Political Back Channel Communication – “when the case don’t fit, you must acquit” – Discussions of How To Acquit Surface….

And Mark O’Mara says “no deals”!

George Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, says his client will not accept a plea deal to avoid going to trial on a murder charge in the death of Trayvon Martin.

On Thursday, O’Mara told In Session correspondent Jean Casarez that he would not allow his client to accept a plea deal. “I wouldn’t plea someone who is innocent. So I think the answer is pretty easily no,” said O’Mara.    (continue reading)

Behind the scenes of the fraudulent legal case against George Zimmerman, at the highest reaches of State and FEDERAL law enforcement, the powers that exist are strategically planning how best to walk away from (drop) the case.   There is no “there” there; and subsequently how to deploy resources for crisis management.

As Jack Cashill aptly summarized on the pending acquittal:

A reckless and corrupt media made Trayvon a cause célèbre, but the obfuscation  will end in court.  There, the truth will out.  When it does, the major media  will lose a good chunk of whatever credibility they have left, and our nation  may lose a good chunk of its urban real estate.

Numerous hours of discussion, and vast opinions are being sought.    Eric Holder quietly dispatched additional Federal “Peacekeepers” (DOJCRS) earlier this week to Sanford Florida, and also to Miami Florida, for resource coordination and information gathering.    In addition the State Attorney General and Federal DOJ have been in communication for an exit strategy.

DOJ-CRS

In Miami, civic leaders appear increasingly worried that Zimmerman could be acquitted or have the charges against him dismissed on self-defense grounds. The Community Relations Board on Tuesday announced plans to create a youth advisory board and hold a young people’s summit to address how the community should react if Zimmerman is found not guilty.  (link)

They see the writing on the wall.

The Community Relations Service is the Department’s “peacemaker” for community conflicts and tensions arising from differences of race, color, and national origin. Created by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, CRS is the only Federal agency dedicated to assist State and local units of government, private and public organizations, and community groups with preventing and resolving racial and ethnic tensions, incidents, and civil disorders, and in restoring racial stability and harmony.    (about)

Jesse Jackson Al SharptonUnfortunately, because of the insufferable race-baiting, and seriously flawed media reporting on the case, the exit is going to be very difficult.     National representatives of  NAN (Sharpton), NAACP (Jealous), and Rainbow Push (Jackson) have been contacted for leverage.   However, interestingly insiders are reporting the aforementioned are, out of an abundance of caution, reluctant to engage in further discussion.   They want nothing to do with the case any more.

Apparently no-one is quite sure whether this reluctance on the professional race-baiting class is based on concerns for litigation, or concerns for their national image being diminished.    However, one thing is certain;  Their motive is NOT because they feel there is any substantive value, or merit, in continuing to push the “Justice For Trayvon” narrative.   Quite the opposite now appears true - the risk is in the sunlight.

Neither Al Sharpton, Ben Jealous or Jesse Jackson want to be on the ground -or in the vicinity-  when the acquittal is announced.     “Saving face” now appears to be the primary motivation of the team.

Regardless of reasoning, municipal leaders have been contacted by both State and Federal officials to shift their “contingency plans” into more of an immediate “crisis management” effort and urgency.

holder,%20sharpton%20%20ap_0One opinion/option floated was to use the Christmas holiday as a buffer, and acquittal take place right around Christmas Eve.   Another conversation has advice waiting to see what the next hearing on December 11th contributes to the overall public opinion.

Mr. Thomas Battles, the Southern regional director for Community Relations Service, has a pre-established relationship with Special Prosecutor Angela Corey.   Various options are being discussed.   It will be interesting to see how they align moving forward.

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353 Responses to Political Back Channel Communication – “when the case don’t fit, you must acquit” – Discussions of How To Acquit Surface….

  1. John Galt says:

    I propose immediate acquittal so that Obama’s children can engage in protest looting while the stores are still well stocked prior to Xmas.

  2. Sharon says:

    “….hold a young people’s summit to address how the community should react if Zimmerman is found not guilty.”

    Not too long ago they were saying they were going to riot and burn the country down if charges were dropped.

    John Edwards was right, two different Americas. The one I live in doesn’t have meetings to figure out how to react to public events.

    • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

      All those federal agents and not one arrest of the black pansies and their threats of violence and vigilantism?

    • michellc says:

      2 different Americas is something I can agree with Edwards about. Over the last year I’ve learned just how different the 2 Americas are. I’m scared though the America I live in is dying and I don’t want to live in the other America where the color of your skin and your destructive ways is rewarded and if you happen to be illegal you have the same if not more rights than a citizen.

      • stringplayer55 says:

        This nation is going to pot (figuratively and literally for those of us blessed to live in Washington state). It is not just that our elected officials (and especially the POTUS) have done everything possible to destroy the economic output of our country, but the loss of civility, of community, of caring for the interests of others that just eats me up. Instead, what we see is what Romney referred to with his 47% remarks. Whether right about it being 47%, so much of the country is interested only in what they can GET from the public trough and has no regard for what they should GIVE. It is sickening to see the decay that only accelerates day by day.

    • RockyMtnMama says:

      Maybe the community should talk to their “young people” about staying away from drugs and about not confronting and assaulting random strangers.

      • Sharon says:

        Some in that community are not opposed to what their young people are doing, which is why the behaviors have gotten so entrenched. There are two or three generations whose responses/support range from active participation to complicit silence.

        Based on what I read at another site yesterday, I believe my observation of those facts makes me a racist.

    • Geosurface says:

      Massive riots over an innocent man being rightfully set free might be just the thing for a MUCH needed realignment of perceptions and priorities in this country. So I say, let them riot.

      • stringplayer55 says:

        Oh, haven’t you heard. There is all of this pent up hostility for years of slavery and whitey is supposed to assume guilt even now for transgressions centuries old. It is OUR OWN FAULT, don’t you know? At least, that is how it will be sold.

        (Shh, don’t remind ANYONE that it was black slavers in Africa who sold other blacks into slavery. That would fly in the face of the need for whitey to assume guilt for the whole institution of slavery.)

        • Geosurface says:

          Or the fact that pretty much every racial group over the course of human history has been enslaved at various times, to their own or others… including whites. An entire village in my ancestors’ homeland (Ireland) was abducted by Moroccan pirates and put into slavery in Morocco in the 1600′s.

    • jordan2222 says:

      Why do they have to be warned to not break the law? Who does that? When is the last time someone warned you publicly to keep your cool?

      I read that article as a disguise for them to have riots.

  3. BigMamaTEA says:

    Well, there’s another Fed. Agency that needs a serious budget cut! Community Relations Dept? Really? snark

  4. rumpole2 says:

    Spooky…. perhaps I was clair-bleedin-voyant when I suggested an early Christmas for George?

  5. eastern2western says:

    It is complete bs that nbc claims the editing was not intentional. I have done video and audio editing before and all editing is intentional.

    • Kim says:

      I said the same thing in another post. I produce music on the side and cutting/pasting and mixing audio so it doesnt sound edited takes some work and skill. What they did was no mistake.

      • eastern2western says:

        The way how the tapes were cutted is actually very intentional and professional because they were cut in a way that was designed to present a different version of the story.

  6. howie says:

    Will BDLR throw Corey under the Bus in an attempt to save his career? Or will he go down with the ship? Stay tuned for the details. Will anyone in law enforcement come clean? How will Bondi extract herself? Will Judge Lester be exposed? There are many passengers on the Hell Bound Train.

    • justfactsplz says:

      Reminds me of a song about a long dark train by Josh Turner I believe it was.

    • ytz4mee says:

      Or, as one of our prolific Treepers likes to say:
      The runaway Orange Blossom Special is about to be derailed.

    • John Galt says:

      “How will Bondi extract herself?”

      Would not surprise me if Bondi called Corey to ask that exact question after the recent broken nose photo release.

      • ytz4mee says:

        Hardly. Blondie knew all the exculpatory evidence was there before she waded in, hip deep to help railroad George. Blondie can rot in hell.

        • myopiafree says:

          Both Corey and Bernie could see the BASHED NOSE, created by violent racist Trayvon – and KNEW that TM attacked George (Felony assault and battery). The “beat, bloody skull of George, and his statement – PROVEN this was a violent attack. This was clearly (to all with LE common sense) an attack, and self-defense. There was NO REASON to subvert the purpose of the Grand Jury. Corey and Bernie – have a lot to EXPLAIN!!

    • jordan2222 says:

      I have no doubt that they have all insulated themselves against any kind of legal action. How many times in our history has anyone been severely punished for malicious misconduct or prosecutorial misconduct? Even Nifong only spent one day in jail.

      As tragic as this is, history tells us not to get our hopes up that anything negative will happen to BLDR, Bondi, Corey and Scott even if they should all be disbarred and spend some time behind bars.

      That does not mean that Don West will not try but O’Mara would probably stay out of anything that West does in this regard. West has nothing to lose.

  7. justfactsplz says:

    Sundance, it just gets better and better with each new article. Great news on the horizon. Merry Christmas George and Shellie!

    • howie says:

      What kind of Star Chamber is this? This is worse than the original sin. Talk about abuse of power.

      • justfactsplz says:

        Just when you begin to think the corruption can’t get any worse, it does.

        • howie says:

          Our country reminds me of Rome, in the good old days. But we are compressing the decline and fall.

