Attorney For Officer Michael Slager Gently Outlines Investigative Flaws – How South Carolina Rushed To Judgment…

The shooting of Walter Scott by Police Officer Slager was immediately broadcast to the world. Unfortunately, like many of those previous broadcasts, the narrative transmitted was fraught with manipulation and agenda. The Scott family brought in Ryan Julison to direct the media and tell a story. A very specific story.

Now, the attorney for Officer Slager has to begin a careful and deliberate process of bringing truthful sunlight upon the shooting.

Walter Scott deblurredWalter Scott - taser lead

SOUTH CAROLINA – Private investigators for the former North Charleston policeman jailed in Walter Scott’s death found two bullets that had been missed by state agents who examined the shooting scene two weeks earlier, according to court documents filed by the officer’s attorney.

But it was how the State Law Enforcement Division handled other evidence that has prompted a point of legal contention and a motion by Michael Slager’s attorney for a court inquiry into the agency’s destruction of evidence.

Walter Scott - upper hand

After collecting the projectiles, an agent reported that he redid three-dimensional scans of the scene because the originals had been deleted, according to a SLED document included in the motion.

The attorney, Andy Savage of Charleston, said this week that it cannot be known whether the destruction of the scans made on the day of the shooting will have any impact on the case until SLED provides a more detailed explanation for the action.

SLED spokesman Thom Berry said he could not comment on any specifics of the agency’s ongoing investigation or on court documents. Ninth Circuit Solicitor Scarlett Wilson also did not immediately discuss whether the recent development would affect the prosecution.

[…] The move added to a list of concerns Savage said he has developed because SLED has used the media to control a narrative of the April 4 shooting and failed to reveal any evidence that could help explain the events leading to his client’s actions.

A bystander’s cellphone video showed the officer shooting at Scott eight times from behind. Scott, 50, was running away after what authorities and Slager’s previous attorney said was a struggle over the officer’s Taser.

walter scott tazer leads

[…] Authorities have not made public whether Slager’s Taser was ever fired during the confrontation. The bystander who filmed the shooting, though, has said he heard the weapon go off, and the SLED document in the recent court motion referred to two stun gun cartridges found at the scene.

On the day of Scott’s death, SLED agents got an initial account of what the police said had occurred. But they did not get an interview with Slager until the cellphone video surfaced.

Two days after the footage was made public, SLED Chief Mark Keel said in a statement that his agents had been suspicious of the official account from the start. “It is our nature throughout the investigation process to analyze all of the evidence in this and any other case to ensure a fair and impartial investigation,” Keel said then.

The evidence they missed, though, was inside a perimeter agents established at the crime scene, according to Savage’s court filing. On the day of the shooting, agents with a metal detector looked over a pile of leaves, near two fences and around where Scott’s body had been lying, but they did not find the objects.

Walter Scott map 2

[…] The private investigators hired by Savage, Steve Russell of Mount Pleasant and John Paolucci of Brewster, N.Y., came across the bullets on April 20 while walking through the same area. They called deputies to the site, and SLED agents later collected the evidence.

Lab experts matched one of the bullets to Slager’s .45-caliber pistol, Savage said, but the other was in such poor condition that it could not be linked to a specific firearm.

Two days after the discovery and 19 days after the shooting, agents again returned and used a FARO laser scanner to create a 3-D rendering of the site.

An agent had started to scan the scene on the day of the shooting, Savage said, but another told him to stop. “The first scan was deleted due to the scanning process not being completed,” the SLED document stated. (read more)

walter scott - taser x26 - slager

Advertisements
This entry was posted in Abusive Cops, Agitprop, BGI - Black Grievance Industry, CRS, media bias, Police action, Political correctness/cultural marxism, propaganda, Racism, Ryan Julison, Uncategorized, Walter Scott Shooting. Bookmark the permalink.

136 Responses to Attorney For Officer Michael Slager Gently Outlines Investigative Flaws – How South Carolina Rushed To Judgment…

  1. bertdilbert says:

    Government workers, what do you expect. Private contractors are fired for lazy and incompetent. Unless they are connected campaign doners.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. auscitizenmom says:

    Here we go again. Can’t wait to hear the rest of the “real” story.

    Liked by 3 people

    • I’m still “on the fence” on this shooting. There’s much about the events and the nature of the struggle prior to the beginning of the video that I don’t understand. Also, I would like to know more about what Officer Slager had to say in regards to his decision making process, and any perception he had about the degree of personal danger he was in, and any perception of what threat Scott may have posed to the general public.

      Liked by 5 people

      • auscitizenmom says:

        I’m with you. Need more info.

        Liked by 2 people

      • archer52 says:

        If he got lit up at all by the stray barbs, his lethal force light went green. That’s just training.

        I talked to my training buddy and told him it looks like he took one barb in the leg and the other in the vest. He said the officer would not be disabled, but would feel the charge go through him.

        Depending on the model, that taser will send a charge up to five seconds I think. If he was being lit up as he was pulling his weapon, he could have been thinking “this is it!” and feared being disabled.

        And again, I point out, higher function, lower function of the brain. Once the higher function makes a decision to fire, the lower function takes over and it is automatic after that.

        Still a bad shoot, just not murder.

        Like

        • art tart says:

          archer52 ~ Since you consider it a “bad shoot,” what, in your opinion would have been more appropriate charges?

          The definition of “manslaughter is:” the crime of killing a human being without malice aforethought, or otherwise in circumstances not amounting to murder.

          Would the shots to the back prevent this from being a “manslaughter” case considering the shots to the back?

          Like

  3. f2000 says:

    On what we know of the struggle and supposition about the taser, I’m tentatively remaining in camp Slager, The deleted half scan, or why they stopped the scan at all, does seem to tend towards some incompetence, but I don’t see anything here that indicates something major was missed or that there is evidence that might change our understanding of what happened.

    Maybe I’m missing something.

    Like

  4. BobNoxious says:

    So we now find out that Slager was not interviewed until AFTER the cellphone video surfaced… So what “lie”did he tell in interviews to police that was contradicted by the video? Wasn’t that the story we were told by the media 24/7 after the shooting?

    Liked by 6 people

    • auscitizenmom says:

      Yep, yep, yep!

      Like

    • oldiadguy says:

      Bob,
      Slager was interviewed at the scene by a Charleston officer. There is a video of part of that interview with Slager and the interviewing officer standing behind a police car. During this video, you can see the interviewing officer point his hand as if holding a gun in the direction of Slager. Almost immediately after the hand gesture, interviewing officer steps back a bit as if to ascertain a specific distance.

      The SLED investigators stated they were surprised that Scott had been shot in the back. Why would they have been surprised unless someone told them that Scott had been facing Slager at the time of the shooting. Perhaps the information they received from the interviewing officer was that Scott was pointing the Taser at Slager when he started to fire.

      Based on my interpretation of the interview video and the fact Slager supposedly had a disastrous interview with SLED investigators a couple of days after the shooting, my suspicion is that Slager claims Scott was facing him and pointing the Taser at him at the time Slager fired. The SLED investigators knew this claim was false after obtaining the video and when they interviewed Slager under Miranda, they allowed him to repeat this claim. After locking him into the false statement, they confronted him with the video.

      Whether Slager broke down after being confronted with the video or doubled down on his story, I can’t guess. However, it is odd that no effort has been made to get Slager out on bail or on a writ. I suspect his attorney would have to get his consent to apply for either.

      Take Care

      Like

      • art tart says:

        oldiadguy ~ And it was when the video surfaced, Slager’s first Attorney exited the case without much explanation though I think Savage is a better Attorney. I remember the 1st attorney said, “Slager will need a good defense Attorney.” (paraphrased)

        oldiadguy shared ~ “Based on my interpretation of the interview video and the fact Slager supposedly had a disastrous interview with SLED investigators a couple of days after the shooting, my suspicion is that Slager claims Scott was facing him and pointing the Taser at him at the time Slager fired.”

        oldiadguy ~ If your suspicions are correct, this becomes even more problematic for Slager’s defense. Scott didn’t have the taser, when Slager dropped the taser by Scott’s body, then picked it up, as seen in the “video,” imo, makes this difficult to overcome especially if SLED has locked Slager’s story down before the video was released.

        imo, SLED hasn’t controlled the narrative, but the video that was National News nightly was what “controlled the narrative.” The video is telling, the public has formed a lot of opinions on the video whether right or wrong. If Savage has a better slant on presenting this in a better light, he should do so imo.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Lenfb says:

          Slager was already in the process of drawing his firearm when we then see the taser tumble on the ground. It very well may have been pointed at the officer but was thrown as he saw the Officer responding with his firearm.
          We also have audio of someone supposedly saying something like; “Don’t make me shoot you”.
          If the taser was in the suspects possession, he has then already established himself as a significant threat to the Officer prior to the Officer initiating his response.

