Gun Control Process: Obama To Use Same Roadmap As Obamacare, Same Methods, Approaches, Tactics…. Including Gun Lobby Support…. And McConnell Says He Doesn’t See It….

Mitch McConnellNow that Mitch McConnell -the creepy senate galapagous tortoise guy- has insufferably stated Republicans will “study any recommendations and then see what’s appropriate to do”.   I have, with specific and complete certainty,  lost all hope for any Second Amendment firearm ownership.    Gun and firearm ownership will soon be lost.

The: “Stop The Slaughter of Our Innocent Children, Defend Our Schools, Protect the Feeble and Huddled Masses, and Be Safe in Your Country From The Radical -Violent- Blood Thirsty- Extremists” bill – will contain all manner of stuff, not just the elimination of gun ownership.

Oh, how quickly people forget.  Obamacare included the takeover of college education finance too, not just a healthcare takeover.

Humor in NatureSUNDAY NON-FUNNY  Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell federal [says] spending and the country’s debt will dominate the congressional agenda for the next three months, and that debate about potential gun legislation in the wake of the Connecticut school shooting will take a back seat.

The Kentucky lawmaker tells ABC’s “This Week” that lawmakers will wait to see what an Obama administration review led by Vice President Joe Biden might propose. McConnell says Congress will need to study any recommendations and then see what’s appropriate to do.

But he says that over the coming months, nothing much beyond the country’s finances will occupy the attention of Congress.  (more)

Really?,…. ((insert desk thumping laughing smilie here))  Just like when Obamacare was instituted rammed through by any means neccessary, and the national unemployment -ie. jobs bills- were occupying the attention of congress, right?    No, wait…

We are so screwed.

oz Obama 2WASHINGTON DC - President Obama plans to ally himself with big business once again by using crony capitalist tactics to pass gun control just as he used them to pass Obamacare. In this case, Obama reportedly plans to make sure that the new gun control law benefits big businesses that sell weapons.

“[T]he White House is developing strategies to work around the National Rifle Association that one source said could include rallying support from Wal-Mart and other gun retailers for measures that would benefit their businesses,” The Washington Post reports.

“Wal-Mart and other major gun retailers may have an incentive to support closing a loophole that allows people to bypass background checks if they purchase firearms at gun shows or through other types of private sales,” the Post explained, citing a source who works with the Obama administration on gun issues.

Obama used the same tactic when passing his health care law, when Jim Messina (the White House deputy chief of staff, at the time, who went on to manage the 2012 presidential campaign) negotiated with the drug industry to get them to pay for pro-Obamacare television ads. (Keep reading)

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126 Responses to Gun Control Process: Obama To Use Same Roadmap As Obamacare, Same Methods, Approaches, Tactics…. Including Gun Lobby Support…. And McConnell Says He Doesn’t See It….

  1. Coast says:

    Here is what I want to know…if this happens, if laws are passed that essentially nullify the second amendment, what can we do now to ensure or to at least attempt to counteract enforcement? How do we start, develop and implement a bottom up approach to ensure that local law enforcement, county officials, mayors and governors just say…”NOT HAPPENING”? What can be done to ensure that our military, both at home and abroad will not participate in removing our rights, and in fact will stand against anyone choosing to enforce unconstitutional action?

    I don’t want, in any way, to engage or fight local police or “law enforcement” people. I want them to be on my side…the side of the constitution. I want governors to say…sorry Congress and Obama…we don’t recognize laws that remove the second amendment. How do we go about getting this ball moving? Is that anyone (organization) doing this today?

    • howie says:

      They won’t. Guns will be outlawed. Gun Owners are going to be cast as the new KKK. Notice all reporting. GunMan, Shooter, Gun weilding suspect. Not murderer or criminal. It will be done in the name of “Gun Safety.” Insurance and liability is another avenue. I can see it now. The new Barney Fyfe Militia. Maybe citizens will be allowed to keep one bullet locked in a lock box. Along with their testicles.

      • Coast says:

        I have no doubt that “they” will try to cast gun owners in as negative image as possible…but my point is to generate resistance. I’m not just going to “roll over” on this, and I don’t think a large percentage will either. Think of all the gun owners, gun shops, shooting ranges, hunters, manufacturing shops, etc. We need to take the enforcement ability from their control…if anything passes which I don’t consider a “done deal” as some may. Is the solution to do nothing? I wonder if our military would be willing to “stand down” if Congress even threatens to destroy the second amendment?

