The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day.
This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very influential sector of the political discourse begins a full-frontal attack against those who are pointing out how the tech community abuse H1B visas to replace American workers. In the background, of course, is the context of widespread immigration policy fraud being one of the priorities for the average Trump supporter.
The Silicon Valley team do not seem to review discussion of the H1B manipulation/fraud within the larger American economy as a problem, as long as the discussion of the visa fraud does not impact their business models. However, as soon as the H1B abuse started to be framed around Silicon Valley’s participation therein, the New Big Tech group take a nuclear war approach to defending their interests.
[SOURCE]
Having followed the immigration issue for a long time, yet specifically only having a big picture review of the H1B visa issues, it has been astounding to watch how Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks and the Silicon Valley supporters and influencers are responding to having the H1B visa fraud confronted. The self-interest in their defense is just astronomical to watch unfold.
Empowered by what can only be reasonably defined as their perceived influence over President Trump, the new-era Tech team are quite forcefully telling the MAGA base of Trump-supporting American workers that their concerns, views and perspectives are irrelevant.
It appears that most of the explosive sentiments revolve around H1B visas in the tech sector issued to Indian workers specifically. Apparently, the friendships, networks and teams attached to the sector of computer engineering carry with them an emotional component. I guess that should not be a surprise considering this is essentially a peer-to-peer wagon circling, in defense of the H1B visa problems in the tech sector.
As said before, it always appeared the MAGA alignment with Silicon Valley would not be an issue until the interests of the billionaire tech team came into conflict with the MAGA base. I did not anticipate the fracture being so fast, nor did I anticipate immigration would be the trigger. However, H1B visa issuance is apparently a key part of the Silicon Valley business model.
That said, several pragmatic aspects of the discussion are now being lost amid a very toxic shouting match that has begun. President Trump and JD Vance are, perhaps understandably, staying very quiet at the moment. However, that silence is soon to be impossible as both sides of a very divisive issue are going to eventually demand President Trump to weigh in.
I will try to cut through some of the toxic noise so that we can discuss the larger issues.
Theo Wold provides some context:
“I led the drafting of legislation in the Trump ‘45 White House to create a new legal immigration framework. I saw firsthand what happens when ANY visa reform is proposed: executives from the biggest multinationals and lobbyists from all kinds of industries are banging on the door, demanding to keep what they have.
What they have is a tangled morass of visa classes that are carve-outs, handouts, and special favors to particular industries, bought and paid for through decades of lobbying feckless members of Congress and presidential administrations. Industries lobby for the foreign workers they claim to “need,” and then they get a visa class carve-out, which they protect (and seek to expand) at all costs.
And there are enormous costs for our nation – costs that fall on the American worker with devastating consequences. The statistics bear that out: job gains go to foreign-born workers while American workers post net job losses.
I also know this firsthand because I grew up a working-class kid, watching my father (and by extension, our family) suffer from unfair foreign labor competition.
For too long, Americans have been largely unaware of the source of these problems because the policies are designed to be too complicated and are made largely invisible to public scrutiny. I’m glad the right is having an open debate about legal immigration. It is past time.
To be clear, the difference between O1Bs and H1Bs matters in this debate, for example, because these visas are intended to accomplish very different goals and are entirely different in scale, BUT both visa classes are rife with abuse. (Plenty of Reggaeton stars and anti-American athletes enter the U.S. on O-1 visas.) Essentially ALL visa classes are abused. Again, that’s because these things exist to serve special interests on one side of the labor market (and it’s not the side of the American worker).
The debate can’t be confined to a single industry – it’s about Big Tech, Big Ag, tourism and hospitality, transportation (airlines, trucking), the media & sports entertainment complex (yes, the NFL and MLB have their own special visa classes and their own special treatment by DHS and State) and many many others. They all want special visas to import cheap and convenient foreign labor. Even the roofing industry is now seeking its own special visa class. And all of these special classes get expanded over time, allowing the American worker to be flooded with foreign competitors for no reason other than labor savings for employers.
I, like many Americans, voted for a sealed border and an immigration moratorium. Americans need to retake control of our immigration system — how many are coming in, for what reasons, and for how long. One question absent from our current system: how does this individual immigrant benefit the American nation and her people? No more blanket exemptions or economic rationales. Immigration is a regime-based question, as both Hamilton and Jefferson wrote on extensively, and our system should reflect that Americans must also demand meaningful investment in assimilation and integration requirements for legal immigrants here already.’ (Source)
Within the debate, those who advocate for the H1B visa process are quick to call anyone a “racist” or “nativist” who stands against it. Within the tech industry the use of H1B is positioned as vital for their success.
As can be noted by the extreme position on the pro-H1B side of the discussion, they view this debate as a zero-sum contest. The position of Musk and the Silicon Valley tech group is that if the H1B process is stopped, American technological advancements will immediately cease to exist.
When it is pointed out that Silicon Valley discriminates against white Americans with engineering degrees and or skills, Silicon Valley shouts back the same arguments as the DEI promoters Musk claims to abhor. Musk and the tech group immediately use the Alinsky attack method (isolate, ridicule, marginalize) against anyone who speaks forcefully against their interests. The Musk allies and influencers then pile on. It is something remarkable to watch happen.
Years of Americans in various business sectors being forced to train their foreign replacements before the Americans are terminated from employment, underscore a very hardened stance against the H1B abuse. The decision by the Silicon Valley network to dismiss this problem because they want to sustain their current business operations is not going to end well unless some cooler heads immediately intercede.
Nicole Shanahan, Robert F Kennedy’s former running mate – and also a Silicon Valley network influencer, puts it this way:
“Having lived in Silicon Valley for 20+ years and founded and sold an AI company, I’ve seen firsthand how we rely on H-1B to fill grueling, unglamorous coding jobs. These jobs are essential, and we need capable people doing them. But the system needs an overhaul.
