The Silicon Valley immigration priority was not the topic I thought would explode and fracture the tenuous MAGA alignment with the New Big Tech group represented by Elon Musk and his billionaire network. However, we learn more every day.
This is a jaw-dropping moment to watch unfold as a very influential sector of the political discourse begins a full-frontal attack against those who are pointing out how the tech community abuse H1B visas to replace American workers. In the background, of course, is the context of widespread immigration policy fraud being one of the priorities for the average Trump supporter.
The Silicon Valley team do not seem to review discussion of the H1B manipulation/fraud within the larger American economy as a problem, as long as the discussion of the visa fraud does not impact their business models. However, as soon as the H1B abuse started to be framed around Silicon Valley’s participation therein, the New Big Tech group take a nuclear war approach to defending their interests.
[SOURCE]
Having followed the immigration issue for a long time, yet specifically only having a big picture review of the H1B visa issues, it has been astounding to watch how Elon Musk, Vivek Ramaswamy, David Sacks and the Silicon Valley supporters and influencers are responding to having the H1B visa fraud confronted. The self-interest in their defense is just astronomical to watch unfold.
Empowered by what can only be reasonably defined as their perceived influence over President Trump, the new-era Tech team are quite forcefully telling the MAGA base of Trump-supporting American workers that their concerns, views and perspectives are irrelevant.
It appears that most of the explosive sentiments revolve around H1B visas in the tech sector issued to Indian workers specifically. Apparently, the friendships, networks and teams attached to the sector of computer engineering carry with them an emotional component. I guess that should not be a surprise considering this is essentially a peer-to-peer wagon circling, in defense of the H1B visa problems in the tech sector.
As said before, it always appeared the MAGA alignment with Silicon Valley would not be an issue until the interests of the billionaire tech team came into conflict with the MAGA base. I did not anticipate the fracture being so fast, nor did I anticipate immigration would be the trigger. However, H1B visa issuance is apparently a key part of the Silicon Valley business model.
That said, several pragmatic aspects of the discussion are now being lost amid a very toxic shouting match that has begun. President Trump and JD Vance are, perhaps understandably, staying very quiet at the moment. However, that silence is soon to be impossible as both sides of a very divisive issue are going to eventually demand President Trump to weigh in.
I will try to cut through some of the toxic noise so that we can discuss the larger issues.
Theo Wold provides some context:
“I led the drafting of legislation in the Trump ‘45 White House to create a new legal immigration framework. I saw firsthand what happens when ANY visa reform is proposed: executives from the biggest multinationals and lobbyists from all kinds of industries are banging on the door, demanding to keep what they have.
What they have is a tangled morass of visa classes that are carve-outs, handouts, and special favors to particular industries, bought and paid for through decades of lobbying feckless members of Congress and presidential administrations. Industries lobby for the foreign workers they claim to “need,” and then they get a visa class carve-out, which they protect (and seek to expand) at all costs.
And there are enormous costs for our nation – costs that fall on the American worker with devastating consequences. The statistics bear that out: job gains go to foreign-born workers while American workers post net job losses.
I also know this firsthand because I grew up a working-class kid, watching my father (and by extension, our family) suffer from unfair foreign labor competition.
For too long, Americans have been largely unaware of the source of these problems because the policies are designed to be too complicated and are made largely invisible to public scrutiny. I’m glad the right is having an open debate about legal immigration. It is past time.
To be clear, the difference between O1Bs and H1Bs matters in this debate, for example, because these visas are intended to accomplish very different goals and are entirely different in scale, BUT both visa classes are rife with abuse. (Plenty of Reggaeton stars and anti-American athletes enter the U.S. on O-1 visas.) Essentially ALL visa classes are abused. Again, that’s because these things exist to serve special interests on one side of the labor market (and it’s not the side of the American worker).
The debate can’t be confined to a single industry – it’s about Big Tech, Big Ag, tourism and hospitality, transportation (airlines, trucking), the media & sports entertainment complex (yes, the NFL and MLB have their own special visa classes and their own special treatment by DHS and State) and many many others. They all want special visas to import cheap and convenient foreign labor. Even the roofing industry is now seeking its own special visa class. And all of these special classes get expanded over time, allowing the American worker to be flooded with foreign competitors for no reason other than labor savings for employers.
I, like many Americans, voted for a sealed border and an immigration moratorium. Americans need to retake control of our immigration system — how many are coming in, for what reasons, and for how long. One question absent from our current system: how does this individual immigrant benefit the American nation and her people? No more blanket exemptions or economic rationales. Immigration is a regime-based question, as both Hamilton and Jefferson wrote on extensively, and our system should reflect that Americans must also demand meaningful investment in assimilation and integration requirements for legal immigrants here already.’ (Source)
Within the debate, those who advocate for the H1B visa process are quick to call anyone a “racist” or “nativist” who stands against it. Within the tech industry the use of H1B is positioned as vital for their success.
As can be noted by the extreme position on the pro-H1B side of the discussion, they view this debate as a zero-sum contest. The position of Musk and the Silicon Valley tech group is that if the H1B process is stopped, American technological advancements will immediately cease to exist.
When it is pointed out that Silicon Valley discriminates against white Americans with engineering degrees and or skills, Silicon Valley shouts back the same arguments as the DEI promoters Musk claims to abhor. Musk and the tech group immediately use the Alinsky attack method (isolate, ridicule, marginalize) against anyone who speaks forcefully against their interests. The Musk allies and influencers then pile on. It is something remarkable to watch happen.
Years of Americans in various business sectors being forced to train their foreign replacements before the Americans are terminated from employment, underscore a very hardened stance against the H1B abuse. The decision by the Silicon Valley network to dismiss this problem because they want to sustain their current business operations is not going to end well unless some cooler heads immediately intercede.
Nicole Shanahan, Robert F Kennedy’s former running mate – and also a Silicon Valley network influencer, puts it this way:
“Having lived in Silicon Valley for 20+ years and founded and sold an AI company, I’ve seen firsthand how we rely on H-1B to fill grueling, unglamorous coding jobs. These jobs are essential, and we need capable people doing them. But the system needs an overhaul.
Here’s why:
To keep pace with global competitors like China and India, we need Americans ready to tackle the challenging jobs in these fields. We have them, but often our STEM grads turn their noses up at these entry-level, low-paying coding positions after investing in a costly education.
So why are immigrants from India, China, and elsewhere so eager for these jobs? It’s not because they’re glamorous or because these roles don’t exist back home. And definitely not because they offer high salaries. There’s something else driving this…
The undeniable proof that the United States is the single greatest nation on earth is that people from every corner of the globe dream of coming here—not to China or India—but America.
I take issue with some of the discourse I’ve read online today suggesting “lazy American culture” is the main driver for why we need to continue the H-1B program. Let’s be real: tech companies getting massive breaks on cheap labor at the expense of the American way of life is predatory.
Blaming our culture for why American STEM grads won’t take underpaying jobs is ridiculous and insulting.
The system we’ve constructed with H-1B visas, whether we like it or not, incentivizes people to come here and serve as essentially indentured servants for Big Tech, taking on the tough, grueling jobs that few here in America are excited to perform at the current suppressed salaries.
In return, if you’re good at your job, you’re then put on a fast track to get a Green Card, which means legal status and the chance to bring your family over through chain migration.
I’m reminded of this famous line by our second President, John Adams: “I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.”
Just because our kids have the “right” to chase artistic dreams like music and painting, doesn’t mean we should bring in hundreds of thousands of foreign workers to displace them in math-intensive careers. It’s a two-fold issue: both our education and immigration policies are broken. Instead of tackling these complex issues head-on, Big Tech monopolies and tech VCs are looking for the fastest way to outcompete globally and become industry giants. It’s paid off—look at the insane valuations of these companies!
We can’t entirely blame them for this approach—it’s been the industry norm for 40 years—but we can insist they seek out the tough, lasting solutions. No more temporary fixes.
I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
But, do I think removing the incentive of attaining legal status would reduce the volume of foreign applicants? Absolutely.
And, guess what? That might finally force Big Tech to look for workers right here at home (and pay them a competitive wage). Americans expect fair pay, which means these companies would have to start sharing their wealth rather than hoarding it.