        • howie says:

          Ahhh, Dunno. But with the collectivists in power it may come to that I think. I was robbed in the small island of Barbados at gunpoint. The Island has strict gun control. All Guns must be kept locked up in a “Gun Club.” Ya can’t take them home. For sport shooters. Of course the robber knew I would be unarmed. They have even Banned Camo Clothing. If the 2nd goes, so will all the rest eventually. Appeals to SCOTUS will be futile with John Robert’s the Bush pick as Chief Justice. Hmmmmm. The writing is on the wall. No other industrialized country has a 2nd amendment. I can hear it now. At this point I am glad to be so old. I got to live in a free country when I was young. Wow. The memories.

          • justfactsplz says:

            Yes we are old but what about our children and grandchildren? When they do away with the second amendment can states pull away from the Union? This cannot happen without a fight.

            • howie says:

              That is the perfect point. They should be trying to repeal it if they hate it. Then the fight would be at the right level. An Act of Congress or a court ruling can not change or repeal an amendment to the constitution.

              • John McLachlan says:

                Does the Constitution confer rights or does it merely enumerate intrinsic human rights which pre-exist and are independant of government?
                If the former, the government can revoke the right to self-defence; if the latter, the government can pass laws, but they are only valid insofar as the government is able to enforce them.
                Surely, if the government passes legislation which violates the Constitution, then the legislators who vote for such legislation are de facto domestic enemies and are guilty of treason.

        • Arkindole says:

          Outen the web via WSRA:

          “What will be the likely model of american insurrection, if “gun control” doesn’t “go well?”

          “The american insurrection …. where it will be fought ….

          “The american insurrection …. can the “elites” take refuge in “hiding” ….”

          Read all.
          Think small.
          Make a plan.

          The convo/dialog is over out there. If something, anything, goes through to infringe on 2A, things will happen.

        • PatriotUSA says:

          I am already a far right conservative extremist, a racist, homophobic, islamophobic, cling to my scripture, guns, love the Constitution, the Founding fathers, am just about to turn 60, white male, drive a big AMERICAN car, dislike environazis, political correctness, excessive diversity and multiculturalism and now this. To my last breath or drop of blood spilled, I am an AMERICAN and am so glad I grew up in the age of AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM. Most of the younger generation are sadly ignorant, want it now and free without work or effort. I am already hated, loathed, vilified and now will have one more target on my back. This one shoots back and seldom misses. I will not cough up my guns, remaining freedom or liberty without resistance or a fight. If it comes to this then this will be my legacy and I would not want it any other way.

          The solution is do what we can with the time we have left. Darkening times call for drastic measures that will eventually shine light back on what was taken from us. We must look in mirror and see that we (not so much those who tread here) have allowed so much to be stripped from us, bit by bit. I weep for my kids and the future generations.

          “A gov’t big enough to give you everything you want is a gov’t big enough to take from you everything you have.” — Gerald Ford

          • justfactsplz says:

            You sir, are a true Patriot indeed. Like minded men and women will make a stand with you, for love of country.

  2. brutalhonesty says:

    didnt know what thread to put this on so ill put it here since its newest:
    RedFlag News
    49 minutes ago
    Barack Obama’s Twitter ‘photo of the day’ is just plain weird, demands captioning… BTW, I thought Hillary was sick?

    The open thread is a daily thread, provided for the purpose of posting things that don’t fit in other threads. Admin

    • stellap says:

      This isn’t the White House photo of the day, I don’t believe. This Facebook post isn’t official.

      ADD: Found it on Twitter. It is on the @barackobama account, which is the political twitter account for Obama2012. It was posted on Jan 5, when Obama was in Hawaii. Doesn’t say when the pic was taken.

  3. Well the democrats do not control the house. That is a detail missing from the obamacare plan. So if the house grows a pair this can still be stopped.

  4. lovemygirl says:

    After witnessing the tactics used by this administration I am deeply concerned that they will at a minimum severely gut our 2nd Amendment. I’m just wondering if it may be a good thing they are trying early on before Obama can appoint 2 more Judges to the Supreme Court and the possibility whatever they pass may be overturned.

  5. sundance says:

    Odd, yet eye opening convo this morning with a neighbor. Discussing gun controls…. he said, the economy is in need of attention – they won’t be working on gun control.


    Wow, that is a typical retort from the electorate who does not understand this presidency. Yet, it opens the door to blinder removal.

    It doesn’t matter what “needs attention”…. that’s not their purpose for winning elections. This crew focuses like a lazer on “their ideological needs”, not the national need. That is why during the employment crisis and contraction they focused on takeover of healthcare. That is also why during the fiscal crisis (now) they are focusing on “gun control”.