Here’s why:
To keep pace with global competitors like China and India, we need Americans ready to tackle the challenging jobs in these fields. We have them, but often our STEM grads turn their noses up at these entry-level, low-paying coding positions after investing in a costly education.
So why are immigrants from India, China, and elsewhere so eager for these jobs? It’s not because they’re glamorous or because these roles don’t exist back home. And definitely not because they offer high salaries. There’s something else driving this…
The undeniable proof that the United States is the single greatest nation on earth is that people from every corner of the globe dream of coming here—not to China or India—but America.
I take issue with some of the discourse I’ve read online today suggesting “lazy American culture” is the main driver for why we need to continue the H-1B program. Let’s be real: tech companies getting massive breaks on cheap labor at the expense of the American way of life is predatory.
Blaming our culture for why American STEM grads won’t take underpaying jobs is ridiculous and insulting.
The system we’ve constructed with H-1B visas, whether we like it or not, incentivizes people to come here and serve as essentially indentured servants for Big Tech, taking on the tough, grueling jobs that few here in America are excited to perform at the current suppressed salaries.
In return, if you’re good at your job, you’re then put on a fast track to get a Green Card, which means legal status and the chance to bring your family over through chain migration.
I’m reminded of this famous line by our second President, John Adams: “I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.”
Just because our kids have the “right” to chase artistic dreams like music and painting, doesn’t mean we should bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers to displace them in math-intensive careers. It’s a two-fold issue: both our education and immigration policies are broken. Instead of tackling these complex issues head-on, Big Tech monopolies and tech VCs are looking for the fastest way to outcompete globally and become industry giants. It’s paid off—look at the insane valuations of these companies!
We can’t entirely blame them for this approach—it’s been the industry norm for 40 years—but we can insist they seek out the tough, lasting solutions. No more temporary fixes.
I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
But, do I think removing the incentive of attaining legal status would reduce the volume of foreign applicants? Absolutely.
And, guess what? That might finally force Big Tech to look for workers right here at home (and pay them a competitive wage). Americans expect fair pay, which means these companies would have to start sharing their wealth rather than hoarding it.
Meritocracy is key to America’s greatness, but so are justice and fairness—we shouldn’t keep rewarding an industry that has curtailed free speech and American values. After Trump’s recent victory, the everyday worker feels empowered like never before. They won’t surrender that power, and frankly, it’s not right to imply they should.
There are numerous ways to improve our immigration system while safeguarding the American labor force (and I say “force” because it truly is capable, creative, and powerful).
Here are two straightforward steps to start the process:
1. Immigration policy must be designed to protect the American way of life and its workforce. Singapore’s work permit program, which they designed in the ’90s, was built from this standard and could provide good inspiration. They use a modern-day designation system to manage the influx of labor across various sectors.
⁃ Employers face levies (essentially fees that employers have to pay for each foreign worker they hire. It’s a way to manage the number of foreign workers coming in by making it more expensive to employ them, encouraging companies to also look for talent locally).
⁃ There are Dependency Ceilings, which essentially limit the number of foreign workers based on the local workforce—this is KEY.
⁃ They impose restrictions on the countries from which workers can come.
⁃ Permits are diversified across industries to ensure balance.
2. Special economic zones are amazing and can transform local tech job markets. Hiring locally is going to be critical for making sure Americans are taking key tech industry roles AND able to support their families.
If we really want to lift America to heights unseen in generations—not just talk about it, but actually do it—then we can’t continue to stick to outdated strategies that have harmed Americans. We owe it to ourselves and our communities to aim higher and do better.” (source)
As I watch this debate unfold, I find myself finally realizing why all the Silicon Valley tech people were such staunch Democrats. Their worldview does not: (1) seem to comprehend American Economic Nationalism as a priority; (2) seem to appreciate the importance of true liberty in the creation of the remarkable outcomes from American exceptionalism; and (#3) they appear to be inside a bubble of self-interest, unattached and unaffected by the economic issues that have seriously harmed the MAGA base.
In essence, the Silicon Valley network represented by Elon Musk team, does not connect in the same way to the important priorities of middle America. The technocrats are, well, Technocrats.
Watching this debate unfold is quite remarkable.
“The H-1B visa program is not the only way corporations save money by hiring foreign workers over Americans.
Our new video exposes the OPT program, which gives employers discounts for NOT hiring American workers:”
https://x.com/NumbersUSA/status/1872735548051472577
“fast track to get a Green Card, which means legal status and the chance to bring your family over through chain migration.”
Once ALL of those “family” members are imported over here they are promptly enrolled in every government subsidy they can get their hands on. So the corporations rake in huge profits from “cheap labor” at an exorbitant costs to the US taxpayers, including the white Americans that are essentially barred from working at those fancy tech institutions.
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Barred from working and from the many subsidies. I know a lot of working people who have never received anything but a tax bill, that are one flat tire away from homelessness.
Elon has completely exposed himself.
Vivek started this situation by blabbing..to think he wanted to be President..wow….why would he do this now? Seems stupid to me.
Although O1-B and H1-B abuse is bad, the problem is dwarfed by the mass illegal immigration problem. That was the Thing, and should have remained the Thing. Unfortunately, our attention has been diverted. We need the nascent and tenuous coalition between Big Tech and MAGA intact to resolve the Thing. The rest would follow and is easy by comparison.
The numbers do appear to bear out your premise.
Brave search replies that HB-1 visas total allowed per year (including extra 20K for advanced degrees) is 65,000.
That’s versus many millions of illegals per year, of course.
