A terrible and tragic incident. An Air India Boeing 787 departing Ahmedabad, India, crashes into a populated area during departure. Details begin to surface and there are no survivors from the airplane, and many killed on the ground. There are no words for incidents like this, only prayers for those lost and for the families of those now encompassed by unimageable grief.
(via AP) – […] Air India said the Gatwick Airport-bound flight was carrying 242 passengers and crew, with 169 Indians, 53 Britons, seven Portuguese and one Canadian. The Boeing 787-8 crashed into a residential area called Meghani Nagar five minutes after taking off at 1:38 p.m. (08:08 GMT), Faiz Ahmed Kidwai, the director general of the directorate of civil aviation, told AP.
Black smoke billowed from the site where the plane crashed into a medical college hostel and burst into flames near the airport in Ahmedabad, a city of more than 5 million and the capital of Gujarat, Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s home state.
Firefighters doused the smoking wreckage of the plane, which would have been fully loaded with fuel shortly after takeoff, and adjacent multistory buildings with water. Many charred bodies lay on the ground and parts of the fuselage were scattered around the site. Indian army teams were assisting civil authorities to clear debris and help treat the injured.
Visuals also showed the tail cone of the aircraft with damaged stabilizer fins still attached to it lodged near the top of one of the buildings.
In a social media post, Modi called the crash “heartbreaking beyond words” and said “my thoughts are with everyone affected.”
“It appears there are no survivors in the plane crash,” city police chief G.S. Malik told The Associated Press. Malik said the dead could include both passengers and those on the ground. “Exact figures on casualties are being ascertained,” he added. (read more)
Oh,no! This is terrible Prayers …😔
RIP … Amen
The flaps were not down. Pilot error or mechanical error. Most likely pilot error because they should have known they weren’t working before V1.
Flaps are supposed to be down to generate lift at take-off.
And yet another tragedy involving Boeing. Coincidence?
Ridiculous suggestion …
Some (many?) simply have to get off the “BASH BOEING” flight plan each and every time there’s a commercial aircraft crash. When a company is or was experiencing “bad press” — there’s the proverbial “blood in the water” and the media sharks will continue to circle ad infinitum because they know nothing else. They are clueless and many (most?) are morons.
So my suggestion would be — don’t go there …
This spoken from the perspective of >30K flight hours, both USN and commercial airlines over a span of 4+ decades — and nearly 25K of those hours acquired in Boeing aircraft that I would trust my life and the lives of my family to fly in anyday, anyway, anytime …
I agree.
Airlines are accountable for maintenance. Pilots AND ground crew for pre-flight checks.
Boeing screwed up when it went woke with some senior position appointments. That’s a business practice which backfired on many companies.
They deserve EVERY bit of criticism for the hundreds they have killed in their greedy quest for a better bottom line.
Boeing didn’t “KILL” anyone … but unqualified pilots from low-level foreign airlines most certainly did … and I’ve been “required” to train more that a few of them over the decades, both military and civilian airlines, so I know what I’m talkin’ about … certainly more than you.
And YOU ?? From your ignorant comment ?? I’m gonna’ go WAY out on a limb and state w/out reservation or hesitation that YOU know NOTHING about aviation or what went down in the media-frenzy “reports” of same …
You may want to do a bit of “stupid study” prior to posting again …. and demonstrating your ignorance of the subject for all to read … ??
Or get a Pilot’s License and learn at least an entry-level clue as to what you’re blathering about … ??
Cheers.
No, it is not. Between Boeing & the Feds (regulation) the safest aircraft is not making it to the line.
Boeing has big problems that have yet to shake out due to extremely poor management decisions.
You know at a minimum a TO configuration warning would bark.
Not rated in 787, however, it is remarkable that the throttle wouldn’t be inhibited in that scenario for obvious reasons.
You stated: “however, it is remarkable that the throttle wouldn’t be inhibited in that scenario for obvious reasons.”
Quite correct.
And yet you also state: “You know at a minimum a TO configuration warning would bark.”
Quite incorrect. And “Bark”?? O.K. , whatever …
“Spell-check”: YOU just stated above how “remarkable” it was that a system wouldn’t work as YOU expected it to … ??
I usually try to not contradict myself (at least in public) especially on subjects that I have only a passing knowledge of …
You might try that sometime …
Even the 737 Max and its outsourced software that caused 2 crashes and 300+ deaths?
The UNqualified foreign 3rd tier pilots were flying … NOT Boeing …
Try to keep up … I know it’s hard when you do NOT know the subject — but only what you read in the media.
Cheers.
