Republican Factions Continue Healthcare Infighting…

In the largest measure, the basic problem is in 2009 Harry Reid passed the ObamaCare legislation in the Senate with 60 votes.  The House then passed the exact same bill, and the Democrats moved to immediate reconciliation to remove the House concerns (Gator-Aid, Cornhusker Kickback, Louisiana Purchase etc.).

In 2017 the Republican congress are attempting to repeal and replace that ObamaCare legislation with only 52 Senate votes available, well, maybe.

Unfortunately for the GOP there are not even 52 votes for repeal.  Portman, Thune, Collins, Murkowski, Graham, McCain, Blunt, Cochran, Cornyn, Hatch, McConnell and others, are not necessarily on board; that’s 11. (Leaving only 41).

No amount of byzantine rule changes surrounding “reconciliation” are going to overcome that factual vote hurdle.  In 2009 Senator Reid started with 60 votes.  In 2017 Senator McConnell starts with 52.

So anything coming from the House of Representatives has to keep this reality in mind.  Even if support or opposition is based on ideological principle, it still has to pass – or it’s moot.

There’s no doubt the Paul Ryan proposal holds the worst U.S. CoC aspects demanded by Tom Donohue.  Heck, Donohue poured a lot of lobbying money into the entire architecture in ’09/’10 and he’s paid republicans in congress hundreds of millions to make sure his interests in keeping ObamaCare around are protected.  Ryan is big GOPe and he’s supported by the Big Club.

And, as much as Paul Ryan is beholden to Donohue to retain some form of ObamaCare, so too are the Rand Paul / Ted Cruz types paid by billionaires like Cary Katz (Conservative Review); who want an abject repeal without compromise.

Everyone has a financial agenda, and almost every large website and media outlet on the conservative side of the equation has financial underwriting determining their projected position.  The scope of their financial leverage in direct proportion to the severity of their opposition or support of ObamaCare.

The Conservative Review is on one ideological billionaire side.  Salem Media Communications is on another.  Money, not moral or guiding principle, is really the driving force within these media-promoted arguments.

CTH has no financial interest at all.  None. We’re structurally and ideologically ambivalent to the outcome and simply choose to look at the entire situation from a perspective of politics.  What can be reasonably expected to happen; what cannot happen; and how will any chosen direction influence the future stakes and bigger picture.

One of the best examples of the politics can be highlighted in a recent interview with Senator Rand Paul where he is promoting his bill as an option.

As you watch the interview remember Rand Paul has no co-sponsors, because he’s all alone.  Listen carefully to him explain that his job is not to advance legislation that can pass, but rather to advance legislation that he alone is able to believe in.

Signals that people avoid:

♦ Rand Paul’s bill has no republican co-sponsors.  Why Not? He doesn’t even try to make it appear he can get to 51 votes, let alone 60 votes.

♦ Rand Paul essentially admits his bill has no-chance of passage; and his argument is that it’s better than the alternative.

♦ Rand Paul falsely claims in 2015 the Senate repealed ObamaCare.  They didn’t. It’s just simply a false statement. The senate passed a bill that defunded ObamaCare using reconciliation.  They offered no alternative accompanying bill, and Obama vetoed it.

♦ Additionally, […] The 149 page Paul bill also would create a health insurance tax credit against payroll taxes. From what I read about it on, the new credit is complicated, but its general effect is straightforward. It offsets payroll tax liability, while the new deduction reduces income tax liability. The credit is thus especially valuable to workers with modest wages, since they often pay more in FICA taxes than in income taxes.

If the bill stopped there, it would consist largely of conservative staple. But there’s a twist: These new tax provisions do not replace the Obamacare refundable credits. Paul’s tax breaks would exist side-by-side with Obamacare’s.  (continue reading)

(Secretary Price and Speaker Ryan’s Plan)

I really think Joninmd22 hits the key points in this comment:

The Constitutionalists’ argument that we should not be perpetuating an entitlement is sound. However the battle over Health Care being a right was lost with the McCain campaign for President in 2007.  As a matter of fact that position was not even defended by the nominee.

That doesn’t mean that the arguments for the free market were not sound nor put out by conservatives nor did they lack in their passion. That doesn’t mean that the battle cannot be re-fought at some time in the future after the Trump Administration’s economic growth and government reforms start to wean people away from welfare.

If you make the American electorate choose the free market or dependency cold turkey today they will vote democrat in millions in 2018 and 2020.

This is the reality we’re in not the world we’d like to be in. Now you can continue on this march to defeat the Trump Administrations repeal and Reform plan but consider the consequences.

If this current plan goes down now they’ll have to put up a replacement. Senator’s Cotton and Senator Paul are both well meaning gentleman but…  They Don’t Have 60 Votes In The Senate. [Heck, they don’t even have 51]

There it is, like it, lump it ,or build a shed around it these bills will not pass. Which 8 democrats will crossover to deconstruct a government entitlement?

