The CIA and Intelligence Community working together with Silicon Valley tech teams to develop best in class AI systems, using references from prior nuclear weapon development, “The Manhattan Project.” Huh, what could possibly go wrong. {GO DEEP}
BREITBART – CIA Director John Ratcliffe told Breitbart News last week that President Donald Trump’s administration is considering creating a national laboratory akin to the Manhattan Project to help develop and steer the future of Artificial Intelligence (AI).
“When you talk about AI, one of the things I want to explore is whether we can expand and establish a national laboratory for the development of AI to help the U.S. government leverage emerging technology to make sure American leadership is that,” Ratcliffe told Breitbart News in his first interview as CIA director last week.
[…] Ratcliffe explained the idea for national laboratories dates back to the Manhattan Project, where the U.S. government helped scientists develop nuclear weapons that won World War II for the United States and allied nations. He said the recent announcement from Trump of “Project Stargate,” the half-trillion-dollar initiative to promote AI, could be expanded upon to include more public-private partnerships akin to the Manhattan Project that get the U.S. out in front of the nation’s adversaries on AI.
“You saw this initiative the president discussed—Project Stargate—which is the four-year, $500 billion AI infrastructure project that’s been proposed with all of our great technology companies,” Ratcliffe said. “We could expand on that with a public-private partnership where a government element could participate, and we’ve done this before—our constellation of national laboratories can be traced back to the Manhattan Project, which we used as a public-private partnership to develop the first nuclear weapon to win World War II. We need to be thinking about the ways we can do that to counter how our adversaries are using things like the cyber threats to their strategic advantage and putting our national security interests in a place where we’re able to harness the data and computational speed of AI to understand trends and events and threats and opportunities faster than our adversaries do.” (read more)
On Christmas Day last year, CTH predicted exactly this scenario {SEE HERE}; only we took it forward to its logical conclusion. You know, the part no one thinks about until the weapon is created…. Then, suddenly, as if on cue, this pops up:
[Source]
The system to classify Americans by personage is currently being developed inside the silos of the Intelligence Community, the Dept of Homeland Security and combined with the technological creations of those who are contracted to build it – like Palantir (Peter Thiel).
Within this matrix of categorized Americans there will be those who are not subjected to the surveillance, their constitutional rights will be protected, and they will be afforded all benefit of personage. However, there will be lower classes who are continual targets for it who do not have such protection. There is no way to avoid this caste system outcome; in fact, many components of it are already in place.
Peter Thiel (Palantir), Elon Musk (xAI, SpaceX), Larry Ellison (Oracle), David Sacks and a host of mutually aligned artificial intelligence builders stand to benefit financially from a technologically efficient Surveillance State. Their companies and their AI software products are the targeting tools within the DHS surveillance system itself. Do not be misled by their ownership of different companies within this construct, they are all mutually allied; factually, they are all friends in the same tech sector….
…. And now the CIA is directly saying, the IC should engage and support the emerging science.
There is no way to avoid being the target of an AI weapon once that weapon is created. However, unlike the mutually assured destruction within the nuclear analogy, there will be no threat of mutual application within the surveillance bomb.
There are going to be tiers of people who are not subjected to the rules of the Surveillance State. There are going to be tiers of people, powerful, influential, some intensely rich people, to whom the application of the surveillance does not exist.
I have already seen this ‘tiered’ system starting to come into place. I have witnessed firsthand the outcomes of the software being deployed within the design of their building.
I have witnessed real identities masked by the system as an outcome of their status. Facial recognition programs that black out search results based on arbitrary definitions and determinations of those who control the surveillance application.
Congress reauthorized FISA-702 only after ensuring the warrantless database searches could not be used against any member of congress or their staff.
In the private sector, I wonder how much it would cost to qualify and register for the “grey people” list?
Which candidate do we donate to? Vance ’28?
GenAI depends on its training and it’s training is directed by its owners.
Like swords or firearms, it won’t be uninvented. Do we prefer to be guiding it or should that be up to Soros and that ilk?
Like the Manhattan Project, this is a terrible thing but we cannot sit by and not participate. Our enemies will leverage this technology against us.
The major difference between this and the Manhattan Project is, you can never develop a tactical nuke to target a single US citizen and there is zero discretion in its use. AI will be a dark force, always hiding in the shadows as well as plain sight.
With a ton of irony, the Chinese may have provided our best weapon against it. Cheap, highly functional AI, that could dribble down to the masses rather quickly. Question will be, will countless small AI’s be greater than a few mega-national AI’s. Just as hundreds of millions of small arms are greater than ‘ol Joe’s “fighter jets”.
Yes. LLMs draw the big attention but topical SLMs are more effective, accurate, and efficient. We mere plebeians can have these without even needing our own personal dedicated GPU mega clusters and nuke plants.
And no danger whatsoever that they will ever be co-opted or corrupted.
Right?
A box not connected to any other system and for which patching is not done or done only by code thoroughly reviewed by its owner(s) (whatever ‘thoroughly’ means to you, from trusting a source to reading the open source code oneself) is secure from being compromised.
Anything else has varying degrees of risk. Was there a less obvious question somewhere in there?
I see it as putting the cart before the horse. Constitutional governance of, for, and by the people is the horse and new government powers, like AI, the cart. The horse is crippled and caged and the cart is a million miles down the road.