Kind of like the actual ratios in the covid psyop… Things that make you go hmm… 🤔
Thankfully with all the, er, lively discussion, good proposals for reform seem to be emerging.
Brave search is wrong. Its in the hundreds of thousands. Anons have found the official government H1-B website and posting screen-shots. Nearly all of the jobs are going for entry-level positions that are being denied to our kids graduating college. There are only a couple of areas where it appears they hired due to a legitimate specialized “best and brightest” need.
There’s talk of raising the cap.
Ick. But thanks for providing more good information.
By the way I misnumbered above – it’s 85,000 with the extra 20K included.
Still in the covid ratio ballpark.
Regarding the 65,000 HB-1 visa part of the comment. Didn’t they say it is serially and seriously abused? How do we know how many are being let in? Could it be hundreds of thousands?? Whose watching the watcher?
They are also importing these ‘temporary’ foreign workers to work in immigration and the system itself. Ripe for huge fraud.
I just posted another Revolver News article on page 6 of this thread that goes into the details on the abuse. Hit Next, it’s not that far down the page.
When I checked the government HB1 issuing site they said it was 85,000 total with 20,000 of those being for advanced degrees. But either way it doesn’t change what is going on.
We don’t need tech to solve illegal immigration.
This is a Thing too, and it is bigger than we thought, and we’ve been distracted by illegal immigration while this Thing has snowballed.
As a retired engineer I saw this issue first hand and my brilliant engineer son is having to live with it now. Between DEI wich has been with us for decades and H1b my son had to spend months trying to find work after 6 years in college. A proper engineering degree now days is no longer a 4 year degree because of the wide range of technologies that now exist. But his early salaries were below what plumbers and carpenters make. I personally witnessed being passed over promotion at a major aerospace company because they were “fast-tracking” women into engineering manager positions to appease the government. When I had a position on my staff for an experienced instrumentation engineer I was forced by management to hire a kid right out of college with mediocre grades because of the color of his skin and I had to deal with middle eastern born engineers in the company who were unimaginative and poorly educated who were paid less and weren’t even worth what they received.
You’re exactly correct. That’s the shiny object that the Left would love to have us focus on that could tear the MAGA movement apart. We cannot… we Must Not allow this to happen. We take our eye off the prize – Making America Great Again – at our peril.
I agree. This is an important issue, for sure, but we should be focused on kicking out 30,000,000 illegals. Can you imagine the benefits to this country if we did that? Especially housing prices, crime, etc.?
It’s good to know where the Tech Overlords’ leverage point is. They are incredibly WEAK based on their messaging alone, and they know it.
It’s fun to watch, but: illegals.
Stay focused, return to H1B once we’ve got train, truck, plane, and ship loads of illegals leaving.
Soooo, we cannot chew gum and walk at the same time?!
It’s all related to their globalist plan for America.
I bet we could do two things at the same time.
Icarus flew too close to the sun and died in the sea, much like one of Elon’s rockets.
Let he be the first passenger on his spaceship to Mars built by the people he is going all in for.
Put your money where your big mouth is.
Add one thing to the recommendations above; cancel birth right citizenship.
These people are intended never to have “rights.”
The destruction of the US seems to be the goal. Been that way for a long time now.
Giving birth is an elemental biological function.
Why should it confer a fictitious status?
The foreigner for whom the “Supreme Court” first conferred so-called “birthright citizenship” wound up moving back to his parent’s home nation in his adulthood.
The guy never was, never became, a true American in his heart.
Yes, abolish the absurd lawfare fiction called “birthright citizenship”.
Trump really has his work cut for him doesn’t he?
So many bad manners and so much ungratefulness on display from our Tech Nerd Lords. Nowhere on earth would the middle class citizenry have accommodated such rude guests. And guests they are, as the eventual products of GHWB’s “Thousand Points of Light” globalist claptrap rollout.
Let it all hang out Elon – tell us how you realllllly feel!
We are decades overdue thrashing out chain migration and birthright citizenship too, while we’re at it.
“ However, H1B visa issuance is apparently a key part of the Silicon Valley business model.” This. You eliminate H1B and companies fail.
Hospitality is noted…. Think of every major tourist destination in the US. No H1B results in no staff.
PDJT is offering them a 15% corporation tax instead of the usual democrat corporation tax of 40%. But they have to hire Americans. Somehow they all made billions of dollars at the 40% tax rate all while selling out the American worker and importing foreign slave workers.
The money that they save from when they paid 40% and then reduced down to 15% will more than compensate them for raising wages and working conditions AND hiring Americans.
It’s so easy. But they want 15% AND foreign slave wages.
In practice, the “corporate income tax” is shared between shareholders, employees, and consumers. It’s an economically faulty tax. Just transfer it to those respective parties!
I live in such a tourist area. We -used- to have small, family-owned businesses — hotels, restaurants, mini golf — you get it? Parents, kids, cousins, and their friends would work together to staff the business, then contribute heavily to the local economy the rest of the year. But then the big hotel and restaurant chains came in and hire using visa fraud instead of the local workforce, saved a $#!t-ton of money, and put all the Mom & Pop’s out of business. Worse, the corporate chains build self-contained “resorts” instead of hotels, so tourism dollars that used to be spread around to many small businesses now stay concentrated in corporate (far-off) hands.
Because of abuse with H2-B temporary workers and J1 student worker visas, the cost of living went up, wages did not, and young people can’t afford to stay here and start a family anymore because they have to compete with Jamal from Jamaica and Sergei from Serbia who get packed in 10 to a room provided by the employer. Over 60% of our population is now over the age of 58, and it gets worse every year.
Now with our deep blue governor declaring us a sanctuary state, they are ALSO giving ILLEGAL (not visa) workers drivers licenses and special status for work permits, and the workers at the grocery store don’t even speak English, at all. Nantucket booted the illegals off the island and sent them to OUR town!