I did keep up. You clearly haven’t. Have a coke and a smile…
You hardly “keep up” ’cause your post is ridiculous and completely irrelevant. You evidently know nothing about Aviation, Boeing, or what it takes to safely and properly FLY and airplane … other than what you read from the clueless chattering media … or … ???
But I should have a “COKE” … ??
I don’t go there. Coke rots your teeth … so does cocaine from what I hear …
And here’s your smile … say cheese.
<“737 Max and its outsourced software”
I don’t think “outsourced software” or “woke hiring” had anything to do with it. It seems pretty clear that there was a top management decision to continue to modify the base 737 design to meet customer demand. That may or may not have been a good decision (could make an argument either way).
A consequence of that decision was that the aircraft in flight exhibited undesired handling characteristics in certain high AoA flight regimes. Now this is a point where there can be criticism of Boeing/FAA decision processes.
The decision was taken to use existing systems that operate/control the horizontal stabilizer and add an additional function to manipulate the stabilizer to induce the desired “feel” into the controls. That may be OK, but needs a bit of analysis.
Apparently since it was considered unlikely the new system function would actually be experienced by line pilots the decision was taken not to modify training. Again, this decision can be questioned.
The design process was not adequately evaluated (IMO) and various weak points in the design were not reviewed (dependence on functioning AoA sensing for example).
Of course, “sky god” level pilots would sense that the horizontal stab was acting “weirdly” and take appropriate action to mitigate. “Children of the magenta line” level pilots may not. Which brings up the question of just how much training/experience should be demanded, and is automation a valid substitute?
I’m not sure this is ridiculous. If the reason the flaps were not down is a mechanical failure? Yes it could have been maintenance but it also could have been the manufacturer. When a company installs DEI policies, they deserve ALL of the doubt that comes with it.
At some point the bonus driven CEO’s decided they didn’t need to pay for the highly experienced workers.
I live in the Seattle area and have friends & relatives who work at Boeing. One says there is no more politically correct company than Boeing.
This is a very interesting article.
https://prospect.org/infrastructure/transportation/2024-03-28-suicide-mission-boeing/
FLAPS NOT DOWN is not a “mechanical failure” w/out an indication of some sort in the cockpit.
Not putting the flaps down however — for a variety of really, really BAD reasons — is a PILOT malfunction — and there’s NO “indication” in the cockpit, except for the CVR recording post-accident investigation.
The DEI you mention is certainly an entry into the equation these days … but you’re going to have a hard time convincing anyone w/ 1/2 a brain that the failed DEI policies in the Boeing Company had anything to do w/ pizz-poor perfomance on the part of the 3rd tier foreign airline pilots who crashed … and I’ve trained many, so I know whereof I speak … but how ’bout YOU ???
God, when folks who don’t know what they’re talking about purport to have suggestions/answers to hard, “need knowledge to know” questions … my eyes glaze over.
And even tho’ I’m “OLD” … on a good day, I still have 20/20
<“the flaps were not down”
Speculation, based on someone’s impression after viewing of a video.
a LOT of this is to create market volatility. the media does this purposefully.
the other part is just pure illiteracy wrt aviation knowledge *bullshitters*
I hate this timeline
God Bless America
Agreed. Stay safe, Brother ..
CAPT, was your flight experience with Boeing aircraft pre or post DEI? It makes all the difference.
There was a whistle blower set to testify as to what he witnessed who mysteriously died in his car in the parking lot of his hotel in Charleston SC within a day or two before he went on record.
The things you can get away with being a defense contractor.
Absolutely … even Eisenhower warned of this … and that was nearly 7 decades ago …
https://www.newsweek.com/john-barnett-boeing-whistleblower-predicted-death-scandal-1879548
My experience?? Regarding what’s called “DEI” but is just another failed attempt at social engineering??
Probably more than a little experience ….
And that’s both pre- and post- DEI (a.k.a.PC) … it began for me when females were first coming into USN Aviation post-Tailhook ’91 and was a complete “political” construct and mandate … it had NOTHING to do w/ “we need female pilots in Naval Aviation … and their Instructors were ALL “Santa Clauses” (gave good grades no matter what), were “face-men” (looked good on the nightly news) … and were generally “yes men” and thoroughly disliked by the “average” (there is no such thing) Naval Aviator …
And … it didn’t go well on many venues …that’s a “long and winding road” and story (w/ apologies to the Beatles) and probably better left for another time .. ??
