[Now we must focus on the very important chairmanships of the senate committees that John Thune will decide.]
In the first ballot the results were: Thune 23, Cornyn 15, Scott 13.
Scott was removed and the Senators went to the second ballot between Thune and Cornyn.
As expected, the Scott coalition split 50/50. Thune picked up 6 votes from Scott’s group. Cornyn picked up 7 votes from Scott’s group.
Final Vote: John Thune 29, John Cornyn 24.
It was always going to be this way. Remember, the Senate is a silo -by design- isolated from influence of the American public.
If we want to change the dynamic, we must repeal the 17th amendment and return to the original constitutional construct: Senators appointed to represent the interests of each state, by State Legislature.
The Senate was designed to represent the interests of the State, not ‘the people’; that’s the job of the House of Representatives.
Machiavelli said, “It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institution and merely lukewarm defenders in those who gain by the new ones.” A prescient and oft repeated quote that is pertinent to the situation.
When our founders created the system of government for our constitutional republic, they built in layers of protection from federal control over the lives of people in the states. Over time those protections have been eroded as the federal bureaucracy has seized power. One of the biggest changes that led to the creation of the permanent political class was the 17th amendment.
Our founders created a system where Senators were appointed by the state legislatures. In this original system the senate was bound by obligation to look out for the best interests of their specific states. Under the ‘advise and consent‘ rules of Senate confirmation for executive branch appointments, the intent was to ensure the presidential appointee -who would now carry out regulatory activity- would not undermine the independent position of the states.
The nucleus of corruption amid every element of the federal institutions of government is the United States Senate. The U.S. Senate, also known as the “upper chamber,” is the single most powerful elected element in modern federal government.
The Intelligence Branch is the most powerful branch of government. However, the U.S. Senate is the most powerful assembly of federally elected officials. We pretend the IC branch doesn’t exist; that’s part of our problem. At least we admit the Senate exists.
All other elected federal corruption is dependent on a corrupt and ineffective Senate. If we correct the problems with the Senate and reconnect the representation within the chamber to the state-level legislative bodies, we will then see immediate change. However, there would be ZERO institutional allies in this effort.
When the 17th amendment (direct voting for Senators) took the place of state appointments, the perspective of ‘advise and consent’ changed. The senate was now in the position of ensuring the presidential appointee did not undermine the power of the permanent bureaucracy, which is the root of power for the upper chamber.
Senate committees, Homeland Security, Judiciary, Intelligence, Armed Services, Foreign Relations, etc. now consists of members who carry an imbalanced level of power within government.
The senate now controls who will be in charge of executive branch agencies like the DOJ, DHS, FBI, CIA, ODNI, DoD, State Dept and NSA, from the position of their own power and control in Washington DC.
In essence, the 17th amendment flipped the intent of the constitution from protecting the individual states to protecting the federal government.
Almost every source of federal issue: ex. spending, intervention and foreign assistance, conflict with the states, burdensome regulation, surveillance and spying on American citizens, the two-tiered justice system and the erosion of liberty & individual rights (see COVID examples), can be sourced back to the problem created by the 17th amendment.
Because of the scale of their power, the Senate will not give up control easily; and every institution of society and government will actively work to block/stop We The People from taking back control of the upper chamber. Every entity from Wall Street to multinational corporations, big tech, banks, foreign governments and world organizations would align against us. When you truly understand the epicenter of the corruption, then you are able to see the tentacles extending from it.
It would be easy to say “repeal the 17th amendment;“ it is ‘another kettle of fish’ entirely to walk through the process to make that happen. Yes, ultimately, we do need a full repeal of the 17th amendment and return the selection of the senators from each state with a nomination and appointment process within the state legislature. [Common Explainer Here]
Seventeenth Amendment- “The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote. The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.
When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct.” (link)
Prior to the 17th amendment, there was significant state level corruption as business interests and senate candidates worked in power groups with party officials to attain the position. Politicians seeking Senate seats began campaigning for state legislative candidates in order to assemble support.
The state legislative races then became a process of influence amid powerful interests seeking to support their Senate candidate. Get the right people in the State legislature and you can get the Senator appointed.
Those state-level entities, bankers, wealthy people of influence, later became the permanent K-Street lobbying groups once the 17th amendment was ratified. In essence, they just shifted the location of their influence operation from the state to an office in Washington DC. [Those same power groups, albeit much larger, now write the physical legislation we see in congress.] Additionally, prior to the 17th amendment, there were issues of vacancies in federal senate seats as state legislatures could not agree on an individual Senator.
The biggest issue following the passage of the 17th amendment became Senators who were no longer representing the interests of their state. Instead, they were representing the interests of the power elite groups who were helping them fund the mechanisms of their re-election efforts.
A Senator only needs to run for re-election every six years. The 17th amendment is the only amendment that changed the structure of the congress as it was written by the founders.
Over time, the Senate chamber itself began using their advice and consent authority to control the executive and judicial branch. The origination of a nomination now holds the question: “Can this person pass the Senate confirmation process?” The Senate now abuses this power to ensure no one challenges them. Additionally, the Senate began using their oversight capacity to control elements within the executive branch and judicial branch. The full scope of that issue in modern form is OUTLINED HERE – which is the cornerstone of the Intelligence Branch of Government.
If we can repeal the 17th amendment and return the selection to the state legislature, you can see where the background work of Tactical Civics and Extreme Federalism begin to take on importance. [NOTE: Within the repeal effort we would need to include a recall process for states to reach out and yank back their Senator if they go astray; the ability to recall was missing in the original construct of the framers; it would need to be added.]
◊ PATH ONE is the expressed primary platform of a presidential candidate…. a visible and emphasized mandate that includes: “vote me into office and you are voting to repeal the 17th amendment “.
This specific election issue would need to be the #1 priority of the candidate and spoken at every event.
◊ PATH TWO is the parallel path built along with the election platform path and put into place in the event that Congress refused to accept the mandate.
