Yes, it’s true, according to the information contained in the Jack Smith indictment of President Donald John Trump, The Conservative Treehouse likely holds similar “classified documents” as outlined in the case by the special prosecutor.
Once you understand how, you then understand one of the most overlooked nonsensical aspects to the insufferable DOJ and FBI case that has been pushed in the media for the past year.
The indictment accuses President Trump of withholding documents containing “classified markings,” a very specifically deployed obtuse wording intended to create the implication of something nefarious where nothing nefarious exists. It is entirely possible for a person, any person, especially a person who follows the news, to possess documents containing “classified markings.”
There is a big difference between a classified document and a document containing classified markings. As an example, anyone who has looked at the Carter Page FISA application, made public in July 2018, has reviewed a document containing “classified markings.” When a document is declassified, they do not remove the markings.
You might think this is a one-off use of the “documents with classification markings” lingo, but it’s not. This language is the underpinning of the entire DOJ/FBI framework that predicated the raid on Mar-a-Lago. Specifically, neither NARA nor the DOJ-NSD requested President Trump or his team to return Classified Documents. The DOJ demanded the return of any documents that contained “classified markings.” [SEE BELOW]
Because the verbiage is so intentionally obtuse (ie. Lawfare), a fulsome production in compliance with this DOJ demand would include any newspaper or magazine articles that had a picture of the Carter Page FISA application, or any printed online article that might contain the same or similar elements. There is a big difference between asking for a classified document return, and asking for a return of documents that contain “classified markings.” [Example from CTH, below left]
As a result, it is entirely possible, I would say almost certain, that President Trump -and his legal team- returned every document that contained classified information but may have omitted documents that retained “classified markings”. There’s the spirit of compliance, and the letter of absolute compliance when contrast against a very granular interpretation of the request.
It is obvious from the demand, the DOJ/FBI were casting a wide net on the compliance side, knowing that amid hundreds-of-thousands of presidential documents and records, there would be obscure documents with classified markings that had nothing to do with national security. Thus, the “classified markings” establishes a Lawfare compliance tactic.
It will be interesting to see how this nonsense progresses. It becomes easier to call it nonsense, when you simply accept the approach being used. If the DOJ-NSD, FBI, Special Counsel or NARA were genuinely interested in ‘national security issues’, they would not be playing obtuse word games in order to structure court filings simply for media narrative engineering and propaganda purposes.
Again, all of these insufferable pretending elements simply create more avenues for smart legal minds to highlight to the court. The judges can see through this nonsense, and their action or lack thereof becomes part of showcasing their own agenda. Fortunately Judge Cannon has a very solid background on the Mar-a-Lago documents case. She wouldn’t need to have this stuff pointed out to her; she has already experienced it.
In the interim, for your own conversational points with friends and family, simply draw their attention to the difference between Classified Documents and documents containing “classified markings,” eventually everyone except the rabid orange-man-bad moonbats will figure out the games being played.
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ps. My advice would be to hire this guy and let him have fun with it.
Thank God for Sundance!
Thank you for pointing this out.
I’m thinking the DOJ must have accepted President Trump’s claim as legitimate that he declassified documents on his own authority. Had they asked for “Classified” documents, he would respond “there are none.”
Hence the “Classified markings”. These weren’t even originals as far as I can tell. So, what was the legal rationale for demanding return of document copies with markings?
If he took them with him, they are declassified and his property. The courts have already decided this in the Clinton case (classified material in his sock drawer)
In addition, as I understand it, “de-classification” does not apply to the President, who is the Chief Executive Officer and entitled to everything, and is authorized to release whatever information he wants. It only applies to others being authorized to release the information.
“It will be interesting to see how this nonsense progresses. “
After a federal Grand Jury issued a subpoena (5/11/22), a judged approved a search warrant citing Espionage Act among others (issued on 8/5/22 executed on 8/8/22), now they issued 31 charges in violation of Espionage Act, among others [1].
For those who are in the know: This is the key question (since ten months):
Did President Trump had “unauthorized possession of, access to, and control over documents” named in counts 1-31 and are these documents “related to national defense”? (pp 28-33 of indictment)
To simply dodge EO 13,526 [2] as law in effect (pp 5-9 of indictment) doesn’t help to legally answer this question!
[1 ]gov.uscourts.flsd.648653.3.0_2.pdf (courtlistener.com)
[2] The President Executive Order 13526 | National Archives
Let me help you understand.
President Trump declassified the documents he had in his possession.
The Constituition Trumps any and all of the DOJ stuff and statutes.
Obama still has classified docs in his possession as does others.