But the airlines? YES … I was there when it was “given birth” and as an Instructor and FAA Check Airman as well as a line pilot … I saw a LOT of it and trained/gave check rides to many ladies in its early days …
And while training and FAA checking “our” female pilots … I found some were good, a few really good, and most were below average … that’s like 80% below average.
The PC hiring (PC — “politically correct” — that’s what it was call prior to the term “DEI” being coined) even mandated we not longer call the “cockpit” a “cockpit” … the PC powers want us to say: “FLIGHT DECK” instead ..
BUT … being a former USN carrier pilot, I KNEW the difference between an airline “cockpit” and a USN aircraft carrier “flight deck”, or “THE ROOF”, if you will …
So when the “mandate” came out from our PC “management” … what do YOU think most of us did ???
We said over the PA and in aviation-speak “COCKPIT” … and probably more than we might have otherwise … (smiles)
Hope this helps … unless you’re a “DEI” hire, then all is probably lost … ???
Yes you add a great deal of background to the origins of DEI as politically correct practices.
In the case of DEI and woke Boeing, it was across the board hiring practices that ditched merit and aptitude for checking the most boxes for diversity and inclusion of marginalized minority groups.
The Boeing whistle blower Mr. John Barnett in Charleston who died under mysterious circumstances had said not one plane coming out of the Charleston plant would receive his safety seal of approval.
I sent a link to his death in March of ‘24 that included that statement.
You speak of planes the way my late father did. He was a Navy flight mechanic on an aircraft carrier at the close of WWII who went on to become part of the flight crew for the fledgling Blue Angels.
God Bless you sir and thank you for sharing your wealth of experience.
DEI Boeing has put to rest the industry wide cliche’ of ” if it ain’t Boeing, I ain’t goeing(sic)”; but, if the flaps weren’t deployed for take-off as Mrs. Sunshine states in previous post, it most likely was flight-crew error.
Coincidence. There’s only two brands of large air transport planes left…….Boeing and Airbus. Boeing has a 50% or greater chance every incident that happens.
Used only half of the available runway needed to gain altitude.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/air-india-boeing-787-8-dreamliner-bound-uk-crashes
Betsy….amount of runway used doesn’t mean much. Rotation speed is driven by weight as well as ambient conditions.
There’s also the obvious factor of runway length
In the event, more details needed.
I was only reporting what has so far has been analyzed and leaving the early link I found
In no way do I sit here posing as an airline expert.
Not castigating you!!!!
Adding some additional info.
👍🏻
Appreciated.
You don’t gain altitude on the runway. When the plane is ready to fly, you can’t keep it down.
The black box will bring clarity.
“Used only half of the available runway needed to gain altitude.”
From looking at it from the satellite view, the runway is a little over two miles long. The taxiway only goes to the middle of the runway length, so it appears that mid-field takeoffs are the norm at that field. Pilot had a little over a mile of pavement in front of him. He gained enough altitude to get out of ground effect, which is about one wingspan’s worth of height, so he was able to climb at he left the airport operating area. Will be very interesting to find out what’s on the flight data (black box) recorder.
I’m not a big fan of mid field take offs myself. Prefer to have all the available runway in front of me. However, you still need to conform to the individual field’s published procedures.
Not true. The tracking data at this airport does not cover that part of the runway.
> It’s been verified that they did backtrack before taking off.
> It’s very unlikely that the flaps were not deployed based on the photos of the wings after the crash.
> …. and it’s very unlikely that the plane would have gotten off the ground at all with no flaps.
There are several possibilities here, but no conclusive cause at this point.
Possible that flaps were retracted instead of the landing gear??
Possible that the engines shut down due to either fuel issue or major system failure?
Several possibilities.
Seems to have been based on armchair expert looking at “FlightRadar” data which was incomplete. I guess at this point we don’t know what the computed Vr was, nor if the aircraft was properly rotated. However, based on what video is out there if the aircraft was improperly rotated IMO a lot of pilots would have recognized it from the video.
God pull them all close.
Yep, at full TO weight and fuel for London it probably needs 260 knots cleaned up (no flaps) to be making lift. Terrain warning possibly caused the pitch-up pre-impact. Lots of unknowables yet.
I can’t see a pilot and co pilot not setting the flaps for take off.
I agree with you but setting the flaps, trying to set the flaps, and believing you set the flaps are three different things.
The first did not happen, which leaves the second (mechanical error) and the third (pilot and/or mechanical) as possibilities.
With fuel and passengers, the plane was heavy anyway & with the flaps retracted, it couldn’t generate necessary lift. Unlikely a mechanical issue would have caused all of the flaps to malfunction
You “can’t see it ??” Happened at my airline …
Poor aircrew coordination?
