The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day.
This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very influential sector of the political discourse begins a full-frontal attack against those who are pointing out how the tech community abuse H1B visas to replace American workers. In the background, of course, is the context of widespread immigration policy fraud being one of the priorities for the average Trump supporter.
The Silicon Valley team do not seem to review discussion of the H1B manipulation/fraud within the larger American economy as a problem, as long as the discussion of the visa fraud does not impact their business models. However, as soon as the H1B abuse started to be framed around Silicon Valley’s participation therein, the New Big Tech group take a nuclear war approach to defending their interests.
[SOURCE]
Having followed the immigration issue for a long time, yet specifically only having a big picture review of the H1B visa issues, it has been astounding to watch how Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks and the Silicon Valley supporters and influencers are responding to having the H1B visa fraud confronted. The self-interest in their defense is just astronomical to watch unfold.
Empowered by what can only be reasonably defined as their perceived influence over President Trump, the new-era Tech team are quite forcefully telling the MAGA base of Trump-supporting American workers that their concerns, views and perspectives are irrelevant.
It appears that most of the explosive sentiments revolve around H1B visas in the tech sector issued to Indian workers specifically. Apparently, the friendships, networks and teams attached to the sector of computer engineering carry with them an emotional component. I guess that should not be a surprise considering this is essentially a peer-to-peer wagon circling, in defense of the H1B visa problems in the tech sector.
As said before, it always appeared the MAGA alignment with Silicon Valley would not be an issue until the interests of the billionaire tech team came into conflict with the MAGA base. I did not anticipate the fracture being so fast, nor did I anticipate immigration would be the trigger. However, H1B visa issuance is apparently a key part of the Silicon Valley business model.
That said, several pragmatic aspects of the discussion are now being lost amid a very toxic shouting match that has begun. President Trump and JD Vance are, perhaps understandably, staying very quiet at the moment. However, that silence is soon to be impossible as both sides of a very divisive issue are going to eventually demand President Trump to weigh in.
I will try to cut through some of the toxic noise so that we can discuss the larger issues.
Theo Wold provides some context:
“I led the drafting of legislation in the Trump ‘45 White House to create a new legal immigration framework. I saw firsthand what happens when ANY visa reform is proposed: executives from the biggest multinationals and lobbyists from all kinds of industries are banging on the door, demanding to keep what they have.
What they have is a tangled morass of visa classes that are carve-outs, handouts, and special favors to particular industries, bought and paid for through decades of lobbying feckless members of Congress and presidential administrations. Industries lobby for the foreign workers they claim to “need,” and then they get a visa class carve-out, which they protect (and seek to expand) at all costs.
And there are enormous costs for our nation – costs that fall on the American worker with devastating consequences. The statistics bear that out: job gains go to foreign-born workers while American workers post net job losses.
I also know this firsthand because I grew up a working-class kid, watching my father (and by extension, our family) suffer from unfair foreign labor competition.
For too long, Americans have been largely unaware of the source of these problems because the policies are designed to be too complicated and are made largely invisible to public scrutiny. I’m glad the right is having an open debate about legal immigration. It is past time.
To be clear, the difference between O1Bs and H1Bs matters in this debate, for example, because these visas are intended to accomplish very different goals and are entirely different in scale, BUT both visa classes are rife with abuse. (Plenty of Reggaeton stars and anti-American athletes enter the U.S. on O-1 visas.) Essentially ALL visa classes are abused. Again, that’s because these things exist to serve special interests on one side of the labor market (and it’s not the side of the American worker).
The debate can’t be confined to a single industry – it’s about Big Tech, Big Ag, tourism and hospitality, transportation (airlines, trucking), the media & sports entertainment complex (yes, the NFL and MLB have their own special visa classes and their own special treatment by DHS and State) and many many others. They all want special visas to import cheap and convenient foreign labor. Even the roofing industry is now seeking its own special visa class. And all of these special classes get expanded over time, allowing the American worker to be flooded with foreign competitors for no reason other than labor savings for employers.
I, like many Americans, voted for a sealed border and an immigration moratorium. Americans need to retake control of our immigration system — how many are coming in, for what reasons, and for how long. One question absent from our current system: how does this individual immigrant benefit the American nation and her people? No more blanket exemptions or economic rationales. Immigration is a regime-based question, as both Hamilton and Jefferson wrote on extensively, and our system should reflect that Americans must also demand meaningful investment in assimilation and integration requirements for legal immigrants here already.’ (Source)
Within the debate, those who advocate for the H1B visa process are quick to call anyone a “racist” or “nativist” who stands against it. Within the tech industry the use of H1B is positioned as vital for their success.
As can be noted by the extreme position on the pro-H1B side of the discussion, they view this debate as a zero-sum contest. The position of Musk and the Silicon Valley tech group is that if the H1B process is stopped, American technological advancements will immediately cease to exist.
When it is pointed out that Silicon Valley discriminates against white Americans with engineering degrees and or skills, Silicon Valley shouts back the same arguments as the DEI promoters Musk claims to abhor. Musk and the tech group immediately use the Alinsky attack method (isolate, ridicule, marginalize) against anyone who speaks forcefully against their interests. The Musk allies and influencers then pile on. It is something remarkable to watch happen.
Years of Americans in various business sectors being forced to train their foreign replacements before the Americans are terminated from employment, underscore a very hardened stance against the H1B abuse. The decision by the Silicon Valley network to dismiss this problem because they want to sustain their current business operations is not going to end well unless some cooler heads immediately intercede.
Nicole Shanahan, Robert F Kennedy’s former running mate – and also a Silicon Valley network influencer, puts it this way:
“Having lived in Silicon Valley for 20+ years and founded and sold an AI company, I’ve seen firsthand how we rely on H-1B to fill grueling, unglamorous coding jobs. These jobs are essential, and we need capable people doing them. But the system needs an overhaul.
Here’s why:
To keep pace with global competitors like China and India, we need Americans ready to tackle the challenging jobs in these fields. We have them, but often our STEM grads turn their noses up at these entry-level, low-paying coding positions after investing in a costly education.
So why are immigrants from India, China, and elsewhere so eager for these jobs? It’s not because they’re glamorous or because these roles don’t exist back home. And definitely not because they offer high salaries. There’s something else driving this…
The undeniable proof that the United States is the single greatest nation on earth is that people from every corner of the globe dream of coming here—not to China or India—but America.
