Grand Blanc law enforcement has identified the suspect in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints church shooting and fire as a 40-year-old man from Burton, Michigan.
The local police said a 40-year-old male ran his truck into the church, then exited his vehicle and opened fire with an assault rifle inside a church where hundreds of people were attending services. The suspect then set fire to the church.
At least one person is confirmed dead, but more victims are expected as the search continues through the burned-out building. Two police officers initially responded and engaged the gunman preventing more casualties. The gunman is dead.
The FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), local and state law enforcement responded.
PRESIDENT TRUMP – “I have been briefed on the horrendous shooting that took place at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, in Grand Blanc, Michigan. The FBI was immediately on scene, and will be leading the Federal Investigation, and providing full support to State and Local Officials.
The suspect is dead, but there is still a lot to learn. This appears to be yet another targeted attack on Christians in the United States of America. The Trump Administration will keep the Public posted, as we always do. In the meantime, PRAY for the victims, and their families. THIS EPIDEMIC OF VIOLENCE IN OUR COUNTRY MUST END, IMMEDIATELY!” [source]
I’m not personally Mormon, but those I’ve known over the years were all decent people. Pray for them.
The attacks against Christianity, heterosexuality, and white people will not stop unless they are forced to stop. In the meantime, arm-up and be ready. The communists are desperate and lashing out.
You don’t have to be Mormon, just Christian Constitutionalist. Look at the PUtnam family in MIchigan!!
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/09/christian-trump-supporting-reality-tv-show-family-suffers/
Dr. Blake Putman is our family doctor. He was one of the few that didn’t enforce masking for patients and didn’t recommend the shot. When my girls would mention in an appointment that they were struggling with anxiety, he would take the time to quote Scripture and pray with them. My youngest once said that was the first time a doctor ever quoted a parable of Jesus to her during an appointment. My heart is breaking for the family and praying fervently for Dr. Putman, his children and niece to recover.
Just because someone says he’s a Christian doesn’t make him a Christian, because a Christian must be validly baptized and believe in the God of Christianity. The Catholic Church holds Mormon baptisms invalid because, even though the baptismal formula they use is correct, the meaning of the words “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” are so alien to Christian belief that they essentially belong to another religion.
When it comes to Jesus, Christians believe he is fully human and fully divine, and he has always been divine given that he is the second person of the Trinity, God the Son. Mormons, however, believe that Jesus Christ was once an “intelligence” such as us who existed from eternity. He was not always divine, and he was not always the Son of God. Instead, God chose him to become the “firstborn” among the intelligences by giving him the first spirit body. In 1909, the Mormon Church’s leadership released a statement that read, “The Father of Jesus is our Father also. . . . Jesus, however, is the firstborn among all the sons of God—the first begotten in the spirit, and the only begotten in the flesh. He is our elder brother, and we, like him, are in the image of God.”
Instead of being completely different in kind from human beings, this counterfeit Christ is different from us only in degree (hence the term “eldest brother”). He is just a more exalted spirit-child of God the Father, which reduces him from being the eternal creator of the universe to being merely one highly praised part of it, which is antithetical to true Christian belief.
You are not the judge of who is Christian. Only Jesus Christ is our judge.
Your understanding as outlined above is incorrect. If you’d like to get a clearer understanding of the truth, please feel free to contact me.
Too soon. Let the blood dry before you start attacking Mormons.
It is Sunday, the Lord’s day, those people were in church, the Lord’s house, worshipping him.
Here is my response to this nonsensical statement: The Good Samaritan found a Jew in a ditch, who had been passed by as other fellow Jews saw him, but would not help due to their “beliefs/laws”. The Samaritan, who had the wrong faith, wrong Messiah, and was not accepted as righteous by the Jews, stopped, helped the Jewish man in the ditch, set him up with help, and returned to check on him. Jesus asked the question – who is the real righteous and good man in this example? It wasn’t the Jews who had the law, and the so-called “true belief”, it was the Samaritan. Yes, the Mormons have different beliefs and views about God and Christ, and I am not one of them, but I believe this will all be resolved in the end when we account for how we lived! So, stop this bunk that only certain people have the “Truth” from your perspective and look at their deeds as well. That is what our Lord and Saviour did, follow his example!
Also, I frequently listen to the Mormon Tabernacle Choir on Youtube for some of the most inspiration music on the internet. I cannot believe that the angels and our God in Heaven listens to these beautiful voices and closes off their ability to hear just because of their views. Their praise of our Lord and Saviour is just as valid as any other group who calls out the name of Jesus Christ!
Grow up in your faith, as Paul told us to. Read all of the Bible, Hebrew and Greek. The whole story is there.
Luke 13:2-5 KJV
And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things? [3] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. [4] Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? [5] I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
The sin is in your eye, brother. Not your gaze.