Trump should stop these weapons and focus entirely on restoring constitutional governance first. Then THE PEOPLE can have this conversation.
This STARTS with restoring our election systems.
That’s my opinion.
“Question will be, will countless small AI’s be greater than a few mega-national AI’s.”
Seems to me that question can only be answered by a war between AI’s.
Brother against brother…
Data vs Lore, TNG.
Data won…
Trust God.
Fear not.
Why was the Manhattan Project a “terrible” thing?
Probably not the case if one had just survived the Okinawa bloodbath along the Shuri Line at the tail end of the island hopping strategy – point-of-view kinda thing under the aegis of unconditional surrender that was set policy. The estimates for civilian and military losses for a direct invasion of Honshu Island/Japan were enormous.
History isn’t that simple.
You seem to be answering a question that was not asked. Or maybe you do not know what the Manhattan Project was. Hint: It wasn’t the bombing of Japan.
Snark can be funny.
Spreading BS? Not so much.
Geez this gets tiresome. For the intellectually limited: “Like the Manhattan Project, this is a terrible thing but we cannot sit by and not participate.”
That, my not a friend, is called a simile. I don’t care about the focus in the rest of the post. The Manhattan Project was not a terrible thing for the warfighters – you know, a career path 90% plus on this board never pursued (certainly not in combat). Excuse me for pointing out it was not terrible for the warfighter and, if it has to be spelled out for the hard of understanding, not a terrible “thing” from this perspective.
As for the rest of the apocalyptic fear-mongering, it’s borderline vapid.
Cars, guns, pharmaceuticals and a gazillion forms of technology can and do kill people. Yet, society figures out a risk calculus and makes decisions.
Reread Sundance’s posts carefully. The root of his foreboding doesn’t lay exclusively in pervasive surveillance infringing on liberty. He has repeated over and over that he does not believe the people in charge can ever be trusted not to use that capability, to borrow a phrase, for evil purposes – which includes eroding if not destroying Constitutionally founded liberties.
AI has already happened. Please explain the fine print on how that can be stopped in actionable terms. Disallowing it is not the answer: Thou Shalt not AI! Further explain, in detailed terms, how that is done without impinging upon other cherished values (e.g., limited government control, enforcement, oversight, cost, etc.).
In my own mind, there are already some natural filters (e.g., cost of energy, cooling, land use), other viable approaches (e.g., data use constraints such as existing privacy laws), technical controls (e.g., access, database security, etc.).
AI wasn’t needed for the Shuzstaffel to maintain meticulous records on entire segments of population to enable the kind of totalitarian terror you and others envision. It speeds things up certainly. But it is also a system-of-systems that has its own vulnerabilities. AI isn’t needed to target individuals. See Donald Trump and conservatives generally for an example: the people and capabilities are already in place to do that.
Nope. At least in my mind, the path here includes guardrail regulations that buttress our Constitutional rights. But, at its heart, it requires trustworthy keepers of the AI flame (be those political, business or other ascendant classes in our society).
The challenge isn’t to shed AI – which is what many seem to be advocating. The challenge is to figure out how to put it to societal benefit (which includes the pure pursuit of knowledge such as cosmology) while maintaining our fundamental liberties.
Come up with a practicable solution. Tough problems are not usually solved by glib solutions. And this one is a tough problem – on many levels.
Exactly. I read X posts from a guy who worked for Altman and quit. He said he is very worried because eventually AI will be smarter than us. At that point he fears humanity may be destroyed by its creation. USSR did not have AI and they killed millions. The deepest concerns do not come from the governments, corporations, and people that use AI. It is from AI itself.
That said, all technology is a double edge sword when it comes to freedom. MSM is no longer the gate keeper. Even You Tube with all its censorship has been a huge plus for freedom and individual empowerment.
You really seem keen on arguing your own made up conversation. Like this drivel, “AI has already happened. Please explain the fine print on how that can be stopped in actionable terms.”
At what point did I advocate a solution based on “stopping AI”. In fact, I imagined a solution of more attainable AI as a possible solution to state driven ambitions. My whole point was the genie was out of the bottle. Same thing with the Manhattan project. Only the sickest of idiots would WANT a world with nuclear weapons, but again, the genie was out of the bottle and the US had to respond.
I was not saying the Manhattan Project was a mistake. I was stating it was a necessary evil.
I’ll stop there as to not further credit your fictional conversation.
At Long Last, We Have Created the Torment Nexus from Classic Sci-Fi Novel: Don’t Create The Torment Nexus
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2025/01/14/torment-nexus/
“I have no mouth, and I must scream! “
It was a relatively few years after we dropped the bombs on Japan, that Russia tested their Nukes, having stolen the technology from us.
And China has embedded themselves in our acedemia, and stolen intellectual property, military ‘secrets’ etc.
I am not sure our current society has the stomach to hang spies, like we did the Rosenburgs,…
Drone swarm attacks, and MIRV Hypersonic missiles can only be thwarted with an Iron dome, if its operated by AI.
as for the survellence State, it already exists,…for me the line in the sand will be a Universal Biometric I.D. and Digital Currency linked to it.
“We knew the world would not be the same. A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent. I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita. Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says, “Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds.” I suppose we all thought that one way or another.”
J R Oppenheimer, top scientist for the Manhattan Project, and father of the Atomic Bomb.