    The stuff needing attention is like gnats around their head that just get swatted away while they focus on their priority. Healthcare takeover done. Banking takeover done. Now on to gun removal.

    After that gun stuff is accomplished they will move to another long yearned for leftist goal…. prolly carbon trading.

    The economy, employment, debt, budget issues, et al are all just mere annoyances.

    Once you understand that you can free your mind.

    • Brook says:

      I think immigration is # 2. Amnesty guarantees a liberal super majority. With that in place, they will never again have to worry about pesky Tea Party members of Congress.

    • jwoop66 says:

      The left is driven by ideology as much as any religious zealot. They will need to be forcibly stopped.

  6. Brook says:

    Okay, folks, I know this is going to be hard for some to swallow, but my research into Sandy Hook leads me to say with 95% certainty it was a staged event, and the speed at which lawmakers are trying to grab guns is another big clue. The most important piece of “evidence” that didn’t fit was the Honda Civic (Lanza’s mother’s car). Problem is — it wasn’t her car. It belonged to a known felon named Chris Rodia. We know this from the police scanner audio you can hear on YT. This is far too large a mistake to stand for weeks now by the media.

    I believe Chris Rodia was a “handler” for assets like Lanza that can be used in these situations. The CIA uses a drug called scopolamine. It is prescribed in low doses for nausea. In large doses it renders you completely incapable of making judgements or decisions, all while outwardly appearing normal. So, for example, if someone suggested you go with them to clean out your bank account, you willingly and helpfully comply. The effects last 72 hours, and the victim has no memory of what transpired during that time. This is how you can pull of a “lone nutter” shooting with a guy like Lanza and Holmes who has repeatedly stated he has no memory of what took place in Aurora. You drug them, give them orders they will follow without question, and any collateral evidence of your presence is all magically swept away by the media. Then you use said tragedy to grab the guns and get the public on your side.

    • Coast says:

      So what are you saying…that Lanza was under a drug influence? That there was another shooter? And if the govt had a hand in this, how did they find someone like Lanza to participate in this awful crime? I certainly don’t trust the govt, or the media, but this to me is a stretch.

        • Brook says:

          Yes, Holmes has complained about his shrink being evil and trying to “program” him. Interesting going back a few years to the Kip Kinkel 1998 shooting. His father complained that Kip would come home from his shrink sessions demanding a gun. Very odd. Could shrinks be recruiting patsies?

          I understand the stretch — I spent a few weeks on the couch drinking heavily, when all this hit me in a moment of clarity. The survivors all reported seeing a man in a mask. Okay, was that Lanza or not? Were there 2 men in masks? There were 2 men taken into custody by the police, and they totally disappeared from the official narrative. You can also hear their apprehension on the YT police scanner audio. How can the media ignore 2 suspects and get the ownership of the car wrong? These have extreme relevance.

          We need to understand what it would take to pull something like this off. A scrawny, frail, and terribly shy kid wearing a mask that is hard to see through, shoots a locked door open, then kills 27 people. Kinkel wore no mask at his shooting and only killed 2, wounding 17, after firing off over 50 rounds. This just doesn’t seem plausible, unless he had some help.

          There is a lot more esoteric evidence, including predictive programming with regard to this shooting, but those threads take too long to explain here.

          • howie says:

            I wonder if there is a connection between all the shrinks?

            • Brook says:

              Yes, and the demand for more mental health treatment is also b.s. All these shooters were seeing shrinks. They were getting care — or were they? I know a lot more on this, but really people can only handle so much. It’s best just to stick to the facts we know, and we know the reporting on this event looks like another Dealy Plaza cover-up so far.

              • howie says:

                Well I am just thinking. I have seen the pictures of them. They have a similar expression on their faces. I wonder. Is it possible to wipe out a persons conscience with drugs and therapy? I heard someplace long ago about a treatment that did that. With Sodium Pentathol. It was to tear their thought process down to the ground blank out the mind, and then bring it back, in the desired way, or something like that.

                • Brook says:

                  It’s called trauma-based mind control. Way complicated to explain, but basically it involves subjecting a human to such extreme torture their mind literally splits off into another personality — thus inducing multiple personality disorder. If you know what you are doing when the split occurs, you can program the new personality. These techniques have been around since the Egyptian slave training days, but modern technology has taken it up to a whole other level. Research MK Ultra mind control and Monarch slaves.

                  • howie says:

                    Do they have strange facial expressions? Strange but similar?