It’s happened several times.
<“I can’t see a pilot and co pilot not setting the flaps for take off.”
Has happened. Thinking of SpanAir Flight 5022 in 2008.
Excellent observation…they took off very heavy and immediately the aircraft went into a stall and crashed.
In 1984 my husband and I took an Air India flight from London to Moscow. During boarding we were shocked to see all the huge bags, suitcases and packages almost everyone but us brought onboard.
The takeoff seemed sluggish and we were concerned that what happened with this plane would happen to ours all those years ago.
Knowing the people heard a problem with the plane before it crashed is the worst. . .
<“they took off very heavy”
Have seen no data on take off weight or balance, nor required Vr.
The pilot had called in a mayday shortly after take off
Yes, this is correct. That aircraft has a warning if flaps are not set correctly before takeoff. It is unimaginable that this was neglected. 😢
The problem is the Boeing warning sensors were made in China on a buy one get one free special.
With this outsourcing to chyna you never know if critical parts are sabotaged, like they have done to our critical infrastructure and the source code in Microsoft oS’s.
They are on record planning to murder us by war for over 30 documented years. They are financing the color revolution – right now – to break up the USA with a civil war, if you call importing 3rd men fighting in our streets a civil war. And we rely on them?
This reliance on Chyna is part of the plan to make us severely vulnerable to devastating attacks, their attacks, greenlit by the globalists.
It is pure madness.
Just recently they have been caught smuggling in bioweapons.
We don’t know that yet, he was far enough out that he may have retracted them.
He had lift to take off and power to get out of ground effect.
This was meant to reply to the above notions that the flaps were not set. Based on the video above, we don’t know yet.
I do wonder about the gear being down. This must have been very close to the end of the runway .
Amen!
Looks like a hydraulics or electrical failure induced stall to me. Plane lost its lift and entered an irrecoverable stall.
With a full load of jet fuel. So tragic.
The context suggests you mourn the jet fuel.
Mourn the fact that if people survived the crash, they most likely would not have survived the inferno.
it’s way early but I’ve read they only used half the Runway and the flaps may have been positioned incorrectly, not enough groundspeed before takeoff and inability of engines to provide enough thrust. It’s the first Dreamliner to crash, up to now an extremely safe aircraft. Tragedy!
If that is the case it’s possible that the pilots recognized there was an issue during take off, but believed it was too late to abort and took a wrong or ineffective corrective action.
Alternatively, there may have been a software error or a pilot error operating the software, and possibly a combination of both.
yep, software can kill ya.
<“Looks like a hydraulics or electrical failure induced stall to me.”
Have no idea on what basis you draw that conclusion. Was the aircraft producing rated thrust or not? Seems to be the immediate question. If not, why not?
Terrifying footage. Horrible that it crashed in a populated area making the losses even worse.
The lords mercy and comfort to them.
Looked like it was a bird strike…losing both engines on take off in a modern airliner is very unlikely any other way….
or incorrect takeoff configuration.
Yes, of course you are correct…my first inclination was bird strike like what happened in NYC.
Maybe both. Engine out from birds plus wrong take off configuration.
One survivor talked about a loud bang before the plunge.
One engine out, full load, at V1 take off roll at a hot and high altitude airport is what sizes the engines and vertical stabilizer.
Flaps need to set correctly though.
The black box will answer many questions.
I didn’t see any yaw, the power looked symmetrical. It was either firewalled or lights out seems to me. The gear wasn’t cleaned up either.
Wing flaps? Flight 255 out of Detroit
The NTSB published its final report on May 10, 1988, in which it concluded that the accident was caused by pilot error:[7]: 68
The National Transportation Safety Board determines that the probable cause of the accident was the flight crew’s failure to use the taxi checklist to ensure that the flaps and slats were extended for takeoff. Contributing to the accident was the absence of electrical power to the airplane takeoff warning system, which thus did not warn the flightcrew that the airplane was not configured properly for takeoff. The reason for the absence of electrical power could not be determined.
Internal audio and radio communications not released yet. This doesn’t mean it’s the pilot’s fault. It only observes that it happened. If they concluded a person was at fault then they have demonstrated an unfair bias favoring Boeing.
I worked weight and balance back then for that airline. I remember that it was a DC9-MD80. The CG (center of gravity) was made the aircraft too nose heavy– if I remember correctly, the STAB was somewhere around 2.9. Meaning it was massively nose heavy because all the cargo and bags were loaded up front. We always tried to get our STABs closer to 18 to 21, especially on the DC9s. Pilots use this number to set everything for takeoff.
