allah, aka “Satan”.

        Like

        • Jimmy Jack says:

          To your point, A UK imam has started telling his Muslim congregation to take up martial arts to
          Prepare for the sectarian warfare he said would definitely be seen on the streets of London as a result of unchecked illegal migration.

          This is one of the dangers of the migration epidemic.

          Like

      • FrenchNail says:

        My thoughts exactly, I just saw video of a demonstration in Manchester against immigration and sharia and my jaw dropped. Thousands and thousands, several ten of thousands of British men (barely no women) demonstrating and chanting old English songs.

        The legacy media is misleading us big league in believing that there is no backlash in England against Immigration. There is an enormous one and it is well organized, well structured.

        This tower was in the mist of London and I believe was public housing. The residents were practically all Immigrants as evidenced by the interviews of the survivors and placards of missing persons.

        England is a tinder box and I believe that if the fire is suspected to be arson, we’ll never know because it will never be told officially. That would trigger rampage from the London immigrants and reaction from the English residents namely the English League of Defense “EDL”.

        Liked by 5 people

  3. auscitizenmom says:

    I am sure the totals are going to be much higher.

    Liked by 4 people

  4. Sandra-VA says:

    Absolute tragedy and completely avoidable. I wonder how many other death traps there are in the UK as a result of climate change believers and their nutty ideas.

    Floods caused by environmentalists and now fires.

    I hope the people there do make their voices heard and the companies involved in the refurbishment of that building are held to account along with the Mayor of London..

    Liked by 2 people

    • Sherlock says:

      Don’t forget a millions of africans dead of malaria because we can’t make DDT anymore.
      We tell them to spend their lives under environmentally friendly mosquito nets instead of killing the bugs.

      Liked by 7 people

    • Blaze says:

      I live in eastern Washington State and the liberals have shut the loggers out of the forest resulting in a massive fuel load. You probably saw our huge wildfires here in eastern Washington the last several yrs. 100% caused by environmentalists.

      Liked by 4 people

  5. NJF says:

    Katie Hopkins was on last night saying death toll could reach 200, & govt trying to surprise the #s.

    Also, for this who remeber that night, I posted about someone who called into BBC about their missing 11 yo niece.

    She didn’t make it. ☹️

    Liked by 4 people

  6. mamajen says:

    Another disaster “known about” and not addressed. We’re seeing what bureaucracy, ineffective leadership and poor vocational training does to a country.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Comrade Mope says:

      I tend to agree. The focus on the “Cladding” is a bit of a stretch. If the cladding were the problem the fire would have stayed mostly on the outside of the building. The fire spread so quickly inside that the cladding didn’t matter much. The real problem is the lack of fire escapes and the sprinkler system that wasn’t working- those are problems that rely heavily on bureaucrats to enforce.
      Do you have an escape plan? What do you do if that plan goes wrong in the middle of the night? Don’t leave it up to anyone else to get you out.

      Liked by 5 people

      • mamajen says:

        Not a whole lot of independent thinkers over there. The cladding and the “chimney” effect were definitely an issue, but maybe not the main one…sounds like the fire inside the building spread very quickly as well. Construction is a hot mess in the UK.

        Liked by 2 people

    • nuthinmuffin says:

      where is the outspoken muslim mayor?

      Like

      • MaineCoon says:

        Same behavior as our libtards in lack of response to the baseball practice shootings. Silence.

        Liked by 3 people

        • Grandma Covfefe says:

          Maybe the mayor had relatives living in the building? Perspectives changes when thing hit too close to home. It’ll be interesting to see what he has to say this time.

          Just another speculation-someone putting together some explosives items for later use?

          I don’t think we’ll be told the truth. The “beloved” media has this. Lawsuits will follow.
          Building materials will be at fault, but one has to know the source of the fire, then the blame game can start.

          Liked by 2 people

  7. zephyrbreeze says:

    At the core of so many problems is this horrible truth:
    Human life is cheap to progressives and corporatists.

    When they aren’t trying to abort us, euthanize us or ration our healthcare, they are poisoning us with chemicals, or some toxic vaccines (Gardasil), or risking our lives for some fake green dystopia, where only the elites have air conditioning and cars, and live in safe, spacious homes.

    The rest of us they want stacked like cordwood, or so dumbed down and anesthetized, so we don’t give them any problems. Our lives are worthless to the elites.