ANYONE who understands how this works knows this:
When government announces it is thinking of doing something, it means they are about to go public with what they have been doing.
The structure has been set up, tested and implemented.
We just haven’t announced it.
In for a penny, in for a pound. We’ve already reached critical mass since the Patriot Act – they’re just implementing the technological aspects. Our only salvation is Jesus, or an asteroid.
EMP
Speaking of the penny, Elon has targeted it for elimination. I believe this is the first public assault the private fiat currency, so as to introduce tracking technology into any new issues of fiat currency.
Putting control in government hands makes me sick. We just lived through weaponized government right out in the open without any fear. And the crooked intelligence community getting their hands on this. God help us.
Ignoring the fact that NOTHING that runs on electricity is secure, “Secure” and AI are mutually exclusive concepts.
lol. There is always an Achilles heel.
This is dangerous, no doubt.
I now understand why Jesus speaks of the sword of truth.
Live your best life. Love your neighbor. Trust God.
If I thought we were dealing with honorable, ethical actors, maybe I could listen to the argument here. But we are dealing with people who have systematically abused their power, violated the Constitution, and gone after President Trump twice. So, a hard no to this scheme. Donald is a spender. He thinks America is going to economically blow her way out of the current financial difficulties. He’s wrong. Before he or anyone begins throwing money at investors who are clamoring to save us, maybe he should make certain some spending cuts actually went through to the implementation stage. He could start with the pig that won’t fly: F-35. I also think the furor over AI is overblown, heated up by actors who stand to gain trillions. Their views are not dispassionate.
There hasn’t been this much hype since to tulip craze.
I wonder how many/few understand your reference, granted here more than the general populace….
Tulip crazeThe tulip craze, also known as tulip mania, was a period in the Dutch Golden Age when contract prices for tulip bulbs reached extraordinarily high levels. This phenomenon occurred in the early 1630s and reached its peak in late 1636. According to popular legend, the tulip craze took hold of all levels of Dutch society, from the wealthiest merchants to the poorest chimney sweeps. People were buying bulbs at high prices and selling them for even more, leading to the formation of companies just to deal with the tulip trade.
The tulip craze began when tulips were introduced to Europe in the 16th century and became a coveted luxury item in the Netherlands. The flowers were unique due to their intense saturated petal colors and quickly grew in popularity. By the 1630s, rare varieties of tulips were being traded at exorbitant prices, with some bulbs selling for more than 10 times the annual income of a skilled artisan.
However, the market collapsed dramatically in February 1637, when doubts arose about the sustainability of the high prices. As a result, many traders who had already made their payments were left in debt or bankrupted. This event is often cited as the first recorded speculative bubble or asset bubble in history and serves as a model for understanding financial bubbles in genera
Oh, like Crypto, only slightly more real.
Fast forward about 3 centuries and they were eating tulip bulbs I believe.
Our Government is creating a 1984 environment. They will turn our TV sets into surveillance cameras and record our every movements in our own living rooms and can interrupt anything we are watching to warn us about behaviors they suspect would undermine their power to control our activities. This is bleeping crazy, and Trump had better have a very good reason for what he is getting us into. Our Constitution apparently doesn’t mean anything, to anyone in the DC Swamp, anymore. I guess I have always known that and all I can do is rant about it.
We could just be burnt toast already in the heating cycle.
Please replace “TV sets” with Smart Phone. What you fear has already been done. Your smatrphone is tracked, mic and camera always on, everything you say or text recorded. People willingly give up their Liberty to possess the devil’s right hand.
This phone is a pretty good compromise, you can get versions with no Google apps:
The F1 Feature Phone – Sunbeam Wireless – Kosher phones with tools for simple living
I’ve used the Orchid phone since 2022 and been very happy with it.
I thought my phone was retro!
https://sunbeamwireless.com/
https://www.reddit.com/r/dumbphones/comments/xhd693/be_wary_sunbeam_f1/
https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/sunbeam-f1
Yeah. I have a dumb phone Text and talk, No GPS. Of course they can still find me thru triangulation. LOL
My wife insists I have a phone. I do a lot of outdoor stuff so I have to keep in touch when I can get service when she is not with me so she does not worry.
There is that “Fear” thingy again… How did ‘partners’ cope, before these idiot phones? Excuses.
I agree with Auminer. Before cell phones, there were lots of pay phones all over the place, so it was easier to stay connected. Even on highways, there were emergency phones. Most of those are gone now. So yeah, I carry a cheap cell phone with me.
Especially as a single woman, if my car breaks down, I am grateful to be able to call someone to tow me or pick me up. Or to pick up calls from my elderly mom when I’m on the road. (Or when I was my dad’s medical point person.) Or in an emergency, to be able to call 911 right away. Or even to find a friend I’m supposed to meet in a crowded mall. I made sure my 94 yr old mom carries her cell with her — she still drives and is in good health. But if her car stalls out or she needs help, good to know she can get a hold of me asap.
I went for a haircut yesterday, and just watched the zombies going by the plate glass window. They all managed to walk while staring at screens. Perhaps random bollards on the sidewalk would cure it?
“Perhaps random bollards on the sidewalk would cure it?”
Maybe, but that would be miserable for handicapped people to navigate with canes, crutches or wheelchairs.
Maybe, just perhaps, not everyone wants to live your life.
Did she worry 30 years ago when it was just landline?
