Before getting into the weeds, here’s the big picture baseline. All documents and records created within the executive branch are created for the benefit of the head of the Executive Branch, the president.
There is no entity, organization, assembly, institution, person or individual, above the President of the United States. The president holds absolute power and absolute immunity. Everyone within the executive branch works at the pleasure of the president, and all work products are created for his administration. This is the plenary power of the president.
The entire documents case in Florida rests on the principle that another entity supersedes the president within the executive branch. Some unknown, unnamed bureaucracy can override the president and decide for themselves what would be called a “presidential record” and what would be called “classified information.”
Jack Smith, Norm Eisen (pictured left, red tie) and Andrew Weissmann each argue that some other entity rests atop the president and can make this decision.
Judge Aileen Cannon has not determined which constitutional argument is correct, and has told the parties to create jury instructions both ways. The Lawfare crew of Smith, Eisen and Weissmann are going bananas.
[…] Cannon’s first scenario would allow the jury to make a factual determination about whether a former president deemed a record to be personal or official under the PRA. That is nonsensical – presidents are not allowed to designate official records as personal ones, so there is no factual issue for a jury to resolve.
A different set of laws govern the classification process and the rules for handling highly sensitive classified documents — not the PRA. They include Executive Order 13526. One of the authors of this column (Eisen) helped write that executive order. The 11th Circuit has already established that those rules fully apply to former presidents.
Cannon seems to think that the PRA somehow supersedes the executive order and the rest of federal law pertaining to the handling of classified materials. It does not. On the contrary, the PRA defines “personal records” as “all documentary materials … of a purely private or nonpublic character which do not relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President.” That cannot possibly include highly classified battle plans, nuclear secrets and the other official documents at issue in this criminal prosecution.
That rules out Cannon’s first hypothetical. But as Smith points out in his filing, the second alternative is just as bad. She made up a legal standard, asking both sides to assume that Trump could have deemed a record personal by simply not including it with the records transmitted to the National Archives and Records Administration at the end of his term. If this were true, the mere fact that Trump took the documents with him from the White House would inherently turn them into personal records.
Of course, Trump leaped at this interpretation, fashioning proposed jury instructions that would inevitably result in his acquittal. But, as Smith noted, this approach has no basis in the law — or the facts. Even Trump himself does not seem to have considered classified documents personal after he left the White House, as evidenced in an audio recording CNN obtained last year in which Trump, during a conversation at his Bedminster, New Jersey, estate in 2021, discussed documents remaining classified even though he took them with him upon leaving office. Smith hits this point hard, arguing that Trump’s position that records are personal was “invented” when the controversy over the documents began to emerge in February 2022, over a year after Trump left the White House. (read more)
Are we witness to the modern telling of Henry VI?
it seems that back in 1592, Shakespeare peered into the future of Lawfare, suggesting that the battlegrounds of power would shift from fields to courtrooms, foreseeing the legal maneuvers that now define our political landscapes.
Yes! What was the first thing they should do with the lawyers?
TY for reference
Talking about something has replaced actually doing something.
We’re being talked out of existence.
Cowards find the battlefield of the courtroom safer than traditional warfare. Cowards hate the sight of blood.
wait until Cannon says Smith was illegally appointed….
Exactly! Watch….https://rumble.com/v4h6j5x-jack-smiths-appointment-is-illegal-and-unconstitutional-steven-calabresi.html
When viewing this type of comment from Lawfare lawyers, the safest way to evaluate its content is to turn the argument around and run it the other or opposite way.
Ex.: If a Liberal judge used this same argument in a similar case against the current president would these same lawyers have the same response?
Because corrupt lawfare instigators and tools cannot be compared with their victims, I tend to replace their loaded adjectives and phrases with more neutral and less legally supported ones or counter-loaded so as to try to preserve the status (lawfare and its victim) of both. As an example, with the last paragraph:
Of course,Trumpleaped at thisinterpretation, fashioning proposedfavored the jury instructions that wouldinevitablymore likely result in his acquittal.But, asSmithnoted,claims this approach has no basis in the law — or the factsEvenand that Trump himself does not seem to have considered classified documents personal after he left the White House, asevidencedsuggested in an audio recording CNN illegally obtained and broadcast last year in which Trump, during a conversation at his Bedminster, New Jersey, estate in 2021,discussedappears to discuss documents remaining classifiedeven thoughwhen he took them with him upon leaving office. Smith tries to hithitsthis point hard,arguingclaiming that Trump’s position that records are personal was “invented” when the controversy over the documents began to emerge in February 2022, over a year after Trump left the White House.Mel,
Thank you for cleaning up their screed.