    Liked by 12 people

  8. fred says:

    I watched Hannity that night and he had the picture of the fire in the background and the look on his face…his jaw was dropping cause it was at the prime time of the fire. They panned in to close ups and you could see the dripping melting plastic flowing. Like when you were a kid and lit army men on fire. It was the worst fire I’ve seen for a few hours……….That was a huge crime and Britian better pony up for every person who lived there to get new housing quick. No don’t take it from the rich but do right and stop the wrongs here. Actually there was a fire in LA the Earth First guys lit and it was bigger a few years ago…..

    Like

  9. Johnny says:

    Islamics burn infedils out of parts of London one block at a time

    Liked by 2 people

  10. fleporeblog says:

    These folks send me a newsletter each day. They believe that the British are doing everything in their power to stop our President. From the Dossier to their anti Trump vitriol in their newspapers and television broadcasts.

    https://larouchepac.com/20170616/what-are-real-issues-behind-all?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170616-daily&utm_content=20170616-daily+CID_4d869207216f035751a685698edd9c3e&utm_source=CampaignMonitorEmail&utm_term=What%20are%20the%20Real%20Issues%20Behind%20All%20This

    From the article linked above:

    The British have repeatedly assassinated American Presidents, after first assassinating the father of our Constitutional system, Alexander Hamilton. But you would have to go all the way back to Abraham Lincoln, to find the sorts of repeated threats against a President, especially threats of murder, that are being made against President Trump right now as you read this—under British direction. A “comedian” is circulating a photograph of herself on the Internet, holding up a replica of the President’s severed head. At the same time, the protracted stabbing-murder of President Trump is being regularly performed before large audiences in New York’s Central Park, under the proud sponsorship, and with the repeated vigorous endorsement of the traitors at the British-loving New York Times—under the absurd guise of Shakespeare’s “Julius Caesar.” The “actor” allegedly portraying Julius Caesar in this bloody farce, is dressed and made-up to look exactly like President Trump—while his wife speaks with a Slavic accent and looks and dresses just like the President’s wife Melania.

    The British Empire, whose bloodlust is behind all of this, just called yesterday for Trump’s impeachment, in their flagship Financial Times of London.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Ron says:

    The real problem is government housing. I saw the videos, and the people put out by this fire were poor folks, this was a public housing project. I don’t know if their rent is free, or just reduced, but we’ve had our own issues with this kind of thing here in America.

    The Brewster-Douglass housing projects were a similar thing in Detroit. They were built in the 40’s to help poor people, you had to be black, had to have at least one parent working, and they had to be two parent families. This was fine, but over time the people who qualified moved out, because that’s the exact qualifications you need to be a successful family.

    so they relaxed the qualifications, and started letting anybody move in because when the buildings weren’t full, they didn’t make enough to upkeep the buildings.

    Eventually they became hell holes that were dangerous death traps and ran by gangs.

    Same thing happened in Chicago, same thing happened in St. Louis, and in most major U.S. Cities.

    You can’t just put tons of people with no ownership of the property in high rise buildings that are shabbily built and shabbily maintained. It’s just asking for disaster, and it’s not helping anybody in that building.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Ron says:

      This is an excellent documentary about Cabrini Green in Chicago if anybody’s interested. It looks at it pretty fairly, there’s some talk about race issues but since it’s an old documentary there’s no SJW talk in it so it’s worth watching. It shows a lot of historic video of what was going on back then and how these projects were bad news all around.

      Liked by 2 people

      • nuthinmuffin says:

        i lived in paterson nj in the mid 60’s…watched high rise housing go up just below the ridge where i lived. within thirty five years they knocked them all down. they had been so mismanaged and become so dangerous that they had to be removed. they were called the columbus projects…something they would have never been named today.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Deb says:

          The Pruit-Igoe buildings in St. Louis didn’t even last 20 years. But they damage the project did is lasting. Since only single mothers and children could reside there, many fathers became absentee in the hopes their families would live a better life without them in the brand new project. The trend of living without fathers and being taken care of by the state has persisted, and wreaked havoc on three generations.

          Liked by 2 people

          • Ron says:

            The Pruitt Igoe ones are the worst I’ve ever heard of, that was just God awful.

            I’m a big fan of architecture… and history… so I love these old videos of the projects which even for their big ugliness and failure had a certain aura to them, it’s sad seeing them be complete disasters and then torn down leaving just a big empty lot.