          As Steve Jacobs (@BigfootSteve) says:
          April 12, 2015 at 2:46 pm said on the following page.

          https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/04/12/game-changer-or-paradigm-shift-walter-scott-shooting-enhanced-video-shows-officer-slager-with-taser-darts/comment-page-1/

          “Safe rule if thumb…if someone tries to tell you a cop murdered someone in broad daylight, on a public street, in front of who knows how many witnesses, with no chance in hell of getting away with it, stop and think about what it is they are asking you to believe. No doubt, there are bad cops out there, but that doesn’t mean they are stupid. Heck, even non-cop criminals know better than that for the most part, except for the ones who don’t care if they get caught.”

          Liked by 2 people

          • art tart says:

            hi Lenfb ~ We don’t know what Slager said in his interview to SLED before the video surfaces, that’s a key part of this case, that’s what “oldiadguy” & I were discussing.

            We all want Officert Slager to get to go home to his wife/new baby. Savage isn’t contributing much to put Slager in a better light. Savage needs something/anything imo to make the video not so damning for Slager. Scott didn’t pose a threat to Slager when Scott was running away from Slager, Slager knew Scott didn’t have the taser at that point. That’s what Savage will have to overcome, & we don’t even know most of the evidence.

            Like

            • Lenfb says:

              I am well aware of what you were discussing.
              I am also well aware of the biased that you present in your arguments.
              You just presented such again. The video is not in and of itself damning. That is your own bias speaking. Nor do you know what Slager knew at that point. That is your assumption. Not that it really matters to the letter of the law, but for all anyone knows he didn’t see him throw the taser.

              I am not sure you understood this point, but you might want to give it some thought.

              “If the taser was in the suspects possession, he has then already established himself as a significant threat to the Officer prior to the Officer initiating his response.”

              Liked by 4 people

              • art tart says:

                Lenfb ~ I was well aware of all the same information you brought up that was in all the threads, I have participated in every thread, read all the links!

                Lenfb shared ~ “I am also well aware of the biased that you present in your arguments.”

                Lenfb ~ That’s ludicrous! I follow the evidence wherever it leads, no matter how uncomfortable that makes you, that would be your problem as you have no answers to the most important questions. Only upthread, “archer” stated “it wasn’t a good shoot.” “Sundance” reminds us the “truth has no agenda yet you can’t answer the questions where the evidence is leading needing only to use your common sense.

                Lenfb ~ (A) Slager gave Detectives/LE a story. (B) Then, the video surfaces & Slager is immediately arrested. (C) SLED stated, paraphrased as I know you should have read their statement, “they had questions about the crime scene as it wasn’t adding up.”

                (D) Do you honestly think the video helped Slager or hurt him?

                If you think the video helped Slager, why is he sitting in jail instead of home w/his family? Be honest w/yourself.

                Liked by 1 person

              • oldiadguy says:

                “I am well aware of what you were discussing.”

                Are you?

                “I am also well aware of the biased that you present in your arguments.”

                Please describe these bias that you observed.

                “The video is not in and of itself damning.”

                I disagree and almost every competent expert I’ve read or seen seems to agree with me about it being a bad shoot.

                “That is your own bias speaking. Nor do you know what Slager knew at that point. That is your assumption. Not that it really matters to the letter of the law, but for all anyone knows he didn’t see him throw the taser.”

                Talk about assumptions! There is no hard evidence that Scott ever had Slager’s Taser let alone threw it.

                “I am not sure you understood this point, but you might want to give it some thought.”

                I do understand your point. I’ve been forthright in providing my fellow Treepers with information concerning my training, experience and background so they can evaluate and weigh my opinions. They are free to agree or disagree, that is their choice.

                You have chosen not to provide any background so that we may evaluate and weigh the value of your opinions. Instead, you charge others with being bias because they disagree with your opinion.

                If you are in search of bias, I suggest that you look in the mirror. You may want to give that some thought.

                Take Care,

                Like

            • Lenfb says:

              “That’s ludicrous! I follow the evidence wherever it leads, ”
              No, you clearly do not.

              What is ludicrous is pointing to SLED ~
              It is clear that they jumped the gun and did not give the video a careful examination.
              They didn’t even interview the witness prior to arresting the Officer.

              That does not make SLED worthy of any believability.

              Pointing to SLED as arresting the Officer is as bad as saying that Zimmerman was guilty of something becasue he was arrested.
              It is as bad as relying on the bs Affidavit from Corey as having any meaning.

              The video shows there was combative resistance from the suspect which is good for the Officer.
              The video showing of the taser coming from the suspect is good for the Officer.
              The Officer picking up the taser and moving it and then picking it up again has no meaning at this point without more information.
              Suggesting otherwise speaks to your bias.

              @oldiadguy
              You coming to art tart’s defense is as telling as tag teaming the the same position.

              “almost every competent expert”
              I have yet to see any competent expert with your opinion that has carefully reviewed the video.

              “Talk about assumptions! There is no hard evidence that Scott ever had Slager’s Taser let alone threw it.”
              Your choice of words is telling as well. “Hard evidence”. There is evidence.
              1. Slager’s word is evidence.
              2. The Video is evidence and a careful review eliminates the possibility that the taser was thrown by the Officer.

              The taser was thrown with a force and in a direction that it could not have come from the Officer.

              The taser landed off of the Officer’s left rear.
              The Officer’s left hand was occupied holding onto the suspect, so it didn’t come from his left hand, and therefore would have had to come from his right hand if he had it.

              For it to land off to the left as it did, it would have had to be flipped around the back, and the Officer made no such movement.
              What we can see is that the Officer had already reached downwards and was in the process of pulling his firearm up when the the taser came into view.

              This eliminates the possibility of the taser having come from the Officer.

              As for your claimed experience.
              Your opinion doesn’t seem to jibe with such experience, nor do I care, as people do say all kinds of things on the internet.
              And even if you do have such experience it matters not to the arguments you have made. An “argument from authority” is a logical fallacy, and that is exemplified by the lawyer Leatherman who was wrong almost every time he opened his mouth in regards to legal arguments about the Zimmerman case.

              Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            If you have followed this topic since the beginning, you will know that I believe that Slager tossed the Taser to his rear just prior to pulling his pistol. Two things to note in the video. The Taser is never visible in the space between Scott and Slager just prior to it appearing behind Slager. the second thing to notice is the two very quick upwards movements of Slager’s right shoulder. I believe the first upward movement was from him tossing the Taser to his rear and the second upward movement was Slager drawing for his pistol.

            If I was going to transition from a Taser to my pistol, I would have tossed the Taser to my rear before drawing my pistol. This is what I believe Slager did. I have also made inquiries with a number of active duty officers in my area. Almost all of them said the same thing. This action is for economy of motion as well as a safety issue.

            In regards to Steve Jacobs comment you quoted, I don’t know what Jacobs’ background is, but I spent over 13 years as an IA investigator. I have viewed many videos in which an officers commits a criminal act in front of a clearly visible camera. Whether they are stupid, don’t care if they get caught or think they can lie their way out of it, I don’t know. I do know that it is a common occurrence.

            Take Care

            Like

        • lorac says:

          Scott didn’t have the taser, when Slager dropped the taser by Scott’s body, then picked it up, as seen in the “video,”

          But what we see at the end doesn’t mean that he never had the taser….

          Like

          • art tart says:

            lorac ~ no one is saying that Scott didn’t momentarily have the taser, what we know is that Scott didn’t have the taser when he was shot in the back, the taser had been thrown behind Slager.