Meritocracy is key to America’s greatness, but so are justice and fairness—we shouldn’t keep rewarding an industry that has curtailed free speech and American values. After Trump’s recent victory, the everyday worker feels empowered like never before. They won’t surrender that power, and frankly, it’s not right to imply they should.
There are numerous ways to improve our immigration system while safeguarding the American labor force (and I say “force” because it truly is capable, creative, and powerful).
Here are two straightforward steps to start the process:
1. Immigration policy must be designed to protect the American way of life and its workforce. Singapore’s work permit program, which they designed in the ’90s, was built from this standard and could provide good inspiration. They use a modern-day designation system to manage the influx of labor across various sectors.
⁃ Employers face levies (essentially fees that employers have to pay for each foreign worker they hire. It’s a way to manage the number of foreign workers coming in by making it more expensive to employ them, encouraging companies to also look for talent locally).
⁃ There are Dependency Ceilings, which essentially limit the number of foreign workers based on the local workforce—this is KEY.
⁃ They impose restrictions on the countries from which workers can come.
⁃ Permits are diversified across industries to ensure balance.
2. Special economic zones are amazing and can transform local tech job markets. Hiring locally is going to be critical for making sure Americans are taking key tech industry roles AND able to support their families.
If we really want to lift America to heights unseen in generations—not just talk about it, but actually do it—then we can’t continue to stick to outdated strategies that have harmed Americans. We owe it to ourselves and our communities to aim higher and do better.” (source)
As I watch this debate unfold, I find myself finally realizing why all the Silicon Valley tech people were such staunch Democrats. Their worldview does not: (1) seem to comprehend American Economic Nationalism as a priority; (2) seem to appreciate the importance of true liberty in the creation of the remarkable outcomes from American exceptionalism; and (#3) they appear to be inside a bubble of self-interest, unattached and unaffected by the economic issues that have seriously harmed the MAGA base.
In essence, the Silicon Valley network represented by Elon Musk team, does not connect in the same way to the important priorities of middle America. The technocrats are, well, Technocrats.
Watching this debate unfold is quite remarkable.


Listen to Joe Rogan interview Mike Benz. It’s two hours plus but worth it. It puts everything on the table. The fight is just beginning. It’s the world elites against the rest of us.
It’s a big nothing burger. People that are vital don’t come cheap no matter where they’re from. It’s not about money to Elon. It’s about getting the job done.
Calm down Francis!
Yes we’ve imported slaves before to build the railroad and other things.
But what does that have to do with America First?
The greatest innovations were happening in the US long before we hired people who spoke broken english to staff tech support centers
I don’t remember seeing your name or profile pic here before – strange.
Bull sht.
He’s a greedy man and he wants cheap labor. They all do.
Fk them all.
Trump supports immigration visas backed by Musk: ‘I have many H-1B visas on my properties’
Now break out the “Trump is getting bad advice like covid” spin
He started with these reversals back in 2020, but fortunately some people were still able to get through to him then.
Wasn’t it his son Baron who was helping 🤔 in the campaign …
No.
No spin. If he chose the tech holes over the forgotten man he always rattles on about then that is that.
Ok, bye then.
That’s a fake picture of Elon in the undies, btw.
I’m not so sure.
No he has a gut like that, saw him on a yacht in swim trunks, that’s him. His weight fluctuates, the belly and moobs is from smoking pot.
Up yours as well Musk.
Colonialism has been demonized as richer countries stealing poorer countries natural resources. History will demonize H-1b visa’s and open borders as stealing poorer countries human resources. And that is exactly what it is. They should work hard in their own communities to make their own nations great. 4×4
They can’t. Bevause they are not nearly the super geniuses they are believed to be. And they lie like dogs.
Calling us deplorable and garbage was shamed by President Trump. So what does he say about Musk?
NY Post reports he said:
Trump supports immigration visas backed by Musk: ‘I have many H-1B visas on my properties’
they did not talk to him about the Musk tweet…already been debunked. NOT what POTUS was talking about at all
So please explain. What is Trump talking about?
for skilled positions that are not filled by American’s. For positions that Americans simply won’t do.
Good grief. I give up. Why did people believe this lie?
First, the only reference to “highly skilled” positions is in the Post’s narrative of the discussion.
Second, since the entire transcript of the Post’s conversation with Trump has not been published it can not have been “debunked” as stated.
Third, as stated by Nichole Shanahan in Sundance’s posting, the tech industry abuses the H-1B process by claiming these entry level grunt positions require highly skilled individuals. What they actually require is entry level coders that are willing to undercut American wage rates for the opportunity of residency.
H2B visas mainly for service workers.. not needed.. yes Americans will do those jobs if at a fair pay.
Billie,
Whether Trump has H1B visa holders cleaning hotel rooms, or not (prolly not) or
simply has H1B’s as the golf pros on his courses, he really needed to hold out an olive
branch to his DOGE dudes.
This is what inevitably happens when anyone assembles a diverse team: they disagree.
Unfortunately, the really smart ones outed themselves on social media –and got
savaged. Oops!
Trump is simply trying to bring his team back together. They can iron out the
fine print and come forward with something that is easier to swallow for MAGA
voters. That sounds impossible, but Trump is (after all) the guy who wrote:
The Art of the Deal. Right?
Just watch. He will make it happen. Don’t lose faith.
What a bunch of excrement.And next he’ll be “fixing the country” by importing Indian teachers, even though it is a well-known fact that Indians are strongly racist and tribalist and hire and promote only their own. “Art of the Deal”… what a narcissistic clown!
Brilliant Analogy: All this noise will be forgotten in 48 Hours something else will replace it simply by someone hitting the AI button LOL haha funneeeee. The AI part was a joke.
Seriously Musk is simply a human who figured out how to get the maximum amount of Tax money subsidizing his Electric Vehicle scam. (Ever see a Tesla Dealer?). No dealer no taxes on property Federal Excise but they use the roads.
NASA he figured out how to maximize the $80,000,000 a day into his bank account I dont know how he did it. He wears the Satanic Costume proudly every Halloween. Is responsible for Nuralink this device along with Starlink can single-handedly bring the mark of the beast into fruition I said Can. Plus to become irredeemable one must worship it as well but what we’re seeing is close to manifestation.
What if all this is orchestrated behind the Pay Wall for our consumption to divide us keep us making negative comments against others. Jesus warned us not to worry about others but to worry about what comes from our own heart.
When Mike Johnson speaker of the house was giving out the $ just as he was expected to I called his office and gave a piece of what I was thinking. Knowing it made no difference it did make me feel like a rat and was in a crappy mood for a while. Exactly as the programming was meant to do.
We can all do better to avoid judging others doing good for those around us. Helping our neighbor who is elderly. Smiling at somebody in public. Hold the door for the one behind you. Be considerate in trafffic. God Bless.
IMO Trump just lost republicans in the house the next election. MAGA folks going to be turning their backs on him. Might as well just burn the dang thing down instead of handing it over to these dang foreigners ! Musk and others need to take a flying leap.
I agree…even IF that quote was taken out of context, (which I think it was) his deafening silence of the past week while this has gone on has said volumes to me on where his priorities are. I am very disappointed in him honestly…
Strictly regarding PDJT – his management style is to allow vociferous debates on topics and let them run their course. He follows the discussions and then afterwards, weighs in with his own conclusion.
Think it’s a mistake in this case – but it’s always been his way and fairly well documented.
He can take his “management” style and stuff it up his where-the-sun-can’t-shine so his head will have the pleasure of his own BS for company!
Your reply is at odds with your screen name, Civil Ian.
Civilian. Just a name I thought up, nothing to it. And so what if I am salty at this time? Who made you boss of how people should feel and express themselves?
Perchance the same one that gave you license to make your original comment about PDJT?
thank you Harrison for your thoughtful response. There seems to be some testy responses I am not used to here on the Treehouse. I thought this site was for discourse and discussion.
Agreed, Harrison, interviews of his business style always show how he solicits input from many opinions. It’s his style. I just think in this instance given that MAGA has been told to go F ourselves and I believe called retarded, some type of stepping in would have been nice…but we will see how this plays out. Merry Christmas Harrison.
A Blessed Christmas to you and yours Michele. I agree with your stepping in by now comment, but didn’t expect it.