Or maybe you should talk to those on their death beds who want forgiveness without everything you state. Do they get it or not?
“Just because someone says he’s a Christian doesn’t make him a Christian.”
You are absolutely right, and Jesus even told us there would be people who professed to be Christians —
who even prophesied,
who even called out His name,
who even cast out demons
and who did “many wonderful works” in His name —
that He will cast into Hell because the were workers of iniquity that He never knew.
Matthew 7 starts with Jesus saying, “Judge not, lest you be judged.” Twenty-two verses later Jesus tells His followers that there will be other Christians who might look like they are following Him, who might look ‘good,’ but they are not.
Matthew 7:22&23,
Jesus speaking,
“Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? And in Thy name have we not cast out devils? And in Thy name have we not done many wonderful works?
Then will I profess to them, depart from me, you who are workers of iniquity, for I never knew you.”
Just because someone says they’re a Christian, does not make them a Christian, which is a sorrowful thing for Jesus The Lord, and for the body of Christ.
Jesus Christ was a warrior (provided the sword of truth) against the jewish mob and cast down their satanism where it belongs. People quote him and don’t know what he was about. Same thing, Joseph Smith versus the jewish masons.
In every one of these shootings you will find one common denominator: the attacker will be on psychotropic drugs (that are advertised over and over on TV) or they are under the care of a psychiatrist or both.
The strategy is surveiling until you find a target that shows signs of insanity.
Then focus on them via interaction suggestiveness ( different cover acting like the friend) and via aggitation ( act like the enemy)
Once one realizes that we are currently at war, everything starts to make sense.
What about the Putnam family, also of Michigan. ?? Three killed by a Florida truck driver on 9/26. Christian, religious, good family. Another murder by a Leftist vs. Christians. Nice state, MIchigan.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2025/09/christian-trump-supporting-reality-tv-show-family-suffers/
This guy will be used as the narrative to deflect from these sort of issues, organized terrorist operations etc.
No mention of the truck driver’s status… makes me wonder what makes him a “Florida man”.
Went to Disney World once?
Smells suspiciously similar to “Maryland man”.
Accident not far from church shooting
The accident was in Caro, Michigan, which is a little over an hour north of Grand Blanc.
An hour is not that far
Hey….No need to denigrate the entire state of Michigan. Did you read “Florida truck driver?”
No one said, “nice state, Florida.”
Let’s keep our civility, please.
I agree where are you from!?
Michigan elected President Trump the last 3 times.
The voter fraud was so blatant in Michigan when Biden was installed, but they didn’t dare pull that again.
There are over 30 churches within a five mile radius where I reside in West Michigan.
During COVID when Dem. Governor Whitmer was using heavy handed rules I witnessed many young and old protest and refuse the masks, the shutting down of schools and small businesses and not caving to the pressure of the COVID vaccine.
As a lifetime Michigander I feel it’s been trending much more red than perceived for the last 20 years.
As any state Michigan has a lot of improving to do.
The DEI has ruined the public schools and even in the late 1990s it was obvious enough that my 3 children went to private school for just that reason.
Detroit is still very depressed economically but, the population has plummeted so much none of those counties are blue there’s no infrastructure left.
The future of Michigan depends on if the majority has their say and that majority in Michigan is getting stronger and much more organized and involved (they get the stakes).
I have noticed since President Trump was re-elected people are finally being more open about their religious beliefs, patriotism, and love of MAGA.
Plus it’s where the Motor City Mad Man was born and raised. 🎶
And Bob Seger!
Michigan rocks. I have gone to Holland Michigan several times to buy new boats built there.
Rockefeller Patent Medication – aka psych drug – profile???
At some point (preferably years ago), the witch ‘doctors’ (i.e., psychiatrists) need to be held accountable (and the entire voodoo ‘medicine’ program completely removed from the real medical profession.
He’s dead, but they have surrounded the house.
Are they planning on arresting the house as a coconspirator ?
Speaking of houses. Did we ever get to see the house of the alleged rooftop shooter of President Trump? Or a current photo of said shooter?
He was the shooter and yes the house was shown.
No, but I did see a WEF ad with him in it. Hmmmmmm…….
The police are worried about incendiary devices in the home. Apparently one or more were found at the church.
Why did you put up that picture of him?
I’m obviously not a fan of this guy, but all the other linked pictures of him look reasonably normal. The crazy expression here made me think, “yikes” but the crazy look is because a kid is squirming out of his hands.
Not sure why I care but let’s be honest as to who he is.
Yeah, at least as honest as the Trayvon Martin images shown endlessly in the MSM.
Of course we all know that so many of our Veteran’s are in big trouble both physically and mentally..