I take issue with some of the discourse I’ve read online today suggesting “lazy American culture” is the main driver for why we need to continue the H-1B program. Let’s be real: tech companies getting massive breaks on cheap labor at the expense of the American way of life is predatory.
Blaming our culture for why American STEM grads won’t take underpaying jobs is ridiculous and insulting.
The system we’ve constructed with H-1B visas, whether we like it or not, incentivizes people to come here and serve as essentially indentured servants for Big Tech, taking on the tough, grueling jobs that few here in America are excited to perform at the current suppressed salaries.
In return, if you’re good at your job, you’re then put on a fast track to get a Green Card, which means legal status and the chance to bring your family over through chain migration.
I’m reminded of this famous line by our second President, John Adams: “I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.”
Just because our kids have the “right” to chase artistic dreams like music and painting, doesn’t mean we should bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers to displace them in math-intensive careers. It’s a two-fold issue: both our education and immigration policies are broken. Instead of tackling these complex issues head-on, Big Tech monopolies and tech VCs are looking for the fastest way to outcompete globally and become industry giants. It’s paid off—look at the insane valuations of these companies!
We can’t entirely blame them for this approach—it’s been the industry norm for 40 years—but we can insist they seek out the tough, lasting solutions. No more temporary fixes.
I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
But, do I think removing the incentive of attaining legal status would reduce the volume of foreign applicants? Absolutely.
And, guess what? That might finally force Big Tech to look for workers right here at home (and pay them a competitive wage). Americans expect fair pay, which means these companies would have to start sharing their wealth rather than hoarding it.
Meritocracy is key to America’s greatness, but so are justice and fairness—we shouldn’t keep rewarding an industry that has curtailed free speech and American values. After Trump’s recent victory, the everyday worker feels empowered like never before. They won’t surrender that power, and frankly, it’s not right to imply they should.
There are numerous ways to improve our immigration system while safeguarding the American labor force (and I say “force” because it truly is capable, creative, and powerful).
Here are two straightforward steps to start the process:
1. Immigration policy must be designed to protect the American way of life and its workforce. Singapore’s work permit program, which they designed in the ’90s, was built from this standard and could provide good inspiration. They use a modern-day designation system to manage the influx of labor across various sectors.
⁃ Employers face levies (essentially fees that employers have to pay for each foreign worker they hire. It’s a way to manage the number of foreign workers coming in by making it more expensive to employ them, encouraging companies to also look for talent locally).
⁃ There are Dependency Ceilings, which essentially limit the number of foreign workers based on the local workforce—this is KEY.
⁃ They impose restrictions on the countries from which workers can come.
⁃ Permits are diversified across industries to ensure balance.
2. Special economic zones are amazing and can transform local tech job markets. Hiring locally is going to be critical for making sure Americans are taking key tech industry roles AND able to support their families.
If we really want to lift America to heights unseen in generations—not just talk about it, but actually do it—then we can’t continue to stick to outdated strategies that have harmed Americans. We owe it to ourselves and our communities to aim higher and do better.” (source)
As I watch this debate unfold, I find myself finally realizing why all the Silicon Valley tech people were such staunch Democrats. Their worldview does not: (1) seem to comprehend American Economic Nationalism as a priority; (2) seem to appreciate the importance of true liberty in the creation of the remarkable outcomes from American exceptionalism; and (#3) they appear to be inside a bubble of self-interest, unattached and unaffected by the economic issues that have seriously harmed the MAGA base.
In essence, the Silicon Valley network represented by Elon Musk team, does not connect in the same way to the important priorities of middle America. The technocrats are, well, Technocrats.
Watching this debate unfold is quite remarkable.
The Tech lords want to build their empire in the USA and have unfettered access to our market. Yet they demand that American workers go to the end of the line for jobs. That would be the same Tech lords who have also had their businesses subsidized with taxpayer money. It is they who can piss off.
I do believe it is already built!
Exactly
It isn’t just the dull, coding jobs Americans are not being hired for. I know this for a fact, from a close relative’s experiences working for Boeing.
I’m tired of hearing that we are anti-immigrant or a new one, anti-Indian if we object to this scam.
Exactly! My grandparents migrated to Los Angeles County from Germany in 1885. Became homesteaders. Now called homeless. Made their own way! They had 9 kids to work the farm and survive. Built the first church in the area. I could go on and on! Another day maybe!
Gracias Dios
JMO.
For centuries, Americans have had “engineers” of every shape, size, color and degree level.
They successfully built HUGE bridges, damns and skyscrapers and sent Americans to the moon and back and successfully fought and won two World Wars across the span of two oceans.
Those American engineers of yore have achieved much more for America than any of the heralded nerds of the past 3 decades whose main accomplishment has been the creation of some cute “social media” app that was a resource hog and required the unconstitutional traitors in the federal government to steal the taxpayers $$ to support their very inefficient digital infrastructure.
It just so happens that it is in those same past 3 decades when the globalist, nouveau riche settled in California and initiated the first wave of non-agriculture replacements for Americans. These non-agriculture replacements started mainly from India but also came from the far eastern countries.
The globalist, nouveau riche of the so-called silicon-valley became very political savvy, but fell short when it came to understanding and loving America’s Constitutional Republic and its Constitution.
It isn’t a coincidence that the weaponization of the federal government started about 3 decades ago.
The first wave of imported “nerds” had no love for America and never bothered to learn the freedoms and liberties engrained in our Constitutional Republic so it didn’t bother them to build systems their globalist / communist employers wanted that trampled on American’s rights and freedoms.
The “seed $$$$” for many of the startup companies headed by the globalist, nouveau riche of California no doubt came from the federal government’s treasonous, intelligence agencies themselves or their cutouts.
Americans don’t need no seemingly unthankful, newbie MAGAs telling the hardcore MAGAs about the ills of our Constitutional Republic. We just fought an 8 year battle to correct the recognized ills. We know the problems, and hiring foreigners has never been part of the solutions.
“the weaponization of the federal government started about 3 decades ago. “. . .
Your off a couple of decades
Check for a
paper clip
In your history book
. . . . . . .