Would warn that there have been “infiltrators” trying to sow dissension for some time regarding PDJT specifically. That there are a number in this discussion should come as no surprise – nor should at times heated comments.
On the other hand, have warned about Musk and Vivek for a long time and knew they would eventually out themselves in a major way. Such is the world we live in.
No mistake in the end we need to allow foreign tech workers and other skilled workers in based on MERIT.. BUT the indentured servitude needs to stop. IF Elon wants to sponsor immigrants he needs.great but they will stop being bargains when they are.not dependent on him for visa status .
When they can apply anywhere for a job that pays more, the drive to bring foreign workers in solely to undercut wages will end.
I seem to be the only one who realizes that Elon and ‘swampy are dead set on India because…? I mean, why not Japan? Why not Germany (lots of STEM people there looking for work, what with their downturn and energy problems)? Or Poland or Ukraine?
Funny how it has to be India… the only country besides China (which is in a HUGE mess) that Russia likes, whom ‘Musk and ‘swampy also both like. Gee, I see nothing suspicious there at all….
It’s been going on a long, long time (India) and well before BRICS was a thing, when India and China were most definitely not buddies.
Interesting that you try to interject Russia into the conversation though…
Because he is pro-Russia. He’s made no secret of that.
Russia has zero to do with this issue.
Triggered much?
I don’t fully agree with your opening premise, but there are ways to fix the system and disincentivize its abuse.
I talked about one such way here:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2024/12/28/a-highly-toxic-silicon-valley-meltdown-over-well-documented-h1b-visa-fraud-explodes/comment-page-4/#comment-11424273
Point taken, Michele.
Perhaps, a Dem. candidate would have been better?
One without any policy positions
given, because…they don’t want to be criticized.
Perhaps, a candidate who loves to drink boxed wine and
post on social media, as this person cackles?
Not EVERYTHING is ALWAYS “either/or” and Michele M was not expressing what you are putting on her fingers.
Or maybe we could have a candidate that 8 years ago campaigned on the very real issues and problems with the H-1B and other visa programs. That in their 1st term enacted policies to curb and restrict these visa programs. But now believes they are a good thing. A candidate that accused their opponent of flip-flopping on major policy issues?
it has not been a week. Flying effs people. This happened a couple days ago. Give the man a BREAK, he is trying to put together a cabinet, during the Holidays, etc. He’s not on Tweeter watching EVERY post. We know his positions. He’s been clear: America FIRST
I trust him
Didn’t come a decade to abandon now
Exactly, have you noticed all the new names here trying to put a divide between Trump and his supporters before he’s even in office? The left are very good at playing that game and this site has been infiltrated.
You talking about me? I’ve known about this place for over ten years. Just because I don’t often post, but suddenly do, doesn’t make me a “lefty” except in your delusional, everything’s-a-conspiracy! eyes.
Anyway, unlike you delusional “hopefuls”, I actually paid attention to what Trump said vs what he actually did, during his first campaign and his first term. He’s never done anything he’s promised. Period. But there has been another reliable constant: YOU people, making excuses for him, no matter what he does or doesn’t do.
So, yeah, I am divided against that and always will be. But I honestly could not care less what way you go. But I’ll still call you what you are, which is hopelessly delusional.
Fair enough, or is that too “lefty” for your little mind to handle?
“He’s never done anything he’s promised. Period.”
Thanks for outing yourself so clearly 🙂
Whatever, dude.
Yep me also
Right, Tom. Once the economy is smoking-hot, once again, no one
will remember what sort of h e l l we have all been put through.
This little kerfuffle will still be very fresh on everyone’s minds.
Our grudge against Trump, even after he saves our collective a s s e s,
will be much stronger than the inflation, homelessness, and crime
…and the attacks on our Constitutional freedoms, Tranny storytime,
etc., etc….
In two years, we will be soooo mad that the DOGE boys opened their mouths
and told you their truthful concerns about hiring, that we vote against Trump
or allow Socialist Dems to take back the House and Senate.
I disagree.
Time will tell .
H1b visa program clearly needs to be adjusted/updated but the real purpose of the focus here is to drive a wedge between Republicans and their tech supporters. Ask yourself why is this an issue Now? These people coming on work visas work hard, pat taxes, don’t need taxpayer handouts, aren’t criminals. Yes they are the kind of immigrants we want. On the list of problems with immigration, this problem is on page 196. Detractors, for obvious reasons, would love for Trump and our administration distracted from the real problem. The tens of millions of Illegals that have invaded our country, requiring billions in handouts funded by taxpayers. And that’s before we even find out how many are actually criminals, drug runners, or worse.
Are you sure they don’t get any government benefits? I recall reading otherwise but don’t know much about the subject. Seems like if low wage workers at Wal Mart can get government benefits, low paid people on H1B visas could too. The tech oligarchs would support it so those people could live in Silicon Valley on the low wages they get.
They can get SNAP benefits (modern food stamps) if they otherwise qualify. They can also get the child tax credit.
They can’t get unemployment benefits.
Further, they have “clarified” the rules and stated that getting government benefits does not make them a ‘public charge’, which would mean they would be expelled.
ATTENTION: I post here regularly as RJH I did not post the above reply to drip drip
I did not post the above, someone is using my handle
Yes I think a large percentage do get some taxpayer funded programs.. and what about SSI from social security? Ya I think they have an path to that, wrongly, and any chain-migration clan they bring in when in possession of a green card or above. Add in what the USG/taxpayers pay to partially fund each one of these positions granted. And on the other end social programs to real Americans in almost all cases wrongly displaced or NOT allowed to take that job. Think about what the biden regime did ..they basically air-dropped in the surge of the bottom of one’s shoes as soon as-called immigrants and gave them work permits. All in an effort to say they are/were bonafide migrants are working and can’t be deported back. A very large percentage have low IQs, no work ethic, no English language ability or desire of achieving this. All are huge unneeded and unwanted scum in our country and on our culture and economy. A hard NO all around.
Attention ADMIN: I post here regularly under the RJH handle. I did not post this.
.
Have the same issue, myself . . .
drip…,
Super high-IQ people have a difficult time with social/emotional issues. So, these guys blew up.
For those G/T teachers out there, these issues are common knowledge.
It is a good thing that Trump is such a good negotiator. He will bring them back. Just watch.
By ignoring what was said. Oh, skilled H1B are so special. What about the low HIB that will come into train?
Don’t think he’ll ignore what they said, but he may not directly address each sentence.
I would ask, when you get in a heated argument with someone you are friends with or work with, do you carry the words said around your neck for a long time – or once the debate is over, put them aside and move forward based upon the agreed points?
I don’t think we want them back.
We are talking about adults that have been around the block, not elementary school children.
Neither one of them (V or E) are super high IQ people – nor do either one of them understand Americans or our culture. They do at times remind me of the tale of the one-eyed man being king though.
Someone responded to you using my handle. This is my only response to you.
H1B should not exist. The browning of America is dangerous, genocidal against white Americans, and creates endless social, cultural and economic COSTS with NO benefits except to big business who simply want mediocre slave labor.
A country is its people and its people are its race with their culture.
You know, like all the non white countries none of whom would allow whites to do this in reverse.
So so many visa catagories OPT H2B and so many other variations need to be stopped and rescinded now! Our true unemployment rate is about 25% of those that can work and can’t find a decent job, and yes they would do almost all those jobs if paid fairly. 17-56 year olds the key employment category. No we don’t need want nor can pay for corporate welfare in any way shape or form.
Lost..,
We have such a dif time finding employees.
You would be amazed at how many respond to the ads, only to collect proof of job-shopping
so that they can continue the benefits.
True.
Ya I get that, but unless and until fair wages are paid.. but I also know from being in a very technical field and sub instructing in junior and senior high school, a very large percentage are clueless and have few skills. True.
When people can make more not working than they do working, there will always be a percentage of people that do exactly that…
It has nothing to do with the visa programs or the influx of people into the nation.
Shouldn’t you be at a Klan rally somewhere?
Is this the reason why Trump asked Musk “Where are you?” in a Truth post where he also announced that Gates wanted to meet Trump at Mar-a-Lago? Maybe The Don wants to talk some sense into Elon. I mean, even RFK Jr.’s running mate sounds much more reasonable on this subject than Elon and Vivek. But I think it’s great that this debate is happening now, before Trump takes office.
