U.S. Intelligence Positions Hong Kong as Proxy Conflict With China – Thankfully President Trump Sees Trap…

The situation in Hong Kong is a geopolitical dynamic that will likely become much more volatile in the next few weeks, months and/or years.  One constant in an ever-changing universe is how the UniParty in DC will attempt to drag the U.S. into the issues.

First, Hong Kong is China.  Whether a generation of people look back with regret to the time when Great Britain ceded the territory to Beijing is irrelevant.  China has, and will have, full control over Hong Kong; and that’s the way it is.  This will not be reversed.

Any effort for the people within Hong Kong to reverse the situation and escape the clutches of oppressive communism while retaining their liberty will only lead to massive bloodshed.

Unfortunately for Hong Kong, as President Trump decouples the U.S. economy from the duplicitous communist Chinese enterprise, Beijing will grasp more control over the heavily Western-influenced economic strata in/around Hong Kong.

Stand back and look at the bigger picture.  President Trump has neutralized, essentially made irrelevant, Beijing’s use of their proxy province, North Korea.  President Trump has embraced Kim Jong-un, not as much out of a position of warmth – but rather as a tactic to block China from weaponizing the DPRK as leverage during the U.S-China trade confrontation.

Beijing still uses their influence to shoot rockets, test missiles etc and president Trump ignores it now.  Why?  Because North Korea already has nuclear missiles; they’re the same nuclear missiles China has… and it is silly now to think China will remove their nuclear missiles to gain an economic benefit.

If U.S. policy isn’t trying to remove nuclear weapons from China, then why would U.S. policy try to remove nuclear weapons from the DPRK.?  They’re the same nukes.

Losing their DPRK leverage, and understanding Beijing has no direct tools to defeat the U.S. in an direct economic confrontation, means China will look elsewhere. That’s where Hong Kong comes into play.

[Always remember, despite the U.S. tariffs on China, there are no tariffs on Hong Kong]

Do we feel sympathy watching a once free society slip into the grips of an oppressive and totalitarian system now ruled by a communist dictator for life in Chairman Xi Jinping?  Sure we do.  But they made these choices decades ago… now they have the consequences.

If Hong Kong tries to resist Beijing, they will be crushed.  Hundreds more will be arrested and disappeared.  Thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, will be killed.  There is already a ongoing flight of wealth out of Hong Kong as the smart and wealthy position their assets overseas to survive the arrival of Beijing’s storm troopers.

The future for Hong Kong is dark.  It is not going to end in anything resembling what exists today.  Hong Kong will be Beijing 2.0, and will be entirely dominated by Chinese authoritarian rule.  The difference in 2019 is the speed at which it is happening.

Things are speeding up now in direct proportion to the severity of the U.S. decoupling our economy from China.   As the Chinese economy weakens, Beijing will get more desperate.

Many voices around President Trump will cry out for intervention.  The UniParty will demand intervention and decry President Trump’s instinct to stay away from the self-made crisis.

It is not our issue; and engaging in Hong Kong only opens up another pathway for China to play the duplicitous leverage game…. Beijing will play the “we’ll spare, delay, or dilute the Hong Kong absorption, if you agree to our trade terms” game. [lies, lies, lies]

President Trump needs to engage with China and Hong Kong as one nation, under one rule, with one motive and intent.   Trying to win a Chinese trade conflict while parsing the economy of China from the economy of Hong Kong, is like trying to parse the nukes in China from the nukes in North Korea.

Hong Kong is lost.  Hong Kong belongs to China.  Thousands of Hong Kongers will be killed or disappeared into camps as Beijing absorbs the region.  The U.S. cannot continue to engage globally in an effort to protect nations from the consequences of their own decisions.

If Great Britain wants to send an armada of battle ships to warn Beijing against aggression with Hong Kong, then we should support.  Wait… wha?  Oh, Great Britain no longer has a Navy because the high-minded EU collective wanted to hold hands and sing ‘we-are-the-world’ instead of planning to defend its interests for the past twenty years….  I digress.

Hong Kong is not our issue.

The CIA will try to make it our issue.  The State Department will try to make it our issue.  The UniParty in DC will try to make it our issue.  John Bolton will try to make it our issue. Activists in Hong Kong will try to make it our issue.  All of the far-left globalists will try to make it our issue….  Nancy Pelosi and Mitt Romney will try to make it our issue; but it’s not our issue.

We pray for peace and send our prayers, but we cannot succeed in the larger economic confrontation with cunning China if we attempt to ignore the direct connective tissue between Beijing and Hong Kong.

Instead, start applying the Chinese tariffs on Hong Kong as soon as Beijing tanks arrive.

Tough love.

 

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416 Responses to U.S. Intelligence Positions Hong Kong as Proxy Conflict With China – Thankfully President Trump Sees Trap…

  1. BobBoxBody says:

    Under Trump, we’re not playing Team America: World Police any longer…

    Liked by 2 people

    • Publius2016 says:

      45 understands that Hong Kong is a cash cow to China…if they slaughter it, they are cutting their own nose to spite their own face!