            Like

      • Armie says:

        On this kind of case, while it’s still front page news, you’re not going to get anything resembling a bail amount the average middle class Joe would be able to afford. I suspect there’s been some informal discussions about what the DA was going to ask for. Give it a couple of months, let the temptation to grab a headline abate and the facts of the case emerge, and I suspect you’ll see a petition for a bail hearing come September or October.

        Like

        • art tart says:

          Armie ~ I just figured that while Slager is having to pay Savage, which will not likely be cheap, he may not have the funds for a bail even if it’s a reasonable bail. With a wife/new baby needing to be supported, it’s a tough spot for Slager, his priorities I would think would be his defense Attorney/his family keeping a roof over their head, IDK, I feel really bad for him.

          Like

          • MouseTheLuckyDog says:

            Does he pay the lawyer, or does the PBA/FoP pay the lawyer?

            Liked by 1 person

            • oldiadguy says:

              The PBA or the FOP provided the first attorney. After the SLED interview, the lawyer Slager had been provided, dropped his representation and the PBA or FOP also dropped him. Those two actions are very significant occurrences. Unlike us here on the Tree House, they know what Slager said in the SLED interview.

              Slager’s new attorney, Savage, said something to the effect that Slager’s first attorney made some mistakes. My suspicion is that the first attorney allowed Slager to make a Miranda statement. If Slager did make a Miranda statement, he is now locked into that statement.

              Like

              • art tart says:

                oldiadguy ~ thanks as always for the information you share. I was reading down from the top, I didn’t see your response to Mouse, so I answered it too. I didn’t have the information you had but I’m glad to get it. It clears up a lot.

                Liked by 1 person

            • art tart says:

              MouseTheLuckyDog ~ I don’t know, I pray his lawyer is paid for. I would wonder if they would use one of their Attorney’s or if Savage is even one of their Attorneys which would be great. IDK.

              I feel terribly for Slager/his wife/new baby. He needs to be home, this is a terrible mess that leaves more important questions than answers. Maybe Slager can pull it off, I truly hope he can but there are many uncomfortable questions about Slager that have gotten him arrested after the video surfaced.

              Liked by 1 person

          • Mary Anne Manning Boudolf says:

            I heard that it is pro bono. It is unfair, and unjust to think that an officer would be fired. arrested, and charged with murder before he is even tried. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. Why aren’t the first parts of the video being shown, that show the fight. Lets be fair. Scott’s family has been already given $6.5 million dollars by North Charleston mayor Keith Summey, which makes them appear guilty. Let’s be fair and not one sided. In my opinion, he is innocent until proven guilty.

            Like

        • oldiadguy says:

          I believe there is a hearing scheduled for sometime in mid September. As far as the facts of the case emerging, I fear they already have. Savage apparently has at least some of the discovery material, that is how he found out SLED erased a partial scan of the area. SLED did not try to hid the erasure as they apparently documented it in their report.

          Savage may indeed be an excellent attorney, but his actions to date have been weak. I was involved in a corruption case and the officer involved had one of the best attorneys in the area. The attorney told reporters that he was going to prove that his client was innocent and that the investigators did not do a professional job. The attorney filed a blizzard of motions and made himself a pita. The end result was the attorney was jockeying for a favorable plea bargain. The officer still went to prison, but not for as long as could have.

          Whether Savage’s actions are efforts for a favorable plea bargain or the opening salvo of a vigorous defense, I don’t know, time will tell.

          Like

      • Beaver says:

        The SLED investigators stated they were surprised that Scott had been shot in the back. Why would they have been surprised unless someone told them that Scott had been facing Slager at the time of the shooting.

        Because perps aren’t usually shot in the back. No one had to tell them anything for them to be surprised upon discovering this. They likely assumed he was shot from the front, as they usually are.

        Like

        • art tart says:

          Beaver ~ in previous threads, others shared your thoughts as well, especially when Slager claimed “he was in fear for his life because Scott had the taser, he’s got my taser.” That was debunked when Scott was shown momentarily w/the taser, he had no taser as he was running away from Slager..

          Liked by 1 person

        • oldiadguy says:

          While the SLED investigators may have assumed the suspect had been shot from the front while they responded to the scene. That assumption may have been reaffirmed after they arrived at the scene. They would have most certainly asked the on scene personnel what happened when they arrived. The SLED investigators would have interviewed the debriefing officer I mentioned up thread as they could not interview Slager per policy. (The involved officers has a couple of days to decompress before a formal interview.)

          I laid out my analysis of what I believe may have occurred during the debriefing video. What is yours?

          Like

  5. fred says:

    I saw on the news when the escapee from the NY prison was shot in the back how police had every right to shoot an escaping felon in the back. All news agencies reported it was OK procedure. Wonder if that will factor into this case.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Indiemex says:

      Good point, fred. However, never forget that, dots are not to be connected when the perp is non-white.

      Liked by 4 people

    • Burnt Toast says:

      Unrelated death by cop

      Here’s a link to a police body cam video of a perp being shot… hmmm… maybe in the back… while down…

      http://gunfreezone.net/wordpress/index.php/2015/07/02/if-you-play-stupid-games-graphic-content

      Hard to tell on one viewing what was going on there.

      Link to another video, the other cop’s body cam, has a whole different feel to it

      http://www.policeone.com/officer-shootings/articles/8637066-Video-Texas-cops-fatally-shoot-man-who-pulled-replica

      Like

      • Lenfb says:

        Here is a video provided by another person in a previous discussion of this case.
        It is of an Officer that was cleared after continuing to shoot the suspect in the back “after” he knew the suspect got rid of the gun he had.

        Liked by 1 person

        • Stamp says:

          HA HA that was a good shoot. This perp whines like a little girl at the end too.

          Like

        • oldiadguy says:

          The officer in this case knew he was dealing with a suspect armed with a handgun. When the officer started firing, the suspect still had possession of the pistol. It wasn’t until after the officer began firing, that the suspect tossed the pistol over his head. The officer stopped firing, as soon as it registered to him that the suspect no longer had the pistol. It was a good shoot.

          Different scenario than the Scott shooting.

          Like

          • Lenfb says:

            It seems you are deliberately ignoring the point and stating otherwise.
            He knew he had tossed it yet continued to fire anyways.
            Did you get that? “He knew.” It was not something that later registered
            He knew and continued to fire.

            All this was in the immediate and the threat the suspect made himself did not just disappear becasue he tossed the weapon.

            He still remained that threat in the immediate until apprehended, as he showed he would use such force to effectuate his escape.

            Like

    • oldiadguy says:

      The escapee from the NY prison was a convicted murderer who had been breaking into hunting cabins in the area and was possibly armed. A big difference between that case and the Walter Scott shooting.

      Like

      • art tart says:

        oldiadguy ~ I was thinking about the discussion we had above about Slager’s statement to LE/Detectives. I had remembered reading this link it shades light on some of the problems Slager likely encountered when being arrested I think.

        Article: NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence and Counterterrorism John Miller weighs in

        NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence and Counterterrorism John Miller said he learned in his training at the police academy in Los Angeles, “If somebody is running away, they don’t pose a threat to you.”

        “If you have a fleeing suspect, and remember we don’t have a fleeing felon here as far as we know, we have a fleeing guy with a broken tail light, you are supposed to chase that person down and use whatever force is necessary at that point,” Miller, a former CBS News correspondent, said Thursday on “CBS This Morning.”

        In his initial incident report, Slager said he feared for his safety after Scott grabbed his Taser. Feidin Santana, the man who recorded the video, spoke to NBC News about what he witnessed and painted a different picture.

        “In society we have a compact and that is we ask the police to go in harm’s way, to get hurt, to get killed, and in return for that, part of the compact is when they come back with their account of what happened, we give them the benefit of the doubt,” Miller said. “I think this video reversed this tide very quickly.”

        http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nypd-john-miller-south-carolina-officer-michael-slager-shooting-walter-scott/

        Liked by 1 person

        • oldiadguy says:

          Slager’s defense team has a lot of problems to overcome when they entered the case. Their biggest problem is that their client is the creator of most of these problems. I too wish Slager well, but I believe there is a plea bargain in the making.