“Now that you’ve angered us, we shall march forth as a unified army to hand your country over to the communists.” is certainly one way to make your h1b visa argument.
Get back in the fkg kitchen where you belong and start dinner. Then wash the dishes and start dessert.
She’s a Marxist through and through, trying to twist and use the debate to her own advantage.
This has nothing to do with Americans born in America – it has to do with foreign born being put ahead of and in place of American born using one of the big lies of her own in group about Americans.
I knew it wouldn’t be long before the worn out and false racist diatribe would start.
There are honest conversations to be had about race but this ain’t it.
Flat out Musk and Vivek attacked and slammed America and Americans – of all types, tones, and ethnic groups – and have used the same tactics as their former BFBs, the Democrats. They deserve every insult and slam they get in return.
Don’t shoot off nukes and expect to be responded to with diplomatic overtures.
Vivek Ramaswamy, BORN IN CINCINNATI, OHIO! Raised and educated IN THAT SAME PLACE! Then went on to Harvard! HECWAS NOT BORN INTO A THIRD WORLD MIDEVIL CASTE DRIVEN SOCIETY WHERE HIS FUTURE AND FATE WOULD BE PREDETERMINED BY THIS MIDEVIL CASTE SYSTEM! No he was born into a Country THAT ALLIWED HIM THE FREEDOM TO BE THE BEST HE CAN BE! THINK ABOUT THAT VIVEK BEFORE YOU SHOOT OFF YOUR PIE HOLE!!!😝😡😤😵💫🤐
Not caps…..O-1 Visa: Individuals with Extraordinary Ability or Achievement
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/o-1-visa-individuals-with-extraordinary-ability-or-achievement
No H1B caps for colleges and universities, non profits
Additionally, H-1B workers who are petitioned for or employed at an institution of higher education or its affiliated or related nonprofit entities, a nonprofit research organization, or a government research organization, are not subject to this numerical cap.
https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/h-1b-specialty-occupations
There should be NO H1B workers in those “specialty occupations.” Not one.
I think we’re seeing how Paul Ryan got to be Paul Ryan.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
HIB visas should only be part of the discussion when we’re talking about being replaced.
Found out some interesting things about the Indian/ Pakistani caste system, and small business
administration loans about 20 years ago.
My son had a childhood friend who’s mother had married ( and divorced) a man from Pakistan.
She had lived in Pakistan for about 3 years, then moved back to the U.S.
If you’ve stayed in many, many, many hotels or motels in the US you might’ve noticed that
you see the same last name for ownership. Over, and over, and over. Patel.
I was having a discussion about what living in Pakistan had been like with the mother. She
was the person that alerted me to why you see the name “Patel” so frequently in the front lobby
of hotels. “Patel” literally translates to “innkeeper” in India and Pakistan.
Won’t discuss how, but I came upon a magazine that had been left lying around . It
was about seminars for Small Business Administration businesses. It was geared, mainly, to
the hospitality industry, but it was highly evident that American born individuals weren’t
invited to the party.
I obtained a form for a Small Business Administration Loan, just to see how people qualified.
This was around 1998. There were a whole lot of columns to be checked off for qualifying for
SBA loans: black, female, American Indian, Pacific Islander, Asian…… notably absent was one
thing. If you happened to be a white male, the Small Business Administration folks didn’t want
to bother with you.
How many native borns do you see in convenience stores? In gas stations? In motels along the
interstate ( a friend that traveled for work told me that he would choose whether or not to stay
at a hotel by whether the owner’s wife at the desk had a red or blue dot on their forehead. Direct
link to the cleanliness of the hotel.) In Dairy Queens, owned by Warren Buffet? All the Dairy
Queens around Atlanta are Indian or Pakistani owned. The one in my hometown is, and the
owners are great people. Service, cleanliness top notch.
BUT if we’re going to talk immigration, HIBI visas, and a whole lot of other, related issues:
start taking a hard look at how the Small Business Administration has been picking out winners
and losers for decades.
Deplorable/untouchable… Mox nix!
Every Assisted living, board and care facilities, nurses, drs. hire foreign workers – I have seen it because of my sister and Mother living in these places. You rarely walk into these places seeing an American or White staff – they are all on work visas or allowed in illegally. This is a major industry that few talk about – if ICE walked into any of these places they would see that all of them are hired in place of white Americans. I have talked with some of the workers and most are from the Philippines and the owners of these board and care and assisted living facilities brought them in illegally. Most do not have papers but the owners some how hire them. ICE would be very busy. Also medical facilities – notice that there are very few white. I wonder so many time – where do white people work – you rarely see them! Target, Cosco, restaurants, hotels, pharmacies, etc. Whites are a minority now and UCI university in Irvine, Ca is almost 75% Chinese – it is exploding to the ruin off America
I have talked about it many times. It is one of the many ways they steal our elections.
I also started to realize this in the medical field…I recently went to a new cardiologist and noticed about 50 percent of the doctors pictured on the wall of the practice were Indian…didn’t think much of it at the time but now….
We had a Whole Foods supermarket open up a few weeks ago. We spent some time in the prepared foods/bakery section and asked for assistance on a few purchases. Everyone in the area spoke broken English and seemed to be from African or Caribbean countries. It took me three attempts to ask someone where there was a scale that I could weigh the food on, and that was me speaking slowly and using all the gestures and body language I could. Despite all that, their prices, without the 10% you get from being an Amazon Prime member, were around 20% higher than the competition.
I’d grocery shop at Whole Foods if they had financing.
US President Trump says he supports immigration visas for highly skilled workers, siding with Elon Musk.
“I have many H-1B visas on my properties. I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program.”
Someone send him his tweet from 2016.
What happened PDJT? Why are you lying ?
And it’s time you ended that, Trump. Now.
“But we can _beat lung cancer_ without giving up smoking!” — That’s how everyone’s pro-slavery H1B argument sounds, to me.
Big difference in highly skilled workers and how the system is currently used.
would have been nice if Trump mentioned something about that… I smell Jr.
Go peddle your BS elsewhere.
If you don’t have a direct link to a PDJT social media post or a video of him stating this, you are nothing more than a globalist chew toy.
Sounds like Musk and Vivek aren’t going for ‘highly skilled’ but rather simply skilled enough to learn the trade. There’s a difference. Disappointed in President Trump and will no longer have anything good to say about the other two.
Bottom Line:
When Elon Musk said: ‘F U in the face!’, what he really said was to Donald Trump which was ‘F U in your base!
What makes the muskrat guard his musk?
There are some things you cannot buy.
Opened a gab acct thanks to Elon and saw a Gab post of Sundance’s from x.
Posting Sundance’s warning for Elon and Vivek here for others that don’t have an x acct either.
https://gab.com/ghostgold/posts/113732027913431155
It was not part of their blood,
It came to them very late,
With long arrears to make good,
When the Saxon began to hate.
They were not easily moved,
They were icy — willing to wait.
Till every count should be proved,
Ere the Saxon began to hate.
Their voices were even and low.
Their eyes were level and straight.
There was neither sign nor show.
When the Saxon began to hate.
It was not preached to the crowd.
It was not taught by the state.
No man spoke it aloud.
When the Saxon began to hate.
It was not suddently bred.
It will not swiftly abate.
Through the chilled years ahead,
When Time shall count from the date.
That the Saxon began to hate.
Very true, King George found out the hard way during that other revolution.
It’s ride or die time.
There is another that has been shared that is pertinent to the discussion. It’s directly applicably to Musky’s threat…
“The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone.
They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love.
They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it.
They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over.
The moment the Men who wanted to be left alone are forced to fight back, it is a form of suicide.
They are literally killing off who they used to be.
Which is why, when forced to take up violence, these Men who wanted to be left alone, fight with unholy vengeance against those who murdered their former lives.
They fight with raw hate, and a drive that cannot be fathomed by those who are merely play-acting at politics and terror.