Obviously, this would be an ugly battle. The second path is a convention of states in the first year of the new President’s second term in office.
The ‘convention of states‘ would be detailed, strategically planned, and the future schedule determined during the GOP convention preceding the November election (assuming the right candidate wins). That way, if congress refuses to act on their own, within say the first 100 days of the new administration, the state legislatures will then assemble a convention for the singular and limited purpose of one action item: “repeal the 17th amendment “. That’s it. Full Stop. Nothing more. Nothing else entertained.
There is a lot more to this, and a lot more to cover in discussion of this. However, this is the path that can resolve most of the issues we face with an out-of-control federal government. The shift in power would kneecap the Intelligence Branch of Government by re-instituting genuine oversight and control. A repeal of the 17th amendment stops Senators from campaigning, needing to raise money and puts them directly into the accountability position as a steward for the interests of their state.
The people within each state would then have a mechanism to address any negative federal action by contacting their state legislative representative. In a worst-case scenario, a rogue Senator could be removed within days if they support any federal legislative activity that is not in alignment with the state interest. This approach also wipes out most of the power amid the Senate Majority Leader, as he/she could also be recalled by the state and would be less likely to work against the interests of the majority in the chamber.
The House of Representatives was created to be the voice of the people, ie, “The Peoples’ House.” However, the U.S. Senate was structurally created to be the place where state government had representation in the federal government decision-making. The 17th amendment completely removed state representation, and we have been in an escalating battle over state’s rights ever since.
Overlay that DC structural issue with the fact that almost all of the bureaucracy created by this skewed DC system is now in place to defend itself from any outside effort to change it, and you get this UniParty problem that Donald Trump fully exposed.
Repeal the 17th amendment and we would see the most significant restoration of freedom, liberty and social balance in our lifetime.
One of the more challenging facets to awakening the general public on the scale of corruption within Washington DC is the need for people to drop party designations.
This is never truer than within the U.S. Senate where the mistaken “us -vs- them” perspective remains a pesky hurdle.
The blue team and red team are mirror images of themselves. They are not opposites, they are mirrored – a big difference.
The policy objective is the same, the business model within DC (K Street) benefits the upper chamber the most.
Within this dynamic Mitch McConnell is the mirror image of Chuck Schumer. Mitch has been grooming his replacement for a long time; that replacement is John Thune. Senator Thune is in a position that demands stealth. Ideologically, think of John Thune as the mirror image of Gavin Newsom. They are not opposites, they are mirrored – a big difference.
The system of affluence and influence has been created to self-sustain regardless of party affiliation. The Senate is one club with one ideological perspective. Within that club rule #1 dominates: none of the members will ever expose another member. So, when there is corrupt activity within the Senate no-one from within the institution will expose another. This is the code of Omerta within the upper chamber. This is the way of the “my good friend” Senate and how it operates.
The Senate is a silo.
Now we fall back to watch the super important Committee Chairmanships that John Thune will decide!
I have a (probably) stupid question. Can states pass state-level requirements that would allow them to recall a senator who wasn’t serving the best interests of the state? Or is that not possible because of the constitution? I’m unclear on where the line between what the state can control and not control might be in this case.
https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/RL30016.pdf
The 17th Amendment to the Constitution was a horrible mistake. The Founding Fathers were incredibly smart, and the 17th amendment negated their intent.
There was a lot of corruption, but there still is!
SCOTUS ruled that US reps and senators can’t be recalled by their states.
Do you call the basis for that particular SCOTUS ruling or what case and year it was?
No, I can’t recall the case or year.
What I do remember is that they said the House or the Senate are national bodies and once a person has been elected to that national body, a single state can’t remove them.
Something along those lines.
https://www.thoughtco.com/can-members-of-congress-be-recalled-3368240
Thank you
Yes, thanks. Very useful article.
It says that 19 states have recall provisions but not for federal officeholders.
And by the way, it was Clarence Thomas in 1992 who was on board with this law. His words are in the article.
And actually I do, for a change, find his reasoning faulty. The flaw I see is that he says elections are permanent and the will of the people, so recall is not Constitutional.
Then why, if elections are permanent, are state legislatures allowed to recall lower officeholders such as their governors (and clearly they do)? Shouldn’t it be the same Constitutional principle for both state and federal ones?
It was a lot clearer before the 17th amendment was added! In my humble opinion and of course I am no lawyer.
Not stupid at all. I’ve been wondering the same thing.
Nope, no mechanism in the Constitution allows a state to recall a Senator.
Check out the 10th Amendment to get the intended outlook.
Was there a mechanism (clause) in the Constitution whereby the States voluntarily agreed not to recall Senators??
So much for 5D chess…
I read that … Tulsi is being considered for DNI.
agree, there’s too much wishful thinking out there and its tempting to try to contort reality to find some angle for what Trump ‘is really doing’. it just is what it is. he’s not going to make every decision to obtain maximum impact for destruction of corrupt govt system. there are many other influences at work and sometimes he is subject to them imo.
i cant get caught up in Q type thinking of 4d chess maneuvers, while really we’re probably just heading for a scenario in 5 or 10 or 15 months where Trump is on truthsocial every day complaining about a couple of his own cabinet appointments. he’s going to probably roll through a bunch of them in 4 years and while they’re in office (some of them) will sabotage and drag their feet as much as possible. it sucks but in my view it’s the non-pretending take on the situation
He is overly impressed with talkative people or generals with a lot of medals.
More like tiddly winks. 🙄
It’s laughable and sad the way they have strung us all along… again.
So done with the whole sorry lot!
If John Thune doesn’t support the president’s agenda, he risks losing trust, causing political chaos, and halting national progress.
This could damage his reputation and career, and weaken his leadership.
It’s crucial he stays on mission!
… and Thune risks losing his job like Liz. Just checked – Thune isn’t up for re-election until 2028.😒
So he has no incentive to do anything different for the entirety of President Trump’s administration over these 4 years.
you’re exactly right!