            HALF of downtown St. Louis, if you look @ the sattelite images on Google Maps, has been torn down. Around where Pruitt Igoe was there’s entire blocks with only 1 house still standing.

            Liked by 1 person

      • mopar2016 says:

        Nobody was safe at Cabrini Green.
        Same with Ida B Wells, Robert Taylor Homes, and a lot of other places in Chicago.

        Liked by 1 person

    • keeler says:

      I really hope someone from the Trump Administration gets HUD to go over ALL renovations of public housing conducted in the last 20 years, makes sure the appropriate, code-meeting materials were installed, and, when it wasn’t, have it replaced immediately.

      I can almost guarantee there’s public housing in the US clad in the same cheap, dangerous paneling.

      Liked by 1 person

      • georgiafl says:

        Someone wrote yesterday that the flammable Chinese sheathing is outlawed in the US.

        Liked by 1 person

        • keeler says:

          So are poisoned dog-food and lead-tainted toys, yet those items managed to reach the US consumer market.

          Let’s just say I’m not confident everything is on the level given the corruption in HUD, especially under the last administration, as well as in municipal oversight committees and among contractors.

          Liked by 2 people

    • The building was an eyesore for the rich living nearby.Painted concrete.9 million was spent cladding the building to make it look better.

      Like

  12. James W Crawford says:

    My reading over on Drudge has revealed that many of the residents of the building were immigrants, African and Asian muslims. This is already being politicized and is likely to become a race issue. The acromony will get even worse if the fire turns out to be arson.

    Like

    • Deb says:

      It wasn’t arson, the witnesses said there was explosion in the neighboring apartment. It was most likely a cooking appliance.

      London has it’s first Muslim mayor who is the son of immigrants. Will be interesting to see how this plays out.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Ron says:

      I don’t think it has anything to do with race or religion, I think it has to do with “Lets pack people like sardines in public housing so we can control every aspect of their life”

      Liked by 1 person

    • Jimmy Jack says:

      They were already rioting and rushing the Kensington council meeting yesterday over this. The images looked like a third world country.

      Liked by 1 person

  13. aprilyn43 says:

    Some Muslims are saying this was retaliation by possibly, a rogue British group/ppl, b/c of all the terrorist attacks by Muslims in Britain.

    Which is odd, b/c when I first heard of the fire, I thought it was Muslim that could of/probably were behind this.
    And… let’s be honest, that building reminded “me” of the WTC, & the ppl jumping out of the windows… well, “to me” it had Islamic Terrorism written all over it!

    Odd…. how Muslims saw that too…… hmmm! I guess muslims aren’t “short-sighted – in the dark, ” & they can see possible terrorism in their mist – They just have selective vision.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Jimmy Jack says:

      I chalk this up to their entrenched victim
      mentality which they leverage to their political advantage routinely.

      Like

  14. ALEX says:

    This was a tragedy and there are no signs of terrorism as of now and absolutely no reason to push that .. Until then have some respect.

    Mark Steyn does an excellent article on this. He relay has traveled Europe extensively over the decades.

    https://www.steynonline.com/7921/the-great-fire-of-a-new-london

    As anyone who’s traveled the Third World or even parts of post-Soviet Eastern Europe knows, it is easier to put up a tall building than to maintain it. Authoritarian regimes like the prestige of skyscrapers, even stubby ones, but you notice around dusk that there are no lights on the upper floors because the elevators no longer work; the landings in the emergency stairwell are used as “temporary” storage space that has inevitably become permanent.

    Not all of these problems are yet as common in a First World city such as London, but some are: at Grenfell Tower, for example, the only emergency exit was obstructed inter alia by piles of cardboard, a busted space heater and an old mattress. Other problems not quite seemly in a supposedly wealthy metropolis had also accumulated – so there were no sprinklers, and non-working fire alarms, and “cladding” from a recent remodel helped fan the flames and spread the fire and quickly became, for those seeking an issue in a tragedy, the word of the week.

    Nevertheless, clad or unclad, Grenfell Tower embodies what has happened to London, Paris and other European cities in their transformation from national capitals to “global cities”, as Sadiq Khan likes to call his fiefdom.

    Liked by 5 people

    • aprilyn43 says:

      @ALEX – No one here is being disrespectful, all that is being done is speculation on “how it happened”.
      As for Muslim terrorism or retaliation by Brits, fed up with the system being the cause, in this day & age, “Terrorism” is a real possibility – A at the “Top of the List” possibility; if you’re a real honest, researcher.

