The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day.
This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very influential sector of the political discourse begins a full-frontal attack against those who are pointing out how the tech community abuse H1B visas to replace American workers. In the background, of course, is the context of widespread immigration policy fraud being one of the priorities for the average Trump supporter.
The Silicon Valley team do not seem to review discussion of the H1B manipulation/fraud within the larger American economy as a problem, as long as the discussion of the visa fraud does not impact their business models. However, as soon as the H1B abuse started to be framed around Silicon Valley’s participation therein, the New Big Tech group take a nuclear war approach to defending their interests.
[SOURCE]
Having followed the immigration issue for a long time, yet specifically only having a big picture review of the H1B visa issues, it has been astounding to watch how Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks and the Silicon Valley supporters and influencers are responding to having the H1B visa fraud confronted. The self-interest in their defense is just astronomical to watch unfold.
Empowered by what can only be reasonably defined as their perceived influence over President Trump, the new-era Tech team are quite forcefully telling the MAGA base of Trump-supporting American workers that their concerns, views and perspectives are irrelevant.
It appears that most of the explosive sentiments revolve around H1B visas in the tech sector issued to Indian workers specifically. Apparently, the friendships, networks and teams attached to the sector of computer engineering carry with them an emotional component. I guess that should not be a surprise considering this is essentially a peer-to-peer wagon circling, in defense of the H1B visa problems in the tech sector.
As said before, it always appeared the MAGA alignment with Silicon Valley would not be an issue until the interests of the billionaire tech team came into conflict with the MAGA base. I did not anticipate the fracture being so fast, nor did I anticipate immigration would be the trigger. However, H1B visa issuance is apparently a key part of the Silicon Valley business model.
That said, several pragmatic aspects of the discussion are now being lost amid a very toxic shouting match that has begun. President Trump and JD Vance are, perhaps understandably, staying very quiet at the moment. However, that silence is soon to be impossible as both sides of a very divisive issue are going to eventually demand President Trump to weigh in.
I will try to cut through some of the toxic noise so that we can discuss the larger issues.
Theo Wold provides some context:
“I led the drafting of legislation in the Trump ‘45 White House to create a new legal immigration framework. I saw firsthand what happens when ANY visa reform is proposed: executives from the biggest multinationals and lobbyists from all kinds of industries are banging on the door, demanding to keep what they have.
What they have is a tangled morass of visa classes that are carve-outs, handouts, and special favors to particular industries, bought and paid for through decades of lobbying feckless members of Congress and presidential administrations. Industries lobby for the foreign workers they claim to “need,” and then they get a visa class carve-out, which they protect (and seek to expand) at all costs.
And there are enormous costs for our nation – costs that fall on the American worker with devastating consequences. The statistics bear that out: job gains go to foreign-born workers while American workers post net job losses.
I also know this firsthand because I grew up a working-class kid, watching my father (and by extension, our family) suffer from unfair foreign labor competition.
For too long, Americans have been largely unaware of the source of these problems because the policies are designed to be too complicated and are made largely invisible to public scrutiny. I’m glad the right is having an open debate about legal immigration. It is past time.
To be clear, the difference between O1Bs and H1Bs matters in this debate, for example, because these visas are intended to accomplish very different goals and are entirely different in scale, BUT both visa classes are rife with abuse. (Plenty of Reggaeton stars and anti-American athletes enter the U.S. on O-1 visas.) Essentially ALL visa classes are abused. Again, that’s because these things exist to serve special interests on one side of the labor market (and it’s not the side of the American worker).
The debate can’t be confined to a single industry – it’s about Big Tech, Big Ag, tourism and hospitality, transportation (airlines, trucking), the media & sports entertainment complex (yes, the NFL and MLB have their own special visa classes and their own special treatment by DHS and State) and many many others. They all want special visas to import cheap and convenient foreign labor. Even the roofing industry is now seeking its own special visa class. And all of these special classes get expanded over time, allowing the American worker to be flooded with foreign competitors for no reason other than labor savings for employers.
I, like many Americans, voted for a sealed border and an immigration moratorium. Americans need to retake control of our immigration system — how many are coming in, for what reasons, and for how long. One question absent from our current system: how does this individual immigrant benefit the American nation and her people? No more blanket exemptions or economic rationales. Immigration is a regime-based question, as both Hamilton and Jefferson wrote on extensively, and our system should reflect that Americans must also demand meaningful investment in assimilation and integration requirements for legal immigrants here already.’ (Source)
Within the debate, those who advocate for the H1B visa process are quick to call anyone a “racist” or “nativist” who stands against it. Within the tech industry the use of H1B is positioned as vital for their success.
As can be noted by the extreme position on the pro-H1B side of the discussion, they view this debate as a zero-sum contest. The position of Musk and the Silicon Valley tech group is that if the H1B process is stopped, American technological advancements will immediately cease to exist.
When it is pointed out that Silicon Valley discriminates against white Americans with engineering degrees and or skills, Silicon Valley shouts back the same arguments as the DEI promoters Musk claims to abhor. Musk and the tech group immediately use the Alinsky attack method (isolate, ridicule, marginalize) against anyone who speaks forcefully against their interests. The Musk allies and influencers then pile on. It is something remarkable to watch happen.
Years of Americans in various business sectors being forced to train their foreign replacements before the Americans are terminated from employment, underscore a very hardened stance against the H1B abuse. The decision by the Silicon Valley network to dismiss this problem because they want to sustain their current business operations is not going to end well unless some cooler heads immediately intercede.
Nicole Shanahan, Robert F Kennedy’s former running mate – and also a Silicon Valley network influencer, puts it this way:
“Having lived in Silicon Valley for 20+ years and founded and sold an AI company, I’ve seen firsthand how we rely on H-1B to fill grueling, unglamorous coding jobs. These jobs are essential, and we need capable people doing them. But the system needs an overhaul.
Here’s why:
To keep pace with global competitors like China and India, we need Americans ready to tackle the challenging jobs in these fields. We have them, but often our STEM grads turn their noses up at these entry-level, low-paying coding positions after investing in a costly education.
So why are immigrants from India, China, and elsewhere so eager for these jobs? It’s not because they’re glamorous or because these roles don’t exist back home. And definitely not because they offer high salaries. There’s something else driving this…
The undeniable proof that the United States is the single greatest nation on earth is that people from every corner of the globe dream of coming here—not to China or India—but America.
I take issue with some of the discourse I’ve read online today suggesting “lazy American culture” is the main driver for why we need to continue the H-1B program. Let’s be real: tech companies getting massive breaks on cheap labor at the expense of the American way of life is predatory.
Blaming our culture for why American STEM grads won’t take underpaying jobs is ridiculous and insulting.
The system we’ve constructed with H-1B visas, whether we like it or not, incentivizes people to come here and serve as essentially indentured servants for Big Tech, taking on the tough, grueling jobs that few here in America are excited to perform at the current suppressed salaries.
In return, if you’re good at your job, you’re then put on a fast track to get a Green Card, which means legal status and the chance to bring your family over through chain migration.
I’m reminded of this famous line by our second President, John Adams: “I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.”
Just because our kids have the “right” to chase artistic dreams like music and painting, doesn’t mean we should bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers to displace them in math-intensive careers. It’s a two-fold issue: both our education and immigration policies are broken. Instead of tackling these complex issues head-on, Big Tech monopolies and tech VCs are looking for the fastest way to outcompete globally and become industry giants. It’s paid off—look at the insane valuations of these companies!
We can’t entirely blame them for this approach—it’s been the industry norm for 40 years—but we can insist they seek out the tough, lasting solutions. No more temporary fixes.
I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
But, do I think removing the incentive of attaining legal status would reduce the volume of foreign applicants? Absolutely.
And, guess what? That might finally force Big Tech to look for workers right here at home (and pay them a competitive wage). Americans expect fair pay, which means these companies would have to start sharing their wealth rather than hoarding it.
Meritocracy is key to America’s greatness, but so are justice and fairness—we shouldn’t keep rewarding an industry that has curtailed free speech and American values. After Trump’s recent victory, the everyday worker feels empowered like never before. They won’t surrender that power, and frankly, it’s not right to imply they should.
There are numerous ways to improve our immigration system while safeguarding the American labor force (and I say “force” because it truly is capable, creative, and powerful).
Here are two straightforward steps to start the process:
1. Immigration policy must be designed to protect the American way of life and its workforce. Singapore’s work permit program, which they designed in the ’90s, was built from this standard and could provide good inspiration. They use a modern-day designation system to manage the influx of labor across various sectors.
⁃ Employers face levies (essentially fees that employers have to pay for each foreign worker they hire. It’s a way to manage the number of foreign workers coming in by making it more expensive to employ them, encouraging companies to also look for talent locally).