I kept saying — Cornyn up fir re-election (with a possibility of Paxton or Lt Gov Patrick as opponent)
Gave President Trump a lot of Leverage …. But nobody would listen.
Scott could have thrown his votes to either one.
“he risks losing trust, causing political chaos, and halting national progress.” I doubt that is his motivation. As long at the US Chamber of Commerce is in play, we know where the control is. The only good thing is Tom Donohue is out of the picture.
I miss Lou
You think Thune cares?
Is anyone honestly surprised about the Senate picking one of its one to be majority leader? What did we honestly expect with 53 GOP Senators, and less than ten who are worth the slightest damn?
Here’s another spoiler: the House will disappoint.
Best that can be hoped for is confirmation of Trump’s picks and a couple new USSC justices that get through.
The QB is going to have to take the rest and that’s what has always been expected. We destroyed the legislative branch long ago by putting so much power with the executive.
–S. Keshel
This should be illegal. The new congress should elect its leader, not the old one.
Of course they will disappoint! Funny how if they have to do good for the American people, they don’t, but if it’s against the American people it’s done very quickly!
If the dems had won majority in the house then they would have waited until they were sworn in on Jan 2025.
This came to a vote now because Mitch stepped down at this moment. He could have waited until Jan 2025 to do so but he did not.
Interesting…come to think of it…
Why isn’t there another Senate election after the new Senate is seated?
We destroyed the legislative branch long ago by putting so much power with the executive.
I disagree with Keshel on this.
It was destroyed by growth of power in the Blob bureaucracy, not the executive branch.
The Blob has done everything possible to whittle down and destroy the power of the executive!
They want every President to be their puppet, and appear to have succeeded in the modern era with all but Reagan and Trump (perhaps Nixon for a time too – going back and reviewing what happened there is edifying to those of us who lived through Watergate).
Actions speak louder than words.
The Senate has zero intentions of carrying out the agenda of the MAJORITY of the American people.
Just KNOW that. Even if it changes nothing you are doing right now.
The administrative state autocracy has multiple layers to defend itself.
The Trump administration surmounted the 1st line. Winning the electoral and popular vote is huge, but the GOP senate sees this as a bigger threat, not as a mandate to obey the “people”.
It isn’t the “Putin”, “China” or Muslim terrorists, we are the #1 enemy of our own government.
Is it possible that Trump’s people can accumulate classified dirt on Thune, to motivate him to do his job? That weapon is used to maintain the dictatorship, perhaps it can be used to unravel it?
Is it possible that Trump’s people can accumulate classified dirt on Thune, to motivate him to do his job? That weapon is used to maintain the dictatorship, perhaps it can be used to unravel it?
Great questions!
Epstein or Diddy list? Maybe who accessed the “slush” fund?? Make it public.
Just trying to find a shred of silver lining somewhere. Anywhere.
I was also thinking along these lines.
The Epstein tapes / little black book and the P Diddy tapes together represent a yuge can of worms for a lot of big shots….I wager.
I keep imagining a Senator or 2 being brought into the white office front office like little boys brought to the principal’s office for discipline.
“Here’s what we want. You deliver and the DOJ and FBI and other nasty govt agencies might not open up these tapes we have.
And YOU know we have them.
It’s a new game these days.
Play along, or you’re going down big time.
I don;t care about being re-elected. I can be the bad guy this time. I plan on golfing while you guys might MIGHT sit in the pen awaiting big Ben’s perverse pleasure.”
Just an idea.
You are correct, however they will try their best to make it look like they are on our side.
Hopefully Thune, along with a lot of senators, will be arrested and removed for crimes we don’t yet know about.
Oh! Make my day! But I’m not holding my breath!
I heard some interesting stuff from Alex Jones about that, when he was interviewed on Tucker’s road tour.
Dream on.
Old garbage replaced by new garbage. May his remaining days in congress be few. Release the Epstein little black book.
The biggest problem with repeal of the 17th amendment – which would be a good thing, ceterus paribus – is that the state legislatures are no longer constituted as they were when the Constitution was enacted, and as they were constituted up until the “one man, one vote” decisions did away with the state level balance between rural and urban interests. Repeal the 17th without changing that and you hand control of the senate to the large urban Democratic voting blocs.
Cato, please explain “the state level balance between rural and urban interests.” was there ever a time when rural interests had a say in government?
Back when it was written, and for a hundred or more years afterward. “Urban” is very different from what it meant two hundred years ago.
Before the early 1960s, state legislatures (except Nebraska’s unicameral legislature) were apportioned like Congress: state senate districts were geographic like the US senate, usually 1-2 per county, while state house districts were by population. Hence there was a balance between rural interests which dominated state senates and urban (large population) interests which dominated state houses. Therefore rural and urban interests had to compromise to get anything done at the state level, much as large states and small states have to compromise at the federal level because they have the same say in the US senate.
That changed after a series of decisions of the US Supreme Court in the early 1960s, especially Reynolds v. Sims and Mapp V. Ohio, which ultimately required states to apportion both houses of their legislatures by population under the ‘one man, one vote’ principle.
Unless those cases were overturned by Constitutional amendment, repealing the 17th Amendment would not substantially change large urban centers controlling whom each state sends to the US Senate.
Reynolds v. Sims was one of the “gifts” of the Warren court which did so much damage to the US.
Thank you!
It sounds as if the states had their own “electoral college,” in a way…
I continue to maintain that there is no “political science” degree that can equal what we can get here at the Treehouse if we pay attention.
And also that the brilliance of the Founders can never be matched.
I still recall seeing “Impeach Earl Warren” billboards on Southern highways in my youth
What would it take to unravel?
Probably would require being part of the Constitutional Amendment:
Remember when President Reagan would schedule an address to the nation, explain the importance of a bill and ask everyone listening to contact their reps and senator to pass xyz legislation? It was very effective.
