Training For WHAT exactly?

Not to worry, it’s only a drill…
Nevermind, it is only a training exercise….

Um, what exactly are they drilling, or training, FOR?

Seriously, everyone is reporting on “what” they are doing.

Fine. I get that.

Is anyone asking “why” they are doing it?

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125 Responses to Training For WHAT exactly?

  1. Sharon says:

    They are implementing public exercises involving TSA, black helicopters, military/police joint exercises, tanks in city streets–so that folks become accustomed to TSA, black helicopters, military/police joint operations and tanks in city streets, so that when they launch control and repression exercises in the city streets, no one will be too concerned.

    And the reporters will then say, “Don’t you remember they did this before? It’s just more of the same, folks. This is now the third week running, but we can easily observe the similarities.”

    Too bad someone can’t get to one of the helicopter pilots and ask him what he has been told his mission is.

    • lovemygirl says:

      Night vision goggles, stock up on a few. Standard stuff they may initially use shows up blindingly at night. F22’s etc, we are all dead. Not likely they would wipe out entire neighborhoods but “Me is scared.”

    • jello333 says:

      Yep. When someone first posted this video in the 1/27 GZ thread, I was concerned with both the “what” AND the “why”. I’ll just repeat the two comments I made there about this. (The first one was in response to someone saying that the military has been used “to suppress civil disorder” off and on for a long time in this country.)

      ———————————————–

      I agree that this isn’t new. And on rare, rare occasions it may even be necessary. But what IS different, is that while it’s getting worse and worse, and more advanced, a lot of people are OK WITH THAT. And that’s the worst part of all, if you ask me. Very few people are willing to stand up and say ENOUGH. This started getting real bad since 9-11. Lots of people have the attitude of, “Just protect me! Please! I don’t care how many of my freedoms you take away… whatever you have to do is fine.” And this is one thing that so bothers me about the hypocrisy of many of those on the “left”. They screamed about stuff like that when Bush was in there, but now that it’s Obama, they excuse, and even defend, what the man is doing.

      Oh, and I forgot to add: What we see in that video should be CRIMINAL! The buzzing the city with choppers is bad enough. But firing blank machine gun rounds? SERIOUSLY?! What if someone had wrecked their car because of it? What if some old man or woman had a heart attack? What if some little kid saw it and is now afraid to go outside?

      • Sharon says:

        Yup. The norms are becoming really ugly.

        I am reminded of the norms in the 1940s when the American Japanese were rounded up and placed in internment camps, and the rest of the country sort of went on with business as usual.

        I’ve been reading and rereading recently a book first published in 1955 and recommended to me by a CTH patriot, They thought they were free.… the narrative of ten Germans who lived through the Nazi nightmare, kept their heads down, did the best they could personally and with their families, and neither during or after it was over did they “judge themselves as having fallen short”.…they sort of took the perspective, “You weren’t here. You don’t know what it was like. We had our reasons.”

        Near the end of the book, the author is trying to draw his own efforts to understand to some kind of conclusion, and he says this:

        The Germans want, not at all oddly, to live. They would like to live well, but in any case they would like to live, well or badly. Their attitude may be unheroic; they ought, perhaps, to prefer dying on their feet to living on their knees. But they don’t;…They hate Communism, but they do not love what we call liberty enough to die for it. If they did, they would have died for it against Hitler.

        Perhaps we will soon find out if we are willing to die for what we call liberty.

        • LetJusticePrevail says:

          I have a friend, or I guess more of an acquaintance, who had served in Viet Nam in an “Intelligence” capacity of some sort. He once related a story about a female enemy “asset” that his team had tried to “turn”.

          During his contact with her she had led them to believe that she was a local South Vietnamese peasant who had been pressured into working in brothels against her will by Viet Cong, for the purpose of gathering tidbits of “pillowtalk” from loose lipped GI’s. Believing her story, my friend’s team relaxed their control over her.

          As they later discovered, she was actually a well trained spy who was quite adept at martial arts, and wound up killing two marine guards with her bare hands, despite her diminutive size.

          She was captured alive before she could escape, so my friend had the opportunity to sit in on one more interrogation before she was shipped off to a more appropriate and secure facility. He said that he would never forget her demeanor, and the way that she scoffed at the Americans, confidently predicting their defeat.

          When pressed for her reasoning behind what seemed to be (at the time) such a preposterous assumption she very calmly replied: Americans always brag about being willing to fight for what they believe in, but that will never be enough, because WE are willing to DIE for what WE believe in.

          • stellap says:

            I think we have people who would die for what they believe in. I’m not saying that I’m one of them but then, not all of the Vietnamese were willing to die either.

          • michellc says:

            Once upon a time I would have been one of those who would have kept my head down and ignored what was going on around me and certainly would not have been willing to die for what I believe in. I used to scoff at pastors who would say even in America there will come a day when you will have to die for life. Not in America I always thought.
            Now, I no longer scoff and that and realize that time is knocking on the door and I will choose to die for life.
            But I am also willing to die for what I believe in. This America is not what I believe in, this America is a country I’m growing to not like very well and a country I’m ashamed of. It seems every day I read another idiot’s opinion, or listen to another idiot’s opinion, or see another freeloader proudly using their EBT card and talking about all the different ways they can get free stuff or I see another get your free phone tent on the side of the road and think of all the freedoms these idiots are causing us to loose and I’m ashamed of my countrymen. So I wouldn’t die for this America, but I would die for the old America and imo that America never has a chance without bloodshed, the same way it started.
            That I guess makes me all doom and gloom I guess, but I believe thinking any longer we can vote our way out of this is a pipe dream.