⁃ There are Dependency Ceilings, which essentially limit the number of foreign workers based on the local workforce—this is KEY.
⁃ They impose restrictions on the countries from which workers can come.
⁃ Permits are diversified across industries to ensure balance.
2. Special economic zones are amazing and can transform local tech job markets. Hiring locally is going to be critical for making sure Americans are taking key tech industry roles AND able to support their families.
If we really want to lift America to heights unseen in generations—not just talk about it, but actually do it—then we can’t continue to stick to outdated strategies that have harmed Americans. We owe it to ourselves and our communities to aim higher and do better.” (source)
As I watch this debate unfold, I find myself finally realizing why all the Silicon Valley tech people were such staunch Democrats. Their worldview does not: (1) seem to comprehend American Economic Nationalism as a priority; (2) seem to appreciate the importance of true liberty in the creation of the remarkable outcomes from American exceptionalism; and (#3) they appear to be inside a bubble of self-interest, unattached and unaffected by the economic issues that have seriously harmed the MAGA base.
In essence, the Silicon Valley network represented by Elon Musk team, does not connect in the same way to the important priorities of middle America. The technocrats are, well, Technocrats.
Watching this debate unfold is quite remarkable.
I think this is a bit overblown. Tech is important not because of their own employees, which is relatively small compared to manufacturing. It is important for the efficiency it provides the rest of the economy. Focus on Mike Rowe jobs, steel and energy. AI will replace programers and food harvesters soon enough.
Bingo.
This concept in schooling is what we need……teaching marketable skills and requiring students to be disciplined and accountable. Good job Alabama! https://www.bcbe.org/Domain/7653
These posts have brought out more new and concerned posters than I’ve seen in awhile. They are obvious if you look at their claims of authority/expertise. Their veiled condescension to the average Trump voter. Names never seen before that in many cases are different than most use to post on the internet. Implying that anyone too concerned about this is racist without calling them racist.
I haven’t been on other sites discussing this issue, but it seems there’s a big push to control/change the narrative in support of cheap labor.
At the same time others are hitting the It’s unaffordable to send them all home b.s. 😉
This isn’t about the current topic but it is so important that this needs to go viral. A survivor of the USS Liberty is telling the story how the US government LBJ, McNamara, and our military planned and executed Navy Personnel on the Liberty. Israel was the executioner. Go to rumble and Clayton Morris on Redacted News as he interviewed a survivor. According to this survivor the Biden administration and Trump before Biden were asked to get involved to let the story come out . Both administrations stayed silent in the cover up. As I have posted before there isn’t a “second coming”!
This is so simple, I can solve it in 5 minutes.
Every H1B (or O1B) visa comes with a mandatory non-expiring minimum 100% salary tariff that exclusively funds education and job training of US citizens in the respective sector of the H1B worker.
Also people that are here working under an H1B visa are ineligible to apply for citizenship. They are here purely under a work permit status that can last at most a few years. If they want to be citizens they must apply AFTER the special carveout kickback work permit expires. They can’t apply to be a citizen while their employment is screwing over a current citizen.
IF we REALLY need to import workers because Americans are just tooo stoooopid to do the work, well, then those imported workers will be temporary while their employers fund the training of Americans. Then they can go home.
Silicon valley elites need to understand and accept what America first means. It means that they need to contribute just like all the blue collar workers who have been exploited for decades by a predatory system that prioritizes everything BUT the American middle class.
If the ultra rich schreech about how much more it will cost them, then shut down all immigration completely for Trumps entire four years until these scum understand that without supporting the middle class, they will make no money.
Make America Great Again is realistically Make The Middle Class Great Again. Nobody survives without a robust middle class. They entire system implodes and we all starve.
ELON MUSK,
THE CIC ORDERS YOU TO REPORT IMMEDIATELY TO CAMP MARALAGO . YOUR MAGA ORIENTATION HAS EXPIRED,
YOU NEED TO EXPLAIN WHY IT SHOULD BE RENEWED.
For now he is persona-non-grata.
Between 2022 and 2024, Amazon laid off nearly 30,000 high-skilled workers. In the same period—though in compliance with federal law regarding when companies can request H1B visa workers—the online retail giant expanded its workforce by nearly 100,000 foreign workers.
Despite the layoffs, Amazon asked the federal government for a total allotment of 125,000 new H1B visa workers between 2022 and 2024, while they requested to retain around 90,000.
National Pulse
https://thenationalpulse.com/analysis-post/big-techs-h1b-arguments-arent-just-false-theyre-also-immoral/
In November of 2023, tech-giant Apple was sanctioned $25 million in fines and back pay due to American workers who were discriminated against in hiring—with the company essentially rigging its recruitment process in favor of foreign workers.
Similar trends are true for Google and Microsoft. Between 2022 and 2024, nearly 60,000 American workers were laid off among the three companies, while the companies increased their H1B employees by over 340 percent.
When I go to Costco in Redmond it looks like I’m in a foreign country.
I hope Trump tells those who are showing up at Mar a Lago that this can’t continue – we’ve had enough time with no one in DC caring about Americans who aren’t rich enough to bribe everyone in DC.
Musk has now labelled us “contemptible fools” and “hateful unrepentent racists.” Google it, you’ll see it.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/QSy1MbmF-qw
Barney Elon melting down and Andy 47 staying out of it.
If H1b is for finding geniuses, how does he know they will be Indian?
That’s the problem. It is NOT about finding geniuses. It is about one thing, and one thing only: depressing wages in the American labor market. Period. Full stop.
Convenient too, for the bean counters in the Bureau of Labor Statistics and Wall Street.
No more food stamps for foreign workers.
Business pays medical insurance.
No government assistance to any foreigner.
Indeed. If they really were vital to the advancement of AI, space exploration, weapons tech, or what have you, there’s NO WAY their home country would simply let them go for the song that the likes of Elon and the U.S. tech industry are willing (if grudgingly) to pay. No, I would either not let them go and, by force if need be, have them develop the tech for _our_ country. That, or demand a helluva sum for letting another country have them.
H‐1B Petition Country of Birth, Occupation for Fiscal Year 2017
Country of Birth: India · 73.8%
Occupation: Computer Related · 69%
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/data/h-1b-2007-2017-trend-tables.pdf
The report covers 2007 through 2017. India is the ~7:1 leader over second place China, every year.
Trump just Mitch McConnelled his voters by siding with Musk and Vivek on H1-B according to New York Post.
Corporations and oligarchs can displace and destroy white collars the way they displaced and destroyed blue. Literally 21% of American men age 18-54 are unemployed, either because jobs have been outsourced or foreigners subsidized by taxpayer giveaways will work for substandard wages.
How is this America First™️?
https://nypost.com/2024/12/28/us-news/donald-trump-backs-h-1b-visa-program-supported-by-elon-musk/
I think we need to give this a few more days.
The NY post is owned by Rupert Murdoch who is not a Trump supporter.
Think of all the fake news about President Trump before this.
Murdoch/Fox News showed us who they are many times over. Paul Ryan and Fox are not our friends.
They would love to see MAGA destroyed.
“I have many H1b workers on my properties?!! What?! Is he saying that he cannot find qualified caddies, cooks, and cleaning ladies in America and must bring in workers from foreign countries to fill those positions????
This is a complete 180 from comments that both he, and JD Vance, have made in the past and is a highly concerning about face from prior commitments to put AMERICANS first!!
I knew he would. Because he did this during his _first term_ but y’all chose to overlook it and said, “at least he’s not Hillary!”. But as I said then, I say again now: what’s the difference i.e. “with friends like these”?
so, do we now become ungovernable? What are our choices?
Return to the Church.
Didn’t see that coming, did you?
But that’s the only way out of this.
Musk is even worse than Hillary. She only called us deplorables.
No he is not, according to NY Post just said he agrees with Elon on H1b.
I will wait for the words from him in person.
There’s still no new statement on TruthSocial.
What I want to know when can we stop pretending?
Elon the fast driving electric car fake cia Twitter buying clown of any costume this is so retarded.
A sawed off jeet telling Americans their too stupid and a lunatic Karp overtly saying he is going to cull American gene lines from the worlds gene pool on the Claman show
What Trump is showing is is that it is the CIA. Theil Karp and Elon are the CIA not retarded protectors of the first Amendment or our constitution at all
Can we stop Pretending Elon Theil Karp Zuckerberg Gates are business people and (probably the Sawed off poo flinging jeet). are all CIA and JDVance is their Maybelline wearing Golem.
They are the nwo.
Shut it down. Every foreigner and all hyphenated citizen must go. That means every member of the CFR Atlantic council etc et al is a false god that must be destroyed. Global enslavement isn’t new.
