The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day.
This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very influential sector of the political discourse begins a full-frontal attack against those who are pointing out how the tech community abuse H1B visas to replace American workers. In the background, of course, is the context of widespread immigration policy fraud being one of the priorities for the average Trump supporter.
The Silicon Valley team do not seem to review discussion of the H1B manipulation/fraud within the larger American economy as a problem, as long as the discussion of the visa fraud does not impact their business models. However, as soon as the H1B abuse started to be framed around Silicon Valley’s participation therein, the New Big Tech group take a nuclear war approach to defending their interests.
[SOURCE]
Having followed the immigration issue for a long time, yet specifically only having a big picture review of the H1B visa issues, it has been astounding to watch how Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks and the Silicon Valley supporters and influencers are responding to having the H1B visa fraud confronted. The self-interest in their defense is just astronomical to watch unfold.
Empowered by what can only be reasonably defined as their perceived influence over President Trump, the new-era Tech team are quite forcefully telling the MAGA base of Trump-supporting American workers that their concerns, views and perspectives are irrelevant.
It appears that most of the explosive sentiments revolve around H1B visas in the tech sector issued to Indian workers specifically. Apparently, the friendships, networks and teams attached to the sector of computer engineering carry with them an emotional component. I guess that should not be a surprise considering this is essentially a peer-to-peer wagon circling, in defense of the H1B visa problems in the tech sector.
As said before, it always appeared the MAGA alignment with Silicon Valley would not be an issue until the interests of the billionaire tech team came into conflict with the MAGA base. I did not anticipate the fracture being so fast, nor did I anticipate immigration would be the trigger. However, H1B visa issuance is apparently a key part of the Silicon Valley business model.
That said, several pragmatic aspects of the discussion are now being lost amid a very toxic shouting match that has begun. President Trump and JD Vance are, perhaps understandably, staying very quiet at the moment. However, that silence is soon to be impossible as both sides of a very divisive issue are going to eventually demand President Trump to weigh in.
I will try to cut through some of the toxic noise so that we can discuss the larger issues.
Theo Wold provides some context:
“I led the drafting of legislation in the Trump ‘45 White House to create a new legal immigration framework. I saw firsthand what happens when ANY visa reform is proposed: executives from the biggest multinationals and lobbyists from all kinds of industries are banging on the door, demanding to keep what they have.
What they have is a tangled morass of visa classes that are carve-outs, handouts, and special favors to particular industries, bought and paid for through decades of lobbying feckless members of Congress and presidential administrations. Industries lobby for the foreign workers they claim to “need,” and then they get a visa class carve-out, which they protect (and seek to expand) at all costs.
And there are enormous costs for our nation – costs that fall on the American worker with devastating consequences. The statistics bear that out: job gains go to foreign-born workers while American workers post net job losses.
I also know this firsthand because I grew up a working-class kid, watching my father (and by extension, our family) suffer from unfair foreign labor competition.
For too long, Americans have been largely unaware of the source of these problems because the policies are designed to be too complicated and are made largely invisible to public scrutiny. I’m glad the right is having an open debate about legal immigration. It is past time.
To be clear, the difference between O1Bs and H1Bs matters in this debate, for example, because these visas are intended to accomplish very different goals and are entirely different in scale, BUT both visa classes are rife with abuse. (Plenty of Reggaeton stars and anti-American athletes enter the U.S. on O-1 visas.) Essentially ALL visa classes are abused. Again, that’s because these things exist to serve special interests on one side of the labor market (and it’s not the side of the American worker).
The debate can’t be confined to a single industry – it’s about Big Tech, Big Ag, tourism and hospitality, transportation (airlines, trucking), the media & sports entertainment complex (yes, the NFL and MLB have their own special visa classes and their own special treatment by DHS and State) and many many others. They all want special visas to import cheap and convenient foreign labor. Even the roofing industry is now seeking its own special visa class. And all of these special classes get expanded over time, allowing the American worker to be flooded with foreign competitors for no reason other than labor savings for employers.
I, like many Americans, voted for a sealed border and an immigration moratorium. Americans need to retake control of our immigration system — how many are coming in, for what reasons, and for how long. One question absent from our current system: how does this individual immigrant benefit the American nation and her people? No more blanket exemptions or economic rationales. Immigration is a regime-based question, as both Hamilton and Jefferson wrote on extensively, and our system should reflect that Americans must also demand meaningful investment in assimilation and integration requirements for legal immigrants here already.’ (Source)
Within the debate, those who advocate for the H1B visa process are quick to call anyone a “racist” or “nativist” who stands against it. Within the tech industry the use of H1B is positioned as vital for their success.
As can be noted by the extreme position on the pro-H1B side of the discussion, they view this debate as a zero-sum contest. The position of Musk and the Silicon Valley tech group is that if the H1B process is stopped, American technological advancements will immediately cease to exist.
When it is pointed out that Silicon Valley discriminates against white Americans with engineering degrees and or skills, Silicon Valley shouts back the same arguments as the DEI promoters Musk claims to abhor. Musk and the tech group immediately use the Alinsky attack method (isolate, ridicule, marginalize) against anyone who speaks forcefully against their interests. The Musk allies and influencers then pile on. It is something remarkable to watch happen.
Years of Americans in various business sectors being forced to train their foreign replacements before the Americans are terminated from employment, underscore a very hardened stance against the H1B abuse. The decision by the Silicon Valley network to dismiss this problem because they want to sustain their current business operations is not going to end well unless some cooler heads immediately intercede.
Nicole Shanahan, Robert F Kennedy’s former running mate – and also a Silicon Valley network influencer, puts it this way:
“Having lived in Silicon Valley for 20+ years and founded and sold an AI company, I’ve seen firsthand how we rely on H-1B to fill grueling, unglamorous coding jobs. These jobs are essential, and we need capable people doing them. But the system needs an overhaul.
Here’s why:
To keep pace with global competitors like China and India, we need Americans ready to tackle the challenging jobs in these fields. We have them, but often our STEM grads turn their noses up at these entry-level, low-paying coding positions after investing in a costly education.
So why are immigrants from India, China, and elsewhere so eager for these jobs? It’s not because they’re glamorous or because these roles don’t exist back home. And definitely not because they offer high salaries. There’s something else driving this…
The undeniable proof that the United States is the single greatest nation on earth is that people from every corner of the globe dream of coming here—not to China or India—but America.
I take issue with some of the discourse I’ve read online today suggesting “lazy American culture” is the main driver for why we need to continue the H-1B program. Let’s be real: tech companies getting massive breaks on cheap labor at the expense of the American way of life is predatory.
Blaming our culture for why American STEM grads won’t take underpaying jobs is ridiculous and insulting.
The system we’ve constructed with H-1B visas, whether we like it or not, incentivizes people to come here and serve as essentially indentured servants for Big Tech, taking on the tough, grueling jobs that few here in America are excited to perform at the current suppressed salaries.
In return, if you’re good at your job, you’re then put on a fast track to get a Green Card, which means legal status and the chance to bring your family over through chain migration.
I’m reminded of this famous line by our second President, John Adams: “I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.”
Just because our kids have the “right” to chase artistic dreams like music and painting, doesn’t mean we should bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers to displace them in math-intensive careers. It’s a two-fold issue: both our education and immigration policies are broken. Instead of tackling these complex issues head-on, Big Tech monopolies and tech VCs are looking for the fastest way to outcompete globally and become industry giants. It’s paid off—look at the insane valuations of these companies!