          • cajunkelly says:

            “Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and given him triumphal processions. Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the forum of the new wonderful good society which shall now be Rome’s, interpreted to mean more money, more ease, more security, and more living fatly at the expense of the industrious.”

        • Causes me to ponder just how far the prosecution will go to win when the accused doesn’t have good legal representation or a sneak of Wolverines turning the evidence inside out to flush the deception. Somebody mentioned DeeDee’s split personalities but I’d counter that DeeDee are split persons acting a part from the Scheme Team’s play book. Once George is granted immunity & guaranteed no further persecution will be perpetrated against him, it’s time to make the corrupt prosecution pay with prison time, the media pay with record lawsuits. Scheme Team pays both ways, Sharpton, Parks/Crump, N,Jackson & Julison perpetrated a massive campaign of hate against George Zimmerman. They should be residing at Club-Fed for a decade, their assets seized & 10 million dollar lawsuits awarded against each one of them!!! I haven’t forgotten about Richard Kurtz or Norton Bonaparte as they’re complicit to one of the conspiracies to deprive George of his constitutional rights, his freedom & possibly his life. We need to make them all pay for their crimes against George & the American public. Never again can we allow them to divide us by class or race to further their political agenda.

          • jordan2222 says:

            You are absolutely correct in that all of these people should be punished. Sadly, I doubt that anyone will spend one night behind bars. I am not counting on it.

            The corrupt system perpetuates itself by not ever punishing those that are the true bad guys.

            • Then maybe it’s going to take massive destructive rioting before scheming perps are held accountable for their despicable greedy actions. I want to know whose going to be held responsible for the many racial attacks perpetrated in Trayvon’s name. I nominate the Scheme Team because they injected hateful racism into the investigation. Public servants such as the 10 gallon fruit loop, helped drive a wedge between the Races & nearly sparked nationwide race rioting for political gain. They’ll keep on doing it until the consequences become too great. Now is the time to lay the foundation that leads to reform because if not soon the next one may lead us down the path which needlessly claims the lives of Americans.

              • jordan2222 says:

                The vote is now impotent. We are greatly outnumbered.

                Nothing is going to change until the government is fearful of the people it is supposed to represent. Race wars are on the horizon.That would be a great time for a revolution. King George must go.

  8. howie says:

    Does this mean that the state will drop it before they are destroyed by Omara and West? Maybe the trail of Depo and Subpoena is getting to close to certain behind the scenes players? Maybe West was not joking when he said he could not Depo BDLR….Yet.

    • sundance says:

      The “system” per se’ is only evaluating two things:

      1.) what is their responsibility to The State and it’s advocates (Scott, Bondi, Corey and to a lesser extent BDLR)

      and

      2.) Is there a risk to the community, and to what extent can that risk be mitigated.?

      The latter part is how can they position themselves to appear magnanimous during the mitigation events?

      The “outliars” (pun intended) are on their own. There is some broad yet arm length concern for Sybrina and Tracy (The Martin Family) who will eventually end up with a bench at a bus stop named after them – with fanfare. But, there is no concern or thought what-so-ever for Natalie Jackson, Ben Crump, Daryl Parks, Jasmine Rand, Ryan Julison or an affiliated advocate. They are on their own.

      The odd thing (odd as in kinda sad yet deserved) will be to watch the Scheme Team look for support where no support exists. But that is always the way with this stuff…. So long as the media attention keeps the light on the Scheme, they will be alone. [See Jenna 6, Duke Lacross, or Tawana Brawley]

      However, after a few months the professionally black aggrieved circuit will be welcoming once again for their affiliation. (See DC and Marion Barry for time schedule) ….. AND…. the cycle will repeat. New opportunity, new victim, new outrage…. it’s a perpetual thing.

      • ytz4mee says:

        Which is why it needs to be so painful and expensive that the cycle CAN’T repeat.
        One of the successful tools used to disarm and disband the most hate-filled and radical white Nationalist groups was to litigate and bankrupt. Seems they are no longer a threat or an issue anymore. It takes deep pockets and a strong will to do that, however. The BGI has had a much longer – and coddled – run.

      • myopiafree says:

        As long as so-called witnessed, (the prostitute, DeeDee) can make up false stories, and there is NO PENALTY AT ALL, then this sort of Corey-Fong will CONTINUE. When the prosecutors NEVER CHECK (with lie detectors) and swallow hole the “story-line” created by Crump-DeeDee (and people in that house) – then this type of expensive judicial farce WILL CONTINUE. The WORST part was the way the MEDIA swallowed complete (with no checking at all) the picture created by Julison.

        • recoverydotgod says:

          That is why the media…the once free press…needs to be hammered in this suit process for being little more than a propaganda. The free press is critical to guard our freedoms against the all powerful state.

          Mark O’Mara’s argument in court related to the state wanting a gag order makes even more sense to me now.

          • hooson1st says:

            well said

          • stringplayer55 says:

            I have long advocated for the fourth estate as a vital check on the powers that be. But these days, the fourth estate is abusing their power so as to create the news of the day rather than to record and report the day’s events. As long as Americans have the attention span of a peanut, the public plays right into the hands of the media so as to allow them to present completely false narratives as news and never be held accountable.

            Now, remember that the major media are owned by entertainment groups. Those entertainment groups are willing to prop up the media both now and in the future so there is little likelihood of any real check on the medias abuses likely to come from any of the civil suits that will accompany this case.

    • Carl says:

      West wasn’t joiking when he said “yet.” Judge Lester, in response to the media motions, held that state law required disclosure of witnesses who had discussed the case in the media. The question to ask is “why wasn’t DeeDee included?” Because the court thought she was a minor, and BDLR knew from at least April 2nd (and her age was redacted from the transcript provided to the defense why?) that she wasn’t. He even prodded the issue with his “are you sure” comments at the last hearing.
      Even if the media doesn’t raise this breach on Tuesday, it will be central to a suit against Florida, and BDLR will most certainly be deposed regarding what he knew when.

  9. Sharon says:

    Here’s the first paragraph telling about the wonder-working powers of the peacemakers:

    The Community Relations Service is the Department’s “peacemaker” for community conflicts and tensions arising from differences of race, color, and national origin. Created by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, CRS is the only Federal agency dedicated to assist State and local units of government, private and public organizations, and community groups with preventing and resolving racial and ethnic tensions, incidents, and civil disorders, and in restoring racial stability and harmony

    Why does that leave me feeling icky? And I see it’s just for issues arising from race, color and national origin…..so if somebody comes after me with a shovel because I’m not Sharia-compliant, these guys aren’t gonna help? Is that the way to read that?

    restoring racial stability and harmony HA! IOW—-yer gonna do what yer told if ya know what’s good for ya.

  10. eastern2western says:

    The beasley law firm looks like a freaking beast that can actually take on nbc and win the case for zimmerman.

    • Kim says:

      O’Mara did his research :)

    • ytz4mee says:

      The Beasley Firm is also well financed and can take on a case like this and has the resources to do the meticulous and time-consuming expensive research without needing to cave or settle quickly. Unlike other people, who have bankrupted themselves once already with their inability to manage a firm, and/or are facing home foreclosure and a multiplicity of liens. Not naming any one in particular, of course. Just sayin’.

      • cajunkelly says:

        Wow, just wow. Thanks for posting this…you brought back memories from many years ago. A co-worker owned a T6 and took me up for some aerobatics. QQ!!
        Barrel rolls are gut wrenching enough, but the hammer head is a double whammy….up….up…just to the point of stall…then over and DOWN DOWN DOWN…straight toward the ground.
        You betcha…you’d BETTER have trust in your pilot (or lead in this case).
        Lord I was young and dumb back then! LOL But what a ride!

        This video gives high praise to this man.

        I believe George can “trust his pilot” in this case. :)

        • myopiafree says:

          Hi Cajunkelly – I love this type of flying – I did all that could be done with a Cessna 152 Aerobat – a fully stressed 6 G plane. George has the RIGHT people fighting for him!!

    • lovemygirl says:

      The guy running the Beasley firm was my video post of him leading a team of P51 Mustangs.

      • anwtex says:

        Cool video! Thanks lovemygirl! I’m crazy about aviation!!
        btw–I believe he is a physician as well. Very ‘well rounded’ I’d say.

        • anwtex says:

          Sheesh! J. Beasley is so dang accomplished.
          I can’t say enough about people that do something with the life they were given……it is
          a blessing to be so interested and ambitious (imo).

          Extremely impressive!! Well worth the time to read I’m posting just a bit here–

          Jim has both his medical degree and his law degree from the University of Pennsylvania, and a Masters in Trial Advocacy from Temple University’s Beasley School of Law. He is a fellow of the American College of Legal Medicine.

          He has been a guest on television shows like Today and Good Morning, America and has been interviewed countless times for magazines, newspapers, and radio shows.

          For seven years in a row, Jim has been named by his colleagues as one of Pennsylvania’s “Super Lawyers.” From 2006 through 2010, Jim was voted by his colleagues as a “top 100” lawyer in Pennsylvania. Jim is also included in the “Best Lawyers in America.”

          Jim Jr. was the architect of The Beasley Firm’s winning strategy in Vlazny v. Cavarocchi, a 2000 case involving a severely brain damaged baby. The result: the highest medical malpractice jury verdict in the history of the state, $100 million.

          Under Jim’s direction, The Beasley Firm continues to be the go-to destination for all aggrieved people, including lawyers, judges and even physicians pursuing libel, business tort or malpractice claims.