Biden had NO authority to take classified docs from a classified skiff and keep them as VP.
Also biden had no authority as president to leave them in his garage and elsewhere unsecured.
Pence was caught with classified docs like biden.
Pence did NOT voluntarily send them back when requested.
President Trump had full authority to keep his docs because of his full authority to declassify the ones he had.
DOJ is making people think he has docs he was not suppose to have.
A lie.
“President Trump declassified the documents he had in his possession.”
Though Espionage Act charges looming, he was and still is under the impression that his retention of documents mentioned in C1-31 was authorized. Unfortunately, his assumptions are based on an error of law. It’s sad that Alina Habba, one of his lawyers, still shares this sentiments [1]. Why did they not file “automatic declassification argument” in court?
“DOJ is making people think he has docs he was not suppose to have. A lie.”
A defensible legal opinion is not classified as a lie! It’s up to President Trump’s lawyers to explain in court why he was authorized to possess, have access to and control over documents named in counts 1-31.
Your Obama, Biden, and Pence comparison could be qualified as a “selective prosecution defense” in Court. How many subpoenas where issued in these cases?
[1] Trump’s lawyer says she advises against plea deal in classified doc case | Fox News
These documents are all prepared specifically for the President as Chief Executive. He has every right to possess them. A bad lawyer doesn’t make an invalid claim valid.
When corrupt ppl are covering for each other, this is where we are. Exposing every last one of them is necessary. This is in fact dragging out the political theater for the Woke crowd. You seem enthralled. They also desperately believed it would cause his base to divide. Nope. The more they harangue and harass him, the stronger our base gets. They’d also hoped to have dragged this out long enough to have a new Republican nominee. Nope. FYI- Its just further evidence that he is the man for the job. He is a threat to their illegal power structure & he continues to expose them by defending himself. He is not a stupid man, by any stretch. He speaks truth & he loves our country. I’m sorry if that offends you. The truth often offends those who are fooled by a lie.
Since all classified documents are prepared FOR the President, and he can declassify them at will, he cannot use them to commit espionage.
Classified = lies.
Can’t believe my tax money is paying for all this garbage. And for what? Nothing has been done to correct election rigging. Yet, these people still seem afraid of Trump, even with nothing being done about the rigging. Guess I will have to keep watching.
Make different choices to eschew any support for the cretins or their mission. Some of those choice rise to civil disobedience and even anarchy. Remember our founders. Life, sacred honor and fortune. It wasn’t awe shucks let’s all get along. It was war.
However, while 3% purportedly were doing, 97% were watching. Human nature changes very little over time. History has recorded it.
3% of today’s population would be 10 million. No army could stop that. Just saying.
Not even three tenth of the population has the intestinal fortitude to stand up against this evil government.
They fear he may gets many votes the election fraud would be too obvious. Theses are attempts to cost him enough votes that they can pull it off
As part of my job, I had 100’s of reference documents obtained from DTIC (Defense Technical Information Center) and various other Miltary Sources (US, NATO and Foreign) . Some actually contained classified information but most were “Unclassified” with respect to content but still retained their classification markings.
There is one more item Sundance does not mention.
ALL materials that start life containing classified materials come (start) with a type of summary cover sheet, which includes:
Document Synopsis
Material Classification Level
Date Created
Date Classified, with Document or Material Control Number
Copy Number, if not the original
Date Declassified and WHO declassified it, if the document has been declassified
Owner and Creator of the Document
Declassification Instructions and who has authority to declassify it. [Note: The President can declassify anything. That is a given and ALL other authority is technically “DELEGATED AUTHORITY” from the President of US by law.]
A Declassification Date, if one is established when the document is created. That’s right, many documents actually come with a declassification date preloaded or determined.
It would be interesting if the cover sheets on the documents became public and add to article written by Sundance.
All sorts of stuff. Even the documents Sundance holds have this cover sheet. It is necessary for the Protection of all involved.
Further, if the documents were individual pages or sections … the holder of those pages or sections would have been wise to attach the actual document cover sheet or at at least insure declassification information was included (at least the declassification date and who did the declassification).
Reading SD’s article here, I was thrown early on as I saw “classifiCATION markings” wording, via gov’t documents. But SD mentions “classified markings”. I think I am missing something.
I have had trouble with the two words. IMO, Classification refers to a ‘status’ (it is or/not classified). When I looked at SD’s example, it shows the words TOP SECRET// ….. crossed out. To me, that is a ‘classification status’.