      Liked by 2 people

    • Jimmy Jack says:

      Your last paragraph is very insightful. This fire is symbolic of that decline that has resulted from unlimited third world immigration – both legal and illegal.

      The West cannot afford to absorb this population and expense and maintain first world quality of life.

      Liked by 5 people

    • It is disgraceful. The Gv’t of Britain has gone down the path of politically correct & social justice and in the process has forgotten that it’s real responsibility is to keep the people of Britain safe not create trendy insolvable problems that are fun to talk about.

      There is no excuse for a 24 floor building with only one staircase and no sprinkler. Haven’t we learned anything from the tragedies of the past?

      Liked by 1 person

  15. Watcher says:

    Little known fact: helicopters (mostly military) airlifted 1000 people off the roof in the MGM Grand fire lasVegas 1980.
    Google lasVegas hotel fires

    Liked by 2 people

    • I kept wondering where their helicopters were and why they didn’t have the tremendous inflatables that would have let some people jump to saftey. If they are going to have 24 story buildings they need firetrucks with adequate telescoping ladders.

      Liked by 1 person

    • wondering999 says:

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2190487/MGM-Grand-Hotel-Fire-Haunting-black-white-images-capture-deadly-blaze.html

      “The total construction cost of the hotel was $106 million, and apparently the owners made a decision to forgo installing a sprinkler system that cost $192,000.

      “Experts contended that the fire would have been quickly extinguished had the MGM been properly equipped with a sprinkler system.”

      Like

    • Mist'ears Mom says:

      I lived in Las Vegas and worked at the MGM when that hotel fire happened. I was in rehearsal for the new show Jubilee. The entire production staff were in the hotel and most were airlifted off that roof. 2 of our choreographers were rescued after spending hours in their room in the bathtub thinking they were going to die.
      The helicopters flew directly over my 3rd floor apartment from the MGM offloading people on to the Hilton’s roof. I lived directly between the two with a birds eye view of the MGM.
      It was a mind blowing disaster at the time.
      The hotel went up in flames but it was the toxic smoke that killed everyone from the first floor and above. The smoke was so toxic because of the extensive use of plastic for everything-moldings and ornamentation inside the lower floor casino.
      That along with inadequate escape plans that trapped people in the hallways and exits after they left their rooms out into pitch black and locked doors.
      Many of the new safety regulations have been implemented because of that fire.

      Like

  16. sundance says:

    Like

    • RC says:

      At least 2/3 of the 120 apartments were rapidly engulfed in smoke. The death toll may be more than 160 men-women-children — which is why the UK government is very circumspect at the moment.

      Like

  17. Just Sayin' says:

    You often read about stories of this sort in the third world. Factory collapse leaves 1,129 dead. Well, ok that one was an outlier, but hundreds dead from shoddy construction / safety standards and poor workmanship are not uncommon.

    Tragedies of this sort are just “part and parcel” of living in the modern West, after the “systematic effort to change the West, to make it more like the rest of the world”.

    Liked by 2 people

  18. aprilyn43 says:

    @Sandra-VA – See… I saw “Terrorism” – Too hot, Too fast, Too, Too, Too… engulfing in flames – Like a candle wick…. Whoosh!

    Like

  19. elsa8th says:

    so different, the rage re this – and the flowers in response to jihad terrorism, and all the stuff about “we will not let this divide us”

    >

    Like

  20. Wow. I have been coming here for about two years. I log on to the CTH about three times a day. I don’t comment. I love Sundance’s analysis. I also love the comments.

    But today, with the comments, not so much. The evidence, so far, is that this was a fire started by a refrigerator on the 4th floor. The evidence on this is strong. But they have no more than that. They do not know what made it explode, or even if that was the cause, and why it spread so quickly to the outside. There were no sprinklers or fire alarms. The cladding was new, was flammable, and had air pockets in it creating a chimney effect. About 70 people have died.

    I have read so far, that this is a terrorist attack from muslims killing muslims, Brits killings muslims, and that it is a revenge attack for the London terrorism. There is zero evidence of this. Absolutely zero. It is shameful to read this here. It sounds like “infowars”, not in depth analysis. I am not a fan of islamic ideology, but still, seeing your agenda in every tragedy makes no sense.