Yeah, my brain clears up their parseltongue with a steady stream of invective to hurry the lies on their way.
So Executive Orders override statutory language. Who’d a thunk that?
Obama liked to issue fatwahs, so
Isn’t that what Demorat Presidents do when they want to overide the Constitution? Ask the Japanese.
Sundance’s 2nd para. should be the opening statement on Trump’s motion to Judge Cannon to dismiss.
It would turn the Smith/Eisen team into banana frappe.
I disagree. And so would you if this weren’t lawfare, and if it applied to a Democrat in office. The president is not immune from everything. He is not above the constitution or the law. The executive is no more exempt from checks and balances than any other branch of government. Such an argument is anathema to our system of government, such as remains of it.
The argument here is that Trump’s papers were secured, were protected under the PRA, and that this is clearly a politically motivated witch hunt. This last is evidenced by the disparate nature of the handling of documents in the Biden & Trump cases, by Merrick Garland’s decision to okay a SWAT team raid on the residence of a former president, by the staged photos of “evidence” leaked by FBI agents to regime friendly outfits, and by the very subject matter of the documents themselves. THAT is his argument.
Stomping his feet and declaring “I’m immune” is a loser in both the court of law and the court of public opinion.
He is immune, but that point is moot because Trump has broken no laws.
And he, the President, is the Executive. No one else, only the President. Not the VP, DHS, CIA, DOJ, FBI, DOD, DOE, IRS, etc.
This has nothing to do with checks and balances; it has everything to do with the Office of the President, and the authorities afforded the office by the Constitution.
The President is the CIC and controls national security, not the agencies. The law passed to create the agencies of unelected bureaucrats relies on the stated powers of the Office of the President to give legal authority to permit those agencies to support the President in carrying out their duties.
Everything else is Lawfare and gaslighting.
Trump has broken no laws and had plenary power under the Constitution. But that doesn’t matter here because he is not being tried under the law by lawful prosecutors and judges. He is in a tribunal where law and the Constitution do not apply. It is designed to give the appearance of an actual legal trial but that it is not what it is.
Agreed, hence my comment about everything else is lawfare and gaslighting.
The good thing from my perspective- a lot of regular people see it. Now, not all of them know how to process it yet. They just know it’s off and doesn’t “FEEL” right. They see more and more as the commies push the envelope.
Where it leads…..it all depends on how much the normies are willing to take. Yes, the normies and not us. We are already fully aware and making the connections.
TY
If what you say is true, how do you explain or justify fjb breaking this countries laws ALL OVER THE PLACE, and no one seems to care?
By the same means as Biden was installed.
When the fish rots from the head, when the elites feed at the trough, when the judicial system cannot define what a women is, when academia says reading and math are indicators of white supremacy, when churches bless gay marriages, when airlines select blind, gay, jewish eskimos who are deaf dumb and blind over experienced, qualified, and trained individuals. and a society that allows rapists to roam the streets after raping and murdering people without requiring bail, you have a society like the USA.
A society where diversity trumps sanity. A society where equity trumps justice. A society where socialism trumps individual rights. A society with unity means nothing but tribalism is all. A society that ignores what it cost to develop the greatest civilization the world has ever seen in favor of the fantasies of Utopian elitists who have never worked, never sacrificed, never known hardship and want to see the world burn to achieve their vision.
This is how we get to where we see people like Floyd anointed as St Floyd, Saint of Recreational Pharmaceuticals and Urban Renewal.
This is how we have men without chests, spines, chins and brains telling us to tolerate such behavior, to negotiate with such beasts, to have mercy for such behavior and attitudes.
This is how you face the battle of Good vs Evil at the end of Days.
A storm is coming. Prepare. The loser will be shown no mercy.
Very well said, thank you.
This is why we need to, as SD says, fight like we are the third monkey and the Arch is about to leave.
Hogwash. I apply the law the same to all, including the marxist democrats and republicans.
The president owns every document produced, can use it as toilet paper if he wishes. YOU don’t get to override the president.
I agree. Immunity doesn’t really exist. I think I understand the law to say that the president can not be prosecuted for official actions unless he is impeached and removed.
On an “unofficial action” it would have to be determined by an impeachment inquiry/trial, again before prosecution.
