President Donald Trump’s lawyer was asked about presidential immunity on Tuesday, by Federal Judge Florence Pan. The specifics of the question surrounded if President Trump could order SEAL Team Six to assassinate an American citizen (or presidential candidate) and if Absolute Immunity would apply.
President Trump’s attorney was prepared to answer the hypothetical question with a “qualified yes“; however, unfortunately the lawyer was not prepared to give Judge Pan a real-world example of this action that recently took place. It’s not a hypothetical; it was done recently. President Obama did exactly this.
CITATION – “Anwar al-‘Awlaqī; (April 1971 – 30 September 2011) was an American Islamic scholar and lecturer who was killed in 2011 in Yemen by a U.S. government drone strike ordered by President Barack Obama. Al-Awlaki became the first U.S. citizen to be targeted and killed by a drone strike from the U.S government.
President Barack Obama had absolute immunity for ordering the intentional killing of American citizen, Anwar al-Awlaqi. The issue of him being a presidential candidate is a non sequitur.
If Presidents did not have absolute immunity, or if the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals removes absolute immunity from President Trump, then Barack Obama can immediately be charged and arrested for killing al-Awlaqi. There is no statute of limitations for murder. Yes, this is the cold truth of the matter.
Additionally, 16-year-old American Citizen, Abdulrahman al-Awlaki, was killed in the same military assassination. Abdulrahman, a child, was standing next to his father; he was never accused of any wrongdoing; he was never charged with any unlawful conduct; he was an innocent bystander.
In 2011 when the Obama administration was questioned about killing the teenager, White House Spokesperson Robert Gibbs said, “I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well-being of their children. I don’t think becoming an al-Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business.”
You can find the legal analysis from the Justice Department Memo Approving Targeted Killing of Anwar Al-Awlaki [HERE]. There was no legal justification or approval for the killing of 16-year-old Abdulrahman al-Awlaki.
[Citation, pdf beginning Page 67]
If the DC Appeals Court removes “absolute immunity” in order to prosecute President Donald J Trump, then the next administration can formally charge President Barack Obama with the specific and unlawful killing of an American citizen, with malice aforethought and specific intent to kill; ie homicide. Additional charges of manslaughter for the killing of the 16-year-old son are easily justified.
There is no statute of limitations for murder.
See how that works?
.
Benny Johnson
@bennyjohnson
·
4m
https://abs-0.twimg.com/emoji/v2/svg/1f6a8.svg BREAKING Trump Beats DeSantis And Haley In Cable News Ratings
FOX: Trump: 4.335 million viewers
CNN: DeSantis/Haley: 2.587 million viewers
DeSantis/Haley audience was 80-90% dems.
So are DeSantis/Haley.
Well, no. DeSantis/Haley are 100% Dems.
That should be… Dem Equivalent
🤣🤣
Sorry I didn’t mean to flag this comment, fat thumb got in the way
Bam! Exactamundo!!!
I think if Trump’s attorney gave the real world answer the Judge would likely short-circuit.
Thank you for providing this excellent and concrete example of why this question matters so much! Praying that SCOTUS will have a modicum of courage, which they have thus far not shown, when this issue comes before them!
They will have no other choice but to rule in President Trumps favor.
To choose otherwise would be to show what a kangaroo court they have become with the double standard of Duh Won! not being charged.
“They will have no other choice but to rule in President Trumps favor.”: I agree wholeheartedly with this part of your comment.
However, although I don’t 100% agree with the second part. They will vote to rule in Trump’s favor but it will be to protect the Uniparty Presidents, including Biden, who have actually broken the law. Not to hide double standards. If it was to hide double standards Jack Smith’s case would have been thrown out. Fanni Willis’s case ended as well as the others.
Nice shot across the bow, Sundance!
You just exposed to ‘them’ their own liabilities if ‘they’ continue down this path.
And We all know “they” are monitoring this site.
Nice assist in the defense of the Lion King.
I’m certain it will not forgotten by whom you’ve helped.
All the past Presidents are shitting themselves and if they aren’t they are fooling themselves. No immunity and you are defenseless against anything. Odumbo more than anybody knows this,
Let’s make sure that answer makes its way to Trump’s attorneys for the Supreme Court arguments.