Are you 100% sure that TV’s don’t have back screen cameras installed, and mics?
No one can be sure unless they tear open their TV to inspect it. I’ll wait for someone else to do that.
Do you really *need* that series of devices with you 24/7?
Your tv, if fairly recent, already has that function.
Results should be explosive.
Ai has become more popular than Elvis !!!
What are we supposed to do? The gov already forces its way into our devices and this AI trash will be able to pick us out at a moment’s notice. Oracle’s CEO said citizens would “be on their best behavior”. They won’t be counting on police to enforce this. It sounds like they’re going to implement a social credit score, in which case going off grid will not be allowable.
People who only wanted to be left alone and with nothing left to lose are dangerous. Depersoning large numbers of people will only give them common cause.
Another Pandora’s Box within Pandora’s Box. Buckle up.
Will this be warp speed like the covid ‘vaccine’ ?
We can only hope it’s just as ineffective. Interesting the ACLU hasn’t gotten mad about this. They’re curiously useless when it comes to actual issues.
Bingo. The Dems only attack what they don’t control (e.g., Trump and Supreme Court).
As much as I don’t like it because AI will result in the masses losing their ability to think even more than they already have, there’s a certain kind of inevitability.
When the US learned of nuclear bomb development by Germany in WW2, we got ahead of it… partly by capturing their scientists as I understand it. “We’ve got our own Germans!” propelled US advancement in two critical weapons areas — the explosive and the delivery system. We don’t like what nuclear war is and can be, but if we aren’t in control of it, then someone else will be in control of US.
AI is a similar beast in this regard. I hate it. I think it’s evil. But if we aren’t controlling it, then it will be controlling US.
Actually, it’s because our scientists were better than theirs, especially at math.
I love the “well actually” people. You’re great really. But we know the history. We captured German scientists and put them to work on all kinds of things. It’s not a secret. And Oppenheimer didn’t do it alone.
Well actually, the emigres who contributed to the Manhattan Project – Bethe, Fermi, Szilard, Teller, and so on – voluntarily left Europe before World War 2 to escape the rise of Nazi Germany. After the war, captured German scientists made major contributions to US missile and other programs.
Danke.
Bitte!
Imagine for a moment. You’re born and raised among a people and all these things are going on. What would it take for you to want to LEAVE HOME to share your knowledge with a completely foreign country who speaks a completely different language?
You pretend this is reasonable behavior? It actually takes some pretty strong conditions to make someone defect from the the friends and family. And do you imagine it’s because “The Americans have always been the ‘GOOD GUYS’ and the world knows it? That has never actually been true. The Americans have always been the guys you want on your side but that doesn’t mean we’ve ever actually been “the Good Guys.”
They were hired or persuaded or even recruited but it’s not natural human behavior to decide “I think this is so important, I need to go to a foreign country and give it to them.” Put yourself into a reality where that makes sense. I know our patriotic self-image makes us want to believe this… that it was voluntary. Do you think the German government of the day “volunteered” to allow them to leave??
Think like you’re in the real world… the past was just as real then as it is today. It’s complicated and it’s murky and governments can’t help themselves when it comes to corruption and dirty deeds.
It wasn’t voluntary. Something made it a requirement.
I don’t think I claimed that we were the ‘good guys.’ Each individual who left Europe presumably made a conscious decision that leaving their homeland for the US was less risky than staying, a decision that seems rational even if the US was or is a flawed nation. That said, I’m glad that we developed the atomic bomb before the Axis powers did, as otherwise my Army father would likely have participated in the invasion of the Japanese home islands, with small odds of returning home alive.
There might have been a loose or well-organized effort to recruit these scientists to the US, but the credit probably goes to the academics already here to recognize the remarkable talent of these individuals and the risks that they faced by staying in Europe.
One lesson from the Manhattan Project that can inform the risks of an analogous AI project is that it will inevitably bring considerable likelihood of infiltration and espionage. For example, the German physicist and communist Klaus Fuchs was a spy that provided the Soviet Union with critical information on the US A-bomb program during his work in the Manhattan Project. We can presumably agree that the likelihood of such a surreptitious tech transfer is yet another reason to look upon this AI effort very critically.
Often the better guys. Not sure that is justification enough for much of our history.
Werner Von Braun, basically “the” guy for Mercury/Gemini/Apollo negotiated with several allied powers before deciding to be “captured” by US soldiers – as WWII ended.
Similar narrative for Japanese specialists in biowarfare as the Pacific War ended.
Yes. Ellison has even mentioned boutique development of mRNA vaccines to treat the specific disease attributes of specific individuals. As Daniel & Smitty point out, it’s already here & ready to deploy exactly like the Covid “vaccines” were ready for deployment once Covid was introduced to provide the hosts.
They haven’t even figured out a way to make the delivery system alone non-death inducing.
Follow on effects, they don’t have a clue; can anyone imagine the downstream consequences of a cancer patient shedding mRNA designed exclusively to address their illness, but very likely provoking much worse in others?
The hackable animal can kill itself, but will never understand itself well enough to improve itself.
It takes only a couple of bright minds to evolutionize technology.
[And yes as shown by DeepSeek these minds are not all in the USA..]
But I suppose it takes a lot of mediocre minds in a US government sponsored lab to think of the worst possible applications for the technology. Similar to how they thought of the worst possible application for splitting the atom.