          He’s one of a dozen civilian pilots licensed to fly alongside U.S. Air Force pilots at air shows around the world…

          http://www.avvo.com/attorneys/19107-pa-james-beasley-419601/aboutme.html

          • anwtex says:

            In the event some don’t care to click on links I’m adding just a little bit more of the text from the avvo (Beasley) link. There is just so much impressive information regarding this atty and it all leaves me with such a feeling of confidence I needed to share.

            Night all…………. OH! Wait I think I need to get up soon if I want to catch “InSession”. Nah I’d rather sleep maybe I’ll catch later in the day somewhere. Goodnight again.

            “Jim, also a M.D., has worked on or tried some of the Firm’s largest cases. These include the only verdict obtained on behalf of victims of the September 11 world Trade Center attacks — a $104 million verdict — as well as the largest medical negligence verdicts in the history of the state.”

            “Jim also contributes much of his time to volunteer legal projects, and in 2009 was an award winner for the Philadelphia Volunteer for the Indigent Program.”

            • anwtex says:

              omgosh! I’ve been on the wrong thread. This is not the place for NBC suit related “talk” is it?

              Dang! My bad. My scroll bar keeps jumping around and it makes me dizzy………that is the best excuse I can come up with. Wonder why it has been doing that for the last 2 days. Doesn’t happen anywhere else. hmmm oh, well.

              • Sharon says:

                I’ve noticed some scroll bar issues, too….sometimes we have odd things happen that go away after a bit. I hope that’s the case with this one.

                • anwtex says:

                  Sharon you have ‘made my day’ —-Thank you SO much for giving me hope regarding my scroll bar issues. sheesh! The bottom of my screen keeps jumping also. I don’t know what it’s called, it’s the horizontal scroll bar. Anyway….thanks a bunch!

                  I tried this little ‘fix-it’ trick
                  Photobucket
                  but didn’t work :roll:

                  • dmoseylou says:

                    My scroll bar has been jumping for hours only on this site. WHEW! Good to know it is not just my computer;

                  • justfactsplz says:

                    Mine has been jumping around on the bottom too.

                  • anwtex says:

                    Well at least it’s not our computers and we know we aren’t drinking (?) so all is good. I’m sure it will straighten itself out before we know it. I will concentrate on 2:00 pm east coast Saturday noooo make that @ 5:30 pm. ummm I’m thinking noon Sunday.

                  • anwtex says:

                    Oh, dear! How did that happen?? The other day I posted only the link for the pic of me fixing my computer and now this crazy thing is here. Sheesh! Don’t know what I did. Snow is gone but now this thing is flipping all over the place :shock:
                    Sorry. If anyone ends up crossed eyed sent me the bill.

                • Chip Bennett says:

                  I’ve noticed some scroll bar issues, too…

                  Hi, Sharon.

                  The scroll bar issues are/were caused by the javascript for the “snow” effect, just FYI. Looks like it’s turned off again, now? (p.s. if you ever have any website/WordPress-related questions or issues, feel free to send them my way.)

                  • Sharon says:

                    Thank you, Chip. Much appreciated! :)

                  • jello333 says:

                    I’ve hesitated saying anything about it, cause I didn’t wanna get anyone mad at me, but…. I’m GLAD they turned the snow off. Yeah, I think it looks very cool, but it totally freaks out my (old, as I’ve said before) computer.

                • waltherppk says:

                  The java snow was causing me issues too, crashes of my system power monitoring applet for my backup power supply, and was causing browser hangs and delays too.
                  That snow script is buggy.

                • anwtex says:

                  Hooray!!! Scroll bar not acting up any longer. How about you?? Maybe it was the background (now changed) the other had what I think were verrrry tiny snowflakes drifting all around and that just may be what caused the scroll bar to get jiggy. That’s what I attributed it to a few days ago and was just going to wait it out, but I was thinking…..oh, boy, what if that background stays up thru December :wink:

                  Hope yours is A-OK also.

            • Funny how many of the morons over there at dumpster diver’s site are trying to ridicule and insult the character and intelligence of Beasley. Utterly ridiculous.

              • anwtex says:

                Sad commentary, huh. And the worse part is is that they probably VOTE! No wonder the wheels are falling off this place.

        • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

          dont forget trayvon’s love of getting high was what made him the avaiation star to be (we all know he wasnt gonna go anywhere from his education he got from school since he rarely went there and while many were egaer to lie for his academic talents, he actually failed the state exam and was not slated to graduate normally-he failed the FACT-hardly an academic scholar

          • Yeah but he was guaranteed to be awarded a major “cheerfulness” scholarship as well as for herbal biology, shady business & online plant marketing LOL. More likely the aspiring astronaut’s glass ceiling would’ve been along the lines of Harry Chapin’s tune Taxi

  11. eastern2western says:

    after nbc, it is open season for every one from angela corey to daryl parks because their skittles and ice tea campaign has created a lot of enemies.

    • Sharon says:

      And those who are most guilty, and beginning to wake up to a bit of reality on that score, will be desperately looking for some way to get an early and low settlement figure in writing…..contrary to being on the pushing end for George to cave to charges, now they’re in a very, very weak position, hoping to get O’mara to cave to a low and early settlement.

  12. 22tula says:

    Sundance, I don’t know if you heard the Guy Green,(SpeakEasy) interview with Andrew McCarthy that I posted. Andrew McCarthy stated that the MSM picks and chooses which News event they will cover and which they will not. Andrew McCarthy was referring to Benghazi. The critical events, the most important news, that does not fit the MSM’s “Agenda,” is not covered and so it withers and dies on the vine. And then You came along. I commend You for your efforts in your search for the Facts and the Truth. You tended the vine and kept it alive, by keeping Benghazi and the Zimmerman Case on the front burners. Thank You.

  13. eastern2western says:

    A lot of the trayvonites are probably laughing at the zimmerman suit and believe it is an act of desperation, but none of them is paying attetion to the importance of the the beasley law firm because this firm is a freaking beast. In the suit, it specifically demands a jury decision which mean the beasley group has enough money to drag this case for years and years. At this point, the media is not reporting the beasley law firm. However, they will eventually learn how freaking big this case is when they wake up tomorrow and study the whole suit because it is a fight between two giants. The beasley firm probably took the case without an up front fees and is probably financing the legal costs of zimmerm’s criminal defense cost. God, this little case has turned into the battle of the giants.

    • sundance says:

      I have a sense (just a sense with nothing of substance to back it up) the addition and notification of Beasley has something to do with an apparent new position of the State. And yes, I would not be surprised one bit to discover that GZ’s current expenses, including legal expense, might be part and portion of the agreement between the parties. After all this is a business of legal representation, but a business nontheless.

      • eastern2western says:

        After NBC, the Beasley firm will probably all other big mouths that have basically lynched zimmerman since the story was exposed to the world.

      • howie says:

        Scott is up for election.

      • disgustedwithjulison says:

        Yes Sundance…so they have this case go away, pay the attorneys….what about Shellie? Isn’t the case of trumped up charges against her still active? How do they release her too and pay her fees without totally being exposed for the corrupt prosecutors that they are? They kept digging their hole so deep on this one that to extract themselves gracefully – and without scrutiny by media – will be virtually impossible. They can say that new information has come up on the case to dismiss, but they still have Shellie hanging out there whom they slimed in order to put pressure on George.

      • Sundance,

        This is kind of off topic, but also not, at the same time. In the next few months, I’m going to be working on putting a ballot initiative together that requires all media outlets in my state to report their retractions/corrections on the front page, as a lead story, in their papers (this will be worked out differently for broadcast news). I’m going to have to do some research to figure out if there is a way to do this that doesn’t conflict with the 1st Amendment and also if there is a way to attach punitive measures in the case of non-compliance. The purpose would be to make it financially destructive for a news organization to report something that presents a false narrative. What are your thoughts?

    • Sharon says:

      So Beaseley can be sending money over to O’Mara as front end financing for another firm? Obviously that’s what you’re saying, I’m just trying to grasp that this “is done”….

      • sundance says:

        Yes. Think about it this way. Beasely has agreed to represent GZ in a rather large case against a big litigant. They are fronting the investment in the outcome. That said, he/they now have a vested interest in the current legal case because it can have an affect on their civil tort.

        If Beasely is going to represent GZ, they have a vested interest in all things GZ and they will take over coaching and approving all moves therein…. Actually Beasely will be the ones to tell/approve/be involved in, all criminal decisions so as to position themselves in the very best strategic position moving forward.

        In return for such control they will reimburse the criminal attorney for his/her expenses, much like they would a sub-contracted fee based specialist co-counsel. At least that’s the way I understand it.

        • eastern2western says:

          Being a big law firm, the beasley has connections all through different sectors of the community which will definitely help the criminal case with the hiring of all of the necessary experts . With the beasley firm backing him, o’mara is actually beginning to speak with more affirmation.

          • disgustedwithjulison says:

            A good move by Omara. We have covered it here before, but attorneys do not like to raise trouble with their local bar or their local bench. So far to date, Omara has played that game…..still being friendly to all of his cocktail drinking buddies, not rocking the boat. Bringing in outstate counsel allows Omara to still be friends with his cocktail buddies while he can have the outstate guy become the big bully.

        • Sharon says:

          Thanks…sorry I didn’t respond earlier….lost internet service the minute I posted the question and just got it back…..