                  • Brook says:

                    By-passing the conscience is the goal of MKULTRA programming. That way you get absolute obedience. Yes, it is possible, and Americans need to understand this is very real. If you want to see celebrity examples of a programmed multiple: Britney Spears, and Lady Gaga.

          • dapits says:

            Read this through completely and pay close attention to the highlighted portions. You will find that explains a lot of your questions.
            Communist Goals (1963)
            Documention below
            Congressional Record–Appendix, pp. A34-A35
            January 10, 1963
            Current Communist Goals
            Thursday, January 10, 1963

            Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.
            At Mrs. Nordman’s request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following “Current Communist Goals,” which she identifies as an excerpt from “The Naked Communist,” by Cleon Skousen:
            [From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]
            1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.
            2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.
            3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.
            4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.
            5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.
            6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.
            7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.
            8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.
            9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.
            10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.
            11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)
            12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.
            13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.
            14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.
            15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.
            16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.
            17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.
            18. Gain control of all student newspapers.
            19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.
            20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions.
            21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.
            22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”
            23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”
            24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.
            25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.
            26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”
            27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”
            28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”
            29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.
            30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”
            31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.
            32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.
            33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.
            34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.
            35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.
            36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.
            37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.
            38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].
            39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.
            40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.
            41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.
            42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use ["]united force["] to solve economic, political or social problems.
            43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.
            44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.
            45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

            • howie says:

              They have come a long way baby. They have taken the Democrat Party for sure. #39 is being done now. They have done so much already. What next? They forgot….never call communism communism, or a communist a communist.

    • mung says:

      It was actually all orchestrated by Santa because he was 20 presents short.

      You know people already think that this site is full of conspiracy theorist without stuff like this being posted on here. It doesn’t help out position on issues to give them more ammo. Lanza had a text book personality disorder that went untreated. His mother was trying to get him admitted and he found out what she was up to and decided to make her pay for that. It is really as simple as that. As usual people in power seized the opportunity to push their agenda. While I know the government does some things that are beyond belief. No one is going to be part of killing kids like that.

      • howie says:

        I think all of these people have a common thread. Treatment by a shrink. Their eyes have the same look. It might be a link.

      • Brook says:

        Maybe you missed the fact I presented. That Honda Civic was not Lanza’s mother’s car. She lived in a multi-million dollar home. People like that don’t drive Civics. So, maybe you can explain how Lanza got behind the wheel of a car owned by a known felon? If you were a cop on this case, would you be allowing the media to keep reporting the facts wrong?

        • ctdar says:

          I listened to the 30:20 spot on police scanner where the license plate was read off & matched with Rodia. That section from scanner sounds dubbed imho, when the “policeman” read off the plate (no background noise at that point too) he did not use the phonetic alphabet (as police do) as one did earlier on another call that involved calling in a plate.
          Btw everything about Rodia is correct as I have read the stories in local papers for last number of years. He & his 19 yr old niece caught stealing copper wire made news for weeks last summer. He was also associated with another Norwalk family, the Uzars that got busted with major arsenal of weapons a few years back.

        • mung says:

          Put the tinfoil back on your head, it will keep the government from reading your thoughts. By the way, everything you say was made moot when you said “I spent a few weeks on the couch drinking heavily, when all this hit me in a moment of clarity.”

          I can also tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no secret network of psychiatrists and social workers out there. Maybe just maybe, the reason that the people who are getting help from psychiatrists have these paranoid delusions is because they are, oh, I don’t know, paranoid and delusional?

          • Brook says:

            It’s a natural reaction to be depressed by an unpleasant realization, especially one with these conotations. You’ve yet to answer any of the outstanding questions about multiple shooters, conflicting victim reports, and bizarre official behavior. Maybe you’d just rather accept the official version and move on — nothing to see here. Some of us have valid questions. We have a right to ask and get answers. Step aside, if you don’t want to be part of the process.

      • WeeWeed says:

        Mung, honey, I luv ya, but you do NOT know your government.

        • howie says:

          See: Fast and Furious.

          • WeeWeed says:

            Funny youse should mention Eric Holder, Howie. See also: Waco, TX

            • howie says:

              They are attempting to circumvent the constitution. By act of congress. It the 2nd amendment was repealed so be it. But this gun grab is wrong. Any amendment can be repealed. Any new amendment can be adopted. By the people of the United States. They could propose adoption of the communist manifesto, repeal the first amendment. Anything. But Nooooo! They have to pervert it. I will oppose any attempt to do so.