About a week after the crash, one of the ramp chiefs working a flight called his numbers in to me. It was the same type of aircraft, and he had loaded it all up front even though I had specifically said to load it aft. The CG was as nose heavy as the flight that had crashed. I refused to let the plane taxi out and made the loaders remove the cargo from the front bins and reload it in the aft bins.
We had a huge argument over the radio and they were really upset with me but I didn’t care. I incurred a huge delay on that flight which was a big no-no, but there was absolutely no way I was ever going to let that plane leave the gate. I would have never forgiven myself if it had crashed.
No flaps on takeoff is a crash. The takeoff warning and configuration system should have not only been audible, visual warning lights, EICAS messages on the center information panel between the pilot and fo would be in big red letters multiple warnings. Certainly missed checklists and overriding of safety systems. If the hydraulic system failed, backups near simultaneously take over. I can’t see this over than manual override and pilot error. Maybe something more. At this point, I don’t think so. Any chance of someone sabotage this or remotely cause this problem? as an all electronic airplane, it is possible.
They lifted off halfway down the runway for some reason. I agree with your thesis.
Failed hijacking?
Yes, isn’t there a ram-air backup that automatically deploys to handle emergency hydraulics/electricals in the event both engines drop below certain % power?
Yes the RAT, ram air turbine, deploys and provides electrical and hydraulic power. Prob not quick enough to hyd deploy the flaps tho.
WHO on that plane was the CIA targeting?
Probably the guy who lived. Irony.
!
Amen.
Crashes during takeoff are usually from from pilot error (65%).
RIP
Eternal rest grant unto them, O Lord, and let Your perpetual light shine upon them. May their souls and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace.
Just tragic
Amen
And we are supposed to believe a couple of these aircraft took down the World Trade Center Towers?
Not this type
Not any type of aircraft could have caused the WTC’s to topple the way they did.
Its a physical impossibility.
Correct, but no one wants to talk about it or admit it. Been there, done that.
Loaded with fuel, all carpets, office furniture, papers become fuel.
Not this crap again. Here’s is what happened on 9/11 and why:
The collapse of the World Trade Center towers on 9/11 was caused by a combination of factors from the aircraft impacts. Each tower was hit by a large commercial jet (Boeing 767s) traveling at high speed, carrying tons of fuel. Here’s a simple breakdown:
For skeptics: The idea that planes alone couldn’t do this ignores physics. The combination of impact damage, fire, and gravity was enough—no explosives needed. Decades of engineering studies, like those from NIST, confirm this. Conspiracy theories often misinterpret or cherry-pick evidence, but the science is clear.
And no doubt brought down Tower 7 as well, right???
And the buildings just happened to compress into almost nothing, and fell straight down, just as if it had all been planned.
Where else would a building fall but down?
Real life isn’t a Godzilla movie. Gravity is about 99% of what a building has to deal with, so we build buildings strong under compression in one direction – straight down.
7 was brought down by “pull it”
I believe Popular Mechanics did an in-depth analysis of this tragedy and agrees with you.
Building 7 which wasn’t hit by a plane but collapsed, I’m unclear about.
I do have a friend who was at the Pentagon crash site w the military and claims he saw no plane remnants. (Against directives, he hid a few office moments inside his military gear.)
Can’t wait for your tale on Building 7, LOL
Sounds plausible – what is your explanation for Bldg. 7 coming down without being struck by an airplane?
Not a plane, but it was hit by a huge flaming chunk of the upper portion of one of the towers.
Hundreds of structural engineers disagree with you.
One survivor so far. 40 year old man from UK
One report said he was with his brother that was sitting in another row.
What an incredible miracle
The hand of Almighty God was on that man.
I listened to an aviation expert this morning who speculated that the cause of this crash was contaminated fuel.
Boeing has had allot of issues with the electronics and software that keeps these types of aircraft in the air for the past few years and their management has NOT improved to really fix these issues.
Let’s see what comes out over the next few weeks besides this potential CYA report that bails out Boeing.
Exactly 100% of anybody pontificating on this, at this point is talking out of their a$$’s until the CVR’s and FDR’s have been secured and analyzed…..🙄
Too much aluminum and and barium nanoparticles in the fuel. They got the mix wrong.
I hope the plane was not using this “new “sustainable green fuel” whatever that is.
What a beautiful prayer at the end of the above article.
Thank you Sundance.
For anybody interested, there is a pretty thorough wiki on the 787 Aircraft at the following link.