We can’t entirely blame them for this approach—it’s been the industry norm for 40 years—but we can insist they seek out the tough, lasting solutions. No more temporary fixes.
I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
But, do I think removing the incentive of attaining legal status would reduce the volume of foreign applicants? Absolutely.
And, guess what? That might finally force Big Tech to look for workers right here at home (and pay them a competitive wage). Americans expect fair pay, which means these companies would have to start sharing their wealth rather than hoarding it.
Meritocracy is key to America’s greatness, but so are justice and fairness—we shouldn’t keep rewarding an industry that has curtailed free speech and American values. After Trump’s recent victory, the everyday worker feels empowered like never before. They won’t surrender that power, and frankly, it’s not right to imply they should.
There are numerous ways to improve our immigration system while safeguarding the American labor force (and I say “force” because it truly is capable, creative, and powerful).
Here are two straightforward steps to start the process:
1. Immigration policy must be designed to protect the American way of life and its workforce. Singapore’s work permit program, which they designed in the ’90s, was built from this standard and could provide good inspiration. They use a modern-day designation system to manage the influx of labor across various sectors.
⁃ Employers face levies (essentially fees that employers have to pay for each foreign worker they hire. It’s a way to manage the number of foreign workers coming in by making it more expensive to employ them, encouraging companies to also look for talent locally).
⁃ There are Dependency Ceilings, which essentially limit the number of foreign workers based on the local workforce—this is KEY.
⁃ They impose restrictions on the countries from which workers can come.
⁃ Permits are diversified across industries to ensure balance.
2. Special economic zones are amazing and can transform local tech job markets. Hiring locally is going to be critical for making sure Americans are taking key tech industry roles AND able to support their families.
If we really want to lift America to heights unseen in generations—not just talk about it, but actually do it—then we can’t continue to stick to outdated strategies that have harmed Americans. We owe it to ourselves and our communities to aim higher and do better.” (source)
As I watch this debate unfold, I find myself finally realizing why all the Silicon Valley tech people were such staunch Democrats. Their worldview does not: (1) seem to comprehend American Economic Nationalism as a priority; (2) seem to appreciate the importance of true liberty in the creation of the remarkable outcomes from American exceptionalism; and (#3) they appear to be inside a bubble of self-interest, unattached and unaffected by the economic issues that have seriously harmed the MAGA base.
In essence, the Silicon Valley network represented by Elon Musk team, does not connect in the same way to the important priorities of middle America. The technocrats are, well, Technocrats.
Watching this debate unfold is quite remarkable.
Illegal roofers & carpenters have conquered the home repair & building industry’s.
Since the Great Recession(2008/2009) my families 50+ year exterior remodeling company has been fighting this problem to no avail.
Even though my company pays two and a half times my highest competitors labor rate, requires my subs’ foreman to be either an American citizen for which no American has applied since the Great Recession or be at least in the process of becoming a citizen the compensation structure has been destroyed. My company is being undermined by all of my competitors paying cash for their labor while I am writing checks to follow IRS regulations. I require my sub-contractors be licensed and insured (State of Michigan Requires Licensing & Insurance) however, none of my competitors follow those restrictions.
Earlier las Summer I asked one of the largest national suppliers of exterior products what are they going to do when no one shows up at their stores all across America to pick up material for their projects as almost all of them are illegal aliens! – They looked at me with blank faces.
I even asked my local representative of one of the largest national manufacturers of exterior building products to ask at their national meeting in Texas in early December what are they going to do when no one shows up into local supplier stores all across America to pick up material for their projects as almost all of them are illegal aliens! – I was told by my local representative that they had no plan and hadn’t even though about it.
I have been talking about this problem for 15 years and now it is about to come to a head – thank God!
One of the big tech firms I worked for in California had about 30 H1B workers from India. Nice guys, we would go to lunch once a week at a local Indian restaurant. But they weren’t geniuses or even capable in our software, they were learning and eager but constantly needed help and even rescue when they screwed up. One of the Indian H1B workers was “the boss”. Knew nothing about computers but he was the slave driver, literally. He was grumpy, disliked the American workers there and his focus was on driving the Indian workers to work 100 hours a week and not associate with the Americans any more than necessary. Eventually they, the team of about 30 workers, did take over some responsibilities and replaced American workers. But the single driving force for management was simply their willingness to work 100 hours a week without overtime. Don’t misunderstand I too worked long hours with no overtime pay, it is the nature of high tech positions that we were both ineligible for overtime and our job required 50-60 hours a week with occasional 80 hour weeks. This was the norm, I worked in this field for 45 years and I was always called into work in the middle of the night and spent many days/nights on the job catching a few minutes of sleep while waiting on the computer. But, honestly I think I would have quit if I had to work 80-100 hour weeks all the time. And often big computer systems, big databases and time critical production requires it. But the important takeaway from this is that we never had a shortage of American workers AND they were sharp, intelligent and could do the job. But they were not happy with the long hours without the overtime pay and were vocal about it. And THAT is the only reason management want H1B workers, so that they were never forced to make this class of workers eligible for overtime.
Bannon on War Room going strong on this now…we will not back off, we will not lower the temperature, we are gladiators and we will win.
Wow, Musk has gone crazy….he’s threatening MAGA….
Trump needs to fire Musk and Vivek.
Hard to believe they would inadvertently start this chaos (I mean necessary dialogue) before their controversial commencement of government reform. Very strange.
Just knock them out of the game them with the old DOGE ball.
Bannon is against that “green cards for graduates” nonsense that someone put in President Trump’s head too.
Yeah-that’s crazy. Handing it out like candy. As if there wasn’t enough abuse and displacement at the higher ed level. That will encourage more.
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Shanahan nails it. There is nothing more to say. The world’s wealthiest wealth-hoarding tech moguls — and the entire college-through-employer DEI systen — tells white boys to FU rather than have a structure that elevates Americans and American values. Their wealth is built on the backs of rewarded indentured servitude.
Overwhelmingly, these jobs aren’t that difficult. It’s just that what would be the real costs of getting them done and getting Americans to do them is pushed out of the employers’ companies and onto the backs of the American people.
I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
But, do I think removing the incentive of attaining legal status would reduce the volume of foreign applicants? Absolutely.
And, guess what? That might finally force Big Tech to look for workers right here at home (and pay them a competitive wage). Americans expect fair pay, which means these companies would have to start sharing their wealth rather than hoarding it.
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Let’s add some larger (possible ) context.
Remember when, on December 22 2017, a certain board suggested that the deal EM made was that his companies would get massive US government subsidies in return for the clowns getting the access codes? And with a connection to all the facial ID tech used by Facebook and Apple, in particular?
Remember, tech that can make the billions visible can make the favored few (and the children) invisible to Skynet. How useful to a variety of cabal activities is that?
There is a lot of fog out there – we look to be on Elon 2.0 most of the time – but the allegation from 2017 rings true.
There are a tiny handful of people on the planet who under the right circumstances, really could assume the James Bond super villain role.
Ironic in that at the same time woke culture is trying to pervert the core essence of what makes James Bond, James Bond.
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As always, follow the money and as Sundance pointed out, the fear for and protection of the CORPORATE BUSINESS MODEL is the motivation behind the major reaction.