    So what that it was a tower block with muslims in it? So what? Almost every part of London has a high percentage of muslims. London is about less than 30% indigenous British, that’s all. So don’t be shocked that there are muslims and non indigenous people living in the tower block.

    It is just silly to speculate terrorism, and it makes the whole site look foolish, and brings into question the validity of all the other comments from all the other threads. It just sounds paranoid.

    This is a tragedy. Like the majority of fires before it, it is due to human action, misguided policies, and cost cutting. I have no doubt it is due to local government mismanagement as well. However, resources are limited, and always have been.

    The real crime here is the regulations. Sure, they wanted to refurbish it as cheaply as possible. Who wouldn’t? But you can spend much money on a car, and you can also buy a car which is very cheap. But can you buy a car with no seat belts? The answer is no, because it would be illegal, and against vehicle building regulations. So how can a block of flats be refurbished, with no fire alarms, no sprinklers, and, worst of all, with flammable materials that act as a chimney effect? How can that happen, in London in 2017? Surely the regulations can’t be that slack. The UK is known for it’s draconian “elf and safety, in’it”. How could that have got past the people responsible for the upkeep of the building? That is where the blame for the tragedy lies. Not terrorism. Not muslims. Not politicians. This is clearly about the completely inadequate refurbishment which was signed off with no regards to adequate safety features.

    But this is NOT a political tragedy of left versus right. It is a problem of local government and it’s duty to enforce safety regulations.

    P.S. A fire on the outside can easily move to the inside. No mystery there, especially as people would have been asleep and left windows open.

    Liked by 2 people

    • KBR says:

      Local government would include the mayor I should think.
      Perhaps that is why we have not heard from said mayor.

      Like

    • Jimmy Jack says:

      People are speculating about terrorism bc it is now endemic to Europe and has been particularly high profile attacks in UK cities in the past two months. Taking the facts into account is analytical.

      And so far the refrigerator story is conjecture based on a report from an Egyptian or Ethiopian cab driver who claims his fridge exploded and started the fire. There has been NO official inquest yet so we don’t know that fridge story is accurate as causative.

      Like

    • Lori Duquette says:

      Also, the Dailymail.com has an article about refrigerator coolant being replaced with environmentally friendly Greenfreeze. It seems to cause some flameable/explosive issues. (sorry cannot cut and paste at this time, but article is from 9/2009).

      Like

    • FrenchNail says:

      I take exception to your analysis. This forum is open to discussion. And you want us to shut up and accept the “facts”. Facts provided by the legacy media which has done nothing but lie to the people for decades. So NO, I will not accept their version of the events as truth without considering other possible versions.

      And as for your “solution”: No the problem is not inappropriate government regulations (there is enough government in our life as it is), it is inappropriate compliance from the residents. And yes they die as a direct result from their behavior. Be it deciding to move in a country without the proper resources to sustain themselves once there. Or relying on others to maintain their units and appliances. Or whatever non compliant behavior they routinely adopt as overcrowding or usage of appliances for non compliant purposes. And if this opinion strike you as racist, Well I don’t care because most probably unlike you I have been in these public housing blocks and I know what I am talking about.

      One of the aspect of non assimilation is having populations resisting rules and behaviors dictated to them. Western style housing is built based and responsive to the behavior of average local residents. When you pack non local residents in such buildings, you immediately see dangerous behaviors not recognized as such by the non-locals, ie. blocking the fire exits, dumping flammable contents in the common areas. Behaviors “normal” where they come from, except that in their original environment it is not that dangerous. If you put your old mattress in the yard of your mud house, it is unhealthy and an eyesore, but not deadly. If you leave your old mattress outside your apartment against the fire exist door, it is deadly.

      And let me come back to your lack of regulation argument. How effective were these brand new regulations when it came to approve employing flammable cladding on the building? And how efficient were these so trusted regulations when it came to position the cladding in such a way that it created a vast chimney effect on the building?

      No, the solution is Responsible Citizenry. Period. You are responsible for your behavior, for your life choices and the only things these victims are not responsible for are the codes allowing this cladding. BUT any of them who was able to vote is responsible for whoever they voted in allowing these regulations.

      Harsh may be. True absolutely.

      Liked by 5 people

  21. keeler says:

    I posted this after the “Ghost Ship” fire in Oakland, CA on December 2, 2016. I removed one paragraph specific to that incident which does not apply in this case, as the Grenfell Action Group repeatedly warned the building had significant fire risk and repeatedly requested building management address fire safety hazards.