      Liked by 8 people

      • GLOBAL CONSEQUENCES:

        China abrogating their Agreement with HK sets a PRECEDENT:
        Deals with China are NUL and VOID:

        • NO nation with a Belt-and-Road Deal need honor it.

        • ANY nation can EVICT China’s Economic Looters.

        … So long as they have a MUTUAL DEFENSE PACT with the USA. 😎
        • That starts with a RECIPROCAL Bilateral Trade Deal.
        • That requires ELIMINATION of USA Trade Deficits.
        • That commits to IMPORTS of USA Agriculture and Energy.
        • That bans Chinese 5g and IT INFRASTRUCTURE.
        • That includes FUNDING for USA Bases and Defense Support.
        • That covers COSTS for USA Shipping Escorts.

        Liked by 5 people

      • Indeed, and if China takes control of HK, and PDJT doesn’t immediately slap the same tarriffs on them, it’s seems obviius that China would begin funneling their exports through there.

        Liked by 3 people

  2. TwoLaine says:

    It is good that the young ones will see what China is REALLY like. Everyone thinks it’s so cool. Why on earth would we want to stop their decades-long trade war with us?

    Now you will know. This is why you don’t want to move your business to China. Open a business in China. Watch what they will do to crush their own people in Hong Kong. They are thieves, bullies and murderers, nothing more.

    Mr. Wonderful on why he pulled his business out of China and more…

    Liked by 4 people

    • Moe Grimm says:

      The “young ones” in Hong Kong already know what life is like under communism. The youngest have learned it from their parents and grandparents who know real hardship. The very young learn from an academic system that teaches the truth of world history and their own – unlike here. More the very youngest citizens of HK respect their wisdom. Also, for he most part, UNLIKE here. Think this generation in HK is spoiled, self-aggrandized, and slovenly like here/ They’re not. I’ve been there several times.

      Liked by 2 people

    • solomonpal says:

      They are predatory. They want everything to their advantage .

      Liked by 3 people

    • GB Bari says:

      Excellent interview. The host, Nick Gillespie, is blatantly anti-Trump and is IMO a live caricature of all the Leftwing MSM’s negative narrative about our President.

      OTOH Kevin O’Leary seems to have a *very realistic* view of PDJT and it is also refreshing and edifying to hear his candid opinions on the benefits of capitalism (vs socialism), which is the overall topic of the interview.

      Liked by 2 people

      • littleanniefannie says:

        Gillespie has as much “reason” in his questioning as a 3 year old that wants only cookies and ice cream for supper. His company should be called Excuse, not reason. He was looking for any excuse to trash President Trump. Kevin wasn’t biting!!

        Liked by 2 people

      • TwoLaine says:

        I stopped watching Shark Tank because of the nasty idiot Mark Cuban, who seems to have fallen off the face of the earth now that President TRUMP has proven him wrong on everything.

        This video kept showing up in my youtube suggestions and I kept ignoring it. One day it ended up in auto-play. Once I started listening I couldn’t stop and I was very pleasantly surprised.

        Yes, the host is an absolute uneducated idiot, to put it kindly.

        Liked by 1 person

    • littleanniefannie says:

      Is this guy interviewing Mr. Wonderful Jim Acosta in costume? Trump is racist, Trump is sexist, etc. Get off it idiot.
      As to the millennials are Socialists now, they will grow up and gain sanity by 30!

      Liked by 2 people

  3. mtkennedy21 says:

    A friend of mine from Hong Kong, back about 1997 when then turnover was underway, told me that his family and all the other wealthy Hong Kong residents had bought first class airline tickets for the West. They would keep them and turn them over for new tickets each year so that, when the day came, they would have valid tickets and could leave while others were trying to buy them. THose families also sent children to Canada and California.

    Liked by 1 person

    • BoreMole says:

      Unless the airport closes….

      Liked by 2 people

    • wondering999 says:

      Remember years ago, reading an article about very young (like 12 years old) students, home alone in Canada. Their parents had gotten them to Canada and enrolled them in schools, and then had to leave the kids in apartments alone to fend for themselves. (A different version of “Home Alone”; the kids were trying to survive without their parents who had to keep working in HK)

      Many of the kids had become fluent in five languages. Their families were trying to help them survive the HK handover, but it was a brutal challenge for everyone. By now these children would be grown. I hope most of them have survived well. What a nightmare challenge.

      I have heard stories from Russian WWII survivors who had to do something similar, but in their own country; the kids would be sent East on trains into Siberia in hopes they would survive. I have met some of the survivors but how difficult would it be to leave your parents behind and travel to (relative) safety?

      Like

  4. Heika says:

    Hmm… a steady hand is needed now. Trump is shaping up well in that regard.

    Peter Theil is right. Google (full of ‘woke’ ,misled globalists) is aiding China against US, and should be investigated https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-13/thiel-globalist-google-bed-chinese-military-must-be-investigated-fbicia

    Liked by 8 people

  5. dufrst says:

    I absolutely agree with Sundance’s assessment here and was thinking the same. That China could use Hong Kong as leverage in the trade negotiations and Trump is keen to that and won’t bite! Trump relieved China of the 10% until December out of self interest (2020. KAG!) and to see if China would for once keep its word on the agricultural buys they said they would do. The negotiations will continue until December and if nothing comes of it then, Trump will drop the 25% tariff hammer on all Chinese export.