Consider how the democrats will use your defeat to gain seats in 2018?

Where that leaves Constitutionalists is either they can continue the banzai charge to defeat… Or work to make the Ryan bill better.

Now to the those supporting the Ryan Plan.. It sucks.

Written in secret and loaded down with contradictions it does represent an Insurance companies wish list in many aspects.

Supporters of Ryancare should adopt a more conciliatory tone and start working with Constitutional critics. Crafting and moving legislation Isn’t a my way or the highway proposition, nor are all critics closed minded Constitutional zealots.

Take the weekend all; and consider what will occur if we work together. Neither side can get it all but the Democrats are the big winners if we don’t work together. ~link~

The President supports the proposed path.  HHS Secretary supports the proposed path.  The Speaker of the House supports the proposed path.  The Senate Majority Leader supports the proposed path.

Republicans really need to learn how to govern.

Or else, Trump will be facing Democrats’ in oppositional control of at least one house of the legislative branch of government.

Then again, maybe that’s really what congress wants.

This entry was posted in Big Government, Big Stupid Government, Donald Trump, Election 2016, Legislation, media bias, Mike pence, Mitch McConnell, Notorious Liars, Obamacare, Paul Ryan, Predictions, President Trump, Professional Idiots, propaganda, Rand Paul, Typical Prog Behavior, Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

280 Responses to Republican Factions Continue Healthcare Infighting…

  1. Paul Killinger says:

    Not to worry. There aren’t the votes in the Senate to pass ANY Obamacare reform bill regardless of what the House does.

    Which is also why a number of GOPe Senators (they ALL are!) are grabbing mics to say they’re opposed to the Ryan bill, to give the Freedom Caucus branch of the GOPe the “freedom” to try to kill the bill in the House before it gets there.

    Their biggest problem, of course, isn’t the Democrats at all, but President Trump, who is wise to this ploy. And all he’s looking for are RECORDED ROLL CALL VOTES in either chamber, which will put TARGETS on the backs of every legislator who opposed “Repeal and Replace” for him in the 2018 House and Senate elections.

    Liked by 6 people

    • Charles says:

      Yes, that is the “political kill shot”. Obamacare implodes, Democrats own it, and the Republicans own the clusterf*** of claiming to be ready to repeal and replace if only they had control of the house, senate and whitehouse.

      The problem is the American people won’t have healthcare coverage, and will suffer even more, especially those who need healthcare. The “political kill shot” won’t help America.

      I’m sure Trump knows that, and I believe he plans to avoid leaving the American people “healthrupt”.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Maquis says:

        “Healthrupt.” Well said, Mr Shakespeare, well and truly said!

        Use it or lose it People! Don’t cede it to the bad guys! In use by the hapless GOP it would help demonstrate the genuine heartfelt concerns of our President and the Hill he must conquer, so to speak.

        Perhaps Pepé can help claim it for our side?

        Again, Treeper Charles, I love your wordsmithing here, very well done.


    • Jedi9 says:

      I totally agree. In fact I would go a step further, and to say that put up three versions or three proposals for a replacement bill. 1. Ryan’s 2. The Democrats 3. Rand Paul’s or a coalition of his and put it up for a referendum vote to the people. There is no fixing our health care or Obamacare and or any other care for that matter until the the price and cost issue is addressed first. Right now Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies have a monopoly and without healthy free market competition there is no way that prices will be able to come down in every aspect of the health care industry. This first and foremost is the reason why healthcare is failing at what it was suppose to do in the first place which was to bring costs down. Furthermore people like Ryan and others don’t want to implement a plan to address the costs due to the industry being the biggest lobbyist and Ryan being one of it’s biggest beneficiaries! Duh! This point needs to be driven home every day, but why doesn’t more advocates for changing this corruptible aspect of government (Insurance and Pharmaceutical company Lobbyists contributing millions of dollars to politicians) not being talked about as a central focus as to why there is this road block? This is so frustrating and needs to shouted to the point it gets heard!

      Liked by 4 people

    • setup2100 says:

      I really don’t think TRUMP likes the bill. It is NOT what he promised the deplorable’s at all. If anything TRUMP knows the only people that have his back are the deplorable’s and his family. Hopefully he is just waiting this out to see what happens to RYAN. The main problem is NO ONE trust the republicans to do Phase 2 & 3. That will die asap if Phase One is passed. Now TRUMP can fix Phase 1 by repealing OBAMACARE and have a replacement in 90 days. HOW many times did he say ‘selling across state lines” in his campaign. Almost as many times as HILLARY lied? JMO

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Founding Fathers Fan says:

    Rand Paul knew that McConnell was a RINO when he ran for re-election and actively campaigned for his re-election in the primary. McConnell ran against a conservative in that primary and Paul continued to support McConnell, anyway. Rand Paul is a sleazy politician and cannot be trusted.

    Liked by 9 people

    • repsort says:

      bingo. He works his niche well, though.