    These hazards were not sufficiently addressed, and it appears decisions made by the building’s management contributed to the disaster. Critically, the building did not contain smoke alarms or sprinklers. There was only one central stairway, likely no emergency lighting, and no alternate escape routes. New “green” fridges contained highly flammable gasses, and these fridges may have been mass defective. Renovations added flammable aluminum composite paneling to the building’s exterior. Management had instructed residents to stay in place during a fire, on the premise the apartment doors were designed to withstand 30 minutes of burning during a typical fire incident.

    However, in examining what we currently know about this fire we should not overlook potential contributing factors added by residents: whether cultural or social customs contributed to an increased risk of fire ignition, whether the largely immigrant population practiced apartment overcrowding, whether this was tolerated by Grenfell management, and whether language barriers hampered the response and rescue operations.

    —————————–

    On the issue of victim-blaming. In operational leadership training, one learns that evaluating an accident requires studying the choices made by everyone involved, including victims, in order to understand the latent (passive or structural) errors (mistakes) and active (physical acts or decisions) errors which caused an event chain to lead to an event. The point is not to blame those injured or killed, but to identify the causes of the accident in order to reduce future risk.

    -I’m sure just about everyone here knows this, but never, ever attend an event at a building that looks like this. They’re death traps, and there are thousands of them across the US. Always pay attention to your surroundings and have situational awareness. While none of us are going to raves, don’t let your guard down when attending birthday parties, wedding receptions, retirement ceremonies, and other events where there are lots of people in confined spaces. And make sure friends or family members who do go to places like bars and nightclubs know what to look for as well.

    Bars on windows stand out, but there less obvious warning signs of high risk. Are there smoke alarms? Plentiful and well-marked emergency exits? Does the building feel overcrowded or cluttered to the point it is hard to move easily? Are there going to be ignition sources (open flames, pyrotechnics, cigarettes/cigars, etc) during the event?

    Most importantly, are there sprinklers? Depending on the building’s age and local ordinances they might not be required. Even in bars and nightclubs. The 2003 Station Nightclub fire took only 90 seconds to go from ignition to flash over, a death sentence for anyone left in the building after that time. With sprinklers (which should have been in place, but weren’t), the fire would have never flashed over and all of the 100 killed and 230 injured would have gone home that night. (The NIST has some amazing recreations of the Station fire which show how important sprinklers are on YouTube, but be careful if you look for them because there is raw, graphic footage from the fire itself on Youtube as well and I recommend avoiding those videos).

    Did you catch that 90 seconds bit? That’s how fast a fire can move. Seconds count. Always make note of where emergency exits are ahead of time. Use them if necessary. Have a plan before you need one. When an incident occurs, most people attempt to exit from the location they entered, typically the main or primary entrance. They will crush and trample one another if there is a panic, and the exit will become unusable. You don’t want to be in, under, or behind the crowd.

    Liked by 5 people

    • Jimmy Jack says:

      Keeler – pitch perfect comment, as was your Ghost Ship comment.

      Like

    • Grandma Covfefe says:

      Keeler, Thank you so much for challenging us to watch the video. Thru our life work in various sectors, we preach safety, but I failed to understand the doorway incident, until I saw this video.(we saw the whole the 13 min long video). I am boggled. Hubbie and I decide just now, on Monday we’re going to revisit all the regular stores we attend, just to recheck and redo our possible routes for fires as well as earthquakes. (CA)
      You and others on this site, with your statements, have for sure saved two lives here.

      Like

    • scott467 says:

      “However, in examining what we currently know about this fire we should not overlook potential contributing factors added by residents: whether cultural or social customs contributed to an increased risk of fire ignition, whether the largely immigrant population practiced apartment overcrowding, whether this was tolerated by Grenfell management, and whether language barriers hampered the response and rescue operations.”

      _______________

      The pagan god of Political Correctness (the high god of Western Europe and half of America) will not allow any examination or negative assessment of the invader (‘immigrant’) population or their animalistic ‘cultural customs’ and resultant behavior.

      The Trojan Horse islamic hordes were granted passage and accommodations by the treasonous political-class (treason-class, actually) for a reason.

      What that reason might be is debatable.

      That the treason-class has facilitated the islamic invasion of their own countries, is not debatable.

      And since whatever their ‘reason’ for doing so has not accomplished its purpose yet, there will be no evaluation or judgment or corrective action of any kind toward the islamic barbarian hordes.