          Like

    • art tart says:

      fred ~ there’s a big difference. The NY prison escapee had already been convicted & was serving his time when he broke out of jail, he was serving time for heinous crimes, he was considered armed/dangerous & that’s why it “it was OK procedure.”

      This won’t factor into Slager’s case, why would it? Scott had not been convicted of any crime nor had he been put under arrest, he was running away from Slager.

      Like

      • auscitizenmom says:

        After attacking Slager.

        Liked by 1 person

        • art tart says:

          auscitizenmom ~ Slager & Scott tussled for the taser, Scott likely discharged the taser on Slager BUT Scott didn’t have the taser when he was shot in the back by Slager. That’s the difference.

          Like

          • coeurdaleneman says:

            You keep moving the goalposts.

            Liked by 1 person

          • Lenfb says:

            TENNESSEE v. GARNER
            “If the suspect threatens the officer with a weapon or there is probable cause to believe that he has committed a crime involving the infliction or threatened infliction of serious physical harm, deadly force may be used if necessary to prevent escape, and if, where feasable, some warning has been given.”

            If the suspect threatened the Officer, use of deadly force is reasonable to then stop his flight, as the suspect has already established himself to be such a threat.

            And then you have the SC jury instruction as to how their law is applied.

            Police officer – arrest
            During an arrest for a felony, if the arresting officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, the officer may prevent the escape by using deadly Force.
            http://www.judicial.state.sc.us/juryCharges/GS%20InstructionsJune2013.pdf

            If the suspect took and pointed the taser, he had already established himself as such a threat. (he would use such force to effectuate his escape) If he would use such force on an Officer, It is reasonable to assume that he would use such force on anyone else he may encounter in his flight.

            Liked by 3 people

            • art tart says:

              Another attorney stated why case case wouldn’t be relevant in their opinion disagreeing w/this case. This link has been posted countless times, what is important, if you are not an attorney, is to consider what the other Attorney had to say as why this won’t be relevant or reasonable in his attorney.

              You can go back to the other threads to read the Attorney’s comment, I’ve already read it.

              Like

              • Lenfb says:

                Pointing to an Attorney who coincides with your beliefs is meaningless.
                1. It is an argument to authority which is a logical fallacy.
                2. It is as meaningless as the Travonites who relied on Mr. Leatherman’s opinions, which shows why arguments from authority hold no weight.

                My argument meets the Written Law, the Case Law and fits within the the State’s Jury instructions. The only argument against that is to show how it doesn’t.
                Please do so.

                Like

            • oldiadguy says:

              Two problems with your analysis. The first, a Taser is a non lethal weapon. It is a control device and not designed to cause any serious physical harm. Officers use them everyday on suspects without causing any serious physical injury. Therefore, it is highly doubtful that Tennessee vs. Garner would apply in this case solely based on the Taser.

              Second there is no evidence to date to show that Scott took control of Slager’s Taser and pointed it at him. If there was credible evidence that Scott obtained Slager’s Taser, why hasn’t either of his attorneys made that claim? Such evidence would definitely help Slager’s case if such evidence existed.

              The only statement concerning the alleged fight over the Taser was made by Slager, when the told dispatch, “Shots fired and the subject is down, he took my taser.” This statement makes Slager’s actions in regards to the re-location of the Taser after the shooting very important.

              After having watched the video, I hope that we can all agree that after shooting Scott and handcuffing him, Slager ran back to the scene of the struggle and picked up an item from the ground. I believe that object to be his Taser. While Slager is walking back towards Scott, he is seen carrying an object in his right hand. From my observations, I believe Slager is holding his Taser by the pistol grip. When Slager returns to Scott’s location, Slager is seen tossing something to the ground. I believe Slager tossed his Taser and it fell in a horizontal position causing it appear to be linear in shape in the video. Moments later, Slager picks up an object from the ground in the same general area and appears to place it onto the left side of his duty belt. I believe Slager picked up his Taser and placed it into it’s holster which was on the left side of his duty belt.

              You can disagree with my analysis. That is your right. However, I base by findings on over 38 years of police experience.

              While I’m at it, let me remind everyone that to date no one with actual knowledge of the incident has stated that then Officer Slager had been shot with his own Taser. Not the North Charleston PD, not SLED, not the North Charleston Police Union, not Slager’s first attorney nor Slager’s present attorney, Savage. If Slager had been shot with his own Taser that information would have come out by now. This information would definitely help his case.

              We can continue to discuss the known facts in this case and some will still disagree. Here are three known unkowns I would like to have the answer to.

              What did the black officer tell his superiors about the shooting scene?
              What did the black officer tell the SLED investigators?
              What did Slager tell the debriefing officer?
              What did Slager tell the SLED investigators?

              Answers to these questions may put to rest some of the disagreements concerning this case.

              Take Care

              Like

              • Armie says:

                How is your analysis impacted if what Slager picks up is the handpiece of the Taser, not the entire weapon? It’s fairly obvious from the footage that Scott is dragging the probe cartridge behind him while he’s running.

                Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  The hand piece or Taser body is the weapon. It can still be used to drive stun, but you have to come into close contact in order to that.

                  The cartridge is where the probes and wires are stored prior to discharging. Normally one cartridge is attached to the front of the Taser and a spare is attached (stored) to the handgrip.

                  The recovery location of the Taser body would have been critical to Slager’s justification if Slager claimed Scott had the Taser and pointed it at him and was the cause of him (Slager) firing on Scott.

                  Take Care

                  Like

                • Armie says:

                  Yeah, I follow that. What I’m having trouble with is that in a scenario where deadly force is justified against someone armed with a weapon that’s only effective upon contact,(Handpiece, no probes), I don’t see how the guy carrying it away would be more of a help to the officer’s case than the guy dropping it and running away would be. In other words, assuming it was the taser Slager picked up and relocated, what possible advantage could he have perceived he’d get by doing that? It seems to me the personal threat ended when Scott fled, so finding the handpiece at the point of conflict wouldn’t have been any more inculpatory for Slager than finding it alongside Scott. The ability of the taser to harm Slager ended when Scott ran off.

                  In a situation where the suspect has a weapon that’s capable of bridging the gap between the officer and the suspect, and there’s a desire to plant that weapon in order to justify a use of force, I can understand moving it to accomplish that. What you have here, though, giving it the worst reading, would be an attempt to plant a weapon that’d be just as dangerous if located at the scene of the fight as it would be located at the spot where the suspect died. I know people under stress do a lot of stuff that makes no sense… been there myself… but a guy trying to plant something that isn’t going to help his case is pretty far out there.

                  We all have our takes on how it played out. Mine is that at the moment Slager put out the shots fired call and said Scott had his taser, he actually believed he did. Well, we shall see what we shall see.

                  Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  I understand what you mean. I don’t understand Slager’s thought process before, during and after the shooting.

                  There is a lot in that video that I find troubling. However, my analysis of what I saw in the video, based on my experience, seems to draw some ire around here, I’ll refrain from making any further analysis at this point to keep the peace in the Tree House.

                  Take Care

                  Like

            • Lenfb says:

              @ oldiadguy
              Your analysis of mine fails.
              1. Doesn’t matter if the taser is or isn’t a lethal weapon, as that is not the requirement.
              You speak to a taser in the hands of an Officer who has been trained to use it, not a suspect who isn’t.
              It is known that a taser use can be lethal, it is also known it is a weapon that can inflict serious injury if used improperly.
              There is no information that the suspect was taught, nor should one assume any such thing of a suspect.
              The suspect obtaining a viable taser would also allow him to use it to effectuate the taking of the Officer’s firearm.

              Again – The jury instruction.
              “Police officer – arrest
              During an arrest for a felony, if the arresting officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a threat of serious physical harm, either to the officer or to others, the officer may prevent the escape by using deadly Force.”

              Simply knocking someone upside the head can cause serious physical harm.
              The suspect had already established himself as such threat by being combative.