          If Beasely is, in some ultimate sense, now represented GZ, that supposed I’m sure that they have evaluated GZ’s management of himself with the duress and difficulties that have gone on month after month. It doesn’t change what he has to endure (and certainly not what he has already endued) but it reflects well on both George and Shellie that Beasely is confident that it is good use of their reputation and their time.

        • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

          In other words, George is gonna have the best darned self defense expert that money can buy (which is good since they have had so many professional liars telling lies about this case)

          • Jon H. Gutmacher & Massad Ayoob would be at the top of my law & self defense expert witness list during the April hearing for immunity protection. Though I doubt the persecution of George is going to trial, if it does I’d want Cheney Mason to pick the jury were I in George’s shoes.

          • I’m guessing, if this ever gets far enough, we’ll be seeing Massad Ayoob, then.

        • jello333 says:

          And so if they’re looking not at just the outcome of George’s criminal case, but how that impacts the civil suits to follow, is it safe to assume that they care greatly about HOW George’s case ends? I don’t mean just that it ends in his exoneration… that’s a given. I mean that the ending won’t allow the prosecution or anyone else to say “he got off on a technicality”. Rather, that it’s clear to the world that it ended 1) because George was totally innocent, and 2) because the whole prosecution was a fraud from the start, and 3) some people need to be punished for that fraud.

          Do you think that’s the direction they’re trying to make this thing go?

        • howie says:

          The formal defense discovery and investigation can be considered part of the “damages” I think. This is great. Crump and Parks v. Beasley.

  14. ytz4mee says:

    Fallout … I have no sympathy, zero, zilch for either Trashcan Momma or Trashcan Sperm Donor.
    Both of them were willing participants in the Scheme, because they were convinced there was a giant pot of ill-gotten gold at the end of the rainbow. Never forget Trashcan Momma’s inadvertent slip in Deptford, UK, where she is so glad Traydemark’s death could be remade into something “profitable”. Somewhere along the line, between the media interviews, the international travel, the makeovers and “awards”, they decided that the Scheme was more important than the truth and truly honoring their son by honestly examining their own culpability in his death.

    Trashcan Momma, in particular, thought she was this generation’s civil rights icon, and that the “Foundation” was her ticket to easy street to jet around on someone else’s dime pontificating about “racial profiling” and “youth violence”. Except that the promised tsunami of dollars never arrived. There was no payday.

    Other parents who have lost their children to gun violence have reached out and worked with the other side to promote understanding and healing. They didn’t rush out and trademark their loved ones names.

    They have earned the scorn of the Nation.

  15. Justice4All says:

    Glad my tax dollars are being used to bail out Sharpton and his race baiting mob of racists. Waste my money for 9 months but you know Holder has got to look out for “his people”.

  16. Sharon says:

    Is something going to be changing direction at the hearing? Is that what it’s looking like?

    Would the state be initiating that? If the state initiates, can the defense require certain stipulations, in order to not hinder/limit later civil actions?

    How long would it take to prepare civil actions, or are they sitting there ready to go?

    • Chip Bennett says:

      If the state initiates, can the defense require certain stipulations, in order to not hinder/limit later civil actions?

      I don’t see O’Mara letting the State off the hook without, at a minimum, an immunity ruling. Zimmerman needs that ruling, in order to be completely free of the prospect of future civil legal action being taken against him.

      To the lawyers among us: is there any procedure by which the prosecution can ask the judge to rule that the defendant is immune, on self-defense grounds, without the parties actually carrying out the full immunity hearing?

      • John Galt says:

        The immunity /SYG hearing is a judge created procedure. The actual statute does not require a hearing. It appears to me that immunity could be conferred if the judge granted a stipulated motion. The motion might need to include a stipulated description of the evidence and supporting exhibits sufficient to justify the judge in making the 776.032 determination.

        Required showing: “A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031″

        776.032 Immunity from criminal prosecution and civil action for justifiable use of force.—
        (1) A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s. 776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force, unless the person against whom force was used is a law enforcement officer, as defined in s. 943.10(14), who was acting in the performance of his or her official duties and the officer identified himself or herself in accordance with any applicable law or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person was a law enforcement officer. As used in this subsection, the term “criminal prosecution” includes arresting, detaining in custody, and charging or prosecuting the defendant.
        (2) A law enforcement agency may use standard procedures for investigating the use of force as described in subsection (1), but the agency may not arrest the person for using force unless it determines that there is probable cause that the force that was used was unlawful.
        (3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).

        • Chip Bennett says:

          The immunity /SYG hearing is a judge created procedure. The actual statute does not require a hearing. It appears to me that immunity could be conferred if the judge granted a stipulated motion. The motion might need to include a stipulated description of the evidence and supporting exhibits sufficient to justify the judge in making the 776.032 determination.

          So, to a layperson, what does that mean, procedurally?

          Does it mean that the prosecution and defense could file a joint motion, detailing the evidence of 776.032 justification, and the judge summarily grant the motion?

          Or, could the defense unilaterally file such a motion at any time, and ask for judgement?

          • John Galt says:

            Not sure, but I think the defense could file a detailed motion with supporting exhibits, to which the state could stipulate. Maybe the state can agree to do that in exchange for an agreement not to be sued.

            • ytz4mee says:

              The State deserves to be sued. Bondi had no problem facilitating a multi-million dollar payout for the Anderson family and Crumpster, when the evidence did not support any wrong doing on the part of the State.

              The State would need to pre-emptively give the entire Zimmerman extended family giant wheel barrows of cash before they could expect to be isolated from civil litigation.

              Maybe they can just “redistribute” the big hunk o cash Crumpster shook down for the Anderson family to the Zimmermans. Complete the karma wheel, so to speak.

      • Sharon says:

        I asked the question clumsily–but was also thinking about the state and all the prosecution-connected entities being given immunity from later legal actions…iow,are they allowed to say, “We’ll dismiss the charges if we can be sure we’re safe from any possibility of the defense coming after us for damages…..”

  17. ytz4mee says:

    Does this mean, as part of the back channel “negotiations” between all parties, that the DOJ will now be compelled to charge Frances Robles with the felony of outing a Federal Agent, and putting his life and his family’s lives at risk? That definitely needs to be a non-negotiable item. How can the Herald publishing empire defend against civil liability if their staff is (rightfully) criminally charged? I hope that the GZ legal team doesn’t let this one slip by …..

    And … in light of the cascading exculpatory evidence, and clear coordination and collusion between numerous parties within the Scheme Team (which now includes the media), how can the DOJ continue to refuse to charge her, without continuing to appear to be biased, prejudiced and without any credibility or as less-than-neutral whatsoever when it comes to matters of race and media manipulation??

    Maybe someone needs to start a White House petition to compel the DOJ to formally indict Robles.

    • Sharon says:

      Where is the trail that defines the back channel negotiations, the evidence of them? I suppose I’m looking right at it and don’t see it….or are the “back channel negotations” an assumption that’s in play due to the series of events with the NBC filing and the hearing coming up and the photo of George being released?

      • ytz4mee says:

        Triangulation …….

        The State would like this to go away before any more extremely damaging information becomes public knowledge, adding to their liability and potential damages. The Zimmerman team, on the other hand, is best served if ALL the extremely damaging information that was highly prejudicial to their client sees sunlight, and public review, adding to their potential for recovery of damages ….

        The dance of competing desires…

  18. eastern2western says:

    If the Beaseley stepped in, angela corey needs to call it quits because her old strategy of scaring the small guy into a submission. Corey under estimated zimmerman big time because her original strategy was hoping to drag this case till zimmerman lost all of his money, but the beaseley firm changed the equation of economics. Now, zimmerman basically has a super lawyer next to him for no money at all. It would be freaken bad ass if alan dershowitz joins the fun and kicks angela corey’s ass in a court room. That wicked witch and her flying monkeys need a good ass kicking from some super lawyers.

    • Kim says:

      I think her strategy was to have George take a plea deal. They have been up poop creek because he has refused and is a fighter.

      • howie says:

        Illegal Parking? Walking on the Grass? Disturbing the peace?

      • ctdar says:

        Take a plea or conveniently murdered by TM supporter. Georges safest place early on was in prison because the world eyes were watching and if anything happened there FL would be on receiving end forever.

      • Sharon says:

        …yes….and “all he did” was stand there being truthful. And has paid a terrible price for just standing….we all owe George a great debt of gratitude, because this case and the rot it is exposing (right to the oval office) has become a wedge to pry the cover off a barrel of stink that’s been destroying our nation from top to bottom. We’re not surprised at what’s in the barrel and have understood that for some time–but we just couldn’t get the top pried off and drag the thing into the sunlight.

        Tugboat indeed, moving a mighty ocean-going ship.

    • LetJusticePrevail says:

      I think Alan would be happy to throw a spanner in the works of The Corey’s little machine. I wonder if she now regrets that she threatened to sue him? LOL I LOVED his response to THAT little threat!

    • Sharon says:

      It really seems as though these legal thugs have been accustomed to being the big ducks in the small pond; and now it appears they are going to be the small ducks in a very, very big pond.

      • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

        Bernie looks like such a small duck (did I spell that right?)…..he mostly just has baby ducks he has to deal with so he pushes them around with little or no thought about actually following the law himself (he is NOT used to having to follow the law, I can tell).
        Bernie is used to never being challenged in a courtroom (he never has had to face a competent defense attorney in his career-that is so obvious-few prosecutors ever have to face a competent defense attorney putting on a good defense)

      • justfactsplz says:

        Can’t you just see them trying to get the all in a row?