Enough pretending. There is ONLY one God. These puppets are all just false gods. They do not create they enslave. They want your free will.
“Maybelline wearing…”
😆
What I want to know when can we stop pretending?
Hire American buy American … political BS
Exactly. Mike Benz uncovers this all in his interview with Joe Rogan.
I listened and couldn’t believe Alex Karp was given the Eisenhower award! President Eisenhower – the man who told us to be alert and knowledgeable citizens and to beware of the military industrial complex. After digging a bit, this particular Eisenhower award is given out by the Business Executives for National Security (BENS). Their mission is “applying best business practices to address the nation’s most pressing security challenges” … “Bringing business expertise to keep America safe.” Safe from what exactly??
AMERICA 1st.
American born to two American parents FIRST!
In the late 90’s my Mother was a bank executive for Chase Manhattan bank. She was telling me how she was training Indian workers for the call centers at one point which eventually replaced her entire staff. She resigned in protest. Disney did the same thing with their own call centers in the early 2000’s. This has been going on now for decades and needs to stop.
Not a fan of Disney, but this obviously wasn’t due to a shortage of tech workers:
Disney sacks workers but not before forcing them to train their foreign replacements
05 June 2015
https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/disney-sacks-workers-not-before-forcing-them-train-their-foreign-replacements-1504559
Nearly 250 Disney tech employees in Florida were laid off in late October 2014, but not before they were forced to train their replacements, a new report by the New York Times claims.
According to the 3 June report, those jobs were instead filled by immigrants on temporary visas for highly skilled technical workers, who were hired by an Indian outsourcing firm. For three months, Disney employees were asked to train the very people who took their jobs.
“I just couldn’t believe they could fly people in to sit at our desks and take over our jobs exactly,” one former American employee told the Times. The unnamed employee, who worked his last day with Disney on 30 January, added, “It was so humiliating to train somebody else to take over your job. I still can’t grasp it.”
Here’s an idea. Let’s assu&m there is a is a tech worker shortage.
You could hire H1B workers who are markedly deficient in English, but might be marginally better than Americans at coding AND are willing to work for 25% less than what the market rate would be (if they weren’t in the equation) .
OR
You could pay the extra 25% or more and invest in on the job training ( which they are probably doing anyway for the oh so talented Indains) and hire red blooded Americans.
Stop telling them they are stupid and lazy and LEAD, MOTIVATE, and OVERCOME. All so known as the AMERICAN WAY.
Lets get on with MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.
These Billionaires are starting to rub me the wrong way, including DJT.
Call center worker is not exactly a coder, but the Indians are probably paid direct deposit to their Indian bank, and given food and housing at the park or elsewhere in a dormitory fashion.
I have seen major engineering companies do the same with paki stress analysis engineers checking high temp steam pipe, and Romanian draftsmen.
I’ll bet they are not being paid OUR minimum wage.
Needless to say, if you’ve never had whiplash before, you just did. Cross it off your list.
Is the “Make America Great Again” slogan the new “Hope and Change” slogan?
Slogans mean different things to different people.
Is the intent to Make AMERICANS Great Again or just America Great Again?
The devil is always in the details.
Trump supports immigration visas backed by Musk: ‘I have many H-1B visas on my properties’By Jon Levine
Published Dec. 28, 2024,
President-elect Trump told The Post Saturday he supports immigration visas for highly skilled workers, appearing to side with Elon Musk in the roiling intra-MAGA debate on the issue.
“I’ve always liked the visas, I have always been in favor of the visas. That’s why we have them,” Trump said by phone, referring to the H-1B program, which permits companies to hire foreign workers in specialty occupations.
“I have many H-1B visas on my properties. I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program,” added Trump, who restricted access to foreign worker visas in his first administration and has been critical of the program in the past.
https://nypost.com/2024/12/28/us-news/donald-trump-backs-h-1b-visa-program-supported-by-elon-musk/?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news_alert&utm_content=20241228?&utm_source=sailthru&lctg=61feebb9045bd30ea35b7ea2&utm_term=NYP%20-%20News%20Alerts
Disappointing
Goes beyond that. It’s a betrayal of trust. I never again want to hear the snake story.
Agree.
The program is for “foreign workers in specialty occupations“.
It is time to revisit the definition of “specialty occupations”. Americans can do specialty occupations. They have been forced out and kept out of those occupations.
If they had allowed 30% of their employees to be Americans then that would prove that Americans could do the work. They needed to make it 95% foreign POC labor so that they could claim “See? Only POC foreigners want the jobs.”
“Specialty” is now a joke. H2B is even funnier.
So PDJT thinks he’s hiring groundskeepers and maids, etc., for ‘jobs Americans couldn’t do’? Really?
We elected him for his last allowed term as President. Now we will see what he really believes. Maybe much to our dismay.
DEI is a big factor in the blocking of American citizens from many jobs.
Revolver News article from today:
https://revolver.news/2024/12/purple-haired-hr-shrews-are-front-line-soldiers-in-the-maga-elon-tech-war/
I told you so.
And as we America First MAGA voters stand their in our hat looking confused, continuing to trust the guy we trusted, 47 and Elon confer. Six two and even they’re selling you [us] out, Sonny ….
President Trump searched far and wide and could find NO Americans who could do those jobs. /sarc off
If Trump caters to Musk’s meltdown over the visas , then MAGA voters have already cast their last vote getting Trump elected.
Speak for yourself.
That’s a gut punch.
Someone should send him the tweet he wrote in 2016.
He has not always been for it.
DJT 03/04/2016 –
file:///C:/Users/lovin/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.jpg
Nailed It
It appears that the conservative tendency to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory isn’t limited to politicians. Zero-sum game thinking is what the left does. There is room for compromise instead of getting our hackles up every time someone doesn’t absolutely fall in line. Get a grip.
We are not peasants who have to quietly listen while smug, foreign billionaires call us “retarded” and tell us Americans are too stupid to be employable. We are allowed to defend ourselves and our Country.
No, it’s not snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, it’s a case of irrational exuberance meeting reality, formerly thinking for some reason that “now that Trump is elected” everything that’s been an issue for many decades will no longer exist like this topic and many others including the TRILLIONS that are at stake to the Deep State/Blob/Five Eyes forces which are still there just like they were for 2016-2020.
I don’t need to get a grip. I have a grasp, a thorough grasp of the issue.
I don’t think the word “compromise’ is in Musk’s vocabulary.
So let see, we need millions of low skilled immigrants to pick our strawberries and clean toilets they said for years, then they were saying we need to move all manufacturing to communist China and prop them up, so we have a better future and cheaper product and it will take the communist down,(which never happened) and thus destroying middle class, now we need high skilled people to replace Americans , it is essential!!!! And it just happens that most of them are from India.
And in very short future they will replace rest with AI.
Very concise and accurate summary in my opinion.
As we truckers used to tell people saying stupid things on the CB radio…. “Shut up, stupid….”.
Musk and Va Fake should be 10-7, in trucker speak…
Who, Treepers or Elon.
He could have presented his case like a reasonable person, but NO.
JULY 17 2024
Very curious to see where JD Vance lands on this issue – yes, he is very good friends with Vivek, and his wife’s family came from India, before she was born, I believe…BUT, JD’s family, and entire community, has DIRECTLY been impacted by the loss of jobs to foreign companies! The insults of Americans having a “culture” of mediocrity that Vivek launched were, in my opinion, squarely directed at families just like the one from which Vance came! Will blood be thicker than water or will he come down on the side that has made him rich?
He will be loyal to the race that is of his kids. Period. No other choice for him.
His kids are AMERICAN by birth and half “Appalachian” by ancestry (Scots-Irish, same as mine).
I think the bigger question should be addressed to Usha Vance…does she agree with Vivek that one’s loyalty should be to the country from where your family originated or does she agree with what JD (and Donald Trump, up until a minute ago) have repeatedly said in the past, which is that the number one priority of the government of the United States should be to the safety and success of HER citizens above the citizens of ANY other country in the world!!
My family is of Irish ancestry but has fought FOR America in every major military conflict since the War for Independence. Yes, my family came from Ireland, and I still have family there, and love to visit my ancestral home…but, I am an AMERICAN!! My husband’s father fought against the Nazis for his country during WWII, but then came here in the late 1950s and PROUDLY became an AMERICAN.
It seems like this conflict boils down to one simple question – do your loyalties lie with the CITIZENS of America, regardless of any real or perceived benefit to yourself, or with the citizens of the “world” who can be exploited in order to make YOUR life better? Vivek and Elon have clearly given their answer and sadly, it seems like DJT is giving a variation of the same answer…
Well, is Elon going to win against Trump? Did Silicon Group already win against Trump by Trump surrounding himself with the Silicon Group?