He has a “Stop Trump” sign in his front yard. It’s on google earth satellite photo.
Yes, there’s a “STOP” sign on the fence going into his backyard where there is an opening in the fence, presumably to let people know to “STOP”, and not drive into his backyard.
The “Trump / Pence” campaign sign is wedged in between the “STOP” sign and fence, oriented at the top of the sign.
Well that was exactly the purpose of it. Did you see the screenshots of his Facebook page before they were taken down? All anti-Trump posts.
This is is how fox news is headlining it.
None of this will stop until Soros, China, global scumbags, and all NGO/ 501c3/4’s are eviscerated.
What does China have to do with any of this Soros, NGO insanity?
Look up Neville Singham
This guy is based in Shanghai but has presence in many countries :
Singham furthered Chinese interests through a network of nonprofit organisations registered in the US.
At its centre were four new nonprofits with dust-dry names like “United Community Fund” and “Justice and Education Fund.” They have almost no real-world footprints, listing their addresses only as UPS store mailboxes in Illinois, Wisconsin and New York. Due to US law, which does not require nonprofits to declare the names of individual donors, Singham operates in relative obscurity while wielding significant control over these groups. One of these nonprofits is headed by Singham’s wife, Jodie Evans, and others are run by former ThoughtWorks employees. From these nonprofits, “millions of dollars flowed around the world,”
https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/us-tech-baron-singham-chinese-propaganda-nyt-8880883/
All part of the infiltration of the US.
Money, spies, arms, trafficking, drug cartels… who is NOT attempting to overthrow us?
Russia.
??? I suppose you mean directly, right? Technically, I suppose you’re right.
But I’d just say we should also be mindful that “The friend of my enemy is also my enemy.”
China funds some of these violent leftist groups.
Another day; another mass killing. Pray for our country. Pray for humanity. Pray for human and Biblical justice.
More people are killed in Chicago on an average weekend.
Apples to oranges. At best.
BS. Killing’s killing. Chicago has more killings in a weekend than were killed here.
You don’t know that yet.
I bet he’ right. Chicago murders are under counted on ourpose. Crime stats DON’T lie!
We don’t yet know how many bodies they will find in the burnt out church
They’re not being short up and burned in churches in Chicago
These multiple church attacks are organized.
Two in Michigan and. One in Minnesota in the last two months.
This is beyond unacceptable.
A place of worship is sacred and to invade that place with violence guns and bombs these are not random.
Imagine the survivors if you can’t feel safe in church it’s shattering.
Even 5 years ago I would not have believed church shootings and bombings were becoming a common occurrence in the USA. 😞
its not a contest
There’s killing and then, there’s killing. Thank you.
That may be true, but it’s not relevant. They still don’t know if people in the church were trapped as it burned.
Say church killing
Say drug addled killing
This IS NOT a mass killing if only the perp is dead. Choose your words more wisely or you are a mouthpiece for the dezinformatzia 😉
You know what the masons say; everything is scheduled.
I live in Burton. I have seen that truck driving around town on many occasions. I never thought I would see it in such a horrific circumstance as this.
Last night, the bomb squad and canine unit were called to a Meijer location in Burton. Now it makes me wonder if there’s any connection to what happened today. They are now searching the shooters house, which is right by that Meijer location.
Good observations!
Just a hunch, but it seems like prudent precautions if the person of interest was a combat engineer.
Police supposedly found incendiary devices at the church.
Most likely the answer is yes.
Manifesto (and maybe some 911 highjacker passports) dropped in 3.. 2..
Ann Coulter Rule in effect? (The longer the time until announcing the criminal, the greater the likelihood the person is not white.)
That’s why we have already seen his picture. He is 100% a crazy leftist or MK ULTRA patient
The Coulter Rule is always in effect. It’s permanent.
Doesn’t really matter who the shooter is the Democrats are getting what the want by provoking people with their violent rhetoric to cause even more division. Of course the liberal media will spin it as right wing violence no matter what. That’s to provoke right leaning wing nuts. There is no where as many of them but they do exist.
These tragedies are more than just attacks on Christians.
The users and abusers of the DRUGS, which are the root cause come from all parts of the “political spectrum”. The drugs wreck ones moral compass and strip mental inhibitions from the user … there is also the cases of those going off their DRUGS that sustained their moral compass …. then all it takes is for the fuse to be lit and triggers activated by Social Media and MSM Broadcasts of “Democrat LEADERS” and Democrat Celebrity Influencers.
Then the democrats and media get to play the blame game no matter the identity of the attacker(s) and victim(s) … ignoring the drugs (as well as potential triggering personal reasons) and going straight to either: GUNS or “Right Wing” Ideology as the cause.
Significant parts of the medical profession, medical industry and government are willing dealers of the drugs and not only for financial reasons.