The tech companies would just have to pay higher wages and have less profit. The horror, the horror…
this is not suprising to me
I’ve been saying it since all the kool kids joined up with Trump Jr.
I wonder what Mr. Gates got promised last night?
We don’t even know he was there. All PDJT said was that Kill-Bill asked to come.
Over and over again Nicole Shanahan proves herself far more than just a pretty face. I think her assessment is as good as any I have seen of the situation.
But did these tech oligarchs really think they could cozy up to President Trump and he would let them obviate the whole point of his campaign????
But he gave in to them during his first term, so… yeah, they thought so and they are right to think so this time because Trump is just _bluster_ and always has been!
Concern noted. 🙄
I’m sorry you can’t handle the real, hard truth about your boyfriend.
I am so impressed with Nicole as well. The more I hear what she says or sees the videos that she puts together and I get more impressed.
Yes.
After Trumps cryptic post about Gates coming to kiss the ring and Musk, where are you
This is not looking good amd I’m
Not smiling anymore
Never thought musk amd the Indian leading dodge was a good idea
Pie in the sky
I thought it would be a good use of Vivek’s skills, if he had proper guidance. I feared it could degenerate, but I never guessed that their association would morph into something else completely.
I wonder if any of them have ever had a real job.
I share your skepticism.
Cautiously optimistic but never got that warm and fuzzy feeling.
Hmmm. Elon’s referenced tweet is very much in-your-face aggressive. I’m surprised he would not show a bit more restraint, maturity. He will regret that tweet, I am sure. So, how will PDJT come down on the Tik-Tok debate? If Elon is going to weaponize ‘X’ then I’m betting Tik-Tok will be allowed to remain as is. (Damn funny that is, too.) Good that we’re having this fight now. And more so that PDJT and VPJDV are sitting back to see how this is going to play out before commenting.
Vance is Viks bff and his wife is his cousin and he has a child names after him
I have worked on the “grunt” side of the tech industry for over 50 years as a programmer, data base analyst, and manager. I have seen $100/hour contract jobs go to $25-$40/hour for the same job with the introduction of H1B Indians. There was a definite “caste” system in place with the superior Indians training and covering for the others. Superior meant better English skills and marginally better technical skills. The term “coder” actually covers an entire series of functions, each advanced as the person gets better and expands their skill. The old fashioned labels were programmer, programmer analyst, senior/lead programmer analyst. There was a parallel route as analysts but even the best of those had a background as “coders”.
I fell in love with programming in college many decades ago. The attraction was (and is) two fold. First is the ability to solve a problem using just your brain, turning the solution into code, and watching it work. The joy of producing something based on pure logic (your logic) is a blast. Second, few people outside an organization get to understand that organization better than a Programmer Analyst working with them to help them with their issues. It’s very fulfilling.
The problem is identifying people who WANT to be programmers. Quite frankly, in an effort to force programming processes to fit the glut of people hired as programmers who really aren’t, the entire process has been dumbed down. And not just for Indians. Many people who sell themselves as programmers shouldn’t be anywhere near the job. And the young people who might be really good at it won’t give it a second look as long as the job is defined for “grunt coders”.
The H1B process is very abused and needs to be addressed. It is in place solely as a money-saving effort by companies and leads to all the same immigration issues we’re seeing on our southern border, just in higher paying jobs. I understand Elon and friends desire to make a buck. But don’t lie about it being because you can’t find American programmers. We’re out here. You just don’t want to pay us.
Yes, as a contract tech writer, I see how much a job should pay but what the writer actually gets. Holly Molly. Tech writing has been decimated over legals.
Darn. My whole life has been under this burden.
Thanks for the definition of *coder* (had no clue), ie, *programmer* – that I get… 🙂
Well said. I keep seeing accounts like yours, from the inside, that make the issue plain as day, yet I still see people who are seemingly smart enough to know better, going off on tangents that only obscure the core issue at hand.
My own experience from way. way back in the day, and I am not in any way shape or form any kind of ‘tech’ person, was that programming appeared to be as much an art as a science.
You could teach the skills to almost anyone, like you can teach what the keys and pedals on a piano are for, but not everyone will be able to play a tune anyone would want to listen to.
You got it.
I would add that the experience can be a tad manic-depressive (speaking simply from my limited experience in scripting). squatybody is entirely correct that getting something created that actually works to do what you envisioned is joyful – I call it the ecstasy.
The agony is when it doesn’t and you scramble for hours on end figuring out why…
Both are totally addictive and great for brain exercise.
IIRC, Boeing Corporation used cheap, non-American programmers to develop the flight controls software on the 737-MAX.
Straight out of the gate, 2 737-MAX planes crashed, 346 people died.
Hire American – save lives.
I agree sir. I have been writing code since the late 80s and semi-retired earlier this year. Still doing occasional contract work. My coding was/is on the engineering side rather than IT, mostly in the areas of data acquisition and real time processing for medical instrumentation and wireless RF devices. I had to do significant code cleanup (or even throw it out and start over) for several Indian H1B workers. When some (even if then US citizens) made it into engineering management (or were immediately hired-in because a previous manager left), the team and project fell apart. The skilled US engineers that knew the product, the technology, and the company history were let go or resigned due to the managerial incompetence.
I have no problem working with new graduates or engineers and helping them start their careers and learn the “trade”, Indian or otherwise. But with so many of the H1Bs, they had drastically inflated resumes, questionable or unverifiable work history, and their code just plain sucked.