        • SR says:

          Sharon, is it the right time for a thread on “what to begin to do” or “how do we begin to organize” or “what is starting to be done at a grassroots level” to combat the developing nightmare scenario that has been so completely identified and discussed.

          I for one would like some guidance on what to begin to do, how to begin to organize?

          Perhaps we look to history for some ideas:
          http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/A/AN012.html

          I am a solution oriented person like I hope many of you are. Once I identify a problem, I spend my time fixing it. Thieves are thieves and the current thieves are stealing our constitution, what do we do?

          I don’t mind leading, in fact that is my position of preference. I would like some guidance on where to begin beyond my numerous state and national memberships in gun groups like the Missouri Concealed Carry and the NRA. I have and will continue to send letters to my Representatives and Senators. A grass roots movement has to begin, perhaps it already has. Where do we look? Is there a component of the Tea Party that will provide a mechanism to organize under? I am awaiting a reply to the same questions from the NRA, but my guess is their answer will be to send them more money.

          We need focus and organization and people that will speak with calm strong voices in our local communities.

          • GracieD says:

            You may want to look into Freedom Works. From what I can see so far, they are not for any party, but for the Constitution. I am still looking into them, as politics can get tricky to say the least.

          • Sharon says:

            Thank for this, SR–haven’t had time to follow up yet, but appreciate your link and your thoughts.

            With the quick read I did in the middle of the night, my immediate take away from your comment was that last line: being able to speak calmly (and with some knowledge) at the community level. Like Rush says–be that “go to” person.

    • Coast says:

      The purpose has more to do with the men/women than the public. Its to condition them into thinking that this is ok…its like…”remember, we trained for this”.

      • jello333 says:

        It’s a video game. No, not to all of them, and not under all circumstances. But you provide enough distance and separation (both physically and emotionally) from the “target”, from the “enemy”, and it’s not too hard to get people to fire. Lots of videos available that show examples of that. One of the most famous being the Wikileaks/Bradley Manning tape of the gunships killing all the people on the street in Iraq. Don’t just watch… but LISTEN. Listen carefully to the reaction, both before, during, and after the shooting. Very scary stuff. Some people may say, “Well, they were firing at Iraqis. Even if those particular people may have been innocent, there WAS enemy in the vicinity.” Yeah, our soldiers had been trained to know who/what “the enemy” was. Is it really so far-fetched that they could be trained to start looking at ANOTHER group as “the enemy”? Surely we don’t think we’re safe just because we happen to be of the same nationality as those who might eventually be tasked with “keeping the peace”…. do we?

        • Coast says:

          And in fact the “nationality” part has been partially destroyed over the last several years, so it’s no longer a big factor as it should be.

  2. howie says:

    Thick as a brick. They are practicing just in case.

  3. lovemygirl says:

    Every year we have a premiere Air and Water show in Chitown. They have practices prior to the show. After the first Gulf War, I do recall how eerie it was to hear the fighters and never seeing them. Helicopters much the same, but you did see them more often. I always imagined this was what our enemies faced, what a disadvantage never knowing which way to turn or fire. I thought that was a good thing in the 90’s. Now, I just keep my trust in the men and women that sacrifice for us. Some of their leaders scare me.

    • Sharon says:

      “the men and women that sacrifice for us…”

      How do you know which ones they are? And which ones have been co-opted?—particularly once you get past the enlisted officer corps? Serious question. There is no way I will presume to trust anyone, in or out of uniform, because of some predisposition to trust. Whatever foundations for trust date to the past cannot be counted on just because “that’s the way it’s always been.” Right now, nothing is “the way it’s always been” (in one way) and in another way, “the way it’s always been” is not at all what we’ve assumed. Not at all.

      • michellc says:

        If you don’t know them, I don’t know how you can trust them. I have many family and friends that are currently or former military. I’ve had many of these discussions with them. To a man and woman they’ve assured me again and again the majority not only will not obey any bs orders, but they also admit there are some who will follow orders without question and there are some who would follow orders knowing the truth and have no reservations whatsoever and would even probably volunteer to do it. Many of them are every bit as worried and scared as us, some even more so because they’re worried they’ll be the first ones taken out.
        Almost all the military I’ve ever known, from WWII, Korean and Vietnam vets to Iraq and Afghanistan vets and even peace time vets have less trust in the government than your average citizen. Go into any VFW and you’ll witness a room full of tin foil hats.

        So imho they will know who they can use and who they can’t, the hope is they’ll misjudge a few and they’ll be the ones to throw a monkey wrench into many of their plans. So I’m scared of some of the military, but I fear the ATF, FBI and DHS much more. Those are the ones they’ve been able to mold the easiest over the last 4 years. I think it will take a little longer in the military, but fully believe that is what all the reductions are about, weed out those that won’t obey them. The Marines are one that are getting hit the hardest with reductions, that’s not a coincidence imo.
        Obama is killing two birds with one stone, making our country weaker to foreign attacks and molding the military to more of his worldview which is to eliminate enemies of communists.
        The only thing is, which is another hope I have that can help us defeat them is many of these he’s weeding out received the best military training in the world.