And
If your wondering about the Indian “relationships”
Look into the
Ahnenerbe
And
Tibet
Post Script:
The Billionaires hold the field
That’s already in motion
If one doesn’t like
Musk and Vivek
Well. . . .
Your for sure not gonna like their enemies
President Trump
Knows far more than all of us posters combined
And sometimes one’s best options
Are the best
Of
The worst
Take the fruit with the brown spot
Or the cheese with the mold
Cut off the part one can eat
It’s a battle for the planet
And
The battle field is gray
With the fog of war
Wow Chris,
It is clear you have read and remembered many of Benjamin Franklin’s truisms.
Here is one from President Trump that trumps them all:
Make America Great Again / America First ……. means hiring Americans and building your plants and products in the USA!
The oligarchy has built in the USA but they have every intention of keeping their foreign slaves.
There’s another CW building. How it has/will continue manifest is open to debate. The oligarchs won’t literally fight it but their slaves surely are/will.
@Cactus
Thank you for your original post
And your reply
Made in America
By Americans
Americans
Originate the world over
Not in genetics
But in ideals and liberty
The core issue in this clouded debate
appears to be patents, and intellectual property
In the current US**
financial structure
(** Not America the bankrupt Republic)
The creditor holds the controlling interest
If the originator
Of the Technology
Wants to use “developers”
from their “sponsors”*
(Creditors_ Indian Private Equity)
As opposed. . .
to
The Creditors. . .
Of the US °°
(°° IMF, City of London, EU, CCP)
So as to protect ones
“Capital” . . .
One will do so
_________
Just as when one Auto Manufacturer acquired controlling interest in another
To acquire access to patents
Then divests the smaller manufacturing entity and it’s agregates
_________
Keys to the debate
Comprehend:
Signal vs Noise
The Noise is the H1b debate
The signal is
We will protect our enterprise from
Hostile Corporate Overtures
These comms (noise) are “public”
But this contest is between the billionaire titans
The gray hats
(Which President Trump is. . .
A “blue collar” Billionaire”)
Are Nationalists
In America, Europe,South and Central America
The CENTRAL BANKS
And
Their “Intel” Agencies are fomenting this public debate
To fracture the Nationalists momentum
As they have since Bretton Woods
And the. . .
” ” Cold War ” ”
It’s only a Republic
If we can keep it
And first
We need to escape the fiduciary malfeasance
Of our trustees and board of governors
________
Sincere Thanks for your time
And
Request your thoughts
The perfect is the enemy of the good.
But sometimes lines have to be drawn.
“about 3 decades ago. “. . .
Your off a couple of decades”
Thanks for the comment Chris Tulmeth,
You missed the “about”.
Have a great MAGA DAY!
If about is 3-8 decades?
Which start are you referring to
The 90’s
I’m referring most recently to the 50’s
But also
1917
And
1871
I’d say you have an awful lot of truth backing up your opinion, Cactus.
Well said.
“You knew I was a snake when you took me in.”
From hero to zero in the blink of an eye.
JD Vance seems to be slipping through the cracks here.
He is a lot more Musk and Vivek than he is Trump.
His Christmas family portrait tells it all.
Never mind that I hear his wife is Vivek’s cousin.
Looks like we might be holding a bag of spoiled goods.
Vance’s wife is of no relation to Vivek. We now have bigger problems
They may not be, but they are extremely close from at least Yale if not before.
Close enough that JD and Usha named one of their children Vivek.
More there than we know.
Level the playing field for the cheap labor argument vs “they are really smart and industrious”: Allow H1B BUT have companies pay a federal fee for each one that makes total compensation equal to domestic individual compensation.
How does that help the American citizen who can’t get a job?
It’s a disincentive for H1B abuse as clarified by Wyoming Treeper below. If properly set (so that the cost is 25% MORE than that for American talent and in perpetuity) it is a considerable disincentive.
How it could help would be to take the job tariff (my naming) and use it to create economic zones, entrepreneurial opportunities, and jobs for the American citizens in need.
This is a great stopgap to move off H1B as it would eliminate the savings excuse and really make it about “we can’t find anyone else”It would also align the actual H1B employees with our argument.
Unfortunate comments from both Musk and VR. Makes one wonder if they are up for the job.
That they were talking about it at all, at the same time, makes me wonder too.
Yes, they have a right to an opinion, but the two of them together, talking about the same thing, and that thing is outside the purview of their new job, does make me think there is a hidden agenda at work.
The 13th Amendment was never worth the vellum it was written on. Both agricultural slavery and indentured servitude are rampant. The “sponsorship” requirement is a literal and explicit indenture. “The people who pick our avocados” live in daily fear of the Federales, and are slaves. They will never be offered citizenship, nor basic human rights. Never.
But, “there’s money in it.” The dark side of capitalism has always been this way. It always wants “workers who can’t refuse.” And citizens, and courts, who will look the other way. It can easily find both. 💰
Mind you, this has been the truth throughout all of recorded history. It is pointless to deny it.
Mike those who do those jobs do so because they choose to do it. If you choose to work as slave price then don’t expect to get your money’s worth. Only when you choose more will you get more.
Pragmatically speaking, they are agricultural slaves. And, the “H1B” folks are told that “this is opportunity,” but never offered anything else. That’s what the 13th was supposed to(!) outlaw. But, never did.
Elon’s violent & disgusting rhetoric points directly to his self interest. A self interest that he cannot defend with logic, facts & debate.
His own history as a gubmint welfare queen would necessarily become public knowledge & thus ridicule follows. He & his fellow travelers cannot defend their positions & they epitomize Obumbler’s “you didn’t build that” because technically, they didn’t. The US gubmint did. Their fragile egos cannot survive a confrontation with the facts nor the inevitable confrontation with their subservience to gubmint dictates.
We will see if Trump is up to taking on musk and the indian
Has it been reposted?
So amazing that Vivek and his “America First” attitude was exposed. People were all in on Vivek being VP but his arrogance has been exposed. If he continues down this road without learning a lesson from Main Street/Maga his political career is over – at least from a Maga support perspective.
Interesting how free speech is dumped hard when you don’t agree with them. No discussion – gone. Watching this on X was like watching a balloon deflate fast. Some of Elon and Vivek’s biggest and earliest supporters. Deplatformed.