              No evidence? What? Slager saying he took the taser is evidence.
              His throwing it is also evidence that he had it.
              You thinking it came from the Officer is absurdity.
              It was thrown with a force and in a direction that it could not have come from the Officer.
              And the video shows the Officer already reaching downward to draw his firearm prior to the taser coming into view, which then comes into view as he draws his firearm upwards.

              And no his statement does not make his later actions in regards to the taser suspect.
              That is nothing more than a cynical assumption on your part. Absent any evidence indicating otherwise, common sense and logic would dictate a non-biased assumption be made in regards to his training and procedure prior to any cynical assumption like you have made. Especially as he did this in front of another Officer and especially, as the witness said the Officer knew he was being recorded. Which is why I quoted what Steve Jacobs (@BigfootSteve) said.

              “Safe rule if thumb…if someone tries to tell you a cop murdered someone in broad daylight, on a public street, in front of who knows how many witnesses, with no chance in hell of getting away with it, stop and think about what it is they are asking you to believe. No doubt, there are bad cops out there, but that doesn’t mean they are stupid. Heck, even non-cop criminals know better than that for the most part, except for the ones who don’t care if they get caught.”

              Like

          • littlelaughters says:

            Your use of the word “tussle” just removed any doubt for me that you’re objective.

            Liked by 2 people

            • art tart says:

              coeurdaleneman ~ how did I move the goal post? Everybody saw the video!little

              Liked by 1 person

            • art tart says:

              littlelaughters ~ But you aren’t objective at all, if you base your opinion on the word “tussle” which has been used on this site countless times & in media reporting, you aren’t doing the right thing.

              What’s important to me personally are the comments of “archer 52” & “oldiadguy” among others who bring their expertise/LE training to this case in & out of the field.. “Armie” & “BobNoxious” share their legal expertise w/us among others, those are the most relevant comments to me as they reflects years of experience & share w/us & the treepers their years of knowledge. We are lucky to have them. “archer52” commented upthread that it “wasn’t a good shoot.”

              Like

              • art tart says:

                littlelaughters ~ I apologize for statingthis as I misspoke:

                ” But you aren’t objective at all, if you base your opinion on the word “tussle” which has been used on this site countless times & in media reporting, you aren’t doing the right thing.”

                littlelaughters, I explained who I base opinions on as well as all other media reporting in this case & why, of course you are free to base your opinion on anything.

                Like

                • littlelaughters says:

                  The word tussle was/is constantly being used by BGI, media, false witnesses, and ftp crowd to describe the assault on Darren Wilson by Mike Brown. Tussle was/is used by same to describe a beat down by black mobs.
                  Same here in this case. When I understood the distance being traversed in this chase as well as the fact that we do not see the entire set of events, combined with the current narrative of police deliberately killing unarmed blacks, I understood enough to know that the chances for this cop being railroaded are higher than they would’ve been had this happened a decade ago.
                  Those giving their professional opinions here are always well received. But that doesn’t make their opinions of this case (or any other) fact.

                  Like

          • James F says:

            Tussle? It was felony assault.

            Liked by 1 person

        • oldiadguy says:

          Small point. Locally we call Scott’s actions a Resisting. When Scott ran from the car, it would have been a Resisting by Flight. When Scott and Slager went hands on it became a Resisting an Arrest. Both of these charges are ordinance violations and would have been the charges Scott could have faced had the incident had occurred here.

          The city where from which I retired did so due to the volume of arrests that were made. However, the municipality where I now live and most of the other municipalities in the area do the same thing. They have municipal ordinances that are identical to the state charges. The monies received from the fines go into the local coffers.

          The state courts here encourage this practice as it frees up their dockets for more serious offenses. The local state prosecutors would rarely issue a state charge for a Resisting an Arrest if the original charge was a minor traffic violation and the arresting officer was uninjured.

          Saying Scott attacked Slager sounds like Scott laid in wait and attacked Slager when he wasn’t looking. I have seen no evidence that this occurred. It is a small point probably only important to an old cop like me.

          Take Care

          Like

          • coeurdaleneman says:

            You make it sound like sport, just an innocent tussle. Like you did it for laughs, just another training exercise.

            I look at the video and am appalled. That was potentially life-threating to that cop. Slager was the only person on earth who experienced what Scott had done and was capable of doing, not some reviewer monday-morning qbing from afar. Frankly, I’m getting tired of your act.

            Liked by 1 person

            • oldiadguy says:

              coeurdaleneman,

              I am only pointing out the reality I experienced over my police career and sharing my training and experience with fellow Treepers. I am trying to do it without either bias or emotion. There is no acting on my part. I believe that I have the training and experience to give opinions on police related threads based on my experience. I am sorry you disagree.

              I too am appalled by what I see on that video, but for a different reason. While Slager was the only officer to have an altercation with Scott at that time and location, he was not the first officer to experience a potentially life threatening experience. It goes with the territory of being a police officer. I might note, that with the exception of a possible abrasion on his knee, Slager does not appeared to have been injured in his altercation with Scott.

              Please remember this fact. The primary duty of every police officer is the preservation of human life. The preservation of all lives, black, white, red, yellow or brown, male or female, the innocent and the guilty. No one forced me or any one else to become a police officer. Each of us freely accepted the duties and risks that are inherent with the profession. Slager did the same.

              I and most other officers have faced use of force decisions during our careers. I had a lot of practice in making those decisions as the city where I worked was consistently listed among the most violent in the country. As a patrol officer, I would end up in the ER about 2 or 3 times a year on average as a result of a resisting. I can’t sleep on my left side due to an injury I received from a suspect who after assaulting a mixed race couple tried to flee in a stolen car by ramming his way through traffic.

              It was a situation where lethal force was justified, however, the area was full of pedestrians and motorists that could have been injured or killed had I missed the suspect or the rounds ricocheted off his vehicle. Since firing on the suspect created an unacceptable risk to innocent bystanders, I chose another tactic. Unfortunately it failed to stop his escape and resulted me ending up in the ER with a badly injured shoulder.

              I can provide many other instances where I had to make a decision about whether to use lethal force, but I won’t. The point I’m trying to make is that there are risks one excepts when entering law enforcement. As a LEO we have to live and sometimes die by the decisions we make. In the cased of former officer Slager, he has to live with the decision he made that day in April.

              Earlier in this thread, art tart quoted NYPD Deputy Commissioner of Intelligence and Counterterrorism John Miller and I believe his statement applies here.

              “In society we have a compact and that is we ask the police to go in harm’s way, to get hurt, to get killed, and in return for that, part of the compact is when they come back with their account of what happened, we give them the benefit of the doubt,”

              By all appearances Slager’s account of what occurred was being accepted, maybe with some skepticism, but it was being accepted. It was the video that changed that dynamic. The question I raised earlier in this thread is why. Does the video confirm Slager’s versions of events? I suspect it does not.

              Look at the statue of Justice. She is blindfolded, holding her scales and weighing the facts impartially. Emotion has no part of her decisions. A jury will be selected to make a decision in this case. The jury will in effect “Monday morning quarterback” Slager’s decision.

              coeurdaleneman it is what it is. Neither of us can change it. Fortunately it is not up to us to decide Slager’s fate. Hopefully emotion will not play a part in the jury’s decision.

              Take Care

              Liked by 1 person

              • doodahdaze says:

                Here they put in a “special judge.”

                Like

              • Apparently there was a knife that was recovered from the scene. It was allegedly on the person of Walter Scott. Would that alter your perspective?

                Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  In a word, no. People carry pocket knives. I carry one everyday. Did Slager even know that Scott was carrying a pocket knife and did Scott ever flourish the knife.

                  Please watch the video again. After shooting Scott, Slager never kept his pistol pointed towards Scott as if he were a threat. When Slager walked up to Scott, he gave a couple of orders to place his hands behind his back, but not much else. Slager grabbed Scott’s hands and placed him in handcuffs. Slager never patted Scott down to look for any possible weapons nor did he turn him over to look for the Taser.

                  If Slager thought Scott had taken his Taser I would have thought he would have looked under Scott in an attempt to locate it. Again, this did not happened. Instead, Slager leaves his wounded prisoner and runs back to recover his Taser.