Plausible immunity is a thing too, asked and answered, don’t provide knowledge or anything more they can twist and use against him.
SCOTUS knows, just by the nature of SCOTUS decisions, that they HAVE to give SOME thought to the future ramifications of any decision they hand down.
Obviously, if they ruled against PDJT in this case, they would be neutering all Presidents going forward, as NONE could act, knowing some Prosecutor somewhere might charge them, even after they left office.
If/when it gets to SCOTUS, if not before, it gets tossed.
I think that’s the whole point of the trump hate – they want to neuter the elected presidents.
Literally, that’s the reason for all this.
Not out of the realm of possibility.
“If the DC Appeals Court removes “absolute immunity” in order to prosecute President Donald J Trump, then the next administration can formally charge President Barack Obama with the specific and unlawful killing of an American citizen, with malice aforethought and specific intent to kill; ie homicide.”
And that would be the only thing stopping them with Trump leading Biden this much.
Logically, we know the answer to this but as we’ve seen time after time for at least the last decade, when they own the courts, they make different decisions based on who is before them and at this point, they have no qualms about throwing that in our face.
Same applies the other way, Courts can rule one way for Pres T and another for B, hopefully 2024 is the year it’s cool to NOT be corrupt
Sorry posted in the wrong thread.
.
Another retort to that Judges question would be…
Yes, Judge Florence Pan, the president is protected, no different than YOU are protected if you were to dismiss charges against a murderer YOU would not be charged as a co-conspirator to their homicide. The only course available is Impeachment your honor.
Great point
It was never a problem for Obamao… Boom.
Also, STATUTE OF LIMITATION or STATUTES OF LIMITATION, not limitations.
It’s limitation. Not limitations. Just like Daylight SAVING Time.
Incorrect.
It is Statute of Limitations.
It is a statute that provides limitations on various crimes and procedures (time limits for filing or responding, etc).
The limitations for the various items are generally covered under one statute.
Wrong. It is statute(s) of limitation.
Sergeants Major, not Sergeant Majors. Same thing.
Another example of the English language being ruined through improper use.
Run me through that second one about Sergeants Major.
1. Look it up online – a law (singular) (statute) prescribing a time limit for various proceedings.
2. A former judge below weighed in and validated that it is Statute of Limitations.
3. Barrons Law Dictionary (5th edition) – Statute of Limitations!
However, Statutes of Limitations would be correct if one was discussing the statutes of various jurisdictions and their respective limitations.
Sorry! 😢
BTW, I’m a vet and know exactly about Sergeant Major. It is a title and rank.
A better example to make your point would have been Attorneys General.
Retired Magistrate here: It is Statute of Limitations.
Nope.
Just because someone is a magistrate doesn’t make them infallible.
I remember very clearly my law classes from the early 90s and no one would be caught dead saying, “Statute of limitations.” Anyone who did that in front of a JD would get thrown out of class after being hit with an eraser at Mach 2.
And I say that with all due respect. Cheers.
The Magistrate’s ruling is affirmed on appeal: it is statute of limitations.
See Black’s Law Dictionary (West Pub. Co., 7th Ed. 1999), page 1422-23.
I posted this in the general thread earlier, but am reposting in this topic thread. A Trump lawyer gets into this topic about past presidents….
There is an interesting segment in the video at the bottom of this article. Trump Lawyer, Jesse Binnal, is interviewed and explains what happened in court and what presidential immunity is about.
Segment starts around the 23:19 mark (10 min segment):
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2024/01/gateway-beyond-headlines-01-10-24-liz-harrington/
Hah!
Past Precedents about past Presidents, can be confusing, lol.
LOL!
Did this ever go to court?
There were quite a few Americans whose killings Obama ordered. And he bragged about how good he was at killing people.
It would be good if there were a court precedent from Obama killing people.
Anwar Al-Alawqi was U.S. Citizen killed in drone strike Sep 30, 2011. Drone strike was ordered by Obama.