Boeing 787 Dreamliner – Wikipedia
One thing that struck as I read the wiki … fly-by-wire and avionics as well as control surfaces “activated by wire-software”, as well as allot of electronics to operate the massive new, non-traditionally designed engines. Boeing aircraft have been plagued with SOFTWARE, Dishonest Testing and QA/QC issues for the past 20 years.
If there was a software issue along side redundancy failures with anything involving the engines or control surfaces … the 787 becomes an airborne brick.
Why does it seem all recent failures of commercial aircraft seem be Boeing, an American company?
None for Airbus?
Sabotage?
How many non citizens work on these planes?
The aircraft clearly had power to the engines. Else, it would have dropped like a rock out of the sky.
The approach looked to be consistent to that of a regular landing.
I suspect it was intentional.
It was a “departure” not a landing … at least read the article.
Was not landing. It was on take off, looks like it lost it lift.
It did drop out of the sky, and the pilots sent a distress call.
Amen
FYI Reporting here:
Boeing 787 Dreamliner: A History of Technical Challenges Under Scrutiny After First Fatal Accident
https://www.aviacionline.com/boeing-787-dreamliner-a-history-of-technical-challenges-under-scrutiny-after-first-fatal-accident
The video appears to show a takeoff with zero flap extension … and a rotation and liftoff well short of the available tarmac.
One might hold off blaming Boeing for this one until the flight recorders rule out pilot error.
See post above. Battery issues? Could systems been hacked? Agree it looks like flap extension issues but will have to wait and see.
Would not be the first time there was a Pilot Training and Experience issue, no matter if Air India or even a US Based Airline.
Let’s see what emerges.
With an aircraft this large, this complex to fly and reliant on allot of electronics as well software … any number of errors could have cause this tragedy.
There are $$BILLIONS at stake here.
Potential Liability for 242+ deaths, injuries and damages, for: Boeing, Air India, Indian Government (as part owner of Air India and the Air Port) and Air Port Logistics.
Boeing still has to receive orders for 250-500 more 787’s to break even and turn a small profit, and then there is impact on sales of their there other models.
Allot of CYA stories as well as “Airbus friendly stories” are going to be coming out of the woodwork.
May G-d welcome those souls into his home and may G-d comfort their family.
I feel awful about this.
AP got the first part wrong… the plane was in the air for 27 seconds before crashing. Looks like it didn’t have enough power to get fully airborne/stalled out..
Also, the pilot did manage to put out a Mayday call so they knew something was badly wrong.
Absolutely tragic!
🙏 🙏 Amen🙏🙏
😢 💔
just awful. Lots of Boeing aircraft involved in incidents lately.
Didn’t Trump recently announce a big international commercial contract for Boeing?
Deep State and EU involvement?
So sad.
Who thinks using Boeing is a good idea these days?
How do you know this is Boeing’s issue and not a pilot or maintenance issue? Not saying Boeing hasn’t had their problems recently but I don’t think it’s a good idea to immediately blame them for everything right out the gate.
Just watched an analysis video that makes a strong argument for dual engine loss from massive bird strike right at the moment of take off. His close examination of the video above the SD posted makes the case that the ram air turbine is deployed indicating total engine loss.
I do. Boeing engineers are top notch. Worked with them on several programs.
Anyone care to guess where the software that crashed two max’s was developed?
Praise God, a SURVIVOR has been found!!!!!!!
One Survivor Found: Air India Flight Bound For London Crashes Minutes After Take-Off With 242 Aboard
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2025/06/12/air-india-flight-bound-for-london-crashes-minutes-after-take-off-with-242-aboard/
Thre is one man who looks disheveled who said he got out the door. ?????
amen
I’ve grounded myself as a airplane passenger, probably permanently…
🎯
Ditto. Last flight was in 1993 and have never regretted staying on the ground since.
In Jesus name, Amen.
That was a beautiful prayer, Sundance. Thank you for sharing it. 😥💔🙏🏻
1 survivor being reported. The passenger from 11A.
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/ahmedabad-plane-crash-police-finds-one-survivor-in-seat-11a-242-were-onboard/articleshow/121806395.cms
According to Times of India there was one survivor .
Oh, Amen Sundance, amen. Prayers for the souls of all lost in this tragedy.
Retired Magistrate here: Tragic events like this make it even more important to live your best life now. I am sure that none of these individuals knew that today would be their last day on this earth.
Each day GOD provides us with another wonderful gift: a new day to cherish loved ones, enjoy the creation that GOD has made and give thanks.
Don’t throw away this day by worrying about things that you can’t control. Give thanks that you have this day.