There have always been those who demonize the Mormon Faith via pointing out the Cult like fringe groups as the norm. There are even TV series, still shown, that do the very same thing.
So, there is allot out there on Social Media and Main Stream Public Broadcast to trigger a deranged soul.
Causality of letting the mafia control the currency and medical system (and wallstreet).
I think we may end up with a personal, not political, motive. Was he in the middle of a marital break-up, losing custody of his son? Did he blame the pastor/members of the LDS Church for advising/assisting her? Was she a member or recently began attending? Sometimes men feel conspired against in losing custody, rage at those they blame (rightly or not), and think they have nothing left to lose. PTSD/pharma can certainly amplify things. I remember a man shooting a family court judge in the courtroom, after “losing everything”, another tried to shoot a pastor he thought convinced his wife to leave him.
Add in to this thought that the courts are incredibly weaponized today- many men feel that it’s impossible to get treated fairly in court, this all adds to it.
And even more women are left without financial support , or very little, and the courts are weaponized against the women so that they’re expected to raise the children, to get a full time job, pay the lawyers and give up half of everything they contributed as well.
It goes both ways.
The ongoing misogyny here is offensive , to say the least.
Hey Scarlett, who the weaponized courts favor, whether it’s the mother or the father is different from state to state, and it varies Judge by Judge across those states–I’d think that you’d understand that.
To accuse me or anyone of misogyny based upon nothing but a short comment on a thread is what is offensive.
Your comment is ignorant in the extreme. Saying the courts are “weaponized” against women is ludicrous. In almost every state, the courts are fully aligned against men, i.e., weaponized against men. There is so much evidence for this it’s almost pointless to try and explain it. NHnative is right. Hurling the ridiculous “misogyny” label is a regular feature of communists. Pure idiocy.
Not true I worked in West Michigan and dealt with my county’s FOC and custody cases dealing with child abuse and neglect and found it very equitable and fair regarding the mother and father.
Frankly initially many men that were just as stable, able and willing to take on the responsibility of equal custody were shocked they had the opportunity.
If anything the women perceive they are more capable, but it’s very important to investigate and determine which home serves the child’s needs best.
The judges are looking at those things: ability to provide a stable home, a desire for the parent to keep the child in the same school if possible, job history, mental health, criminal history, and any substance abuse issues.
That is what a FOC report which is submitted to the judge or magistrate considers, not the sex of the parent.
In Michigan the mother getting full custody out of the gate is not the reality in the family court system.
The unfortunate reality is what Charlie Kirk was trying to save the two parent household, a traditional family.
My middle school grandson attends a rural school (that small community voted 83% Trump) but over half ( that’s being judicious) of the students do not reside with both parents.
If as a society our norm was to not accept that reality this country would thrive.
Think of the economic impact alone!
When housing costs are soaring the expense of raising children in separate households is staggering!
The two income households are becoming extinct and that is a huge drain on a stable thriving economy.
In reality many of these divorces make neither any happier and the struggles of raising children separately benefits none involved.
The church any church is a grounding force for families and that’s why the left wants to obliterate them.
Thank you. I was thinking maybe just simple girlfriend problems, while everyone else is blaming everything but the kitchen sink.
Maybe we should wait until the investigation is complete.
Supposedly he had no connection to the church.
This is plausible. The church absolutely gets overly involved in these types of matters. My knowledge/experience is different in that before my memory officially kicks in, my mother and father were divorcing. The family was Mormon. My mother was doing things which were not approved of in the church, specifically drinking and smoking. Apparently my mother was a “hot girl” at one time and mixed into the wrong circles before marrying my father. Anyway, when the divorce was happening, she blackmailed the church to not excommunicate her as she stated she would never allow me or my brothers to attend or become members of the LDS church. So that happened.
I’m amazed that more of this doesn’t happen when a man is stripped of his family for society reasons. It could easily be that the mother/wife had a friend who brought her into the church and then everything fell apart for them.
Bless all the men here with stable families. I have a “boring wife” meaning we are happy with very little drama. Disagreements mostly include what we should have for dinner and mostly I’m “I don’t care” and she is mostly undecided often changing her a mind at least once often twice before we start making dinner 🙂 Not horrible 🙂
But I have lived in a chaotic marriage. I only survived it because a particular female police officer KNEW what was really going on and she was able to advocate for me when my ex- was pulling her crap. I was LUCKY in so many ways in so many instances. But there are men who are COMPLETELY destroyed by the government and the courts and all the rest. It’s not beyond imagination that a church got involved and became the target. Government is too big a target but not a church I guess.
A person who has been dehumanized, which is what happens to men in these cases, may have decided to express “how does it feel to be dehumanized?” Nothing quite like this has happened to me but if it had I don’t think I could do that sort of thing but the feeling of anger and rage directed at people involved in the destruction of his home and family? I don’t find that at ALL hard to imagine.