Both Elon and Vivek have exposed their true view of Americans which remains common among the ultra wealthy and this is not a recent turn.
Recall in our history the practice of company script where the head of the lumber or mining company paid workers pitiful wages in script, redeemed at the company store for inflated prices for food and supplies, their homes owned by the company.
Think about the movie It’s a Wonderful Life you may have just watched as a visual example. The rich and powerful always want indentured servants for pennies.
America wants better than to be servants in the caste system. ALL America has seen and felt this in their lives and was insulted.
Never had an x acct but yesterday I opened one on Gab as a middle finger to Elon. Royally pissed.
“….I will go to war on this issue the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend….”
Did Musk make implied threats like this during the Twitter negotiations?
I’m sorry, the system has completely decimated by all the overlords for the past 100 years. You were dreaming if you thought we could fix the system.
Well,”decimate” means only 10% of the (original, working) system has been destroyed.
The other 90% remains for PDJT to tackle fixing. That’s okay by me.
That includes the gig economy. Companies like DoorDash, which is a hybrid tech and logistics company, depend on illegals to deliver food. Nearly every “Dasher” I’ve encountered is a native Spanish speaker, and their app provides the dasher with English translation of any communication to the customer. More recently, the dashers have been asian or African (not African-American). They have fake names on their dasher accounts, so you’ll see a name like “Steve” but then an illegal Hispanic woman drives up to deliver your food. Not so different than tech support, where they misrepresent “Mahesh, location: India call center” as “Joe, location: Ohio” to supposedly make Americans feel better.
I forgot the website I saw this on, but they are one of many companies who seek out illegals like the companies staffing the meat processing plants, etc.
If you took away their illegals, they would collapse overnight. Their business model is completely dependent on cheap labor. I have no idea if this is true, but would not be surprised if their website maintenance is dependent on H1-B workers. Perhaps built by some young techie (whether American or H1-B) who got funding from Sam Altman’s YCombinator VC fund or others. So the VC fund is also making a killing by funding business models which depend on an illegal underclass to serve the needs of the laptop class.
To claim that American’s don’t want these jobs and won’t do them is ludicrous. Perhaps not at the depressed wages. American kids who delivered newspapers on bicycles were displaced by illegals in pickups in the 80’s. American kids who mowed lawns to build work ethic and save a few bucks were replaced by illegal gardeners. Fast forward a generation and those gardeners are employing the next waves of illegals to grow their gardening businesses. American kids worked at fast food places as summer jobs before they were replaced with illegals. In’n’Out is one of the last chains to bear any semblance to how things were. Home construction (framing, roofing, plumbing, electrical work, foundation work, etc) is mostly illegals now, or second-gen depending on the influx of new illegals.
The tech industry is no different.
You touched on the “working poor.” In states like NY, they qualify for many government subsidies. In essence, this “welfare” is an effective minimum wage paid by all taxpayers who exceed the income thresholds for most welfare/subsidies.
Right on. Elon and Vivek have now put President Trump in a very awkward position. By their actions they have made him look incompetent to judge character – which is THE most important trait to consider when making decisions about who will run our country. Was Trump taken in by Elon’s “intelligence” and Vivek’s “talent?” If so, I hope he learns a lesson and does the right thing.
Let’s be honest. We do need to supplement our workforce because of idiotic programs like “no child left behind” where we have graduated generations of idiots and I don’t just mean uneducated kids, I mean bona fide idiots. People who are not fit to work at fast food or a 7-11. This has weakened our country and diluted our home grown talent pool. All under the current Federal DOE, which is why it needs to be closed down. So for now, we need these foreign workers but alongside that we need real education and less pop culture and idiot screen time for our kids.
We don’t need squat – the majority of those effected by the policies are the same ones that wouldn’t cut it to begin with. Quit believing the lies told (or quit spreading them yourself as the case may be) that there aren’t any Americans who have navigated through the insanity.
Well said. As white 10 year old kid in the south I picked cotton to earn a bit of my own money and later picked green beans by the bushel on weekends for local farmer.
I have ZERO white guilt and believe none of that nonsense of white privilege.
In Oregon: I picked green beens. My brother worked in canning factory. Kids worked in the summer. All the kids I knew picked beanas or strawberries. (8th grade) Ditto to what you say on guilt and privilege. Or as my Dad said, “An idle teenager is trouble.”
Bad educators and curricula are only obstacles to be circumvented and bypassed to those who are talented and motivated.
There are still plenty of industrious Americans who are qualified in spite of the sabotage and suppression.
Great comment.
So we need workers from India who have received better educations in that hellhole?
These are two separate issues.
We insist that every student stays in school to get a high school diploma: but many have no interest in learning and pull the bar down for everyone. We need to revive and grow vocational education and paid apprenticeships; and challenge and encourage the 25% or so who actually do want higher education.
But coding doesn’t seem to require higher education. There are millions of young hackers who teach themselves coding: the tech industry ought to seek those creative coders out and pay them well.
Not true. Employers don’t want to pay liveable wages. Those Indians they import live in crowded houses and have to work lots of unpaid OT without complaint because the company owns them.
pause. all. immigration. now.
figure. out. what. the. hell. is. going. on.
expel. all. illegal. aliens.
PERIOD.
When we had slavery in America, the owner paid for everything the slave needed: food, clothing, medical, etc. The slave was not a burden to all of America just to the owner.
Now Americans get stuck with paying medical, food stamps, childcare, the list grows…..
Stop all immigration day one.
Actually, immigration used to work the same way. It was legal, through channels like Ellis Island, and immigrants had to be sponsored by someone in America. The govt immigration handlers at Ellis Island weeded out those who were sick via quarantines, and determined who they were and where they were being housed. The sponsor was responsible for housing, food, etc, and all the immigrant’s basic needs until they got on their feet and could be self-sufficient — so they were not dependent on our safety net to survive, and did not drain resources meant to help our own citizens in need.
That’s how ethnic neighborhoods sprang up in the 1900s, like the Chinatowns, Little Italys, Slavic, the Jewish Lower East Side, and Hispanic areas. One relative would save up, be sponsored by a relative already here as a citizen, make the journey, live with their relative, and help out in that family’s business while they learned the language, earned enough to get their own place, and got acclimated. Eventually, they would settle in, and then send for their wife and kids, or another family member. (The movie Hester Street from the 1970s illustrates it well.)
These families would live near other families from their country, who knew their language and could help them get established. Eventually, you ended up with an ethnic neighborhood, with varying degrees of assimilation. They supported the immigrants, started businesses, and did not drain social services. I even remember that during the post Vietnam era, there were a lot of churches that sponsored Cambodian and Vietnamese families who had no relatives here, and were escaping for their lives as their countries were in chaos. So again, the churches sheltered them with families taking them in, and helping them get established and self-sufficient.
Just saying, that model worked at the time. Now, even when churches and non-profits handle illegal aliens or asylum seekers, it is taxpayer money and liberal cheap labor advocates that is footing the bill, and not private donors or members. Immigration has gone from being a charity to being a big business.
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And we paused that less-bad model and stopped most immigration for 40 years in the 20th century, during which time the United States became the most powerful successful nation on earth.
In part, public education was implemented for the purpose of assimilation.
At this point, we don’t need more people, period.