May GOD provide peace and comfort to the families of those who perished.
Amen!
Buckets of this, this, THIS!
That is what the NTSB terms “CFIT” or controlled flight into terrain. Pilot websites are speculating flaps were set to zero therefore no way the plane was going to generate enough lift to successfully take off. Which is what you see on the video clip, plane is nose up struggling to lift but is slowly descending into the ground.
While I find it hard to believe that a modern jetliner such as the 787 can crash like that on a clear day with what appears to be little wind, the video is right there. Terribly sad for all onboard and on the ground.
Blind speculation as to the cause of the crash isn’t particularly helpful at this point in time. We don’t yet have any verifiable information to support our speculation.
Far more useful would be praying for all of those who are suffering and grieving that God may comfort them and bring them peace.
2 Corinthians 1:3-5
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God.
For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ.”
There will be plenty of time later to assess blame.
Condolences to India; what a tragedy.
This is horrific!!
May the “Blessed God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercy, the God of all comfort” intercede with compassion and love.
Amen.
The boeing 787 is set up on take off to use almost the entire runway.
It doesn’t have to but does to lessen engine wear.
Its a different takeoff setup.
If conditions are good flaps on takeoff could be set to just 5% on a long runway.
The pilot selects engine speed and flaps- set to optimum.
I am not a pilot but I can see where this type of set up leaves little room for error on takeoff.
And its to lesson engine wear?
Remind me never to fly in one if these.
Little margin for error.
No, the pilots do calculations to determine stopping distance at take off speed for the current conditions. This allows them to know when it is too late to safely abort takeoff.
They never plane to use the entire runway and then pull off the ground.
When a plane gets to take off speed, it’s going to fly. You can only delay that slightly, the plane gets skittish quickly.
The combination of take off and stopping distances can indeed be a high percentage of the available runway.
Severe temperature can make it impossible to get a plane airborne on a particular runway at high weight and temperature and allow for the distance the calculations require.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8NYaGPphEE&pp=0gcJCf0Ao7VqN5tD
Amen. Grant eternal rest unto them, O Lord, and may perpetual light shine upon them.
USA Today: Miracle in seat 11A: Apparent sole survivor of Air India crash walks away from wreckage
Some (many?) simply have to get off the recent “BASH BOEING” flight plan each and every time there’s a commercial aircraft crash.
When a company is experiencing “bad press” and there’s the proverbial “blood in the water”, the media sharks will continue to circle because they know nothing else. Those same media types are generally clueless and their “early reports” are usually wrong. How many times have any of YOU been knowledgeable of the details behind a “news report” and found the “report” to be full of errors, if not mostly wrong ??
So I’d suggest you don’t go there …
I’ve trained more than a few “indigenous pilots” from airlines around the world (read: good contract $$$$ for our company) as part of my Instructor/FAA Check Airman responsibilities when flying for two US commercial airlines as a pilot. Let me just observe that 90% of those “indigenous” pilots were not of the “A Team” … definitely not on the “Varsity”, if you will …
I also watched the video of this crash and it “APPEARS” that the FLAPS WERE IN THE “UP” POSITION !! It happens — happened to my airline for a simple but tragic reason and with tragic results. So “flaps up” or “no flaps” position is a basic no-no on takeoff for most any airplane built in the last 80+/- years …
This spoken from the perspective of >30K flight hours, both USN and commercial airlines over a span of 4+ decades — and nearly 25K of those hours acquired in Boeing aircraft that I would trust my life and the lives of my family to fly in anyday, anyway, anytime …
CAPT_ALOHA
I would trust my life and the lives of my family to fly in anyday, anyway, anytime …
thanks for your helpful post and explaining the plane crash.
Maybe you could add… “with American Pilots that are NOT DEI hires, and flying into airpoints, that don’t have DEI hires… but are MERIT based hires. Also, maybe add… well not sure I would trust flying in airplane from 3rd world countries … with below average training.
But over all you comment is right on. We wouldn’t even be talking about DEI’s hires 15 years ago, … and Trump is going back to Merit Based hiring, so thanks for being a pilot and giving us SAFE flights.
India supposedly has very high standards regarding air safety. Your thoughts as a pilot?
India “talks the talk” … but in my experience over the decades in Aviation … they seldom “walk the walk”.