      • jello333 says:

        Right. There’s a reason the military trains its people the way it does. It’s not just to be sadistic. Sure, it’s meant to teach skills, instill courage, etc. But there’s also another major component: To drill into soldiers, way deep down, the need to FOLLOW ORDERS. Of course if that WASN’T a major part of the military, it couldn’t function. So it’s necessary. HOWEVER, it can also be very dangerous. If our leaders (from the top, in the White House and Pentagon, all the way to platoon-level) are willing to give immoral or illegal orders, just how many everyday soldiers will be willing to stand up and say “NO!” ?

        So really, can we be sure if the orders are given to turn the guns on US, that it WON’T happen?

        • Sharon says:

          Of course we can’t.

        • michellc says:

          That is true, but not all of them. I just don’t want to see Obama succeed in turning us against our military, because many of them may be trained to follow orders, but they still have a brain and a heart and they took their oath a hell of a lot more seriously than these POS politicians ever did.
          There are some I wouldn’t trust as far as I could throw them and there are some of them who I know the military warped them for life, but there are many of them I would trust my life to.

          • Sharon says:

            …and those you would trust your life to, I’d be guessing it’s because of personal relationships, personal knowledge or reputation. Trusting them just because they wear a uniform is the reason that won’t hold up.

            • michellc says:

              Those I know or have known, the majority would never turn against us. So yes, just like people some of them can’t be trusted. I’m just not willing yet to turn against our military and believe the majority will turn against us. The military is enemy #1 with progs, the story recently about the vet who was taken and held for a post on facebook is not an isolated incident. Many of them are in this battle with us and they’re on the frontlines and are just as worried and concerned about their country, their lives and the lives of their family as we are.
              As for trusting someone in an uniform, that fairy tale was debunked for me when I was 16.
              I have a hard time putting trust in any man but these men I talk of have earned that trust and they say the majority of the military will not fall in line, although they say there are some that will. Now that makes it even harder to know which ones will.

        • GracieD says:

          I have asked a few Military friends, and they say that while some may turn on us…most would side with the people. I asked my nephew, who is about a year out of Afghanistan, and he said that they are trained to follow Lawful orders.

  4. lovemygirl says:

    Anyone catch the reporter called them “Military Style” choppers? No goof, these were Military weapons, AR-15s are just styling.

  5. Sharon says:

    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8971311

    HOUSTON (KTRK) — The sight of Army helicopters and the sound of gunfire created a lot of concern Monday afternoon in one Houston neighborhood.

    • michellc says:

      That last sentence in that article gives me chills.

      “If it’s to protect our kids, I’m all for it,” neighbor Glenn DeWitt said.

      • jello333 says:

        And THAT is what I’m talking about. That is what Ben was talking about: “Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

        • michellc says:

          After the OKC bombing I ticked off many friends because I didn’t believe in making us safer by limiting our freedom.
          After 9/11 I ticked off many conservatives because I was totally against the Patriot Act, if being safe meant losing freedom, I didn’t want to be safe, not to mention I knew some day some evil person like we have now would be in charge.
          Actually, you can go back even farther than that for example after example where Americans were willing to give up freedom for the feeling of being safe.
          We have some true patriots left and I believe we have some new patriots who have finally opened their eyes because they can no longer ignore the water being splashed in their face, but there are still far too many who would rather feel safe and are too stupid to realize they are less safe.

  6. Sharon says:

    http://americangoy.blogspot.com/2013/01/drill-black-helicopters-firing-machine.html

    Drill: black helicopters firing machine guns in downtown Las Vegas

  7. Sharon says:

    This was last Aprl–in Chicago

    http://dprogram.net/2012/04/17/black-military-helicopters-conduct-covert-exercises-over-chicago/

    In a repeat of events in LA three months ago, black military helicopters buzzed skyscrapers and high rise buildings in downtown Chicago Monday night, in what has been described as an urban training exercise.

    Witnesses reported at least three Blackhawk helicopters flying in close formation, then separately, around offices and residential buildings for several hours.

  8. Sharon says:

    Five black helicopters conduct special ops in LA … January 26, 2012 … The helicopters, staged at Dodger Stadium throughout the exercise, were later spotted flying low over the …

    2013 Infowars.com is a Free Speech Systems, LLC
    company.

    So it’s been going on a full 12 months minimum.

    http://www.infowars.com/video-military-helicopters-conduct-covert-exercises-over-u-s-bank-building/

  9. Sharon says:

    http://theintelhub.com/2011/07/27/black-helicopters-seen-in-multiple-states-as-pentagons-deployment-of-20000-troops-inside-united-states-set-to-be-ready-this-year/

    Both The Washington Post and Russia Today reported in 2008 that the Pentagon was training 20,000 troops to be deployed inside The United States to serve as a response to a mass terror attack or civil unrest following an economic collapse.

    If they were really skeeert of a “mass terror attack” you’d think they want those millions of Americans who are comfy with guns to be really ready, really well-armed and ready to defend their homeland. You’d think. In some other world.