↑↑ THIS ↑↑ You’ve read my mind. First place I went when the news broke.
I’m glad that I have been reading here for years.
Three things immediately come to mind.
It will happen slow at first, then all at once.
Hang on, its going to get a lot worse.
Live your best life.
I’m ready for the first two and determined to follow number 3. Thanks Sundance!
Is MKUltra still a thing? I read it has never really been shut down.
It was never shut down . They just changed the number and the financing.. .
You are living in it now.
What does MKUltra mean?
see eye aye mind control program, been around a very long time, and, my guess, only one of many such still ongoing.
For popular culture representations, see the Jason Bourne series, and Mel Gibson in “Conspiracy Theory.”
No,I used wrong name. Should be jebg46 , I think. So sorry
It is but I’m not convinced any motive discussed is sufficient.
Don’t ever ever watch the media; subconscious brain poisoning.
It’s really clear that the Churches all across the nation have GOT TO Have some armed guards all over the property and within the Church services. And then add this into a well armed Congregation.
This is happening because these crazy people know they can do all this.
I’d like to point out another pattern I’m seeing here and that is that the gunman winds up dead- are these ‘suicide bombers’ so to speak?
It seems like this point is something for the FBI or someone to look into, if dying as they commit this final act is also part of the plan.
It seems like there would be some chatter about this detail if this is the case and then that gives them another clue to be tuned into to prevent the next one.
Well, a rational person would know the probability of making a positive impact with this type of act is precisely zero.
I’ve been at my wits end at jobs before, and it triggered me to conduct a job search. For a mentally ill person, it’s hard to get in their head and know what makes them take such extreme measures against a church or any other group of innocent people. I mean, you can say a vet has PSTD, but the exact thought process that leads them to commit these acts is not well known, or you’d think we’d have a better grasp of it.
I do know of some churches that utilize off duty police officers who are also parishioners as ushers. They are inside and outside watching the parking lot. Perhaps a firearm is under that suit of clothes?
This is from Tacoma. A very crime ridden city.
MCL 28.45o(1)(e): (1) Subject to subsection (5), an individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, or who is exempt from licensure under section 12a(h), shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following: (e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.
By default, churches are targets in MI law.
When are we going to address mental illness?
Just one thought….
Personally, I think a lot of it starts with the bullying in the lower grades of schools…kids learn bullying behavior, am thinking, at home and perfect it during grade school, high school and college…implement it in the working years..
The victims of bullying, have deep wounds. Often, they have been already targeted and no real help for them other than to walk away and that is not always an option. And getting help via conselling, is not always an option and if it is, its NOT helpful. At some point, people snap.
Our schools are in the business of creating very broken people.
Who gets to define what mental illness is?
THIS point has a whole lot to do with why we’ve not gone there.
Yes.
To me, the psychiatric profession lost all credibility the moment they started denying that gender dysphoria is a legitimate mental illness.
Seems to me that not long before that they also stopped any attempt to alleviate eating disorders, which was yet another denial of the reality that obesity is not a good thing.
Absolutely awful. Prayers to the victims family and friends and all who were there.
I find it quite unfortunate that some here use this thread about people being harmed as a time and place to spread untruths about this religion.
It is indeed not the Christian way.
Agree with you. Those comments have been removed.
Thank you.
Dittos
Thank you As rem
They are everywhere speaking untruths regardless in and out of season.
Why is it that suspects, generally, are shot dead .. as opposed to ‘shoot to disable’??? I would think that LE have the means to bring down a suspect .. EVEN in hectic situations, in the attempt.. to keep said suspect alive … if only to sus-out pertinent information that might be needed to continue a ‘background’ investigation regarding who else might be involved in said crime.
That is not realistic.
Most training is for center mass shots. Best way to incapacitate. Surest target to hit.
Imagine trying to shoot the gun out of his hands. Incredibly difficult to do. When you fail, he shoots back.
Any police officer will tell you they have no time to wound versus kill. They aren’t going to voluntarily give the bad guy a first shot! And have you seen how fast a person with a knife can move?
Your wish for an interesting story does not trump the need to immediately stop these evildoers.
Trick shooting is not an option.
I’m not buying it!
Let me guess, you saw it on TV…smh
You’ve never handled a firearm. It is absolutely insane to think during a high-pressure, life-threatening situation that you can just aim for the hand or something. That’s not doable. You aim dead center so you hopefully hit SOMETHING. When blood is rushing and nerves firing, you do not play games.
Center mass, always. That is what I was taught.
and repeat
I heard that annie oakley was pretty good at hitting small, moving targets (apple, coin) under duress – and with a crowd watching.