      Liked by 3 people

      • Jedi9 says:

        I don’t get it. He has been saying all along about addressing the issue of cost, and that having a free market health plan is the only sensible thing to do. So I am not sure why the hate on Rand.


    • setup2100 says:

      Agree with you on Rand Paul. However, have to ask the question and ‘neither” is not a acceptable answer. Who do you trust ? Rand Paul or Paul RYAN??? Lyin RYAN did not get that handle because of TRUST!


      • Kaste668 says:

        KY girl here, Can not trust Rand or Ryan.

        Liked by 4 people

        • Jedi9 says:

          Ok. Then who do you trust? Nobody? Basically that is what it’s coming to these days when it comes to any elected official in our government! In defense of Rand, he is the only one talking about or advocating for a free market based health care plan. So please give me more options in terms of representatives that will do the right thing! Also, Trump can only do so much with executive orders, eventually he will have to work with congress if he is to get anything meaningful done in order to put forth his agenda. Right now, taking on healthcare, (a monster) is one way to get bogged down in the swamp and allowing the Democraps run out the clock on Trump’s first term. So far their strategy is working. Yeah I know 50 days, but the meter is running!


        • zucccchini says:

          NOR McConnell. I am also from KY and McConnell is the worse nasty in the barrel. I was around when he was Mayor of Louisville and I am a registered Republican. He has been in politics way too long and picked up way too much outside ‘help’. Follow the money.


      • Andrew Armen says:

        How about Trump? He has been fighting to pass all of his promises as fast as he can, and were acting like he’s an idiot, he has 163 IQ


    • Flexor says:

      Let’s consider several issues here concerning Paulryancare. Fist the plan was crafted by lobbyists who Ryan when asked would not name. Second it does not actually repeal the mandate as you will be charged a payment increase of 30% for termination and renewal of coverage. The 30% penalty goes to the insurance companies and not the government (maybe this tells us who wrote the bill).The death panel was not removed. If and a big if is that if payments are reduced it will not be by very much. Finally as with most bills put forth by Ryan there is no input by the citizens of this country. And yes if this is signed by President Trump he will not have a second term and the senate will be lost. I want Mr. Trump to continue with the great plans he has for this country but all will be overshadowed if this monstrosity is passed.


  3. RighteouslyIndignant says:

    For repeal alone to win requires Ocare to be swirling the toilet. People need to see the sham that it is. This is the winning strategy which leads to repeal and then a debate can ensue in which in regular order with all parties, a consensus of the proper role of government in healthcare can be reached.

    Short term pain for long term gain.


    • Healthcare may be a right, however, that is not license to make one law that governs a whole country, a law that was passed before being read, a law that many people in both branches of the legislature did not seem to take time to understand the magnitude of when approved. There are other issues. Like the hypocrisy of exempting yourself from a law that you impose on the rest of the country.


  4. ALEX says:

    I’m enjoying all of this. It’s really flushed out the factions like no other time since election…I’m glad Sundance pointed out Rand Paul is grandstanding….His plan is going nowhere and he never explains what he’s going to do with the people who are being helped..

    Newt on Hannity last night explained it best. If the Ryan plan was to pass it goes to the Senate where it gets changes and back to House, which won’t pass that, thus more of what we have now…Gingrich was laughing how naive all these people are……Its called legislating and it’s very hard…

    Really enjoyed Dobbs unhinged last night…My wife and I were laughing…Hannity actually let Gingrich talk in between screaming and it looked like he started to understand what this article by Sundance is implying…

    Meanwhile President Trump enjoys the meetings and is having a blast….Good times and hopefully even people on this site will try to digest what Sundance has written, because I guarantee the vast majority of people haven’t read any of the healthcare plans…

    Liked by 3 people

    • bessie2003 says:

      Agree whole heartedly.

      I read the ACA when it originally went online and then again read the one that was signed into law, and put off reading the Ryan plan until reading Sundance’s posts, now understanding it is a bare-boned structure to set the whole 3-part plan into motion.

      It’s now pure politics and through reading these posts on the subject here at TCH am beginning to see Pres. Trump’s handiwork being applied, so do trust his vision for the end results,

      the picture of Trump captioned “It’s complicated business, folks, complicated business” keeps that trust in place. It’s the perfect reminder that with politics we are in that watching sausage being made phase.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. Truthfilter says:

    The CBO report will come out next week and it will show whether or not Ryan’s plan will save money or cost more. President Trump will look at the bottom line when the final version reaches his desk. We should at least take comfort in that. He didn’t become a billionaire by being naive and perpetually wasteful. He says, “Its going to be beautiful.” I can’t imagine it but the man hasn’t disappointed me yet.

    Liked by 3 people

    • azgary says:

      the cbo is always wrong.

      Liked by 2 people

      • dstarke says:

        Because it uses whatever assumptions are presented in the bill. If the bill says that unicorns will provide free miracle cures, that’s the input they use. It’s pure GIGO (garbage in, garbage out).