    • canadacan says:

      I hope corey has a lousy Christmas or whatever it sashe celebrates

  19. Kim says:

    Beasleys comment on the lawsuit.

    The suit doesn’t specify a dollar amount of damages that Zimmerman is seeking. “That’s showmanship,” says James Beasley, the Philadelphia-based lawyer representing Zimmerman in the suit.
    Beasley declined to comment on whether he’d already had any discussions with NBC. “I don’t want to talk about that. I can’t talk about that. But let’s just say I don’t think it’s going to get settled.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2012/12/06/george-zimmerman-sues-nbc-over-trayvon-martin-reports/

    —-/-
    Wow, maybe it will go to trial.

    • sundance says:

      This really is only the beginning. The followup article has more comments from Beasley…

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2012/12/06/can-george-zimmerman-prevail-against-nbc/

      The long and the short of it appears exactly as we had previously discussed. NBC is only the beginning. Once tort is established the claims against those of like-minded activity (looking at you CNN) will advance. Beasley wouldn’t take the case if they could not win it outright and NBC will burn up all the defensive strategies.

      Once other media outlets see the defense mounted by NBC fail, they will essentially be left defenseless, the case would already have been presented and won – just change the names and the examples and repeat the filing(s). ABC, CBS and CNN did essentially the exact same thing as NBC.

      ABC with their exclusives of “deedee” and the non-injured GZ stolen video. Which they apologized for airing (sound familiar)
      CBS for their computer graphic animation showing GZ shooting Trayvon and surrounding narrative.
      CNN for their audio enhanced false reporting/creation of “fucking coons”, which they retracted two weeks later.

      In each of these examples the media “created” a story, they were not reporting on the story, they in essence made stuff up. GZ was actually seriously injured, GZ did not shoot Trayvon in the back or front without struggle, and GZ did not use a racial slur.

      See the trend…. And yes, they all created harm. Real, substancial, civil punitive harm to George Zimmerman and his family.

      • howie says:

        NYT, LA Times, Capeheart et al. All those wonderful writers.

      • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

        And a 40 second altercation/fight/MMA attack CAN alter the position of your shirt (only morons think your shirt stays still during a 40 plus second MMA match

      • John Galt says:

        “This really is only the beginning.”

        This has to scare the h3ll out of Scott, Bondi, Corey, BDLR and Scheme Team. The Beasely Firm can consult with MOM / West regarding discovery to be obtained in the criminal case with a view toward future civil litigation.

    • John Galt says:

      “I don’t want to talk about that. I can’t talk about that. But let’s just say I don’t think it’s going to get settled.”

      Sounds like they had confidential settlement negotiations and Beasley is swinging for the fence.

      • boutis says:

        Beasley has more than one 100 million plus judgement. They are not playing around. I am watching the MOM and West interview on TruTV. Their demeanor is totally different. They have seemed defensive and angry at times. They seem slightly amused and very confident in this interview. Beasley means the gloves are off and they are no longer pulling punches. Beasley has already investigated all of it and has the goods before the first civil damages suit has been filed. The numbers are going to be very large from multiple sources. MOM, West, Beasley, Zimmerman are all in.

        • ackbarsays says:

          So glad that MOM finally figured out that his client was not just some poor schlep who, like so many other criminal defendants, “deserved a fair trial with representation,” but was instead, actually an INNOCENT MAN who was being treated unfairly and deserves retribution against the bastards who did this to him.

        • howie says:

          Looks like many of us may have been wrong about Mr. Omara. Including myself to some degree for the initial bond hearing and Shellie’s liability. But the proof is in the Pudding.

  20. ZurichMike says:

    You know, this is starting to get interesting. Snort. Giggle.

  21. eastern2western says:

    this video demonstrates that angela corey’s normal legal strategy is basically scarring the shit out of the little people with overcharging and then force them into signing a plea deal. She though the exact same tactic would work on zimmerman because he was the most wanted man in american. Then zimmerman’s case turned into a headache because he hired the best criminal defense lawyer in the area and got 300k from internet donations. Then she made a decision to arrest shellie zimmerman and george to dry up the legal fund, but beasley came out of no where and turned her strategy up side down and basically gave zimmerman a team of super lawyers. Now he has o’mara, west and beastley. I am sure sure dershowitz is probably calling them every night to give them free advices. Basically, zimmerman just turned into oj simpson with his super team of lawers. It would be super cool if deshowitz decides to sit in court as co-council with his smirk just to annoy angela corey. alan dershowitz, despite his anti-gun stanc and ultra liberal beliefs, he believes corey broke the law and zimmerman defended him self which shows the fact that the man is really honest.

    • eastern2western says:

      • myopiafree says:

        It is always difficult to judge a child when he kills. You must judge if he KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING – AND HAD “INTENT”. But to charge this kid, who JUST turned 12 – is insane. But this is just typical of the mindless arrogance of Corey!! She just wished to improve her “track record” by forcing a “plea deal” on the public defender – who will have no choice but to accept that he can’t do anything else.

        • maggiemoowho says:

          What makes her even more ruthless/heartless is the fact that that 12yr old was physically and sexually abused his entire life. He was concieved in rape and his mom was just 14yrs old. When he was 2 he was found naked wondering the streets and the story goes on. Very tragic and sad.
          That child needs intense psychological therapy, not prison.

    • Sharon says:

      I don’t think of Zimmerman “turning into oj simpson…..” Simpson’s lawyers were specifically out to placate the black community of Los Angeles, and try to scratch their names into the history books at the same time–which they did, unfortunately. Motivation for the attorneys who are providing legal services for George is not–trying to scratch their names into the history books. Particularly with the addition of Beasley’s firm, this is not a group looking to make a name for themselves, and they are not defending a celebrity client.

    • Liberals USED to be the optimistic ones says:

      This largely how our system operates (the prosecutor’s normal legal strategy is basically scarring the shit out of the little people with overcharging and then force them into signing a plea deal).
      .
      This is useful…..plea deals largely can NOT be brought to the appellate courst later on.
      .
      And since 90% of all criminal cases are resolved by plea deal, very few of them can be ever appealed.
      .
      This is how bernie has acted for his decades of service (he almost never has to face a competent attorney, it shows in his aggressive demeanor, he is not used to being challeneged….he is used ot beign a bully and gettign his way regardless of the facts of the case).

  22. Angel says:

    A sad day for our justice system and an affront to the U.S. Constitution when an obviously innocent man cannot be exonerated on factual evidence because of fears of people rioting even though the same U.S. Constitution offered a remedy for that too.

    • Sharon says:

      And keep in mind that “affront to the U. S. Constitution” did not happen just now. This case is revealing the results of something that’s been happening for a long time, perpetrated by those who see opportunities for power and cash flow if they can just bend the legal system their direction. Imagine the individuals who have been mistreated without any significant intervention…some of those cases at hands of the same gang, but others scattered across the country.

      • Angel says:

        “And keep in mind that “affront to the U. S. Constitution” did not happen just now. This case is revealing the results of something that’s been happening for a long time,”

        This case has been very revealing to me with regards to that. Now I wonder about so many others cases in the past.

        • gretchenone says:

          Exactly. This sort of thing goes on in cities large and small across the nation.

          It needs to end.

          I think now that we are seeing a larger picture here. What was meant for evil is now being turned to good, thanks be to God.

      • thefirstab says:

        “perpetrated by those who see opportunities for power and cash flow if they can just bend the legal system their direction.”
        Hopefully they are melting in the sunlight, as we speak. Wonder what kind of shoes NatJack wears? Wizard of Oz 2.0 (was that Rumpole with the Scheme Team video, following the yellow brick road?)

    • hooson1st says:

      Angel

      if it went to trial, GZ would be “exonerated on factual evidence”.

      Ironically, the sad state of affairs presently; i.e, pre-trial, is not an affront to the Constitution but is allowed by the Constitution, the same Constitution that guarantees great freedoms to all of us and to the press.

  23. selfdefenseadvocate says:

    Looks like the scheme team’s chickens are finally going to “come home to roost”.

  24. selfdefenseadvocate says:

  25. truth says:

    I haven’t seen this posted here yet, but looks like Seni Tienabeso was Gutman’s associate present at the W8 interview that Crump couldn’t remember:

    • truth says:

      eh, that link didn’t work out right, I’m not hip to the twitter thing yet. I’ll try again:

  26. mung says:

    Well folks I think it’s all over. Freddy says the lawsuit is frivolous and won’t ever make it to court. Also MOM and company are racist because they used the racist term “Yellow Journalism” according to a Leatherface cult member. The photo was photoshopped. Freddy knows for sure that George said Fing Coons because he listened to the tapes himself and he is an expert on racist comments.

    We might as well just pack it up, because they have it all figured out over there.

    Or maybe they are going off the deep end and they are doing everything they can to justify holding on to their hatred and Freddy is trying to milk every penny out of his cult members to get ready for when he gets his subpoena.

    • hoffstyle71 says:

      If Fred ever got sued as part of the vast reckoning, I doubt there are enough dumpsters in Kentucky that will help him recoup his losses.