  10. Sharon says:

    These are planned exercises with multiple layers of personnel disbursement, transportation/materiel requirements and “clearing the decks” with local law enforcement.

    They are working their plan, because they have planned their work.

    What is the name of the project?

    If this is their answer, what is the question? And who’s asking it?

  11. Sharon says:

    http://www.pakalertpress.com/2012/08/29/black-hawk-military-helicopters-invade-minneapolis-during-massive-urban-training-drill/

    Minneapolis–last August

    In what many believe is yet another sign that Americans are being prepared for martial law, the U.S. Special Operations Command is conducting a massive urban warfare training drill in downtown Minneapolis Minnesota.

  12. stellap says:

    Glenn Beck on similar “drills” last year in Chicago, St. Louis, and Miami:

    http://johnmalcolm.me/2012/07/10/glenn-beck-covers-recent-spate-of-military-training-in-us-cities/

  13. stellap says:

    Other cities too?

    The Army also got the cold shoulder in San Francisco this past February as protests shut down a portion of the exercise which was to involve “five ships, 6,000 sailors and Marines, and four days of simulated combat using helicopters and F-18 bombers, tens of thousands of blank rounds of small arms fire, and simulated explosions.”(35) Other cities which have experienced the little-or-no-notice drills include Jacksonville, Florida, Chicago, the Corpus Christi area of Texas, New York, Charleston, South Carolina, and Oakland, California, who unlike their neighbors across the bay, welcomed the military. “If San Francisco didn¹t want it, we¹re happy to accommodate,” said Stacey Wells, press secretary to Oakland Mayor Jerry Brown. (36)

    http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/suppression.html

    • Sharon says:

      stellap, isn’t it interesting (in the same way WW II was interesting) how easy it is to quickly locate these items?

      And I notice they are published by a wide variety of bloggers, local radio stations, local newspapers, etc. This is not a “stream of lopsided info” coming from one source.

      The government is no longer of the people, by the people, for the people. This government is looking more and more like a domestic enemy. We have known for some time that many within the government met that definition–now the organization itself is looking more and more that way.

      • stellap says:

        It IS (scarily) interesting. Also wondering why we didn’t notice this earlier, since this has been going on for months, apparently.

        • Sharon says:

          Dot-connecting is somewhat of a serendipity thing, I suppose. Different things come into focus at different times.

        • GracieD says:

          I think we didn’t notice this earlier because we were focused on “distractions”. I felt that something more was going on, but was not able to put my finger on it.

      • michellc says:

        I didn’t realize this has been going on this long. Tyrannical government kind of is hitting pretty darn close to home now.

  14. stellap says:

    More interesting (and potentially scary) stuff.

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=e95_1359267780

    1.8 gigapixel ARGUS-IS. World’s highest resolution video surviellience platform by DARPA.

    They can see something 6″ long from 17,500 feet.

    • jello333 says:

      Even if we had the money to do so, my wife and I wouldn’t fly. The main reason now being the virtual strip search machines many airports are installing (and the pat-down molestations aren’t much better). Well, seems that they’re now very near to developing a portable version, small enough to be carried around by cops. Just aim and… voila! Coming to a town near you within the next few years.

      • mung says:

        They are supposed to be removing the high resolution units and some airports are going back to straight metal detectors. When I get a second, I will try to find the article on it.

    • lovemygirl says:

      20 years ago I recall someone in the NSA saying, If someone gets out of a tank to take a leak, I can tell you not only their rank, but how long their “thingy” is (ruder term originally).

    • Sharon says:

      That reminds me of a time we flew out of Portland, about ten years ago. We had a little bit of time, and were walking through the concourses, heading the right direction. Suddenly out of nowhere, there were about 8-10 completely dressed-in-black, heavily weaponized men, shouting and yelling, running through a large more open area (where several concourses went off different directions). Everyone was just freaked out, came to a complete standstill, and tried to figure out what was happening. They kept shouting things (which we couldn’t understand because of the echo from the high ceilinged architecture)…they disappeared one direction, and a few minutes later came runniing back through in no particular order, yelling and freaking everyone out again.

      Then. Dead silence. Whatever”it” was, was over. I went to a uniformed person of some kind and asked “WHAT was THAT???” She said real nonchalantly and kind of smart-alecky, “Oh, they’re just working on their training….”

      I sort of blew my top at her and basically opined as how I didn’t think that scaring people half out of their wits was the way to go about it. The fact that they thought that was all right scared me as much as the event itself.

      When stuff like this is done, just think of that: it HAS been approved. It HAS been reviewed. It has been blessed from a high enough level that NO ONE CAN OBJECT.

      I don’t like it. I don’t like one bit.

  15. lovemygirl says:

    BTW, if I were to design a far ranging surveillance system, I’d use modern versions of blimps with higher resolution cameras. The tiny one for getting up close and personal. Both technologies not only exist but are currently being used. We have lifting body type blimps with very sophisticated equipment over Iraq and Afghanistan. We have insect like robots already deployed.

  16. lovemygirl says:

    The good news is that helicopters flying between skyscrapers are easy pickens. The bad news is they fire back as do the guys flying higher up.