I agree, FarmerRen. The indictment refers to “classification markings,” but Sundance uses the term “classified markings.” Are they synonymous? I would think that the markings themselves aren’t classified, but the markings indicate the original classification category of the document; so they’d be “classification markings,” as worded in the indictment.
Please don’t make assumptions about the administrative control of national defense information classified via the various EOs. I have seen a wide range of practices. Especially for material marked “confidential”. Use of the term “classification marking” I see as obvious in a court filing. Note also that certain other information is not subject to those EOs, such as nuclear weapon data considered “restricted data” by the Atomic Energy Act.
Formal declassification is what enables others to possess and reveal the contents of formerly classified documents. It does not pertain to Presidential rights.
“classified markings,” a very specifically deployed obtuse wording intended to create the implication of something nefarious; just like “Russian Collusion.”
This why the “Special Master” review, ordered by none other than the same Judge Aileen Cannon, of the Mar-a-Lago materials was stopped.
If none of the materials seized at Mar-a-Lago were classified or President Trump had them “legally”. A motion to squash ant legal action would have been easy to make and the “public” exposure very damaging to the DoJ.
Also, one can be assured, more than Mar-a-Lago materials are (or soon will be) included in the Special Counsel’s efforts. If we learned anything from 2017-2020, the DoJ expands everything when it comes to President Trump.
What do you make of the video/audio recordings of Trump showing some associates document(s) and saying “these are still classified”. Is this relevant, or a smokescreen? Is it chargeable, or dismissable?
If he had it, it was declassified.
He meant at the time it was written. He was making a joke.
Keep in mind 99% of adults have zero comprehension of the difference between “Classified Markings” and “Classified Materials” as discussed by Sundance.
This is an easy bullet point and talking point news story to spin.
That’s the purposeful conflation. Most citizens go about their lives and hear snippets on TV. They don’t pay close attention to details.
Lawfare knows this and weaponizes the wording precisely for this purpose.
Citizens don’t get into the weeds and don’t care to. I believe that’s why President Trump’s team tries to keep his messaging as simple and as short and sweet as possible. “Keep it simple stupid.”
My takeaway from this whole Lawfare mess can be summed up as, “We object to President Trump being President.” When the citizens voted overwhelmingly to put him back in office, the only thing Lawfare could come back with is, “We strenuously object.”
It will be intersecting to watch this “Galactically stupid” group flail as this all plays out.
Of course. The hard drive is classified material. The sticker you put on it is the marking.
the words on the page are classified the cover sheet is both a classified marking and a classification marking……classification drawing the distinction between confidential secret and top secret
It is a weasel phrase much like “extremely careless” for “gross negligence”. And those guys get paid with our tax dollars to work against us.
That was awesome!
When this is all over and President Trump is able to pull in more legal votes than the illegal votes of the communists then let the investigations for treason begin against these traitors begin. To coin a phrase by one of these traitors, these kind cannot ever rise again. They have brought us to the brink of dissolution, expended our treasure of fine young men and women, and invasion by our enemies.
From your mouth to the Lord’s ears.
At what point will the criminals in the DOJ, FBI, heck illegitimate regime be removed, arrested, prosecuted and jailed for all they’ve done? It just makes me sick to think how far the expectations of honesty, truth, trust, morality and ethics in the justice system have fallen during my lifetime. There is no longer even a pretense of honesty and ethics with this regime.
Madison was right. If men were angels…
The “ongoing investigation” is the frame up, just as it was used during the Mueller Specious Counsel investigation of Russia-gate.
The crime of obstructing an “ongoing investigation” for something that was not a crime or never existed in the first place, is a novel frame-up tool invented by the Worms of LawFare.
Hiring Dubelier Remembered
The Special Counsel got caught in 2018 when Eric Dubelier, the Attorney for a Russian company [Concord] showed up in court after the company was charged with 2016 election interference.
The company did not exist at the time—2016. The attorney, Eric Dubelier, accused the the Special Counsel of creating a ‘make believe crime.’ Never expecting them to show up in court, Mueller/Weissmann dropped the case and buried the files.
DOJ, FBI and Homeland security are officially the 3 Stooges.
At the Gridiron Club’s annual white-tie gala, the Vice President disclosed the classified information regarding Dick Cheney’s infamous underground bunker beneath the Naval Observatory in D.C. In 2002, neighbors were complaining of “explosions” emanating from beneath Cheney’s home. In response, the Naval Observatory’s superintendent sent each a letter. “Due to its sensitive nature in support of national security and homeland defense, this project’s specific information is classified and cannot be released.” This memo also stressed, “the work was urgent and needed to be done on a highly accelerated schedule.”