Elon sure pulling the carpet out from under MAGA! WOW. Elon did this “move” before 2025, and he didn’t wait. Why? Did Trump say “NO” to Elon? And Elon hit first with this MOVE? Maybe Elon really hates Trump/MAGA and just couldn’t stand being around him anymore! Because Elon is really making this a big issue.
Musk is a BS artist as I have posted evidence of elsewhere in this thread and is playing you all for suckers.
Department of Government Efficiency – D.O.G.E.
An image posted by Elon Musk after President-elect Donald Trump announced he will lead a new Department of Government Efficiency—or “DOGE.”
Dogecoin logo:
Dogecoin Pumps Following Elon Musk ‘D.O.G.E.’ Tweet
Dogecoin is the biggest gainer in the top 40 coins this week, and the reason appears to be a familiar one: Elon Musk tweets.
Oct 16, 2024
https://decrypt.co/286595/dogecoin-pumps-elon-musk-tweet
Dogecoin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogecoin
Dogecoin.com promotes the currency as the “fun and friendly Internet currency”, referencing its origins as a “joke”. Software engineers Markus and Palmer launched the satirical cryptocurrency as a way to make fun of Bitcoin and the many other cryptocurrencies boasting grand plans to take over the world. With the help of Reddit, the site became an instant hit. Within two weeks, Dogecoin had established a dedicated blog and forum, and its market value reached $8 million, once jumping to become the seventh largest electronic currency in the world.
On May 9, 2021, SpaceX announced a rideshare mission to the Moon completely funded by Dogecoin, thus becoming the first space mission funded by a cryptocurrency. Elon Musk confirmed this news via Twitter…Dogecoin hit a new high price of $0.08 following Twitter encouragement from Musk.
On May 4, 2021, the value of Dogecoin first surpassed the symbolic hurdle of $0.50.
In April 2023, a Dogecoin increase was attributed to Elon Musk temporarily changing the logo on the Twitter app to a Doge logo. In June 2023, Musk was accused of insider trading by investors based on a series of stunts including the change of logo.
On August 29, 2024, Elon Musk and his electric vehicle company Tesla won the dismissal of a federal lawsuit accusing them of defrauding investors by hyping the cryptocurrency dogecoin and conducting insider trading, causing billions of dollars of losses.
On the pump and dump crypto scam:
Money doesn’t go into or out of Bitcoin. It is a zero sum Ponzi scheme. Its ‘price’ is just a measure of how much wealth one wants to transfer to another person already playing in the game. When no one wants to play anymore its price will be zero and you can’t hang it on your wall, or feed your dog with it, or put it in a vase. It is the largest most extraordinary game of financial chicken the world has ever seen. The idea that there always will be a price greater than zero because it somehow has some intrinsic value is just wrong. So when the price of Bitcoin goes to zero there will be no tidal wave of money or anything else coming out. It will just be a recognition that the wealth transfer is over and the folks holding the bag have nothing and it will not affect those already out of the game in the least. They will have already won.
Of course all the people playing the game or trying to be compensated for facilitating the game will create any sort of mechanism or hype to promote the game. But that misses the point. The fundamental transaction is a transfer of wealth from someone not in the game to someone that is. All that transaction does is transfer some amount of real wealth from a non-player to a player so that the non-player is now a player and the previous player is out of the game. How much wealth was transferred to play is the price.
Karl Denninger says digital currencies are all a scam
19 Jun 2017
https://cryptorum.com/t/karl-denninger-says-digital-currencies-are-all-a-scam.217/
FAR too slow for widespread use:
Transactions Speeds: How Do Cryptocurrencies Stack Up To Visa or PayPal?
https://howmuch.net/articles/crypto-transaction-speeds-compared
NOT anonymous:
Is Cryptocurrency Anonymous? The Myth of Anonymity Debunked
https://www.ulam.io/blog/is-cryptocurrency-anonymous
How to get rich: start your own cryptocurrency, mine a whole bunch of them while the mining is easy early on, then hope idiots buy them and they become popular, driving up the price just like tulip bulbs during the Tulip Mania. That’s the reason for this:
Crypto: The basics
https://www.fca.org.uk/investsmart/crypto-basics
As of early 2023, there were over 20,000 cryptos, many of which are no longer traded, and will never grow a significant market capitalisation (cap), a term used to measure the size of a certain crypto and its popularity, because they don’t have a unique selling point. Of the 20,000+, there’s probably a few you’ve heard of.
Scientific and Engineering Experts Tell Congress that Both Crypto and Blockchain Were a Sham from the Beginning – 17 Jun 2022
https://wallstreetonparade.com/2022/06/as-the-speeding-crypto-train-crashes-scientific-and-engineering-experts-tell-congress-that-both-crypto-and-blockchain-were-a-sham-from-the-beginning/
“We strongly disagree with the narrative—peddled by those with a financial stake in the crypto-asset industry—that these technologies represent a positive financial innovation and are in any way suited to solving the financial problems facing ordinary Americans…
“As software engineers and technologists with deep expertise in our fields, we dispute the claims made in recent years about the novelty and potential of blockchain technology. Blockchain technology cannot, and will not, have transaction reversal mechanisms because they are antithetical to its base design. Similarly, most public blockchain-based financial products are a disaster for financial privacy; the exceptions are a handful of emerging privacy-focused blockchain finance alternatives, and these are a gift to money-launderers. Financial technologies that serve the public must always have mechanisms for fraud mitigation and allow a human-in-the-loop to reverse transactions; blockchain permits neither.
“By its very design, blockchain technology, specifically so-called ‘public blockchains’, are poorly suited for just about every purpose currently touted as a present or potential source of public benefit. From its inception, this technology has been a solution in search of a problem and has now latched onto concepts such as financial inclusion and data transparency to justify its existence, despite far better solutions already in use. After more than thirteen years of development, it has severe limitations and design flaws that preclude almost all applications that deal with public customer data and regulated financial transactions and are not an improvement on existing non-blockchain solutions.”
The whales pumping and dumping:
Bitcoin Wasn’t as Decentralized or Anonymous as Crypto Bros Told You
Study Finds Just 64 bitcoin owners were responsible for the vast majority of mining in the cryptocurrency’s early days [back when it was easy to mine them].
8 Jun 2022
https://gizmodo.com/bitcoin-cryptocurrency-centralized-not-anonymous-study-1849029656
——–
Finally, about the dream of bypassing government fiat currencies and digital currencies, governments worldwide have coercive controls over businesses within their countries via various means. If cryptocurrencies ever become a threat to the oligarchies preferred financial system, highly unlikely considering just the transaction time problem with blockchains, they will simply declare them “illegal tender.”
For now, their current benefits are to whale investors who pump and dump them, to major trading houses charging brokerage fees to speculators gambling with them and, their primary utility, use in illegal activities like ransomware operations charging as much as tens of millions of dollars for a single ransom or as targets for theft by nations like North Korea.
FBI links North Korean hackers to $308 million crypto heist – December 24, 2024
Elon and Vivek had three days to sell the H1B program as, “Americans have been devastated by failed schools, failed government policies, off-shoring, and DEI. MAGAnomics will help Americans catch up, but we need critical jobs filled right now.”
What we got instead was three days of being called “retarded” and told that Americans are too lazy and stupid to be employable.
Their tone is completely unacceptable. This level of insult is on par with Hillary’s “deplorables.” They don’t even try to understand the amount of pain the average American has suffered for the past 20 years, and they certainly don’t care. But I suppose to be that’s expected from billionaires who straight up tell us that they see America as their own personal “sports team” rather than a homeland.
I’m so disgusted. I’m so sick of being talked down to by smug, foreigners and stupidly thought we had moved past that with Trump’s victory. Now it hurts even more coming from “our side” rather than the Democrats.
I’d say 40 years, but who’s counting…
1,000 upvotes!
Did someone sneak some truth serum into their Red Bull?
Hallelujah to that! Thanks for saying it so well!
I work for environmental scientists based in Florida and I happen to know that some of the older ones have complained about the quality of work done by the recently graduated.
Our schools are failing us. I’ve seen teachers in man on the street interviews who didn’t know obvious facts. This is not only ridiculous but also dangerous.
My husband works with Indian engineers. They suck.
Average IQ in India is 77 vs 97 in the U.S. No matter the flaws in our system and people, we can correct and overcome those i.e. improve. But you truly cannot fix stupid. By the way…
If Musk is so all about the “excellence” of foreign workers, why not try Japan, Germany, Poland, Ukraine…?
I know why: because Russia doesn’t like them, but Russia does like India. Food for thought…
Older people always complain about the “whipper snappers”. That’s nothing new.