  17. stellap says:

    Just posted this on the Open, but it really should be here:

    From last March – can they kill U.S. citizens on our soil?

    FBI Director: I Have to Check to See If Obama Has the Right to Kill Americans …..

    • Sharon says:

      Oh, good grief. I’d sure like to know he checked with. (And what possible difference would it make to obama what that person said….that right there is a complete disconnect…)

  18. joeyp1 says:

    Somehow I knew that posting that video would open a few eyes..
    http://buildingthebridge.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/open-your-eyes.jpg?w=300&h=199

  19. ctdar says:

    http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8971311

    Are these “training exercises” an attempt to provoke someone with firearms to retaliate because they what was happening was a real attack?

    • maggiemoowho says:

      Wouldn’t suprise me at all if they were.

    • ctdar says:

      I mean really if this was just plain old training why the need for “shooting blanks” er dispite them “pinging” off buildings? :roll:
      Why not train with choppers getting lay of the land of the city and than if have to check functioning of their weapons do it out at sea or in the desert areas.
      Anybody report finding shell casings or bullets lodged anywhere?
      Lastly arent there city ordinances that prohibit helicopters, planes from flying so close to buildings? & if so the public has right to be told ahead of time that the training excercise was going to happen.

      • Sharon says:

        Ordinances, schmordinances. If they get prior agreement from local law enforcement to ignore local laws, that’s a non-issue.

        The public “has a right to be told….” Such assumptions are not relevant with our present government. And that is a statement of fact, ctdar. That is not sarcasm or hyperbole.

        The sheriffs who are speaking up across the country–I’m pretty sure they’re in contact with one another: they are not doing that only as lone Wolverines.

        “Why not train with choppers………” Your paragraph makes perfect sense, but it probably doesn’t meet the criteria and goals they’ve established for whatever this training is for. Firing guns over civilian heads in metropolitan areas, and “how that feels” for them is not going to be achieved by firing guns in desert areas. The powers that be need to weed out the normal Chinese and identify who the Mongolian Brigades are.

        • ftsk420 says:

          I was talking to my wife about this and she asked what if someone fired back at the helicopter.

          • Sharon says:

            Then that person would have given the helicopter the opening to do whatever it is they are pre-authorized to do next.

            Following the continuum–if this continues to play out in the direction it is going, is it or is it not eventually going to get where it’s headed? uh…..yeah.

            On election night in 2008, I was horrified and said to a family member, “The people who were in the streets and burning the college campuses in the 60’s are going to be in the White House now…” and I got this sarcastic rejoinder, “….oh, dear….are you hearing black helicopters, too???”

            Now—are we going to go to the place where the comment will be, “Of course I saw the black helicopters, silly. They’re the same ones we saw last week, Sharon. Good grief–next you’re going to be telling me you’re hearing the sound of marching and seeing ammunition dumps on the edge of town.”

      • jello333 says:

        Ah, but you forget: Laws and rules are meant for us little people…. NOT for those in power.

  20. diwataman says:

    It seems, at least according to this guy, it’s because our military suck at urban warfare so we need the practice.

    “After battles in Panama City and Mogadishu showed up deficiencies in the U.S. military’s capacity to conduct operations in urban settings, the army and marines began to hold military exercises in cities and suburban areas around the country.”

    http://books.google.com/books?id=zcfZAAAAMAAJ&q=%22military+exercises+in+cities%22&dq=%22military+exercises+in+cities%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jL8HUaPvOuTZyQGesYGwBA&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA

    United States invasion of Panama
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_invasion_of_Panama

    Battle of Mogadishu (1993)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mogadishu_%281993%29

    • ctdar says:

      But within city limits of actual US cities? Isnt that why there are military training areas scattered about country to practice on?

      • diwataman says:

        Where else can one find a city but in a city? I guess with all that money they could have built a mock city by now. I know they have things along those lines for training but I’m not aware of anything as large and tall enough to provide the training necessary.

        • ctdar says:

          fireman don’t burn down perfectly good buildings in order to train their technique or hone their skills. There are plenty of abandon warehouses in cites, buildings slated for demolition, or areas shut down at night that could be used for training.
          I think these excercises are in order to frighten citizens intentionally and thus make them more pliable to the will of the city, state, government….because oh Big Brother is the only ones that can save us.

          • diwataman says:

            No but they do set fires to buildings made for burning to practice. I don’t think we have anything on the same scale of a city for helicopters to train in. I’ve read they do look for abandon warehouses and such and do this but they also say they don’t want to inform the public because their tactics and such will be observed. Good lord knows I’m not trying to defend the State but I understand it. If there’s something nefarious then one would need evidence for that. That one article posted by stellep goes into some of it. Here’s another version of that same article.

            http://articles.latimes.com/1997-04-27/news/mn-52974_1_u-s-army-special-operations-command

            • ftsk420 says:

              If this happen in NYC it would cause panic. I have never seen any exercise like this and I lived in NY my entire life.

            • Sharon says:

              If it is nefarious, “one would need evidence”…..wouldn’t that evidence include a long list of articles from various cities around the country spread over a period of several months where no advance information was ever presented, no good reason was ever given, no one from the military or the police departments is giving a press conference to explain what they’re doing? —oh, that evidence might include simultaneous nefarious actions like the DHS buying billions of rounds of ammo?