    Another thing is true with what Sundance said about Hong Kong. It’s an open port city. No tariff duties. Hong Kong does a massive amount of re-export business with China to get those goods into other countries duty free. In fact, the amount of that type of trade far exceeds Hong Kong’s GDP by almost 2 times! Trump can again use economic power as Sundance surmised to leave China in a lurch. Roll the tanks in and face heavy tariffs on all goods out of Hong Kong. That would plug a big loophole in Trump’s tariff program against China (the other is Vietnam).

    China has never faced an adversary like Donald Trump. He has them over a barrel! They want to make a deal, but being the billionaire business man that he is, Trump rather likes collecting almost $60 billion of tariffs (so far), while not having to pay anything because China devalues their currency (which increases the cost of their imports like oil) and subsidize their industries.

    Trump may have a strategic plan for Hong Kong after all. Reverse the exfiltration of US wealth by China and begin to bleed China dry with tariffs, which increase the costs of buying key commodities abroad and causes big unsustainable costs to their treasury in propping up their export driven economic model.

    Taking that all together and you begin to see the rising toll all of that will have on China over the next 3 to 5 years. In the end, if that continues, Hong Kong and the rest of China for that matter, may end up free as the Communist state collapses.

    Liked by 14 people

    • bessie2003 says:

      Part of my question, on the President relieving the 10% on the tariffs until December 15th, the press says it is to help businesses with this years Christmas season, but I truly wonder if it is more a move to give U.S, businesses and investors who are heavily into China more time to move their businesses out of China, especially those who are heavy into the KH banking entities, since I imagine, when China makes its heavy handed move into HK that China will also nationalize all the HK banks and investment firms,

      and by the President granting a relief in the time frame it takes some pressure of of U.S. businesses already in the process of moving out of China, as in, not making then an extra target for the Dragons claws and teeth.

      Liked by 6 people

  6. Publius2016 says:

    overnight Hong Kong has gone from 1 of the top 10 major cities to Baltimore level for investment…Communist China must think clearly because trillions are at stake..Hong Kong controls asian currency markets due to centuries of drug and commercial trade…

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Mncpo(ret) says:

    My heart may hurt for the people of Hong Kong but it’s their fight and it’s a losing battle. It is a replay of the earlier crack down. What changed from that-nothing. Politburo still in control.

    We don’t have a dog in this fight.

    Let them do what they’re going to do. Get shamed by the world for the violence. Like they care.

    The ONLY option we have is economic and we’re playing that game well.

    Liked by 6 people

  8. meadowlarkspring says:

    Pres. Trump cuts right to the chase with President Xi and others. Don’t blame President Trump or the US for what is going on in Hong Kong. Much better than being defensive like President Obama was.

    Obama: U.S. Was Not Involved in Hong Kong Protests
    The president said the U.S. did not fuel the pro-democracy demonstrations.

    By Teresa Welsh, Staff Writer Nov. 12, 2014

    https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/11/12/obama-tells-beijing-us-had-no-role-in-hong-kong-protests

    -snip-

    Obama is in China for bilateral meetings with President Xi Jinping following the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperation summit and said in a press conference that he discussed Hong Kong with the Chinese leader in their private meetings.

    “I was unequivocal in saying to President Xi that the United States had no involvement in fostering the protests that took place there; that these are issues ultimately for the people of Hong Kong and the people of China to decide,” Obama said.

    -snip-

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Zippy says:

    United States–Hong Kong Policy Act

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93Hong_Kong_Policy_Act

    The United States–Hong Kong Policy Act or more commonly known as the Hong Kong Policy Act (P.L. no. 102-383m 106 Stat. 1448) is a 1992 act enacted by the United States Congress. It allows the United States to continue to treat Hong Kong separately from Mainland China for matters concerning trade export and economics control after the 1997 handover.[1]

    The act states that Hong Kong maintains its own export control system as long as it adapts to international standards. The act also pertains to “sensitive technologies”, which require Hong Kong to protect the technologies from improper use.[1]

    China is displeased with the act. Beijing made it clear that the act was interpreted as American interference in Chinese domestic affairs.[3]

    Most notable is Tung Chee-hwa countering the generally negative image of Hong Kong under Communist Party rule. He condemned then-Democratic Party chairman and leader of the pro-democracy camp Martin Lee who supported the act, and said Lee was “bad mouthing” the Special Administrative Region in front of the international audience.[3]

    Liked by 1 person

    • El Torito says:

      Agree with ending the US-HK Policy Act. We KNOW China is thinking economic relief via pass-through exporting via HK. Especially with Sundance so explicitly declaring HK as owned by China. Keep their coats!

      Liked by 1 person

  10. C-Low says:

    Maybe Trump should issue them a Cuba type exemption for immigration while tagging onto that bill the border wall funding. I would trade thousands of well educated capitalist HonKongers for a bunch of failed uneducated migrant workers any day. Not to mention the money transfers the rich ones would make (a exemption would seal their choice vs EU which would be a tough citizenship battle especially with China leaning on their govs).