TRUE TERROR will arrive at these people’s door, and they will cry, scream, and beg for mercy… but it will fall upon the deaf ears of the Men who just wanted to be left alone.” – Author Unknown
Trump supports immigration visas backed by Musk: ‘I have many H-1B visas on my properties’
Exclusive | Donald Trump backs H-1B visa program supported by Elon Musk
President-elect Trump told The Post Saturday he supports immigration visas for highly skilled workers, appearing to side with Elon Musk in the roiling intra-MAGA debate on the issue.
“I’ve always liked the visas, I have always been in favor of the visas. That’s why we have them,” Trump said by phone, referring to the H-1B program, which permits companies to hire foreign workers in specialty occupations.
“I have many H-1B visas on my properties. I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program,” added Trump, who restricted access to foreign worker visas in his first administration and has been critical of the program in the past.
Trump flip flops on h1b visas.
Historically, he always lands on the pro side, despite what his tiresome _bluster_ says.
the INDEPENDENT – UK
Trump claims he employs many people on ‘great’ H-1B visas as MAGA civil war over program grows
Trump sides with Elon Musk as top lieutenant clashes with anti-immigration MAGA supporters over H-1B visa program for skilled workers
Speaking to The New York Post, the president-elect sided with two of his top lieutenants, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, after they both defended the need for hiring workers from overseas in tech, engineering, and other sectors.
[…]
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-news-elon-musk-vivek-ramaswamy-h1b-maga-b2670910.html
=========================
The New York Post
Trump supports immigration visas backed by Musk: ‘I have many H-1B visas on my properties’
President-elect Trump told The Post Saturday he supports immigration visas for highly skilled workers, appearing to side with Elon Musk in the roiling intra-MAGA debate on the issue.
“I’ve always liked the visas, I have always been in favor of the visas. That’s why we have them,” Trump said by phone, referring to the H-1B program, which permits companies to hire foreign workers in specialty occupations.
“I have many H-1B visas on my properties. I’ve been a believer in H-1B. I have used it many times. It’s a great program,” added Trump, who restricted access to foreign worker visas in his first administration and has been critical of the program in the past.
[…]
https://nypost.com/2024/12/28/us-news/donald-trump-backs-h-1b-visa-program-supported-by-elon-musk/
It’s all fake news produced by Rupert Murfoch’s NYPost.
The “” don’t mean anything in the land of lies and deception.
Trump’s long public record on immigration and America First speaks for itself.
I pray you are correct.
Calling customer service with Amazon, Apple, banks, all are foreigners. You have to ask over and over for them to repeat because you do not understand them and you just want to hang up on them. What is worse is they have your account number, card number, etc. when you try to get an answer to your question or order something, etc. IT is beyond changing – it is done, they are hired for low pay, etc, and have the grip to stay on board with major companies. There is no way to stop it. It literally infuriates when I hear their Indian accent knowing they are not in the USA.
This is Stephen Miller.
“A passion for America”
The fk they do.
PDJT saying he’s always loved h1b visas is the biggest let down of America’s forgotten man and he hasn’t even been inaugurated.
Trump either lied to us in 2016 or he’s lying now. Looks like he doesn’t need MAGA anymore. He’s not running again.
just stuff it … all you’ve done is bellyache all day on this topic. I’ll trust the man who almost DIED to do the right thing. Elon Musk or Ramy are POTUS. He hasn’t even taken office yet and ya’ll wanna abandon ship.
Well … go ahead. We will Make America Great Again while you diddle with the dummcrats.
Musk is desperately trying to eliminate the true American First members of PDJT’s cabinet…
Note that Musk’s definition of racist is the same as Pelosi’s and Schumer’s…
No it isn’t.
Really? He defends a self-certified racist that hates white people, then tells anyone who disagrees with him to go F themselves in the face and says he’ll go to war over his precious cheap labor based H-1B visa slaves. But no – he doesn’t mean it the same way…
Here is exactly where his moronic comment was made – in association with a Democrat who tried to state that people against H1B visas don’t view her as an American. I commented on her post elsewhere and the utter lie she is trying to foist in order to try to get others back on the Democrat’s plantation. F-Face agreed and that’s when he made his comment. If you dare disagree with his royal F-Face, you are a racist, just like Pelosi and Schumer and the rest of the Democrats do it.
Here he is effectively calling anyone who disagrees with him subtards (same sucker fish he previously responded to) and tries to twist things to say it’s all about meritocracy when it absolutely is NOT, even from his globalist, F-America stance. It’s about cheap slave labor that is compliant.
Here ole F-Face agrees with one of his lil suckers, who is a grifter and has tried to find a way to immigrate to the US for years, desperately trying to ingratiate himself as a path in. The result is ole F-Face agreeing that anyone who dares to disagree with his lies and desire for slave labor from another country is a retarded. He is employing the EXACT same tactics as Pelosi and Schumer use with those who disagree with them.
Trump needs to stop what he is doing and make a statement on his SM. Just do it and clear it all up.
Trump has failed his MAGA base.
New motto:
M*GA
Not even close.
Well, he has weighed in now. He is on the tech side.
The annual H-1B visa program does not offer unlimited opportunities. The H-1B program allows U.S. employers to temporarily employ foreign workers in occupations that require the theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge and a bachelor’s degree or higher in the specific specialty, or its equivalent. Currently there is an annual numerical limit of 65,000 visas each fiscal year (known as the “Regular cap”). There are an additional 20,000 H-1B visas available for beneficiaries with a master’s degree or higher from a U.S. institution of higher education (known as the “Master’s cap”). The Regular cap is further reduced by carve-outs for the H-1B1 visa for nationals of Chile and Singapore under the provisions of free trade agreements between the U.S. and each country, leaving the actual number of Regular cap H-1B visas that are available at 58,200.
Bull sht
Spinoneone is absolutely correct. Here is the link to the H1-B program info. Maybe you should read it before you call BS on the comment.
https://internationaloffice.berkeley.edu/h-1b_faqs#2
Berkeley keeps our records?
You are being obtuse. Berkley has simply provided info on the program. If you choose not to be informed, so be it.
No. They just summarize them. The full H1b rules can be found via search, here.
https://www.uscis.gov/
Thank you.
From another viewpoint those are 85,000 jobs that were taken from Americans each year. While the program had good intentions, it much like all govt programs, is being abused.
That may be the case.
and THAT is what the program IS ….. people are all up in arms while Biden has destroyed this country. I’ve seen more *fits* over this one lil program than everything Biden has done to this country.
Abandon ship … we’ll MAGA without you
and that’s why last year there were over 700,000. your post misses the mark, completely ignores the abuse.
key phrase: highly specialized knowledge
In regard to coding: scientific or device control, yeah that’s highly specialized (for example modelling physical, chemical,or biological processes; rocket control); business applications, webpages etc, no.
DEI = Anglo-Saxon Americans don’t get the job
H1B= Anglo-Saxen Americans don’t get the job
See the difference?
I’m glad the idolatry of Elon Musk is finally coming to an end and his phony side is finally being discussed.
Many have warned (to no avail) of the true Ellen. Some of his past statements and history:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2024/12/26/elon-musk-vivek-ramaswamy-and-the-silicon-valley-tech-millionaire-group-continue-lambasting-americans-while-advocating-for-expanded-foreign-worker-visas/comment-page-10/#comment-11423097
Elon and Vivek supposedly will run DOGE. Any “journalist” just out of school can tie these two in knots endlessly. “Do you intend to get rid of US employees and replace them with H1b employees?” is the opener with 100,000 possible follow-ups.
Meanwhile Trump’s immigration czar’s armed cohorts will be chasing down Mexicans here who had “no opportunity” for a visa. The optics are child’s play to manipulate.
Here is a link to info regarding the H-1B program. May provide info to some commenters here who know little about the program.
https://internationaloffice.berkeley.edu/h-1b_faqs#2
Why does it say Berkeley.edu and not a government agency?
Email Berkley and ask them.
I posted this upthread. The rules, summarized at the Berkeley link, can be found here.
https://www.uscis.gov/
Thanks for posting this link.
And all of the “rules” are being strictly adhered to.
I doubt that, but it’s good to know what the rules actually are if we’re going to debate them. Or at least know where to find them 🙂
Note that H1B visas went DOWN while PDJT was in office…those falling for the left’s BS regarding his stance are fools.
And for 2025 the applicants are way down to below the 2024 level–2025= 479,953 registrations with 470, 342 approved for consideration. And once again only 85,000 are allowed out of that 470,342.