If a sitting president snuck out the back door, bought some drugs and got in a fight with the dealer resulting in the dealers death, is that official? What if the president said this was an op meant to educate the president on the issue and help with crafting solutions but unfortunately it went bad and the president had to defend himself.
What I’m saying is that almost everything could be determined to be official given enough lies. So, I just don’t see any UNofficial acts nor laws broken unless congress acts.
Your argument presumes we need a permanent bureaucracy that holds secret blackmail over our highest elected official — transparency be damned. There’s not a nuclear secret out there worth more than our freedom.
This^^^^^
We live in Woke**Estain aka libtard hell…where they disengage from reality…Morally, Mentally, and emotionally bankrupt retards…24/7 aka: the victim club.
The POTUS has plenary and presumptive power to declassify. Otherwise a subordinate with a different agenda would ham string the POTUS’s ability to communication previously classified info to the American People. “The Deep State System” could also charge the POTUS with mishandling of docs…which is actually what is happening. The POTUS has plenary and presumptive power to declassify.
^this^
By the act of taking items from the White House it has therefore been identified as declassified. That the boxes were packed by GAO employees would seem to confirm that assessment. The attempts to claw back IC designation has been thwarted by Judge Cannon by requiring the prosecution to allow the jury to decide on each item..
Maybe Cannon should put a gag order on Team DOJ… like Merchan put on Team Trump.
Wasn’t Merchan overturned on 4 occasions by an appeals court, yet continued forward on his anti-Trump trajectory?
Again….LawFare them back….
I’m pretty sure there are conservative lawyers out there that could/would donate time and/or accept donor money to use LawFare against the “deep state” and those abusing governmental power.
Fight fire with a bigger fire.
Jack Smith, Norm Eisen and Andrew Weissmann, and the rest of the second tier lawfare jerks, are hardly what I would call lawyers. They are legal vermin and leeches. They really don’t work on actual cases. They traffic in baseless cases, made up indictments, and exist only to indulge their extreme Trump hatred.
They may get initial pyrrhic victories because of where the trials are being held and corrupt leftist judges, but all of their cheap cases will be overturned on appeal.
Trump will win the election in November. I can only imagine the amount legal B.S. that will be thrown at Trump beginning in Jan. ’25. It will make the Russia hoax look like a picnic.
Trump should hand all of these garbage cases off to his lawyers, ignore these pipsqueaks, and get on with the business of restoring America.
“They traffic in baseless cases, made up indictments, and exist only to indulge their extreme Trump hatred.”
They get away with whatever we let them get away with.
You are correct sir.
Yes, great description of the bottom-feeding scum-suckers that are lawfare shysters.
Every jurisdiction has its share of “gutter lawyers”. When on the other side, the tough part is to not fall into mud pit with them. You do not want to ruin your reputation with the court.
With the Trump cases, however, the court itself is more than half of the problem:
Engoron is absolutely corrupt, to the core.
Tanya Chutkan is a rabid Trump=hater.
Marchan is corrupt and conflict-ridden.
McAfee is conflict-ridden and possibly corrupt, and showed extreme cowardice on the bench in letting Fani & her minions turn his court into a clown show.
Aileen Cannon to date is the lone exception. Cannon has shown that she is above the fray, as a jurist should be, but we shall see.
The lawfare “brain trust” of Eisen, McCord, Weissmann, ad nauseum, are ghost-writing the pleadings and choreographing the cases for the dopes like Fani & Alvin.
You are correct. President Trump should stand above it all, and let his attorneys duke it out.
F these Crap Weasels
This, right here, pertains to anything created in the Executive branch; an excerpt from Article II Section 2 of our Constitution, “he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices”. This is the benchmark for all communications, etc. created that an executive branch entity may classify. Sundance’s second paragraph lays it out logically as it pertains to this issue. Article II Section 2 ,of our Constitution, backs this up entirely. People may argue that this only applies to the heads of departments, etc., but that would be foolhardy ,as it would assign power to an underling that would be greater than that of the executive himself.
And it clearly outlines that the powers of these departments are derived from the Office of the President.
Our government has far outlived it’s usefulness.
Our government as designed in the Constitution was suited solely for a moral and religious people. The debauched, wretched, corrupt, diseased mob that now inhabits this land does not acknowledge God nor exhibit the moral forbearance nor spirit of the men who built this nation. Ergo a new form of government is required to meet the needs of this debauched mob.
“The president holds absolute power and absolute immunity”
This statement by Sundance seems poorly worded. Absolute immunity? Yes, concerning actions taken as President. Absolute power? No. The President has plenary power with respect to document classification, but that is not the same thing as absolute power.