The Indian managers also bring the cast system with them…
https://www.brightworkresearch.com/how-indians-have-instituted-the-indian-caste-system-in-us-workplaces/
I acknowledge that many “programmers” and “engineers” coming out of the US education system the last decade or more are not nearly as good or committed as those who graduated decades ago. Just learn the latest cool scripting language, call yourself a “full stack developer”, and you’re hired. “I can do Python on a Raspberry Pi, turn some LEDs on and off, and read the state of a pushbutton switch. Hire me and I’ll write code for your mission critical back end.”
When they say immigrants do the jobs Americans are not willing to do, it really does explain the tech sector. Americans would never subject their fellow countrymen to the rampant privacy abuse/constitutional violations that are Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.
Have you ever discussed the location “services” on your iOS or Android device being tied to our credit card payment systems with a naive friend/family member/co-worker? Or discussed Facebook’s facial image recognition database that tracks people who don’t even hang a Facebook account? Americans are generally disgusted by these abuses and only the biggest Mammon whores would willingly build such systems.
Who seeded this Tech vs MAGA war on H1B visas?
Why so conveniently before PDJT is inaugurated?
It did not take long for the powers that be to create a rift in the movement. This was a subject to be explored after the new Administration was in place.
I myself worked in computer positions that were software related. One was with a company bought by a large American company who then bought a company in Pakistan. The result was a complete crew were brought in from Pakistan to be trained by the American employees and remain here.
This was a new phenomenon at the time. Now it is a way of American life.
Musk amd Vik stepped in it all by themselves
Occam’s razor principle:
The “smartest” newbie MAGAs around weren’t watching where they stepped and landed on a landmine and found themselves promoting foreigners over Americans.
Which is anathema to the MAGA / America First defined purpose of hiring Americans and building your plant and products in America.
Yes, they seeded it their own selves, and evidently Laura Loomer was involved because Musk demonetized her for it, so she says. Maybe this was their plan to bring the indentured servant/Unamerican nature of these so-called legal immigration systems to light. If so, good, because this is ridiculous; foreigners being held in servitude, foreigners in tech who have no problem with cancelling you and your free speech at the governments behest, screwing over American workers, etc…I mean this is very bad and dangerous stuff.
Ugh. Shades of what’s happening in our U.S. Military.
Because the initial tweet was by Laura Loomer that created the entire episode, my guess, if it wasn’t just her usual instigating for views move, is that someone in President Trump’s sphere wants this discussion now, before his inauguration so that once in office the ones who will actually be doing the work can focus on the work and not slanting it to protect their private fiefdoms.
Mr. Musk telling half of America to go F ourselves isn’t the boss move he thinks it is. Mr. Ramaswamy’s overt racism and bias against American citizens isn’t going to win him the accolades he thinks it is. Now we see what the crypto guy Sacks does. The ideas behind these tech men’s viewpoints, now in the open, are self-inflicted wounds that I actually believe that a very stable genius picked up on and wants aired before giving these people the keys to the kingdom.
This staff pick by President Trump was reacted to negatively, by Laura Loomer and U.S. Tech Workers, among others.
This man wants to increase the number of H1b workers.
Elon thought he had gotten away with sliding that one in, under the radar.
Hence, the extreme rage and stompy feet.
Hmm, so David Sacks is the one making the magic happen?
Is it possible that Elon has revealed the real mission of DOGE?
Doge was fun, but it’s over now, it seems. It is sad.
There is a body language analysis of Trump and Vivek Ramaswamy when Vivek endorsed Trump.
https://bombardsbodylanguage.com/2024/01/22/body-language-trump-ramaswamys-endorsement/
If you look at Trump, he has an unsmiling facial expression while Vivek is giving his endorsement speech. Trump only appears to smile briefly when Vivek is coming to the end of his speech. Vivek goes to shake his hand but Trump opens his arms but instead of an open man hug, he has his hand gripping Vivek’s shoulder in such a way as to communicate that he is in control of that body (i.e. Vivek’s) and that he can direct that body any way he wants.
What I took from that video analysis is that Trump knows exactly who Vivek is. Trump knows he’s a snake oil salesman and is MAGA only insofar as it meets his needs to be.
I believe Trump thinks it is important to have a certain amount of “buy in” from high tech into the MAGA movement, but I do not think Trump wants to destroy the MAGA movement by caving in to predators with predatory practices vis a vis the American people.
I also think it is possible that Trump knew that there would be a risk in bringing into the MAGA tent high tech billionaires. I believe he knew the risks very clearly and has anticipated what is happening now.
I guess it comes down to how much these billionaires value being part of the MAGA movement, vs. being for themselves and their businesses.
What we are seeing playing out is the core political problem in the West today: how much power and control should billionaire elites have over government? How much should their wealth determine their power over the people of the country?
There are billionaires who believe they have a right to dictate health policy in the US and the world as a whole. There are billionaires who believe they have a right to control the banking system and the US economy. ( The bankers at the Fed have done so since its inception). Now we see there are billionaires who believe they have a right to control immigration in such a way that it fits their business model.
.Elon Musk said this is why he came to the US: that there is the freedom in the US to build his business any way he wants.
Billionaires have been ejected from countries when their behavior threatens the security of the country. For example George Soros was ejected from both Hungary and Great Britain. So he came to the US thinking he could get away with his power grabs here, and so far he has been able to get away with murder by financing those who have brought chaos, crime, and devastation to many cities in the US. He has financed a good deal of electoral fraud.
I think the US should seriously consider ejecting billionaires who are incapable of understanding the harm they are doing to hard working Americans. True they would leave with their money and their businesses, but eventually other enterprising individuals would take their place.
We can’t have a secure country if billionaires by virtue of their wealth, believe they can control whole sectors of our economy or political life to the detriment of Americans.
We must get billionaires out of influencing electoral politics. One way to do this is that all candidates for President, for example, are given exactly the same amount of money for their campaigns (perhaps by government funding) and they are forbidden to use any other money for their campaigns. When money is taken out of the equation, the person who wins the competition will win due to the policies they plan to enact.