        • justfactsplz says:

          I am with you on this one. I luv him too and agree with him most of the time, but not so much this time. Mung, the government is more evil than you think, pal. I know because of their involvement in George’s case. Everyone told me there was no conspiracy but there truly is.

          • mung says:

            I agree that in George’s case there is involvement from the government and that things have been twisted and perverted for money and political gain. But what is being said about Sandy Hook is like saying that the government made Trayvon attack George or George shoot Trayvon to start talk about racial profiling. I am sure that I could find enough information to make a half baked story proving that was the case, but it wouldn’t actually have any teeth to it.

            • howie says:

              Have you looked in to the CRS? That one opened my eyes up wide. Especially when I found out the agents will be prosecuted if they testify about their activities. Look in to it and then call back.

        • michellc says:

          Shouldn’t folks have figured out after Ruby Ridge, Waco, the numerous misdeeds that don’t gain national attention that our government is not to be underestimated?

          I wonder how many people were called conspiracy theorists before we won our freedom?

          BTW, I’ve learned this evening that several FFL are getting visits from the ATF. Could just be a coincidence and just that time of year, but even some who have had recent visits are getting their paperwork checked.

        • mung says:

          Think about this guys, who is going to be involved in something like this and actually follow through with it without talking. Fast and Furious wasn’t kids. Now Waco, that was a huge screw up and bad attempt at a cover up. It wasn’t like the government set out to kill everyone there. Similar to Jonestown. The difference is that in the case of Waco the government had no business messing with the Branch Dividians at all. They weren’t doing anything to harm anyone.

          My point is there is a big leap from stupidity to plots to kill children in order to make the public side with gun control. Sometimes there are just people out there that are bat shit crazy and do crazy things, without any assistance from the government.

          • michellc says:

            Just maybe these drugs are causing it?

            Someone linked to an article about several shooters on different drugs and sometimes within a few weeks committed murder?
            What the heck are we doing giving drugs to kids that list a side effect as homicidal thoughts?
            I know a kid who was prescribed a drug for acne. He was a normal kid, no psychotic problems, he became suicidal within days of taking the drug.
            Just maybe drug companies and the doctors that prescribe need to take some responsibility.
            Call me crazy, but giving a child a pill for acne that causes suicidal thoughts should never happen.
            Call me crazy, but giving children drugs that can cause these thoughts should never happen.
            Giving someone who already has mental issues drugs that cause delusions, depression and homicidal thoughts is crazy.

            So maybe there isn’t a network of people orchestrating this, but there doesn’t seem to be a network of people too concerned with drugs listing homicidal thoughts as a side effect either.

            As for the government, there is absolutely nothing I would put past the government and one of the main reasons is your reaction, it’s too crazy and out there for anyone to ever take seriously. That makes it more likely than less imo for them to try new and different things because who would ever believe the government could or would do such a thing.

          • sundance says:

            …….. “It wasn’t like the government set out to kill everyone there”…….

            Seriously? Um, tell that to all them dead people.

            If the gov’t did not want to kill them, they wouldn’t have. It really IS that simple.

            I guess all those tanks, rockets, machine guns and stuff just ran there by themselves and the government was desperately trying to stop them machines from acting on their own and actually firing, or something…..

            • mung says:

              The original intent in Waco was not to kill the women and children. Very poor tactical decisions were made and escalated in a very bad way. I am very upset with the way it was handled and blame the government and namely Janet Reno for the deaths there. But I don’t think it was premeditated or a illuminati plot. That is the difference. I can be disgusted with the government, I can blame them for being idiots, I can believe that the cover things up, I know that they are opportunistic and narcissistic. But not everything is a huge plot by a secret organization who controls our every move.

              • michellc says:

                How do you know what the original intent was?
                If the intent was to just get them to come out peacefully, then why would you surround the place with tanks, rockets and machine guns?

                As long as the majority of the people believe there is no way the government could do this or do that, how could they keep that secret, how could they get that many people on board, etc. the easier it is for them to do things. My theory is it doesn’t take a lot of people in the know, just people who follow orders without question and never know why they’re doing what they’re doing.

                I do not believe any of the shootings were fake. I don’t think the government had anything to do with any of them, but I wouldn’t stake my life on it and I wouldn’t be shocked if it was proven they did.

                I’ve often heard the reason Hitler was able to do what he did was people didn’t believe he could do it or get away with it and thought it was all crazy talk.

              • Obamao says:

                “The original intent in Waco was not to kill the women and children.”

                BUT, that is exactly what they chose to so when advised otherwise by military ops who declined assistance.