President Trump won a resounding victory and can use the same tactic: go straight to the voters to make political life miserable in the court of public opinion for Thune and any other politician that hinders his agenda. He has the momentum and if any of them have higher political aspirations they might want to court his endorsement by doing as he asks and avoiding a very public backlash by the voters.
Right now President Trump has all of the leverage.
I agree. Trump should use the bully pulpit.
“Trump Fireside Chats” (TFC) like FDR. They were extremely effective for FDR.
I would recommend TFC be more official, from the WH- Oval Office or the Green Room, a lovely backdrop.
Talk directly to the people.
Major changes are coming. Explain WHY they are necessary. Keep Americans in the loop. It’s respectful to the people and will lessen stress and confusion.
It would also serve to circumvent the hostile dishonest MSM. It will keep Americans on PDJT’s side and add more Americans too.
Limit press conferences. During his 1st term the MSM were often rude to President Trump.
With TFC, it will be more difficult for the MSM to accuse/label Trump a dictator.
I also heard — and Don Jr said he liked the idea– of making Alex Jones Press Secretary, at least for a month or two. I like that idea. Will make the MSM go ballistic and I do think Alex can hold his own. He actually has been right more than he has been wrong these past 20 years.
Jared stopped him from doing that last time. Trump is very good in that format and should do it this time.
He’s already been doing it – alternating with his rallies.
No more rallies now, so plenty of public addresses would be a good recipe.
The Convention of States is a reckless, dangerous process. Brilliant minds including James Madison have warned against this and he is called the Father is the US Constitution. I have personally dealt with the COS Project people out of Houston, as well as Michael Farris, who confounded COS Mark Meckler. The are liars who totally misrepresent what is actually written in the Text of the US Constitution. Please do more research on the work of people like Phyllis Schlafly and even Chief Justice Burger who vehemently opposed this. Do not buy into the false promises that there are any guardrails to protect us such as “limiting the process to only one or two amendments” as the text itself says no such thing.
Agreed. IMO it would almost immediately run off the road and end up with something very unfriendly to the citizenry.
Like repealing 2a or limiting free speech.
Joanna Martin is very active in educating people on the dangers of a Constitutional convention. She writes a blog under Publius Hulduh. Joanna has several articles containing the facts on her blog. She has links to groups which have new constitutions written — dem and rep — they are just waiting for mis-educated people to give them their chance to change everything.
All Article 5 really does is get around the Congress block for amendments.
Amendment created under Article 5 still have to be ratified by 3/4 of the states.
Article V also sets forth two methods for states to ratify amendments to the Constitution. Congress determines which method the states must follow in order for proposed amendments to become effective. The first method of ratification requires three-fourths of the state legislatures to ratify an amendment to the Constitution. Alternatively, Congress may require that three-fourths of state ratifying conventions approve a proposed amendment. Congress has specified this second mode of amendment only once, for the Twenty-First Amendment, which repealed the Eighteenth Amendment establishing Prohibition.
Sorry , I have been involved with the convention of states and the Article 5 process for 12 years and have heard and studied probably ALL of the arguments against the convention of states. James Madison was an ardent supporter of the Article V. In fact he was the principle drafter of the amendment. He wrote in Federalist 43 his support for Article V and promoted it. I agree that there are liars about the amendment process as they are ignorant of history. Michael Farris is not one of them – he is a constitutional scho.ar. As for Phyllis Schlafly she was interested in using the Article V to end abortion. She spoke with Justice Burger about this and he was opposed. I suppose it was because he feared a reversal of his land mark decision of Roe vs Wade in 1973. And don’t get me started on Johanna Martin (aka Publius) she’s a nut case. The John Birch Society is one of the biggest opposition to the Convention of states, but at one time wanted to use it for their “Liberty Amendments” . Don’t know what changed their mind but most of what they spew is false , cherry picked quotations or just untruths.
Charlie Kirk has said that the vp can take control of the senate. I am sure Elon Musk is not going to just go along with this. He’s got a huge blow horn with X. I am going to push this idea on X and wherever I can. I refuse to accept this and I think we all should refuse to go along. Enough of this crap!
I was hoping Trump would appoint Thune, Cornyn, maybe Rubio, to head Executive Branch agencies. Then, as soon as they were replaced in the Senate, fire them!
I still think the Trump Team should use the Constitution on January 20,2025, make JD Vance the “Majority Leader” and give him all the powers of the Majority Leader in the Senate.
The constitution says the Vice President is the President of the Senate whose powers to schedule should be >= Majority Leader.
Interesting. Seems like that would have been taken advantage of previously.
Right. I don’t think that’s possible b/c that’s not Separation of Powers… but Vance does have power when there is a tie. There may be other powers he has too.
Interesting Article COMPILED By the SENATE Historian ( therefore ” official ” history ) –
https://www.senate.gov/about/officers-staff/vice-president/overview.htm
LOOKS to me that WE Need to RETURN to the customs of the 19th Century
for the Office of Vice President
Sundance has repeatedly talked about “The Big Ugly.” This war between the forces of MAGA-led by President Trump-and the forces of the UniParty Swamp was always going to be ugly. Please don’t pretend otherwise.
The UniParty Swamp is ruthless. They fight dirty and they believe that they are above the law. In this long war to restore the republic we will win some battles and lose some battles. The war will be long and brutal. We cannot give in to despair and dark imaginings just because we lost the Thune battle.
Stay focused on the goal. Pursue what Sundance calls Tactical Civics. Have faith in God and pray continually. Speak truth at all times to all people. Live your best life surrounded by your loved ones. We know how this movie ends.
God wins.
Thank you!
I’m not all that worried TBH.
Our communication today (X, podcasts, etc) is FAR superior to what it was several years ago.
Half the country (now a minority) has truly been brainwashed by MSM and controlled media. Those days are over.
Few trust the Wpost, NYT, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, AP, Reuters, etc. anymore. Their arrogance has exposed them as overtly dishonest. That means that … CIA DOJ FBI etc will also have far less power to manipulate the minds of Americans.