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No green card renewals. Upon expiration, a plane ticket is issued with escort onto plane. NO chain migration or visas of any kind issued to family members. No monies earned here allowed out of USA. No loans attainable. No home/real estate purchases. Pay into FICA and medicare but not counted as time invested to collect. No permanent residency status. Become citizen, speaking and writing English within three years where no dual citizenship allowed. But wait! There is more…..
Ban “birthright citizenship”.
Banning birthright citizenship will solve a lot of problems! No other country is stupid enough to do this.
Hear! Hear!
This eruption feels artificial to me. It’s brought good and necessary debate but also division. I wonder which agency plotted the strategy to take down MAGA and the coalitions built. Wise up people. Stop taking the bait. Stay focused. Illegal immigration is a major problem. Solutions for the other issues can be found. But we have to stay united.
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Is it “bait” if Elon Musk is the one posting it?
Do you trust Elon not to be in the control of some tentacle of the Blob somewhere?
Sundance doesn’t.
I’m in the verification process for trust, and today is not looking good. Tomorrow either.
Heck no, we don’t need to be united with our enemies. And these tech oligarchs will forever be our enemies.
Tactical deals are fine, short term. That term ends when they decide they want to be our enemies again.
Bye.
He’s posting about the political “coalition” that re-elected PDJT; what many at CTH keep labelling “We” or “The American People”. Ideologically, the “We” is not a homogenous group of interests. I don’t know what the percentages are, but common sense informs me there are plenty pieces that have overlapping interests but also separate issues: e.g., disaffected Democrats, various religious components (Christian, Hebrew, Muslim, etc.), farmers, inner city poverty zone captives, blue collar workers, taxpayers, stockholders, business leadership, anti-woke, isolationist, Constitutionalists, accountability advocates, border security advocates, bankers/financiers, MIC (big, beautiful military), small business entrepreneurs, anti-Green, pro-fossil fuel/pro-nuclear, etc., etc.
I’ll be impressed if PDJT keeps the ball rolling with minimum internal fracturing.
Just as with the Dem party, one of the opposition probes is going to be exploitation of these internal tectonic plates. I think Cozette’s responses are often correct about the “behind the scenes” machinations – call it intuition/first impression if you like.
From my own pov, I always believed that the whole border security/deportation matter had built in constraints – there isn’t enough money to perform a total sweep and deport operation – not with all the other things that have to be accomplished (most especially reducing the Federal debt). One reason, IMO, it has been framed so far along three planes: deport all illegals with criminal records/gang affiliations, determine the status and return 300,000 illegal children, complete rebuilding of the border wall and restore properly funded, trained and manned border security (and enforcement). One can likely include arresting the flow of drugs and sex/human trafficking under the border security hat as well.
MAGA is not going to get everything it wants during this Presidency.
An Aside: vis the H1B exchanges, I have seen posts on other sites stating that the real problem lies in what are called L1 immigration permits and not H1B. L1, these people claim, is where most of the corporate chicanery/outright lying has happened. Not my area of expertise. Others may have better info.
The “we” is us, the “they” are corporate parasites like these tech oligarchs, now demanding their grift.
You don’t need 250 words to frame this. It’s pretty simple.
You bet.
So the whole sub-theme of corrupt IC is just another chimera thrown out into the “informed” wild to confuse everyone.
All due respect, I don’t believe in substituting simple slogans for complex problem spaces.
Were I still in the info warfare game, people like you would be so easy to exploit it’s laughable. But I digress. PDJT has more problems on his plate than he has time or resources. Kind of a common problem in life – only his problem set is infinitely bigger than what “We” encounter in our lives.
Your problem? You don’t bring ****ing solutions backed by reasoned argument to the table. Just rhetoric and anger. Tired and bored with that personality type.
I don’t need 250 more of the same empty words, lad. It’s very simple, and the volume of your unread words demonstrates you don’t get it.
It costs less to deport than to feed and house and provide free medical care and schooling for them and their offspring. I’m pretty sure you know that.
I’ll agree that it’s over the top.
He famously told Bob Eiger to F’k himself. We all saw it as morally just.
But now he just told all of us to go F’k ourselves in the face.
If Elon Musk is following the law as it relates to H1B hiring, then he might have better said he was doing nothing illegal and the called out the Biden administration for using lawfare to go after him for REFUSING to do anything illegal.
Keep in mind they went after SpaceX for his not hiring of people without proper papers in order. It is a national security requirement. So he definitely understands the law.
Is he defending his use of H1B as completely legal and not paying people less than he would pay US Americans? This image certainly needs to be more sharply defined.
But from the general public’s view? It looks like he just told MAGA to F’k ourselves…. in the face.
Daniel, as I see it, H1B visas serve a purpose. There are two camps. Those that do right by it and those that do not. CRUSH those that misuse it. PERIOD. Unfortunately, many people are portraying this as an “All or Nothing” issue. There can be good in this program. Promote the good and destroy the bad. To assist, start with a 75% reduction in numbers to force HR departments to spend the time and effort to find U.S. citizens to fill the slots.
…steps off soapbox…
He just told President Trump to go Fawk himself………..
Good point. Stay focused on All immigration especially H1B visas. Also all illegal in the US. The diversion will be deporting a large number of Mexicans and that will be the focus of the media with promises made and promises kept . They will hide and no mention anything public the Indian H1B illegal visa, Indians people. Just watch it play out this way. Remember the Americans are easily diverted in attention span.
It seems as though it’ll destroy the belief that Musk and others have that they control Trump – that is, if Trump is smart enough to realize our opposition to immigration includes any tricky visa programs.
Billionaires are claiming very boldly that they OWN Trump and are in charge of the administration – it’ll be interesting to see how he responds because he will kill his support if he caves on this issue.
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May I point out that “MAGA” -IS- united. Look carefully at the small group on the other side. Were they and their parents born here? And have they made themselves monumentally wealthy by creating their businesses in this country and, among other things, palming off their real labor costs on the backs of Americans.
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Actually legal immigration is the bigger problem. We have policies to not take immigrants that are white, etc. The agenda has always been white replacement and cheap labor. We have chain migration, birthright citizenship and massive welfare for legal immigrants. No country in the world takes as many immigrants as we do – not even close.
We should shut down all immigration until we have assimilated everyone currently here. We should also have no immigration until there are no homeless veterans or unemployed Americans that want to work.
If we allow immigration again, it should be from countries that share culture/values. So, people that already speak English, or are Christian, or come from Democratic countries that do not have a socialist economy.
No country can survive without a common language, history, culture, values, etc. The globalists know this hence why they are flooding Europe a North America with immigrants.
I was wondering how Vivek and Elon could be so insulting to Trump’s base? For this is deliberate provocation and I doubt Trump likes it.
Elon Musk is a technological pioneer and great addition to our movement, let there be no doubt about that.
But one can only hope that one day he is blessed with the wisdom to know when to keep his big mouth shut.
J
Whatever elon is doing now, came out of a DARPA program 30 years ago. There is no research and development being done outside government sponsored programs since WW2. It is captured under the national security umbrella. Tech is a store front, a cut out.
The mess we are in, and techs success are a tangled with long standing state sponsorship and policy. This has been done to us on purpose.
And “they” deliberately picked infantile narcissistic twerps whose parents or grandparents were involved to be the “face” of the storefronts–Zuckerburg, Musk, Bezos, Gates. They are not exceptional at all. They are the ultimate example of Dunning Kruger effect.