                As YOU said – they are idiots, cover things up, and are opportunistic and narcissistic. But, to what end?

                What you refuse to see is that they are NOT a secret organization who controls our every move, they are quite open about it all.

      • justfactsplz says:

        Just wanted to say you will enjoy and learn a lot at your CWP class Wed. I had mine yesterday and learned a lot. They will also give you an opportunity on the spot to join the NRA, which we did.

        • howie says:

          I was thinking about it. You should not hand a loaded gun to someone who knows nothing about it. I was taught as a child how to treat a gun. Most who had them were. We really did not need them for self defense that much or to protect against a tyrant. Just for hunting and fun. A gun must always be treated as if it is loaded and on a hair trigger. I was taught never to point one at a human unless you were going to shoot them. Also never shoot an animal unless you were going to eat it. I learned that the hard way when my Grandfather made me eat a boiled Blue Jay. There is an answer here but it is not an Act of Congress or a ruling by a judge. In the aftermath of the massacre. Those trying to force the issue have bad intentions.

          • justfactsplz says:

            I was taught gun safety early on. I have hunted but have not been involved with hand guns. Every gun should always be treated as if it was loaded and never pointed towards anyone. We do not shoot what we won’t eat either.

          • Brook says:

            Mung is young in his studies. He will get there, eventually. There is a whole other spiritual component to this that he’s clearly unaware of. To each his own, but Mung will have a hard time keeping up in a serious discussion of these issues.

        • mung says:

          I am sure it will be a great course.

    • justfactsplz says:

      I have thought from the beginning that this was staged. Didn’t someone see a man wearing camo pants and a black shirt leaving the scene and going into the woods?

    • PatriotUSA says:

      Not far fetched at all Brook and I thought this early in the game, very early. But then I am just one of those conspiracy theory junkies. Not really, just did a lot of reading and digging and came up with the same suspicions and too many things do not add up!

  7. thefirstab says:

    Wasn’t there a connection in that both Lanza’s and CO shooter’s fathers were witnesses in some banking scandal or some such? This is getting super scary. I believe this was brought up on the Sanfy Hook threads.

  8. waltherppk says:

    When the FEMA camps (concentration camps) were being given attention and expressions of concern there was widespread speculation such facilities were built in preparation for a roundup for deportation of millions of illegal aliens. However, now that Obama has given those criminals “amnesty” it appears the attention of the gestapo er I mean Homeland Security and the planned usefulness of the FEMA concentration camps must be intended for a different “class” of people other than illegals since now those illegals have been given amnesty. Hmmm……there are no coincidences. So if the attention of the gestapo and the concentration camps is not to be tasked to deal with illegals …then what other likely “class” of persons will be receiving the attention of those “government resources” being “tasked” ???? Isn’t it plain enough what the gestapo and the concentration camps were planned to be tasked to do in the first place, no matter what false pretenses were made about their true purpose ? Why would DHS order 450 million rounds of hollow point ammunition unless they thought they had a really serious “homeland security problem” which could be addressed by such “prepping” ? Maybe a New York newspaper which is so big on publishing “security related information” could be more helpful by publishing the home addresses and particulars for every DHS agent since it would seem apparent to anyone having two brain cells that they are engaged in a seditious plot which ought to be of great concern to everybody who happens not to be an advocate of a gestapo roaming the land in service of a police state having ambitions to fill up concentration camps as part of some “final solution” to the second amendment “problem” presented by free citizens and oath keepers who are not of the communist butcher or Nazi butcher persuasion but who are traditional Americans having some honor instead.

    • howie says:

      It is pretty clear. It is happening here. All those who survived say the same thing. There will be no America to save America. Thus I predict the dawn of the new dark ages. Uggghhh!

    • ctdar says:

      Everyone should read this & pass on to as many people as you know.

      As Kitty said so eloquently in the last paragraph:
      “America is still a Christian nation, no matter what Obama says. God is still on the throne. He did not fail us in Austria when the Americans liberated us and He will save America.”

      • howie says:

        Good on that. It is pretty much down to that again. I don’t know if he will save America, from America.

        • ctdar says:

          ok so give up like you Howie? Instead of being negative on every single post you ought to take a page from this woman, she survived Hitler.

          • howie says:

            I do. I am not trying to just be negative. I am trying to make the point that we must rely on the constitution. We are not. Crossfire style arguments do not address reality. The question should be…whether the 2nd amendment should be repealed? Not…how can we weasel around that pesky constitution. I am negative about the way people are approaching the issue. The founders actually made the constitution to be amended. Not weaseled by Marxists. The issue is the 2nd Amendment…not gun control. That is just how I see it. I oppose the repeal. I can argue that point.