Guess we know his wife and kids don’t come first. Tells his true character, although he’s definitely showed who and what he really is long ago.
Thune has a very tight rope to walk if he wants to be Governor someday…..leverage my friends…leverage
Don’t think Thune is looking at being Governor in the near future especially since he has what he has been training for.
👍 💯
i THINK Thune MADE HIS CHOICE
( MORE ” perks ” with SENATE Position )
South Dakota Aircraft – twin-engine King Air 350I ( in 2021 ) TURBO-PROP
vs
SAM ( Air Force flt ) – C-40 Clipper ( Boeing 737-700 )
Why would he want to be a lowly governor after this?
Schumer comes out claiming Bipartisanship !What a bunch of CROCK .Filibustering is now a thing .
Frankly, perhaps in my naïveté, I can understand why the 17th amendment was written. If you take this info from SD’s article above: “Prior to the 17th amendment, there was significant state level corruption as business interests and senate candidates worked in power groups with party officials to attain the position. Politicians seeking Senate seats began campaigning for state legislative candidates in order to assemble support.” Then perhaps the idea was to attempt to remove that legislative ‘corruption in choosing senators, but giving the power to the people to vote them in. On paper, it sounds like a ‘we, the people’ kind of idea. Considering how corrupt we see various state legislatures actually are, particularly as evidenced in our presidential elections, does putting the choice of senators back to state legislatures remove any of the political corruption?
The lobbyists just moved from the states to Washington DC. Corruption was unaffected by the 17th Amendment.
I agree. The corrupting power is money. Conservatives have been reluctant to call lobbying legalized bribery, but that’s what it is. It could be easier and possibly more effective to differentiate between speech and money than repeal the 17th. I’ve always thought that lobbyist should be to advocating for their interest, publicly, and the offices in Washington should be forced to greater transparency.
Sundance did an expose on that a few years ago…lobbyists write the legislation in their favor.
Yes, didn’t mean to sound like I included Sundance in the generic conservatives – or libertarians really. Pursuing repeal of the 17th might be worthwhile. I’m in Oregon, so at the moment, in this state, we’d get someone even worse than what we have now. It’s one party rule at the state level and the loyal opposition has been routed.
I also meant to say lobbyist should be limited to advocating for their interest, not buying it.
It’s Influence Peddling, straight up!
But in that case at least the corruption was closer to the populace, who were more likely to become aware of it and fight against it.
I can’t answer your question. I agree that state legislatures become a chummy bunch and there is a serious group-think that occurs among their followers.
But…
It is much easier to buy just two people and compromise them than it is an entire state legislature.
A US Senator can pretend that he fought hard against boys in girls sports but, oh shucks! Darn it! I was outvoted.
That’s harder to pull off when you are beholden to the local state reps who are up for a vote every 2 years.
Perhaps there could be more interstate corruption on roads and other state contracts, perhaps, but less of our money getting sent to the UKraine or other National and global fleecing operations.
I understand what you mean. “On paper” it does sound better. The problem, though, is that the 17th amendment ignores human nature-probably intentionally.
Human beings are sinful, broken, corrupt from birth. The original sin of Adam and Eve is the reason why.
The state legislatures were composed of corrupt humans and their process of selecting Senators was full of corruption. The only change the 17th amendment made was to move the corruption to Washington DC-away from “we the people.”
As it stands now the UniParty Swamp decides who the candidates will be and who will win. The two wings of the UniParty trade money and power as part of the decision making and then manipulate the voting process to reach the desired outcome. We the people have virtually no say in the process.
Pre-17th Amendment the corruption was within each state-closer to we the people. Corrupt State Legislators could more easily be voted out of office.
“Nationalizing” the corruption was the only outcome possible with the 17th amendment. Nationalized Corruption is the foundation of what we now call “continuity of government.” It’s way worse than the process given to us by the Founding Fathers.
Nationalized Corruption is therefore, Out of Sight, Out of Mind.
Works the same way that tax withholding does.
You don’t ever see the the money, you don’t miss the money.
If the original intent is returned along with the agreement that these Senators can be recalled if corruption is revealed and they can be prosecuted for fraud etc….then perhaps some of the political corruption could be curtailed.
IMHO, the ONLY way we can remove ANY/ALL political corruption is for us to return to God and His Laws!
Or, as John Adams said:
https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_adams_391045
AMEN
SO We PRAY
I am so disappointed in Thune being elected Senate Majority Leader. He is another RINO, McConnell 2.0, only younger and more evil than Mitch. How could Republican Senators vote for him or Cornyn? I am fearful that there goes our MAGA Agenda, delayed, undermined, and prevented by the Senate.
Chuck Schumer congratulates John Thune on his win as the next Republican Senate leader and looks forward to working with him.
Did Smucky slip and use the word “uniparty”?
Doesn’t this guy own even one suit ? Can’t someone buy him one ???
He’s like a man sized wind-up doll they drag out of a closet for photo ops. No need to change a doll’s clothes.
Machiavelli said, “It must be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to plan, more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to manage than a new system. For the initiator has the enmity of all who would profit by the preservation of the old institution and merely lukewarm defenders in those who gain by the new ones.”
Mike Benz said, to paraphrase, “Domestic politics is an illusion and The Blob (IC, Five Eyes and corporate pals) actually runs everything in our successfully propagandized political idiocracy and has done so for a VERY long time.”
Princeton University’s 2014 study confirmed that by concluding, “To be sure, this does not mean that ordinary citizens always lose out; they fairly often get the policies they favor, but only because those policies happen also to be preferred by the economically-elite citizens [and their Blob – W] who wield the actual influence.”
Until you fix that, you won’t even be able to, for instance, get a non-RINO nominated as the “leader” of the phony opposition party in the Senate.
Unfortunately, the next four years is going to be an education for optimists.