                  Take Care

                  Like

  6. Daniel says:

    The more I think about this, the more I believe we need some laws for the media. This would be nothing which would harm freedom of speech. This is about reporting the news.

    If they are presenting “evidence” before the audience, it must be complete and unedited. This is what the media did not do for Zimmerman and what started the mess. And even now, they have not been held liable for their distortion and creation of a false narrative.
    They should only be allowed to speak about what is know as a statement of fact. They should be held to careful limits on the adjectives they are allowed to use. “Unarmed teen” while technically accurate, suggests something other than the reality we know in the Mike Brown case.
    And while “shot while fleeing” is accurate in the Walter Scott case is also true, the details of what was not known were left out. Missing details paint a distinctly incorrect picture as humans tend to fill in the gaps with belief and bias. I believe even at the time of initial reporting, Scott was known to have been fighting and resisting the officer. It’s a very different thing to shoot a suspect believed to be dangerous to the public and simply to shoot someone for running.

    Laws regulating anything is generally a very bad idea. But when it comes to matters which clearly result in what we’re seeing today? The damage from the orchestrated and paid-for “public response” FAR outweighs the damage of the initial events themselves.

    At the very least, when media is demonstrated to have manipulated their reporting, they should be held very liable for it. Zimmerman needs to be paid for his losses. Darren Wilson needs to be paid for his losses. The NYPD needs “something” in response to the heavily manipulated stories against it and maybe the police unions are the proper parties to sue the media. And the Slager matter has yet to unfold so we’ll see.

    This media HAS to be reigned in. Unfortunately, such a thing would also bring hell-fire down on sites like this and I wouldn’t want that to happen. There has to be some way to restore integrity to reporting and to limit the harm it causes the public.

    Liked by 1 person

    • auscitizenmom says:

      I believe the media is doing EXACTLY what the White Hut intends. You will notice they use the term “alledgedly” when discussing crimes and criminals, except in certain cases, like Zimmermans’. And, they still say that criminal Trayvon was murdered.

      Liked by 6 people

    • Rurik says:

      No “prior restraint”, but full accountability afterward.

      Liked by 2 people

      • Agreed. The founding fathers were brilliant to get due process fully in and prior restraint fully out. Which explains why communism tries so desperately to reverse both, once it holds the reins of power.

        Liked by 2 people

  7. Jim says:

    I guess people just missed that the cop was shot by the deceased with his own taser. We can see the taser leads in the video. When the criminal struggled with the cop and fired the taser into the cop I would have shot his ass too!

    Like

    • kinthenorthwest says:

      Tasers hurt like shit

      Like

    • Lenfb says:

      Yes you can see the taser leads in the video. And?
      While I am on Slager’s side on this, you are assuming it shows something that it may not.

      Like

      • Jim says:

        Well I doubt he shot himself. The fleeing suspect began to fight with the policeman this seems like the new norm and is recreated each time I see arrests caught on file these days. No one listens and they all seem to think they can fight and argue there way out of being arrested, why is this so prevalent? At that point did he not commit a felony assaulting the officer and as a dangerous felon could he not be legally shot based on SC law? That is over and above shooting the policeman with his taser? How far do you let it go, that is a pretty busy area off Rivers avenue who else could have been harmed by the deceased if he was not shot?

        Liked by 1 person

        • Jim says:

          A dangerous fleeing felon who could have injured others

          Liked by 2 people

        • Lenfb says:

          All good points except for the fact that you are assuming Slager was shot with the taser.

          Liked by 1 person

          • Jim says:

            Well he doesn’t have probes sticking out of him trailing wires because he is recreating a miniature tightrope, just saying. Glad I live here in Charleston and not St. Louis where the paid protestors were not immediately sent in regurgitating the made up hands up don’t shoot narrative.

            Liked by 1 person

            • Lenfb says:

              You are again making an assumption. There is no available information to say any probe was actually sticking out of him.

              Liked by 1 person

              • Jim says:

                It is clearly seen on the video. Deny this fact if you like.

                Liked by 2 people

                • art tart says:

                  coeurdaleneman shared ~ Question: has Slager been charged with lying to authorities?

                  My question to you coeurdaleneman ~ Why in the world do you think Slager was immediately arrested when the video showed up? Common sense would reflect that Slager’s accounting of the events imo wasn’t what the video showed, hence, when the video appeared after Slager’s statement, Slager was immediately arrested. Using common sense, yea, Slager was likely arrested for lying imo. If Slager told the honest story to LE/Detectives before the video , then the video appears, wouldn’t Slagers accounting of the video been what the video showed?

                  WHY was Slager immediately arrested after the video:

                  (A) Think that Video didn’t show what Slager claimed? (B) Think the video helped Slager? Then why was Slager immediately arrested?

                  Read “oldiadguys” comment upthread where he explains “why Slager was likely arrested immediately & what Slager may have told Detectives/LE. He provided a great explanation as to what likely transpired & more importantly why & the consequences. It’s a good read & he answers your questions.

                  On this thread: oldiadguy says:

                  @July 4, 2015 at 6:17 pm

                  Like

                • Lenfb says:

                  You are not speaking to any fact. Nor is it clearly seen in the video.
                  All you are doing is assuming a probe was in the Officer.

                  Like

                • oldiadguy says:

                  Jim,

                  As Lenfb has stated, there is no information that Slager was shot with his own Taser. If that had occurred, I believe his first attorney would have made that known.

                  Slager’s Taser had two cartridges, each with two wired probes. Since neither cartridge is clearly visible in the Taser after Slager had picked it up and placed it into it’s holster, it is possible the Taser may have been discharged twice. If that had occurred, then there would be four separate wires to be accounted for. SLED has stated that two Taser cartridges had been recovered, but did not say where or the status of the cartridges.

                  We know from the reports that Scott had a probe in one of his legs. Also, a Taser cartridge can be seen bouncing behind him a he ran. Looking at the photos at the top of this thread, the one photo shows a wire hanging down from the front of Slager as Scott begins to run. The second photo showing the taunt wire between Slager’s chest area and Scott’s legs. The Taser cartridge is on the ground. The question is whether the photos show one wire or two.

                  At this point we don’t know when the Taser was discharged or how many times. Scott and Slager were involved in a ground fight. If the Taser was discharged prior to the ground fight, then both Slager and Scott could have been entangled with the Taser wires. I suspect that during the struggle the Taser wires snagged onto the front of Slager’s uniform. Police officers hate wearing seat belts with shoulder straps for this very reason. The items on the front of the uniform shirt snags on everything. I suspect it did here.

                  Take Care

                  Like

  8. kinthenorthwest says:

    Still on the fence on this one, but always felt there were too many missing pieces.

    Like

  9. Judgy says:

    I just feel for Slager’s family. I believe he had a wife and baby? Not to say I DON’T feel for Scott’s–his brother initially came off as quite likable before the onslaught of the BGI. But at the very least, SCOTT’S family is receiving sympathy from the media, and the world at large. Whereas the MSM couldn’t contain their glee at Dylann Roof being housed in the cell next door to Slager. There’s no proof that Slager deliberately killed Scott because he harbors the same unbridled racist hatred as Roof, but that apparently doesn’t matter. Can you imagine what it must be like to be Slager’s wife??

    (And btw, the Confederate flag didn’t kill Scott either…….).

    Like

  10. coeurdaleneman says:

    A question and a comment …

    Question: has Slager been charged with lying to authorities?

    Comment: a few times in the recent weeks, I have confronted some conservatives (online in other forums) who saw the video and made the snap judgment of murder. Because it seemed so clearcut, they didn’t bother to follow it very thereafter.

    But after only some cursory explanations about scuffle timeline and a few links to images like the ones above, I easily converted them from adamantly guilty to “hmm, I didn’t know.” None of them had ever read or seen anything about the blurry image above, let alone stills showing the taser wires.

    I have a feeling that Savage will be able to do about the same in court. To me, it’s pretty cut/dry that Slager made a reasonable decision to use deadly force while either on the ground or shortly after getting to his feet. Then, the sole issue becomes the ability to reverse such a judgment in only a second or two while still considering such things as residual imminent danger to himself or potential threat by a desperate perp to the public.