        Liked by 1 person

        • Maquis says:

          They also make their own presumptions of the economy at large, guesses on people’s participation rates and what they had for breakfast. Tweaks can be made as required to achieve the results their masters desire. The CBO, dominated by Leftists, are no more to be trusted nor believed than the MSM.

          They may as well be Oracles in an opium daze, for all the ridiculous prognostications the credulous come seeking, and receive. They literally claim to understand all reality, all future events, the hearts and minds of the entire Country and Globe, and the price of tea in China~in ten years time. It is a ridiculous construct from it’s founding and serves only those that pay them best.

          The CBO should be abolished.


    • setup2100 says:

      Can the CBO be believed in DC???? It is like the weather forecast and you know the probability of that being RIGHT.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Benson II says:

      I think your correct. Every time I’m worried about him being picked on continuously or about something he says he manages masterfully to win the day. You’d think I would stop worrying but no can do, it’s in my nature no matter how much I love him and what he’s accomplished and intends to accomplish. What I don’t do is criticize him just because I’m worried because I’ve come to realize we never have all the information we need to make a truly informed judgement.


    • Andrew Armen says:

      The CBO is leftist bullshit, dont belive a thing it says


  6. yy4u says:

    I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about politics, but I admit my ignorance and my cynicism on ObamaCare and the machinations going on around it. Will Sundance or someone here enlighten me as to what’s going on.

    Here’s what I know:
    1- The Republicans took the House in 2010 on the basis of opposition to ObamaCare. That was SEVEN years ago.
    2-From what I understand they tried to repeal it but because the Democrats controlled the Senate, Harry Reid blocked the attempt. Is that true or just smoke and mirrors? Did they NOT pass a bill BECAUSE they said Reid would block it?
    3- Teddy Kennedy died and Scott Brown won on the basis of repealing ObamaCare. The Dems passed it before he could be sworn in.
    4- In 2014 — the Republicans ran on repealing ObamaCare. And won.

    1. Why not resend the bill the House sent to the Senate after 2010 that Harry Reid blocked?.
    2. Did Obama veto any ObamaCare bill? If not, why not? If so, why not send that same bill to Pres. Trump who would sign it?
    3-Why since the House has had seven years to write a bill haven’t they?
    4-Why since the House and Senate have been GOP for two years, didn’t they have a bill ready on Day 1?

    I am not being facetious, I really have lost track of what the GOP has done and hasn’t done.

    Will check back during the day to see if anyone can answer those questions.,

    Liked by 3 people

    • Jedi9 says:


      1. Because they don’t have 60 votes, hence the fact it has to be a reconciliation on this piece of legislature

      2. No. Because he knew along including all Democrats that is was a rob Peter to pay Paul ponzi scheme and they were hedging their bets that by passing it would insure them victory in upcoming elections for years to come. In other words it was designed as another vehicle of taxation than to provide sensible and affordable healthcare.
      3. Because it is not in their interest to do so. The very same RINOS who obstruct are the same politicians benefiting from the the lobbying contributions of his biggest donor. So why would they go against the hand that is feeding them?

      4. See answer 3

      Liked by 1 person

      • yy4u says:

        Thanks. Good answer and I appreciate it. I think I knew the RINOs were just using it to get reelected, but I wanted someone to verify that. You did.


        • Jedi9 says:

          Here is a video of a man who is getting to the heart of the issue and nails it! This is what I have been saying for quite some time in order to fix our healthcare system, is the issue of monopoly by the insurance, pharmaceutical, and medical industries, and the costs have to be addressed with a bulldozer! Or better yet, a sledge hammer! Trump is a smart business man, and he has to know this, so my skepticism is how he is going to work congress to address this issue? Not an easy chore considering how corrupt our representatives are and the culture they have created in DC better known as “the swamp” that are beholden to their biggest lobbyists.


    • setup2100 says:

      Great post. Short answer The RINOGOPe has done NOTHING

      Liked by 1 person

    • cwf60 says:

      The people gave Republicans majorities in the House and Senate during Obama’s reign, but they squandered the victories by exhibiting very little opposition to President Obama and his policies. I am trying to figure out exactly what they did other than wave a white flag when challenged by Democrats. President Trump is in a den of vipers and will do the heavy lifting.

      Liked by 1 person

    • Andrew Armen says:

      Scott Brown forced the democrats to give considerable power to the HHS, which Price now controls, and forced other parts of the healthcare to be passed through reconclination.
      It was passed in three phases, hence why it must be repealed in three phases.


  7. azgary says:

    Just let obamacare die on its own as it will soon do.

    doing something bad such as ryancare will just put the albatross around Trumps neck.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Willy says:

      X 1000 ^^^


    • yy4u says:



    • setup2100 says:

      Agree, if you have a life threatening issue no hospital in the country is going not give you treatment weather you have OBAMACARE OR NOTHING. And the care is no different than if one has a so called Cadillac policy. LET ONAMACARE die on it own BUT the politicians do not want that to happen. Why! dries up a source of campaign contributions.