His 16 year old son, abdulrahman al-awlaki (also a U.S. Citizen) was killed TWO WEEKS later by a drone strike ordered by Obama.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/how-team-obama-justifies-the-killing-of-a-16-year-old-american/264028/
Glad I read the thread…great memory b4
I thought I remembered that it was separate drone strikes…was going to comment…
To include the Iraq war LIE!
We do see how it works…
Or would if there was any moral remnant of justice left.
But there isn’t.
The Lightbringer knows he’s safe.
Until the next world.
Whether or not he thinks there is one.
I prefer a term I saw here a few days ago:
BlightBringer.
Better…
I would be interested in knowing, but I bet Judge Pan is completely unaware that Obama ordered a kill on an American citizen.
I would imagine that she knows now.
If she does, she also knows she unwittingly opened a door that I’m sure sue wishes she hadn’t.
Why, I wonder did she even ask that question. It seemed bizarre to me.
She was paid to ask that question or 7 ways to Sunday made it happen. Those are my two guesses.
Uhhhhh … didn’t Obama already do that? With a drone. On foreign soil?
Prosecutions are for conservatives. All anyone that is not conservative has to do is say the magic words “national security” and it’s get out jail free.
As Zuckerberg says, the truth violates our community standards.
The Constitution states clearly that the path to control or oust an out of control President is impeachment. Period.
The worry here is that some wag in the Biden cabal might think this is a viable solution; to take out a political rival. Of course they have no idea of the rush for a reckoning that would take place in response.
In a Just World with a just government then Obama SHOULD have been and still could be impeached for acting as Judge and Jury on an American citizen. Innocent until proven guilty. No single American should have the unfettered power to legally kill or order a killing on another citizen.
Just to ‘pile on’, they NEVER justified the ‘hit’ by trying to say Alawi had literally commited any acts of terrorism, or even involved himself in the planning of terrorist acts…allegedly his threat to the U.S. that justified “taking him out” along with his son and probably other Yemeni citisens,…?
He made VIDEOS, allegedly RECRUITMENT videos for Al Queda…
Can you say “Free Speech”?
They came for the Mafia, violating their rights,..
I was not Mafia, so I said nothing…
They came for the drug dealers,..violating THEIR rights,…
I was not a drug dealer,..and so I said nothing.
They came for the (alleged) islamists, violating THEIR rights..
I was not an islamists, and so I saud nothing.
They came for the (J6) “Insurectionists” and I was not there on J6,…
And so I said nothing.
And then they came for ME,…I call out for help, and there was no one left..
Well done Dutch. Well done.
Is this a setup? If/since the answer is “yes,” then Biden could order Seal Team 6 to assassinate DJ Trump with immunity.
But the good news is that Don Jr. can file a civil suit against Biden … and end up owning his corvette!!
I amuse myself
Don Jr. would look awesome in that vehicle!
Funny.
He might even get those boxes of TS docs back.
Bonus!!!
Obeying an unlawful order is no excuse. Would they do it? Probably not. OTH, if that order was given, it is possible that the CIC could fall victim to “friendly fire.”
Ah, but IS it an “unlawful order”?
Suppose there was incontrovertible evidence the Presidents political opponent was a “Manchurian Candidate” working FOR an enemy power, that was going to steal the election and then destroy the country?
And, suppose the Current President knew that exposing this truth to the American People would tear the country apart?
And so, the PRESIDENT detirmined that, as a matter of National Security, Seal team 6 must assasinate this political rival BECAUSE they were an enemy agent, not because they were a political rival.
Would that be an “unlawful order”?
BTW, Seal team 6 COULD have taken OBL Captive, they were obviously ordered NOT to, although they WERE ordered to recover the body.
“Lawful orders”,…lol.
What about Obummer’s chef? Don’t they have satellite surveillance tracking all Presidents, former and current at all times?
No, “we” have better things to do with our sattelites than waste them following FORMER Presidents, lol.
WILL FILTHY LIBERALS Sacrifice The CHICAGO ALLAH?
The ends ALWAYS justify the means with FILTHY MARXISTS.
They always eat their own.
Livin the Dream….
They are about to be eaten by illegals invading like locusts.
Do not forget the Obama’s FAST and Furious gun-running scam
“next administration”
That’s some serious optimism.