Barney Fife with gun safety tip:
Annie Oakley was famous because she was unusually talented. I don’t even know whether she ever faced death (as opposed to a cheering crowd) with her weapon, nor would that be relevant.
We currently need to deal with an epidemic of death-dealing monsters. It’s a war we must fight with the army we have – police officers who are dedicated and extremely brave, but not all of them Annie Oakleys.
Interesting point. Because then the shooters have to be Jack Rubied by their handlers.
One thing is certain, something is going on here. You have a guy on a boat shooting up a waterside restaurant in North Carolina, this guy driving a truck into a church and then opening fire, and another guy breaking into a home in Spokane firing shots then yelling that the aliens are coming. That guy then went to a hospital where he shot and killed another person.
Then you have Marjorie Taylor Greene sending a cryptic twit that she is not suicidal.
Multiple people going off kilter. It’s not normal.
Sending “a cryptic twit” gave me a chuckle. Reminds me of Monty Python crossed with Spy vs Spy.
My fearful guess is that the more common these incidents become, the more likely it is for unstable individuals who feel grievances to cross the line to become copycats.
I’m certainly not a psychologist, but I think there have been good studies showing that the more people are surrounded by violence or exposed to violent ideas, the more likely they are to do violence.
A truly vicious circle.
(This is not at all to deny the need for lawful self-defense, including possibly lethal defense if it is truly warranted. The laws of most states have this covered pretty thoroughly, as do many religious teachings.)
I am wondering……..
does the coroner do a comprehensive tox screen of these shooters?
If so, there must be a commonality of what drugs/meds they might be taking?
do we ever hear about this? I don’t recall hearing/reading anything.
No, we never hear.
That angle needs to be pursued.
Also a TX casino shooting. 2 dead, one a retired CBP agent.
4th turning
Or, as Poso puts it – where the 4th turning meets 5th generation warfare.
While the squabbles continue about who’s a Christian versus who’s a “real” Christian on this section…I’ll just leave this little tidbit here.
https://www.fec.gov/data/receipts/individual-contributions/?contributor_name=thomas+sanford
I see lots of donations by “Thomas Sanford” but none from Grand Blanc MI. Unless I missed something.
I saw Scott Adams post something similar. Wonder if there is a way to tell if it is the same guy?
Also, there have been many whose names have been used to launder donations to ActBlue. Some “donors” were not aware they had “given” small amounts hundreds of times.
Oh, stop with your bigotry.
There was another shooting at Lake Ariel , Pennsylvania today. Near the Poconos.
Mercy ,there has been enough hate,darkness confusion, pain ,and despair this day …
may we find some peace this evening………………….
Amen Bjorkdream…
Amen, Ad rem.
Bjorkdream, that is a beautiful image.
Amen, so Be It. Thank you
🙏
Thank you, bjorkdream
“and the peace of God, which surpasseth all understanding, keep your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.”
Phil. 4:7
Yes!
Thanks bjorkdream…..gorgeous. I always enjoy your posts and pictures.
Thanks for the theology lesson./s
Wait until the anti-Catholics show up to say Catholics are not Christians, or the Catholics come to say Protestants are not Christians.
It is all so tiresome.
These comments have and will continue to be removed. This is not a thread on theology. These poor souls aren’t even cold yet. SMH….
Thank you.
(shameful)
Thank You Ad rem…
Sounds like its not an easy job today.
Bless You for what you do.
Thank you. It’s kind of a “Father forgive them for they know not what they say”….
Oh, I really like that, aggie. Making a note!
Dawn, your first sentence might be appropriate in some contexts. But not this one.
This is about creating such anarchy law abiding people will willingly give up their right go bear arms.
Except that gun sales likely just went up, not down.
The autopen and its enablers (Soros, China etc) took this country to the edge of insanity and Trump is trying to pull us back amid unbelievable and loud screeching from the rats who are usually lying.
I wonder if some just can’t take the turmoil of all this so they grab a gun.
I don’t know.
But I do know that the truck that crashed into the church had two big American flags sticking out the back.
Liberals don’t do the flag thing on their vehicles.
I just saw a blurb on TGP that the guy had a stop sign with Trump/Pence below.
They have been trying to blame MAGA for every shooting all year.
I refuse to believe any of this early positioning. There’s already scrubbed social media. I hope someone saved it.
“opened fire with an assault rifle inside a church where hundreds of people were attending services.”
And none of them could return fire!
Many other churches have felt the need to have armed security, i.e. armed church members, at their worship services,
because this kind of atrocity has become all too common.
Actually, two of the members of the church responded and terminated the perpetrator. One was LEO and the other validly had concealed carry license.
One aspect of this surprises me.
Mormon doctrine teaches the need to be prepared for adversity.