      Liked by 2 people

      • cwf60 says:

        No one can be turned away from emergency rooms, and there are a myriad of grants and free services to help people. I took someone to a Doctor’s visit who had no insurance and grants paid for testing. Illegal immigrants get healthcare and from what I have been told they are not enrolled in Obamacare. Upending 1/6 of the economy by changing our healthcare system was another scam perpetuated on the American people. There were things that could have been done especially buying insurance across state lines and tort reform but control was the goal. The government could have paid for the poor without throwing the whole system into distress. We now have another government program on life support. People’s health has been negatively impacted by this debacle.


  8. mimbler says:

    To me, the solution seems simple; do your job! Craft a good bill that protects citizens forced off of their plans and on to Obama care. Craft that bill to provide an alternative, and streamline insurance across state borders, legislate price transparency in medical care, force pharma to compete at world price levels, etc.

    Once having done your job and creating a good health care bill, then push it to a vote. It will probably not pass, but people will be on record as to how they voted.

    Then, just stand back and let Obama care continue to implode. It is well down that path and will rapidly get worse.

    At that point there will be near universal public clamor to adapt the good republican bill that was voted down earlier. Bill passes, job done.

    This seems obvious and simple.

    But what are they doing instead? Passing a bill that explodes the deficit, takes the dems off the hook for their failed obamacare and place the republicans on the hook for their new failure of “trump-care”.

    The path Ryan is leading is the path to a new failed health care system totally owned by the Republicans,


  9. benifranlkin says:

    Healthcare is hung around the Republicans necks now, replacement or not. They control the House, Senate and the WH. Whatever happens in the next two yea s they own it. Trump needs to come up with a compromise plan to protect those people on Obamacare now and provide a way for those of us who need/want insurance to get on board. Everyone needs to get off the “get costs down train”. Healthcare will certainly only get more and more expensive because what is being provided will remain state of the art by necessity. Information systems in large hospitals now costing up to a billion dollars to implement. Extraordinary surgeries, extraordinary medicines, single lab tests (molecular diagnostics) costing thousands and thousands of dollars not to mention highly skilled healthcare workers who are also very expensive to maintain. A saving grace will be the people with insurance that will try to keep the costs down because insurance companies cut deals with the hospitals to insure it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Justin says:

      I disagree that costs have to rise indefinitely. Other technologies become less expensive, medical procedures become more routine.

      Health care costs and college tuition have risen for one reason… overregulation and government subsidies, period. Excluding minor inflationary price adjustments.

      Liked by 1 person

      • benifranlkin says:

        College tuition rising because the money is guaranteed to be there. Not overregulation. Colleges taking advantage of that and hike their prices…look at them collude…all the 4 year private school tuition start at 45K now. Books the same way.
        Healthcare costs are not climbing because of over regulation…it’s new stuff very expensive drugs and often better technologies people demand once they see it on the market. Go sit in a tumor conference at a hospital one day and watch the radiologist scroll through hundreds of studies on any one patient who has a tumor for which he/she has been treated over say 4 or 5 years. Insurance companies try to hold it back but the flood gates invariably burst….and that’s when they say they are only going to reimburse “X” amount for the studies. Like DRG’s of Medicare. But people are living longer, are sicker while on earth and then near the end are the most expensive patients in the house.


      • mimbler says:

        I agree. Look at Lasik surgery that generally isn’t covered by insurance. The procedure has gotten better, and the cost has gone down 90 percent!

        This isn’t trivial surgery, it shows what the free market can do when it isn’t being inefficiently regulated and subsidized,

        Liked by 1 person

  10. Joe says:

    The solution is very simple and quite straightforward:

    1) The 60-vote rule was originally created in the Senate by a simple-majority vote.

    2)It can therefore be eliminated by a simple majority-vote in the Senate.


    3) Repeal the 60-vote rule by a simple-majority in the Senate.

    4) The Republicans then write whatever bill they prefer.

    Of course removing the 60-vote rule is never going to happen unless Pres. Trump leads the Republican Party to do it.

    But that’s his job.



  11. paulraven1 says:

    What is not discussed in these very sound representations of reality are the will and actions of Donald Trump as a leader. He is the great X Factor. I do not know why he is not enunciating and illuminating a path through these thickets other than unquestioning support for Ryan’s bill, but that is apparently his decision. There is a reason why he is not explaining and exhorting how to modify the bill in accordance with his stated criteria for a replacement and the interests of the middle class?


    • Regardless of PDJT’s strategy (which I believe is one of flexibility and adaptation rather than being fixed), this process is definitely giving him the opportunity to spend time with many in the legislative branch and start understanding how the minds of the more powerful work as well as their psychological strengths and weaknesses. This direct observation and interaction will have long-term benefit.


  12. Justin says:

    I wish Paul Ryan and his cronies would simply have included all these other Republicans from the beginning. The media is complicit, but this makes the Republican Party a joke. Paul Ryan is a horrible leader. This passive aggressive hide the bill BS is unnecessary and unacceptable.