Similarly we must get billionaires out of positions of control of immigration. Any billionaire who threatens destruction if his business model isn’t accepted 100% should be ejected from this country.
Americans cannot maintain our liberty if we give our sovereignty over to billionaires who threaten destruction if they cannot get their way.
Musk has temporarily forgotten the real reason he came to the US: the liberty and justice for all Americans. He can either be a force for good for Americans or a force that is destructive of Americans. But if he chooses the latter, Americans must liberate him to build his businesses elsewhere.
Body language “experts” also said that Jeff Sessions was “on the level”….
💯 🎯
The comments here and elsewhere, I think have “liberated” him…
Musks X statement was very adult wasn’t it
Jesus man, grow the F up
You and little Indian are destroying Trump all be your ego selfs
Big head Musk
I worked many years in the IT field, retired now. The IT consultancy arena has been taken over by firms who bring “subject matter experts”, SMEs, in from India and other places, but mostly India in my experience. They in turn bring in their whole family. I get it, I would do the same thing. I had a conversation with one of the consultants one day after he returned from a trip to his home town in India and asked him if he enjoyed his visit. He said that he would never return to India. Back to the consultants. The team brought in outnumbered those of us who were from America in many cases. The reason for this was to have real world training for these new SMEs on the project from those of us on the project. I can only guess that the consultancy firm was charging a whole let less per SME for the team from India than our team from America. As we have seen the American SMEs have now been squeezed out due to monetary reasons?, DEI reasons?, quien sabe? I do know that many of my associates were truly experts in our areas and now many of them feel the pressure of constantly being out of a well paid consultancy due to the H1ers flowing into America.
“I, like many Americans, voted for a sealed border and an immigration moratorium.” – Theo Wold nailed it.
Sundance; Au Contraire, Mi Amigo, you are wrong as hell about the import of talent to the U.S. The common denominator of the visa “problem” you pose is MERITOCRACY. Industry should seek and acquire the most capable personnel available to perform the chores needed to produce the products they sell. I haven’t seen evidence of the “abuses” to which you allude.
Side note: This is a great essay. Thank you. Very informative. But I disagree.
“Cheap Labor” is not the issue. For instance, engineers (I have two engineering degrees from Texas A&M) are WAY underpaid, partly because they are lousy negotiators but mostly because they love the work and would do it for free.
The biggest issue is the “Dumbing Down of America”, an intentional act by OUR government. Who can blame companies for going where the talent is to recruit help?
“It’s a two-fold issue: both our education and immigration policies are broken.” Agreed.
Coding is not FUN? That’s the basis of how Elon Musk built his empire!
Elon’s anecdote does not have much to do with the situation we are facing.
MNN BREAKING…
BIDEN ADDRESSES YOUTH EMPLOYMENT CONTROVERSY
“You American kids should get jobs on the Board of Burisma like Hunter, confiscating the Energy Wealth of Donbas for the Oligarchy! Or get a cushy Naval Commission while transferring missile guidance systems to China on the side.
You’re all lazy!”
<chuckles>
Another often ignored aspect of the H1b program is that once the original visa holder receives a green card, they can start bringing over family members under the “chain migration” program.
I live in a tech heavy area and the entire demographic around me has completely changed in the past 10-20 years. Entire developments have been built on previously empty farm land and almost every house is sold to a family of Indian descent… And in almost every case, there are three generations living in the house – which means parents and in-laws – who never worked a day in this country but who are automatically eligible for SSI and Medicaid as “low income seniors”. If they each get 800-1000 a month, that adds up pretty quickly and is the main reason that housing in this area is now out of the reach of my kids and many of their friends, who were born and raised here!
Part of the “overhaul” of the Visa system must include the removal of ANY benefits, EVER, for any family members who join the original Visa holder! If they miss Grandma and Grandpa then they can go home or they can bear ALL expenses to care for them if they come here!
And President Trump MUST follow through on his promise to END birthright citizenship!!
I think I know where you live–I live in the same place!
Yeah, and me too! And, hey, over here. Me as well. And I have that same problem here. Imagine that? It’s happening EVERYWHERE!!!
It needs to stop. C’mon, America. It’s time to put our foot down and take back our Country.
As was said prior to this election, “If we don’t get it right this time – we’re done!”
Well said , thank you . The ” gimmies ” like convenience stores and motels has to stop . We will need more than DOGE’s analysis of money in / money out ; there has to be boots on the ground !
Just require them to return to their home, their nation, their culture, their language.
Don’t allow ANY option to stay here, i.e. pay own expenses or whatever.
Don’t let them buy their way in.
America is not for sale, IMHO.
I think that most, if not all, will return to their homeland IF they are told, as my in-laws were told when they LEGALLY immigrated in the late 1950s, that they would FOREVER be ineligible for ANY type of public assistance!
They paid all the fees, filled out all the forms, found a sponsor who agreed to be LEGALLY and FINANCIALLY responsible for them if they had any issues, AND they immediately set to learning English as soon as they arrived!
And the only time they ever saw their family or homeland again was when they spent their own hard earned money to go for a visit!
Old timer here & never realized how bad of a job coding was.beyond belief & i thought i have seen every episode of Mike Rowes ( dirty jobs)somehow missed the one where you sit in a cubicle in an air cond & heated room.
Well, as my grandmother used to say, “This is a fine how-do-you-do.”
Flipping the script…
“White people succeed because of white privilege” comments make anti white racism palatable, encouraged, and legal. That way POC can sneer at white people while they practice their racism.