Wow, by a whole 40,000, from an all-time high (during his tenure) of 236,000… That’s hardly ending the abuse of H1B, as he promised. But some are just suckers for less-than-mediocrity, I guess.
Considering the congressional team he was working against and the laws implemented during Dopey’s tenure, he did surprising well getting it down by 17%. I would further note that ending abuse doesn’t mean the elimination of them all together – nor can executive actions do so.
Then, I suspect you much prefer Brandon’s reign of stupidity…
Over the decades I have worked with more than a few H1B people. Like any number, there are good ones and those who aren’t.
For the most part, they are cheap and acceptable. As far as software development goes I am NOT talking about programing here, ie given strict rules to follow a recipe to produce a given product. I’m talking about basic development work.
Few understand what this means. This kind of work requires very independent thought, a lot of experience and fortitude. Meetings and micromanagement are viewed as a waste of time.
Bottom line – very few H1B or even native citizens are capable but given a ton of management, most are usable.
Musk and his ilk should not be so blatant in talent discrimination, just because you happen to be a brilliant H1B doesn’t mean everyone is.
I’m getting the feeling that someone more POWERFUL than Elon is putting BIG pressure on Elon to bow to the RING and bend the knee to SUPER tech KING Pin! They have something on Elon, and Elon is not the dancing and Jumping MAGA star of a month or 2 ago. (DARK MAGA indeed).
The bulk of Elon’s financial “success” rests on the backs of the American tax payer’s subsidies. He owes more to us than we owe to him.
Rule number one:
FOLLOW THE MONEY!
Who will
pick our cottonbuild our computers if we don’t import the labor from this one specific area of the world?The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Should have assembled our own chips.
Remembering that AI is the goal:
They want the cheapest labor because it is taking too long and costing too much to develop these AI systems which will be utilized to run all societies.
American labor is not desired because we still have a streak of independence. We and the Europeans need to be diminished for the incoming Technocratic world.
Taking our eye off their goals and trying to find a compromise with them will cause us to still end up diminished.
We could decide what the best purpose of their AI should be for our own benefit not our own demise. This is a part of the conversation we might be having.
Yeah, and HB1 are never going to whistle blow that the AI they are working on is inherently evil by design.
Where a native worker very well could.
Also isn’t desired because we would expose them.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2024/12/28/a-highly-toxic-silicon-valley-meltdown-over-well-documented-h1b-visa-fraud-explodes/comment-page-4/#comment-11423305
Elon called us “contemptible fools”, Hillary said we were “deplorables”, and De Santis insulted us by saying we were “listless vessels” how did that work out for them.?
I was an engineering and construction executive in the telecom industry during the 70s 80s and 90s. I lived in the middle of Silicon Valley when there were still plum tree orchards where now stand parking lots for the Intel Corporate Headquarters. The explosion of tech companies in that period of time, in that small area, was astounding. My company, Sprint, was in competition with all of that expansion at the same time Sprint was expanding massively. In the 80s it became more and more difficult to find high tech talent. There just wasn’t enough technical talent to go around on a local basis to go around. We had a nationwide hiring program, of course, which relied on military technology people coming out of the military and college graduates. That well ran dry finally. And I noticed in the late 80s that new talent from overseas was starting to show up in Silicon Valley. Mostly in the software design and manufacturing skills area. If that influx of talent had not happened, the US dominance in Tech would have collapsed at a very critical time.
The true issue here is that, as a country, our education system must re-tool to regain the high-tech advantage our country used to enjoy. Our universities and colleges must be purged of DEI Professors, the teach garbage and communism, and get back to the heyday of the 50’s 60’s and 70s when we were turning out high-tech talent regularly and dominating the world’s hi tech stage.
Until then we must have the best and brightest, wherever we can find them to reclaim our rightful dominance of the high-tech world.
This very important dialogue and discussion that is being staged right now is very important. President Trump must bring everyone together, high-tech, corporations, and a revamped competitive government structure that will help reshape our business climate, especially in the high-tech area, eliminating greed and focusing on wage equality to once again, make America great again in the world of high tech.
Well said. China and India lead in STEM graduates.
In order for the US to lead in AI development and other high tech areas as President Trump wants, the best and brightest is required now. They must be hired from abroad because the US does not graduate enough candidates, nor is there time to train them. They are needed NOW to stay ahead of China.
I suspect Musk and Ramaswamy are following Trump’s orders to make the US the king of AI and technology.
Unfortunately, people do not understand this, and unfortunately the US education system is being dumbed down and lagging in graduating highly educated individuals in the STEM fields.
And trolls pollute the comments to promote hate and dissention.
Unaccredited university graduates in India who fudge their resumes. How can we get by without them.
I was there when there were still fruit trees. IBM was a really big deal. Grew up in Cambell and went to Santa’s workshop up 17.
Spoken like a true executive that doesn’t know his front side from his back side and whom believes that propaganda shoved down your throat. BTW, the plum trees still exist on the other side of the mountain.
I’m all for “high-skill” visas, but ONLY if they are used to steal absolute cream of the crop talent from other countries and NOT as a cost-saving measure as they currently are, one-for-one replacing US workers.
Untold Stories: The American Workers Replaced by the H-1B Visa Program
May 4, 2019
https://cis.org/Report/Untold-Stories-American-Workers-Replaced-H1B-Visa-Program
[snip]
Big corporations and their lobbyists will often claim that there is a “shortage” of American STEM workers that necessitates an ever-growing number of “high-skill” visas, such as H-1B, L-1, and H4 EAD. This is absolutely false.
In fact, only about a third of natives with college degrees in STEM fields actually hold STEM jobs, meaning there are millions of Americans who could be recruited prior to turning to foreigners.1 Foreign-educated immigrants are also less-skilled than U.S. degree holders when it comes to tests on numeracy, literacy, and computer operations.2 Foreign-educated immigrants with a college or advanced degree perform at about the level of Americans with only a high school diploma, according to test scores.
[snip]
Key takeaways:
There is no shortage of qualified American STEM workers — most Americans with STEM degrees work in other industries, and American graduates outperform foreign-educated immigrants when tested on a range of skills.
The H-1B program has transformed over time from a means to supplement the American tech workforce to a means of cheaply replacing it.
Americans who are replaced by H-1B guestworkers are often forced to train their replacements or risk losing their severance.
Foreign STEM workers often come from sham universities abroad — particularly in India — and have far fewer specialized skills than they claim.
President Trump and members of Congress ought to meet with laid off American STEM workers in order to hear their stories.
The Victims’ Stories
[snip]
Those wouldn’t be H-1B visas…there is a separate visa program for such talent.
Apparently, the Xverse is a little late to the H1b fight. Here are the new rules enacted on December 18, 2024 and effective on January 17, 2025.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/12/18/2024-29354/modernizing-h-1b-requirements-providing-flexibility-in-the-f-1-program-and-program-improvements
In B.2 they exempt nonprofits and government research entities from the statutory limit on H1B visas.
“Specifically, through this rulemaking, DHS is changing the definition of “nonprofit research organization” and “governmental research organization” by replacing the terms “primarily engaged” and “primary mission” with “fundamental activity” to permit nonprofit entities or governmental research organizations that conduct research as a fundamental activity, but are not primarily engaged in research or where research is not a primary mission, to meet the definition of a nonprofit research entity or governmental research organization for purposes of establishing exemption from the annual statutory limit on H-1B visas.”
Yep. That one jumped out at me. I think there’s another one that applies to universities.
I strongly disagree with any exemptions from immigration policies and I don’t like that statement.
In my prior experience in both public and private institutions of higher learning, I have observed the following.
It is hard to hire staff for universities in California. You find great candidates on the east coast that see the beautiful place and big sounding salary.
Then they realize that the cost of living is three or more times more expensive than where they are, life is better where they are, and they turn it down. You are faced with a limited pool of workers who already live here in California.
We never hired H1B, just students for grunt work and poached skilled staff from other institutions of higher learning.
Currently there are many unfilled positions. Some take a year or more to fill in specialized fields.
While it’s medicine and not university related, the medical profession in small cities have trouble attracting workers too.