      • mung says:

        There wouldn’t be, but it would be nice to not ever have anyone else be the subject of his or other people’s abuse. They want a national discussion about this case then that is what they should get. A discussion about how you shouldn’t be allowed to make statements which you can’t back up and if you do you will be liable for your statements.

        We need new civil rights laws that say you can’t defame a person prior to the verdict.

    • youwantthattoo says:

      I was thinking it would be cool if we had a tally of SDs and Leatherman’s prediction results. It seems that SD is right 99% of the time and Leatherman is right about 1% of the time.

    • yankeeintx says:

      I was doing some reading over there, and just can’t believe these people. They have got to be emotionally disturbed. They fawn all over this “Law Professor” as if they have been touched on the head by the Pope. They believe everything he writes w/o any verification, and think he actually knows what he is talking about. All he does is tell them exactly what they want to hear and they think it is fact. They are too blind to see he is using them. He has really been begging for donations lately because he knows this case is about to be over and most of his followers will disappear. I guess I shouldn’t be suprised by the massive group of people willing to be duped by a fraud, the recent election was proof.

      • hoffstyle71 says:

        He’s not a Law Professor, nor was he ever one. The school he taught at was not a real School. It was a scheme to bilk students out of tuition money. The man has had a 30 year career marred with failure and selling his clients out for notoriety. He had no interest in trying cases, never argued ardently for his clients, and once went to a clients family home and threw pictures of dead, hacked up children in their faces to get them all to convince him to plead guilty. He dives in dumpsters to make a living, his wife eats up all their earnings in an effort to appeal her crack conviction, his daughter sells Marijuana in Colorado.

        Then look at his followers. They are the same people who hang at Doth Lol too much and all the Justice for Trayvon facebook and twitter feeds. Xena aka Barbara Wells is a known ‘scrimination nuisance lawsuit filer in Illinois, and Malisha is a “formerly employed by” Parks and Crump. Tell me why Frances Robles hits him up for comments…

        • yankeeintx says:

          I knew about some of his history, but didn’t care to learn more once I knew enough to consider him a fraud. It just stuns me that some uninformed poster presents a theory and suddenly it becomes fact. The only defense for these people that I can think of is that they must have nothing else in their life going on that requires their attention, or that their lives are so horrible that they need the distracton of feeling involved in something? Sad either way.

          • Sharon says:

            Sad, yes. But it’s also dangerous. Those who depend on deception for their power are always able to find an audience willing to be deceived.

            Unfortunately, that’s exactly how obama got elected, both the first time and the second time–his voter base is a bunch of people who “have nothing else in their life going on that requires their attention, or … their lives are so horrible that they need the distracton of feeling involved in something ”

            That’s how Eric Holder has been able to evade accountability for the death of Brian Terry and the Fast and Furious Gunrunning. That’s how it is possible to be three months out from Benghazi and the questions still aren’t answered, there’s no accountability. That’s how it’s possible that we are coming up on the fifth year in a row that our nation is operating without a budget…obama and his minions have had the ability to gain a willingly deceived audience close enough to the levers of power in Congress that no one has forced the issue.

            Your description probably can be applied to half the people in Congress today (including their staffs) and 85% of the people in the bureaucracies and regulatory agencies. Not good.

            • jordan2222 says:

              Nothing will ever change until the government fears the people it serves.

              • waltherppk says:

                +1,000,000 The soonest and most direct route to make that fear of accountability happen is to regularly, routinely impanel Grand Juries in every county across the USA, twice a year would be good, and let them do what they are good at doing ….investigating government corruption and prosecuting all those crooks who are involved by issuing indictments. Nothing scares the hell out of a crooked politician or bureaucrat like a Grand Jury investigation. Think of the Grand Jury as tar and feathers fundamentalists, a vigilance committee backed up by a few thousand angry villagers carrying pitchforks and torches and shotguns.

                • jordan2222 says:

                  How many folks do you think understand the functions and powers of grand juries?

                  • waltherppk says:

                    Evidently not too many folks understand the Grand Jury is the Fourth branch of government that is the direct agent and instrument of THE PEOPLE…but they sure need to get the message on that one and start using that tool for the purpose it is needed. This country needs to see a return to fundamentals of liberty and honor while there is still a country left that is capable of undergoing that revival. Tyranny is already upon us as a result of the unchecked corruption in government, corrupt courts, and corrupt legislatures who can’t read the constitution or don’t have any clue what it means, or else just don’t care. Grand Juries can make ‘em care. What a truly revolutionary idea that THE PEOPLE could have anything at all to say in the way of clarifying to government to whom is being laid down the law by whom so that there is no further misunderstanding.

        • nameofthepen says:

          hoffstyle71 says: “He’s not a Law Professor…”

          Nice, tight little summation of Leatherman, Hoff! Yeah, his short-lived “law school” was a rented unit in an industrial office park, lol.

  27. boutis says:

    In Session is currently on.

  28. elvischupacabra says:

    The ultimate outcome will be another opportunity for urban ‘yoots’ to loot, burn and terrorize, all under the phony guise of Justice for Trayvon.

  29. Obama’s DOJCRS = Hitler’s Gestapo

  30. Vanya says:

    I really think that Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton need to be brought up on charges for something when this is all said and done. They lied about what their son was and profited greatly. Is it possible for George to sue them, or does anyone think he has more class than that? I think he should sue them.

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Vanya – It is Crump, and his lawyers, who conspired in Sybrina’s house to develop a false story, so Bernie could file “depraved indifference” homicide against George – when there was NO EVIDENCE AT ALL THAT IT WAS TRUE. That is indeed collusion to commit fraud against George. At least Bernie should have “known better” to never get sucked into that scheme. But he didn’t.

    • disgustedwithjulison says:

      While I agree that Tracy and Sybrina were trying to game the system and probably should be gone after in a world of vengeance…..they lost a child…they shouldn’t be targeted. Their handlers: Crump, Julison, etc. pushed them down this road and yes, they got drunk on full garbage cans of money and phoney awards along the way. They are small fish to fry in this whole thing. I just hope that George has the will to make sure that every big fish is fried….not for his personal gain (which, he will do just fine), but to make sure this doesn’t happen again. The race baiting in this country needs to stop – it will only stop if the messengers of this slime are smashed. Have the courage George….make sure all are rightfully exposed to the light so no one in the future has to suffer through what you and your family have.

      • BULL! Tracey & especially Sybrina were absent parents, nothing more than a sperm donor & a vessel to give Trayvon life. They sought great financial gain by way of riding the racial hatred their representatives created upon the coat tails of their son’s tragic death. Trayvon should be alive, they should be in his place for allowing Trayvon to be raised in an environment that instills racial hatred into the mind & soul of their child. Their complicit to the Scheme Team’s conspiracy to deprive George of his rights & his freedom guaranteed him by the U,.S. Constitution. They’re liable for violations of federal criminal & civil law statutes & I’d start with Title 18, U.S.C., Section 241 – Conspiracy Against Rights. America needs Tracey & Sybrina to be exposed for the alleged criminal frauds that they obviously have become. No way their skating by under the radar !

      • Sharon says:

        If they are being targeted (wisely or not) it is not out of hardness of heart at their loss of a son. It’s because of what they did afterward that is deliberately destructively and deceptive.

        Great loss is not an E ticket for public and private fraud–at least it shouldn’t be.

    • nameofthepen says:

      Vanya says: “I really think that Tracy Martin and Sybrina Fulton need to be brought up on charges for something…”

      IMHO, if they do not get charged, I’m not worried. I think karma will handle them.

      I suspect they would surely suffer the “invisible man” fate that OJ now endures. A sort of spontaneous, universal “shunning” by polite society. No one they would like to be around would want anything to do with them.

      And that, also like OJ, when the dust settles, the only media they would be getting would be reports on further unflattering and/or embarrassing things.

      Again, just IMHO. :)

  31. boutis says:

    Crump is going to be on In Session sometime this hour to respond to the MOM and West interview. The camera shot before going to commerical shows a very unhappy Crumper.

    • boutis says:

      West says Crump placed himself in the middle of the case unnecessarily. He is now a witness. MOM says Crump has risked W8 being a witness at all, that by talking to her instead of law enforcement because of interview editing, tampering, etc. “What in God’s name was Crump doing?”

      • boutis says:

        MOM also may have slipped slightly and said they had an eyewitness when talking about W8 being flown around for interviews with BDLR and and no record of this has been handed over discovery.

        Crump is now blithering. He is blaming the SPD. He keeps saying her family did not want her to do it.

      • John Galt says:

        “MOM says Crump has risked W8 being a witness at all, that by talking to her instead of law enforcement because of interview editing, tampering, etc. “What in God’s name was Crump doing?”

        MOM said that? Wow, Now we gettin’ wit it. Can’t wait until they get around to Austin’s testimony change.

        • howie says:

          Be was drumming up some bidness. Kind of like going to the funeral of someone the lawyer does not know who was killed in a car accident and passing out his bidness cards.

      • ytz4mee says:

        From GZ Legal case website:
        http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/october_hearing/mot_to_schedule_standing_hearings.pdf

        On Page 5 of the Motion, signed by West:

        “….The defense intends to take the deposition of several witnesses not included on the state’s discovery exhibits to include attorneys Benjamin Crump, Natalie Jackson, and media consultant, Ryan Julison, who have inserted themselves in this case through their contact directly or indirectly with state witnesses..”

        Make.popcorn.