    Of course, Democrats have the upper hand in ramming their own legislation through since they have nude photos of everyone, but still….

    I’m also not buying that health care had to come before tax reform. That’s just untrue.


    • Andrew Armen says:

      No it is true for 3 reasons 1)Procedural Order 2)Obamacare Taxes must be repealed 3)Obamacare is collapsing faster than u know, that is not campaign rhetoric, but verifiable fact


  13. Michael Hennessy says:

    Phase I: Put a bit of lipstick on the Entitlement aspect, mandate, and Cadillac tax, while maintaining the 2700 page Obama/Democrat scheme and and the Statists grip on 1/6 of the economy. Promise the good competitive stuff LATER and blame it on the 60 vote threshold!

    Phase II: Send it to an un elected bureaucract, Tom Price, architect of the 3 card monte for regulation surgery. Don’t forget, he received his marching orders from Big Tech and some Billionaires at the Sea Island, Anti-Trump retreat exactly 1 year ago.

    Phase III: Send the good competitive stuff, purchasing across state lines, cooperatives, expanded HSA’s, prescription drug reform, price transparency to a certain death in the still present non 60 vote threshold Senate! There ain’t going to be a nuclear option.

    This is as big a swamp dance as you’re going to see. And the anti Trump do nothing’s in the Republican Congress are hoping the dancing happens on Trump’s grave!

    Liked by 1 person

  14. W Barna says:

    The Republicans are gonna keep messing around and get saddled with the whole obamacare fiasco. The only people who like obamacare are democrats, for the votes, and those being taxpayer subsidized to pay for it. I doubt any of these “subsidized participants”are receiving “health partner” coaching phone calls every month asking them if and how they are “eating right, exercising right, keeping their doctor appointments, etc” like their paying counterparts are. These “subsidized participants” for the most part don’t cooperate in any way toward maintaining a healthy lifestyle. They just pop into the emergency rooms and hang out until their undeniable service is rendered.
    Obamacare needs to fail outright and get hung around the neck of every democrat. Republicans need to whittle back on the subsidies for those who don’t even try and the IRS penalties for working, healthy people who are reluctant to buy a crappy policy that they can’t use for “preventative care” because of the high deductibles.
    Once the obamacare debacle has died and the stench soaked permanently into every democrat, then, with a fresh slate, start over.


  15. RICHARD CANARY says:

    It seems to me that Trump’s input will gain great ground the longer the House keeps running their Chinese Fire Drill. If he waits long enough to allow total frustration to kick in, then his “suggestions” gain acceptance as a compromise by the battling positions, allowing agreement by necessity.

    Then if Trump champions the 51 majority rule change, he’ll get it, along with the compromised points in the plan.

    Is that wrong? If so, where?


  16. Paco Loco says:

    ObamaCare was designed to fail so that the government would have to adopt the “single payer” system similar to the British NHS (that has been failing for decades). The Democrats, who have had “socialized medicine” as part of their platform since FDR, with the adoption of single payer system, will have finally achieved their goal, the US will have beome a socialist country.

    ObamaCare was a coup d’etat of sorts as it put the government in control of 1/3 of the economy, and more importantly controls how Americans interact with their government and who receives healthcare and at what cost, not the free market. Socialism is enslavement and the betters in the CoC controlled Uni Party are your masters. The Ryan CoC plan is just more ObamaCare rearranged with little choice to the consumer and a cost curve that continues upwards in an un sustainable fashion.

    To me it seems that the underlining issue is whether or not the US continues its march towards government control on all aspects of life or that the country can choose a path away from the tyranny of the State and toward limited government, and individual freedoms.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. James Tabor says:

    Sundance, I get from the article that the nuclear option is not available to the Senate for a majority threshold?


  18. Carol says:

    There is a simple health care plan already in place. Just give everyone the same benefits that all the members of congress get. Free for life. If they vote against it then they will also be voting to revoke their own coverage.


    • Paco Loco says:

      I’d love to see that actually proposed as legislation so we could see who really cares about “the people” and who is voting for their own self interest.


    • So&so says:

      Or Trump signs EO declaring members of congress and their staff be required to purchase obamacare and see how fast they repeal it.


      • Carol says:

        The same should also go for anything that Trump installs.
        Maybe then they will look at it closer and pay attention to what they are signing.
        If it is good for us then it should be good for them.


  19. HolyLoly says:

    This article could not make things more clear and exposes the ruse and kabuki dance being played as the swamp fights to maintain power and screw the people one more time.