“White people are lazy and stupid and that’s why they’re not successful” is to explain to down and out white people why they feel effed over and stomped upon. You see, it is the fault of white people culture that caused the demise of white people. This also lets POC confirm their suspicions that they are better than white people.
The gaslighting is phenomenal.
If you have ever been in an abusive relationship then you know that you cannot win any argument. They will blame you for any choice or decision that you make. It is always your fault.
Some abusive relationships cannot be corrected.
The abusers must be deported.
We The People know how to punish ; hurt’em in the wallet !
Bud Light them all.
I take it he’s not welcome at Mar-A-Lago anymore. He ingratiated himself into Trump’s close family quarters. He got too close now he must pay.
His grandchildren now read from the man they were calling uncle “go f**k yourself in the face” to someone who disagreed with him on X.
I’ve seen others say similar things, but here’s the reality: you all assume Trump thinks like you do, when you know nothing about the man, really.
True in one sense but not when it involves your blood, your children. Trump is a father and grandfather first, everything else is secondary.
A mistake was made bringing Musk into the family inner sanctum. That my friend is the undoing of a bond Musk threw away like trash.
Having worked for JPM i have been first hand witness to their h1b program is riddled with fraud. First, know this is all about making profits. So they farm out work to Argentina (3rd world country), as well as opening offices in India (3). They bring people over on the Visa dangling the green card which they never give with exceptional circumstances, then when their visa expires they are sent back to their country to continue working for the FIRM.
If Vivek is bitching about the American culture because it is broken the solution is not more \H1B, but to use DOGE to streamline the government that is destroying our education system. 1970’s USA no 1, now? 44th in the world since DOE was created, thats how you fix it. Democrats and Repubs have been destroying our culture. we want it back. not by H1B but by teaching our kids what excellence is all about
Excellent Sundance thank you
why does this rich clown foreigner
who is not even qualified to be elected Dog Catcher
have any say in our Government ??
He thinks being rich means he has every right, even though none of “his” wealth was ever HIS, but rather inherited from his parents, then swollen by money from the U.S. government (taxpayer). He’s nothing more than a professional spoiled brat and a leach. But, for some reason, so many _conservatives_ decided he was great. Go figure!
His usefulness to America First is limited to Twitter free speech restoration.
Well, and $$$ for Trump campaign.
Otherwise, he needs to just build rocket ships and stay quiet.
Such and excellent and informative piece!
Thank you!
Not sure I can do this well in short form, but “trickle down avarice” -to use one of 7 deadlies for extra credit- is a very real thing.
How many Americans were bothered, concerned or outraged at forced vaxxes but happily rode Big Pharma stocks up and up and up?
How many American retirement plans are anchored to this class of Technocrats being identified and exposed in the write up above?
It’s in the mirror folks. A lot of our problems are in the mirror.
God help us.
Homelessness has hit new highs. How about our gov going out and get these people jobs and medical help. Stop housing the illegals. No one allowed to sleep on
the streets.
there is not enough profit from those people except for maybe body parts
that is why the poor from around the world are more important!
They have President Trump basically talked into the erroneous idea that foreign students graduating from American universities are a valuable commodity we need to retain.
The same people who lament how poorly educated and lazy American college students have become are claiming the foreigners graduating from the same schools, taking the same courses, and even admitted under lesser standards, are the best and the brightest.
I can’t help but notice that schools around me have been admitting more and more and more Indians. These students may be hard-working and well brought up and extremely bright, but if you admit them ahead of white students, you put Indians at an advantage in the job marketplace.
Wonder if Trump got played with Vance, Vik, musk…
Doubtful
its how bad he got played is the 64 thousand dollar question
Fredo’s hand holds the Royal Flush.
Unfortunately, I’m afraid you nailed it…
The H1B visa abuse and scam is not limited to the tech sector. Thanks to Vivek and Elon’s arrogance people have gone searching for just how bad the abuse is and discovered that all sorts of industries are being affected. Check out the H1B salary database and the accounting and analyst abuse. The Streisand Effect is real.
https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=&job=&city=denver&year=2024
One significant difference. H1B immigrants actually pay taxes to help support our system.
Oh yeah, they also get food stamps, free taxpayer provided health care, free schooling for their children, birthright citizenship for the children born in America, they can claim children living in the homeland as a deduction on their tax returns, they get priority over Americans in hiring, free shuttle/bus service to work, and then live in neighborhoods that used to be occupied by Americans.
Yep, a big part of the exploitation of these people for slave wage is the fact that the American taxpayer subsidizes their living expenses. FYIYFF Elon Musk.
…but cost us tax money because we still have to support the Americans who lost their jobs to them. So, you know… stuff it, pal.
But less taxes than an American making a higher wage, right?
This.
I worked at a place that hired H1B workers and although I now forget the details the gist of what one of them explained to me is that the visa lasts for a few years and as the end approaches the worker gets laid off, “beach time”, and they have two or three months to find new employment or face deportation. Employers are aware of the deadline and abuse this, laying off workers only to re-hire them a few months later. They do this to keep workers as “new” employees and avoid pay increases.
It really is indentured servitude.
A LARGE health care provider in my midwestern state (My HC provider) and “in network” provider for a HC provider that “has been in the news lately” hires MANY H1 (worker) Bee’s….and guess what…??
They order LOTS OF CHARGEBLE tests and procedures….. typically arrogant, annoyed, and impersonal as THEY ARE DOCTORS and you are a dumb (usually fat) american…. yet THEY are reduced (and employed) to check boxes on forms for KNOWN BILLABLE items to generate money, in order feed the HC INSURER MONOPOLY in order to STAY HERE….instead of “practicing” medicine….they DO a have a Damocles Sword over their heads ….
it’s reminiscent of cops writing BS VOLUME tickets to generate “revenue” instead of practicing LE….
the ole
…. 🎶 We gotta install microwave ovens, custom kitchen delivereeeeee…..🎵 🙄😭
mindset, which FAILS EVERYONE.