      But the hordes are just a tool.

      The real enemy of the People is the political-class (treason-class).

      Both here in America and in Western Europe, as well as in Canada and Australia.

      The ‘policy’ of facilitating the islamic invasion of ALL Western nations, at the same time, by the leaders of all Western nations, is the most remarkable ‘coincidence’ in the history of the world.

      .

      Liked by 1 person

  22. William Ford says:

    Have never seen a high rise fire in the U.S. where the entire structure is ablaze especially in such a short period of time. My immediate thought was arson with some type of accelerant used. But even that wouldn’t explain it. Probably multiple contributors. The external flammable coating still doesn’t explain how it spread inside the building so quickly and completely.

    Liked by 1 person

    • keeler says:

      The fire probably did not spread in the building as quickly as it did outside the building. Its rapid exterior spread makes this fire look deceptive.

      Reports of bodies on the stairwell indicate victims became aware of the fire and had time to attempt to flee, but, because there were no sprinklers, not enough time before smoke inhalation incapacitated them. Without sprinklers, structure fires can generate enough heat and fumes to kill people within minutes. The total burning of a structure usually takes longer and occurs after any deaths have taken place.

      Like

      • Mist'ears Mom says:

        All the pictures I saw the night of the fire it was burning from the inside out. I totally agree with the smoke inhalation and toxic fumes generated that will kill you fast.
        The Sunshine mine fire that killed 91 miners in the Silver Valley (Wallace ID) generated extremely high levels of toxic carbon monoxide gases that killed the miners instantly.
        They still do not know what caused the fire but believe that the plastic foam sprayed to backfill between the timbers caused the toxic smoke.
        In any event it is usually not the fire itself that will kill you it is the smoke.

        Like

    • mopar2016 says:

      Yeah I’ve never heard of a refrigerator blowing up.
      I’m not buying that scenario.

      Like

  23. Frede says:

    I saw this on the tv, and as a trained firefighter in the military, it just looked funny. I asked my dad with 30+ years as a firefighter, and he thought it looked funny. They say it started in on the 4. floor, but why did it go down, fire allmost never does that, and how did it brun for so long, even after they put form on it the most of the night? One appartment ind the lower part had orange flammes, after the sprayed it, thats not normal. I get that something on the outsider could make a flamme bridge, but how did it go Inside so fast, and did every appartment have lost of easy combustible duel, because even if on flag burns down pretty fast, it takes time to get though walls and celings. And if the fire is that massiv, it will eat the fuel, and kill it self.

    I dont know anything, but i know this was a “special” fire, allmost like the Big oilfires we uset to train with, with a Big eksplosinon and orange flammes.

    Liked by 2 people

  24. Bubba says:

    Feel terrible for those people. A real tragedy. A lot of questions need to be answered about how the construction materials, etc. that need to be answered.

    I am curious, though. How come it didn’t implode if it was so poorly constructed? Like the WTC7 imploded (with a lot less fire)? Was the WTC7 constructed with cheaper materials than Greenfell Tower?

    Liked by 1 person

    • Frede says:

      Because two Towers didn’t just colaps around it, trowind debris on top

      Like

    • Esperanza says:

      It wasn’t poorly constructed. It was poorly renovated. There will already have been fires. Something changed after the renovation. Also, sorry, but the occupants also. People plug in things that need an earth socket. Also we have 240 current not 110 is it you Have? Gas is dangerous with this kind of population.

      Like

      • Bubba says:

        With respect, I questioned the construction materials – not whether they were original or renovated.

        Why didn’t the poorly constructed/renovated wood framed TG bldg collapse after almost 20 hours of an all-consuming fire? But, the WTC7 steel framed bldg collapsed after less than 7 hours of localized fires on a few floors?

        WTC7’s frame was built of steel and it was the Emergency Command Center for NY. It was supposed to be designed to sustain an attack or natural disaster so the Mayor and his team could operate from it during such an event.

        NIST investigated the collapse of the bldg. If you’re interested, read it and notice how defensive they are in each section. Notice that they didn’t use the proper protocols. They didn’t follow NFPA 921 Fire & Explosive Investigative Guidelines. They made assumptions from modeling/videos/interviews/etc. Their investigation did not include any physical evidence from WTC7.

        I don’t expect an answer from anyone on this thread. Instead, we should have questions.