    Liked by 5 people

    • art tart says:

      coeurdaleneman ~ I answered all of your questions a few comments upthread. I don’t know why my response didn’t post under your name.

      My comment is here:

      art tart says:
      July 5, 2015 at 1:01 pm

      Like

  11. Travis says:

    I am just as guilty as many for rushing to judgement on this shooting, something I am very disappointed in doing. However, unlike Hilary and Obama supporters, I see through ideological b.s. and refuse to deny my flawed
    thinking.

    I have and will always strive for the complete truth before making a decision on matters. Thank you to The Last Refuge for helping keep me on the right path.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Plain Jane says:

    We really need to keep praying for the police, our military and all who are responsible for our protection. I really feel for the police who are targeted by the left, and Officer Slager just might be the “never let a good crisis go to waste” person.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Amy says:

    You all know this doesn’t matter to the BGI because they only saw a fraction of the tape, but in their minds, that is what happened.
    Happy 4th of July all!

    Like

    • art tart says:

      Amy ~ Happy 4th of July to you too.

      It did matter to SLED when the Video appeared after Slager made statements to LE/Detectives days before, he was on record before the video appeared. When the video appeared after Slager’s** statements, Sled has said “it confirmed some of their suspicions,” (paraphrased.,) but it showed evidence that SLED needed to confirm their questions/suspicions as to how the event occurred as they stated, “it didn’t add up.” SLED compared the video to what Slager told them, they have all Slager’s information & story, hence the immediate arrest of Slager after the video. ..

      Many claim the video helps Slager. How? Slager was immediately arrested after the video appeared confirming the answers to SLED’S questions. SLED saw the video, it didn’t help Slager one bit, he sits in jail since the video appeared.

      Liked by 1 person

  14. Amy says:

    I give you, I tried posting a photo to you all. LOL! I quit.
    Happy fourth all.

    Like

  15. Millwright says:

    I remain stuck on three points. Why would Scott ac t so hinkey on routine traffic stop ? His refusal to remain in his car following several clear and direct orders from Slager would raise any POs awareness level. Then Scott rabbits while ignoring (possible) shouts to halt. He then struggles with Slager and (apparently) managed to taser the officer; to what effect is uncertain from the video.

    Given the established chain of events why wouldn’t any PO react with lethal force – given he had every reason to suspect Scott possibly had a concealed weapon and/or posed a threat to anyone he encountered ? And one area I haven’t seen explored, is did patrol officers receive any alerts on individuals with descriptions resembling Scott wanted for violent crimes or firearms violations at shift standup ?

    Liked by 3 people

    • Armie says:

      If you go slowly through the footage of Scott leaving the car when he started to run, you’ll see what appears to be a fanny (tummy?) pack around his waist. Since a number of manufacturers make holsters disguised as fanny packs, an officer’s concern about his possible possession of a weapon wouldn’t be unjustified.

      Like

      • oldiadguy says:

        Armie,

        I don’t see it on the video. At the 2:27 mark on the video I’m watching Scott has his tee shirt out and it appears to be flat against his stomach. Can you give me a time mark that shows the fanny pack? ty

        Take Care

        Like

        • Armie says:

          I saw it on whichever full length version of the dashcam video was posted here, it’s there for a couple of video frames just as he emerges from the car. I’ll have to see if I can find that again. Just now, looking at some of the YouTube videos, they seem to be using a keyframe compression scheme that results in some of the video frames being lost when you try to step through them a frame at a time, and I haven’t managed to nail that specific frame. On a couple of them, you can see what appears to be the clasp pulling the fabric of the T shirt in the back. I’ll dig around some more and see if I can find that shot. The pack’s gray, waist high and on his front left side.

          Liked by 1 person

          • doodahdaze says:

            To quote Mick.
            “All the cops are criminals, and all the sinners saints”
            And there you have it. Pleased to meet you.

            Like

        • Armie says:

          Well, no joy. The video used here was the ABC video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Ttyxt3bjq2k The point where I saw it was just as his head passed the black flag on the white shed behind him. Can’t seem to nail that exact frame now. I’ll refrain from referring to it until such time as I can locate the frame.

          Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            I think I know what you are referring to but I think it is just a gray haze effect in the video. I’m not a video guy and don’t know how to explain it, but I noticed it in a couple of other areas of the video.

            Like

  16. littlelaughters says:

    It is always good to be reminded that SLED is political above all else.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Stephen Mac says:

    All that matters is the evidence. Which we have little of (other than the video). Until all the evidence is revealed I’m giving the police officer the benefit. I don’t buy that in broad daylight a five year veteran cop lost it and murdered a fleeing perk. I read some here calling it a “bad shoot”. “Bad shoot?”
    This went from a routine traffic stop to a deadly encounter in minutes. If the officer broke the law he will pay the consequences. If the circumstances vindicate him, he will still pay the consequences just like Darrin Wilson.

    Liked by 1 person

    • doodahdaze says:

      Agree. I think his argument will be the same one Brilo or whatever his name used. Hindsight is 20/20. But they have put a special judge in place.

      Like

    • oldiadguy says:

      Stephen Mac,

      I am one of those who have described it as a bad shoot. I conducted police shooting investigations for over 13 years so I do have some experience in the matter. Also, I have yet to read, hear or speak to a competent law enforcement officer who does not believe it was a bad shoot.

      The problem is many are confusing a bad shoot with murder. While a finding of a bad shoot can lead to criminal charges, they are two different things. I don’t have enough knowledge of South Carolina law to say what kind of criminal charges maybe appropriate in this case. Murder does seem a stretch, but I don’t know what kind of statement Slager made to the SLED investigators.

      I don’t know if Slager “lost it.” After viewing some of the car cam videos involving Slager using force against resisting suspects, I have a different hypothesis on why Slager elected to go to lethal force in this situation. Lack of proper empty hand combat training.

      When I went through the police academy in the very early 70’s we received extensive defensive tactics training. This was well before mace, oc spray or Tasers. In addition to firearms training, we were taught how to fight. We were taught how to use a nightstick both as an impact weapon and a restraining device. We learned various judo techniques, kicks, strikes and blocks. We were how to use improvised weapons. We were taught that to lose a fight may mean being executed with our own weapon. This was the old school way and was very effective.

      Things changed over the years. Women came into law enforcement and were not able to effectively use the techniques we had been taught. Bloodied suspects led to lawsuits and complaints alleging brutality. Departments started to move away from the old ways and started teaching softer and less forceful tactics. The problem was the new tactics did not work in real life and often resulted in officers getting injured.

      Fortunately, OC spray came along and later Tasers. These tools helped a lot and evened the odds for the new officers in the face of potential violent encounters. However, the problem comes in when these two tools fail to subdue the resisting suspect. If the officer does not have confidence in his ability to control the suspect with empty hand fighting techniques, he has only one opinion left, his firearm. I believe this may have happened with Slager.

      There is no information that Scott was either a trained or experienced fighter. Slager had been through a police academy and should have received some kind of empty hand combat training. Slager should have been able to handle Scott if he had proper training. However, in this case Slager’s Taser apparently failed to incapacitate Scott. During the ground fight, Slager again was not able to restrain Scott with empty hand tactics. When Scott got to his feet, pulled away and started to run, Slager had come down to one tool left, his pistol.

      Take Care

      Liked by 1 person

      • doodahdaze says:

        I understand your points. Now please explain to me the “Special Judge.” This I do not understand.

        Like

        • oldiadguy says:

          I don’t know, that is insider information. I had a similar case many years ago. It made national news for a couple of weeks and faded until the trial. During the week of the trial, the courthouse was surrounded by news trucks with their dish antennas.

          In this case the trial was moved across the state due to pre-trial publicity. We also had two retired judges come out of retirement. One of the retired judges was selected to handle the motions and to try the case. I didn’t know the actual reason for pulling in a retired judge, but heard two different versions of why. The first involved politics, no judge wanted to be involved with the case. Too many down sides. The second concerned the amount of time it was going to take to handle the motions and later the trial on the other side of the state. None of the judges wanted to tie up their dockets.

          In the case of Slager, your guess is as good as mine.