Can we be expecting such wonderful things as optimal deathly pathogens research, massive surveillance etc.
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Does it make a difference it foreign governments are doing it, if private tech companies are doing it, or if the U.S. government is doing it?
.
Doing immoral and illegal / banned things because allegedly others are “doing it” is an apprehensible excuse.
Then you get into such things as “I might as well steal all your stuff because others would steal it if I wouldnt”
That’s anarchy.
“Doing immoral and illegal / banned things because allegedly others are “doing it” is an apprehensible excuse.”
TRUTH!
.
??? Developing AI is not immoral, illegal, or banned.
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Not the full picture.
Basic science is one thing. Understanding areas where it can be applied is another.
Transitioning it to industrialized uses is a completely different, formidable problem.
Aside from all the social control and legal issues raised by Sundance, there is another aspect to “National Labs” that is a major weakness in this approach.
I and anybody else doing development work with a US Government linked entity have experienced since about 2010.
Prior to 2010, there were never any serious issues regarding the honoring of “Proprietary Rights” and “Free use” of items developed jointly with a Government Entity. Companies made allot of money reusing jointly developed items and the Government did a pretty good job of NOT SHARING ones jointly developed Items with other commercial or international entities.
After 2010, this was NOT the case.
The DoD opened Government Run I/T and Software Development and Integration “Factories” and/or “Centers”, which were “supported” by spin off’s of one of the major US Tech Companies. The cost of doing business with these entities was loss proprietary rights and the the Entity Granted Rights to give your work to a competitor for FREE (NO LICENSE and NO LIMITED USE RIGHTS).
Congress rewrote Federal Procurement laws removing most Proprietary rights.
The other “Traditional” Government Linked Labs and even DARPA followed this model, as well.
The US Government actually caused the utter lack of and major obstacle to, the integration of Technological Advancement by any Government Agency you want to name. it is the reason for so much “outsourcing” of Government Functions to BIG TECH. The Government shot itself in the foot.
So now it comes down to how the legal agreements are structured v/v this NEW AI LAB. The Companies of the Big Tech Barons and US Government could actually ending up robbing everybody who comes to play in the lab.
So, besides wanting control of the people subject to the AI products … there are also $$$TRILLIONS at Stake.
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So this is a “who funds it” or “who makes money off of it” issue? Or “who controls it” issue? Or a combination?
If Big Tech does this on its own, doesn’t that mean there’s no public control at all? Are these Big Tech barons, as you say, unable to do stuff on their own without the government’s and smaller companies contributiong? Or am I misunderstanding?
.
Nope … High Tech will not be funding this all on their own Nickel. It will be “shared” and we know which side will be dumping in the most money … the Tax payer…and which side will walk away holding the money making products.
Elon Musk’s history is taking US Tax Dollars and then walking away with the end Products, in all he has done … EV Cars, green energy, batteries, alternate energy sources, Space, et al.
The Ultimate High IQ Grifter.
That is the way he operates.
.
Okay. Got it. This is an addressable albeit different problem.
.
My first thought was “That’s how the obscured the pipe bombers eyes so he couldn’t be identified. ”
They aren’t coming for us. They already have us in the corral, most people just don’t know it yet.
Microsoft wants us to all have AI which “sees what we see and hears what we hear”. No thanks! Americans don’t need an AI reporting them for thought crimes. No iPhone 16 for me. Ditto for Microsoft co-pilot.
Old tech is going to be worth a fortune soon!
The cia wants to focus this computational power outward, but inevitably it will go inward, to the point where authorities can simply enter your name or social and know where you are by which camera you passed last. We’re about 15-20 years away from that.
I have rather less confidence in the CIA.
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Are you carrying a cell phone?
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The system you describe already exists… Exhibit 8,040: Epstein Client List.
One is a matter of will, the other a matter of way.
I have to think through the design and development of a National Laboratory. But organizationally, if a laboratory is created, it should NOT be within the intel community.
Just a clever means to enslave the lesser kind, meaning us, morlocks, faster. AI mania. Skynet, musknet etc. pandora’s box was opened and AI jumped out.🥹😳🤨
Morlocks were the predators.
Eloi the prey.
Let the games begin….
So instead of dismantling this 4th branch of goverment, we are doubling down in hopes to control it? Ok…maybe I sort of understand because the genie is out of the bottle and you can’t hold back the ocean. Why would our elected reprentatives allow the 702-Fisa only if it would not be used on them? Is the whole damn place infiltated with non Americans? Why aren’t any of our representatives creating laws to protect our privacy? Why aren’t the courts upholding our Consitution? Is there no push back at all???? Just full steam ahead???
Come Lord Jesus!
The Chinese AI is censoring information. Read this guys account:
It’s not just the Chinese AI doing this.
The US based AI’s are doing it too.
In essence, the AI’s are being politically “Wikipedia’d”. All info had a decidedly leftist slant in context and nuance.
What’s interesting is when you run it locally, no censorship occurs and you actually get results that look like the truth. This little “truth bomb” will aid and breaking down the trust issues with US government AI.
But the secret sauce of this “AI” is that it pulls processed data from other AI services. It’s like setting up a “search engine” that samples google and yahoo and whatever else and processes those results to deliver. The point is the heavy computational portions of AI are still being done by the expensive AI systems — this deep seek doesn’t have that power and just pulls already processed results and then (the chinese online version) filters. The “DIY” version has no such filter.