The irony is that the United States Senate has gradually become England’s House of Lords which literally “lorded it over” the American colonies to the point of triggering our Revolution, while the House of Lord’s has gradually given way to the House of Commons in large part because King George V was persuaded to raise a sufficient number of commoners to the peerage to vote for the reform necessary to shift power to the House of Commons. Both were “reforms” initiated contemporaneously by the Progressive movement in our two countries, but the 17th Amendment arguably was the most damaging in retrospect because it was structurally more difficult to repeal or modify.
I see it more like the Senate of the Roman Empire. Caligula may have been right to appoint his horse as a Senator.
There is much more corruption money for Thune in the Senate than he would receive as the corrupt governor of South Dakota.
The earlier idea that he wants to be governor for familial reason seems to have fallen by the wayside.
A John Thune net worth website takes a guess of maybe a little over one million dollars. The man is going to be 64 in January. Maybe money is not that important to him. Could retire after his term expires and live on his nice government pension considering he will have over 20 years of service.
Sundance, a Constitutional Convention cannot be limited.
There is no way to do this because of the nature of the convention.
It is the People acting in their highest authority to create a government.
When the convention begins, the entire Constitution is open for amending.
Only the delegates have power and they have complete, plenary power to change anything, even to frame an entirely new Constitution with a new ratification system.
This is what happened in Philadelphia. A convention was called to alter the current constitution, but we all know what happened.
A constitutional convention (convention of states is a misnomer) cannot be limited.
Article V sets forth two methods for states to ratify amendments to the Constitution. 10 Congress determines which method the states must follow in order for proposed amendments to become effective. 11 The first method of ratification requires three-fourths of the state legislatures to ratify an amendment to the Constitution. 12 Alternatively, Congress may require that three-fourths of state ratifying conventions approve a proposed amendment. 13 Congress has specified this second mode of amendment only once, for the Twenty-First Amendment, which repealed the Eighteenth Amendment establishing Prohibition. 14
Yes, that’s what the current Constitution says.
If a Constitutional convention is called, a whole new Constitution — with a new ratification method — could be written and passed by the delegates.
That is the power of a constitutional convention. Whether people wrongly call it a convention of states or not, it is a constitutional convention and anything can happen during one.
The Convention of State identified in Article V is NOT a constitutional convention. It is an amendment convention called by the state legislatures. Article V specifically and explicitly limits the convention to proposing amendments to our current constitution.
You are incorrect.
An Article V convention is a Constitutional convention.
It is a convention called to amend the Constitution.
It can be nothing but a Constitutional convention.
An Article V convention is called by Congress, not the states.
The states submit applications to the government, but Congress decides when the application threshold has been met, and Congress calls the convention.
I’m sorry you don’t understand the power of a Constitutional convention.
Once the convention begins, the only people who have power over the convention are the delegates.
Once the convention begins, the delegates can propose anything and no one can stop them. The delegates can propose an entirely new constitution and no one can stop them.
This is what it means that the People create our government. It states right in the DoI — alter or abolish — a convention can do either.
There are groups on both sides of the aisle with new constitutions already written just waiting for mis-guided and misled people to call a convention.
The delegates at a constitutional convention are acting on the highest authority citizens have and they are acting on behalf of all the citizens in their respective states.
Sorry lgbiel, I have to respectfully tell you that you are ignorant of the facts surrounding an Article V convention of the states. You are just repeating statements that other people have concluded but have never researched fully.
The convention process is initiated when 34 states pass a resolution to call the convention and must be identical in purpose (items to be discussed) The actual convention when called can only discuss amendments defined in the resolution. Their only power is to propose amendments when a simple majority vote agrees (one state / on vote ) Ratification is defined by the amendment v, 3/4 of state legislatures or 3/4 state conventions.
And the last thing, Philadelphia convention followed the wording of their call. . Congress DID NOT call the convention to be limited to amending the Articles of Confederation. The call was defined by Virginia under their reserved powers of sovereignty and they were the first to propose. The call for the Philadelphia convention was “devising and discussing all such alterations and further provisions, as may be necessary to render the Federal Constitution adequate to the exigencies of the Union
You’re mistaken.
Article V
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.
So, what does it say there?
It says The Congress shall call a convention for proposing amendments when the legislatures of 2/3 of the states send in applications.
Have we EVER had a Constitutional convention besides the first one? Then how do you know what the rules of the convention will be?
Congress will make the call, Congress will decide when and where, Congress decides the ratification method (unless the convention delegates vote in a new ratification method).
The rules for a constitutional convention would be made at the convention by the delegates. They are the only ones with the power to establish the rules of the convention.
The ratification methods would be whatever the delegates at the convention agreed on. They could agree to the current ratification methods or they could create new ones.
The Philadelphia call….alterations and provisions to the Federal Constitution….
You and I both know they meant the existing federal constitution.
In Federalist No. 40 (15th para) James Madison invoked the “transcendent and precious right” of a people to throw off one government and set up a new one as justification for the Delegates to the federal “amendments” convention of 1787 ignoring their instructions to propose amendments to the Articles of Confederation, and instead writing a new Constitution with its own easier mode of ratification.
This is where I get my info — the Founders.
Article 13 of the AOC provided that amendments had to be approved by the Congress and all of the then 13 States. Accordingly, the States’ Instructions to the Delegates encompassed:
• “alterations to the Federal Constitution which, when agreed to by Congress and the several States, would become effective”: Va., Penn., Delaware, Georgia, S. Carolina, Maryland, & New Hampshire.
• “for the purpose of revising the Federal Constitution”: Va., Penn., N. Carolina, Delaware, & Georgia.
• “for the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation”: New York, Mass. & Conn.
• “provisions to make the Constitution of the federal Government adequate”: New Jersey.
The delegates at the Philadelphia convention didn’t follow the call or their state instructions. But, they didn’t have to.
The delegates were acting as the Sovereign Representatives of the People exercising their highest power to create their new government. Representatives of the old government couldn’t control them.