  20. ALEX says:

    Here is what people have to understand…No reconciliation that throws the Medicaid money out such as just repeal only, is going to pass the senate. Two simple examples are Collins and Murkowski voting against DeVos because they don’t want the education money messed with…These are poor states as far as dependent populations…These are real facts…

    Something like the four your period to get a grip on Medicaid expansion in Ryan bill will be in any bill that passes..He didn’t just make that up….The only good thing about Obamacare is it did show how big the high risk pool is and they can be separated from the healthy folk getting pounded by Obamacare…

    As long as a hospital is mandated by LAW to treat anyone who shows up in the emergency room, the free market healthcare crowd are going to have to get realistic…Otherwise keep blabbering about healthcare isn’t a right, because it most certainly is….


  21. Virgo says:

    Letting it implode is going to invite Democrats and the media to blame Republicans, and they don’t have much skill in defending themselves from that tactic.

    The other thing that has caused unnecessary rancor with this bill is the secrecy. After the Obamacare passing skullduggery and the almost treasonous secrecy around TPP, nobody is expecting anything but disaster and corruption from such a process.

    A return to “normal order” would help people to compromise. The secrecy has caused distrust and division among Republicans. Democrats are just going to sit back as long as that goes on.

    Republicans must listen to their people and remove the obstacles that are in the replacement bill (or agree to later). Hiding the text, forcing conclusions on people and telling them to accept the judgment of their seniors is not going to achieve consensus.

    If Republicans can unite, they can then sit back and point to the Democrats some of whom are at risk, and tell the public that the house and the President is waiting for their cooperation.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Mac says:

    In the short term, nothing that the Congress does will completely reverse the high cost of medical care or insurance, except nationalizing healthcare and health insurance. Healthcare costs have been rising at several times the rate of inflation for the last 50 years. For the last 15 years, the costs have risen to the point where insurance is necessary. Medicare started this trend, Medicaid stimulated it and private medical insurance exacerbated it. It is now at the level that nothing, other than total government control of or the total removal of government support for the medical care industry can reduce costs to the point where ordinary peolpe can afford medical care without some type of insurance.

    Right now the Democrats own the healthcare situation, even though the Republicans have been willing participants in creating and supporting the conditions which have gotten us to this point. If a Republican bill is passed to “fix” the situation, it is doomed to failure, unless it creates equal or greater control of the healthcare and healthcare insurance industry. That is what will be passed, if anything is. It will still lead to total government control of the industry, but it will be more akin to the controls used in fascist regimes rather than that used in socialist/communist regimes. In both cases, government will control the industry.


    • This is a very pessimistic viewpoint with no facts to support it. There has been medical insurance for many more than 15 years and every since CABG it has been a necessity. The fallacy that worries me the most in your post is that Government can afford things individuals can’t. The Gv’t harvests its money from individuals; it doesn’t generate it form productivity. It can print money but in many sense that steals from the people by devaluating their $.
      Cost do not get controlled by single payer they skyrocket because of the bureaucratic layer & lack of competition & fiscal discipline.


      • “from” not “form” productivity


      • Mac says:

        It is simply reality.

        Medical costs have been increasing at much higher rates than inflation since Medicare was instituted. Back in the 1960s many middle class families did not have nor need medical insurance. They got along just fine. Even if they suffered a catastrophic illness, they simply ended up paying hospitals on time, just as they would with a car.

        But, Medicare only paid a percentage of the cost for a medical procedure. This encouraged the medical profession, especially specialists and surgeons, to raise their charges to ensure that they would receive more from the government program. These increased charges force those not eligible for Medicare to obtain insurance so that they could afford medical care as well. And, because the insurance companies essentially followed the same rules as Medicare, and paid a percentage of the charges, medical providers continued to increase the cost of medical care. This increased the cost of medical insurance, etc. Medicaid simply exacerbated the problem.

        Understand the problem? Now, we have reached the point where people can not afford the insurance premiums necessary to provide medical coverage without a government :subsidy”. Obamacare did not cause this, it only accelerated it, by mandating not only individuals to have health insurance but also the type of health insurance that the insurers could offer.

        So, the only choices at this point are to either nationalize the healthcare industry, impose government price controls and essentially become a single payer healthcare insurer or to get the government out of the healthcare industry as much as possible and allow the market to determine costs. Either way people will get hurt. But, I see no other long term solution to the problem.


    • yy4u says:

      I have an acquaintance who is worried she’ll lose her ObamaCare. She, however, has no problem affording a new car and the car insurance that goes with it. She also has a cell phone and a computer and has traveled to Europe in the past couple of years.

      It all harks down to “wants and needs”. People “need” health insurance ergo think the taxpayers ought to chip in to help pay for it.

      That frees them up to work to pay for their “wants” like new cars, car insurance, tattoos, piercings, trips and vacations, recreational drugs, etc., etc., etc.

      I suspect it has to do with human nature, with the natural ebb and flow of cultures as they move from hunter/gathering to agriculture to territorial imperative and on into a golden age which is quite pleasant and can last from a few years to a few centuries (Rome?). But at the end of the Golden Age, things start going haywire: Art becomes decadent, eating habits get weird, the family breaks down, politicians become corrupt….