    It would be fun to watch dems complain because they will go west coast and not be dem Socialist voters, and watch China show their colors forced to go ole Soviet trying to contain a fleeing educated population.

    Liked by 2 people

    • BoreMole says:

      This is a fantastic idea. Issue a general amnesty for any HK citizen, and any money they transfer in is tax exempt. BOOM

      Liked by 1 person

      • 🍺Gunny66 says:

        And as I stated earlier.
        Who do you think the Chinese will allow to leave Hong Kong?

        The rich people? No……
        The poor people?…….. No….

        How about they only let the criminals leave?…..Yes

        It is the same as with not getting into every conflict that arises in the world.
        We also cannot be taking in all these people from every country in the world.

        I have seen it posted that we could take in “all those smart Chinese”

        Do you know who has won the World Wide High School Math competition for the last two years?

        China?…….nope

        The United States…..look it up

        We don’t need to bring all these people into our country and “Support” them.

        Yes…..we can be the “ Shining Light on the Hill”

        But you need a ticket to get in.

        Liked by 10 people

        • BoreMole says:

          The crackdown has not nearly gotten bad enough that those with the means could not opt to leave NOW. We will know when that’s no longer possible. That said, the longer we wait, the more likely your scenario becomes real of the Chicoms exerting control and controlling who they send. We have a limited amount of time.

          Further, I work in HK regularly (not lately, obviously) and have a lot of friends there – I think perhaps you misunderstand the nature of the population. It is not the destitute cabbage farmer, poor, uneducated masses by the millions you perceive came from Cuba in the intervening decades after the commies took over there, or the billion or so mainland Chinese who can barely read or write. HK is a first world city controlling significant commerce globally and with heavily educated talent. Not sure what the relevance is of who won a math contest….

          What you would do is drain some money and power away from HK/China into the US, which is part of the ongoing objective PT has anyway. uniformly not a bad thing.

          Just relax. No one here is suggesting we go to war, and there are no secret neocon agents lurking to corrupt the CTH. I am not particularly bothered by legal immigration that prioritizes those people and skills that benefit us the most. At some point we will want to remember what it was like to have a rational policy in that regard.

          Liked by 1 person

        • BitterC says:

          Agree. East is East and West is West. Just look at Asia. Is there any successful democracy to speak of?

          Culture matters.

          We need to be preparing for an onslaught of Europeans fleeing their islamicized lands in the coming years

          Like

    • trialbytruth says:

      C-low

      Rethink that please what is the population of Hong Kong and can we afford China to do what Castro did and empty it’s prisons.

      Liked by 6 people

    • Bingo. A hundred upvotes.

      Like

    • SharonKinDC says:

      Of course, there would be loads of CCP supporting spies in those ‘refugees’. Not saying ‘no’, just saying doing this would have its own set of problems.

      Liked by 4 people

  11. dustahl says:

    Agree, U.S. should not get involved. Yet, Hong Kong could become a movement that over turns
    communism in China, Far Fetched, maybe, but if the economy of China crumbles, maybe not so far fetched.

    Liked by 4 people

  12. appraisher says:

    Cautionary Tale (as well as Venezuela) to all Americans that are thinking about voting democrat in 2020. THIS is what happens to you when the government owns you.

    Liked by 2 people

  13. Bork man says:

    Let’s watch it play out in the south china sea ,HK will be harvested like fulon gong ,but the south china sea s that’s where will see some cock fights ,

    https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/US-aircraft-carrier-drops-anchor-in-Manila-to-send-China-message

    Liked by 2 people

  14. William H Gilkerson says:

    I guess Kyle Bass has some dinero in China. Used to like Kyle but now, not so much.

    Liked by 4 people

    • willthesuevi says:

      Yep, just like Scaramucci. He has all kinds of investment tied to China. Why do you think he turned on POTUS recently. So damn transparent. No more American blood for poor business decisions from the investment class.

      Liked by 5 people

      • Snow Patrol says:

        Fellow Treepers, Please Note: Bass is SHORT China. He is betting against China. That is what being short means. I have been following Bass for years. He is brilliant, and he is nothing like the Mooch. I wish more folks here would do their homework before pontificating. He will profit more if China becomes worse off. He wants Trump to take a tougher stance on Hong Kong, just as he has against China, and he is betting that he will. His approach is in line with Sundance’s thinking. Got it? Great. Thank you. As you were.

        Like

        • willthesuevi says:

          “Kyle Bass

          “Verified account

          @Jkylebass
          9h9 hours ago
          More Kyle Bass Retweeted Nancy Pelosi
          Nancy Pelosi has this figured out and so does Elizabeth Warren. President Trump, you had better be forceful in your response. @realDonaldTrump Do you really care? Show us all what you think about the police brutality in HK. ”

          Ya, OK. Anyone who wants our President to take a cue from Pelosi and Warren on financial and diplomatic matters, is not someone who I want to follow.

          Thanks anyway and I will be however I want to be.

          Liked by 6 people

          • Snow Patrol says:

            Well, I have to agree with you there. He should shut his mouth, and let the market and his investments play out. I did not realize that he was tweeting this.