          • howie says:

            Constitution of the United States of America, Article V: The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article, and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of it’s equal Suffrage in the Senate.
            So, An amendment removing an amendment is a repeal.

          • michellc says:

            We have to do something and I 1000% agree the first and last thing we always have to do is talk to God and ask for his mercy. However, he gave us brains as well and we need to use them to figure out how to help ourselves as well. I much prefer the route of trying to put pressure on our reps, even if you have dem reps, get enough people and they’ll pay attention, they might laugh and do what they want, but at least you’ll give them pause.

            • howie says:

              They must follow the law. If they want the guns the repeal the 2nd amendment. All this other stuff is crapola. We must get back to the constitution.

              • michellc says:

                I’m fine with arguing that and will pass that along as something to put in front of the reps.

              • Sharon says:

                But howie, see, here’s the problem again… say “they must follow the law.”

                Really? As long as the check and balance functions of our Democratic Republic are no longer functioning, they will not follow the law.

                “We must get back to the constitution.” Again. Great statement. True. And utterly useless.

                The faucets are running full blast, the threads are stripped, and it really looks like you are absolutely exhausted as you keep mopping the floor based on your refusal to acknowledge that the threads are stripped and the faucets are running full blast.

          • canadacan says:

            I agree with you ctdr there’s too much damn negativity on this post realism is 1 thing but you curl up and di
            e is another. Enough is enough.

    • michellc says:

      BTW, reading that was like our country looking into a mirror.

  9. ftsk420 says:

    I came across a pic yesterday and would like to post it here. It’s a pic of James Holmes lawyer

  10. 22tula says:

    “Another Beneficiary of a Disarmed Populace”
    by Moonbattery – January 6, 2012

  11. Brook says:

    There is a dark scenario that has been planned, but it is important to know this cabal is not all-powerful. They only get away with what they are allowed. Unfortunately, we have been giving them the authority and power, and this has to stop for real change to happen. Ultimately, this is a war for your mind, which is why media and entertainment is of huge importance to them. As much of a cliche as it sounds, the revolution begins in your own mind. Just the very act of waking up, taking responsibility for your life and actions, and refusing to be ruled any longer is a powerful step. We are 7 billion, and the power structure is maybe 1 to 2% of that. There is also a light scenario that could play out. The Keshe Foundation appears to be a part of this — slowly releasing the hidden technologies that can transform our world. So, we have to decide what kind of world we want and be very clear on that. You can be assured, they know exactly what they want. A Hunger Games scenario would suit them just fine. Be clear in your thoughts and your intentions and above all — be honorable.

  12. StJohn says:

    Richard Henry Lee, Additional Letters from the Federal Farmer, 1788:

    “Militias, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves and include all men capable of bearing arms. To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”

    Tench Coxe, writing as “the Pennsylvanian” in the Philadelphia Federal Gazette, 1788:

    “The power of the sword, say the minority of Pennsylvania, is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for the powers of the sword are in the hands of the yeomanry of America from 16 to 60. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared with any possible army, must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are the militia? Are they not ourselves? Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each man against his own bosom? Congress has no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.”

    • howie says:

      Nice. And I agree with him. This is the reason for the 2nd amendment. Until lawfully repealed. Make them fight on constitutional ground. Not in the media wormhole. If they want Gun Control they must repeal the 2nd amendment. I am ready for that fight.

      • Brook says:

        They would never go there — too messy and public. It’s a lot easier to quietly make ammo scarce and way more expensive. We’ve got to watch Obama’s EO’s like a hawk. He will not bother with Congress on this issue.

  13. 22tula says:

    “*Graphic* Demand A Plan – Demand Celebrities Go F*CK Themselves!”

  14. ctdar says:

    The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty.
    – Adolf Hitler

    • howie says:

      Gabby Giffords is now starting the new Brady Bunch. I discovered that Judge John Roll who was killed in the attack was the original Judge who struck down the Brady Bill. Coincidence?

  15. Pingback: How to Fix the National Debt the Liberal Way | BLOGGING IOWADAWG STYLE

  16. Brook says:

    Well, the mystery of who owned the Honda Civic Lanza drove continues. The judge has put the search warrants under seal for 90 days. They’ve clearly stated the BMW was owned by Nancy Lanza but refuse to give a registered owner’s name for the Civic. The Civic is the car in the video with the shotgun being removed from the trunk. Stay tuned.