I have been here at The Treehouse for 10 years with the exact same name. If ever an issue could guarantee a person an avalanche of “Likes”, it would be commenting about US schools doing a wholly inadequate job of teaching the “3 Rs”.
We talk endlessly of how students need calculators instead of being able to cypher on paper.
We constantly remind each other with anecdotes of entire school districts where not ONE student can pass a State proficiency exam in math.
We have story after story where criminal students disrupt classrooms on a daily basis and even teachers that care, can’t teach.
How many times have people here complained about HS graduates arriving at their freshman year of college only to spend an entire first year there learning what they should have learned in HS?
Have we all forgotten the endless tales of today’s young people not being able to count change or read and write cursive?
It has become a theme here of just how totally unprepared college graduates are and how they wasted all that money and time learning nonsense courses in their nonsense majors.
So far I haven’t even brought up bad or non existent parenting. The absence of religion in homes influencing ethics and morals that are exemplified in the working world.
I work in construction. I have seen with my own eyes the difference between your typical 1970s families wherein HS students and college students all had summer jobs till recently where almost none do.
Myself and my fellow construction workers have endless problems finding apprentices who can be trusted to stay off their cell phones and who won’t show up high on pot. I gave up. If I get involved on a big job I routinely partner with other sub contractors.
BUT NOW ??? America’s young people are the best employees one can hope for?
Some are and most are not.
I will lay this problem at President Trump’s feet and I know he will do the right thing.
A year ago when it was looking iffy for President Trump’s re-election I would have thought to be a year in the future with President Trump having won that election and encountering this particular problem that I had died and went to heaven.
So I dedicate this song to all the Treepers who are turning their backs on President Trump:
Most of us will acknowledge that the American workforce has problems.
But,
H1b workers should not be hired to lower wages for Americans as appears to be the case now. To me this is the main issue.
If they are truly superior to American workers wouldn’t they be paid higher than the market rather than lower.
The language barrier is a real isssue for many of these workers. In the real world this would lower there economic value.
Trust President Trump should be the takeaway from my post !
Elon Musk! You want to know what you are?
You don’t. I do. Everyone does.
You are the son of a thousand fathers, all bastards like you!
–Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
.
Not good; not bad; just ugly . . .
I once consulted for American Megatrends, in suburban Atlanta. It served as a beachhead for Indian computer programmers and engineers, complete with rotating staff from India on temporary visas. While I was there, India set off an atomic bomb test, and US halted visas temporarily and the place was in a panic.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Megatrends
If Musk and the silicone valley interests were smart they would make the argument that we need high tech workers and sacrifice the fruit-pickers, home demo guys, and also figure out how to stop chain migration. The problem is that being a minority they have to all stick together so they are not willing to compromise. It is understood that once their coalition is fragmented, the rump will be picked apart. They are held together by race and money so there will be a fight but done properly MAGA can mortally wound their alliance.
So the question to ask Musk and DOGE is what are they willing to give up? Will they support E-Verify, a guest worker plan, and cut unskilled and limit skilled immigration to 200,000 people per year which is what is needed to maintain the population? If not, he is the one who needs to be told to fu** off.
On a related point, we have lost control of our elections. Without being able to secure voters identity we cannot do that. Once we do that however, we can also secure who is actually working and for whom. That would open up the door to guest workers who would actually be guests and not back door migration. Having traveled in countries where they take ID seriously, it changes the whole ball game. The cop asked you for your Passport and checks your visa and if it is not they don’t hand it back. Tell them they will get their money and passport back on the plane.
Beautiful!
I mean, a beautiful find!
This shows so well what AMERICANS are up against . . .
meanwhile, “how do we deal with homelessness”?
The only coherent message developed from any of the government agencies and volunteer coalitions is that “we need to refer to them as unhoused, not homeless” . . . they don’t have any answers as to why the job market is increasingly difficult while rents go up, up, up to house multiple people in dwellings that used to be homes for single people and/or young couples saving up to buy a house . . . the rents are not in line with the incomes . . .
meanwhile, Americans are the ones being “carved out” of America’s future!
Companies who lay off large numbers of employees should be excluded from participating in the H1B Visa Program. If you can’t hire local or American there is no need for you to hire foreign workers unless that company primarily does business in that country. AMERICAN JOBS FOR AMERICANS!
It all comes back to checks and balances required due to humans basic characteristics of greed and corruption. No good deed goes unpunished. The H1B program isn’t a bad idea to promote the need for obtaining foreign workers if the US doesn’t have native born numbers. However it’s abused and politicians participate in the abuse through greased palms. I work at the leading Broadcast Video Transcoding companies our transcoding and broadcast video workflow products are everywhere and all engineered with zero H1B visas.
Well I’m done, not sure where to go from here
https://nypost.com/2024/12/28/us-news/donald-trump-backs-h-1b-visa-program-supported-by-elon-musk/
Okay. Bye.
To red-pill a liberal, he has to be mugged.
To crush-pill a conservative, he has to be betrayed.
A lot of people are getting crush-pilled and they are not going to be swallowing anything.
I’m thinking the same thing. If Trump said he’s always been for h1b visas he’s lying. So I guess he’s not who we thought he was and the bad guys win again.
Trump has never been against those visas. He’s been strongly against the ABUSE of those visas. My guess is that he told the NYP as much and that part of the interview wasn’t used. Conflating the mere existence of the visas and their abuse is disingenuous.
I really can’t believe what’s going on here and hope, as is generally the case with social media, there appears to be a more amplified reaction than what exists in reality. H1b is pretty far down on the list of serious problems that need fixing in my opinion.
That is not what his tweet said in 2016. And I am not going to twist myself into a pretzel trying to let him off the hook. It is what it fkng is. He said what he fkng said.
That is false. This is exactly what he said in 2016. No need to twist yourself into a pretzel. Truth matters.
“I’m changing. I’m changing. We need highly-skilled people in this country. If we can’t do it, we will get them in. And we do need in Silicon Valley, we absolutely have to have. So we do need highly-skilled,” Trump said. “One of the biggest problems we have people will go to the best colleges, they’ll go to Harvard, they’ll go to Stanford, to Wharton, as soon as they are finished they get shoved out. They want to stay in this country. They want to stay here desperately. They are not able to stay here. For that purpose, we absolutely have to be able to keep the brain power in this country.”
Asked if that represented a change from the position expressed on his website, which states that “[t]oo many visas, like the H-1B, have no such requirement” to hire American workers first, Trump said it was. “I’m changing it, and I’m softening the position, because we have to have talented people in this country,” Trump said.
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/statement-donald-j-trump-position-visas
I hope you are correct, but the President Trump needs of clarify this and he needs to reign in the Doge boys quickly.
Saddened, but not honestly surprised, by this story – will be curious to see how Sundance, Bannon, and others respond to these comments. Sure seems like an about face from comments that DJT has made in the past!
and what power do they have Bannon was fired by trump, yes?
Bannon has the posse.
Perhaps the term highly skilled should be defined in terms of wages.
What would one generally pay a highly skilled person?
Then an employer request for an H1B that doesn’t meet the minimum wage criteria it is moot. That should sort out a lot of the fakes and fakery.
And that is wages paid to a legitimate person, not a company or organization aka headhunters.
Headhunters aka Body Chop Shops.
There’s an awful lot of vitriolic and subjective chatter on this issue, and it reeks of the same dysfunctional all-or-nothing kind of stuff that helped kill the TEA Party.
The piece linked below offers a more objective view of things without the ugly personal attacks I’m seeing all over the webs today, and gives me hope that cooler heads will prevail, because I believe it’s a grievous and short-sighted mistake to declare Elon Musk (and Vivek Ramaswamy) the enemy.
If it weren’t for Starlink, for example, I and many others would not have internet access in our homes after being dumped and abandoned by our previous carriers.
And that’s just one example of why the tar and feathers need to be replaced by a more respectful discussion.
I hope CTH readers will read and consider.
https://discern.tv/no-h-1b-visas-why-america-should-focus-on-o-1-visas-for-talent/
They need to apologize for their hideous and demeaning comments. Otherwise, just no
I would not accept their apology. It’s simply too late and too bad about Trump.
Tell that to Elon and Vivek because they’re the ones spreading the most vitriol. Americans are not their personal peasants who have to quietly and sit and listen while the smug billionaire calls us “retarded” for daring to protest our own systemic discrimination. We are allowed to defend ourselves.
He didn’t call anybody retarded. He liked a post that satirically described the dispute and used that word.
The Uniparty killed The Tea Party. But they didn’t kill us, much as they might wish that.
I’ll have respect for the tech snakes when they speak out against the Surveillance State they created with govt cash filling their pockets.