Is it plausible that Obama did the al-Awlaki, thing with knowledge aforethought to establish a legal precedent for extra judicial removal of US citizens? Was the assassination necessary or was its primary usefulness the legal framework?
Legal framework, the getting away with it, the tingle up his leg of killing someone without having to get his hands dirty or look them in the eye?
I think it’s an all of the above answer.
Anwar is exactly who I thought of when the judge asked this sleazy hypothetical.
Oh SNAP!!!!
This is the most work Obama ever did…..
The 542 drone strikes that Obama authorized killed an estimated 3,797 people, including 324 civilians. As he reportedly told senior aides in 2011: “Turns out I’m really good at killing people. Didn’t know that was gonna be a strong suit of mine.”
https://www.cfr.org/blog/obamas-final-drone-strike-data
So another circular f![!^& squad is now complete.
Two of the judges were appointed by Obama. Surely he has them on speed dial to clue them in. President Trump actually is one up on Obama as he was impeached by House but not convicted in Senate for his non-crime which further substantiates his absolute immunity.
One could hear the bias and hatred in Obama appointed Pan’s voice wanting a yes or no answer. She was out for blood. Bye, Bye John Smith, don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.
Jack Smith, small but important detail. Facts matter.
The qualification Trump’s lawyer gave was very important. He said the president had to be impeached and convicted by the Senate or else there is immunity for something like assassinating a rival. That would also apply to Obama so he couldn’t prosecuted unless he was impeached and the Senate convicted him. From what I remember reading of the hearing, the Obama example did come up. It sounds like the DC court won’t find immunity, so hopefully the Supreme Court corrects it. This is like Peru or Venezuela when whoever used to be president gets prosecuted.
Excellent point Sundance! Why is it that Sundance can answer this hypothetical better than Trumps own lawyer? Where does Trump find these midwits!
Does anyone really think that a Republican appointed prosecutor would have the nerve to indict Chicago Jesus for murder and manslaughter? One of the many problems of our current predicament is that the sword does not cut both ways.
PDJT’s lawyers are actually doing quite well.
They KNOW its highly likely to a certainty these cases will be won in appeals, with the initial cases ruling against them.
You argue the case DIFFERENTLY, in that situation, and sometimes it can LOOK, to the unitiated like the lawyers aren’t doing a good job.
His lawyers did bring this to the fore. The judge didn’t want an answer to her hypothetical. She was trying to make new, counter constitutional law to injure Pres Trump.
“President Obama did exactly this.”
Yes he did. Problem is, President Trump is the sole individual who would possibly bring charges were he reelected.
No other Republican has the courage.
A problem for Barry, certainly.
On April 28, 2016, Pan was nominated by President Barack Obama to become a U.S. District Judge on the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, replacing Judge Reggie Walton. However, her nomination was not processed by the U.S. Senate, which was then under Republican control, and after President Donald Trump was elected, he nominated Dabney Freidrich to fill the vacancy.
On March 24, 2021, President Biden renominated Pan to the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, replacing Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson, who was being elevated to the D.C. Circuit. Pan was confirmed 68-30 on September 22, 2021 and has served on the court since.
Most notably, Pan has sentenced a number of defendants as part of the January 6 prosecutions. For example, she sentenced James Wayne Entrekin, who plead guilty of entering the Capitol without permission, to 45 days in jail, rejecting a prosecutorial request for 105 days in jail and a defense request for probation.
The Vetting Room
Touche’
How did this court even entertain the red herring of “absolute immunity” wrt to killing a US citizen.
see.,.this IS the problem I have with court judges. They entertain FOLLY. Effing stupid shit.