VR never had a political career & frankly who Astroturfed his popularity for VP?
Did you see how high Vivek polled as a candidate? He does not pull any weight.
Vivek is not a “natural born citizen” per the Constitution. The fact that he knew that and ran anyway was all the proof one needed that he was emphatically NOT America First in terms of his respect – or lack thereof – of our Constitution.
Vivek was sprouting off about H-1B visas during the primary and that was a huge red flag.
Vivek is an anchor baby, never eligible to be VP or P.
Period!
“Interesting how free speech is dumped hard when you don’t agree with them.”
They act EXACTLY like what they truly are…totalitarian punks.
One of the most powerful analysis ever. This one goes to the heart of what is the future. Tech.
We should not be surprised that Tech and the Visa system are broken also. And this corruption is spreading into every industry sector.
How do you quit smoking or drinking? You quit. We need to stop this immigration that destroys the country.
In the old days, companies would train workers themselves. You trained them in the jobs they were going to do and the culture of your company. The goal was to have people believe in the company and themselves. Success is a two way street.
Now success is one way. Musk etal cannot compete without destroying America. Trump is going to have a lot of work to overcome everything. It is a Big Club and the American People are Not In It. Trump has to break the club.
One reason some major companies quit doing their own training was that do-gooders didn’t like them using aptitude tests for entry into their traineeships.
Not that business wasn’t happy to hand off training to the government, in many instances, it helped feed the Higher Ed racket, but if someone was taking you to court for discrimination every time you turned around, you might make a four-year degree a requirement too.
I figure if Musk can post vile language like that, he won’t mind a short bio of his children’s mothers.
https://traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/R005_Mus.htm
Mr. Musk will do well to remember that he is not our president. Mr. Bannon is right to have kept an eye on him.
Reminder: Tesla has never actually made any money. He (Elon) and his lobbyists have bribed the Congress in order to extort companies like GM, Mopar, and Ford in giving Tesla “Carbon Credits.” Tesla, through their Rent Seeking, makes billions of dollars every year. In order to actually sell his digital device on wheels, Musk has to sell each of them at a massive loss because nobody would actually be able to afford one of his Tesla’s if he needed to break even on them. (This doesn’t even get into the fraud that is the made up MPGe junk.)
Vivek’s sole business “accomplishment” consists of manufacturing a deadly Genetic Jab Bio-Weapon with a government contract from the Mad Science Bond Villains at DARPA, marketed to a captive government-coerced and/or propagandized customer base.
But he can quote the Founders!
And he paid his mom to say “its fine”.
Bingo! Musk is the most successful “welfare” queen in modern history. He is one of the largest government contractors in the US. Remember the “hyperloop” government funded and failed. He merged his solar company into his battery company to bury losses. We should demand a forensic analysis of the US Intel community’s involvement in Musk’s “entrepreneurial miracle”.
Well said, as usual.
Thank you.
I have been watching this unfold, it is not surprising really.
Given the megalomania of both I agree.
Our success is our undoing. Every damned time. Idiots on our side smell blood and go into a feeding frenzy. Bunch of idiots. How stupid do you have to be to knife a new ally as you make camp and chat. Correct the transgression. Have a third digit on that silly thing called IQ. The thing above your neck is not a hat stand. Use it.
The 0.001% belong to us. We provide the best environment for them. Anyone not bringing orders of magnitude more return should and must not qualify. Simple. Like abortion. Don’t kill babies. Simple. Don’t import workers, import talent that grows worker space domestically.
js: “Musk and Ramaswamy, whether they intended to do so or not, are making President Trump choose between them and his base. He’s going to have to weigh in, and soon, else his silence becomes his choice.”
Exactly. And let’s hope PDJT is listening to Peter Navarro and Steve Bannon and not to Don Junior.
“I will go to war on this issue THE LIKES OF WHICH YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY COMPREHEND”.
This sounds like “submit or die, stupid peasant”.
Americans really don’t like being told that. It’s a mask-slip moment for Musk he will live to regret, his image is permanently tarnished by it.
Trump might want to privately threaten Elon and company with Elizabeth Warren’s “unrealized profit tax” if they don’t calm down.
We’re seeing evidence that when a “genius” cannot make a cogent argument he resorts to stamping his feet, cussing & threatening the hand that clothes him.
He’s a toddler in an adult body with enough 💰💰💰 to do real damage.
Was thinking the same. His next public appearance will be very enlightening.
Yes it will
OK Sundance….so why now? We are on the cusp of not having Trump installed as PRESIDENT. Perhaps you are having second thoughts about Kamala????
We have big issues with House of Representatives.
This mess has been brewing for years and you find it important to bring it front and center today, this week and keep it front and center.
Yes, I do not like what I read but first things first.
?
I may be mistaken but I think Elon and Vivek are responsible for bringing this front and center at this time with their comments.
This is an issue very near and dear to me and my family. I personally am all for the public debate, it is long overdue.
I’m just saying that the Socialists Democrats are looking for anything to strangle hold Trump from being sworn in as President. Remember Pence!
They can look all they want. One doesn’t ignore or accept abominations or grab ones ankles and beg just because you have enemies. Truth be known, you deal with the internal enemies first. You’re commentary involving Kamala indicates you might be one too…and is no different than the methods being used by Musk , Vivek, et al.
Further, this topic has been raging like a drought induced forest fire for days all across the internet and in person across the nation. Musk has NEVER been America First – nor has Vivek. It’s time they are hoisted on their own petard.
Events brought it “front and center”
At least Scaramucci waited until he was installed.
It was boiling over the last few days, Sundance didn’t bring it anywhere, he merely acknowledged it and did more research on it himself, to better understand what is going on.
😂 blaming the eruption on SD? Really?
Why “now?”
Because “now” is always the best time for the truth.
Musk and Vivek are the ones posting inflammatory tweets. Trump needs to fire them now.
I am a licensed PE (professional engineer). I have in the past been negatively affected by H1-B abuse by employers. I have also had close personal friends that were in the US on H1-B. Nicole Shanahan has it essentially correct.
As with all issues re immigration, the problem is essentially abuse of the system for the purposes of importing essentially slave labor, thus undercutting the American worker. I have no problem allowing supremely talented tech workers in, provided the host company is willing to pay a premium for them — in other words they need to pay *more* than they would for an American citizen (as Nicole Shanahan is proposing).