Not quite the gift he thinks he is. What has he done without government money? And where does he think that money comes from?
Exactly. Musk’s SpaceX owes it existence to the CIA’s investment arm In-Q-Tel and Mike Griffin. In 2008 SpaceX was on the verge of bankruptcy and NASA gave them a $3+ billion dollar contract even though SpaceX had yet to send anything into space successfully. And guess who was the head of NASA well Mike Griffin. Today Musk’s SpaceX is supplying Ukraine with communication and being paid by our government. As for Tesla per their SEC filings their profit is due to selling government invented carbon credits to other corporations not selling autos. Musk like Fakebook and other tech companies owe their success to be at the taxpayer trough slurping up taxpayer dollars from their client which is the government. Musk is the largest private contractor for government.
“Tech is a store front, a cut out.”
Yep! NASA can be FOIA’d. Private enterprises, such as Spacex, cannot.
Musk won the lottery when he was handed the keys to the kingdom, via gov’t contracts.
Good thing then that the Cold War had no impact on political and tech dynamics!
It begins to make sense why he may have been pushed out of the DNC scene – too much sperging?
lol i remember saying that about Trump.
Too late. His real self just peaked through.
I wasn’t sure about him and then sort of warming up to him but now I suggest he take a giant step back (like back to South Africa) and eff himself in his own face.
After all we don’t want to hold him back from his innovations being so lazy and mefiocre. Maybe India is the place for him. Enjoy the smell Elon!
No, I prefer the full frontal assault to the conniving back stabbing type.
Let the toddler show the world who he is.
Perhaps you do not understand the objectives of these Technocrats?
They are willing to MAGA if it keeps their agenda moving forward.
IF you are not fully aware of their agenda here is a list:
Transhumanism
Moving their “electric signals of their body” ( the soul) into machines. (modern day fountain of youth)
Creating a multiplanetary economy
Dividing up the natural resources of Earth into different sectors under the control of approved oligarchs for the multiplanetary economy.
+
They have been untilizing the US / Europe for this process of building this Tower of Babel. The Democrat Party/Uniparty has been a willing tool toward this end.
See the shift to MAGA to continue using the US for said purposes.
May Musk NOT KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT. May he continue to expose his heart and the hearts of others in that sector of society that We the People may know and choose what way to go.
May resentment against this abuse grow and demand action to protect Americans through the hand of Trump – the man who opened this door.
But be advised: their plans are so large they will not go quietly into the night. WE will need to be willing to sacrifice some tech convenience in order to save our nation from their lust, greed and pride.
A more fundamental issue that needs to be looked at is the basic motivation of the typical US publicly traded company. I think we all know how income for corporate leaders is tied to the share price of the company. While there are multiple reasons for movement of share price, the most relevant one is profit.
Most analysts do not consider the fairness of labor force substitution when assessing future share price. I would suggest that most of us have the same tunnel vision when investing our hard earned money. We want to maximize return on investment and cutting costs is a critical part of the equation. National competitiveness changes over years, if not decades. Corporate leadership is focused on the next quarter. That is the disconnect that has to be addressed.
Although this thread is H1-B specific, it is not the whole picture. Given the availability of high-bandwidth communications, I would argue that the physical presence of an Indian coder in the US is not required. Hire a bunch in India and it is still the US citizen coder who suffers.
MAGA is, perhaps, the only coalition that is focused on US national interest. We need to drive the change that realigns interest to needs of our fellow citizens.
Whether through policy or incentives, we need to demonstrate the tangible and intangible benefits that accrue from a US workforce.
One last thought: our education system is focused on the wrong outcome. Any engineer (myself included) will tell you that we use a small portion of what we learned in college during our entire career. Education needs to be focused on the needs of the marketplace.
It’s better to talk about the parties involved, IMO. Shareholders want to maximize return, why not? Employees want to maximize total wages, why not? It’s the job of citizens and taxpayers to maximize sovereignty.
Amen, and most especially your thoughts outlined in your last paragraph! Our country DESPERATELY needs a complete education system overhaul. Too much emphasis on social mores and negativity – and we are turning out selfish, needy, intellectual morons instead of citizens who understand that there are no free handouts and one must work hard and gain every scrap of education/knowledge available in order to succeed.
^^^^^^^^ 🎯
“the physical presence of an Indian coder in the US is not required”, true, but that would prevent the chain migration problem.
Which is one of the factors making social security insolvent.
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We don’t need Indian coders. Moreover, foreign workers handling any sensitive projects while they are outside of the U.S. without loyalty incentives such as future green card are not trustworthy.
The problem is that green cards, chain migration, U.S. benefits, et al. essentially are employment costs being subsidized by the American taxpayer (in addition to corporate contracts and corporate welfare incentives.) That is in part how these companies are so booming. And the super-wealthy tech titans as well as the merely-wealthy up-and-comers want to keep this business model.
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You would think Americans were demanding special privileges, special treatment, and special funding instead of employment in their own country.
Absolutely! America is more than the sum of the widgets She produces.
This reveal of what is behind the Musk mask is a blessing.
Yes, I agree this eruption is God’s answering our prayers. I’m glad that it is happening now – when it is easier to make adjustments.
May God grant We the People the wisdom and vision on how to proceed against this evil dressed in good clothing.
Yes, and it’s pathetic and has to change. Our young people need to be re-taught the concept of a work ethic, and the incentive to go on – and stay on – the dole at the cost of the taxpayers must be eliminated.
I agree, Emily. As a boomer, I was part of the cheap labor pool that worked in fast-food restaurants, after school jobs, summer jobs, delivered papers, shoveled snow for a dollar for neighbors, minimum-wage entry level jobs, etc. We did all kinds of scut work, starting as kids to earn extra spending money, working our way through college — and doing entry level jobs for low pay and grueling hours, to get a foothold in a business where we could climb our way into a job that we majored in. If coding were a thing back then, we all would have done it if that’s what it took to get a toe in at Microsoft.
There were so many of us boomers in a competitive job market, that having a good work ethic set you apart for raises and promotions. That was how I worked my way up in Boston ad agencies as a graphic artist in the ’70s-’80s. I paid my dues and was a skilled and conscientious worker, and always managed to find work in my field that paid the bills with some left over.
I do remember a time, though, when I was in my 40s, doing TV producing and writing at a media ministry, and overheard one of the millennials complaining that “the boomers have all the good jobs,” as if we had some kind of privilege. I had worked at that place for 7 years, starting as a part time paste up artist out of grad school, working into an entry level writer and soon senior writer in the direct marketing dept. (after my successful Boston ad agency years) before I finally got a break and landed the job I wanted in their TV dept across the street. She was right out of the grad school next door, too, but seemed to feel that her degree entitled her to instantly land the creative job of her dreams. She was lucky to find a spot doing any TV production, as many grad school grads were vying for those slots — yet, she seemed clueless about working your way up the ladder.
Just saying, I think we live in an era where we see stories about people like Musk, Zuckerberg, Jobs, Gates, and others, who start businesses in a garage in California in their 20s (sometimes as college dropouts) and their career goes viral and makes them billionaires by their 40s. Nice work if you can get it, but it doesn’t happen nearly as often as the movies make it seem. We need to find a way to instill a work ethic that perseveres toward success, and away from entitlement, back into our kids and our culture.
“ perceived influence over President Trump”
Let’s hope it is only perceived….