      • ytz4mee says:

        So nice of the Cowardly Lion to finally find his courage. Who will be the lucky one who gets to throw the bucket of water on the Wicked Witch of Jacksonville?

    • mung says:

      So Crump said he didn’t tell the police about Dee Dee because the didn’t trust them. Isn’t that obstruction of justice?

      • mung says:

        They should do a voice analysis on Crump, because I can tell he is lying.

      • John Galt says:

        I previously found a case, I think in Arizona, where a defense attorney was convicted of obstruction for telling a witness that she didn’t need to talk to the cops.

        • ytz4mee says:

          Gloves are off? MOM finally files a Motion signed with
          “Please Govern yourselves accordingly”.
          Took long enough.
          http://184.172.211.159/~gzdocs/documents/1212/notice_of_hearing_121112.pdf

          • griz1234 says:

            Also interesting is that MOM seems to be going after the evidence collected by the FBI and DOJ!

            • jello333 says:

              One reason I got banned at JQ is because they got sick of hearing me keep saying don’t be surprised if part of the FBI “ongoing” investigation was looking into violations of GEORGE’S civil rights. They screamed at me for “spreading lies and rumors.” ;)

          • Sharon says:

            OK–seriously, YTZ…… is that phrase a legal eagle’s way of deliberately jamming someone in the ribs in court, and saying, “It’s on. Bring it.” ???

          • jello333 says:

            ???!!! “Please Govern yourselves accordingly”

            Who is he saying that to? To Bernie, and maybe to Crump et al if they show up? If so, that is maybe the coolest thing I’ve ever seen a lawyer say to another lawyer. Soooo nice and polite… just a little friendly advice. ;) Cussing Bernie out wouldn’t have been nearly as nasty. I’m serious… that was brilliant stuff right there.

            • ytz4mee says:

              It’s a standard term. It’s basically a polite way of saying, we’ve laid out our position, this is how we intend to proceed if you continue to behave badly or ignore us, so be prepared for that, we’re not backing down. However, it’s the first time I’ve seen MOM use it when communicating with the State during this entire debacle.

              • jello333 says:

                Really? I mean, I’ve seen lawyers say things to each other in court, but it’s more spur-of-the-moment digs. I’ve just never seen it in a formal written motion like that. Yeah, I’ve seen JUDGES write stuff like that, aiming it at “all parties” involved. But one lawyer almost sounding like a parent scolding a little kid?… no, that’s a new one to me. ;)

    • sundance says:

      Damn boutis, I’m loving your coverage of that show…. we need video :D….

      Is In Session a Chanel or a TV show? (((sorry if that’s a stupid question)))

  32. striker says:

    “Peacekeepers”?

    Are they dampening the embers, or…stoking the fire?

    Only Barack and Eric know for sure…

  33. Vanya says:

    And I doubt he lost the feed, lol.

    • boutis says:

      They had to cut him off. He just kept digging. He admitted that he went and got a witness when SPD would not arrest for lack of evidence. It is on tape.

      • John Galt says:

        Would be classic if Beasley is sitting next to MOM / West at Crump’s deposition.

        • boutis says:

          I am pretty sure he will be. It is absolutely amazing how single minded Crump is. He wanted an arrest. He did not care if the investigation was complete, he wanted an arrest THEN. He did not care what the evidence was. He did not care what he had to do or what tracks he left. He needed the arrest to start filing his lawsuits and that was all that mattered to him. Who he harmed, including his clients, did not matter in the least. I have never seen anyone in profession who is so unprofessional.

          Now he says he will file motions to prevent himself from testifying. Now he is repeating the same stuff again about getting the “arrest”.

  34. Vanya says:

    And he said that Tracy kept calling this girl…

  35. mung says:

    FDLE supposedly has the recording now!

    • ytz4mee says:

      According to MOM and West, the copy the FDLE has is a “copy of a copy”. They have known about this “copy” but are seeking the original, unadultered recording. Crump went into immediate evasion mode when asked point blank if he had edited or “manipulated” the DeeDee interview. Got all shifty-eyed and didn’t answer the question. Went into immediate deflection mode.

      Crumpster is in a jam. If he doesn’t cough up the original, GZLegal will move to have the recording and all testimony stricken and declared inadmissible. Bye, bye case.

      If he does cough up the purported original, he is liable for tampering. In any case, it is clear that GZLegal intends to have any and all testimony springing forth from the DeeDee well declared tainted and inadmissible. Then where is the State’s case?

  36. myopiafree says:

    What Corey-Bernie MUST DO – when talking to Jude Nelson (back-channel)
    “Political Back Channel Communication – “when the case don’t fit, you must acquit” – Discussions of How To Acquit Surface…”
    This is how Bernie does it. He states to Judge Nelson that “new evidence” has been discovered, that shows that George is innocent. He AGREES to not “contest” the IMMUNITY hearing, when presented by O’mara – to Judge Nelson. At that point, the Judge, seeing NO EVIDENCE, other than a black-racist, violent attack on George, declares him innocent, and IMMUNE FROM ALL CIVIL SUITS. Then O’mara – West, file to have his “fees paid by the STATE” – since there never were any valid basis for filing charges in the FIRST PLACE. That is how Corey-Bernie can get “out of it” with minimum egg-on-their faces.

  37. mung says:

    I am so tired of the what ifs. You know that? If Tracey would have worn a condom this would have never happened either.

    • ytz4mee says:

      Thank you.

    • Knuckledraggingwino says:

      Better yet, if Tracy Martin had gotten himself castrated, preferably the old fashioned way with a stone axe, none of this would have happened.

      • howie says:

        What if Tracy’s parents had gone to Planned Parenthood? This would never have happened. This whole thing was “avoidable.” That is about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. This is insane. They are talking about a civil negligence in a Murder trial. The state seems to be pursuing a murder conviction in the same way.

  38. mung says:

    If it is a bad recording how did Matt get the good quality one?

    • ytz4mee says:

      Yes. Enquiring minds want to know ….

    • boutis says:

      Crump refused to answer a direct question that the recording was unaltered by anyone in his office or him. His story of stopping and stopping the recording because it would not record properly is his story and he is sticking to it. If it was a problem of course that should be in the recording. “Can you hear me now?” is so common in evidentiary recordings but Crump, the legal eagle and super experienced litigator, did not do that. Uh huh, sure.

    • hexx says:

      Guttman had an assistent with the recording hardware. They probably recorded with a LINE IN connection, Crump from the external speaker with his hand held recorder’s built-in mic.

      That’s not a good way, and those kind of devices as Crump’s have a LINE IN possibility also, but on the other hand it was redundant if Guttman was getting the pristine LINE IN recording

      Great that the duration of the interview can established from the phone records, so the amount of cuts/edits/mess ups can be determined.

  39. TandCrumpettes says:

    Loved the question about manipulating the recording, and Crump’s response was, “I just talked to that girl once in my life! I never manipulated her!” hahahahahahaha!!!!

    • boutis says:

      MOM has already said this morning in the interview that they have an eyewitness of W8 being flown to be interviewed by BDLR or whoever. This has not been given over in discovery. I bet Beasley has had investigators everywhere and the prosecution and Crump did not even know it. They don’t know what MOM, West and Beasley have already and are going to be bringing out item by item.

      • howie says:

        Brady stuff is what has to be turned over. The defense can ask for non-Brady evidence. I think. For example. Anything that could hurt the state must be given up. But since the defense is participating in discovery all the evidence must be given. It is at the option of the defense.

    • eastern2western says:

      load of bs, there was a segment in the tape where crump asked the girl to repeat what she told him before. It is definite that there is witness tampering.

    • Sharon says:

      OK–I just lost it there. He REALLY said that???? Good. Grief.

    • jello333 says:

      He’s just not a very smart guy. And I just thought of something: I bet every single person who has ever agreed to a settlement with him in the past, is now kicking themselves like crazy. “Oh my god, I let THIS person scare me into a settlement?! I want my money back! Oh….”

  40. Vanya says:

    Why does no one ask the question, Why did this girl not run to the cops ASAP? Did she not know Trayvon died???? Why doesn’t anyone question that?

    • ytz4mee says:

      Because they don’t want answers that would exonerate George and pokes holes in the Julison created “narrative”. The media has always nibbled around the edges of the truth, but never taken a big bite out of Crump’s myriad of falsehoods.

    • myopiafree says:

      Hi Vanya – Probably because she knew NOTHING – until Crump told her about it. Other “black holes” are that (presumably) she is talking to her boy-friend, who (she said) was “in fear” of this “White guy”, and WENT BACK to “get him”. Then, after hearing a “confrontation” (caused by TM), THE PHONE GOES DEAD (she said). So would an an 18 year-old adult do when the phone goes dead. 1) Call back – no answer. 2) Call Tray-dad. 2) Call Tray mom. 3) Tell her mother? 4) Call the POLICE. SHE DID ABSOLUTELLY NOTHING. That make you suspect she is fibbing – big time. Yes, we all, “questioned that” – and figured she had been coached by Crump.

      • Vanya says:

        But why does someone not poise this to Sonny Hostin or that terrible Vinnie Politan? They dont even think to ask that questions. I guess its not a big deal he died and she just didn’t think mentioning he was scared mattered?

        • janc1955 says:

          Vanya — I think they don’t pose the tough questions because they don’t dare appear rayycciss, and questioning anything about the Scheme Team’s narrative brands you immediately as a rayycciss.