In a free and fair job economy without importing labor, wages work similarly to price of products. If no Americans wants to fill your job opening, you aren’t offering enough incentives in money or benefits and you need to raise them until you are able to fill that job. It really is that simple. If you are unable to make a sustainable profit paying the wages the market determines, then you do not have a viable business model.
They’re all entitled to a business & success at the expense of everyone but themselves.
That’s their bastardization of capitalism.
Perhaps Musk should consider his own words:
H1B is a scam but the Fortune 500 have used it as a budget and bonus maker. You get what you pay for and as every American in corporate America knows, only 1 out of 10 or less are worth their cost. An English accent does not necessarily denote intelligence or an ability to get things done. Remember where these folks came from!
Meanwhile, standing patiently in line are millions and millions of vetted, educated people waiting for a chance to help build the American dream. The one that left coast tech oligarchs that think is theirs alone to design.
Elon and Vivek are turning out to be as much 5th Column and Trojan Horse as ‘saviors’ of the Republic. Just sayin, ‘it is what it is’ and actions talk.
Maybe they are all waiting for a Silicone Valley job but they are not easy to identify or find. As i mentioned the STEM program has been a bust in the USA . I read yesterday that the percentage of trained and certified techs are working in other fields. I believe that!
Other fields like not being an indentured servant to Elon Musk and his ilk?
On the surface this is a labor scheme, like the African slave trade, railroad labor or the Union Army draft. But I believe it’s much deeper.
The tech lords have an anti Christian animus. They are at heart pagans. There is a preference toward eastern Hinduism which aligns with their business model. A caste system.
P.S. how exactly did we develop the space and weapons programs way back without H1bs from India? That’s weird.
Today, we build and unleash Viruses with China.
Who builds and deploys Bio-Weapons together?
A: Allies.
The American Globo-Commies are partners with the Chinese Globo-Commies to oppress both Peoples.
Nazis..
Funny you should mention. I was just reviewing some quotes from famous Germans of the 20th century. A decided preference for the pagan occult and Islam. They were disappointed that Christianity didn’t serve their goals. I won’t post, them they are easy enough to find.
We brought in Germans and Austrians.
That’s quite the X statement by Musk
He destroyed his reputation in one tweet.
No, he CONFIRMED it in one tweet…at least for those who have been paying attention for far longer than the last 4 years.
if H1Bs were truly the exceptional talent that just can’t be found in America
then they would be commanding significantly higher salaries than typical workers in their field
I don’t think that is the case.
Those types of workers get O-1 visas. H-1B visas are used to suppress US wages.
I think both sides have some points. There are a lot of American kids who seem to expect a six figure salary out of college. But then, why? Entitlement sure, but there’s also the livability factor. If you’re $100k in the hole for a degree with a loan you can never get rid of, you need to make a certain amount. I made $45k as a second lieutenant and that was fantastic, but I didn’t have college loans to pay for and got a housing allowance. I can’t imagine what it’s like to have a current student loan hanging over you.
My husband got his grad school 100% paid for through an oil and gas consortium; they fund grad students and in return, get useful research, have input on the curriculum, and first dibs on fully qualified graduate hires. I’ve worked with tradesmen that have similar programs, where an electrical or plumbing firm pays them a small stipend with the promise of a wellpaid position at the end of the apprenticeship period. Every major corporation in the country has training programs like that for exiting military officers.
There is no reason why Silicone Valley couldn’t do that with software and hardware engineers. Offer the awful low level coding positions as paid apprenticeships, with the guarantee of upward mobility for those that prove themselves. Heck, if we’re talking about a big firm like Google here, they could probably even offer dormitory style housing or vouchers for roommate situations, etc. offer to defer student loan payments for anybody who is enrolled in a program like that.
They don’t do it because they don’t want to. There’s no incentive. But there are plenty of examples already of industry doing this. Start incentivizing it.
Of course, the caveat is that kids need to accept being uncomfortable for a few years. But Americans CAN and WILL solve this problem if they’re pushed to.
Student Loans are now Gumment Transfer Payments to Commie perfessers and administraitors.
I think musk just F’d himself in the face. That was pretty stupid
LOL!! True.
How about a 500% tariff on each H1B?
All well and good except for the Americans who can’t get their foot in the door of a tech company
We could also hand a carrot out-tax free for every business that hires Americans only.
This is the reality of the H-1B visa scam.
The past two weeks have been frustrating for me. As a widow living alone, I discovered that the previous owner has a SMART thermostat working in my house and that the heat is set to his standards of comfort and not mine. I wake to 66 degrees at 2:00 am and have to get out of bed and over ride the system on a nightly basis . 66 degrees is not my idea of heat!
So, I began to ask around and found that the majority of HVAC people in my north Mississippi region don’t understand how use the app and reprogram my heating system. One guy told me that when he was working for a major medical employer in our area, he was required to be SMART or get fired. He quit.
So, I have two rather top notch TECH friends who both claim that my problem is best resolved using one of two methods. One thinks he can help me and the other thinks i need to just put in a traditional thermostat. Yep, those are my choices.
Even car buyers are perplexed by the technology installed in modern day vehicles. Just last night a friend who bought a new jeep and is pretty savvy told me if he didn’t have a friend who understands technology he would be a sitting duck with his new vehicle.
I have a 78 year old friend who salesman at the Lexus dealer questioned if she would be able to handle the technology. So far, I believe she is doing fine with it but her son helps out a lot.
FORD did require a friend of ours to attend an 8 hour training session to learn all about how his new 2024 truck needed to be handled.
Yes, my question is what the hell are they teaching in the STEM classes in school. Just like everything else, they aren’t teaching at all. They are drawing a paycheck.
I have a 2010 sport sedan which refuses to wear out. I was on assignment in another city for a month soon after I bought the car. When I came back, the battery was dead. The dealer’s service technician told me that the car’s pollution control system wakes itself up on a scheduled basis and does a complete check of the system, recording any problems it finds.
The system check cannot be turned off. You either start the car every three weeks or so to recharge the battery, or else you install a trickle charger to keep the battery full while you are away for an extended period. You might disconnect the car’s battery before you leave, but doing that disables the anti-theft system. And also resets every option you picked on the car’s control panel, forcing you to go through the process of picking every option after you reconnect the battery.