Being Biden took over the residence he related to fellow diners (including journos) how a young naval tour guide “showed him the hideaway”. “The officer explained that when Cheney was in lockdown, this is where is most trusted aides were stationed.”
Heckled by pundits, Biden dismissed his statements by saying that he was actually referring to an “upstairs workspace” Cheney denied the hideaway but ordered Google to obscure his residence from maps, which they did.
After we download, screen grab or print these documents, it would be wise to contact the local FBI to ensure they are returned.
Great idea. Everyone send documents by mail at the same time. Demand a prompt DOJ response. Confirm that returning them ensures that we are not in violation of federal law for possessing copies of documents with classification markings.
a fulsome production
At last, a proper use of the word.
Definition of fulsome
foo͝l′səm
adjective
1. Excessively flattering or insincerely earnest. synonym: unctuous.
2. Disgusting or offensive.
3. Copious or abundant.
Gateway Pundit shared this CTH post
{ REVEALED: Merrick Garland and Jack Smith Used Linguistic Tricks to Indict President Trump on Junk Documents Charges }
Former Acting US Attorney General Matthew Whitaker: ‘End of the Republic Type of Situation’
https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/indictment-classified-documents/2023/06/10/id/1123098/
Sundance:
Sometimes I just want to hug you.
This is brilliant.
You da man!
Take care,
Buddy
See Nyt opinion piece June 9 “how to convict trump” by Eisen, Weismann , and a third person. discusses important concept of “graymail” and “classified info procedures act” . I am reading that .according to Wikipedia graymail can be used by defense in 2ways 1.”force govt to drop a case using threat that defendant will reveal classified info or 2. Defendant can request use of classified material as evidence at trial raising possibility that unreleased material might clear defendant making it difficult to prove guilt”. So the Nyt piece discusses issue of possibly avoiding disclosure of evidence to trump by claiming he cannot be trusted not to reveal it to the public. Graymail is used as a defense tactic to force govt to drop a case to avoid revealing national secrets. Graymail was used by Oliver north to get the most serious charges against him dismissed.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/09/opinion/trump-indictment-jack-smith.html?smid=em-share
There is no procedure for a President personally declassifying material. Any formal procedure is to enable others to access and share the declassified .aterial.
Classified markings and classified documents.
Two different meanings.
People that play video games all day and watch the fake news won’t know the difference nor care.
We are in an information war.
Biden/obama regime censors and hide information that is true just like they minapulate voter data.
Oh look! 👀👇
Georgetown Washington University better be worried. They have thousands of gov’t “classified documents” as outlined in the case by special prosecutor Jack Smith…..documents containing “classified markings”.
They even call it the “NSA Archive”. 👇
LINK: https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/
Sundance says….
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QUOTE:
”Once you understand how, you then understand one of the most overlooked nonsensical aspects to the insufferable DOJ and FBI case that has been pushed in the media for the past year.
The indictment accuses President Trump of withholding documents containing “classified markings,” a very specifically deployed obtuse wording intended to create the implication of something nefarious where nothing nefarious exists. It is entirely possible for a person, any person, especially a person who follows the news, to possess documents containing “classified markings.”
Does it matter that the Grand Jury subpoena clarified what was to be included in the “classified material” asking?
In my mind, you are not a ‘right wing website’. The old paradigms of right vs left are outdated and gone. As you always espouse, there is uniparty and non-unityparty. What is the enduring catchphrase for non-uniparty?
The overwhelming impression given off by the government’s persecutions is that a politicized Department of Justice has been weaponized for political purposes: in short, these “insurance policies” keep being taken out to destroy a particular outsider’s political chances through a series of show trials The persecution has been sustained and relentless, crudely and nakedly and blatantly political, leaving me to wonder what these Berias and Yezhovs think will remain of the country once the MAGA people and their champion are crushed beneath Merrick Garland’s dress shoes. Resentment and moral outrage die hard in people. I don’t see MAGA people moving on aftet the elimination of Trump and the illusions that were shattered along with him. Who will serve in the military in the years to come? Military service will be shunned and despised: do they plan to staff the Pentagon with mercenaries? Soviet tactics are easy to deploy: but who will want to be an American? Ecuadorians? It’s all well and good to place your foot on the necks of people, but try to get anything done while you’re doing it.
I strongly suggest that everyone who can access it take a listen to Robert Narnes cataloging the Constitutional problems with this indictment (Viva Frei will have that segment of this Sunday’s dialog up this week, probably by Monday, on YouTube). It is comprehensive and enlightening.
You use the word classified to obscure the fact that Trump took, kept, and hid Top Secret documents. And, lied about the whole thing.