Why do I find this deeply disturbing?
You’re not the only one.
Just wait until the next demonrat gets in the WH.
Just the democrats eh?
Silly you.
Yeah. This is deeply and profoundly unsettling.
Picture an automated Clarence that can immediately George Bailey you, on its own volition, should you intentionally or even accidentally hit any of its pre-programmed trip wires. I suppose the argument is that this AI phenomenon is coming regardless of whether we like it or participate in it, so we might as well get out in front of it. Along that line, one might make an argument for subversive participation. Hijack it? I’ll just leave it at that.
A comment from the mud along the ditch outside the glittering city wall.
They (gubmint) are going to do what they are going to do. The genie is out of the bottle. The best we can hope for is honest people with morals in charge. Until we get secure elections that is a tall order.
I’m not giving up or giving in. I’m just not pretending. If we get secure elections and can get people elected that defend the Constitution we can fix this but until then we will continue to get politicians that are selected and part of the Uniparty bird.
Until then, accept the fact we already live in a surveillance state (you have a phone don’t you) and take SD’s advice and live your best life. For me that means devoting every day to following my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and obeying his commandments. Everything else really isn’t that important and will sort itself out. God wins in the end and my goal is to be in the book of life.
As a side note I got a questionnaire from the RNC asking me to rank the top issues that concern me as a voter. Out of twenty one choices not one was for securing the vote. It isn’t even on their radar. What does that tell you? I sent it back and wrote in big red letters across the entire survey, “Secure our elections, paper ballots, one day voting.”
Watching the discussion here on CTH about AI reminds me of a mistake that I believe I and other conservatives made in regards to public education. Here is what I mean: In the 90’s my wife and I saw influences in public education to which we did not want our children exposed. So we homeschooled them – all the way through to Associates Degrees. We were part of a movement. If I had it to do over again; I would still homeschool, but I would also attend school board meetings, run for the school board, etc. The problem is that we conservatives withdrew our children AND our influence. The withdrawal of our influence was a mistake.
My point is this: AI is not going away. Our we going to allow it to evolve further without our influence?
What to do:
Make your voice heard regarding figuring out the nexus between powerful AI tools and robust 4th amendment protections. I do not believe they are mutually exclusive.Learn everything you can about AI. Subscribe to a paid version of Chat GPT or Microsoft Co-Pilot, use it and develop some working knowledge of it’s benefits.Protect your family from the use of AI tools in fraud. Remove videos from your Facebook or Instagram feed that have your children or grandchildrens voices included in audio form. Teach your children and grandchildren to use a password to identify themself if they are calling and requesting money.Start a blog and write about your views of liberty, constitutional norms, ethics and the value of judeo christian principles in western civilization. Add your thoughts to the corpus of the Internet so that they too are studied by LLM’s.
Sundance’s warnings are valuable only if we do something with them. Wishing that AI would just go away is not a strategy.
Your ideas on what to do are simple and actionable.
I have thought for a long time that the structure of corporate life since late 1980s-early 1990s to support “shareholder value” was the main driver of citizen disengaging from local concerns. Your comment adds a dimension I hadn’t considered.
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Good points, good ideas, thank you.
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Superb answer!
Honestly? I think there could be a real market for a sort of use AI to counter the invasive AI.
Imagine having an AI that basically exists solely to scour the internet to minimize your digital footprint. One AI system is seeking, but yours is tuned to hiding.
On a related note, the best way to curtail AI is make it uncomfortable for the people who want it.
Imagine some White Hat using AI to expose all of the bureaucrats’ personal expenses and associates?
How about AI cameras in every government office monitoring them for efficiency and service to the public. Require 24/7 AI monitoring if you’re a government employee. Throw their “if you’ve nothing to hide you shouldn’t be concerned” back at them.
Heck, aren’t they PUBLIC servants, shouldn’t the people be able to monitor their employees? If you want privacy then stay out of government jobs.
Stigmatize the idea that a public employee should be able to opt out. Make the distinction between Public and Private jobs since the majority of bad actors would be seeking government money and power, that’s where AI surveillance, if it is to happen, is most needed to protect the Public Trust.
Tell folk AI is racist.
Get out of the city first though . . .
Absolutely. It is a tool and tools can be used for good or evil. Just like a gun can shoot a criminal with a gun, so too AI in the hands of freedom loving people can do much to push back against tyrants.
AI or not. I think true privacy is lost unless you are a hermit.
Is it possible to steal ones soul?
To collect so much data on a person as to predict how a person will react or think?
Un plugged taking on a whole new priority?
To create a model universe where models of us interact to predict our moves?
Can you imagine waking up to proof you are only a simulation?
“Veritas: Test Of Shadows.”
My prediction is thus: There will ‘not’ be any person who will not be subject. Oh yes, they will try but it will be used against even those in gray areas. As AI progresses, humans will become the hunted per the premise nothing is ever totally under control except by the Almighty and he’ll stay out of it until….
Some “control”… revisit History. lol
Saw this in a list of videos on youtube, haven’t watched yet – but, this is interesting. There appears to be a working group on the State to State level looking for public feedback on the use of Artificial Intelligence in State agencies.
It may be we will need to see if we can have impact in the extreme federalism angle, i.e. do it local and that will force the upstream of State then federal to incorporate what the local voices accept?