          Take Care

          Like

          • doodahdaze says:

            I can relate to not tying up the dockets. I can not relate to not asking for reasonable bail and a special judge. He should be entitled to reasonable bail unless he is a 1. Flight risk. 2. A danger to the community. I do not see a legal case for either one. He should at the least get standard bail for the charge.

            Like

          • doodahdaze says:

            BTW judges also want to give reasonable bail to free up jail cells AFAIAC. If they can. The budgets are streched to the max.

            Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        United States v. Gaudin
        In re Winship
        United States v. Obrien
        Jackson v. Virginia
        They can not even prove the elements of manslaughter…See: The State of Ohio vs. Michael Brelo.
        So again why a Special Judge? That bugs me.

        Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        Again why no reasonable bail? That bugs me too. I don,t get it.

        Like

        • Armie says:

          In SC, for a felony charge, you have to apply for bail. While everybody’s running around yelling “murder”, you’re not going to get anything but maximum bail. The average cop won’t be able to cover the cost of the bond. A little further down the line, when passions cool and more facts are known, chances of getting the kind of bail appropriate for a manslaughter charge are better. I expect you’ll see a motion for bond around the end of summer.

          Liked by 1 person

          • doodahdaze says:

            Passions have nothing to do with it. Anyone is entitled to “reasonable bail” to me this is absurd. I can not understand your point. Would you want to sit in a jail cell for a year? While your kid is born? Nahhh. Something is wrong here IMO. I just don’t know what.

            Like

          • art tart says:

            Armie ~ How could Slager get bail appropriate for manslaughter when he is charged w/murder? Are you saying that Slager’s murder charge might be comparable to what is paid for a manslaughter case down the line although he is charged w/murder by the Grand Jury?

            Like

            • doodahdaze says:

              AT don’t you understand the rules. Every defendant is entitled to “reasonable bail.” Unless state can show a flight risk or danger to the community if the defendant is bailed. Reasonable can be construed according to the defendants financial circumstance and family and personal ties to the community. Here for some reason the defendant has not even tried to get bail. Why??? This to me is fishy.

              Like

          • oldiadguy says:

            Armie,

            Thanks for the information. Are you a SC attorney? Do you know if Slager’s case is going to a grand jury, going to a prelim or does SC have different procedures? Have you heard any scuttlebutt on why the police union dropped provided legal counsel for Slager? I find that very odd. Most of the police unions I am familiar with will provide legal counsel for an officer involved in an on duty incident regardless of the charges. The way they dropped him is very strange.

            I agree a manslaughter is a more appropriate charge in this case, but I wish I knew what if anything Slager may have said during that SLED interview. The way things played out after that interview, my gut tells me that it did not go well.

            Thanks again for the info.

            Take Care

            Like

            • art tart says:

              oldiadguy shared ~ “Do you know if Slager’s case is going to a grand jury, going to a prelim or does SC have different procedures?”

              oldiadguy ~ I checked on this earlier today because I couldn’t remember exactly what Slager was charged with.

              Article:

              A grand jury indicted former North Charleston, South Carolina, police officer Michael Slager on a murder charge in connection to the April shooting death.

              “The grand jury is a formal step, but just another step in the criminal process,” Savage said.

              http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/08/us/south-carolina-slager-indictment-walter-scott/

              I don’t know if when someone is charged with “murder” if there are lesser counts such as manslaughter included on a Jury Form..

              Like

              • oldiadguy says:

                Thanks art tart, I had forgotten the case had already gone to the grand jury. If I recall correctly SLED presented the case the GJ instead of the prosecutor. Much different from Mo. The investigating agency will bring the case to the prosecutor who will then present the case to the GJ.

                I don’t know enough about the grand jury system in SC to tell you about possible lesser charges. Perhaps Armie can help.

                Take Care

                Like

            • art tart says:

              oldiadguy ~ I’ve since remembered Sundance had a thread on the murder charge.

              Sundance shared ~ “Murder was the only charge presented to the grand jury to consider for an indictment, Wilson said. The charge carries a sentence of 30 years to life in prison without parole.

              https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2015/06/08/south-carolina-grand-jury-indicts-officer-michael-slager-on-murder-charge-in-walter-scott-shooting/

              Liked by 1 person

              • doodahdaze says:

                Special Judge. Defendant does not ask for reasonable bail. Something is very fishy.

                Like

                • art tart says:

                  doodahdaze ~ I don’t understand what “Special Judge” is either, but, I didn’t know what a “Chief Judge” was before Casey Anthony’s trial in Fla. Chief Judge Belvin Perry had 64 judges under his supervision & was the Judge in CA’s case after another Judge was removed from the bench.

                  Like

                • doodahdaze says:

                  Perry was a chief judge. The other one was recused for cause and he took the case. He did a good job. He was not appointed by the Guvnah or the Bar. This thing stinks to high heaven to me. Same in Baltimore.

                  Like

                • doodahdaze says:

                  Besides that what I do not get is why the defendant does not want to get bail??? Makes no sense to me.

                  Like

            • Armie says:

              IADGuy: Not an attorney, just have a lot of experience with the system. Slager was indicted on 6/8, next hearing’s 8/21 at 2pm. I thought the first attorney’s behavior was just indefensible. All I can conclude is that he found himself representing a widely reviled defendant in a high profile case and took the first exit out… which he’s entitled to do. But the proper thing to do is just withdraw from the case. What he did, instead, was make a series of statements and appearances that were harmful to his client. That’s the mistakes Andy was talking about. You just withdraw without comment and without explanation, you don’t trash your client on your way out the door.

              I agree finally being able to see the SLED interview will be enlightening, but the thing is they’d made several statements prior to doing that interview about what Slager was claiming happened when there wasn’t any evidence he’d actually said that. So the big question about his interview is going to be whether his statements conflict with the actual evidence, or whether they just conflict with SLED’s own interpretation of what they claim he said. We’ll have to see how that plays out.

              Like

              • art tart says:

                Armie shared ~ “That’s the mistakes Andy was talking about.”

                Armie, I respect your opinion but disagree w/your opinion on Savage’s thoughts about “what Savage was referring to.” We have no idea what Savage was referring to, while I agree the first Attorney should not have spoken to the media, he stated “Slager needed a good Attorney.” Thankfully, Slager now has a good Attorney.

                The first Attorney might have felt he was lied to, the first Attorney sat through the interview w/SLED, THEN, the video appears afterwards. Slager is fired immediately from Administrative Duty, promptly arrested for murder/the first Attorney leaves Slager’s case/GJ returns an indictment of murder from evidence presented to them. The chain of events speak for themselves, imo, “oldiadguy” suspicions of what Savage was referring to support the chain of events.

                Like

          • doodahdaze says:

            I do not agree. There are rules and laws. They can not deny reasonable bail to a defendant. I must disagree.

            Like

        • oldiadguy says:

          I don’t know either, but it might have something to do with the charge of murder. Armie might know as he is from SC.

          Like

      • doodahdaze says:

        Also I do not get the diff between Brelo and Slager. Any ideas?

        Like

        • oldiadguy says:

          From what I understand in the Brelo case, the medical examiners source not ascertain which officer fired the fatal shots. Hence no murder conviction. The reasons for lesser charges I’m not clear. I think the judge said Brelo was justified in shooting at the occupants of the vehicle because the officers thought shots had been fired from the vehicle just prior to the pursuit. Being this is an Ohio case, it shouldn’t have any effect on the Slager case.

          Also, I don’t believe the issue is closed. The feds have indicated that they are investigating the case and federal charges maybe possible.

          Take Care

          Like

          • doodahdaze says:

            It was a bench trial. The defense cited the above cases to justify the shoot. It comes down to the reasonable perception of the cop at the time of the shooting. Whether under his circumstances at that moment he could have feared for his own or “others” safety and making a split second decision. But it was different than Slager in other ways. I was just trying to think of the SCOTUS cases in Slagers favor.

            Like

  18. doodahdaze says:

    This is more like protective custody of some sort. I just do not get it at all.

    Like

  19. oldiadguy says:

    “This is more like protective custody of some sort.”

    You maybe on to something here. It is easier to protect him inside a secured facility than have him with his family on the street.

    Take Care

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

w

Connecting to %s