Does that not include the need to prepare for threats such as befell this church?
Try reading the comment directly above yours in the replies.
Unconfirmed things coming out. The shooter may have been anti-Mormon.
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“Burton City Council Candidate Says He Spoke With Grand Blanc Township Church Shooting Suspect”…
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“Report that an eyewitness said of the shooting:”….
Christians should pack….in church.
The bible says not to murder. Self defense is not murder.
This is how some churches are handling the war on Christians.
At this point, we only know scant information.
The details of things thar happened during the tragedy, and the reactions of others may be known by some individuals – but not the public.
And that is o.k. A lot was quickly happening…
Prayers that people escaped a burning building… and prayers for those that were harmed or died – and their loved ones and friends.
The lost and harmed lives are tragic.
The building can be reconstructed.
Love thy neighbors
Scouts motto:
‘ always be prepared ‘
i.e. have a jacket available in case it gets cool outside. etc.
The video I posted happened already. The facts are known and it is an option. Many will take this option. Pray for them too.
Agree!
First responders – with a unidentified potential shooter inside the building – would not initially know where to enter….
Some people escaped. Some were shot by shooter while trying to escape (or while trying to attack the shooter).
Some people did not escape, and the heavy smoke and heat was a problem… I trust that they considered their options…and then maybe prayed for another answer…
Apparently the burned church rubble has cooled down, smoke is cleared.
A search of the rubble has found 2 bodies.
Tragic. Not good.
Does painting graffiti on others good works,
or miss creating a tragedy, etc.
ever heal a grudge?
I do not think so …
I think it lets evil thought eat at a hurt conscience.
A conscience that actually wants a door to be reopened to love and caring again….
And there are meaningful ways to incrementally seek that out…
Love thy neighbors…
imho
Yes they should but also take into consideration any possibility of not having a clear shot. You have hundreds of people scurrying everywhere to avoid being hit.
You should watch the video and see how it is done.
Many thanks to President Trump for calling this violence against Christians for what it is.
I am so sorry to see the pattern continuing, that these random violent attacks subside during Democrat presidencies, yet flourish under President Trump.
True evil at its industrious best.
RIP the newest victims of hate.
EXCLUSIVE: Burton City Council Candidate Says He Spoke With Grand Blanc Township Church Shooting Suspect in Chilling Conversation That May Reveal a Possible Motive.
?w=800&h=357
[video src="https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1972439337670250496/vid/avc1/1920x1080/ta2Ygo3DhNHOETH1.mp4" /]
https://xcancel.com/DaveBondyTV/status/1972451255113978016#m
Local news reports that the shooter lived in Park City for 9 years. There have been many who have advocated for armed security in LDS churches because of the long history of persecution but members believe in “Love one another as I have loved you,… Do to others… forgiveness… Judge not… live peaceably with all…For we walk by faith, not by sight”. I appreciate the respect and Christ like behavior most of you have shown. For those who have exposed their ignorance, you might consider practicing your religion. If everyone did that, the world would be a different place.
England has better coverage…War vet who attacked Michigan church wore ‘Make Liberals Cry’ shirt as horror new details revealed https://mol.im/a/15143303 via https://dailym.ai/android
Link is a paywall. I will seek other info.
The article disusses examples from social media that family is faithful, loving, Trump supporting, Christians who mourned Charlie Kirk. Mostly from shooter’s mom and wife. Shooter had pro Trump shirt in one picture and sign in yard.
It also shares family claim of PTSD as one person had once overheard discussions of it.
But no indications of motive in this article. Just background like setting. Discussing things that could apply to any of us.
As for PTSD, elsewhere I read that he would recover damaged vehicles. Don’t know about his involvement in fighting. But that means entering high risk areas where fighting happened. It also means dealing with the gory aftermath left behind after wounded or dead soldiers are evacuated.
But that is not a reason to commit murder. Let alone to give up all one has that is good in this life to plot and commit mass murder.
The count now is 4 dead and still searching with maybe half a dozen still unaccounted for.
The deep state wants to break up Charlie Kirk’s movement awful badly. First I find out on here that Charlie had a large Mormon contingent on his staff. His assassin happened to come from a Mormon family. Now, we have this weird American flag waving ‘anti-Mormon’ who commits this act of mass murder in Michigan. Just look up the name Cathy O’Brien to see how infested with deep state plots and schemes Michigan is. Bottom line- do not let the people who feared Charlie drive us apart based on religion.
was the suspect a Muslim?
‘Assault Rifle’?
*sigh*
By using communist talking point words we give them control of the narrative.
Modern Sporting Rifle is closer to accurate.
We cannot lose the war on the 2A!
Yes tragedies will happen but a disarmed population will suffer tyranny in the short term and genocide in the long term.