I went with the trickle charger solution, placing a small weather-proof charging unit on one of the fenders near the battery so that it could be connected and disconnected quickly.
What do they teach in a STEM education? Does what is taught there matter?
A STEM education should do several things: (1) Teach you how to learn in a disciplined way; (2) Instill a work ethic in your daily habits, all of those habits, not just your learning habits; (3) Provide you with a starting foundation for the further education, training, and experience in your chosen field that will be needed for a successful career; and (4) Challenge you to think and work inside the box when it is necessary to think inside the box; but to know when to think and work outside the box when it becomes necessary to think outside the box.
My own career in the military industrial complex went through at least six major phases which involved further education, training, and a period of gaining more field experience in order to become competent in the work I was expected to perform.
I was successful in adapting to these career changes because I had learned how to learn in a disciplined way; and because I was not intimidated by the prospect of having to learn an entirely new body of knowledge if I was to move forward in my current career situation — whatever it happened to be at any particular time.
A very sage physics professor told us something that has been proven over and over again.
One of the greatest skills you can develop is how to find knowledge, absorb it, and then apply it to the tasks at hand. I can guarantee if you don’t learn these skills, you will be left behind in short order.
You can buy a good quality programmable thermostat at a store like The Home Depot for about $30.00. Lots of older people working there, many of whom just want to get out of the house. Look around for one who seems friendly and they will be glad to coach you in how to set it up.
You’ll be waking up in a warm house with a smile on your face, and falling asleep before it gets too cold in no time. 😊
The H1B scam has been going on for three decades and longer. When the Y2K issue with legacy software arose in the mid 1990’s, the software industry was claiming that America’s education system wasn’t producing nearly enough graduates to fill the need, and that H1B’s were desperately needed to fill the gap.
But at the very same time, graduates with computer science degrees and with other types of training in software coding tasks couldn’t find jobs, with the result that enrollment in computer science programs fell.
That this was happening was well documented at the time. Nothing was done to address the issue. Thirty years later, the only thing which has happened since then to challenge the Big Tech globalists is the rise of the MAGA movement.
We in the MAGA movement are now at a defining point which will be every bit as decisive as was the November 5th election. If PDJT caves on the H1B issue, his chances of accomplishing his MAGA agenda will be severely damaged, if not fatally wounded.
Maybe we can ask Don Jr. since he’s taking all the credit for bringing these people onboard.
Whatever Elon’s position on H1b, he needs to learn table manners.
It may be true that Musk’s purchase of Twitter and his allowing its use as a free speech platform enabled a Trump victory. It certainly helped it.
If that is true, given the existence of the Fourth Amendment and the other social media platforms’ collusion with the White House to suppress free speech, then we already exist in a WROL environment. But we’ve known that, haven’t we?
This thing is far from over. Act accordingly.
America First! It should always be our goal. To me the remarkable part of our Great Land is our system. This is enshrined in our Constitution and Bill of Rights in a nutshell “freedom”.
That being said; we have used foreign born people inside of the American System to excel like Wernher von Braun via Operation Paperclip (NAZI Germany) and the moon shots NASA, or earlier, The Manhattan Project. or for very different reasons Albert Einstein (Germany), the genius of Niccola Tesla (Croatian).
Everything that these guys became successful at was created inside of the American system, that’s why they didn’t work in South Africa, Germany, Switzerland or India you pick the country.
IBM in Armonk NY incorporated in 1911, one of the pioneers of the computer, specifically Main-Frames 50’s thru 70’s. You had many companies in the USA Bell Labs, GE even our government with (DARPA) The Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency since 1958.
Much of this has already been off shored to India and a swelling of anti-whit, anti-American rhetoric see IBM CEO Arvind Krishna’s statement. As an aside this went viral on X with James Okeefe investigation.
Jame Okeefe
BREAKING LEAKED VIDEO: CEO of IBM
“…admits to using coercion to fire people and take away their bonuses unless they discriminate in the hiring process. “You got to move both forward by a percentage that leads to a plus on your bonus,” Krishna said about hiring”
If you like go to James Okeefe on X and do a simple search and watch the videos.
For me the problem is not h1B but the abuse of the system. The most glaring example is Disney. I also have good friends in IT that have had their legs cut out from under them and had to train their replacements under threat of instant termination or loss of their pensions etc. with the job they held being off shored. Despicable practice that must end.
Related, I know whole industries (after NAFTA along with GATT) packed up machinery, techniques and methods and shipped them south of the border or to the Far East our Sweat Equity was squandered. I know, I owned a manufacturing facility from 1987 to 2001 and had a front row seat for this crap. Millions of manufacturing jobs simply evaporated.
I have no problem with someone who comes to the USA and finds fabulous success, cool, far-out, but I get enraged when they bite the hand that feeds them. Using systems that We The People paid for, created and tell us to stuff it.
You guys get the point. It’s the system in the USA, not the government. Everything created by our government turns into fraud and that includes h1B.
We have a glaring conflict of interest. Perhaps a different group within DOGE looks into this, and make sure the players use the system as ascribed instead of the DEI bull shit where Americans are sacrificed.
Nobody wants to throw the baby out with the bathwater, but our system created the baby, the water and the tub.
Ultra-MAGA! …is the only way.
It made my work night pass quickly.
I think the 2 recent brouhahas at X are a Positive Sign — that maybe the Right won’t kick the can down the road 2 years to the Next Big Election when the GOPe inevitably stabs us in the back repeatedly…
The Poo Storm over the 1,500 page last minute bill drop — designed to give the GOPe cover for why they were angry but just had to vote on it anyway – alas — was so big they backed down kinda.
Now, 2 of the latest Bright Lights against the Left who talked a good game during the campaign – decided to take a crap on our dinning-room table right at Christmas Dinner —- and the reaction was massive + visceral. I don’t know how Racist it got beyond my For You Feed – but what I read threatened to head in that direction but ultimately didn’t…
…In fact, it was informative – like Sundance has shown. Our side was joined by ppl directly effected by these Visas in Tech + ppl who did the hiring + so on.
The 2 Leading Lights were forced to eventually give clarification that helped some.