President Trump is not accussed of killing anyone..period.
the case before this court is very simple…and lets stop pretending it isn’t
did the president incite insurrection?
the answer is obviously no…no person has been charged WITH insurrection.
so that literally takes care of that legal issue..period..done…
next up.
can a President of the United States be charged with and prosecuted for alleged crimes AFTER leaving office.
this answer is also NO. but not because of even related to the stupid shit debate about killing anyone. it’s not even relevant to this case. period. No, the answer is clear because
a. No president HAS EVER BEEN CHARGED AFTER LEAVING OFFICE FOR ANY ALLEGED CRIME. Period..And there is a constitutional and legal reason why this HAS NEVER OCCURRED. Presidential immunity is firmly upheld as a very special, unique instance of immunity than from any other officer, employee or citizen. YES…THE PRESIDENT IS IN FACT ABOVE THE LAW. His official capacity as a duly elected President carries with it this unlimited protection from any prosecution WHILE IN PRIOR OFFICE HOLDING THAT POWER! Period…end of story. There is not controversy here. You can like or dislike this reality, but those are the facts and the truth. “wondering” if this also applies to some ridiculous UNRELATED premise theory about a president killing someone is goof ball bull shit and it’s obvious this argument is attempting to avoid the very narrow case that this court has a responsibilty to address: did the president fuel, organize, aid, abete, or steer in any way the criminal violations that occurred on j6 (noting: no one was killed and no one was murdered…not one. In fact the ONLY person who was killed was murdered by the capitol police #$%^head who in cold blood and without any warning and in total negligence to any standard of the ladder of rules of engagement did kill ashli babbet. This capitol police officer does not have ANY constitutional immunity from prosecution.
b. The president did not fail to act on that day. And EVEN IF HE DID, that would still not mean in any way that he provided comfort to insurrection or any other criminal act. he was literally NOT THERE. and futhermore, the law is very clear on this matter…The president of the united states has no constitutional authority to call to arms federal or national troops to avert a state matter of criminal activity. THAT IS THE DOMAIN EXCLUSIVELY TO THE STATE GOVERNOR, the capitol police and also by the speaker of the house. period. end of story. Posee comitatus. Learn it..understand it…study it. it’s spelled out in our constitution. it limits and forbids the excercise of the president to ORDER federal armed troops to conduct law enforcement against US citizens ON us soil. Don’t trust me…study it. Learn it.
if it isn’t obvious by now, the weasels who created this case are expecting THE PEOPLE to be stupid and misled. And this case depends on the corrupt intent of the court judges. I am under no delusion that these corruptors have every intention to charge, prosecute, trial and convict President Trump. I am prepared for that temporary setback.
What I am more prepared for is to turn this case back around on appeal.
and I am also prepared to do what should have been done long ago…and that is to take out rabid dogs who have become a national security threat to this country and to my interests and of those whom I love and care about with an affinity that cannot be measured.
send me, Lord. I will come.
God Bless America
I’m with you!
Nice summation, again!
Just as an addendum.
Insurrection is overthrowing the Government.
President Trump was, on J6 still the President.
HOW can he overthrow the Government HE is in charge of?
Its like the head of GM calling on GM workers, to go on strike!
I would have preferred that argument have been made. I think eventually it will. It’s central to the entire premise of all other arguments. Thank you again for bringing it.
we literally need a better bunch of criminals. these morons are an embarrassment to the long tradition of criminal thug. it may not happen tomorrow, but these people are going to get prizes.
God Bless America
Wow – Thank you for this very clear & concise explanation. I will be emailing this so others will understand it completely.
…”if it isn’t obvious by now, the weasels who created this case are expecting THE PEOPLE to be stupid and misled.” –
They try to baffle us with BS – thanks to people like you and of course Sundance, it ain’t happening!
She didn’t just entertain it. She interjected with it.
prexactly…a rabid mongrel. I entertain visions of…well you probably know what I am feeling right now.
God Bless America
Excellent writeup.
One slight addendum that I think matters. The entire Executive branch of government is literally the President. Is the DOJ part of the Executive branch? You bet. The President cannot prosecute himself. That role is exclusively reserved for Congress. The House impeaches, the Senate removes. And that is the end of the matter. No President has been prosecuted after leaving office because the only acts Presidents have committed that are questioned have all been official acts.
Article II, Section 1, “The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.” That is it right there. That is Presidential Immunity for all official acts, and as the Commander in Chief of the military, SEAL Team 6 falls under his command. The President is restrained from using the Federal military in the US as mentioned above, however this does not apply to using State militias while in Federal service (which requires permission of each State’s Governor) and recall that Federal troops were used to quell civil disturbances in the 1960s. Again, Congress would be the sole arbiter in either case through the impeachment process.