Look at the disarmed UK right now- you get longer prison sentences for social media post than rape or murder.
A study of history tells what’s next.
Canada is trying to disarm its people right now.
They are our neighbors, I’d argue they are our brothers and sisters.
Something is going on here, something is not right, suddenly, too many shootings and weird mass murders, it has to be on purpose. Something along the lines of you’re not safe in Trumps America…….fear
Just thinking about the timeline. News stories keep changing it.
It sounds like 911 response was fast, half a minute?
But shooter was killed while leaving building 8 minutes later.
8 minutes of unrestrained rampage.
Yeah, I get it. Unknown situation. Need more LEO to go in and confront shooter.
Typical Mormon meeting houses have central cores with chapel, overflow area, gym, stage and restrooms.
A hallway that encircles that core, each room with multiple exits to the hallway.
And a ring of classrooms and offices outside the hallway. Each with one or more doors onto the hallway.
And four exits from the hallway to the parking lots. The two exits near the chapel have foyers and ready access to the chapel. And two exits on the other end.
Though there are a wide variety of designs, this tends to be what is built nowadays.
It would take a lot of people to cover the exits and systematically search such a building.
Remember the line about when seconds matter, the police are only minutes away. The police arrived in seconds but help was still minutes away.
Once again, the only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
Gun free zones are shooter play grounds where nobody can stop them.
(And no, I don’t know of any Mormon policy about weapons at church. But policy or no, that was effectively what the shooter encountered. Just innocent defenseless victims.))
The FBI is calling this attack targeted violence.
How wide was the target – that particular church or the wider Mormon religion?
The military veteran shooter obviously went off the deep end into rage.
The shooter prepared multiple incendiary devices and a loaded automatic rifle. He intended to take multiple victims and destroy the building. This doesn’t seem to be meant to target an individual, but the whole church building and people as well.
The shooter had a son born with an inherited disease – genetic hyperinsulinism. In one photo, the shooter is shown with his son holding a duck as a trophy on a hunting trip. The shooter is described as a straight up guy who would do anything to help someone.
What would be possible motives for the shooter’s rampage to cause such a wholesale violent attack against that church?
A perceived attack on his wife or son?
A rape or molestation, grooming by a trans or LBGT in the boy’s school or in that church?
Had the shooter or his wife and son visited the church?
Fact – The State of Utah (and thus the Mormon central denomination) embraces the gender theory and transgender surgery, as well as transgenders in women’s sports and locker rooms. Utah has allowed violent transgender groups to operate fairly freely – and even travel to Cuba to train.
The Church’s position certainly led to the death of Charlie Kirk. And that position could also have made the shooter’s family vulnerable to attack of some kind by a predator or groomer.
The Church most definitely *does not* support trans surgeries or men in women’s locker rooms, etc. Furthermore, have you ever heard the term RINO? UT has plenty of them so don’t confuse what the state does with what the Church doctrines and policies are. Ever heard of separation of church and state?
The Dave Brody interview posted here and elsewhere spells it out (indirectly), I think.
This murderer apparently had a relationship with a member of that church, and my guess is that relationship failed, and the nutjob blamed the church and took it out on the church. In the interview, the guy that talked to him points out repeatedly that the murderer had some really harsh/pointed views towards the LDS church… and my speculation would be that these views were arrived at post break-up/rejection. This was a grudge, and I’m sure the left will try to spin it as anything but.
Does not sound political though.
There are details slowly leaking out.
He did court a church member in the 10 months he lived in Utah. Fifteen years ago.. Was serious enough to want to join the church and get married in church. Also, was totally wasted on Meth. Fled.
Friend says he would often criticize church as antichrist. Especially when drinking. No clue yet if antichrist stuff sought him out to save him from joining, or if he sought it out after relationship failed.
There is also talk of him changing in recent weeks. No news yet on trigger. Even charged innocent people with his truck then passed it off as a joke.
This is way wrong. Not being able to let go of failed relationship even after making a new life. Wife and kid need him. But his illness pushes them aside to take revenge on totally uninvolved people.
I am starting to think the Kirk killing may have pushed him over the edge. That he plotted to free the world of his antichrist. No actual info to support that yet. Really makes no sense, but I think he had lost it.
Still looking to hear if there was some recent interaction of him or his family with the church. Or maybe if his life was falling apart. But nothing like that has been forthcoming.
He had a loving family. Was known as a family man. Had a child that needed him in the child’s life. A wife that needed him too. A father and mother.
All pushed aside to save the world by killing innocent people.
Deranged, disgusting, and very sad.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/09/28/us/thomas-sanford-michigan-shooting-suspect
JMO ….but the IC seems to be pulling out all stops and firing most of their bullets for affect….shock and awe