I’m shocked !🙄
-time will be telling
Trump can accomplish quite a bit by executive order. But the hope was that the dismantling of the deep state could be codified so that the next president can’t just come in and undo everything by executive order. So what Thune’s selection really means is that the fight continues. We do get a bit of a reprieve from the destruction of the Nation by the deep state with Trump’s re-election, but Thune reminds us that the fight isn’t over and there is a lot more work to be done.
If it wasn’t obvious before, Thune’s selection by secret ballot, along with some of his previous comments about Trump giving way to Pence for the nomination, as well as more recent quotes that “Trump should stay out of it”, oozes the kind of elitism We The People just rejected. Thune should be reminded of that at every opportunity.
He. Does. Not. Care.
Let’s see if Trump uses Vance as the secret weapon in the Senate. Remember, the only leaders in the House and Senate specified by the Constitution are the Speaker of the House and the Vice President of the US who is also President of the Senate. The binding rules of either house flow downhill from those particular offices.
I’m curious to see how aggressive Trump decides to be. I hope he crushes the GOPe.
Okay .. Thune and Company just had news conference Barrasso is Whip And Tim Scott is RNC overseer.They all And I say They all claimed doing the peoples wishes and backing Donald Trump in whatever it’s gonna take to Make America Great Again.I feel somehow skeptical but I will wait and see.
Pffft.
Let’s see a hand of those that believe this will be a repeat of Congress fighting PDJT’s agenda, like they did during his first term. All of Congress loves you for your vote until they are elected. Then you get a steady diet of middles fingers as they ask you what you’re going to do about it. SSDD!
We are now in protracted gorilla warfare, in the senate.
Moving this to the state legislatures, is just going to shift the avenue of how the same dame proxies get chosen.
I say that knowing my jurisdiction and state, like the back of my hand.
I have compared my notes with two other like minded people, from neighboring states. Same package, different location.
Look at Georgia. Do you really think that crooked bunch that pulled the garbage they pulled in 2020, is really going to chose “not a bought and paid for poison pill” to send to the senate?
The answer is no.
Rhino roundup – let’s see what happens
From where I live the candidate quality would probably be worse with a Senator elected by the 2/3 Democrat-controlled legislature. CA is a rat’s nest that will keep churning out shyte politicians no matter how they’re elected.
Kamala for Governor is already out there.
I don’t see how this would change much, corruption would still reign. At least in the current format the power is in the people to affect change, instead of giving that power to other politicians, doesn’t matter if it’s at the state level. There’s nothing that would lead me to believe state legislators would actually act on the states’ best interest either.
Hell, we saw how “effective” these state legislators were during covid, sitting on their hands as governors trampled on peoples rights, illegally changed voting protocol and rules without legislative acts and did nothing, and then sat on their hands again when results were “certified”, and in many cases obstructed the investigations into election interference. So yeah, sorry if I’m skeptical that this would change much, much less be worth the uphill battle to get it repealed. Seems like getting people to vote for different senators is a more pragmatic approach.
Anybody hear the press conference? He’s intimating that he’s on board with the agenda, and the rest of them are closing ranks, see how united we are, blah blah
That’s how it works in DC. They smile in your face. As they stab you in the back.
Very different from NYC battles. In NYC, they fight you in your face, directly.
But I think PDJT has now figured out DC.
We won a pivotal battle last week. But we still have a long fight ahead.
Bummer, but it was fun playing the what-if scenarios yesterday.
So then why nominate Noem and Lil Marco?
How about using a roving line of temporary czars to bypass confirmation? Obama had lots of czars.
It sounds like the lust is POWER.
What does Thune need millions for? His wife is alone, or w the grandkids, and you don’t need a lot of money in South Dakota.
(Did he buy thousands of acres hidden in a blind trust? Are his children DL versions of Hunter Biden?)
“One of the more challenging facets to awakening the general public on the scale of corruption within Washington DC is the need for people to drop party designations.”
This right here. It dawned on me over this election that we are already seeing seeds of this. With Gabbard, Musk, RFKjr, the Teamsters, and an increased portion of blacks and Latinos coming to support Trump, while Cheney, the Bush clan, etc. actively oppose him, we are seeing the Dems and new GOP defined not so much by left and right so much as by up and down. Both parties and the political landscape are being rebuilt.
The headwinds is that rule by the elite has always been a progressive tool, so it makes it a challenge to pull democrats away from that. It’s happening though.
We the People are a fickle bunch and scatter-brained too. Shiny objects get the attention.
If the COS people want to put their organization skills to work on something constructive, start with amendment(s) that will hamstring and obstruct the destruction of the principles of governance erected at the time of our founding and the Constitution itself. Identify the ways those principles have been corrupted and remove them via amendment(s).
We have almost 250 years of American history to look back on and judge the results that have gotten us to this point. There should be a way to ferret out what worked, what backfired/is backfiring and how the concept of governance by the People can be more permanently secured. The words and provisions of the Constitution may need some tweaking which can be done via amendment(s). The principles do not IMO.
He has 38 Senators to start with.
And Musk now knows PA extremely well, Dave McCormick.
You ungrateful snake.
What did McCormick do wrong already?
Now Imagine if the 75M MAGA voters were to join in on this initiative and commit to contributing $1.00 for every $5.00 that Elon contributes.
This works out to be
75M X $1.00 = $75M + $375M from Elon = $450M per RINO Challenge
I would love to see this type of initiative to catch fire as the RINO’s need to know that MAGA not only has mass but we also when brought together has $$$$$.
Coryn in 2026 could be MAGA’s test bed.
Technically the President doesn’t need to appoint any cabinet members. He has the plenary power to run all 15 departments. The purpose of the Cabinet is to ease the burden of running the Executive Branch. President Lincoln Cabinet were mostly enemies but they advised and he decided. If the President doesn’t agree how a Department is being run or its rules and regulations he can unilaterally modify or delete them. If his orders are not followed he just fires the recalcitrant employee. If Trump wanted to he had the power countermand Atkinson’s rule change which allowed anonymous and hearsay complaints. At that time however the Supreme Court hadn’t explicated the president’s plenary power.