    • brocahontas says:

      Obviously it is because police are racist. Everyone knows that.

    • howie says:

      Because she was afraid she would not be able to Pee.

  41. Whole bunch of new stuff released, dec 7 2012.

    See page 71 of Defendant’s Motion to Modify Conditions of Release.

    “…..You guys fuc–d us up the a$$….”

    http://gzlegalcase.com/

  42. Sentenza says:

    Given Al Sharpton’s history (Tawana Brawlety) what are the implications for NBC since he’s been so high profile in this case?

  43. clerkdante says:

    Has anyone seen the latest idiocy over at DoucheProtestsTooMuch?

    They are laughably photoshopping tiny little guns pics over George’s injuries to try to “prove” (my good these idiots are as bad as troofers) that George’s injuries are self inflicted as he must have hit himself with his own gun.

    Desperation has set in, and I couldn’t be more amused.

    • eastern2western says:

      zimmerman would need to be extremely flexible in order for him to smack the back of his head with his gun.

      • wrongonred says:

        Not only that, but It impossible to generate the inertia needed with such a small and light handgun as the Keltec he used in the limited range of motion one would have behind their head. Something heavier like my CZ P-06 could not even do it. Plus, you do not pistol whip with the side of the weapon. How are you supposed to hold it and not bash your hand? Georges hands had no bruising, and his 9mm is quite small as 9mms go.

    • howie says:

      They should be subjected to forensic testing. They should have their heads shaved and then be bashed with the gun to demonstrate the veracity of their theory.

  44. eastern2western says:

    hello mr sharpton, can you say witness intimidation?

  45. Dawn Doe says:

    Vinnie Politan is driving me crazy. Can’t stand him!

    • Vanya says:

      He is so stupid. He does no research and goes with emotion… its pathetic. Hes talking about money, and how George spends it. How is this guy still on the air? He has the instincts god gave a goat.

    • mung says:

      Hey Vinnie, who cares what you think about how they spent the money.

      • boutis says:

        He did not get the memo about Beasley and NBC. It hasn’t clicked in his mind that a white shoe firm full of Philadelphia lawyers `is funding the research and expert witnesses to dovetail with their suit against all of media. I think we know why he is on TV instead of in practice.

    • I know!!!! Every time he opens his mouth I scream at the TV. It’s a wonder I haven’t thrown something at the screen!

    • howie says:

      Reminds me of Shep Smith.

    • flawesttexas says:

      TruTV (CourtTV) never learns, as many times as they have had to settle out of court for slandering people in cases they cover

      A lawyer friend once told me “CourtTV had to change its name because they were going to court so much being sued for slander…and got tired of hearing ‘Court’”

      GZ has some easy money coming to him from TruTV

  46. boutis says:

    Mom just referred to “spinning it up by the publicity agent”. LOL. Julison is the “spinning” “publicity agent”.

    The school records are relevant if any “violent tendencies”. as well as social media. And “specific acts of violence may be admissible” even if Zimmerman did not know him is in case law in Florida. FBI won’t turn over records because of “political infestation” of this case.

  47. wrongonred says:

    To the Legal Eagles here, is it possible that a Federal Suit of Civil and/or Criminal Conspiracy under Title 18 USC (RICO Provisions) be brought against the Scheme Team?

    • myopiafree says:

      Not by Obama – and his legal staff – if you know what I mean.

      • wrongonred says:

        I do know that the Civil portion of RICO under Title 18 can be brought by private Counsel. Perhaps I still holdout hope that there are decent Federal Judges out there who were appointed well before Obama that would hear the case…….perhaps that is overly optimistic….

    • John Galt says:

      Attempt to properly plead (pattern of activity, predicate acts, proximate cause, etc) a civil rico action and defend it against the inevitable Rule 12 motions to dismiss is often more trouble than its worth. There are numerous potential state law causes of action and a particularly attractive uncapped punitive damages provision in Florida law. I guess my question is: Why RICO?

      • wrongonred says:

        Well, I guess I was thinking that after the Persecution of George Zimmerman, that I do not have a whole lot of faith in Florida’s Judicial System, or juries. Was thinking that perhaps a RICO claim could be brought to use a Federal venue as a result of the collusion, fraud, and attempt to defraud via the Trashcan Tour and other venues for which Tracy, Sybrina, Crump, Parks, Jackson, Julison, Corey, BDLR, and others engaged it. Plus, I was also concerned that perhaps a District Court might be less likely to accept the immunity defense which Corey and BDLR will undoubtedly attempt to claim.

        Plus, I think such a strategy, naming Parks and Crump as essentially a criminal enterprise engaging in collusion and fraud to defraud the public and private entities, as well as to both libel and slander a man, in an attempt to incite others to take his life, and have him wrongfully imprisoned should that fail, raises to the level that would be visible enough to disbar all attorneys involved, and flexible to cover the near countless causes of action of the various parties involved. This is a mixture of both Civil and Criminal conspiracy. Not only do I want George to be set for life for what they have put him through, but I want to see the actors on this go to jail to set an example. I want them held accountable for inciting the acts committed upon Matthew Sheppard, and I want to see them disbarred, and put on trial, as they scramble to rat one another out as the bus approaches. Perhaps it is vindictive of me, but these folks attempted to destroy this man’s life, and that of his family, his spouse, and his friends, all for their own selfish gain.

  48. ytz4mee says:

    Hmm… video tape of Benjamin Crump’s reaction while he was watching Angela Corey announce the charge on April 11th, 2012 has disappeared down the memory hole. One video just has a TV test pattern where the clip of Benjamin Crump reacting gleefully and licking his lips in antici–pation.
    Benjamin Crump, Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin watched the announcement from the Convention Center in Washington, DC surrounded by multiple members of the BGI.
    http://mediagallery.usatoday.com/Zimmerman+charged/G3693

    • smoothcriminal says:

      http://mediagallery.usatoday.com/Zimmerman+charged/G3693
      caption
      4/11/2012
      Deloyd Parker, right, tells Lee Rhyne at the SHAPE community center in Houston about Trayvon Martin as they watch Florida State Attorney Angela Corey announce that George Zimmerman will be charged with the second-degree murder of Trayvon, 17.

      more like
      Deloyd Parker, right, indoctrinates Lee Rhyne with hate for the white man at the SHAPE community center in Houstin. He explained “see that white bitch, she arrested that cracker that killed a little boy who looked just like you because he was black just like you. white people are evil and cant be trusted, except the females. i want you to remember this day forever, those white people are evil and you need to hate them”

  49. minor4 says:

    Watching InSession now .. the issue is not the fact that Crump recorded the conversation; the issue is the manner and out takes of the tape and the fact that the original recording is being withheld.

  50. minor4 says:

    Sunny Hostin is an idiot

  51. DawnDoe says:

    The true colors of the “In Session” panel came out in this case. I’ve lost tons of respect for most of them.

    • ytz4mee says:

      Yep, race card played early and often during the legal commentary today.
      Politan even states to Crump: the evidence is on the screen, my skin color is different from yours ….
      Ick.

  52. Kim says:

    They are all on TV now and no longer practicing law for a reason :)

  53. eastern2western says:

    These stupid trayvonites have always based their judgments on emotions, race or some kind of imaginatry street rule. However, this country is ruled by the letters of the law.

    • Sharon says:

      “However, this country is ruled by the letters of the law.”

      Not nearly to the degree it was at one time. Our Congress does not follow the law. The POTUS does not follow the law. The AG of the US does not follow the law. Our Border Patrol is not allowed to follow the law. Much of the Florida system is apparently quite accustomed to not following the law, or they wouldn’t have been making the choices we’ve been watching them make for going on 10 months now.

      We are no longer a nation consistently under the rule of law. Unfortunately. That’s why so many are highly concerned about our survival as a nation.

      If the major players in this travesty were not pretty comfortable about their chances of succeeding with false charges and civil actions, they would never have tried. Their assumptions were based on a history of success.

  54. david says:

    Not sure what interview this idiot watched: BigBoi ‏@BigBoithedog
    @attorneycrump Thank you for your Insession interview today! So glad you are standing up for witness #8 and not backing down to the defense

  55. John McLachlan says:

    Could the victims of racially motivated attacks, whose perpetrators said anything which indicated that their motive was due to their desire for “justice for Trayvon” sue the Martin family, their lawyers and media consultant, as well as the media companies who promoted and publicized the false narrative of racial persecution of an innocent black child?
    If the extensive publicity given to the media narrative had actually been the truth, then such attacks were predictably inevitable.
    The perpetrators of the false narrative, therefore, were just as callously indifferent to the victims of such consequential attacks which they were de facto inciting by their false narrative, as they were towards George Zimmerman and his family.

  56. nameofthepen says:

    Better late than never. I just finished reading through this whole thread. WHAT A READ!!

    I gotta couple things I’d like to say, although the room is pretty empty by now, lol.

    1. Especially loved Boutis mentioning that

    I bet Beasley has had investigators everywhere and the prosecution and Crump did not even know it. They don’t know what MOM, West and Beasley have already and are going to be bringing out item by item.

    LMAO! So damned if they talk, and damned if they don’t. Too delicious! :D

    2. Wonder if Hollywood has begun bidding for the rights to the film version of how a modern-day Frodo, and his cobbled-together group of rag-tag hobbits, giants and heroes defeated the mighty forces of Sauron?

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