Fair points, but I think he’s specifically referring to absolute power when it comes to the documents.
Of course. Context has a place.
Pretty sure a law (PRA) supersedes an EO
Not if you are a commie globalist.
Laws can be unconstitutional also. Even laws upheld by a SCOTUS decision.
Think Dred Scott.
Dred Scot had more basis in law than the SCOTUS decision outlawing capital punishment or abortion. The Founders never envisioned SCOTUS as being equal to the other two branches of the government.
I’m not a lawyer (would jump in front of a speeding train before I would stoop that low) but don’t think such an important decision should be left up to a jury that is most likely already intentionally corrupt.
The law that has been used since the founding of this nation is the law that we need to be using. Not some new legislating from the bench communist manipulation of the law. It is very bad when the real criminals are being allowed to make new rules.
Ah, yes. The left wing double standard. The linked article discusses removing Judge Cannon from the case because of her insistence on following the law and giving President Trump’s defense team fair consideration.
IOW, Judge Cannon should recuse or else be removed NOT for alleged corruption or the appearance of impropriety but merely because the Lawfare team doesn’t like her. However, manifestly corrupt Judge Merchan with a direct family pecuniary interest in the case he’s presiding over, and who has personally made incendiary comments about President Trump … meh.
It’ll be fine. Nothing wrong here.
Eisen, Weismann, Cohen ad nauseum, what do they all have in common besides being lawyers? Call me whatever you want but facts speak for themselves.
All three are corrupt to the core communists, that’s what.
Joe Biden is a catholic, so is pelosi. Is that what you mean?
You know what I mean. But I can’t say it because it will not be printed. “They” control speach, politicians, foreign policy and even the comment sections on most sites.
If Biden is a catholic then I am sure Eisen is a truly devout jew. In exactly the same way that Pelosi and Biden are devout Catholics. Is that what you mean?
The Lawfare crowd are, by definition, lawyers. Part of the job of a lawyer is to attempt to hide a guilty client by covering the crime with inapplicable hog wash to distort the smell of the guilty behavior. This particular hog wash gang are very good at hog washing the truth so as to make their lies smell a little better in a court of law. Lawyers should not be blamed for their constant overreaches, because they are taught to stretch any story into a defense of the usually indefensible. This is their job. The job of any competent Judge is to protect the legal system from the stench of the hogwash of the legal beagles, so as to keep the truth smelling better. Here is to any Judge who understands their role in any trial.
Judge Cannon seems to be trying to walk a fine line between her primary duty and her deference to the struggles of the legal profession. She is fence sitting because she doesn’t know which side is closer to her own abyss. I had fun with this nonsense, but it comes from a long life littered by occasional conundrums.
It is such judges that allowed the US to set up concentration camps for the Japanese in the past and in the future will probably add ovens.
We were at war and it was for the survival of our Country. Times are very different now. I don’t condone the internment of the Japanese because it was an excessive reaction to 2500 dead Americans in Honolulu. But those so called “concentration camps” were not even comparable to real concentration camps. But, if we don’t defeat the Demcommies this time, we may get to know what concentration camps are all about. So, in that respect I agree with you.
So the judge is doing what ever other coward against lawfare is doing: covering her butt. Judges have lost all sense of justice but, instead, rely solely on passing the buck when it comes to standing against these clowns. She’ll get no heads up from me.
A giant leap backwards for logic.
WOW! A case of the pot calling the kettle Black- with the Fani Willis case and Letitia James’ outrageous persecution of Trump, I guess the left believes that they can do whatever THEY want to get Trump but when judge actually rules on the evidence, and leans towards Trump;s side, she needs to replaced? Their guy had a house , office and GARAGE full of government top secret dox that he (as Senator and VP) had NO RIGHT to take..- kept some at Penn-Biden offices (where his secretary testified- under oath – that anyone who asked to see them was allowed to , and told the ghost writer of is book that the had iop Secret Dox and SHARED THEM WITH HIM!…Trump’s were in a sealed and bolted room at Mar-A-Lago that the NAtional archives visited and approved- he lives on 20 acres surrounded by water and his home is gurarded by secret Service 24/7. Compare and Contrast……THEN decide who is getting fair treatment.
I hope you know the FBI will visit you at 4 am because you are are obviously a white supremacist terrorist threat.
Eisen and Weissman, 🤔 what could possibly go wrong there. Surely they’re pure as the driven snow and beacons of virtue! Right?