I have concerns about this. Someone posted a tweet from PDJT from 2016 and he was aligned with us.
If things have changed he should remember that Elon and these new friends only endorsed him after the Government failed to assassinate him. We’ve had his back since 2015.
Revolver News is on fire today:
https://revolver.news/2024/12/turns-out-the-h-1b-lotto-system-is-totally-and-completely-rigged/
All the receipts on the body shops so far.
A must read.
Vivek would never bring Mushmallow into his family like Trump did.
The days of wine and curry are over boys.
We didn’t need them the first time around, we certainly don’t need them now.
Now we know why the tech guys are all headed to Maralago. To protect their golden visa goose.
Elon Musk’s net worth is $450 billion. He could have paid American coders a competitive wage all along, used NO H1B foreigners, and STILL be a billionaire.
It’s not about best and brightest, or tech advantage, or lazy Americans (I call BS on that anyway). It is about one and only one thing: money in Elon’s pocket. And that goes for the rest of them too (looking at YOU, Bill). The reason Silicon Valley is here, and not in India, is that America offers a unique visa mechanism to line the owners’ pockets at the expense of native workers. If India allowed the tech billionaires to import workers from China and pay them half what they pay Indians, Silicon Valley would be in India.
Terminate the entire work visa program for ALL industries. ALL of it. You can come here for years and travel around spending your money as a tourist, but you CAN’T work here. The only exception I would allow would be seasonal agricultural workers, and I would put a sunset provision on that. You get ten years to design a machine to pick lettuce. Open all these jobs up to American workers and a whole host of American social problems would immediately begin to mitigate, from homelessness to drug addiction to crime.
Oh, and 47: we are watching you very closely because we are used to being used and double-crossed. You would be well advised to remember that WE are the MAGA movement. We just put YOU at the head of OUR parade. We’re watching you.
Was Mr. Musk directing that “F Bomb” towards Americans? And our face?
I am very disturbed by his choice of words and the vague direction it implies.
Did you hear that noise? Its my wallet snapping shut.
Do we need to meet at The Green Dragon? Or a really cool place on Route 66?
By the way……consider this…
All those hospitals who have had their data and client info hacked…it can’t all be the hackers looking for easy money to sell on the dark web…..
We need some real investigations that get to the deep source of it all.
its well past Green Dragon time
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The portion of Route 66 that I was recently on has one of the busiest Tesla charging stations I have ever seen . . .
“Was Mr. Musk directing that “F Bomb” towards Americans? And our face?”
That’s certainly the way I read it. That tweet should be in the dictionary next to the entry for “hubris.”
Someone else posted this, but OMG is it worth reading:
https://news.gab.com/2024/12/the-h-1b-immigration-debate-a-clash-of-worlds-and-values/
Reeks of Spoiled brat.
This war started by Elon has absolutely tanked a few of Trumps cabinet nominees. There is no way now a RINO R Senator will think a threat of being ‘primaried’ is real now. After the CR battle, you could see they were all feeling the pressure developed on X in large part to Elon getting the message out. Now? Not a chance to generate that same kind of momentum.
The only way to stop the H1B abuse is to make it really hurt these oligarchs to hire foreigners. All it takes is a simple “sponsorship tax” for each H1B. Make it heavy – like 100-150% of the worker’s wages – and you’ll see the abuse taper off immediately.
Next, outlaw “lobbying.” It’s bribery, plain and simple, and that’s how the oligarchs get their carve-outs. Stop it. Let the oligarchs publicly campaign for the changes they want, and then we will all vote on it.
Iow … Tariffs on businesses that hire foreign and exploit visa backdoors
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
All 12 apply.
https://sliwainsights.com/saul-alinskys-12-rules-for-radicals/
Surely this is a time for a “Bud Light”?
These tech oligarchs think that foreign labor is critical to their business models to the detriment of hiring Americans and their rotten culture.
My suggestion is that they put their money where their mouths are and pay double for foreign labor plus signing bonuses in addition to your sponsorship tax. Let’s see how fast they change their tunes when they have to pay more, way more, for “superior” foreign slave labor. Additionally, their foreign slave workers are not eligible for government subsidies. Their employers have to pay for them.
Suddenly, they would be crawling through the USA looking to train and hire US citizens. They would be so pro-American worker that it would make our heads spin.
It’s all about their $$$$$ and not ours.
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Can’t outlaw “lobbying”. First Amendment right to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
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H1B visas are not MAGA. The techies claim the issue is the American work force, is it? If it is how do we address the issue? How long? What specifically are the issues? GenZ? Lazy and entitled? That’s not education that is cultural. Foreign workers are cheaper. USAA insurance fired 60% of it’s work force to bring in Indian workers, the service suffered, the rate increased, and the company made more money. The consumer did not benefit.. How do we as Americans benefit if Elon wants to go to war? Or was it just a scam to gain favor knowing the Democrats were going to lose.
This all needs to come out. The USAA thing stings me especially.
But we’ve had between two and three generations of woke development coming from our schools. In the same way they have destroyed the military with their DEI crap, do you think the tech industry is any less affected? Likely moreso. Until we can un-f’k those young minds, we have to get by. I’m not advocating for H1B. They should be begging for all the people they fired to return.
My former insurance company evidently outsourced it’s customer service to Mexico, and service suffered and rates increased.
My local utility company messed up its billing department through outsourcing, and we get bills too close together etc. and it has been going on for a year.
There’s something wrong with an adult who puts those words in writing for public consumption. He should be nowhere near the controls of national power. He sounds unstable. I was all in for DOGE. Now, I seriously wonder what having them shape the future of our government will do. Run it like a tech company is looking less appealing.
I don’t want someone with antipathy toward Americans deciding which American government workers deserve to lose their jobs.
Especially since I’ve discovered that we don’t even know how much government work is outsourced to contractors who hire H1b workers.
Donald would never use an F Bomb in public…he has Melania to answer to!
Yes – and, as he has mentioned, Franklin Graham.
Melania never was welcoming to Elon, she has great instincts.
Bye Felicia
it was nice knowing ya and being able to use your wallet for a bender
now hit the bricks!
I agree with Steve Bannon: H1B program is a scam.
Even JD Vance indicates to us that Americans can come out of the most austere situation and succeed!
America first Elon!
Vance evidently succeeded based on merit; the kind of merit schools were waiving for certain foreigners, and now they want to tell us we need to retain the DEI foreigners because Americans are lazy and raise our kids wrong.
The best thing Vance can do right now is keep on keeping quiet until PDJT speaks.
And he’s doing that. So far.
I’ve worked in tech since the mid 80’s. This debate has gone on along time. In the early 90’s the excuse was Americans weren’t trained to code etc so they had to get people from overseas. They just couldn’t find Americans to fill the positions. Now the excuse is Americans are too lazy and don’t want the jobs.
But the real reason is the H1B’s are cheap labor.
Example: In the early 90’s a corporation could bring in a person with a doctorate in computer science and basically pay him or a little above what a kid out of college was getting paid. I’m guessing the cost benefit analysis is still the same. It’s the same reason manufacturing went over seas. The corporations are looking to minimize costs. Labor is one way.
Remember at this time period the jobs were here and not India. I worked with one of these guys and he was sending money back home to his wife and kids. He basically took an entry level job here to feed his family and hope that he could one day bring them here.