              Taking a position that the available evidence must be cast aside and not taken, at least initially, at face value would not work very well in the GZ thread!! Especially when we are seeing, nationwide, something that has literally never been seen before. diwataman, why are your powers of analysis different here? If we’re already at the point that normal citizens can’t ask such questions about such obvious issues, then I give up.

              I think we don’t know whether it’s nefarious. And I think there’s a bunch of stuff going on right now which makes a picture that needs clarification. My desire for clarification and more information and more factual answers (facts that can be verified by the public) does not constitute a conspiracy mentality, does it?

              We know know what, exactly, it is that we don’t know. That is a huge problem. And I think it’s a real one. We do know this: the government is lying to us in full daylight, day after day, in spades. That’s not ok with me.

              • diwataman says:

                “why are your powers of analysis different here?” I wasn’t aware they were. The article provided answers to some of the questions you have asked especially this;

                “where no advance information was ever presented, no good reason was ever given, no one from the military or the police departments is giving a press conference to explain what they’re doing?”

                That is answered in the article.

                I haven’t looked into this topic all that much but at least according to that one book and the article this has been going on since the early 90’s. Here’s another that gives mention to it;

                http://books.google.com/books?id=Qwf1udr7lTMC&pg=PA345&dq=military+exercises+in+u.s.+cities&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EQIIUfTZGsSzyAGu1YCABQ&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=military%20exercises%20in%20u.s.%20cities&f=false

                I also recall reading about how rather common it is nowadays for all kinds of exercises that are joint local, state, federal in all kinds of capacities but like I said it’s not an area I have looked into much.

                Do other countries do exercises of this sort?

                • Sharon says:

                  ok…thanks…sorry! I should know better than to assume you weren’t analyzing. (Seriously….Sharon with the blush-y face! ;) I thought you were poo-pooing and patting folks on the head and saying, “There, there, now…..”

                  Even if it has been going on since the 90’s, I really don’t see how that, in and of itself, makes it ok. Our underlying problem is that we have seen the bold-faced lies in broad daylight, and we do not trust our government/military complex any more. So, therefore, how can we appropriately analyze major concerns?

                  I’ve lost email friends because of my refusal to join them in conspiracy hysteria.

                  I don’t know.

                  • diwataman says:

                    NP and like I said, I am not defending the state and I didn’t say it was okay to do. I think they could build a mock city for these exercises. I’m sure there’s more info out there on this sort of thing, it’s just a matter of finding it.

                  • jello333 says:

                    This is one reason so many people think 9/11 was an “inside job”, or at least that there’s much more to it than we’ve been told. Because just look at what can now be JUSTIFIED. Before 9/11, there’s no way would the majority of people be OK with some of the laws that have been passed, some of the actions that have been taken…. stuff like what goes on in airports, and these “urban warfare exercises”, and many others. But since 9/11, as I said, there are a LOT of people like, “Oh please, please save me! Whatever you have to do is fine, but just protect us!” Could we have ever reached this point without a catalyst…. without a “new Pearl Harbor”? I’m not saying 9/11 was an “inside job” (though I believe there’s far more we don’t know than what we do know, and I don’t think LIHOP is so far-fetched). But it sure was convenient. For those who have been wanting to move this country toward something like a police state, then yeah…. 9/11 was a god-send.

                  • Sharon says:

                    I do not believe that 9/11 was an “inside job.” Any more than the first towers attack under Clinton was an inside job. Any more than OKC was an inside job.

                    If my concern about the black flying things going “boom” is going to make people think that I’m maybe a 9/11 Truther, well then–shoot–I’m just gonna claim those black things buzzing all our downtowns are just flies looking for obama.

                  • jello333 says:

                    NO! You misunderstood. I don’t think you believe the “inside job” stuff, and *I* don’t believe it either. I don’t believe there were bombs placed in the towers or anything like that. And I DO believe it was al Qaeda and their people who planned and carried out the attacks. The only question I have is did someone here KNOW something was about to go down? Maybe not exactly what, but “something”? And no, I’m not talking about people like Bush or his inner circle. If that was the case, we wouldn’t see a continuation (and worsening) of things now under Obama. I don’t think it makes anyone a conspiracy theorist to believe some things don’t stop at the level of the presidency.

                  • Sharon says:

                    Boy, this really got narrow, didn’t it jello!?? Go to my new comment at the bottom…

                  • jello333 says:

                    Yeah, sometimes the only way I can “reply” is doing it from an email notification (like I did now). ;) I’ll go look for your comment now…

                  • Sharon says:

                    jello–I was still drafting my thoughts! Sorry….you know me….always too many words. :(

                  • jello333 says:

                    Yeah, I found it now. And me too… too many words sometimes. I had that problem a lot in college. Every paper I’d write would be about double the length it was supposed to be. Trying to trim things down was the hardest thing for me (still is at times!)

                  • jello333 says:

                    Hmm… I don’t see any of your comments after mine. (The one where I tried to clarify that I do NOT think 9/11 was an “inside job”.) You saw that comment of mine, I presume/hope. ;)

            • ctdar says:

              This is the same govt that didn’t move in to help Benghazi compound after 7 hrs of attack nor secure the area (paperwork & supplies) for weeks after. I believe it was CNN that found the copy of Stevens cable to state requesting aid & his private journals on floor of building. :(

            • ctdar says:

              Yes, sorry for not being clear, that’s what I meant about fireman practicing on certain deserted/teardown buildings as training. They also practice on cars that have issue or slated for junkyard.