Well, it’s a shame, but perhaps the SCOTUS “official acts” ruling can apply equally when it comes to the intransigent GOPrick RINOrats in CONgress.
The first test for these lying pieces of cow manure will be the Senate confirmation hearing for Ken Paxton as AG
If he is PT’s pick and they are people of their word then Paxton and everyone of PT’s selections should sail through the Senate Confirmation process.
Lets see if they are liars or supporters.
If liars then IMO from that moment forward We the People should boo the crap out of them every time they speak.
Our vote and our voice is our power.
That’s an insult to ALL types of manure, across the board!
1st THUNE deep-state move……
Convenient after Kari Lake gets ZERO from McConnell.
That’s an extremely important position, given the lack of said funding the last 8 years. I don’t see an issue with this.
Tim Scott is a POS.
Nothing will change!Mitch is still on charge!
Much has already changed. Trump won last week.
So we can get ready to fight Congress for the next 4 years. Yee ha!
hopefully senator scott to be next majority leader,
Returning our government to the control of citizens will require another Constitutional Amendment in addition to repealing the 17th Amendment. I’m not a legal beagle so I won’t try to put my suggestion into legalese.
Simply put, we should have an amendment that restricts campaign contributions to real, live human beings who are citizens and eligible to vote in the campaign to which they are contributing. Such contributions by individuals could be limited to a small percentage of the national median income to prevent the wealthy from dominating contributions.
No organization of any kind or nature could make any campaign contributions, period. This would eliminate dark money and inequitable contributions by special interests, corporations and the power elite 1%.
Such an amendment would dismantle the multi-billion dollar election industrial complex and force politicians to appeal directly to their constituents for support.
Well then, lets just “Tom Dashale” Thune in the near term.
“If we want to change the dynamic, we must repeal the 17th amendment and return to the original constitutional construct: Senators appointed to represent the interests of each state, by State Legislature.”
^^^^^^^^^^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!
AMEN
In a representative government there should NEVER be a secret ballot for anything.
Secret ballots create an environment of zero accountability to we the people.
RINOs don’t want to be known, be we know them all and time for the nonRINOs to get in their face day after day and doxx their a–
That’s true.
RINOs will have to be very careful what they do and say… lest they lose their job.
If they expose themselves as RINOs and fight against PDJTs/MAGA agenda, it will be EASY to primary them… bc … our communication/media (X, podcasts, etc) is far superior today than what it was several years ago.
And, NYT, WPOST, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, AP, MSNBC have exposed themselves as … dishonest liars. That means that CIA, DOJ, FBI, etc… will also have LESS power to manipulate the minds of Americans. They went too far and have exposed themselves. 😊
That single picture of Chi-Com Nochin Mitch and Crying UpChucky is the one photo that encapsulates everything that’s wrong with the current system
It’s actually a bit more than that. The Senators get placed on Committees by the Senate Leader – secret ballots don’t allow the Leader to know which Senators did not support him.
The Republic
Is Bankrupt
The Nation States
Are in a Union called
the UNITED STATES
They are Governed by GOVERNORS
of the STATE
Senators represent the Creditors of that state
And Govern the Debtor States Affairs
Senators GOVERN ZIP Codes
Which are FEDERAL ZONES
So Yes, it’s a representative government
Some representation is public
The admin of the debt
Some is private
The service of the debt
Sources:
Postal Reorganization act of 1962
UCC Codes
Creature from Jekyll Island
And distrust…well deserved.
EVIL occurs in the dark. Period.
Matt Gaetz for AG!!
This is my read on this, maybe I’m right maybe not, it’s more my gut feeling.
Mitch is a problem because of all the political capital he’s amassed, even right down to his wife.
This “New Guy” simply does not posses anything near that amount of capital.. or experience.
So while this is not good, maybe it’s also not as bad as we think either.
Which is not to say we shouldn’t attempt to do something about it.
BUT it’s also not accurate at all to think that we got rid of a Mitch and then gained another Mitch.
Thune may never be a Mitch McConnell– hopefully we can make sure this happens.
The conditions that created Mitch won’t be there anymore.
He has been McConnell’s protege for years.
I prefer to describe him as McConnell’s pet.
McConnell hasn’t left… he’ll still be yanking Thune’s leash.
I know that’s not a nice thing to say.
But I am past nice on this one.
But they both got elected by people like you and me; NOT appointed! They are just as susceptible to very close scrutiny, sunlight, mocking and embarrassment, just like any other human being. So if you consider yourself “Outside the Ring of Power”, perhaps you need to read Saul Alinsky’s book Rules for Radicals, because they DO consider you a radical if you’re not thrilled with their behavior. And right now, as the lying and corrupt MSM is collapsing, is the perfect time to do some Community Organizing to establish faxing and email battalions, question squads to attend their “outreach” events, etc. DO IT LIKE TRUMP DID! All politics is dirty!
That doesn’t matter.
Ever spend a whole lot of time training someone that just ain’t got it?
Look at how Alex Soros has turned out.
There are many examples like this.
You can’t train and teach people when it just isn’t there.
So lets hope this is a case like that..
Agree-Mitch is sui generis-like Nanzi
Of course they will be the same. Was it Thune that was pushing for Term Limits for the Speaker?
No – it was Cornyn did that.
Was it Thune who went on the Campaign trail with President Trump? No, it was Cornyn who did that.
Where did President Trump have Leverage? Over Thune, up for re-Election in 2028 with no opponent OR Cornyn in 2026 with an opponent?
I get why everyone bought into the Narrative that Cornyn is Anti-Gun, it’s because they didn’t read the BILL. They didn’t like what Cornyn said about Paxton, I didn’t either, but that’s a personal issue with the two of them & rare for Cornyn to make a statement like that.
The Reality here is that it wasn’t the Senate that chose Thune— it was Rick Scott, he could have asked his supporters to vote for either one.
He was elected to the position. That gives him the capital.
Neither will Mitch-