Also, it’s cheaper to bring people here than to open an office in another country. Elon in his post said the quiet part out loud. He conducts business here because of H1B. Now alot of these companies that use H1B are mutinationals but a lot aren’t.
I personally believe in hiring the best and brightest but don’t give me the same BS you’ve been giving me since the 90’s that you can’t find Americans to fill the positions. You just don’t want to pay Americans.
SEND EVERYBODY HOME CANCEL THE H1-B PROGRAM PERMANENTLY TO HELL WITH INDIA AND SWAMIMAMI TOO
India is the “I” in BRICS.
Can only imagine how Barron feels having spent most of Thanksgiving day discussing space with Brutus.
Lesson learned !
They say this Raj Shaft is a bad mother…
(go F*ck your mouth with soap)
Can ya dig it.
Right on!
And sitting quietly in the wings, the proverbial camel with it’s nose under the tent, is a dude named Vance.
A couple of points.
First, the second paragraph is directly (“f” yourself in the face) and indirectly (metaphoric threats of war) from this scene from the comedy called Tropic Thunder.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/vgEmdOlkSAo
Second, the man Elon is responding to has this to say about him in the same thread
Steven Mackey
@stevenmackeyman
·
6h
Elon is objectively a genius and he is the single most productive human in the history of the species.
____
Finally, and most importantly, I don’t think Elon is coming at this entirely from a “defend H1b abuse” perspective, but rather from a defending himself and his ilk from a perceived personal attack, as well as defending the use of H1b to actually recruit geniuses who can then become American citizens. Or maybe it’s a little of both. I’ll be duly chagrined if I’m wrong. But I think the context of his post is very important since the style is very typical of how he normally posts. He.’s not a super serious guy.
H1b isn’t for recruiting geniuses and Elon knows that.
Yet, he’s a genius who came in only because of H1b. So he values it based on his personal experience. Two things can be true at the same time.
@Elon there is nothing you have that I need or really want. I like to be able to fill up in five minutes and travel 437 miles without a recharge. I do not need to fly to the moon because I really like to breath my own air. And last but not least I can communicate without having to worry about proper positions of hash tags. So eff your face and learn to code dim wit….
I agree about Tesla’s and the Moon, but everyone agrees about Hashtags. Especially Musk 😀
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
·
Aug 17, 2019
Hashtags are an abomination
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
·
Dec 17
Please stop using hashtags. The system doesn’t need them anymore and they look ugly.
Is Texas to become another Minnesota?
Already on its way.
A squillionaire sperg is never going to be the most stable guy on Earth, but what a ridiculously foolish outburst. Musk can take his Genghis Khan complex, his Teslas nobody wants to buy and his precious H1B slaves and make South Africa great again.
He didn’t get his own way, and he’s been called out on it, and he doesn’t like it one bit.
He would need an army to stay alive in SA. The #1 reason to leave was staying alive. The #1 reason to come here is always the same. The freedom to exploit any/everything.
I get the calls for unity, but it’s good this fracture came out now.
Auron MacIntyre on X: “Let’s make it official https://t.co/mPwSywRtry” / X
Coding can be done in India.
Imported coding can be tariffed, perhaps?
The hundreds of Indians Daimler Trucks North America employs are not doing simple coding. They are doing IT project management and configuration. The Germans are notorious for taking American companies over and then outsourcing the administrative jobs overseas and also outsourcing the parts suppliers out of America.
Simple coding seems like a good way for an intern to finance their college.
Yes. Any product made elsewhere can be tariffed; and the most abusable form of foreign product is people whose work product is directly performed for the host country.
When local labor costs X but foreign labor costs 1/4X a 300% tariff is absolutely reasonable; anything less just suppresses the local talent from pursuing that field. (The preceding numbers are both fictitious and *understate* the issue)
Currently Mushy is in a custody battle for his son X, this volatile instability does not help his case. The Judge; “well yes, you may love him today but what about tomorrow?”.
I think Nicole Shanahan brings up very good points here that most Americans do relate to. Changes toward immigration and the H-1B visas must reflect the values and best interest for American citizens first and foremost.
No one can accuse her of bias against immigrants.
Btw, Simplicius noted that Thiel / Palantir is a member of the Bilderbergs. Bilderbergs are the very core of evil globalists. Worse than being a WEFer.
Thiel connections to Bilderberg is really hard to overlook and to justify.
J.D. Vance works for them! not us !
Who pray tell is Simplicius?
I kept thinking that Elon Musk would take notice of the disaster in WNC and Eastern Tennessee and use his platform and wealth to help “fellow Americans” in desperate need. After all he claims to view “money” as a tool for higher purpose. Thing is he does not view us as “fellow Americans”. He has no deeply rooted love or loyalty for this country. That is the core problem of all these foreign opportunists that see the US as a place to loot and plunder. Other than the Starlink donation (for which I am sure he will charge people eventually) what did he do for the displaced and destroyed people there?
He did. Two examples:
SBP, the New Orleans–based national disaster recovery organization, has announced a $2.4 million grant from the Musk Foundation to support the immediate and long-term recovery needs among communities ravaged by Hurricane Helene across the Southeast.
https://www.sbpusa.org/blog/musk-foundation-donates-2-4-million-to-support-sbp/
Starlink aims to enable anyone impacted by a natural disaster to access internet connectivity. For those in areas affected by Hurricane Helene or Hurricane Milton, Starlink is available and temporarily offering free service until the end of the year. Please note: A Starlink kit is required to access this free service.
Hurricane Relief (Helene and Milton) – Starlink Help Center
2.4 million when he is worth 400 billion? A drop in the bucket! Or maybe he would rather see the people there be displaced and have access to the Lithium and other rare minerals? And a Starlink Kit is required to access free service.
The H-1B Immigration Debate: A Clash of Worlds and Values
https://news.gab.com/2024/12/the-h-1b-immigration-debate-a-clash-of-worlds-and-values/
*********************************************************************************
The debate surrounding H-1B visas and legal immigration has ignited a fiery discourse online this week, exposing a chasm that exists between two fundamentally different worldviews and value systems. The recently-turned-MAGA-five-minutes-ago corner of the Silicon Valley elite, men who champion the post-Enlightenment mindset that views nations as mere “corporations” or “sports teams,” find themselves at odds with a growing movement of American citizens that yearns for a deeper, more meaningful connection to their people, place, and God.
We are told by Elon Musk and his band of Silicon Valley foreigner friends that America must import more foreigners, “legally” of course, in order to win! “Winning” is not defined outside of making shareholder value go up and increasing the GDP or something. If your home is destroyed and turned into a third-world slum in the process of “winning,” well that’s just the cost of doing business. If you can’t afford to buy a home or start a family while foreigners live like kings when they return home and arbitrage our currency for their own, well that’s just a downside of “progress.”
These guys have been getting dragged in the comment sections for days on this topic by the American people who are sick and tired of being cast aside for foreign labor in our own country. In response, Elon and his friends have alluded to Americans being “lazy” “unskilled” and even “retarded.” After substantial pushback in the comment sections all over his own platform, Elon announced that the algorithm on X would be changing to combat this rising tide of dissent. X also started removing verification badges and locking out accounts that have been pushing back on the call for more “legal” replacement of our people. This has caused a flood of X users to join the Gab community in recent days and we welcome them with open arms to experience both freedom of speech and freedom of reach that our platform has to offer.