            Liked by 1 person

            • willthesuevi says:

              And I will admit that the only research I had done on KB was right before I posted. Don’t know him, not my world. I did go to his twitter account and read through it, when I got to the Pelosi quote I was done.

              I did not see that he was shorting China, I will admit I was making a hasty remark. I am jaded towards any Pelosi admiration and can be quite closed minded towards anyone liking anything she does.

              Truce.

              Liked by 3 people

              • Snow Patrol says:

                Truce accepted. He is not a Pelosi admirer per se. He is a hedgie who wants to maximize profits. He knows that if Trump comes down hard on Hong Kong, his investments will soar. But, aligning himself with Pelsoi, even temporarily to accomplish his ends, is stupid. He lost a lot of admiration from me today.

                Liked by 3 people

              • fightthepols says:

                I can’t believe all these people think Pelosi is some expert and the person who should be giving Donald Trump advice- she is a longtime leftist. She may be more moderate than these new extremists in the house, but she is left.

                Like

            • Kudos, SP, on the walkback. Some of the posters here are ringers, and know their stuff better than anywhere else I’ve seen.

              Liked by 1 person

        • Arrest Soros says:

          Any proxy clash in HK will benefit those who shorted China.
          Investments don’t like military clashes.
          Bass is urging POTUS to get in to a proxy battle in HK.
          So that Bass’s bets gain bigly.
          Bass can go get f….

          Like

    • didyousee says:

      You realize his only investments in China/HK have been short not long correct?

      Like

      • Arrest Soros says:

        Any proxy clash in HK will benefit those who shorted China.
        Investments don’t like military clashes.
        Bass is urging POTUS to get in to a proxy battle in HK.
        So that Bass’s bets gain bigly.
        Bass can go get f….

        Like

  15. albertus magnus says:

    God bless you, Sundance. You are right as usual!

    Like

  16. Niagara Frontier says:

    I hope the young socialist and communist wannabees in the United States are watching these events unfold. This is your future if you don’t wake up and pay attention.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Publius2016 says:

    “Using Taiwan as a bargaining chip in our economic relationship with China plays right into Beijing’s hands and only leaves Taiwan more vulnerable to Chinese coercion,” said Kelly E. Magsamen, the Pentagon’s top Asia-Pacific policy official at the end of the Obama administration. “It’s Taipei’s worst nightmare. It means they could be on the table in bigger ways.”

    Taiwan has an aging fleet of F-16s, and had asked to buy new ones more than a decade ago. Neither President George W. Bush nor President Barack Obama approved the sales, but the Obama administration decided in 2011 to refurbish Taiwan’s existing fleet. At the time, Senator John Cornyn, Republican of Texas, where the F-16s were made, said Mr. Obama’s decision marked “a sad day in American foreign policy.”

    Problem for many years now…

    Liked by 2 people

  18. Publius2016 says:

    Deep State are “hawks” with China and Russia?

    Like

  19. willthesuevi says:

    Outstanding analysis again Sundance.

    Like almost every other American I talk to, I am so very tired of being the worlds policeman.

    When President Trump recently stepped back, during the Strait of Hormuz incident and pretty much forced the Europeans to step up and protect their own shipping, I knew he had the ability to tell Bolton and his buddies NO.

    The current threat of China militarily is essentially limited to their immediate vicinity. Their Navy and Air Force would struggle against our WW II Navy and Air Force. Sure they have a bazillion military personnel. Those soldiers cannot really go anywhere except where they can walk or ride. If they started to really move massive numbers of personnel across the ocean they would be sitting ducks, and they know it.

    Let’s sit a few of these out for a bit. Strengthen our own military and give our people a much needed rest. How about not making the same mistake England, the Netherlands, Napoleonic France, and Hitler made.

    Liked by 7 people

    • Perot Conservative says:

      Correct. And get out of Afghanistan.

      Second, Germany doesn’t up their NATO contribution significantly, reposition troops elsewhere on Europe. Poland, Czech Republic, etc.

      Liked by 9 people

      • SharonKinDC says:

        Spread the bases around the Visegrad Group. The Visegrád Group, Visegrád Four, or V4, is a cultural and political alliance of four Central European states – the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and Slovakia, that are members of the European Union (EU) and NATO – for the purposes of advancing military, cultural, economic and energy cooperation with one another …
        Visegrád Group – Wikipedia

        Liked by 4 people

  20. DiogenesVindicated says:

    I think leveling the tariffs on HK ASAP makes sense, but man oh man will the Uniparty scream. Devalue the target.

    Liked by 2 people

  21. Rather, Not says:

    The key is to remove the special status HK has because it is supposedly independent. Xi has invaded HK, and PRC’s official position is that the ‘Joint Declaration’ is dead letter (no relevance after handover) we should recognize that immediately by removing the special advantages HK has relative to China, especially the separate trade and banking relationships that depend on HK’s defunct independence. Don’t let the PRC play what they called the ‘three legged stool game’ during the original negotiations in the 80’s.

    Liked by 3 people

  22. Suzanne says:

    The left/uniparty/globalists et al want us in a war before the election not because they give a rats azz about Hong but because they consider it a tool to prevent PDJT from getting re-elected. I hate them with the fire of 1000 suns.