            • mung says:

              Seems plausible to me. The big question is, if they don’t want anyone to notice, why not do it in Detroit?

          • jello333 says:

            “I think these excercises are in order to frighten citizens intentionally and thus make them more pliable”

            And I think you’re right. The purpose of this is two-fold. To keep US frightened and compliant; and to train those who might one day be ordered to “keep the peace”. That “training” being on an emotional level just as much as physical.

  21. Obama = ……………….Chavez??

  22. brocahontas says:

    How much of it is chest beating aimed at “enemies of the state”.

  23. maggiemoowho says:

    Why use the machine guns for noise though. I’m sure there are War Vets out there who could suffer post tramatic stress hearing those noises. Not to mention how scary it would be to the many kids or adults who didn’t get the memo that this was going on.
    Many, many years ago when I lived in PA. and our county decided to spray for gypsy moths using low flying helicopters. Well, to make a long story short, I didn’t get the memo that they were doing this and as this helicopter kept circling my parents land, flying very low, I was hiding our kitchen table calling 911. Needless to say my family still laugh about that, but it was very, very scary.

    • ctdar says:

      I can imagine…I live under path some planes take to NYC and ever since 9/11 a low flying plane heads out over the LI Sound on approach to a NY airport still gives me a start.
      I still can remember drone of the fighter jets patrolling the East Coast water’s edge for weeks after.

    • jello333 says:

      It’s wrong, absolutely wrong. And it SHOULD be criminal. But when it’s supported by not only the military, but also by local, state, and federal authorities… well, who’s gonna stop ‘em? This (along with a LOT of stuff that’s been going on for the past decade or so) is just making me SICK.

      • taqiyyologist says:

        Remember the very-low-altitude flyover by Obama’s AF1 near the Statue of Liberty?

        Absolute panic. Pretty much laughter by Obama & Co. (Until they were excoriated, then fake apologies and explanations.)

        What sick f**ks these people are.

        • ctdar says:

          Yes I remember that very well, total panic to see a Jet Liner that low in the heart of wall street area…not to mention how much that campaign promo fly by cost the us taxpayers.

  24. mung says:

    I thought it was against protocol or the law or something…to do military exercises over civilian areas.

    • Sharon says:

      This stuff is a problem for us, because we do instinctively want to allay our fears rather than confirm there’s a good reason for them; we really want to find a good reason for the odd noise in the back yard at 2 am, rather than discover there are armed men out there with crow bars.

      It WAS against protocol. Or the law. Or something. That, mung, is precisely the point.

      • mung says:

        The question is why are the states letting this happen. I thought there was a big deal about aircraft and how low they could fly, etc. because of the risk of one crashing.

        • Sharon says:

          Why are the states letting this happen? Possible answers:

          1. They’re ok with it–having long since forgotten about the little thing about states’ rights, and being firmly attached to the federal teat.

          2. They’ve been co-opted in some fashion where they don’t have the political will to say “no.”

          3. The individuals who are in a position to say “no” and would like to say “no” are being being pressured by others for reasons having nothing to do with this–perhaps having to do with blowing the lid off something they did a couple of years back. (see #2)

          4. The individuals who are in a position to say “no” are literally so ignorant that they don’t connect the legal/lawful dots.

          Seems to me the answer to your question is some version of one of these 4 possibles.

    • aliashubbatch says:

      And when did Barry-boy ever observe the law?

  25. yankeeintx says:

    Our gov’t has no problem training civilian Afghans to protect their homeland, but they are going to be coming after us for doing the same

    http://www.mutc.in.ng.mil/OPERATIONS/CivilianMilitaryTraining/tabid/864/Default.aspx

    • Sharon says:

      Ah, but the goal is very different: they are not interested in having our homeland protected. Not the same issue. Not the same at all. /NOT sarcasm

  26. arkansasmimi says:

    Wasnt it Air Force One, that flew low thru NYC airspace few yrs back and freaked everyone out? After what they had went threw, I could totally understand. Seeing what yall are talking about, I cant believe we havent heard more on the MSM (eyeroll) I know that in AR there are a few bases and cover many miles. When they have drills (play war as known locally) Sounds like bombs going off ! Seeing huge C130’s flying is common place, Intimadating to say the least

  27. czarowniczy says:

    Interesting that this was a ‘joint’ military and police exercise but the police didn’t know all of what was going on. Someone had to know as the potential liability from a bird going down during the exercise, especially in a town with so many ‘New York’ lawyers, is staggering. The police may have said that they knew nothing as they were instructed to do but that begs the question of who authorized it at the city and FAA level. We used to have the Marines and some specops folks using the huge number of abandoned buildings in New Orleans to practice vertical envelopment techniques, rappelling and fast-roping from helicopters, and attack helicopters zooming close overhead but nothing that low-level. I’d like to know who the Blackhawks belonged to, Guard, Reserve or Active Duty. From what I’m seeing I have a sneaking suspicion they belonged to the 160th Special Operations Aviation unit, I can’t see the Army and the City absorbing the liability of letting general aviation folks do those runs.