The Silicon Valley elite, blinded by their own intellectual arrogance and disconnected from the spiritual needs of the people, have proposed immigration policies that prioritize economic efficiency and their shareholder’s interests over the well-being of Americans and the integrity of our communities and culture. Their callous approach to immigration is a direct consequence of the spiritual vacancy that characterizes their post-Enlightenment worldview, which elevates materialism above all else.
These people have lost touch with the fundamental human need for belonging, purpose, and a sense of place. They have forgotten that mass legal migration, just as much as mass illegal migration, is not merely an economic transaction but a deeply personal and spiritual transaction that involves the uprooting of communities, the loss of cultural identity, and the undermining of American citizens.
The H-1B visa program, designed to facilitate the temporary employment of foreign workers in specialty occupations, has become a lightning rod for this clash of worlds and values. Proponents argue that it is essential for driving innovation, maintaining a competitive edge in the global marketplace, and filling skills gaps in the American workforce. Detractors, meanwhile, assert that the program undermines American workers, erodes the fabric of our communities, and prioritizes economic efficiency over the spiritual and cultural well-being of our nation. The reality about the H-1B is that is provides corporations with what are essentially indentured servants who work double the hours for half the cost and literally cannot quit or change jobs or they will be sent back home. How can Americans compete with that? They can’t, by design.
This debate is not merely a disagreement over policy, but a manifestation of the chasm that exists between those who have embraced the secular, materialistic worldview of the Enlightenment and those who yearn for a deeper, more meaningful connection to their people, place, and God. The Silicon Valley Sultans, who joined us only after it was evident that President Trump was going to win and it was extremely safe to do so, cannot be allowed to dictate the policy of the movement they joined five minutes ago. We don’t care how much money they donated; this movement is not the private sector, and they must understand that they work for and answer to the American people first and foremost, not their corporation’s shareholders.
These people have lost touch with the toil that goes into creating something real, something that will last, like our nation. They are unrooted from the soil and thus have no care for its fundamental destruction so long as they can profit from it. Corporations, websites, apps, and games come and go. Society is not built upon pixels; it is built upon the labor, love, and blood of hardworking men and women who pour their hearts into creating and building something real.
Let us not be blinded by their illusions. Let us instead turn our attention to the things that will outlast any pixel or algorithm. Let us build a better future, brick by brick, with our own two hands and with our own exceptional people. The potential for American greatness has never been higher and we do not need to look to talent pools in foreign nations in order to unlock that potential.
We must focus on constructing American manufacturing infrastructure, building hospitals that heal, homes that house, and upgrading our transportation systems to the 21st century. These are the things that will outlast any corporation, pixel, or algorithm and form the foundation of a truly great nation for decades to come.
The immigration debate is a reflection of the profound spiritual rot that permeates the post-Enlightenment mind of our so-called elites and, by extension, the broader society. We must return to the tangible and to the spiritual, to the things that truly matter. Let us not be blinded by the allure of economic efficiency and political expediency. Instead, let us turn our attention to the things and the people who will form the foundation of a truly great nation.
We must build a better future, brick by brick, with our own two hands and with our own exceptional people. The time has come for us to stand up and demand that our elected officials prioritize the well-being of Americans and the integrity of our communities and culture over the interests of multinational corporations and their shareholders. We will not stand by idly and watch the continued erosion of our country and undermining of our people in the name of the “winning” an increased GDP and shareholder value.
Our country is not a sports team. It is not a corporation. It is not an economic zone.
It is our home.
To God be the glory,
Andrew Torba
CEO, Gab.com
Christ is King
So well expressed my friend!! Praise God!!! Fight! Fight! Fight!
In June in this interview with the All-In podcast President Trump made it very clear that he is in favor of Student Visas and legalizing those who want to stay here.
(39:39) Border: Wall, immigration, H-1Bs, recruiting global talent
Video in here: https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2024/06/23/president-trump-policy-interview-with-all-in-podcast/
Yes he did and he just picked an AI guy who wants to raise the cap on H1b workers so that’s pretty much a done deal but we aren’t supposed to talk about it because we have more important issues or something.
Elon should take a big step back and musk himself in the face. 🙂
He’s not taking Tesla or SpaceX to any other country. We have the strongest property rights in the world and
as bad as our Tax and Regulatory policies are, they’re much better than the rest of world.
Elon is not going to war over visas, he’s going to war over the Price of Labor!
At least we still have a country to fight over. That’s more than Kamala would have given us.
Ah, so the DOGE main focus will be on eliminating bureaucrats and streamlining regulations to bring in MORE foreign job takers.
if the predictions are correct. AI will replace all technical “jobs”. leaving only manual labor and I presume even many of them will go to robot.
It is good to have this debate about foreign cheap labor..for precisely this reason:
people really just don’t get it what happens when AI is given fuel and political clout. nearly every kind of job you can imagine will evaporate…and not even indians will have them.
ironically, many people will exit stage left for the least modernized nation state to continue their own natural way of living.
it’s coming. the technocrats are not messing around…this is very real. it is just only a matter of time…I give it less than 10 years before we see a fundamental change in every single market in the US. The US will “lead” the world as it compete with China that is seriously challenging this new era of the robot.
God Bless America
The chyron on WarRoom just showed a headline indicating that Mexico has developed an app for people to use to warn friends/relatives if they believe they are about to be picked up by US Immigration authorities.
Getting rid of the invaders/unassimilables/grifters/parasites is going to be a heroic effort. If it truly happens.
For decades the top 1% like these tech holes have made a fortune while their foreigners have been in our schools sucking up funding WE not THE TECH HOLES pay for. Are they on welfare too? How much is the cheap labor for tech holes costing the American public?
Tech holes are greedy and they clearly have no affection for the hard working Americans who spend a fortune to get a STEM education.
I can’t be on the same side as these foreigners who only came here to take our country and replace us with foreign slaves.
Elon needs to get the fk out of America.
Yep the Tech Tyrants Billionaire class relies on the US taxpayer to fund the essential living requirements for their slaves. MUCK FUSK
Out of “fairness” we allow foreign workers to collect Social Security payments when they reach current eligibility age, as those deductions are taken from employers by the government from all workers in the US. So, how many quarters must a foreign worker work to become eligible for our nations Social Security payments. A few years ago, Howie Carr mentioned 16, versus 40 for American workers. Rather than an employer being charged to employ a H-1B worker, how about they contribute to Social Security as they do now with no expectation of receiving this benefit intended for US citizens?
Any discussion about continually putting American workers Last, must start with the Chamber of Commerce!
How the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Keeps Working People Poor and Destroys the Environment [August 2015]
…The Chamber of Commerce is a juggernaut in the American political system, and it doesn’t use that power to fight for policies that would benefit much of anyone besides the ultra-wealthy. That’s one takeaway from Alyssa Katz’s new book The Influence Machine: The U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the Corporate Capture of American Life, an enlightening history of the transformation of the organization from its roots as a central committee of business leaders proposed by President Taft to serve as his advisors to the electoral, legal and media mercenary that today protects some of the U.S.‘s most viciously destructive corporations from any government regulation. The book follows the Chamber down campaign trails, into courtrooms and out to its hundreds of worldwide outposts — and documents the heavy damage to international workers, consumers and the environment along the way…
https://inthesetimes.com/article/influence-machine-alyssa-katz-chamber-of-commerce-interview