Check out the “food” at many (any?) Indian restaurants … (just kidding … kinda’)
Once while circling overhead Tokyo in what I’d call a significant holding pattern (many aircraft stacked up due to very bad weather) waiting “our turn” to commence our approach and landing in Tokyo … we nearly had a “beak-to-beak” mid-air collision (would have killed 600+ souls) with an Air India B-747 who was in/out of the clouds (as were all of us in holding) — but he was way, WAY off the flight track he’d been assigned … this I knew as we were all up on the same radio frequency and I could “hear” him acknowledging his instructions — but he was certainly NOT following them or flying them.
I YELLED AT HIM (many bad words you’re told not to use on the radio) OVER THE FREQ. AS WE PASSED AND GAVE THE SAME TO TOKYO ATC AS THEY WERE NOT FOLLOWING ANYONE ON RADAR (apparently) — AS THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN !!
It’s called just another SNAFU (“Situation Normal All “Fouled” Up) when flying overseas, no matter how “advanced” the standards (by someone’s standards, anyway) the country might be …
The Air India pilot continued to screw up his assigned pattern and was a definite airborne hazard for the next 5-10 minutes … then “our turn” came up and we left him, the holding pattern, the lousy weather behind and went safely into Tokyo …
Does the JAPANESE ATC use the ” SPIRAL DOWN ” Approach Like the Brits do at Heathrow ?
i Was Watching my Middle Son and His Wife arrive at Heathrow after Flying across from Baltimore Washington and i was Going Wonky as a Retired NAV in watching that Circus.
NOT for my Old Age.
No … their ATC basically mimics the USA variety of holding patterns and “cleared for approach” release from same … and USA ATC … that’s where the J’s got most of their “knowledges” post-WW2 … and overall, they are quite good.
Matter of fact, my 2nd (and last) airline was the “Sensei” for JAL (Japan Air Lines) when it emerged, once again, post-WW2. And they are “quite good” as well … and I know, as I’ve trained some of their pilots.
You are exactly right.
It’s strange to see so many people who recognize narratives when it comes to what the cabal has put this country through, but seem oblivious to it in other circumstances.
Narratives, with media amplification, are used all the time for a variety of reasons.
^^^^^^ This. Every single one of the 737 MAX incidents were foreign pilots and attributable to inadequate training and standards.
I flew the majority of my time in Airbus products. They’re good aircraft, and so are Boeing aircraft.
All this anti-Boeing rhetoric is just that, rhetoric, based upon false narrative engineering.
You mentioned: “Every single one of the 737 MAX incidents were foreign pilots and attributable to inadequate training and standards.”
And FWIW, that’s been my appreciation of those crashes from the get-go …
AUTOMATION DOES NOT – MAKE a Pilot or Crew
It MAY HELP THEM. ( OR May Overwhelm Them )
AFFIRM. And I learned that on more than one occasion …
Example from the Way-Back Machine: … when flying in the USN Reserves as an Adversary Pilot (think: the movie TOPGUN … I may have been VIPER in the ‘real world’) I was frequently butting heads w/ the best-of-the-West in their F-14, FA-18, F-15, F-16 mounts … and all the while when “driving” my 25 year old A-4 Skyhawk w/ my 40 year old body …
I always went into a “fight” w/ confidence in my ability, my aircraft, my “fight”, and the final outcome.
Modern electronics ?? Automation ?? Improved avionics ??
What counts is the man, the machine, and how “the man” uses that machine … always has, always will …
A No flap TO should have a very noisy TO configuration warning. Maybe overweight and flaps up too early?
Boeing, Boeing, Boeing. The company is literally a disaster. FAA included.
Pilots may have inadvertently turned the audible warning horn/tone off.
There’s nothing wrong with Boeing aircraft.
Was thinking the same. Factor in outdoor temperature, overweight load and no flap adjustment for takeoff.
If you watch Air Disasters on the National Geographic Channel, which goes behind the scenes of actual accident investigation, you will be surprised how often the warning alerts are disabled or ignored – and how often flaps are not configured for takeoff, even with experienced, western crews.
Hey Sundance this no kings day stuff on Trump bday. Does that not feel like American Gladio Op to you?
Boeing……….
One survivor.
Unimaginable sorry for the family & friends of the victims. It’s a solid reminder that life is fragile. Nothing compares with the promise of eternal life with our Creator. John 3:16. I greatly appreciate the invaluable information on the most important site in the world. More than that professor Sundance & his special team of administrators encourage my faith in the everlasting love of God for His children. Where else is the Lord’s Prayer placed front and center as a testament to the true meaning of this life? Good bless all my CTH brothers & sisters!
It’s amazing that giant plane didn’t take that little building down but a much smaller plane took down the WTC.
A 787-8 isn’t all that giant, it’s smaller than a 777 and only a little larger than the 767’s that took down the WTC.