    • sundance says:

      Keep us up to speed on this…. you can send your summation, including links, citations and provable details to us via the email and we will consider for a post…. it is intriguing – but only the aspect of the car ownership. Thanks.

      • ctdar says:

        Here you go SD, as per Norwalk, CT police, the black civic Lanza drove belonged to a relative and not Rodia who has been getting death threats since bloggers from various conspiracy sites (mentioned in article) sent out unverified info seemingly for sport. Rodias alibi during 12/14? He was getting a warning from Greenwich,CT Police Officer for a driving infraction at approximately the same time.

        • Brook says:

          Not so fast. Who has confirmed the car belonged to a relative? The same police that told us for hours the shooting rifle was found in the Honda’s back seat, and the media that told us Lanza’s mom worked at the school, and that Adam’s brother was at the scene? We can’t believe anything we’re told by officials in this case, unfortunately. License numbers are traceable. I’m going to wait to see whose name this license # is traced to. Until there is confirmation from state DOT, the jury is out. The only possible explanation for the seal is that it may in fact belong to Adam’s bro, and they are trying to shield him from any questioning for some reason.

  17. Brook says:

    To go further with the official narrative, Adam supposedly is angry at his mom and shoots her at home. Her BMW is in the garage, but he drives a “relatives” car to the school. What was the relatives car doing at Nancy’s house? Were they there with their car, or did they just leave it at her house with the keys?

    You have to ask “does this make sense” a lot these days. So far, the car is a solid piece of evidence that something is not right here. It doesn’t make sense and bears following up. The fact that not a single media pro is asking this very basic question is troubling.

  18. howie says:

    Here is some good reading for those with time on their hands. Printz v. U.S. (521 U.S. 898).

    The start:

    117 S.Ct. 2365
    Supreme Court of the United States
    898Jay PRINTZ, Sheriff/Coroner, Ravalli County, Montana, Petitioner,
    Richard MACK, Petitioner,
    Nos. 95-1478, 95-1503.Argued Dec. 3, 1996.Decided June 27, 1997.
    County sheriff sought to enjoin enforcement of provisions of Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act imposing requirements on chief law enforcement officers (CLEO). The United States District Court for the District of Montana, Charles C. Lovell, J., 854 F.Supp. 1503, held background check requirement to be unconstitutional. Another county sheriff brought separate action to declare Brady Act unconstitutional. The United States District Court for the District of Arizona, John M. Roll, J., 856 F.Supp. 1372, found that background search requirement was unconstitutional. Parties appealed, and cases were consolidated. The Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit, 66 F.3d 1025, reversed. Certiorari was granted. The Supreme Court, Justice Scalia, held that: (1) obligation to conduct background checks on prospective handgun purchasers imposed unconstitutional obligation on state officers to execute federal laws; (2) sheriffs were not in position to challenge Act’s requirements that CLEOs destroy handgun-applicant statements and give would-be purchasers written statements of reasons for determining their ineligibility to receive handguns; and (3) there were no plaintiffs before Court who could challenge provisions requiring firearms dealers to forward to CLEO notice of contents of handgun-applicant statement, and to wait five business days before consummating sale.
    Justices O’Connor and Thomas filed concurring opinions.
    Justice Stevens filed a dissenting opinion in which Justices Souter, Ginsburg, and Breyer joined.
    Justice Souter filed a dissenting opinion.
    Justice Breyer filed a dissenting opinion in which Justice Stevens joined.

    Now Judge Roll I think was shot along with The Congresswoman but was killed. But Scalia’s opinion in the case is great. In effect it seems the Countu Sheriff has more power in many areas than the President. The President is limited in many areas if checked. He is just not being checked by other elected officials.
    I saw where Sheriff Joe gave the what for to ole Piers on TV. Told him he was gonna arm his Posse with full auto….:)

    • Brook says:

      Obama can take care of this with a few more SCOTUS appointments. He already silenced Roll.

      • howie says:

        I thought that was interesting coincidence. At the time I think I remember some thought that he was the murder target.

        • Brook says:

          He was primary. The secondary targets were Sara Palin and Glenn Beck. It was just bizarre for a county sherrif to stand up and blame right-wing rhetoric for the shooting. Then the media picked up the ball and ran with it, despite the ridiculous accusation. Look at what we’ve heard out of the unions the past few months. Their rhetoric has been highly incendiary. Palin faded quickly from the public spotlight after that, and Beck got fired from Fox. Roll, Palin, Beck. Mission accomplished.

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