I’ll respect them when they speak out against the Gestapo that used their Surveillance State creations to hunt and imprison many hundreds of J6 protesters. I’d say those lives are more important than your internet and Netflix connection, hmmmmm?
I don’t see that article as changing anything. We never said that we have any objection to bringing brilliant foreigners into the country, and the other side to this is behaving as if we did, which is tantamount to calling us ignorant, and I don’t need to read Charlie Kirk or anybody to tell me what I should be focusing on.
I didn’t declare anybody the enemy, and I’m not the least bit short-sighted.
Elon has been telling lies.
Yeay, Clarion – a 1,000 virtual likes!
Donald Trump: I will unite the country.
Elon Musk: F U in the face! I will disunite your own base even before you take office!!!
H-1B is just the tip of the mess:
H-1B Uproar Obscures Vast Workforce of Other White-Collar Migrants
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2024/12/28/h-1b-uproar-obscures-vast-workforce-other-white-collar-migrants/
“The heated debate over H-1B visa workers obscures the far greater inflows of other foreign workers into the white-collar jobs needed by American college graduates.
The federal government issues about 130,000 new H-1B visas each year — plus another 650,000 visas or work permits to other white-collar migrants each year.
Many of these non-immigrant workers are allowed to stay for five, six, or seven years. The multi-year visas create a resident population of at least 1.5 million white-collar workers.
That growing population is almost twenty times larger than the H-1B program’s inflow of 85,000 new foreign workers every year that the media is focusing on.
“For decades, this has been out of control,” said Kevin Lynn, the founder of U.S. Tech Workers, which campaigns against the visa worker programs.
The huge giveaway annually delivers roughly two foreign workers for every American who graduates from a four-year college with a skilled degree in science, software, computers, business, healthcare, or engineering.”
More…
Remember this???
“A former Disney (NYSE:DIS) employee is speaking out about U.S. companies hiring foreign workers with H1-B visas, at lower wages, to replace U.S. workers.
“The foreign workers that replaced the hundreds of us here in Orlando, and Anaheim, were just flown in weeks before,” former Disney IT employee Leo Perrero told the FOX Business Network’s Stuart Varney.
Perrero then discussed the difference in wages paid to the foreign replacements.
“They came in on a visa called the H1-B visa, I don’t know exactly what they pay, however the bulk of these people that applied for this visa are at the very lowest pay scale out of the four. They all claim to come in on this visa because they are better than Americans, yet they come in on the lowest pay scales.””
https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/disney-workers-forced-to-train-their-foreign-replacements
HB-5 visa’s replace american owned businesses here in America
and they too need to go.
These visa’s need to be included in the public conversation, I am betting most people don’t even know about them.
Cernovich
@Cernovich
In some ways it’s my job to know about H-1B abuses, and even so, the database shocked me. I knew of offshoring and abuses as by Disney. Had no idea how many companies completely abused it. No way was this getting up to Elon’s pay grade. It didn’t even hit mine.
https://x.com/Cernovich/status/1872898586100547825
Wish I had a link but this morning I read an X post by Musk agreeing that hb1 fraud needs cleaned up and only the top .01% are brought in. The internal MAGA division aounds like a nothingburger, probably created by leftist weenies.
Leftist weenies can’t be blamed for this mess.
The “division” is coming entirely from the smug foreigners who spent their Christmas vacation calling Americans “retarded” and unemployable. This is 100% on Elon and Vivek.
And on Trump if he doesn’t repudiate this and damn soon.
Elon can fk himself in the face
Meet Steve Davis, Musk’s right-hand guy responsible for profits and cost-cutting at his companies since 2003. How can Musk claim foreign workers are needed when he employs this guy as a right-hand man?
LA Times: https://archive.is/cl3wi
I have watched the All In Pod almost weekly for two years now and have deep respect for David Sacks.
His besties loved to mock and heckle him for his Conservative views and open support for President Trump and his MAGA policies.
Chamath loves to brag about the cost of his sweaters on the pod.
As the most openly sexually immoral member of the show, he oozes decadence with his verbal postures and $4,000.00 sweater name dropping of various fashion icons.
Jasons name showed up on the Epstein Island flight list, so it is only a matter of time before that genie is fully out of the bottle.
I anticipate a full throated smackdown from President Trump as he gives all of the billionaire tech bros a well deserved spanking.
I personally will not participate on X until every who was censored over the past few days has EVERYTHING restored.
Elon and Vivek owe the American People an apology.
DOGE should be handed over exclusively to Ron and Rand Paul.
Cheers!
Jenny Hatch
DOGE should be handed over exclusively to Ron and Rand Paul.
Vote for that!
Well, big media sure knows how to yank our chain and cause division.
We are angry over WORKING, vetted, contributing, people with properly issued and sponsored visas… all while millions upon millions of ILLEGALS camp on our welfare and have 95 kids and brothers, uncles, cousins, etc… flood in all procreating anchor babies. All those being LAWBREAKERS and millions upon millions of mentally unhinged criminals.
And we are fighting over software coders? I’ll take one software coder and trade you 100,000 mentally ill criminal lunatics who cross the Darian gap with drug and human trafficking mules.
I’m not saying visas don’t need reform… I believe American companies should be deeply penalized for offshoring jobs away from American citizens… but we are focusing on the wrong thing.
Yes, Elon reacted inappropriately… because he took it personally. He himself being a foreign born who chose America as his home country. Knowing what I do of his past with his Dad in South Africa… he has been through horrible tragedy and overcome a lot to get where he is.
Musk is defending a foreigners right to the American dream… and I for one… have no problems with foreigners as long as they emigrate properly and have no allegiences to any country other than the United States of America.
I don’t want Musk to leave. I want his brilliant mind working for us and for the good of the American public. I’m proud of his accomplishments… but whoever is leading us down a path of hate and racism and divisiveness… should be shot.
The devil likes to poke at sore spots and latent racism coupled with internal fear of replacement theory… the devil’s struck a cord and is causing anmity. I challenge you to see the devil for what he is doing and cast it out!
Elon needs to restore Loomers right to free speech. It’s the American Constitutional thing to do.
And we need to deport every single one of the criminals… including some of the so called citizenry with split loyalty.
To God be the Glory
Nope, the corporate welfare, corruption and carvouts have to go.
And Musk is the definition of corporate welfare.
It’s not our greatest problem – it is a SYMPTOM of the root problem. Corporate corruption is certainly a problem though, but corruption must be cut out at its root. And that root is political corruption and demonic worship nullifying the worth of a human body and mind and violating our laws and our Constitutional rights.
And for the record… I was alarmed early and voiced openly my concern over the Harmeet Dhillons of the world who closed the RNC convention night one with a Hindi prayer. We are a CHRISTIAN nation… full stop. These people reveal themselves as formerly DemonRATS who jump to the RepubliCON side when it is politically advantageous…. but they are one and the same evil.
Let’s stop human trafficking, legal and illegal drug trafficking, indoctrination and dumbing down of our youth, mental brainwashing, isolation of people from the worship of God… and start as a community holding people accountable to the rule of law… and let’s see how much changes?
Let’s get to the root – and all else falls into place. Focus.
The corporate grifters pay cash to the Uniparty for the welfare, corruption and carvouts. It IS the problem.
End illegal immigration.Deport ALL illegals and the legal citizens who broke American laws to sponsor the invasion. Take their ill-gained wealth, strip them of their citizenship, and deport them all to find solace under another flag that accepts them.Do NOT ship illegals back to their origin – drop them immediately over the closest border and let them find their own way home. We will not pay to return them to their country of origin. They took the risk to break the law to get here… find their own way home.No more anchor babies. If a parent breaks the law, the child gets expelled with the parent.If it is an unaccompanied child, then the child is returned to the closest consulate of his or her origin.No more dual citizenship.No more foreign nationals owning American soil. Same as China – if they want to build a factory here and employ our labor – fine…. but the land is American soil and can be leased to the company with a clause to revoke at any given time with cause of illegitimate business handling or treasonous behavior disadvantageous to the American public.All people registered for election to public office must declare their political party – right down to school boards and dog catchers.American companies can hire foreign employees with appropriate visas if and only if they are participating in an American skills-based trade school sponsoring the growth and education of American civilians for the same jobs. If they can show cause that there is a citizenry deficit to fill the labor – then properly visa’d foreigners may hold the position – but only for a limited time and only at the same dollar rate that an American holding the job would earn. At the end of the Visa term, the person must be thoroughly vetted again and must sign a decree of loyalty to the American people and government that no terms of employment will be permitted to those who actively work against America-first policies. If you’re a foreigner here, then you support our country, our government. Visa’d employees who have worked multi-year agreements can earn an accelerated path to citizenship… but only for themselves, their spouses, and children… but no one else. They must first serve our country a minimum of 10 years as a credentialed Visa’d vetted employee of good standing sponsored by their employer. If they choose to become a citizen here, they forfeit citizenship with their native country and sign an oath to acclimate to American culture and uphold our laws and our nation’s safety.No more corporate funding of political campaigns. The only funding for a political candidate is through individual independent voters. People run companies and they can practice their politics within them through their corporate culture, but no corporation should be able to influence an election.A person who owns property in more than one state – gets a vote in each state – because the laws and politics of each state directly affects that person’s rights to property, life, and liberty.