The SEAL Team musings of an Obama judge are irrelevant regarding the limits of Presidential immunity in this case and the attempt to broaden the question is poor jurisprudence, however deliberate and political. I suspect an Appeals Court will say so.
The only way that Obama can get away with killing an American on foreign soil is if he declared that American an “unlawful enemy combatant.”But that would require agreeing with Bush’s lawyer, John Yoo, on that designation, and there could be a case made that Americans don’t give up their Constitutional rights overseas.
I think the hypothetical posed was more along the lines of a President assassinating a political opponent. The military drone killing an Al Queda operative in Yemen seems distant from killing a democrat in Vermont.
Its a hypothetical asked, in an attempt to make a point.
Is there ANYTHING the President could do AS AN OFFICIAL ACT, that he could subsequently be arrested and charged for, without him being “covered” by immunity.
And the answer is NO, NOT any official act. In order to charge him in criminal Court, he first would need to be Impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate.
As it turns out, the 2nd Impeachment which WAS IIRC for J6, and for which the Senate did not vote to convict, reinforces the point perception-wise, if not legally.
No
In their feverish partisan rush to pervert justice, people like Judge Pan rarely consider the long term implications of their extra-judicial reasoning. Simply following the law, governed by wisdom and reason, would preserve respect for the tattered remnants of our once-great system of governance. But these low caliber partisans, in various positions of authority, are not wise people and their reason has been darkened.
The horrific irony is that if and when we achieve the society that is the natural outgrowth of their nihilism, the Beast system that their indoctrination mandates, those types will be among the first to fall. And there will be no one left to mourn them.
Does this also mean that Biden currently has absolute immunity in killing a USA citizen? A political opponent?
so…..then Biden could order Trump to be killed and have absolute immunity……..
when you disgard Natural Law for political law, you get all kinds of crazy inconsitencies and outcomes. it all devolves to might makes right.
Impeached and tried in the Senate
It would likely be Joes last mistake.
PDJT is the ONLY thing standing between US and THEM.
DO they truly grasp what that means, I wonder?
The Time when MAGA could be shut down, disbanded and dispirited, as a result of discrediting its leader, has long passed.
The movement has now reached the point it is self-sustaining, and any leader that comes after PDJT is only going to be,….fiercer.
yes, i have observed that the uniparty rePubes were formerly their protection. the window has shifted. now it is Trump, because if he doesn’t win more people will wake to the sham. They are in a lose-lose, but probably dont realize it.
Karma can be so wonderful sometimes.
. If a president doesn’t have immunity when do we start prosecuting Clinton and Reno for deaths of 76 Branch Davidians, including 25 children, two pregnant women?
We can have Paxton get on it as soon as the court rules no immunity.
‘…If the DC Appeals Court removes “absolute immunity” in order to prosecute President Donald J Trump, then the next administration can formally charge President Barack Obama…’
Should this be the case, then the ‘next administration’ HAS to be President Trump or this never happens
Ever
No SOL for murder.
As long as the court rules no immunity, ANY administration can try Obama.
And, this ruling will have implications on civil liability. So it won’t just be the admin taking the Blightbringer to court.
FYI — Abdulrahman al-Awlaki wasn’t killed alongside his father, he was killed in a separate drone strike two weeks later while eating at a restaurant. When questioned about it, Robert Gibbs (WH Press Sec) said he “should have had a more responsible father”.
Did Obama drone one or more US Citizens…?
I guess I should read more first….. dummy…..
Great point Sundance !!
I hope someone in Trump’s orbit reads this article!
I hope PT’s legal team will learn about this article.
The one fault in the logic presented here is that a D (like Obama) are never charged let alone be found guilty of anything.
Would that not give Biden a reason to do just that?
Biden is disposable. He has dementia. He will order the killing of “Hitler” because he has dementia. They’ll comply because he is the president…..
I don’t think the short answer is “yes”, or you’re getting into the Late Roman Period where emperors assassinated each other every half a year. Well… maybe we’re already there.
Joe does, and theres nothing left standing between THEM and US,..and may GOD have mercy on their souls, as they will get no mercy from us, as we arrange for their judgement meeting.