  28. yankeeintx says:

    The gun control measures are very broad sweeping. I’m guessing they are going to remove some elements and then claim that everyone should be satisfied. I keep hearing that “everyone” agrees with background checks, but I think they are planning to use that against us too. Imagine if “everyone” agrees with background checks, but they then coordinate with our doctors and exclude anyone who has ever been prescribed an antidepressant, or anyone who has been diagnosed with PTSD. They could disqualify almost everyone by expanding on what background checks will include.

  29. czarowniczy says:

    Just finished talking with an old friend of mine, retired from Army CI and Miami-Metro detective, he says they’ve been doing joint military/PD training there since the 70s. That doesn’t completely clear the incident here but does make it a little less ‘The Spotlight ‘ material.

  30. lcrurik says:

    In May the same thing happened in the Miami area. And I’ve been informed of similar events in the Los Angeles area.And observation of unusually painted wheeled APCs in the Fort Polk and Fort Stewart areas.

    Its called “preparing the battlefield”. It gets people used to seeing military action going on in their own backyard, so the sheep will not be alarmed when one of the many drills turns out to be the real thing. It also desensitizes troops to going through the motions in proximity to their families, so it will seem like just another training exercise for a while when the real thing happens. Even the troops and junior officers will not realize what is happening until it is too late and they’ve been committed and compromised. Some who intend to be oathkeepers may be compromised before they even realize it. The warning of the actual operation will come only when the troops are issued with live rounds instead of blanks.

    But what if their intended target just happened to be jihadist cells in the USA? And what if all those Benson memos were “maskirovka” to calm and mislead the Hajis about the target until the surprise swoop? Wilderness of mirrors. This is why technical intelligence goes only so far, and you really need human intelligence to discern the plan in the mind of the commander.

    I think we’re moving toward the final endgame. But what is the game? Where are the goals and who is on what team? And who do you trust? At this point I think we’re playing poker. If the patriots react by shooting first, they could provide the justification for a general crackdown and make themselves into the bad guys, Shooting first at the US Army would be a justification for general confiscation and martial law. As I’ve been saying, we must be willing to accept the necessity of absorbing the first hit. At this stage, paramount is the battle for public (and lower ranks military) opinion. And don’t fire till you see the whites of their eyes.

    On the other hand, such drills are a two-edged sword. Remember the old adage, an army fights the way it trains. Those in proximity should observe and study carefully. Think of this as training opportunities for us as well.
    Yes I’m at maximum pucker factor, been there for a while.

  31. lcrurik says:

    I meant to say the same sort of exercises are happening now in Houston.

  32. Sharon says:

    jello333–continued response–

    Deception re public information has so screwed up our entire country–look at obama’s base! That’s what a willingness to be deceived will do for a country. Look at Jonestown–that’s what a willingness to be deceived did for Jim Jones’ congregation. Deception at a group level is the most vile thing.

    I feel very strongly not being deceived, but I also feel strongly about not letting the fear of being deceived cause me to not see what’s right in front of my face. So it’s a serious personal consideration for me to be willing to publicly ask, “What’s with all the black helicopters?….over our cities?…..at dusk???…..firing blanks???….” That’s why I got twitchy with D-man.

    Thanks for your further clarification on what you meant…. Crap, for me to start taking some of this seriously (taking it seriously in terms of logistics–way beyond of being just in terms of what crooked and disloyal politicians THINK….I’ve known some of them were anti-American liars for decades–but now we’re talking logistics against Americans…)….to “go there” has really made me nervous. Specifically because I DON’T know how to analyze military training and equipment enough to know how to explain my alarm about this or that….

    ….and I’ve noticed (with great frustration) that those who obviously know the most about it are very, very, very, very careful about how they speak, and how much they dare say plainly.

    Crap (once again–maybe I should have gone with DWOOO the second time)…my brother was part of the flight crews flying missions over Cuba during the missile crisis–Naval reconnaisance photog with navigator credentials, so he was part of the two man crew in fighters that flew reconaiissance (he was taking the pictures) –and he wouldn’t answer even a general question about anything about the flights over Cuba or over the Russia-Finland borders forty years after the fact. So I get really frustrated with trying to ascertain where trustworthy analysis or information can be obtained by normal folks whose spidey-senses are buzzing.

    • jello333 says:

      Agree with all that. And wow… your brother almost had a front-row seat to WWIII?! Yeah, I was in like 1st grad at the time…. hadn’t even got my Duck & Cover skills honed yet.

      • Sharon says:

        Re getting solid, trusworthy information–it goes back to the saying, “Those who know ain’t talking, and those who are talking don’t know.” Crazy-making.

        • akathesob says:

          So very very true.

        • jello333 says:

          I had a aunt who died a few years ago. Back in the 60s, she worked for NASA… a crane operator building the rockets. She was friends with a lot of the astronauts, and stayed in touch after she retired. Not sure what, if any, insights she would have into any of this… but I wish she was still around so I could ask.

  33. akathesob says:

    Welcome to the all new Omerica!

  34. ed357 says:

    IMHO………

    They are preparing to turn off the food……..

    Will we be slaves or citizens?

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