    Liked by 8 people

  23. ristvan says:

    As said on a previous thread, China has no good options re Hong Kong. Hong Kong cash cow industries finance and brokered trade can easily move out to Singpore or Taiwan if China intervenes militarily. But if they don’t, Politbureau loses face and control.

    Liked by 8 people

  24. Perot Conservative says:

    Step 1: Pass USMCA

    Step 2a: sign deals with the UK and Japan

    Step 2b: hammers cone down … on Vietnam, India, the EU, Hong Kong, China?

    I’m assuming with our partial pull back on new tariffs, Xi saves face, and China makes some large ag purchases?

    Liked by 1 person

  25. lfhbrave says:

    “Hong Kong is not our issue”.
    Brilliant. Sad but true.

    Liked by 3 people

  26. OlderAndWiser says:

    I’d like to make some historical corrections:
    1) Hong Kong was always a part of China.
    2) The Chinese LEASED Hong Kong to Britain for 100 years in the nineteenth century.
    3) When the lease expired (1997?) the Chinese government agreed to let Hong Kong keep its own currency and its own government for another 50 years.

    So, even though Hong Kong is “owned” by mainland China, the agreement is that it is to have self government and its currency (HK Dollar).

    The trouble started when mainland China wanted to extradite prisoners from HK to mainland China – thus freaking out current HK residents who thought they had another 25-30 years left of freedom.

    Most Hong Kong Chinese are capitalist types who love the west.

    Liked by 2 people

  27. bacillus says:

    The first and last questions regarding HK should be; What’s in the best interest of the US? The old “making the world safe for democracy mantra” can no long cover our loses here and now in nearly Q2 of the 21st century. Not that it ever could / did if you look back objectively over the past 75 years.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Baby El says:

      Exactly Bacillus – People forgot that the world was a pretty rough place before the rise of the U.S. We’ve given them peace and they’ve treated us like suckers for it.

      Liked by 4 people

  28. jimboct says:

    VSGPDJT won’t fall for IC disinformation like his predecessors have.
    China’s biggest problem is if they treat Hong Kong like mainland China then VSGPDJT will treat Hong Kong like mainland China (think tariffs). Right now, China needs a tariff free Hong Kong so they can keep up the hard currency influx. China’s intentional weakening of the Yuan allows China to dump goods on the international market to the detriment of their economy if tariffs cut those sales.
    If the UK wants Hong Kong back, go for it. Not our fight.
    Hong Kong is not Taiwan. Completely different set of circumstances.

    Liked by 3 people

  29. mtk says:

    The geopolitical reality…
    The terms of the HK/UK-PRC transfer, the Joint Declaration reached was always built on a fifty year window of China guaranteeing Hong Kong’s independence.

    Here are the actual words…

    In accordance with the “One country, two systems” principle agreed between the United Kingdom and the People’s Republic of China, the socialist system of the People’s Republic of China would not be practised in the Hong Kong Special Administrative Region (HKSAR), and Hong Kong’s previous capitalist system and its way of life would remain unchanged for a period of 50 years.

    This would have left Hong Kong unchanged until 2047. We’re twenty-two years into the fifty year count down.

    It is just the facts(or as Biden would say truths).

    I am not going to add to them one way or the other on the leverages this entails with the current protests; and, “How they are resolved?”

    Like

  30. thebigharry says:

    Watch this and tell me it isn’t staged, the photographers directing security towards the end is the give away.

    The purpose of course is to justify the heavy handed crack down.

    Liked by 1 person

    • thebigharry says:

      And the Telegraph pushes the edited version.

      Liked by 1 person

      • ann says:

        Harry, your ability to read the actions & tactics is way over my head.
        Four replays later: my only takeaway is Mobs are SCARY.
        Desparate & depersonalised people don’t think. ,
        But the fact is Hong Kong belongs to China, the agreement’s date was no mystery.

        To refuse reclamation is a bit like magical thinking.

        Post election when Lynch’s Resist appallingly, took over my city, our civic forums, I felt a coward, skulking at home, so planned to go forth to defend the election.
        My LE friends explained what it’s like inside a riot.
        exposed officers, and as was made clear, me, can be torn limb to limb, etc,

        maybe the officer had rubber bullets,

        I don’t know.

        Like

  31. California Joe says:

    On December 8th 1941 Japanese troops based across the border in China launched a massive invasion of Hong Kong. British forces numbering around 12,000 included Canadian reinforcements recently arrived from Vancouver fought a brave but futile battle for three weeks without any air or naval support other than a few obsolete scout plans and surrendered on Christmas Day.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Graham Pink says:

    Stick to it Donald.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. Zippy says:

    “But they made these choices decades ago…”

    The UK had a 99 year lease on Hong Kong which expired.

    China’s promise of 50 years of no change under “one country, two systems” expires in 2047, but their extrajudicial extradition (rendition) law is what the riots are all about. So, China fails to keep for the umpteenth time their side of an agreement.