I know of a small town on the Northern California coast that had to close down the cardiology imaging department because they can’t attract a certified technician to the area.
The previous technician gave three years notice so they could hire and train a replacement. There were many people who applied, paid for travel and then rejected the job.
Place has been closed a couple of years now and people have to drive to Oregon for the nearest heart scan.
Then they realize that the cost of living is three or more times more expensive than where they are, life is better where they are, and they turn it down. You are faced with a limited pool of workers who already live here in California.
So do you think the answer is to utilize cheap foreign labor because the local salaries aren’t competitive and the governmental environment is borderline hellish?
The new regulation we were discussing states that the feds exempt nonprofits and government research entities from the statutory limit on H1B visas.
I said, I strongly disagree with any exemptions from immigration policies and I don’t like that statement.
I don’t know how I could be any clearer.
What followed was just observations from someone on the west coast.
Yes, they made them even worse from the perspective of Americans…
Yes. That was my point. I’m not in favor of expanding rather than reforming h1b in case you got that impression from my posts. I just don’t think the current discourse on the issue is properly focused or fair.
You had actually provided no point – just a vague assertion about people on X. 🙂
What specific discourse do you think those things about, as I’ve seen a very diverse range of discussions and comments regarding it both here and ‘out there’ in other environs.
What do you think is “not fair” about it? (specifics)
As far as focus – anytime you have very large groups of people discussing a topic in what is effectively a free-for-all format which has all the facets and history as this one, focus is not likely to be a thing on the broader scale.
Saying they’re not able to find talented Americans simply reveals how woke their HR department and that HR only has India on speed dial.
Not being able to find talented Americans reveals how broken our education system is. Our society has devolved to the point where we no longer allow ourselves to educate our younger generation to its fullest potential. This is a problem that did not manifest itself overnight, and so it can not be repaired in such short order either. The H1B visa program is a Band-Aid on a broken arm. At first it might appear to help, but in this situation applying that Band-Aid is only introducing serious infection into the wound, not helping it.
Their hr departments are probably Indian. Too.
Nicole Shanahan may be correct in saying this: I was asked if teaching American kids coding from a younger age would make them want these coding jobs. My response? No, it won’t. These jobs aren’t fun, people.
I would add that many people in this country have worked jobs that “aren’t fun” but the pay was sufficient to allow one parent to choose to stay home and raise the kids, or to send their children to college without bankrupting themselves or getting caught in the “financial aid” trap, or in many cases were sufficient to allow the family to build a nice house in a nice area (doesn’t mean a mansion in Martha’s Vineyard!), or take vacations to Disneyworld – in other words, The American Dream.
Where I grew up those jobs were in steel mills and on assembly lines of auto manufacturing plants- in some cases dangerous and dirty jobs, or tedious, long hours with mandatory OT. Those jobs are gone. And the people would like to have the chance to choose having a job that isn’t “fun”, but a family life that is.
Well said.
Jeff Childers has a great column from yesterday that I just read regarding this very issue; take a look…….
https://www.coffeeandcovid.com/p/doge-days-of-the-color-war-friday?
Thanks for posting this. I would suggest every commenter read it.
The US does not graduate enough highly trained STEM people.
President Trump wants the US to be #1 in AI and technology. He wants to prevent China from being the world leader in this area. In order to accomplish this, graduates are needed NOW. There is no time to train people. Thus, hiring talent from abroad.
Musk and Ramaswamy are carrying out Trump’s directive.
MAGA people need to stop getting their knickers twisted over this and creating divisiveness in the movement over these H-1B visas. Like the article said….think logically instead of emotionally
The number of H-1B legal, highly educated, foreign immigrants are a drop in the bucket in comparison to the millions of uneducated illegals allowed into the country who financially cost the country billions of dollars in services each year.
I suggest people calm down and trust that President Trump knows what he is doing. Stop the gaslighting! The deep state and Democrats are loving you for doing so.
bs
Send Musk back to South Africa and confiscate his American-taxpayor-subsidized companies. If he has no more regard for the American taxpayer then he can kiss a$$.
Frankly, Donald Trump is a fool to side with Musk on this issue. A fool. It is the opening the Republican party can use to ditch him.
We sorely need a Truth clarification us natives be restless.
Here is an interesting article written Nov 27/2023 regarding STEM graduates in several countries.
https://cset.georgetown.edu/article/the-global-distribution-of-stem-graduates-which-countries-lead-the-way/
China and India lead all countries in STEM graduates.
In 2020, the US was ranked 8th for the number of STEM graduates as a percentage of total graduates. China, Russia, Germany, Iran, India, France and Mexico produce more STEM graduates.
Might be another reason why there are so many H-1B visas issued. The US is lagging in STEM education which is absolutely critical for jobs in the tech world and many other industries.
WHAT percentage of US STEM graduates were foreign students? That is the REAL tell!
Not sure. That is the tell, especially if there are far fewer US students capable of graduating from these programs.
I did find a stat which indicated that only 79% of US adults are literate, and of these 79%, only 56% can read at a grade 6 level. Pretty sad indicator of how far the education system has fallen, and how much it has been infested with woke garbage, DEI nonsense, and mediocrity.
F off yourself, Musk, I know of people in tech and IT who had to train their H1B replacements and lost their jobs thereafter.
It really gets my goat how they promoted students to go into STEM, especially tech, and then they have to compete with foreigners for the jobs.
I’d like to step back from this issue, and try it from a different focus. When I joined the faculty of one of America’s premier research institutions in 1974, the students in my first year course as a group had a knowledge base and critical thinking and writing skills comparable to my own when I graduated high school in 1963. When I chose to retire from my job in 2014, I did so in no small part because I could no longer do it. The average first year student was now performing at an eighth grade level, which speaks to the wholesale collapse of K-12 public education in this country over the past two generations. At the same time, the displacement of merit in the hiring process was also steadily filling the ranks of the faculty with the sorts of characters that many of us here have mocked in our comments for a long, long time. Is there anyone here seriously prepared to defend American higher education as we find it today?
Note that I am talking about demonstrable skill sets here, and have yet to touch upon the mindset that young people were bringing to the classroom for the last twenty-five years of my career. Here my perspective can be simply stated: we are now reaping what we have sown. Apart from the meat counter, the two grocery stores at which I shop have very few people on the floor less than fifty years of age. Business owners with whom I am friends uniformly complain that interviewing young people for jobs is an exercise in pulling their hair out. The entitlement mentality, which led me to retire in 2014, has simply sunk deeper into the American ethos over the last decade.
Do these visa programs need to be revisited? Yes, they do. But so does the American classroom, the welfare system that has eliminated any incentive to do menial labor, and numerous other now institutionalized practices that have eviscerated the America in which I was born and raised. We have done this to ourselves, and blaming others for our mistakes is not how we are going to dig ourselves out of this mess.
What you are claiming here has been echoed by the vast majority of Treepers over the entire 10 year span of my time here. Now, there seems to be, a mass amnesia sweeping over The Treehouse?
On top of that, now President Trump is UNIPARTY!!!
Good observation and one I completely agree with.
You make assertions that aren’t true and/or badly distorted.
There is a vast difference in discussing portions of society and regions of our nation, versus the sweeping generalizations that are being attempted by Vivek, Elon, and others – including you.
My comment that you are responding to was a response to ” John Evans” which was a lengthy post. I was agreeing with “John Evans”. So now for me to agree with someone’s comments I need to back their comments with links?
Really?? I thought you were agreeing with billy bob joe…
You didn’t assert that YOU agreed with him – you asserted that the vast majority of the conversations with the branches of the treehouse were echoed by him. It is that which I addressed, with specific reasons.
That’s it in a nutshell! Well said! Hopefully everyone reads what you wrote!
We are talking about whites who have graduated from the same american colleges that the indians graduated from. Whites don’t get the jobs.
There is a problem with your anecdotal input. It represents one school or area and is more likely caused by the institution’s own policies regarding admissions and recruiting, then it is by the lower level schools.
My own experiences are that there are a significant number of intelligent, motivated, and skilled younger people who shun not only the death culture that is both real and has been fostered predominately by the Democrats – but also shun the specific colleges that are part and parcel of the problem.