        From the link below:
        8. Why did WTC 7 collapse, while no other known building in history has collapsed due to fires alone?

        https://www.nist.gov/el/faqs-nist-wtc-7-investigation

        Like

        • RC says:

          Sundance reminds us to see past whatever “shiny object” conjurors may present and — in the case of the WTC towers — review the exacting analysis by 2,500 architects and engineers on the collapse. Do so and you will discover an interesting material called NANO-THERMITE which burns at 4,500 F and converts steel columns to a molten liquid.

          Next, review who owned the WTC on 9 / 11 and meet a “good samaritan” who purchased the buildings for $15 Million from the Port Authority of New York. Why a mere $15 Million? Well a court mandated asbestos removal costing many times the building’s net revenue and no one else bid.

          Then come to find out that the “good samaritan” upped his terrorism insurance and, after 9 / 11, sued for double indemnity because he was victimized by two airplanes. He walked away with $5 Billion in cash. No good deed should ever go unrewarded.

          Like

    • NickD says:

      “Debris,” obviously. Now stop being such a conspiratorial nut-job and bend over for your TSA search, for national security

      /s

      Like

  25. scott467 says:

    “In the face of anger and desperation over the fire and resulting in several protests, Commander Cundy reassured residents on Saturday that rescue workers were doing all they could to find all the victims. “As soon as we can, we will locate and recover loved ones,” he was cited as saying by the BBC.”

    ______________

    Wait…. what?

    So what (at this point) appears to be a completely ACCIDENTAL tragedy is what it takes to get Britons “angry” and in ‘desperation’ and… gasp! to protest?

    But regular and repeated intentional RAPE and MASS-MURDER by islamic barbarian hordes — facilitated entirely by the political-class with willful MALICE aforethought… i.e., TREASON — doesn’t merit so much as an acknowledgment?!?

    What in the world is wrong with these people?

    Have any psychologists bothered to examine the mass-delusion and derangement currently taking place in Western Europe?

    Because what is happening now makes the Dutch Tulip Mania of the 1600s seem like NOTHING in comparison.

    .

    Liked by 1 person

  26. The cladding comes in both flammable and non-flammable versions, and the jobber/expediter might not have checked–or, worse, might have charged for the non-flammable and delivered the flammable, pocketing the difference.

    Liked by 3 people

  27. Grandma Covfefe says:

    Apparently, the immigrants lives in this London building. Immigrants (invaders) here in CA bring their Third World habits and they refused to change. We have seen how they operate Bar-BQs or Hibachis–not the safe way. There were several incidents in our County where the houses have burned down, and it was discovered the immigrants would bring their hibachis or Bar-BQ inside, yes INSIDE, their house to cook food on a cold day. Or to use it to warm up their house!

    With this one, there are so many possibilities of what was the source of the fire. They had better make sure they investigate the source of fire first, before they start blaming others.

    Like

  28. jackphatz says:

    Forget cladding, exploding refrigerators, this is what killed all those people.
    “The British Automatic Fire Sprinkler Association said that if the fire did start in one flat, as suspected, it is highly likely that a sprinkler system also would have prevented the fire from developing.
    Instead, the fire engulfed the building within 15 minutes.”

    Like

  29. Molly Pitcher says:

    Color me weirded out a little. It seems to be confirmed about the origin of the fire but who packs a bag when there’s a fire? Maybe it was his laundry or something but mighty decent of him to warn one neighbor.
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3803438/man-who-lived-in-the-flat-where-the-grenfell-tower-fire-started-packed-a-bag-then-raised-the-alarm-with-neighbours/

    Like

  30. James W Crawford says:

    WTC towers were a unique design with main columns at thre periphery and long span, light weight trusses connecting them. Works great until a fire weakens the trusses then the columns buckle.

    Also, the kinetic energy of the twin towers falling was huge. The ground shock registered on seismic monitors thousands of miles away. The ground shock damaged the interconnected foundations of the adjacent buildings.

    Like

  31. James W Crawford says:

    I remain suspicioys of arson. The reports are that the fire started from a cooking appliance. Installed cooking appliances are usually electric or bat gas which are designed to be safe. Was this guy allegedly cooking with a kerosene or propane stove? If so, either fuel could have been used as an accellerant for arson. Propane can be extremely ecplosive if you vent the tank into an enclosed space then ignite it. The flame propogation rate is extremely fast, able to detonate all the gas in a few seconds.

    Like

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