I did not write this in a long, run on paragraph. It had bullet points and then edited when the bullet points disappeared on their own – and I numbered the points. But, okay… “edit” as you wish! Ridiculous.
Wasn’t it Musk who pulled out the racism card?
Cut off the head..Then the root dies…
Yes, I pray it so, Diceanna, and I hope we can hold it together long enough to cut the heads off and kill the roots of this disgusting lawlessness and devil worship. They will keep us “busy” in the weeds of details, while they rob the kitchen of the silverware through the back door.
One’s eyes and ears do not lie to one’s mind. Hang around any Asian Indian or live among them long enough and they show you who they are. Born abroad or here, their allegiance is totally to India, it’s people and ancient traditions. Working or living in the U.S. does not matter in the long run. They will dress like Indians, eat like Indians. talk in their native dialects and hang Indian flags in their windows or on their porches. They will switch sales tags off of produce and other items in supermarkets then claim at the register they were marked for sale when the item was not. I’ve seen it and witnessed the behavior. They are perhaps the most arrogant people on earth and illustrate it with the way they talk to you and brag on themselves. They still believe in the caste system and will lie to your face they do not. Multiple family members live in their homes and they thumb their noses at any residential rules. They are beneath doing any manual labor, even cutting their own lawn, planting a garden or trimming a bush. In their mind, it is beneath them. They lie on resumes and about their educational achievements. They are Indian all day, everyday and have no intention of acting like an appreciative American.
Trump is okay with corporate carveout as part of deal making. Remember he gave in to ethanol subsidies to win corn states? Trump makes deals, often we grumble at what we give up but we don’t give it up for free, Trump gets something big.
Just be ready when there’s a compromise, Trump makes deals. The more “they” (corporations/ Silicon valley…) scream and cry for something, they more they compromise for it…
I can do both, and no one is going to scold me out of it.
Do you think I’m scolding you, Clarion? What “you can do both” are you referring to?
Do you disagree with anything I’ve written? Or do you not see that this is a ploy to fracture and isolate MAGA and its supporters – or at worst to call us “racists” and “deplorables” and whatever flavor-of-the-week “losers” they’ve tagged onto us?
I’ve been called far worse and frankly… I hit back pretty hard, too. I’m just grateful for the grace and mercy of God to recognize the culprits and not find my standing in others’ idle accusations without merit.
Immigration is killing this nation. Close the borders to *all* immigration until we have our nation back in peace and tranquility.
There is no moral requirement we allow immigrants. There is one that we defend our nation that is being internally subverted and betrayed at her institutional roots.
Yes… ILLEGAL immigration is deeply harming our nation and making it ripe for a Machiavellian style coup through invasion. What’s killing this nation is the worship of the devil and the lack of respect for life and liberty under our Constitutional values. It is the total depravity of mind and the organized crime syndicate selling us all up the river, because they see us as numbers to meet their ends and not as We The People who give them the power of representation.
All immigration is killing america. Not just illegal. You god has zero to do with immigration.
zero? are you sure about that, doyoucare? God Has Everything to do with everything and everybody… including you. Like it or not. Take your arguments up with Him.
Whatever.
We had this fight with McConnell and the Chamber of commerce now you don’t care because open borders.
Good for you.
Billie – you’re entirely wrong, but as you say “whatever”.
JWoo, I disagree with you.
Just as President Trump has battled for American businesses not to be disadvantaged by our trade policies, it is reasonable to expect him to advocate that American citizens not be disadvantaged by our H1B policy.
Since you brought God into it, you might ask yourself if your accusation of “latent racism” and “hate” might be poking against the commandment not to bear false witness.
I do not hate foreign corporations, and I do not hate people born in other countries. But I certainly support policies in this country that favor our own companies and our own citizens — as do people in other countries for their own businesses and their own citizens.
Old Dog,
Did I imply YOU were a racist? No, no I didn’t. I am saying that politicians use racism to race bait – and that’s what they are doing here.
I am calling for a return to the LEGAL METHOD that was in place. I don’t “bear false witness”… I speak based upon my experiences and observations… and I am 100% entitled to under rights of FREE SPEECH.
I strongly recommend reading Sundance’s OP before further commenting. If you had read it, you’ll this issue goes far beyond “fighting over software coders.” This is about the completely unacceptable tone Elon and Vivek are using towards Americans concerned about losing jobs (I guess you missed the big screenshot of Elon angrily cursing in all caps). This is about Silicon Valley exploiting those same “software coders” and creating a perpetual indentured servant class. This is about multi-national companies maliciously exploiting America’s immigration visa without caring about the deleterious consequences to the American worker. Sundance put a lot of work into that post, and you coming in here without even reading it while hysterically running your mouth off saying people need to be “shot” for being “divisive” is both disrespectful to him and the rest of the CTH community.
I didn’t miss a thing, Compulsive Gardener. I just don’t throw the baby out with the bath water when someone calls me a name!
I’ve seen these con artists and how they work. They are purposefully dividing us.
I read Sundance’s full post and I don’t feel I wrote anything that disrespected Sundance or his work… but maybe you are not okay with my right to FREE SPEECH.
I appreciate you taking the time to make me the villain – I guess everyone needs one. Have you ever thought about who is left to fight – when everyone leaves the playground?
You literally said that people who are “divisive” should be “shot.” That is the most unhinged take in this entire debate so far. I didn’t “make you the villain.” You made yourself the villain with that violent rhetoric.
They do chain migration. So coding doesn’t seem like a big deal, but enough of the doing chain migration messes america up. Learn the whole issue. Not just some job that you didn’t need.
I addressed “chain migration”. But thanks for the directive to “learn the whole issue” – I have worked for two major global national companies and worked alongside visa’d employees. I couldn’t possibly know what I am talking about / sarc.
“Musk is defending a foreigners right to the American dream…”
Foreigners have ZERO “RIGHT” to the American dream!
AMERICANS have the “right” to the American dream, P.E.R.I.O.D.
Where did your grandparents come from? I’m second generation American with an extended family who has done more for humanity than one can count here. (World renowned venomoligist and another who was a leading researcher in artificial organ transplants with a prestigious award named after him… so our family is no slouches!) When my grandfather emigrated LEGALLY, he invested heart in soul in America… who he loved until his death… and his children and legacy honors AMERICA. We serve our country and its people… so thank God they decided to come over on the boat. They saved a lot of lives.
“Where did your grandparents come from? ”
America.
Your family had NO “right” to come to America.
America ALLOWED entry of your family into our nation.
From your comment, it sounds like your family did the right thing and bettered themselves….. AND America (which is what immigration is supposed to do in the first place).
Your defensive comment to me is EXACTLY what Vivek and Elon are doing to MAGA and we’re NOT going to take it…. P.E.R.I.O.D.
Enough is ENOUGH!
Code writers are the” blue-collar workers” of the tech world.
Bringing in Fornier’s to replace blue collar/ entry level workers is nothing new.
I voted for TRUMP to STOP FORNIERS from taking American’s JOBS.
Both Illegal immigrates and legal (H1B) immigrates take American’s JOBS.
PRES.TRUMP is not going to MAKE AMERICANS GREAT AGIAN by closing the back door of Illegal immigration while opening the front door (wide) for Legal Immagration.
PRESIDENT TRUMP NEEDS TO MAKE IT CLEAR WHERE HE STANDS ON THIS ISSUE.
Meant foreigners instead of Fornier’s….
The UK got the way it is mostly from legal immigration.
He did via the ny post and apparently he’s always loved h1b visas. So yeah.
Which btw is a lie.
I don’t know why everyone believes verbatim what Murdoch’s Post claimed.
I plan to wait until President Trump writes words on Truth Social, or speaks them into a microphone.
Would love to see Darren Beattie on a mic ask PDJT whether he understands the difference between H1-B and O-1 visas.
Maybe he has been conflating the two.
If the H1B visa employees are so superior, WHY DIDN’T THEY MAKE THEIR OWN NATIVE COUNTRIES LEADERS OF THE WORLD?
The answer is important. Only the USA gives these foreigners the opportunity to lead the world in their chosen fields.
Why did Elon Musk not build Tesla or SpaceX in his native South Africa?