I would like to see a full and public inventory of the documents that Obama, Clinton and Biden (while he was in Congress) have in their personal protection. I would bet every penny I have that all three have documents that would be classified if viewed in the same lens as they are using against Trump.
It was none other than US District Court Judge Amy Jackson that set the precedent in the Clinton classified tapes in the underwear drawer case back in 2012. The precedent has never been overturned and hence stands. The Marxist left made the rules, and now Jack on Smack needs to live with them. No amount of hissy fits will change precedent.
Diversity and equality demands different standards for white people, and Trump is a special category of white people. Biden and Clinton have both claimed to have been raised as black, ergo they must be black.
Ahh….poor crybabies, not getting their way like the left-wing ‘rat judges in dc and ny. Maybe if you stomp your feet and hold your breath for as long as you can Judge Cannon will consider your baseless requests.
My question is that, if the President has absolute plenary power over the documents per the language in the Constitution, how can the Presidential Records Act limit him in any way?
The Constitution, according to the Demorats is a mere piece of paper that binds no one. It is a mere suggestion to be discarded at the whim of the moment. Hence Brandon’s ability to waive student debt or the SCOTUS to end abortion.
The challenge is Trump declassified a lot of records unfortunately subject to big Billy Barr’s approval. Trump has once again been screwed by DOJ.
We are faced with a choice between good and evil. Between the right and the wrong. Between civilization and Baal. Biden and his posse has shown time after time they want the world to be reduced to one where the Lord of the Flies rules.
In communist countries the Communist Party is above the government and everyone in the government. This is the frame of reference these Leftists are coming from.
Note the gaslighting: “classified battle plans, nuclear secrets, and other official documents…”. Big poop emoji on that one. We know its all Russia collusion hoax stuff that impugns the FBI and DOJ.
All executive power is vested by the Constitution in the POTUS. He shares executive power with no one. The POTUS IS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH. He alone determines what is and what isn’t classified. Which is why Judge Cannon should have thrown this case out at the outset. That and the general search warrant violation at Mar-a-Lago.
Any day Andrew Weissmann is mad is a good day!
I hate that elevator pic of smugness, knowing that they are untouchable in their criminality, they need a comeuppance.
Well, sure. Everybody knows that Norm Eisen can create a President of the President by fiat invention of an Executive Order. That’s why we have elections, so the President of the President can have a President to preside over.
Makes perfect sense. Only the President of the President can overthrow the President.
Norm Eisen said so.
Personality Disorder anyone? Seems to be plenty of that going around these days.
About your discussion yellow zone and grey zone. What most readers do not understand is the the proposed CBDC currency or card is imposed capital controls, limiting trade, speech, productivity, startups etc.
Steven Cohen the owner of the Mets said just yesterday that the 4 day work week is coming (less productivity)
The Club of Rome climate hoax was the beginning of it all. We have to become less productive (the helots) to save the earth.
More for them.
Less productive also means less families
Since we, meaning the public, do not know what these documents are or what they may contain, is it entirely possible that this whole case is a fraud? Cannon had originally wanted to have them verified by a judge or outside party but Smith had that struck down. Has Trump or his lawyers even viewed the documents in question or are they just supposed to take the prosecutor’s word for it?
I recall in the picture of all the folders etc. laying on the floor, that there appears to be a box of magazines or magazine covers, surely these are not classified! An additional question: for how long is a “classification” designation good for before it is outdated or no longer meaningful? I am quite sure that nobody goes back into all the older documents and restamps them when that info becomes public or outdated.
All this is moot; the current administration is not only irretrievably corrupt but illegitimate as well. They ( with assistance from many
” Republicans”, the Vice President, the president’s own staff, and no less than the Supreme Court) cheated the rightful winner (and the American people) out of a righteous victory, and nothing happened. We sat there and took it. Because violence is baaaaaad. Some did express dissatisfaction, but they’re being rounded up and sent to the gulag. And probably nothing will happen when they do it again.
I thought a President had full, plenary declassification powers with any document and can share them with any man in the street at his own personal discretion. Maybe there is an issue about whether or not this needs to be formally established with each document, but seems to me that any document kept in a SCIF-like space in a home with Secret Security cannot be said to violate any sort of Espionage Act.
It is rather discouraging that such flimsy cases are getting such long-lived traction.
Meanwhile, the gentle Russian philosopher Alexander Dugin is exhorting his people to go into full-bore War mode and mobilize the entire population and civic mores accordingly. The contrast between East and West has never been so stark.