Here’s the video that streamed yesterday. Thoughts? Is this the avenue we’ve been hoping for in order to put the proper leashes on this AI stuff? 1 hr. 54 min. Haven’t watched it yet, am assuming it will be dry wonkishness, but it may provide a key forward.
In my opinion, the most important “right” to hang on to is the use of cold hard cash for any and all transactions. That is your only way to purchase goods and services without the tracking mechanisms. You should be able to pay your property taxes, or any other tax via CASH. Make sure that right stays firmly intact.
It should be made downright illegal for the government to impose electronic transactions (like they already do with Social Security). One should be able to go to a bank pick up their Social Security in CASH if they want. It should be illegal for banking institutions to restrict cash withdrawals of any size. They should not be allowed to “put a hold” on anyone’s money. The banks should have the cash available at all times. Yeah, I know that wrecks their “float” interest etc. Employees should be able to get paid in cash if they desire. I know there’s more to it than that…
The point is that buying and selling should be an unrestricted activity, otherwise we are in Revelations. Just sayin’.
If you can operate in cash, the government has less control. You can opt out of the electronic system, and thereby elect out of the surveillance state.
There were many people in Brazil that did just that – hung on to cold hard Brazilian cash; some even had trunks of cash.
When Brazil officially changed its currency to the one now used, it gave citizens a limited amount of time to turn in the old style currency for the newly minted one – and also limited the amount of old currency could be exchanged to something equivalent to $20,000 USD. And it was a very short clock, or time, established to complete the switch over. Something like 90 days.
All of the old Brazilian currency instantly became worthless once the clock ran out.
Might want to turn some of that cold hard cash into silver and/or gold coins – just in case. Or even real silver and gold jewelry pieces which can be melted down if need be.
Executive Order 6102 by FDR – anyone ?
👆For clarity. Forbidding the hoarding of gold coins etc.
The Government tried confiscate silver too, but had no way to store massive amounts of silver coins.
Good British movie called “Millions” which came out in 2004. Backdrop of the movie is the deadline for switching to Euro. Well acted by a lad named Alex Etel.
Biden handed China the AI Keys in an attempt for his adminsitration to control it.
American AI companies are feeling the heat over the past month.
China is catching up. In some areas, they are even surpassing the U.S. in artificial intelligence. It may seem hard to believe, but it’s true.
Chinese companies DeepSeek and ByteDance recently released models which are on par with the best models from top U.S. companies OpenAI, Google, and Anthropic.
On a personal note, it never ceases to amaze me how willing most Americans are to give the Chinese their information. DNA from Covid tests, video and search results from TikTok and Deepseek.
https://dailyreckoning.com/biden-handed-china-the-ai-keys/
History tells us…
Going back to the development of the Atomic Bomb and all other “secret” Gubmint activities…
Rogue countries will seek personnel working on these projects and will get our secrets through money, sex, favors etc for the “best in class” AI systems…this is classified as treason and this needs to be articulated that the death penalty will be involved for this activity.
The politicians themselves are too soft for the death penalty.
Let’s test that theory.
And what shall they name it? Skynet?
Already named it Stargate.
All this panic about AI is because Somebody just realized Russia and China are far ahead of us in AI development.
Panic has set in because we are so far behind the curve.
Back in 2017 Putin said:
Artificial intelligence is the future, not only for Russia, but for all humankind. It comes with colossal opportunities, but also threats that are difficult to predict. Whoever becomes the leader in this sphere will become the ruler of the world,”
Unlike American leaders. When Putin says something he means it.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/28/openai-launches-chatgpt-gov-for-us-government-agencies.html?&qsearchterm=chatgpt%20gov
President Regan brought down the Soviet Union with a concept “Star Wars Lazer weapons”. The Soviets basically bankrupted their people by spending money to develop their own version.
Giving 5oo billion to a spy agency with no accountability in any form is frightening. Once that budget account is open it will never stop and definitely never go down.
“Danger Will Robinson”
The Soviet Union fell, but the Russian’s took President Reagan’s words very seriously. They have gone on to develop and deploy. The advanced weapon systems that President Reagan could only talk about with a Twinkle in his eye.
First and foremost artificial intelligence is just a name, there is a lot more to intelligence than a feedback loop. I know these systems/algorithms are more complicated than the thermostat in my house but in essence the same thing. Can and should we build fully automated production facilities, of course. AI so called, will never make a new discovery in some field of science or even less understand the beauty in Gods universe, specifically the sacrificial nature of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Second, one thing never discussed is the necessity to recuse most people alive today from their addiction to computer technology. If used properly computer technology is perfectly safe and useful. However the fact that these tech companies have a market valuation that they do just proves that as a society we are drunk on the punch. Facebook, instagram TikTok all worthless in any real sense of economic reality. We have to break peoples addiction to social media and other wastes of time called scrolling. Break this subservience and you will crush this myth of AI.
Interesting…
The Manhattan Project, I read once, took up ten percent
of the entire Nation’s electric output.
Don’t understand why anyone is concerned about this.
Trump is behind it. Isn’t that all we need to know?
If you have concerns about this, what will you think when the next plandemic hits? Major war with The Bill of Rights cancelled “due to wartime necessity”?
Maybe you have something to hide? A concern about AI used for surveillance fusion and profiling implies guilt, according to many.