    China can NEVER be trusted to comply with ANY agreements. HK is just further proof of that.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Zippy says:

      “Nearly two months after Lam shelved the hated extradition bill that sparked the protest movement, the protesters still have yet to see their demands met, according to the UK Guardian: The ‘full withdrawal’ of the extradition bill, an independent investigation into the police’s use of force at the demonstrations, and the introduction of ‘genuine universal suffrage’.”

      Like

  34. Graham Pink says:

    Americans don’t eat dog.
    No time to start now.

    Like

  35. rmhnc says:

    Sundance, I was so upset over the plight of the people of Hong Kong until I read your words. I’m still praying for a miracle over there, but you’ve given me a more realistic view of the situation, and I’m grateful for that.

    Liked by 4 people

  36. litlbit2 says:

    Will be a great lesson, repeated for those that do not understand what will happen if the Obama/Soros/Gope/DNC/Hillary’s/Liberal concept of freedom were allowed to consume the USA.

    As we again watch first watch hidden socialism of Hong Kong become Havana, Venezuela, Iran, Chicago, California, Baltimore! Freedom greatly reduced everything for the party they know best.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. palafox says:

    Sundance’s article: so, so very true. And the obvious analogy if America ever votes in socialism is chilling.

    But Hong Kong — stop waving Old Glory. Great Britain made you; Great Britain abandoned you. Wave the Union Jack and ask those people to come to your aid.

    Liked by 3 people

    • MaineCoon says:

      See the Hong Kong millenail video I posted downthread. They fly our flag because they relate to USA – Not UK. I too posted UK should publicly post any part of the 1997 Agreement which supports Hong Kong, but they won’t. UK is gone. Weak. Nothing left.

      They want what USA has not what UK projects. Watch the video.

      Like

  38. Deplorable_Vespucciland says:

    There was some sort of 50-year transition agreement signed in 1998 which assured a long slow handover of complete control to Peking. Twenty years later it appears as though China is speeding things up ahead of schedule.

    So yes, Chinese tariffs should apply to Hong Kong
    once mainland troops appear on the streets there.

    Liked by 1 person

  39. AccountabilityPlease says:

    Maybe now globalists will understand that totalitarian regimes don’t just go away if you pretend they don’t exist. I hope this also instructs millennials on the socialist end game – the surrender of individual liberties.

    Liked by 4 people

  40. Vaquero says:

    Two weeks after the President announced the imposition of a 10% tariff on some $300 billion of Chinese goods, he backtracks and today announces that the tariff will be delayed on a host of tech products until December 15. That hardly sounds like a decoupling from China as the article suggests.

    Indeed, the timing–in face of China’s increasing heavy response to the protestors–suggests the President will look the other way as China’s protest response becomes more oppressive.

    We buy 5 times from China what they purchase from us. The time for increased tariffs is now, not December 15.

    Like

  41. MaineCoon says:

    This video went viral during the campaign. It was created by a young Honk Kong millenial and encapsulates how the HKG youth love President Trump and his message. This is why they are flying our flag.

    Watch until the end.

    Liked by 1 person

  42. Mac says:

    The problems in Hong Kong are the direct result of the realignment of trade going on between the US and China. China is not the communist country that many people thank that it is. China is run by an oligarchy composed of very wealthy business people, who depend upon the traditional US/China trade relationship to maintain their position, power and wealth. When the US began to change that, these people’s positions were negatively affected. Now, Hong Kong, due to the arranged relationship with the Chinese government, is benefiting from the trade realignment. And, the econocrats who run China are increasing their control over those in Hong Kong. The residents of Hong Kong are pushing back.

    Now, this is an internal political problem of the Chinese. It is not something which the US should get involved in. Whether Hong Kong is absorbed into the rest of China in one year or 28, is irrelevant to us.

    Liked by 2 people

  43. Leaving says:

    Thank you, Sundance.

    In the past, one may have been convinced intervention was the right choice.

    You make a strong case against intervention.

    Like

  44. Zippy says:

    One advantage the HKs have this time, Tiananmen Square was easy for China to hide, something similar in HK will not be.

    Like

  45. USA First! says:

    “ The UniParty in DC will try to make it our issue. John Bolton will try to make it our issue. “

    I’m glad I’m not the only one that recognizes Bolton is and has ALWAYS been a warmonger.

    Like

  46. Steven Andros says:

    Instead of flooding our nation with “entitled” uneducated people who are just here for the bennies secretly despise us, and have absolutely NO intention to assimilate, let’s invite American flag waiving HK folks to come over – without limits.

    Then again, these well educated America loving people may not be reliable democrats party voters, so……never mind.

    Like

    • wondering999 says:

      Stephen Andros, do you speak Chinese? And how much vetting has been going on at the borders NOW? PRC could flood us with “refugees” while they discreetly murder dissidents. Our government officials would not be able to tell the difference.

      There is also such a thing as a literal “false flag”.

      I am horrified by what is going on, but logic, not emotion, must prevail. What can we do to help these trapped people in HK? I don’t know, and we should be racking our brains for solutions — but not become simple-minded in the process either

      Like

  47. KnowSERENoFear says:

    I can’t remember a time in which I was so unequivocally in violent agreement with Sundance. You nailed it Sir!!!! Hong Kong is an outrage trap…pure and simple.