But – 1 message was clear – it appears MAGA isn’t going to sit by waiting for Elections down the road too much anymore…
I don’t know if Cenk Uyghur is a pod-person or not – but – the current version of him got it:
https://x.com/cenkuygur/status/1872764468754551278?s=61
Worth checking out.
I tried hard to get Grok to show the faces of the 2 Caucasians clearly – but – damn – it didn’t want to do it…
I was thankful the poo storm made me remember this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96iJsdGkl44
It’s actually better the way it was rendered – with them representing the faceless and forgotten American worker…
Seeing Cenk sound reasonable is a mind bender for me.
I’m pretty sure he’s a pod-person now… Probably abducted + the anal probe went horribly wrong so they had to rush out a copy + got the persona all backward….
Erect a big tent, expect big chaos.
Everyone has an agenda.
There are no altruists in politics.
Trump’s mettle will be tested big league.
Where’s my popcorn?
Maybe smartypants Elon should have read that message, or maybe he did and thought he’d just saunter on in and takeover from Trump. How many times has that happened and how did it turn out?
From Free Speech Hero to CENSORSHIP KING: How Elon Musk Just Turned Against MAGA!
Interesting comment on this thread at YT:
@tedlodholz10391 hour ago
I am a senior software engineer with twenty years of experience and a Master’s degree. I was laid off in October 2023 and still can’t find a job in my own country. It’s infuriating to see all the white men being pushed out and replaced by one Indian after another. My entire department of 100 people was mostly Indian. They even started having Indian celebrations at work. This is so backwards. I paid into this system my entire life, and now Vivek thinks our ‘culture’ is too lazy. This is a slap in the face.
Vivek is a bit of a racist, yes?
That was me 23 years ago. I had a computer science BS and certs from Lotus, Microsoft, Cisco, and a Project Management. I ended up working in my military trade making over two times the money.
Haven’t heard a peep from JD Vance.
What is his position on H1B visas and the future of American workers being shut out?
Vance is a squish.
Considering his wife is Indian I’d think he might be trying to lay low on the issue.
I wonder if Jr knew how much he was used by them to get to his father.
It aint over ’til it’s over. Maybe it’s the other way around.
“To keep pace with global competitors like China and India, we need Americans ready to tackle the challenging jobs in these fields. We have them, but often our STEM grads turn their noses up at these entry-level, low-paying coding positions after investing in a costly education.”
STEM stands for Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics. Had to look that one up. The cost of our colleges and universities for STEM grads needs to be overhauled!!! It’s become a scam where higher learning institutions can charge outrageous tuition knowing the students can get government loans to cover the costs. When students at these institutions graduate they’re in debt for the rest of their lives!!! Our higher education system needs to be rid of wacko, leftist propaganda spewing professors and exorbitant tuition costs!!! Presidents in some of these institutions are making million dollar salaries!!!! Something needs to be done. Perhaps the jobs being taken by H1B visas wouldn’t be as great? JMO
The key is that H1B workers can be deported back to India. And they WILL deport you in these cases, quickly.
Americans, they can’t deport.
If it’s a challenging job, then you deserve pay that reflects that.
And then the global competitors as she calls them, which is a lie as they steal knowledge and tech from America don’t they?, have no qualms about using slave labor, how do you compete with a thief who owns slaves?
Bring it on Musky Arse.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2024/12/26/elon-musk-vivek-ramaswamy-and-the-silicon-valley-tech-millionaire-group-continue-lambasting-americans-while-advocating-for-expanded-foreign-worker-visas/#comment-11423097
Musky arse is much like another reprobate of silicon valley, Gulag’s chief engineer.
A paper by Kurzweil, Gulag’s transhumanist engineer, talking about how “Nanobots in our brains will make us Godlike” – written in 2015. The title says so much him and the push to transhumanism.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/npqu.12005
Transhumanists like Kurzweil and Musk think they can transfer INTO the machines and live there forever, being one with the “AI”. Kurzweil has talked about it extensively. Here is an article at Wired from 2008 on “Kuerzweil pulling out all the stops” – trying to live until he can help bring about his “singularity” and be transferred to a machine.
https://www.wired.com/2008/03/ff-kurzweil/
Here’s a 2024 interview with the psychopath, where he talks about his beloved singularity is ever near.
https://www.wired.com/story/big-interview-ray-kurzweil/
He even wrote a book and created a website about the coming age of darkness. The Singularity is nearer…
https://www.thesingularityisnearer.com/
Here, just as Musky has recently, Kurzweil talks about the rise of the robots. He also talks about the singularity (where humanity ceases to exist and human memory infused AI rules).
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/22/robots-google-ray-kurzweil-terminator-singularity-artificial-intelligence
Don’t think they actually mean elimination of humanity?
The Human 2p0 website…the opening hello at the time I originally ran across it was – “Welcome to POSThumanity.” No more humans. They’ve toned it down slightly, but it’s still “an upgrade, whether you like it or not.” Search around the site and you’ll also find references to things like how it will be “Like Bladerunner.”
http://human20.com/welcome-to-posthumanity/
Dear moderators – there are several sets of background information in posts that are in moderation in this area due to multiple outbound links 🙂
Here an article about Kurzweil of how ‘nanobots’ will ‘swim throughout the blood stream.’
“By 2030, Nanobots will flow throughout our bodies.” That was before the release of the China virus – now they do throughout the injected.
https://futurism.com/kurzweil-by-2030-nanobots-will-flow-throughout-our-bodies
It isn’t merely boasting by a madman either:
A description of nanobots – which are “invisible” to the immune system, so they can carry their payload or function out without interference from your body’s defenses…(very concerning):
https://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=56461.php
An article from 2015 about Pfizer working with an Israeli company to use nanobots to deliver payloads of medical proteins…like the gene therapy injections do. Note they travel throughout the body and can be targeted against specific cell types. That also means that the big pharma companies KNEW their gene therapy shots would travel throughout the body. Targeting…heart, ovaries, brains.