The road construction companies and unions have similar tactics in place for when the weather is not conducive to building roads.
Quite the mask-off moment for the “maga” tech bros. Really calls into question their motivation and loyalties.
I also don’t get how MAGA is stupid and racist for not wanting infinity H1Bs? In what way does this make our country and citizens better in the long-run?
By the way Trump will cave. He did so during his first term. I remember when 2015-2016 Campaign Trump said, specifically, that he would end H1B abuses in the tech sector and that Americans would be hired again in tech jobs. But Sworn-In Trump quickly did the opposite, stating “we need the talent”. And you all here, on Conservative Outhouse, were all behind him for it because “He’s not Hillary, so there’s nothing to worry about!”. So you all will be this time, too.
a minority of people here have said it all along
they get bashed and called names when they do.
the hero worship and pretending are out of control.
everyone is lazy and they want someone else to do the dirty work
the only way it gets fixed is if everyone works together.
I had someone say to me yesterday that I was so right
about the idiots surrounding Trump
and they heard what I was saying but didn’t want to believe it because it wasn’t good
so they pretended by ignoring things.
Marquis, has this person insulted the treepers enough to get bounced ?
Maquis , sorry . Spell check again .
‘Alrighty, then!’
Michael Brendan Dougherty
@michaelbd
Hard to think of a more knubskull debate than what I’ve seen so far
H1B advocate: I’m for winning! America should cream the best talent, talent we don’t have here
Critic: Here are examples of employers using the program just to fire workers who have the right to quit and forcing them to retrain their H1B replacements, demonstrating that in fact the skills were here, the employer was just a rent seeker
H1B advocate: That’s beaide the point. Directionally I feel H1B programs are about free markets and innovation. We should be for expanding the program and assume that salutary reform will come from
somewhere.
Critic: But the H1B, is practically a high skilled indenture and Americans legally can’t renounce their rights to quit a job under pain of exile from America, so where’s the equal competition part of free markets? Wasn’t the Republican Party founded precisely to equalize labor competition?
H1B advocate: Stop. You are just racist against Indians and maybe even Austrian economists NationalistFalangistBadaguy.
https://x.com/michaelbd/status/1872832325118992518
restrict and revamp \1b, stop all asylum based immigration for a year. stop grants to universities, initiate 2 yer college skills programs, school choice in grade schools, force high school athelitcics costs as they were in the school system back in the 70’s. I have to pay 5 dollars a game to see my kid play a sport? really? When I pay for everything else including the damn field. DOGE needs to focus on things like this and we will have our country back and it wont be up to H|1B’s to make us successful
I don’t need a “debate” with parasites like Musk. He can get out yesterday. We’ll be fine. Just fine.
It’s good these leeches are exposing themselves early. Now we know, and can act. I’d love to sic a ferocious round of antitrust on these parasites, plus strip them of govt subsidies and no-bid contracts.
No gov subsidies for any corporations.
I recall DOGE was all about transparency but neither Elon or Vivek want the light to expose them.
Mark Krikorian
@MarkSKrikorian
·
5h
Opposition to H-1B used to be a politically salient issue only with the tech worker crowd — but after this week it’s become salient to a large number of people who’d never thought much about it before. Elon & Vivek kicked over a hornets nest they didn’t realize was there.
Messenger | Exile
@Aethelleas
You’ve been at this for a while.
We always knew it would catch up, but the public have been incredibly obstinate.
This was quite the surprising turn, wasn’t it?
The smell of the Oligarch’s drunken raging breath triggered the realization not just of what was to come – but what in Hell has been going on, after all.
Now to get the lightning into the bottle.
Godspeed.
https://x.com/Aethelleas/status/1872947929859887336
Why is trump silent on this. Silence equates to consent. What’s the saying fool me once…. Trump is swamp. The con game continues. Hope? Not on my horizon
Why not do something like the GI Bill whereby any American who learns how to code via an US Coding Certification Program and does it for say 4 years gets free 4 year tuition at any state University?
Incent young Americans to learn a trade / skill while also providing a path to higher ed as they grow and find themselves.
It is a good start. But there are plenty of careers that do not require going to a 4 year college/university.
Plumbers, electricians, paralegals, dental hygienists, real estate agents, beauticians and more merely require specific schooling, a license, and then an entry level job.
Four years of higher schooling will keep many people out because they need a job THIS YEAR, they have children to raise, or they are not 18 to 22 years old and want to hang out at the college.
Thanks Sundance. We can now snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Define victory.
Elon defines it as open borders and America Last by other means.
He also defines it with the Surveillance State he helped spawn.
Victory? Like this…?
Some facts about India’s wonderful education system…
School leaving age: 14
Adult literacy rate: 76%
Education Index: 0.55
Average IQ: 77
Some facts about the HORRIBLE education system of the USA…
School leaving age: 18
Adult literacy rate: 99%
Education Index: 0.90
Average IQ: 97
Some points on India’s superior culture…
Best transportation system: NO
Best roads and bridges: NO
Best sewer systems: YES /sarc
Most Nobel Prizes per capita: NO (13/1.4 billion) (USA: 420/330 million)
Cannibalism: YES
Caste system: YES
Mediocre Human Development Index: YES (approx. 65/100)
If having more people from India is victory, I’ll gladly pass, thank you very much!
Good thoughts:
https://news.gab.com/2024/12/the-h-1b-immigration-debate-a-clash-of-worlds-and-values/
That was an excellent read. Thank you for posting it. Glad I joined Gab yesterday.
200 c0mpanies with most visa employees and annual salary
https://www.myvisajobs.com/reports/h1b/