I would agree with you that there needs to be changes within our nation’s schools and teaching force, as well as a return to the principles and practices that were once valued so highly in many areas of the nation. However, to try to paint the entire nation and all her people with the same broad strokes is the exact same issue that Elon and Vivek have and is just as wrong. In their case, the issue is themselves and their companies at multiple levels – it isn’t the availability of talent.
I’m sorry, but there is far more than one school or area at issue here. Would you like your offspring to attend present-day Harvard? Columbia? Penn? Georgetown? Duke? Michigan? Wisconsin? Minnesota? Washington? Oregon? Cal Berkeley? Stanford? UCLA? USC? Arizona State? Colorado? UTAustin?
I would encourage you and everyone else here to obtain a current undergraduate course catalog from your alma mater, and peruse it with care. If you are not aware of how ubiquitous the rot is in mainstream departments like English and History, never mind the endlessly proliferating Centers devoted to this and that, it’s a worth while exercise. A second thing to examine closely are distribution requirements. This is where you will find climate indoctrination and other pet projects so beloved by the progressive movement deeply inserted in the curriculum.
In 1974 and 2014, there were two constants. First, the best students were the home schooled, and the graduates of elite academies. The worst prepared were the products of inner city and rural schools, although hardly for the same reason. The big change over time was in the Catholic schools (slow erosion) and suburban schools (very rapid decline). How rapid was the collapse of public education in the suburbs? Again, take a look at distribution requirements, this time focusing on credits devoted to remedial coursework. At Minnesota, in 1977 there were remedial programs in only two departments; in 1989, my department became the 41st to throw in the towel. By the mid-nineties, a five year degree program had become the norm, and by 2014 six years was no longer raising eyebrows.
This mess has been bubbling away for half a century or more. A good point of demarcation in our urban centers is the school busing mandates imposed by the courts. Yes. Bush’s No Child Left Behind policy was a catastrophe, but it was driving nails into a coffin that was already firmly sealed.
I wouldn’t waste a moments time on any of the schools you mentioned – not one – and am very well aware of the rot you mentioned within them and others. You seem to still refuse to understand the differences – and agreements – in our views, determined to “defend” your own instead. One important place to start is for you to realize that not all schools or people are like those you are familiar with…
The constants you point out between the two times are valid – although there are some missing. It appears that you had no experience with those of talent educated in military adjacent schools (which are quite separate and distinct from military academies). I would also strongly suspect that you had absolutely zero interaction with children raised in strong Christian homes that instilled foundational American values and ethics – as they too wouldn’t go anywhere near the schools you mentioned. (note that I don’t mean the “woke pretend, corrupt churches that have been just as infested as the schools) Then there are those who went to school in places that were of the same values, who didn’t and still have not “gone woke” or abandoned teaching children instead of indoctrinating children. You also seem to be unaware of those whose upbringing and innate abilities allow them to flourish in almost any environment they chose and to resist the indoctrination and peer pressures exerted upon many of our youth.
The bottom line I think is thus – there is a tremendous amount of work to do in a majority of our schools at all levels. This we can agree on. It also appears that you would agree that the visa programs need to be adjusted. I think the only difference there is in how much and what manner. I’m on the side of elimination of H-1B all together and a general moratorium on general immigration for a number of years until those here legally are assimilated, we make significant corrections to our own house as it were, and we purge every single person that arrived illegally. Then and only then should ‘regular’ immigration commence with significant restrictions – including that immigrants can’t receive a single dime of taxpayer money in any form – be it SNAP, tax credits, or any others – until 5 years AFTER they become CITIZENS.
Part of those corrections to our own house includes the elimination of the post tower of babel nonsense of catering to the language needs of people’s countries of origin. If you wish to live in America, work in America, or be an American – then learn the language. The same goes for voting and every other aspect of our society. Far too much time and too many resources are wasted in catering to those either too lazy to learn our language – or determined not to expend the effort to do so. Don’t care what your age or background is. The same can be said for knowledge of our Constitution with its Bill of Rights and the founding principles of our nation.
All of that said, it is really outside the discussion at hand, which is about the desire for unfettered H-1B visas. The bottom line for that topic is that Musk and Vivek can go do exactly what Musk suggested Americans do. We know the truth regarding the visas and we aren’t buying their crap or bowing to their threats. The H-1B program is nothing more than a compliant slave labor conduit – always has been. If exceptional talent were truly a need, that is what the O-1 visa program is for. Even it needs severe modifications, as the included fields are far too broad and include arts and humanities.
1.6K comments and the day isn’t even over! Wow! Good job Elon, picking that scab!
Scab? Hah, more like unintentionally bringing focus to sepsis.
I wonder how long President Trump will wait to put something on Truth to grab this issue by the horns.
This is too big and too important to his base to just have Steve Miller say H1B will be fixed. Does that mean a little tweaking to calm the crowd?
I saw the 2016 Trump position was to END H1b.
Have the tech giants offered him a DEAL that he couldn’t refuse? Or was it 30 pieces of silver?
I really want to know his stand on this.
Will he side with Americans or will the I’s (Isreal and India) have his allegiance?
He is really being an ass by not making a statement. A bigly brown ass.
Trump took Musk’s side. It’s on the NY Post.
This is not good.
I saw that but I want to either put something on truth or in a public video to clear up his silence.
Trump created DOGE to address government efficiency. By appointing Musk to lead DOGE Trump gave Musk a political stature he did not have.
Musk has taken the stature afforded him by DOGE and abused it to promote his own ideas regarding immigration and labor policy, neither of which are within the scope of DOGE. Worse, he has viciously attacked Americans opposed to these ideas of his.
Musk has shown a complete lack of discretion, his remarks are causing problems for Trump. He’s also shown utter contempt for Americans whose subsidies have enabled him to amass great wealth.
As far as I’m concerned this ego maniac is persona non grata. He needs to go.
Breitbart reporting PDJT in the NY Post says he likes HB1 -has people on his properties with them, was always in favor-thinks its a great program.
Then maybe he should tap Nicole Shanahan to head the effort to clean this up and the head off the fracture I see coming if it isn’t. There is a middle ground, an acceptable way ahead, and I think she has it.
Indeed. Close the borders, and restrict entry to legal immigrants. Reform the visa programs, which it should be stressed are legal. And the big one from my point of view: create a guest-worker program so that we no longer have to look the other way and pretend not to know that for decades our fruits and vegetables have been harvested by illegals.
Sundance is fond of saying that to be a leftist you have to pretend not to know things. Sadly, what we are seeing right now is that there is at least one issue on which leftists aren’t the only ones pretending not to know things.
You do realize that there is, and has been for decades, a migrant worker program to help with harvests – right?
Are you aware that one of the strongest historical voices on the subject, Cesar Chavez, was at many times against both legal and illegal immigration into the US? They are now H-2A visas…
I’m oft reminded of the way the “media” took a few of the words that PDJT uttered about the Charlottesville events and twisted them beyond recognition to push their narrative.
I urge caution in regards to PDJT.
Asperger’s syndrome might have been a little to blame…
President Hoover knew that one way to protect American jobs during the depression was to end the source of cheap labor.
In 1932, President Hoover and the State Department largely closed off immigration to the United States during the Great Depression. This was done by:
Reducing the number of visas to almost zero
Encouraging state and local law enforcement to increase deportations
Encouraging voluntary repatriation to Europe and Mexico
Forcing the repatriation and deportation of between 500,000 and 2 million Mexican Americans
The number of immigrants to the United States dropped from 236,000 in 1929 to 23,000 in 1933. The total immigration from 1931 to 1940 averaged less than 53,000 per year.
This punchup has come at the best time. Trump will eventually go with MAGA and the Techies will be not win. However the immature hissy fits accords with their brilliance in one field only and the fact that many of them are Autistic /Aspergers types. Folks, Musk’s behaviour in particular is a pure Aspie “meltdown”. These people are unable to empathise. It’s part of their brain structure.
MAGA people need to contact Trump.
34 years working at Hewlett Packard as employee and contractor. About 3 years ago they early retired and layed off over 80 highly experienced R&D engineers in their inkjet division.
I was called back to do some liaison work getting a project stable for manufacturing release.
The campus was a ghost town. Managers were leading groups of 15-20 possible interns around to get them interested in committing. Not a blue eyed male to be seen.