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-pfizer-to-collaborate-on-bar-ilan-dna-robots-1001036703
Here’s an article from 2016 on nanobots potential use to deliver cancer drugs – “swimming”, being directed by a magnetic field, and involving “nano-sized magnetic particles.”
https://www.meddeviceonline.com/doc/drug-delivering-nanorobots-target-cancer-growth-hotspots-0001
From one of the nanobot websites (work on them has been going on for some time) is a discussion of nanotech and the gene therapy injections. Of course, they don’t go into everything 😉 In the picture of the types of injections that were (and are) in development, type a & b are what actual vaccines are made with. The rest aren’t vaccines, but gene therapy.
https://www.nanowerk.com/spotlight/spotid=56577.php
Here’s a video from 2007 showing exactly how the H1B visa program is abused by the psychotic tech CEOs and companies. The video is from a training session being given to companies on how to skirt the legal requirements and hire foreign workers in spite of there being highly qualified Americans to fill the positions. While put out by the programmer’s guild at the time, the practice is the same one that occurs in ALL fields where H1B and other visa abuses occur (which is most fields today).
The former group who obtained and shared that video has moved to another site and is now focused on the AI fight – IMO foolishly abandoning the via abuse campaign. If interested, their new spot is here:
https://unitedinformationworkers.locals.com/about
While the numbers have continually rebounded from the lows of 2020, there were still 183,000 fewer U.S.-born Americans working in the fourth quarter of 2023 than in the fourth quarter of 2019, before Covid. The number of immigrants (legal and illegal) working is up 2.9 million over 2019. (Figure 4 and Table 2)
https://cis.org/Report/Employment-Situation-Immigrants-and-USborn-Fourth-Quarter-2023
(Foreign-born workers made up 18.1% of the US labor force in 2022 — the most in 27 years of recordkeeping, according to a report from the Department of Labor.)
Foreign-born workers were a record high 18.1 percent of the U.S. civilian labor force in 2022
https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2023/foreign-born-workers-were-a-record-high-18-1-percent-of-the-u-s-civilian-labor-force-in-2022.htm
Most Employment Growth Since Pandemic Has Gone to ImmigrantsLabor force participation for “prime age” U.S.-born men remains at historic lows
https://cis.org/Camarota/Most-Employment-Growth-Pandemic-Has-Gone-Immigrants
How can we expect someone who is not an American to think and behave like an American? I’m sorry Elon, that dog won’t hunt.
I’m seeing intelligent people coming out in defense of what Vivek said about our culture, completely ignoring the fact that he said it in service of a BIG LIE, that the H1b program is designed to bring in the best and the brightest, and also the inference was that parents in India, of all places, were raising kids better than Americans are.
I’m with Sundance in that it is jaw-dropping to me just how big this issue has gotten (and also how desperate the attempts to stuff the cat bag in the bag).
I completely stayed away from the internet for over 24 hours, when this thing started to break loose. By the time I noticed this on December 26, it was already spreading exponentially, and as we all saw yesterday, the spin was on, “hey all you magats, you are falling for a trick to divide you”.
This reminds me of way back at the start of the covid con, when there were warnings out there not to use our critical thinking skills.
I have seen so, so many first person stories about the experiences people have had, even since last evening.
We didn’t exactly think what happened at Disney was an isolated instance, but it’s way, way more pervasive then we knew.
Are you really surprised Clarion? As you yourself commented on, it’s like 2020 all over again – back then many whom I knew to be very intelligent were very stupid and sucked in, stalwart defenders of the crimes against humanity.
“Hitting the hornets nest was a mistake.
Everyone is learning how to search the H-1B databases and let’s say it’s a red pill for sure.”
I’m glad that Arrogant Elon declared war so openly against the American people. He’s in for a big surprise as the blowback grows.
FAFO
FAFO they will understand the meaning for sure. Another Bud Light moment, Salivation Army too. I saw no one put money in the kettles this year, nada, zero. Would love to know what if any they raked in.
I am one who puts money in just about every time I see one, because it takes brass b@LLs to stand outside in the freezing winds in most of the places I’ve lived at Christmastime, this year being one of the most ferocious in that regard.
They are an organization that does much good, a part of our cultural heritage that I believe deserves saving.
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrymagazine/poems/12631/general-william-booth-enters-into-heaven
He has no concept of what war is…and likely thinks his machines will help him, not understanding they’re ineptitude, which is worse than even his own ]8-}
Wow! First off I am very impressed by the opinion of Nicole Shanahan. I learned quite a bit from her short piece and am frankly elated that we have someone of her intellect and temperament on our team as it were.
Mr. Musk on the other hand has shown a stunning lack of professionalism and decorum. Consider that part of his DOGE duties would include, not just pinpointing areas of government waste, but being able to pitch it convincingly to the legislature, who ultimately would be responsible for implementation. Dropping the F bomb pretty much disqualifies him and I think he should withdraw from the assignment.
Now that the election is won Musk needs President Trump a lot more than the president needs him. He lacks self control and is sure to be a loose canon if left to continue. I have never witnessed such a drastic, almost Jekyll and Hyde turn around and fall from grace in a public figure, who up to now had gained the trust of the American people. I’m anxious to see how President Trump responds.
I’m holding my fire, because I’m old enough to remember the Sistah Soulja play.
Not to mention, if Kash does his job, Silicon Valley is likely to show up on his spotlight as the Berlin of the late 1940’s the way blood stain show up under dark light. And the entire conversation will change.
Look, bottom line, H1B visas are used in the software industry, be it corporate development or software for sale, to acquire exceptional work for less than competitive pay. I watched it for 17 years at my former employer who advertised for skill sets that did not exist. The H1B applicants would both claim these skills without evidence, and develop those skills on the job.
But another example. I applied for a systems administrator job in 2005, pretty straightforward. I had the skills. The employer did advertise that it would include minimal html coding and web site maintenance work, and I was pretty good at solving web problems, even some awkward stuff. During the interview, they admitted the job as 75-25 web to admin work. Why the subterfuge? Because back then a sysadmin was fairly cheap, web guys a lot more expensive. And this job would never get an H1B. I declined, but not before I pointed out their duplicity, and that making them an employer I could never really trust. As if they cared.
Today, many H1Bs are hired based on advertised qualifications that have little or nothing to do with the actual work. Partly because an honest description would leave many citizens qualified and in line for the job, but also because the game is played on both ends – employers play with the job description, applicants play with the qualifications. Got a degree? Excellent! Got experience? Oh, no, this job is too special for previous experience to be applicable. Pay? It looks right, but truthfully it ain’t.