    Liked by 1 person

  48. Timmy-the-Ute says:

    I am also reluctant of getting involved military in China’s internal affairs. But when the Hong Kong protesters wave the American Flags, that has nothing to do with a UniParty effort to get us involved in a war.

    Like

  49. GGHD says:

    Many people here, that hate the USA, and consider our >good Military Personnel as >expendables and a ‘basket of deporables’ ~> will want Trump to do >something, like maybe threaten Military Force against China. [Somehow without really meaning it.]

    From TheConservativeTreeHouse article:
    “If Great Britain wants to send an armada of battle ships to warn Beijing against aggression with Hong Kong, then we should support. Wait… wha? Oh, Great Britain no longer has a Navy because the high-minded EU collective wanted to hold hands and sing ‘we-are-the-world’ instead of planning to defend its interests for the past twenty years…. I digress.”
    …….. (Me) = President Trump has asked NATO members to financially support the defense of Europe, as was agreed upon. Many European Nations still do NOT honor the original agreement.
    *****
    Here’s the list of the top contributors to the >personnel of the United Nation Peacekeeping Force. =
    Ethiopia (8,326), India (7,471), Pakistan (7,161), Bangladesh (6,772), Rwanda (6,146), Nepal (5,131), Senegal (3,617), Burkina Faso (3,036), Ghana (2,972), Egypt (2,889), Indonesia (2,867),
    +AT NUMBER 12. ~>China (2,639).
    [The UN has 100,000 Peacekeepers. +As of 2017, the USMC (US Marines) has around 186,000 active duty members and some 38,500 personnel in reserve. It is the >smallest U.S. military service within the DoD. ~ Internet]

    The Top 10 countries funding the UN peacekeeping budget are:
    United States (28.57%), +AT NUMBER 2. ~>China (10.29%), Japan (9.68%), Germany (6.39%), France (6.31%), United Kingdom (5.80%), Russian Federation (4.01%), Italy (3.75%), Canada (2.92%), Spain (2.44%).
    [From Internet ~bestdelegate with 2016 latest figures.
    ************ ***************************************************
    Maybe, someone is actively misinforming the protesters in Hong Kong about the possible intervention by the United States? The options seem to be 1. Nuclear Bombs, 2. Land War in China, 3. Increasing Tariffs by USA, or a 4. Complete Trade Embargo on China by members of the United Nations.
    Unfortunately, the protesters in Hong Kong are between a Rock and a Hard Place.
    >They need our ~>prayers.

    It seems, almost all of the Democrats in contention for the Presidential Nomination have made a political career, out of constantly scolding the USA and many of our citizens. Maybe, after Trump is re-elected in 2020, he could ask the Democrat Nominee to be the one >scolding China constantly at the United Nations.
    This is a serious matter. >The protesters act like they have been misled about the options available to the USA. Would the Democrats be willing to >pray for the protesters?

    Liked by 1 person

    • ann says:

      “Maybe someone is actively misinforming the protestors in Hong Kong about the possible intervention by the US”. > “The protestors act like they’ve been misinformed…”

      Salient observation, GGHD, of internal entities that “Resist” the American people’s agenda! ✅

      Liked by 1 person

  50. A2 says:

    This is a strawman’s argument. The US is not involved, nor cannot be involved in HK affairs except for the guarantees the US made under the Hong Kong Policy Act. This clearly spelled out the US policy and supports the internationally recognised by the UN member states the Sino-British Treaty, and that is enshrined in the Basic Law. The 50 years and no change to HK society, laws and governance, and all agreements with international covenants that HK was a party to prior to the treaty signed by China and Britain. China has obligations it has now seen fit under Xi Mao 2.O to effectively abrogate. That just underscores who he is,

    Everyone should read the US Hong Kong Policy Act. Unless you think the US act like China and just treat it as waste paper. If the US wants to rescind or amend the Act, congress and the President may do so. It may not rescind the Sino-British Treaty that is For Britain and the UN member states to take up. So the US only may make a stand if it comes to any UN deliberations.

    The argument that the CIA is involved in the situation is only made by the PRC and its running dogs like Russia, Iran, NK . They are the actors making those statements for political gain. Even a prominent PRC advisor to the Chinese government made a statement there was no evidence of CIA involvement and he was recently censored. He is correct.

    I will not go over the history that led to the Sino-British Treaty, though it is needed here as so many have no idea what they are talking about. That I leave up to you.

    Just like the post that said The PRC has invaded Hong Kong with the fake videos. The PRC has moved more troops to the border town of Shenzhen and everyone knows who they are and where.
    For now they are in China.

    Blaming the HK people for what has transpired is not just nonsense, but is very helpful to the PRC to support and excuse their actions. You may blame GB, but they negotiated hard and long to get the Chinese to the table and prevent a threatened invasion which would have resulted in great loss of life.

    So, what the US decides to do, if anything must be carefully parsed in line with its current treaties and obligations.

    Supporting the Hong Kong people or not as individual US citizens is your choice to make. Make it the right choice. There is much the US government may do within the parameters of its obligations enshrined in law.

    Liked by 3 people

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