Being allowed greater opportunities to prosper in America is a key magnet to attract foreigners seeking to fulfill their dreams.
“WHY DIDN’T THEY MAKE THEIR OWN NATIVE COUNTRIES LEADERS OF THE WORLD?”
An excellent question!
And I think the answer may be those countries do not have the two things which created all the technical achievements Musk is talking about – A Declaration of Independence and a Constitution like the US Constitution.
It’s those two things which allowed the people who migrated here to create what we admire today. It wasn’t how smart those people who came were, it wasn’t about where they came from, it was about freeing the people who came here to be all they wanted to be.
The suggestion our country is great solely because we allowed the importation of smart people has a certain evil connotation. That would be the belief that those we deem “smart” people have more value than those people we believe are “inferior” people.
Re: “the American culture” Vivek was bashing- my neighbor is a neurosurgeon, adults and pediatrics, he’s from India. When he finished residency in NYC, he applied to be a BAR TENDER because he didn’t want to work.
The restaurant wouldn’t hire him- lol.
He since moved to Tampa Fl and worked a few years in the hospital and now moved to L.A. and is trying to get grants to open a research building with top Dr’s to do research without any results that benefit the health of anyone. He stayed at my home drinking till 3am the first night we invited him over. He isn’t going back to work until February 2025. An absolute bum and waste of his talent because he would prefer to game the system.
A damaged man is a dangerous man, he shouldn’t be anywhere near Trump or his family.
Simply put he’s playing out the familial pattern he had with his own estranged father who did murder someone. According to Elon’s father an intruder raped his stepdaughter who he had a baby with.
In Elon’s twisted thinking Trump the new father figure would betray him , he wanted the upper hand so he betrayed first.
Peace, tranquility, a father figure who respects you is not in his wheelhouse. Relationships have to be chaotic, nasty, and dangerous to people like him.
https://nypost.com/2024/12/28/us-news/donald-trump-backs-h-1b-visa-program-supported-by-elon-musk/
Some of us saw this coming, but it wasn’t the “right time” to say anything.
Sad that. During the Christmas dinner I told my daughter in law that President Trump had changed, and the change made me wary. Seems even my cats should be suspicious of him now.
Could this be a calculated misdirection away from the REAL foreing worker problem?
FTA: “The heated debate over H-1B visa workers obscures the far greater inflows of other foreign workers into the white-collar jobs needed by American college graduates.
The federal government issues about 130,000 new H-1B visas each year — plus another 650,000 visas or work permits to other white-collar migrants each year.
The huge giveaway annually delivers roughly two foreign workers for every American who graduates from a four-year college with a skilled degree in science, software, computers, business, healthcare, or engineering.”
https://www.breitbart.com/economy/2024/12/28/h-1b-uproar-obscures-vast-workforce-other-white-collar-migrants/
It’s all one big problem.
I imagine that is not even the half of it. Plenty of other visa programs chock-full of fraud just the same. Americans are winning a victory on the H-1B issue, and the other visa programs will not be far behind.
I’m guessing Trump is recently breaking some bad news to the tech oligarchs, on this and other things, and that elicited Musk’s deranged reaction.
Trump’s staffing indicates he’s elevating antitrust as a cudgel on the tech oligarchs, too. Also, their censorship regime is a problem. They likely made their case on these issues, and he likely rejected some or all of it. And Musk said f*ck you I’m going to war. What a buffoon.
That’s the likely explanation. We’ll see.
I agree with your speculation here – the Elon rage is not at “MAGA” but Trump who fully intends to follow through on his immigration promises- the core of his campaign and movement.
Those who say “Trump has turned” are still trusting fake news sources like the NYPost. We haven’t heard Trump’s response – only raging Elon so far. The rage (imo) is sourced in practical, expensive bad news Elon was not expecting from the Boss.
^^^^THIS!^^^^
Not to mention the Regime Media licking its chops, and the flood of unfamiliar Trump bashers (some familiar) here, all getting in the way of hammering out the issue.
But it will get hammered out. Probably not to everyone’s 100% satisfaction, but enough to at least head in the right direction. That’s my prayer.
Donald Trump just posted that he supports Elon Musk’s position on H-1B visas. Well, I suppose it’s no longer Americans first.
When President Trump says he supports H-1B Visas I have to believe he’s supporting it from a merit-based perspective. I don’t think he means he supports bringing in cheap foreign labor to supplant American workers. This will take some time to shake out.
“Posted” directly on his official Truth account? Or transcribed by the NYPost?
Yep! Consider the source.
I must have missed some Breaking News today – has President Trump nominated Elon Musk to head Homeland Security?
Homeland Security is the Agency in charge of Immigration and VISA’s
Musk and everyone else in the USA can have an “idea”, “position” or whatever on VISA’s of all types – BUT that doesn’t mean they set Policy. Mush and Vivek are tasked with DOGE – not VISA’s or A.I. for that matter.
One of the things that Musk has said repeatedly is that the VISA system needs reform – President Trump agrees and in fact did some of that in Term 1, which Biden quickly changed.
I would say the Leftists and friends are doing a bang up job with the MAGA Civil WAR. Total Hysterical Meltdown in 3 days.
That’s a crazy unhinged photo of Elon lol. Not that he doesn’t deserve it, but I didn’t think I’d see it on this blog.
When Nikki Haley uttered the word “scum” during one of the Republican debates and that was directed at Vivek, it really sounded like she was looking down on him as belonging to a lower caste. She said it in a sotto voce manner, as if under her breath but for the audience to hear it. She seemed really angry that there was this fellow Indian-American vying for the top spot – like that was HER bailiwick, being the Indian-American candidate for President!
Matt Gaetz came down firmly on both sides of the issue, lecturing us that we need “some’ immigration.
He should have kept it zipped, IMO.
https://x.com/FmrRepMattGaetz/status/1872825642783228384
Tired of the well-to-do telling us what’s best for us.
I don’t see the problem. We do need immigration not just a rush for the border of anyone who can make it. He is right. During the endless nursing shortage I worked with Jamaican, Philpino and Africans and was darn glad to have them.
Is there a nursing shortage? Or are there other structural failures within “Medicine”? Hint, farming Medicare, insurance and the pharmaceutical scam is not health care. Complete breakdown in trust of the healthcare system. Burn it down.
I thought he made good points.
Here’s the link again, hoping with the x replaced it will show here.
so…is this what is meant by Dark Maga…?
Ha! Yeah, I guess so.
Glad I didn’t buy that ‘dark MAGA’ hat..🤣
Well President Trump isn’t helping:
https://archive.is/VOpDY
Apparently he wants the H1B scam to continue.
All hero’s fall. Well I’m sure it doesn’t matter but I got another Trump fund raising letter and I’m putting it in the trash. Fk them both….in the face of course.
The election is over your fund raising claim is suspect You may be wearing Maybelline too.
Stephen Miller won’t be swayed by Elon’s and Vivek’s arguments on H1B visas. He knows what’s really happening. And he’ll be in a position to influence policy on this, so I’m waiting to see what happens rather than getting worked up, but Elon’s and Vivek’s comments sure didn’t go over well with me.
Back in the day,we just hit them in the face with a cream pie…My, have times changed..
That would be refreshing right now!
Shanahan has given us an understandable explanation of this complex issue.
I wonder how much money people like Bezos, Zuckerberg, Musk, etc. think they need to be happy. Are they so arrogant, greedy, and selfish that they believe their product brings so much benefit to American citizens that we don’t mind subsidizing their businesses with taxes stolen from our paychecks?
Quite frankly, if money is going to be stolen from my paycheck and called “taxes”, I’d prefer that they use taxpayer money to educate, train, employ, and pay a good wage to our sons and daughters so they can support their families. We have surely given them enough money that they can afford to give back to the US by hiring our children and subsidizing their salaries.
I don’t want my money to be used to make titans richer or to pay people from other countries at the expense of our own citizens. I want my money to be an investment in something for the greater good, not to be charity for titans and other countries.
It seems to me that none of these titans provides a product or service more valuable to the success of a country than the middle class family. When a man works hard, makes good money, remains faithful to his wife and children, raises moral children with a great education and work ethic… it exponentially improves and strengthens the fabric of a society.
Citizens with low morals, low education, low wages, and futureless jobs fall prey to hopeless. Families break up. People turn to drugs. Crime explodes. An intelligent, honest person could draw a line from this problem to feckless immigration.
I’m especially disappointed in Musk. Taxpayers have given him so much money in government hand-outs including the foreigner visas. Does he expect us to bear ALL of his operating expenses? How greedy. How dishonorable. If he has no interest in investing to make the US a better, stronger country, then he is welcome to go back to the UK. And his mama needs to wash his potty mouth out with a bar of deodorant soap.