The AI is needed to support Trump when those “temporary circumstances” force our Lion to look out for our greater good by “temporary” restrictions on liberty. Right?
And to fight fake news:
https://x.com/RapidResponse47/status/1883991501015011716
It’s ok if the Trump regime labels disinformation, but not ok if the left does it, right?
Am I missing something?
Methinks no one is picking up on the sarcasm.
The question is:
Should acceptability of infringement of liberty be based upon who is infringing?
every last psychopath on earth will be lusting to get control and access to this.
there is no question that this will be abused. the question is how long humanity will put up with the abuse before doing something about it.
To whom do I direct a 1A petition to my government when my government is an all-knowing machine making decisions on my life?
To whom do the courts make discovery demands when a machine has been taught to hide and obscure?
To whom can you appeal when the AI considers itself infallible?
It’s quite possibly the end of the beginning, or slightly later.
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What is the solution. Let China develop it? Let private tech just go hogwild on its own (as it’s doing right now) and then implement it when the next jackass comes into power?
I’m not hearing any details.
“Within this matrix of categorized Americans there will be those who are not subjected to the surveillance, their constitutional rights will be protected, and they will be afforded all benefit of personage. However, there will be lower classes who are continual targets…”
May we have some evidence? (Would it be more okay if “everyone” were subject to surveillance?)
Who would be these people? Law enforcement? Politicians? Those who, like judges, don’t have their home addresses currently posted on government real property websites? Or are celebrities somehow magically not going to have their cell phone information “out there” or their pictures taken while they’re walking through a public venue or driving through a toll plaza? Is this merely about TSA because some people can fly on their own private (and monitored) jets? Vague…
You don’t want the government to know where you are at any given time… are you carrying a cell phone right now? Driving a late-model car?
You don’t want the government to be able to compile all kinds of data on you… done any electronic banking lately? Filed your taxes electronically? Written on social media? Signed into a medical provider or made an insurance claim or shopped via the internet? This ship has sailed. Where were the complaints in favor of maintaining pay phones, landlines, snailmail, strictly mechanical vehicles…
Re released J6 imagery clouding out some faces… was this done before (automatically) or after-the-fact?
Hysteria doesn’t prevent or solve problems. I keep asking for details and suggestions because I’m ready, willing, and able to write and lobby proposed legislation. A couple people tried but so far I’ve got virtually nothing useful.
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Tant pis.
Congress reauthorized FISA-702 only after ensuring the warrantless database searches could not be used against any member of congress or their staff.
This is so backasswards. We elected them, POTUS should be able to use FISA-702 to keep them honest.
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They are NOT “exempt” BUT because they are expected to have periodic contact with foreign government officials, and because of the political juiciness of being able to abuse searches for that reason, Gang-of-Eight has to be notified first unless there is a national security threat (yeah I know) by doing so.
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LOL. They can’t ensure that. If a system which can’t be trusted exists, no “law” is going to make it trustworthy without teeth. Whatever provision they added to exempt themselves can’t possibly work because the 6-ways-from-sunday people WILL do it and WILL use it against legislators as they always have.
New Open Source DeepSeek V3 Language Model Making Waves
27 Jan 2025
https://hackaday.com/2025/01/27/new-open-source-deepseek-v3-language-model-making-waves/#comments
If you’ve had the opportunity to work extensively with R1 since its release, as I have, you’d quickly discover that it wasn’t trained from scratch. Instead, it’s derived directly from other open-source models or from synthetic data generated by these models. While R1 might not represent the technical breakthrough some claim it to be, its real impact lies in the realm of accessibility, allowing individuals to self-host sophisticated AI intelligence on their personal hardware.
[snip]
The true game-changer in AI development will emerge when we achieve full integration of chain of thought reasoning with multi-sensory introspection, alongside infinite context capabilities. If significant funding is allocated, this could be realized this year by leveraging optical computing—a field where the research is already promising but requires engineering integration. This could usher in a new era of AI that’s not only more powerful but also more energy-efficient and quicker in processing complex tasks. [that may be what the “Manhattan Project” is aimed at – W]
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On the panic that the most powerful AI ICs (chips) which come from US companies will lose sales. A more efficient AI will still use the most powerful chips and will simply be more effective using the same number of them.
“Jevons paradox. When you improve the efficiency of a system, it becomes more popular and therefore uses more than before.”
“The Jevons Paradox is the observation that as technological improvements increase the efficiency of resource use, the overall consumption of that resource may actually increase rather than decrease. This occurs because lower costs associated with efficient use can lead to higher demand and usage.”
“Right. this increase in efficiency will sharply increase demand for chips, electricity, etc.”
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An ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING scifi classic from 1970 which, unlike other scifi classics, is very hard to find online for some possibly obvious reason:
Another ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING scifi classic [NOT the remake] from 1971 which shows the ONLY kind of place biolabs should be located (and I’m serious):
You beat me to it! I should have refreshed the screen before posting
The fact is… AI is here to stay. The Genie is out of the bottle. It will be anywhere in the world.
Is it better if it is somewhere we can somewhat follow and “control”.
Thank everything holy my decades on this beautiful earth are limited.
Will our AI Avatars be allowed to die?
It seems we don’t really have a say in this. Leaving the question: will we be eliminated in the initial blast or to the radiation later on?