  23. sundance says:


    • benifranlkin says:

      Good. And if so this is an example of people getting over themselves and their ideologies, compromising and getting some but not all of what they want and what their donors are expecting. Trump can look good after all is said and done if he appears to have the interests of all Americans at heart. He maybe can get a Democrat or two (Manchin in the Senate for 1) for added measure. It’s time for the grownups to show up. Healthcare is a noose around the Republicans’ necks as they control the House, Senate and WH. Let’s get ‘er done the best we can.


    • JT says:

      I kinda don’t want Trump to give rallies in favor of this. If it blows up and doesn’t get done, he looks bad and the GOP will point their fingers at him for a problem they should’ve had a solution for years ago.


  24. yy4u says:

    There is a difference between health CARE and health INSURANCE.

    One can have excellent health INSURANCE but if there’s no doctor/NP/PA or hospital available to accept the INSURANCE one cannot get health CARE.

    On the other hand on can have no health INSURANCE, land in a top notch ER and receive excellent health CARE (as millions of illegals can attest).

    “Nationalized” Health Care provides excellent health INSURANCE — everyone has it gratis of those paying taxes, but to get non-emergency health CARE one has to wait weeks or even months AND some options are unavailable. There’s a reason for “Harley Street” physicians in the UK. (These are doctors who treat patients who are able to pay out of pocket and/or have expensive private insurance. Lady DI did not have the princes in a NHS hospital. The current Duchess did not have her two kids in an NHS hospital.

    Americans need to be education on the differences.


    • So&so says:

      The term “healthcare” is so overused that by now most sheepole assume it’s the same as health “insurance”. Which was probably the intention.


  25. I would REALLY like to know the facts about Ryan’s bill and the reconciliation process.

    Ryan claims his bill does as much as can be done using reconciliation.
    The lawyers at Powerline say this is not so:

    To sum up their argument: 1) There are already provisions in Ryan’s bill that are not “budgetary” ones that would normally be allowed in the reconciliation process. 2) An adverse ruling by the Senate parliamentarian can be overridden with a simple majority vote.

    If this is true, why NOT change everything in Ryan’s bill that needs to be changed, override the parliamentarian (if necessary), and proceed with the reconciliation vote?


  26. 3x1 says:

    Pass RyanCare then use it to oust him in 2018.


  27. Steps 1, 2 and 3, got it. Seeing how “the process” takes months or longer for each of these steps, playing the devil’s advocate, what happens IF the GOP loses either majority come 2018 before all steps are done? What does the clusterflook look like then? Does zippy the fuslimcare all of a sudden look far better than the half baked mess the GOP shoves out there? If that happens, what happens to the Trump ticket come 2020? Lastly, if there are Steps 2 and 3, why are they not already at least rough drafted and put out there to prove how the whole zippy the fuslimcare goes away?

    IMHO, this is based way too much on assumptions of what the future holds for the GOP. Also, along with that the really wrong people are saying “Trust Me”, as if they never screwed us over before.

    I don’t support this and honestly hope Ryan and his POS go down in flames as people wise up to him and this.


  28. ellison says:

    Trump and Republicans in favor of this bill – along with their PR firms – need to stop trying to convince Americans that this bill is the “repeal and replacement” of Obamacare.
    Trump voters feel ambushed by the current proposals. This isn’t what was expected when “repeal and replace” was promised and this legislation is NOT what they voted for.
    Continuing to make overtures about phase 3 is another mistake. Trump’s voters aren’t stupid and are more than familiar with past promises of “future” legislation that never happens.
    People expect Trump to be straight with them and this messaging is presently quite contentious.
    Supporters will lose trust if Trump keeps this up. He is more than capable of doing better.


    • Justin says:

      Agreed. They should sell it not as a repeal, because it’s not.
      They should not sell it as reducing the costs of health care, because that part remains to be seen.

      They should sell it as what they can accomplish now with the votes they have, and urge the people to put more Republicans in office at the mid terms.

      In fact, this whole thing makes me wonder WHY health care was chosen as the first major legislative project for Trump. This fiasco should have been predictable. So many other wins Trumo probably could have gotten by deferring this.


  29. I think the question and analysis should be between 1) doing nothing…if Obamacare collapses, what then? It’s well on its way to collapse. Perhaps what serves the majority of Constitutionalists is to allow it to collapse resulting in major pain and consternation forcing Americans to simply clamor for repeal? 2) the ideal strategy, which is clearly a clean repeal of not only Obamacare, but Medicare phaseout, eradication of Medicaid and any other federal entitlement. They are bankrupt, broke or soon will be. If we are ever to be “free” from choices made by Progressives in the 1930s and 1960s, there must be pain…alot of it.


  30. jamesmacalistair says:

    It is not healthcare. Calling a healthcare bill is propaganda, and a lie. It is a bill to empower insurance companies. It is an insurance company bill.


  31. joninmd22 says:

    BTW Sundance, I was remiss in not thanking you for including my comment in your article.

    Regards, J


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